EPT/in :D
Paranoia Mafia
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ShiaoPi
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/in :D | ||
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ShiaoPi
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On November 27 2012 15:39 Xatalos wrote: Watch out or I'm going to frame you to be lynched again, haha  Oh that's fine with me, as long as I do not lose a solved game due to several persons named grush and Bill Murray, that game left scars to deep to ever heal again :O | ||
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ShiaoPi
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On November 28 2012 11:32 DarthPunk wrote: I would play. But I am scared of this many good players. /obs Get in here dammit, I need someone in my timezone to talk to | ||
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Obviously | ||
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None of the mentioned townreads of your are in danger of getting lynched (deadline isnt that soon anyway). Nor have you cut down the number of players to figure out scum. So why do it? Really see no reason to do that. I know you to be a better player than just mindlessly share stuff like that as your contribution. | ||
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On November 30 2012 23:20 Lazermonkey wrote: But you not liking it is not the same thing as it being untrue. While I don't agree with outing the reads either, I think Xata gave a legit explanation of why he did so. He could obviously be lying but he could be speaking the truth and thus I don't really see how we can read so much into it and I am treating it as a null tell for the time being. Then we can agree to disagree I guess. I like to keep poking him. | ||
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ShiaoPi
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I expect sth more thought out. There must have more than just BLs strategy behind it. I expect of xata to be smarter than whathe claims to be.[/QUOTE Lazer, why are you so intent on stopping me from questioning xata further? | ||
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On November 30 2012 23:16 ShiaoPi wrote: I expect sth more thought out. There must have more than just BLs strategy behind it. I expect of xata to be smarter than whathe claims to be. Lazer, why are you so intent on stopping me from questioning xata further? | ||
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ShiaoPi
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Since xata is gone now and nobody besides lazer seems to be here I am going to bed now... | ||
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I'm more interested in BH now. I know that his metareading is pretty good(see liquid city) but I dont agree at all with his read on DP, I also cant see how he can be that sure of it right now.... BH you here right now? What makes you so certain? Also did your opinion change on DP following his spat with lazer? | ||
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ShiaoPi
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So I was nullish on him and unsure at the time of those quotes. At the moment lazer is slightly leaning town to me. Especially the way he responded to DP feels townie (even if kind of stupid). @Zentor: mind commenting on other things beside DYH? I'll take a look at him now. | ||
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I dont like him calling out lazer for doing the same thing as he is. But lynching bugs off for that in d1? I would say that it is unwise. I have by no means a sure townread on him but I would prefer to see him in d2 as that is more indicative of his play. We can lynch him in d2 if he continues like this. | ||
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On December 02 2012 01:01 debears wrote: All he has to do is come up with a decent fucking case and I'll be off his ass. Not that hard I would welcome some better conttibution from him as well, but most of us (me included) havent done much yet, so I am not willing to damn him for sth I am no better in. If nothing changes in the next few minutes I will vote for BH and head to sleep...already past midnight and I need some sleep. | ||
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On December 02 2012 01:27 marvellosity wrote: is there something that makes you regard DP as townie, Shiao? Where did I say I regard him as townie? I mentioned his spat with lazer but for DP that could have been any alignment. | ||
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On to my opinInon on Dp, he is a nullread. Cannot make too much out of him yet. I suck at d1 anyway. | ||
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On December 02 2012 01:25 ShiaoPi wrote: So who do you want to lynch Xata? Which of the three is scummiest to you? Answer please I want to sleep soon :S Still ve where your vote is parked? Marv what do you make of dp? You want to lynch him? | ||
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ShiaoPi
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##Vote: Blazinghand I am unsure but seems to me the best bet for now. Will try to be around for deadline but no guarantees, its much more likely that I will miss it by far. | ||
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First things first DYH claim your shot right before deadline, anything else would be folly. On another note we have to WIFOM around marv now, whether he gets shot/rbed or whateverelse. I am of two minds pn hos claim but yeah we can only wait and see for that. I wanted to do some more stuff in this night but unfortunately time is short and so I will have to keep it simple. Tomorrow I'll be back at my computer with some time on my hands so I can elaborate further (strongly doubt that I will get shot) On my watchlist right now: -Marv depending on night actions -DYH see above These two are the obvious ones, then I still want to keep tabs on BH and Xata (whom I have kind of forgot earlier in d1) BH led a mislynch, while that happens to anyone of us, i still dislike the way je insisted on SP being scum, when he was willing to swap earlier tarfets, stubbornness in a read aint necessaeily scum, but still. In regards to xata there has been a lot about him alreasy by others I am not going to rehash that. But his last post was pure fluff so it kind of adds up. Moving on I would like to see more from sandroba, dandel has done jackshit before replacing out, so there is a lot of stuff that sandroba should be able to comment to. These are the ppl I am most interesred in right now. More will come tmr, sry its late. | ||
