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On December 06 2012 10:52 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:46 Xatalos wrote:On December 06 2012 10:31 austinmcc wrote:
I don't want to quote the giant post there, but I think you're making things up. One of the two things Sandroba "tried to figure out" was Marv's sanity, something that scum would want to know. If he's not sane, he's not necessarily a N1 kill.
The "pressure" you quote is 3 small questions to people. Do you find that he followed up on his questions? Do his reads look like he actually cared about his questions and the way that other players answered? If "he asked these three questions" is something you find townie...there's a problem.
In fact, you'll notice that you said Sandroba felt "townish" after REPLACING ONE OF YOUR TOP 3 SCUMREADS at 19:54 on December 3. Out of the posts you listed of Sandroba's, the following were prior to that:
His asking about marv's sanity
His 3 dinky questions
His reads at the end of the night, which are half "it's so obvious I don't need to explain it"
That's what you had to work with when you first said Sandroba seemed townie. Sandroba, the guy who replaced one of your top 3 scumreads from D1.
Dandel Ion wasn't a strong scumread for me to at any point, maybe slightly leaning scum. He was just someone I wasn't feeling comfortable about since he didn't really seem to care. But Sandroba was the opposite, instantly asking relevant questions and sharing his opinions about any topic. Granted, I'd like to see some more evidence for his opinions from now on, but the point is that he clearly cares about what's happening in the thread and tries to actively direct the flow of the thread. IMO his posting style is a bit like MrZentor's, except more townish (with more reasoning and less sheeping). If you find Sandroba scummy, you should find MrZentor scummy as well (granted, he's clearly a Mason, but I mean on principle). If Dandel Ion wasn't a strong scumread for you, then who WERE your strong scumreads D1? 3 different opportunities you grouped together VE/DYH/Dandel Ion. VE was scummiest to you, you did say that. And I'm not whether I believe you'd have put 2 scumbuddies in a list of three. If Dandel Ion wasn't a strong scumread, was DYH? If neither of those were strong scumreads, you just had a strong scumread on VE and nobody else?
I didn't really have any strong scumreads during Day 1. I had some slight townreads (DarthPunk, austinmcc, debears) and some slight scumreads (DYH, VE, Dandel). It's all evident from my filter. I was willing to lynch one of those three, and since DYH was basically the only realistic option, I voted for him in the end. I'd say that I was actually suspicious of VE and DYH but only uncomfortable about Dandel, making him not the ideal lynch for me. Luckily we didn't lynch him and he was replaced by a much more useful player. It's useless to get stuck on something like how Dandel/Sandroba became scum->town in my mind, since it should be pretty obvious just looking at the differences in their posting. Also keep in mind that my original scumread on Dandel was weak and it didn't require much to change it. But DYH only became town in my mind with his Vigi claim (really unlikely to be a fakeclaim) and VE actually was Mafia. So that's that.
On December 06 2012 15:15 sandroba wrote:
Austin, thx for making life easier =)
We can lynch austin then shiaopi -> lazer -> debears if we haven't won by then. Can scum just concede and save us the time?
##Vote Austin
I think you must be town at this point, but please put in some more effort. If you're town, you of course know that austinmcc is Mafia, but that's not the case for the rest of us. Why are Lazermonkey and debears suspicious? Why should we lynch austinmcc instead of you? Where does your strong townread on me come from? austinmcc is actively participating in the discussion recently while you are not, which is making it slightly harder for me. If you're town, there's no danger in participating. What you say is true and your posts will be logically coherent without any effort. If you're Mafia, it's of course easier to just stay on the background and let things roll at their own pace. No risk involved. So, don't be lazy about this (although austinmcc is likely lynched anyways) and show without a doubt that austinmcc is the right choice.
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On December 07 2012 02:55 Keirathi wrote:Argg fuck me. I can't decide if I believe austin or not. On the one hand, why would scum claim a red check when they had done nothing about ti? Like, if you I was going to fake claim with a red check, I would have at least said it was a red check on someone I had been pushing. But on the other hand, I still can't get over: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 05:05 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2012 04:46 wherebugsgo wrote:w/e, RB or not it doesn't really matter. + Show Spoiler [dota] +What DOES matter is that I just went 12-2-27 as invoker and still lost. This game is like a process of elimination right now. We have established several players as town and basically we just need to kill based on the flips we saw last night. It's that simple, really. I find it odd that BH is not around and talking, but certainly he has time to do so. Also seeing as sandro agrees with me it probably means shiao is scum lolol (<3 sandro scumhunting abilities) (1) We all know that WBG raged at his team, went afk in fountain with Exort invoker, and stole all those kills/assists with Suntrike. (2) I'd like to hear more from you concering folks that aren't ShiaoPi or VE. I got not problem with you sitting back D1, but short of other claims it looks like you or sandro or DYH would be the likely mafia targets tonight. For instance, you wanted to pressure these folks: On December 02 2012 09:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
I also think we should be pressuring these players:
MrZentor
Zealos
Dandel Ion
Shiaopi
since they essentially got away with either abstaining or not doing anything all day 1. I haven't played with MrZ. I know he has a bit of a reputation. I've found him pretty clear and logical this whole game. Does that strike you as odd, or do you have a problem with that? Or does it make you think he's town? Do you still want to pressure him? Zealos hasn't posted since partway through D1. You brought him up a little in relation to VE, but what do you make of his actual posts. I didn't like them D1 when talking to LazerMonkey, BH found them townie, but you haven't said anything about the actual posts that he did make, which is all we have to go off of. I can't wrap my head around any possible motivation for that bit about sandro being shot by scum. That REALLY pushes it towards feeling like a fake claim that just forgot something he said earlier.
The problem is (for austinmcc) that there was no other option. WBG is dead, Zealos is dead, DYH is dead, BH is confirmed town. Who else did he push? He casted some suspicion on ShiaoPi early on, but didn't actually pursue that at any point - actually, quite the opposite. He's been soft defending ShiaoPi after the initial suspicion. He hasn't been pushing anyone he could conveniently frame now. So, his only option is to frame some non-confirmed townie he hasn't been pushing so far (Sandroba, Lazermonkey, debears, myself). Considering that there are possibly Mafia on this list, and that I'm a strong townread for several players, Sandroba isn't really a bad/weird pick for austinmcc. Nobody has him as a high townread and he hasn't done *too* much during this game. It's not a bad bet that he could manage to get Sandroba mislynched today - at least easier than someone like myself or especially one of BH/MrZ/Keirathi. I don't see how austinmcc choosing Sandroba as Mafia is unlikely at all.
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On December 07 2012 05:24 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On December 07 2012 02:55 Keirathi wrote:Argg fuck me. I can't decide if I believe austin or not. On the one hand, why would scum claim a red check when they had done nothing about ti? Like, if you I was going to fake claim with a red check, I would have at least said it was a red check on someone I had been pushing. But on the other hand, I still can't get over: On December 04 2012 05:05 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2012 04:46 wherebugsgo wrote:w/e, RB or not it doesn't really matter. + Show Spoiler [dota] +What DOES matter is that I just went 12-2-27 as invoker and still lost. This game is like a process of elimination right now. We have established several players as town and basically we just need to kill based on the flips we saw last night. It's that simple, really. I find it odd that BH is not around and talking, but certainly he has time to do so. Also seeing as sandro agrees with me it probably means shiao is scum lolol (<3 sandro scumhunting abilities) (1) We all know that WBG raged at his team, went afk in fountain with Exort invoker, and stole all those kills/assists with Suntrike. (2) I'd like to hear more from you concering folks that aren't ShiaoPi or VE. I got not problem with you sitting back D1, but short of other claims it looks like you or sandro or DYH would be the likely mafia targets tonight. For instance, you wanted to pressure these folks: On December 02 2012 09:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