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Anyway, let me first write up what I wanted to yesterday but could not get to before defending myself from bugs. Catching up to the thread I am gonna scratch pretty much all of what I had yesterday. I am going to comment on some of the remaining players now, with a reread of the thread: BH: Fuck what I said, I am leaning town on him now. Zealos: I would like to get rid of him as he is just a useless lurking piece of space at the moment. His saving grace is firstly that there are better lynches today and secondly (and more importantly) he got voted by VE. While VE is scum and therefore his votes are much more likely to end up on townies (see later in the day with DP and DYH) I don't feel like just taking his filter as 100%-foolproof evidence, heck he softdefended me and I am fucking town. Xatalos: This is more or less where it gets interesting. Before the reread I had a scumread on him, this is largely due to the fact that he has an incredibly annoying (to me) way to express his thoughts, convoluted to no end, e.g.: + Show Spoiler + On December 02 2012 22:46 Xatalos wrote: I can somewhat relate to your reasons for voting DP... Although they're still narrow-minded reasons, they're not necessarily scummy reasons. Combined with my intuition telling me your late roleclaim wasn't any elaborate Mafia tactic (which it could possibly be, but I have problems believing it - Occam's razor points to the simpler explanation), I'm starting to lean slightly town on you. In addition, such heavy tunneling isn't really townish, but it's not an effective Mafia playstyle either. Mafia would rather leave their options open, not limit them willingly. What's a good point is that Mafia might have a roleblocker. If they roleblock you, we're back to square one and have to decide the truth of your roleclaim with what you've said, not with your power usage. In any case, you should claim your shot RIGHT before the deadline. Let's consider the options for Mafia if they don't have time to change their roleblock action based on your target: 1) They can roleblock you, preventing you from becoming a confirmed Vanilla Townie (after your shot has been used). But if you just shoot me or some other townie (and you're not a very threatening presence to Mafia in any case), it might be beneficial for Mafia to let the shot go through. They'd get rid of one townie and just lose one mislynch candidate. 2) They can skip using a roleblock or roleblock marvellosity instead (in case he didn't fakeclaim). This would make you a confirmed Vanilla Townie but potentially prevent marvellosity's night action and most of all likely kill 2 townies in a single night. If you claim your shot early, Mafia will have an easy time deciding their best course of action. If you do it at the deadline, Mafia will have to take a risk and decide their possible roleblock usage without information about your target. Although I guess it has to be me after all this tunneling, which kind of makes me hope you're fakeclaiming, but you never know. Reading the exchange between WBG and BH, I'm starting to lean on WBG being town and BH being Mafia. WBG's reasoning is coherent and townish, but BH looks like he's just dodging issues and ignoring facts while doing what he decided beforehand (pushing the lynch to DP, next up DYH). What's even weirder is the contradiction between his earlier and later playstyle: at first he swinged his vote around for the smallest reasons, but then he wouldn't budge from getting DP lynched no matter what. Where did this confidence suddenly come from, considering his earlier wishy-washiness? And even with his arguments being repeatedly refuted? I'm just getting more and more suspicious of BH the more I think about it. this entire post can be summed up into this: -I think you are town DYH, because of the reasons for tunneling you just shared and the late claim -Please claim your shot just before deadline to avoid too much chance for mafia to interfere, oh and wifom -I am getting a townread on WBG and BH leans scum to me or his last post: + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 23:59 Xatalos wrote: I guess that's a fair assumption, but not foolproof. For example, I bussed my scumbuddy hard in a previous game although I wasn't in any immediate danger - just to gain towncred and win the game with that. And VE didn't even BUS Zealos, he just throwed a vote at him and easily changed it away from him. I think that's very possibly just some distancing, not necessarily bussing or genuine lynch effort. Even so, I agree that VE's comment on ShiaoPi was much more suspicious than his vote for Zealos. VE seemed pretty reluctant to even talk about ShiaoPi, and he was especially uncomfortable with the thought of lynching ShiaoPi. The obvious explanation is that ShiaoPi is Mafia, although it's only a piece of circumstantial evidence. Still, combined with ShiaoPi's clear background role and lack of effort to achieve anything, he's definitely a good lynch candidate. It just hurts to look at it imo, the information within the post is so little in relation to the lengt Look through Xata's filter, it's full of elaborate stuff without a real conclusion/course of action. This is a clear scumtell in my eyes, no need for that much fluff if you are contributing. There are also a lot of "cases" which he never followed up entirely in a committing way. The problem I have with a potential scum-Xata is that he is making sense. Also he did not jump on the marv bandwagon d1, something I think scum would have loved to do, having a real chance to get a really good player mislynched d1. Conclusion on Xata, null leaning slightly in the red. Just because I mentioned DYH in my post before, he is confirmed town to me, I don't buy shenanigans with scum shooting themselves and stuff. Now on to the good stuff: Keirathi Obviously my changed read on BH is important for a red kei. but let's start from looking at ace: -He has been dickish, trolly and unhelpful, not exactly a scumtell but it adds to the entire picture. -What makes me wonder is especially the parts in his filter with "shiao/debears/DYH"-interaction and "shiao/VE/DP"-interaction. I do not remember having thoroughly interacted much with DYH, there were some questions from debears which I answered, also I did not interact with VE/DP in a remarkable kind of way. So I have no clue where he got this from, conclusions he does not read the thread thoroughly and makes shit up as he goes to appear contributing. Moving on to Kei now, While I initially agreed with a lot of his points against BH, I was also in the game from the beginning. Now with a clear reread I do not read BH as scummy anymore, from someone who replaces in I would expect him to have a clear mindset as well and I believe Keirathi to be a good enough player to be able to come to the same conclusion as I did. The entire amount of tunneling onto BH as an "easy" target seems to me like an attempt to just derail the entire thread into bascially the same discussion we had at the end of d1. Also the complete disregard for anything else, why? Cuz scum! ##vote: Keirathi Before I forget it, honorable mention to Lazermonkey, get out of your lurkhole and do something, you are pretty much up next right after Kei! | ||
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ShiaoPi
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Uh...I cannot help being mentioned by scum in softdefending manner? I don't even see how you can be willing to lynch me off for sth. like this. I admit that I was not the largest help d1, but I never am one of the most contributing persons d1..... Dunno where the rest of his "case" went, oh wait, there was none. This feels like you guys are just wanting to policylynch me for inactivity. | ||
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On December 04 2012 00:34 debears wrote: Overreacting a bit? There's plenty of time for you to scumhunt and prove your town if you are indeed town Well I just did, duh. I am just annoyed to catch up to stuff like this, getting voted for for no reason. | ||
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On December 04 2012 00:40 debears wrote: True dat. Let me clarify this with you You have a town read on BH you have a town read on zealos You have a scum read on xatalos you have a scum read on keirathi Also, why Keirathi over Xatalos? You have been suspicious of Xatalos, yet you choose a replacement player over someone who has been in the game? Granted, Keirathi is scummy, but I'm not comfortable lynching him right now over players who have been here the whole time and are worthless town on BH, Zealos is null, kind of need more activity from him to judge. Xata is null leaning scum Kei is scum. I am choosing Keirathi over Xatalos as I am more sure on my read on Kei. Regarding bugs, I would like to see some more analysis from him for the lynch we have to decide on. I have him as town-leaning, but I also did not focus on him when I was rereading. | ||
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Maybe I was exaggerating, but your posts have a ton of fluff inside. I said they are logically coherent and could make sense from a town point of view. | ||
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Since you seem to be convinced that I am scum, care sharing the non-tl:dr-reasons for that? @Lazer: you fucking suck, I don't even want to start where your "case" is bad. You still have not read what I wrote regarding Xatalos (or you are just too thick to read properly), Regarding BH, I tried to get more out of him during the time I was online, look here: On December 01 2012 23:48 ShiaoPi wrote: -snip- I'm more interested in BH now. I know that his metareading is pretty good(see liquid city) but I dont agree at all with his read on DP, I also cant see how he can be that sure of it right now.... BH you here right now? What makes you so certain? Also did your opinion change on DP following his spat with lazer? Well sucks to be in me in my timezone, but there is only so much you can do if nobody is around for the time you are. If you think my reasons to vote Keirathi are OMGUS you really need to properly reread what the term omgus means...... Now what about you share some of your reads in thread? Do you got any other reads besides me? What is your opinion on Keirathi or Bugs? @Kei: I am seemingly going along with the flow since nobody is online/willing to discuss stuff when I am in the thread.... It is hard to be around for discussion when nobody else is. @debears: Your case ain't bad, the thing is I read it and then I think bugs is scum, I go read the responses you got with it and I think, well actually bugs is not that scummy. The main thing which annoys me with bugs is that he is not showing "evidence", he did not when he was pushing marv now he is doing it again with me. | ||
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On December 04 2012 09:53 Keirathi wrote: -snip- Why are you leaning town on him now? What in your read through changed your mind? Why do you think I should have come to the same conclusion? I am leaning town on him now, because of several things: -letting DYH survive -I was able to see where he was coming from, while reading the filter again, in regards to the way he played it out. -BH's post n1/d2 have all been much more helpful than d1 and also more helpful than you are. On December 04 2012 18:53 Lazermonkey wrote: I have read several times what you wrote about Xata, unless I'm missing something in which case you should feel free to show that. I still think it's scum indicative. I don't have to convince on the fact that I think you are you are scum tho so I will leave it at that. Still think your reasons for pushing BH are weak. Okay please tell me why you are going after Keir then. Because when I read your post where you voted Keir, your reasons were IMO some WFIOM that wasn't alignment indicative followed up with you saying his reasons to vote BH was weak. Keir I haven't looked too much into. But based on the fact that no scum with their right in mind would ever push BH at this point I'm leaning town on him. Regarding WBG, I really liked the case of debeas. And I quite dislike WBG response to everyone, which was basically everyone who agree with this are retards. I don't have anything to add to the case on him but he is a strong scum read atm and I'm 100% willing to vote him atm. You are totally in gaga-land right? Judging from your post it seems as nothing I say will make you stop this stupid tunnel. Not even looking into Keir at this point is just utterly incomprehensible to me. Take a look at his filter and at Ace's, now first off Ace, he has been entirely unhelpful for d1, just sniping in comments without much reasoning (oh and he was a dick anyway), now look at Keirathis entrance, it totally derails the thread into the discussion at the end of d1 with his insane tunnel on BH, also his unwillingness to do anything besides tunneling is irking me out, but since you are doing the same with me, I guess that did not matter much to you. screw you, done talking with you. Now moving on: I do not like the way bugs reacted to the pressure at all, he is doing nothing to confront the case, just repeatedly saying that it is bad, while being totally unhelpful on why exactly I should be lynched. I mean even Kei has started to slowly look somewhere else than BH and is by now more useful than bugs.... Also this: + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 11:20 Blazinghand wrote: Ok, WBG I'm putting as a scumread. His efforts in the thread seem largely based on smacking down attempts at scumhunting and having a good thread atmosphere. WBG doesn't just slap people around, he likes to ask hard questions, and also questions that draw out people's reads and force them to contribute or reveal their scummy nature. WBG is not by any means a bad player. I don't think that squares with his interactions like this: This isn't helping the town atmosphere, this is smacking down a guy trying to help. It's weird he thinks of me as scum but wants to lynch ShiaoPi, also. WBG dodges DYH's question and explains himself, but he doesn't press debears, asking him for his own reads, and he doesn't call people out asking for their top scumreads and asking why. WBG makes posts like this: When he could be making more posts like this: which he notably hasn't done except in like his first post of the game and that quoted post. WBG is actively inhibiting the thread, attempts to scumhunt, and people trying to ask questions, state theories, and generally interact smoothly as town. is some damn fine analysis (and to Kei it is also one of the reasons why BH is town to me.), austin also mentioned movie mini mafia, which I think was a pretty good educated guess. Add that to the fact that I am still getting lynched as of now and my Kei votes does not seem to get traction, I am switching now. ##unvote: Keirathi ##vote: Wherebugsgo | ||
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On December 04 2012 20:21 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm not confronting the case because there isn't one. There isn't anything to refute beyond what I've already done. It's ludicrous that anyone expects me to continue to debate people who are so biased they cannot see why they are wrong. lol | ||
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I already acknowledged that you have done more now besides the point that the segment you quote there was largely explaining to Lazer why I think you to be scummy. And to that bolded part, I thought I might throw you an example on how his posts have been good/constructive, not necessarily as main point on why I am town on him. You want me to find and post the ones during d1/n1 for you? lol Yes, I am sheeping right now, nobody seems to be still willing to lynch you, cases written by debears and BH are good as I already said in regards to debears, couple that with bugs reaction to increasing pressure/vote counts and the fact that I do not want to die, since I am fucking town, I am voting bugs. got a problem with that? | ||
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On December 04 2012 22:29 Keirathi wrote: So which is it? Am I only tunneling BH, or am I doing more? I can't be both. (Hint: I've got a longer filter than every single person still alive in this game except for BH. Is it all just drivel, or what?) Also, about finding the posts: I thought you said BH was useless day 1, and only got better n1/d2? Stop twisting my words, I said you have now been starting to look at other people, which is one of the reasons I am more willing to off bugs now. You cannot deny the fact that for a good part of d2 you have been in tunnelvisionland. I am just stating the chronology of your play. Yes, BH's usefulness was limited in d1 but still go reread his filter with the possibility in mind that he is town. But I would assume you arrived at at least a null read on BH by now, which is good for your own sanity methinks. | ||
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On December 04 2012 22:51 Xatalos wrote: Heh. Well, I really hope so. I've also played with ShiaoPi before and I must say he was a lot more active and decisive back then. He even defended a (Mafia) player to the very end against every other player and was pretty clear on his reads. Now it feels like he's just giving vague reads and jumping on any realistic bandwagon. That game was a long time ago and I was also in a different timezone, much more fitting for playing with EU/NA. Just saying you should not take that game as a basis for meta, go for more recent games such as Liquid City or LVI and LVII | ||
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Sandroba, mind commentating on the other things that happened in thread? Anything on bugs besides finding the case by debears amusing? | ||
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On December 04 2012 23:51 sandroba wrote: @shiaopi I'm voting for you because i think you are scum. Doesn't matter if you say "but, but, but, i didn't do anything, it's ve's fault" or w/e. To find scum you need to define a pattern in which you believe they will behave given a specific situation. Unfortunatelly for you, you fit the pattern I arbitrarily defined that scum would behave day 1 in a 2 townie wagon and then day 2 after being acused. Ve's comment is just icing on the cake and serves to strenghen my belief and make everything fit toghether even more nicely. Fucking ridiculous is all I can say to that, you do not even define what that "pattern" of yours is. So anyone else that fits that pattern? | ||
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What made that 180°-turn from this: On another topic, I like your analysis of Ace/Keirathi. I haven't quite had him as a scumread at any point, but not as a townread either. Ace's weird "X/Y/Z interaction" posts and Keirathi's pure focus on BH aren't looking good. It's hard to judge a replacement player, but nothing in either of their filters screams "town!", and that's suspicious in itself. to Really... "He's tunneling BH. Why? Cuz scum." That's basically what his case is there. He doesn't even sound convinced himself! I get the feeling he's just throwing his vote at someone to appear to be scumhunting. I can't even comprehend this at all. also your last thing about emotions and stuff is utter trash, I am reacting the way I am since you guys are fucking retarded to lynch me over bugs..... | ||
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which leaves me with ##vote: sandroba Okay lets condense my thoughts a bit. BH is town to me, that makes Zentor also town as proxy, as I believe the PM BH posted to be correct (see wording and confirming them as town to each other). Austin's claim timing and stuff may be off but what the hell, why do you lynch the claimamt with no counterclaims? Seriously just compare the filters from austin and sandroba and tell me with a straight face that austin is scum. He is way too active and contributing in comparision to sandroba who just seems to be cruising by and dropping a remark now and then when it befits him. In this direct scenario of austin vs. sandroba the choice should be easy and clear. lynch sandroba...... Now onto the rest of the players. debears is town in my eyes, which leaves me with those players left from whom I am expecting to be scum. Xatalos, sandroba, Keirathi and Lazer. I am calling the scumteam xata,sandroba,Lazer. I know we would have 4 scum in a 15person game, but that would be the only way I can see us having this many power roles.... Outlined my thoughts on sandroba above already so lets head over to Xata: For the love of god, I cannot know how he arrives and a 100%-townread on sandroba, yes meta-wise he is doing more than usual, but give what is in this thread a closer look, how much of an impact did he really have? Not much at all, he is blending in, throwing us a bone when he likes to, but prefers to keep much to himself or not be here at all. At best I would have put sandroba at a townish-leaning null, with austins claim, easy he is scum. Also look at what we have already for this day, sandroba is just being a dick while austin is constantly arguing to lynch sandroba, being present, answering questions and scumhunting further. If sandroba flips red, I am pretty sure Xata will do the same. now Lazer has been absolutely worthless and nonimpactful this game, that coupled with the fact that bugs flipped town and Keirathi did claim makes me choose Lazer over keirathi as last scum. Also in direct comparison of the two, Keirathi is most surely the more productive and decisive one (even if wrong with this tunnel on BH and later his vote on me). Remember the last time Lazer did anything? Oh right yeah, he just kept tunneling me to no avail, easiest thing to fake as contribution if scum. I know it is a lot of associative tells in this, but it all adds up. so yeah kill off sandroba then xata and lazer and we won. | ||
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I want you to compare sandroba and austins play in regars of usefulness, attentiveness and townieness. I have played with austin a couple of times and I am pretty sure that we got the townie obe here. Sandrona feels to me like DP in LVII and therefore in this 1 for 1 i am lynching snadroba | ||
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Sandroba/Dandel Ion: I am starting this with another look at Dandel Ion, remember the one sandroba replaced? No, well that's the thing, he never took any position and was replaced out before he voted, maybe it is due to time constraints, but keep it in the back of your mind that Dandel Ion was more than happy to do nothing d1. Now onto the n1 and beyond when sand takes over n1: Sandroba is active a lot and does some prodding around the relevant issues in thread at that time, So far he already looks miles better than dandel ever did. not much to take notice of here. At the end of the night he gives out a couple of reads: On December 03 2012 07:40 sandroba wrote: I have to go out quickly so I'ma post my thoughts early: Sandroba's Town List for dummies (TM): WBG - marvelosity = both too emo ragers for it to be fake. I can't see the genuine asshole behavior being faked here and there is no scum motivation for it. I would seriously like to lynch marv for being an assface jerk, but unfortunately I can't convince myself he is scum. Xatalos - LOL this guy is so townie I don't understand how you baddies manage to bandwagon him day 1. 'Nuff said. DYH - I really thought this guy was scum for his retard case on xatalos before I read the last 30 pages. However that last minute claim looks really good so I'm putting him as town. Hopefully he can get confirmed by shooting into scummers tonight. Assuming scum have 1 rb (can't really imagine them having 2) either him or marv should get their actions through. Scummers : Zealos, BlazingHand are scum. I don't think I need to explain why for BH. Read Zealos oportunistic jump on xata wagon. That post has scum written all over it. People that I'm unsure but leaning scum: VE - who you might ask? Yes this dude is playing in this game. I bet you didn't know either. Kei/Ace - Meh ace is a hard one for me to figure out. I thought he was scum when I was obsing because of his "Oh this is interesting" comment, but I'm liking kei a bit more. This BH case seems very convinient though. First thing in the morning, he votes for me, "convinced" by bugs trash "case". On December 03 2012 21:38 sandroba wrote: Hmm Bugs does have a point. Also if we assume BH is town ShiaoPi does fit the same theme as VE yesterday. A totally unimpactful player that just stood by the sidelines, because their team was never in danger. I'm willing to roll with that because I'm getting cold feet about BH flipping scum (VE mentioning he is okay with lynching him/zealos should at least make us consider looking in another direction) and Shiao isn't doing shit so it's less risk involved. ##Vote: ShiaoPi Look at this closely! First he agrees with bugs nitpicking from the filter of VE, where I get mentioned, then he says he "assumes" BH as town in this scenario, when he was his biggest scumread earlier. As main thing justifiying this change of opinion is VE's filter yet again, but this time he is suddenly wary of the things inside VE's filter. I do get softdefended by VE but VE being "ok" with lynching BH is basically the same thing if you take it at facevalue. Now the intersting thing is that he is willing to lynch a less-risky target instead of his earlier top-scumread.... For most of the day he is doing nothing, except some more double-standards regarding VE's filter: On December 04 2012 02:57 sandroba wrote: It is indeed possible that VE threw zealos name out there and said he would agree to bus him next day out of the blue. It's just not likely. It is basically WIFOM but here WIFOM is not enough to convince him to make a go on Zealos, while in my case it was enough. Why? Then he cruises by until the bugs train gains momentum. He posts this: + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 23:08 sandroba wrote: LISTEN PEOPLE! I've reread WBG's filter a couple times by now. Consider please that yesterday lynch was between 2 townies and scum shot marvelosity. WBG's behavior makes no sense as mafia. Even if you can twist it somehow like you guys have been trying to do, the tone and emotional content of his posts are very genuine. I've played with mafia bugs before, and while he is hard to read, he is either non confrontational or trollish, he doesn't pick fights with people for absolutely no gain like he has been doing this game. Now let's look at ShiaoPi. This dude is desperetely trying to survive. Compare his posts d1, when he wasn't in any danger, to his posts today. He is trying really hard to justify any bandwagons he can hop on to save his own ass. Also look at how this retard wagon on bugs gained traction out of the blue. Even more reason to suspect we were right about ShiaoPi. Use your heads please. He is defending his hardtownread, but what is the main argument tone/emotional content are genuine? seriously? He also engages with debears case: + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 23:47 sandroba wrote: Adressing points on debears case: 1) WBG defended DP, but didn't care DYH was lynched. I would have mislynched DYH 100% D1 if not for his vigi claim. As I've stated before I thought his case on xatalos was utter bullshit and was very convinced of this guy being scum before replacing in. It doesn't surprise me that WBG didn't care if DYH got lynched instead of DP, which he had a town read on. Now as to why he didn't push DYH instead of going for marv I don't know, but I have to admit that marv's claim was pretty sketchy and I had to think real hard before determining he was likely town. "I am DT" in the middle of D1 with slight pressure on him, followed by "I might not be sane" after people start unvoting him looks suspicious as fuck, specially when you are biased because the dude is being a dick in the thread. For mafia it would make way more sense and be way easier to simply ignore marv and try to get into one of the main alternate wagons. Since you say WBG had no qualms lynching DYH why would he not as mafia simply jump on his wagon instead of trying to get marv lynched. Surely you can imagine the backlash he would suffer once marv flipped DT. 2)Vote on marv I adressed this on the block above. 3)Bunch of random facts stating facts and saying that they are scummy does not make it so. 'nuff said 4)bunch of random facts see above 5) Meta comparison to mad men I thought he was mafia on mad men. I then learned he wasn't. Your comparison is good for proving he is likely town this game though. You see, wbg and erandor had a much closer relationship than you-him. WBG expected erandor to identify he is town and got pissed off and raged in the thread. Simillar to how he expects better of marv and raged in the thread/assumed he was scum for playing like shit D1. The fact that he didn't adress your points can be explained by how he doesn't know your play/doesn't expect much from you and sees no needs to adress a case that has no traction. I doesn't mean he is auto mafia for ignoring you, sorry. 6) claims meta is the same even if you say it isn't yes. so? Except of the first paragraph he is actually not answering the case at all, he is just talking it down, trying to shut it down with not much real arguments. It would basically be okayish to do that, but in regards of bugs flip and austins check I think he was just trying to get some cred for defending bugs. Now in further pushing me: On December 04 2012 23:51 sandroba wrote: @shiaopi I'm voting for you because i think you are scum. Doesn't matter if you say "but, but, but, i didn't do anything, it's ve's fault" or w/e. To find scum you need to define a pattern in which you believe they will behave given a specific situation. Unfortunatelly for you, you fit the pattern I arbitrarily defined that scum would behave day 1 in a 2 townie wagon and then day 2 after being acused. Ve's comment is just icing on the cake and serves to strenghen my belief and make everything fit toghether even more nicely. So I am scum, because he decided so, nice stuff, nice stuff. Fast forward to n2: On December 05 2012 22:19 sandroba wrote: Xatalos is most likely not scum. The random Shiaopi isn't scum makes no sense. If you look carefully of how the day went the most likely scenario is that he is indeed scum, given the counter wagons and the hopping out of his wagon as soon as it became clear that there was a possibility of him not being lynched. I don't agree that debears looks townie. I would put him toghether with lazer and austin as the possible remaining scum (besisdes shiaopi). These mason claims I'm going to look into some more. 4 masons does seem like a lot, but I never before have seen scum claiming it. He is now stating the scumteam as me and some out of lazer/austin/debears. Little to no reasoning at all (besides some stupid stuff about me), looking in his filter we have exactly this mentioning of Lazer, while I can agree with that read since he is fucking useless in gaga-tunneling it is interesting to see debears and austin on that list as well. Sure it can be kind of through negative deduction with him having town reads on Xata and all the masons, but besides this post there is little to no interaction between him and these two. How did he arrive on these reads and why? Now in d3, he just votes austin, not a big deal as scum or town would do that in face of a redcheck, but wtf starting speculation on a possible traitor role? Sure it is a closed setup and the game is called paranoia, but why bring it up in the first place? Occams Razor says he is either a watcher with a red check or a stupid scum for doing a fakeclaim to trade 1for1. I am inclined to believe it is a watcher. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Now on to my read on austin: He starts to scumhunt early into d1: + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote: Your votes, in particular, aren't very important. Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective. Then you quickly drop a new vote on DoYouHas. Because...you don't think that you would sheep Ace because he's Ace. DoYouHas does NOT want people sheeping Ace based on reputation. You want the same, but vote him because he said that? What exactly is your reasoning for voting DoYouHas? + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 11:22 austinmcc wrote: He's not asking to be ignored. This is the chain in which Dandel Ion speaks: He says he's a noob. Discrediting was DoYouHas's word I believe, but I'd argue that (1) There can be benefits to scum in lurking (2) What Dandel Ion did (making a post calling himself a noob) =/= lurking To some extent, calling yourself a noob implies that you're going to sit back and let other people do the heavy lifting. But I don't really attribute any kind of purpose to Dandel Ion's post like that, and I don't think it makes sense for scum to point out newness, because iirc every newbie guide says apologies/hiding behind newness = scum. tl;dr I think there's a difference between lurking/being passive/playing to be ignored and Dandel Ion's post. Just 2 of many examples of him prodding/analyzing all day long. He is also sharing reads repeatedly e.g.: + Show Spoiler + On December 02 2012 06:32 austinmcc wrote: I think Zealos is my top scumread. ##vote: Zealos Beyond that, I'm worried about...hmmmm. Both you and DP concern me, I don't think both of you are scum, but I can't figure out which is which. Right now, I'm inclined to believe you're scummier between the two. DP had some good points on you, and I was going back and forth with you yesterday because I haven't played with you (I don't think), so I wanted to try and get a better sense of where you were. I came away feeling alright from that exchange, but reading over how some other people viewed it, I think a lot of my good feelings came from the fact that you actually interacted and kept things moving somewhat, and I wasn't paying enough attention to your actual comments on folks. However, you're not my #2 scumread. That's actually ShiaoPi right now. I don't like typing that out, it seems like someone else should be there, but it's him. I don't care about reading BH right now, because I think he's useful for town regardless of his alignment. I'm not bothering to really try and solidify reads on some people that aren't relevant to the D1 lynch - Ace, Zentor, DYH. Nobody in the remaining players sticks out to me like Zealos, ShiaoPi, and you do. Read those posts I quoted, I would assume it gets rather obvious that his d1-play was incredibly pro-town. Now the main problem of you seems to be that he did not react at all to the redcheck he got. Now without knowing the fact that he has a redcheck, go through his day2 posts, they are more of the same, contstructive posts, pushing discussion, asking questions, sharing reads, in short townplay. Now lets take a look at his claim: + Show Spoiler + On December 06 2012 08:00 austinmcc wrote: Assorted stuff. I don't think I will die tonight, but there's a small chance, and may as well get this into the open. I am a watcher. N1 I watched marvellosity. Sandroba, and only Sandroba, visited him. Therefore, Sandroba killed marvellosity. Therefore, Sandroba. If you look at my D2, I ask Sandroba a couple questions, some concerning his reads on ShiaoPi and WBG, especially his defense of WBG. This is one reason I ended up locked in on WBG and not wanting to lynch ShiaoPi, and one reason I've been weird about ShiaoPi. Sandroba dropped a vote and ShiaoPi early and was gone for much of the rest of the day, and defended WBG in this odd manner. In my mind, knowing that Sandroba was scum, it made the choice between the two easy - lynch WBG. I didn't claim because I actually thought WBG was scum, that there was no need to claim to ensure a scum lynch. Now, we've got a bit of uncertainty, so I can do so. We can lynch Sandroba to partially-confirm me if you guys would like, you can lynch me to confirm (not recommended). Tonight I am watching keirathi or BH. Still flipping back and forth between the two (5 minutes until end). Scum, non-sandroba scum, pretty please shoot the guy I'm watching. Right now I'm worried about the power roles in town. Confirmed cop, confirmed 1 mason pair of at least one townie, I'm confirmed watcher to me. That leaves a vigi...maybe? And maybe other masons. For a game in which scum had one KP N1 allegedly. Not buying it. Either DYH is scum or SK or scum has large numbers low KP, something. Otherwise, I've kind of been a bum as I am wont to be when blue, relying on role too much to play the game and not analysis, and also trying to wrap my head around CT mafia. Now that this is in the open, I can go back to playing normally. Slash what an awful end of night/claim post. Why claim at night if you are scum? YOu could easily just do so at day, since you will not get shot anyway. straightforwardclaim in which he also shares some of his reasons for claiming now, and why he was not on the fence against sandroba. I can understand him and therefore I chose to believe his claim. Now look further into the day, even when pressured from so many sides he continues to scumhunt: + Show Spoiler + On December 06 2012 08:43 austinmcc wrote: Although you being scum makes the interactions between you/ShiaoPi and sandroba/ShiaoPi all the weirder. Are you BOTH bussing him? I guess then you bus him, use that post to say it implicates me, then get me lynched while trying to get a little cred for lynching ShiaoPi? Curious. All I know for sure right now, is that Sandroba is scum. If you think I'm so scummy, why is Sandroba townie? I notice in that post you say "you're leaning town" on Sandroba, but you don't give any further reasoning. See posts like these: D1 - Xatalos thinks Dandel Ion is scummy 3 posts, VE and Dandel Ion so scummy. Let's lynch em. Let's lynch em. N1/D2 - Dandel Ion now Sandroba, Sandroba suddenly townie for no real reason Would you care to explain why Sandroba is townie? Would you care to explain why DI was one of your top scum suspects D1, but D2 it's "Dandel didn't interact with pretty much anyone and Sandroba has been helpful with his posts" so they get a pass? It's curious to me that one of your top 3 scumreads became a guy you think is townie but you never actually said why. and also this: + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 05:15 austinmcc wrote: Lazer, if you're still around, let's have a chat. I wanted to look you over and was, but now you're here. Hooray! You, along with all other not-mes, find my actions ridiculous and don't believe my claim. Okay. So then, about my play: (1) You think my play is less optimal as town than as scum. Go into that, why? You think I didn't play out D2 properly if I had a red check. But that applies equally to not playing out my D2 properly if I was going to do this as scum. Especially given that I can easily make up other things as scum. Why is one less optimal than the other? (2) Have you looked at the past games I listed? Do they matter to you? Should they? As to you, I see a mix of posts in your filter. Mostly short ones. Some longer ones when you respond, make a case on ShiaoPi, actually get involved. But apart from throwing in some general musings on WBG/ShiaoPi and masons, and your case on ShiaoPi, I don't get the feeling there's much there. DYH was worried about you yesterday, and now he's a bit deceased. So, some questions. At the end of each night, you've given two massive posts of reads. Why? Why not give them throughout the night? Why are most of your reads only ever popping up this late? Moreover, your reads on Sandroba haven't exactly been townie... You don't see a town motivation for a post Sandroba made. That's basically your only comment on Sandroba. Did you ever go look at Sandroba? If not...why not? Especially given he's a major player in today's lynch, why haven't you looked at him? THough to most of you this post of him sums it up pretty much I guess: On December 06 2012 08:46 austinmcc wrote: Breadcrumbs can be faked np. Same as with a breadcrumb, if you believe my claim, you may find that it explains some of my ShiaoPi v. WBG actions, and explains me trying to milk info from Sandroba. If you don't, you'll think I'm making it up, whether breadcrumb or explanation. The "anything" that I can PROVE my role with would be nothing, unless we have a rolecop. However, Sandro will flip red whenever you lynch him. And I'll flip watcher if I die. I believe him, you don't, I have a scumread on sandroba you dont. Also please keep in mind he was the only one who asked for mason logs. Those logs have basically confirmed BH/Zentor as town, there is no fucking way that those were faked. What would be to gain for austin to keep asking for the logs at end of the n2 and now during d3. Don't tell me it's this, because he obviously was not serious: On December 07 2012 09:38 austinmcc wrote: Grrrrrr, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO NOT HAVE LOGS AND THEN WE CAN ALL YELL "GOTCHA!" There is so much more town-motivated play behind austins post than behind sandroba. Thing is you are all blinded by the fact that he did not push a redcheck he had. Everything else is unimportant to you. So following your logic there is no way for me to convince you even with this wall of text. But please please consider what I wrote here. Austin is our watcher and it is incredibly silly to lynch him now.... | ||
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Looks like I missed some stuff, BH, you still on a fit or willing to read what I just posted? | ||
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On December 07 2012 22:04 Xatalos wrote: I agree that austinmcc's play was proactive and overall townish during Day 1. That's why I put him as a townread then. The point where I started getting suspicious was him squirming about you (especially since you're starting to feel like a confirmed scum at this point). Then his claim... He didn't breadcrumb his redcheck, he didn't act upon it in the slightest... It's just too much to believe it's real. It's a point in his favor that he asked for masonlogs, but it's something easy to do as either alignment, and doesn't really tell much (they would have probably provided them sooner or later in any case). I'm not really convinced of that scumread you have on Sandroba. You start by saying that he's "looking much better than Dandel" (who was somewhat of a null read). So you had a townread on him before the events of Day 2? But you don't really point out anything scummy in his play during Day 2 - okay, maybe his inactivity, laziness to reason and opinion changes without real explanation, but those are just lazy/anti-town/null traits, not inherently SCUMMY traits. If you compare to MrZentor, MrZentor has been WAY more fickle and lazy than Sandroba ever was. Yet he's very evidently town. There's just no Mafia agenda to be seen behind Sandroba, although I agree that his play as town isn't optimal. I am asking you to look at the players directly disregard the claim issue for a sec and tell me who is scummier. Surely not austin | ||
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On December 08 2012 02:23 austinmcc wrote: So I was playing townish on D1. I'm playing townish today. But you disagree with what I did D2. That's fine. But if I've mainly been playing townish, and Sandroba doesn't seem to be playing townish (and bee tee dubs, is supposedly lazy as scum), then I'm not entirely clear why the vote's on me. If we kill sandroba today, he'll flip red. You guys will almost certainly see me flip tonight, because sandroba would be gone and scum would be taking a risk trying to kill someone without getting watched. They could try and be tricksy with targeting, but even that confirms me somewhat - a less-than-optimal NK shows that they're playing around a watch. You may not believe I have a redcheck, fine. But that entirely overpowers the fact that I was playing townie on D1, townie today, that Sandroba isn't raelly playing townie? When I've got a history of being somewhat retarded with my roles (although less so than this I guess) and Sandroba has a history of being lazy scum? Thats ehst I have been trying to say all day, they dont lisren... Also lazer, you shoild learn to read | ||
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On December 08 2012 02:09 debears wrote: Wait what? What's your read on shiaopi? scum or town? I am also really interested in this | ||
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Lazer needs to get lynched now | ||
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GGGGG!!!!! | ||
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On December 09 2012 00:14 MrZentor wrote: lol Indeed! | ||
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We had 0 powerroles  Still no excuse for the lacklusyer play but duh! | ||
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