I also think we should be pressuring these players:
MrZentor
Zealos
Dandel Ion
Shiaopi
since they essentially got away with either abstaining or not doing anything all day 1. I haven't played with MrZ. I know he has a bit of a reputation. I've found him pretty clear and logical this whole game. Does that strike you as odd, or do you have a problem with that? Or does it make you think he's town? Do you still want to pressure him? Zealos hasn't posted since partway through D1. You brought him up a little in relation to VE, but what do you make of his actual posts. I didn't like them D1 when talking to LazerMonkey, BH found them townie, but you haven't said anything about the actual posts that he did make, which is all we have to go off of. I can't wrap my head around any possible motivation for that bit about sandro being shot by scum. That REALLY pushes it towards feeling like a fake claim that just forgot something he said earlier. The problem is (for austinmcc) that there was no other option. WBG is dead, Zealos is dead, DYH is dead, BH is confirmed town. Who else did he push? He casted some suspicion on ShiaoPi early on, but didn't actually pursue that at any point - actually, quite the opposite. He's been soft defending ShiaoPi after the initial suspicion. He hasn't been pushing anyone he could conveniently frame now. So, his only option is to frame some non-confirmed townie he hasn't been pushing so far (Sandroba, Lazermonkey, debears, myself). Considering that there are possibly Mafia on this list, and that I'm a strong townread for several players, Sandroba isn't really a bad/weird pick for austinmcc. Nobody has him as a high townread and he hasn't done *too* much during this game. It's not a bad bet that he could manage to get Sandroba mislynched today - at least easier than someone like myself or especially one of BH/MrZ/Keirathi. I don't see how austinmcc choosing Sandroba as Mafia is unlikely at all. You're missing the point I was trying to make. If Austin was scum and wanted to fake claim to get sandro lynched, it would have made infinitely more sense to claim after the day post and say sandro killed DYH night 2. The problem is that if Austin is town and had a red check yesterday...well pretty much anything else would have made infinitely more sense than what he actually did. I don't know how to decide if his play was terrible scum or terrible town.
Hmmmmm. Alright, I can see your point. This is really weird/bad play no matter his alignment. Is it really plausible that he would have intentionally made his job harder if he was Mafia trying to get a mislynch? Is it really plausible that he would have publicly announced Sandroba as a townread of his and had almost non-existent interaction with him during Day 2 if he was 100% certain Sandroba was Mafia? None of this makes any sense. But if he's playing suboptimally in any case, I'd rather lean on the possibility that he messed up / tried to somehow WIFOM his way around this as Mafia (rather than that he didn't act upon his confirmed Mafia knowledge).
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Blazinghand, I agree that ShiaoPi is most likely Mafia. But it's stupid to lynch him in this situation. Here are some reasons:
A) If he is Mafia, austinmcc is most certainly Mafia as well. They're just connected in so many scummy ways.
B) austinmcc flipping Mafia would basically confirm Sandroba as town (unless this is some CRAZY tactic play, but that's not really realistic at all).
C) austinmcc would be far more dangerous alive than ShiaoPi in my opinion (deciding NK's, power role usage, convincing players not to lynch him, etc).
D) austinmcc's filter is a huge pile of information to look at if he flips red, but ShiaoPi's filter isn't that useful to look at.
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Also, just looking at it mathematically, austinmcc's chance of being Mafia is (at least) 50%. ShiaoPi, while definitely scummy, has a much lower chance of flipping Mafia if we look at the odds. And it's just all around stupid to let a fake claimer live.
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On December 07 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote:
man no i get the point though, one of austinmcc/sandro si scum, and sandro is townie and austin is scummy so we should lynch austin by that logic
but damn man
look at shiaopi. just look at that sucker. tell me that dude is town! tell me! Tell me in a way that i'd believe even for a second!
Haha, I can't do that, because I don't believe it myself. The point is that they're very likely both Mafia (probably with one Mafia remaining after them). But lynching austinmcc would clear Sandroba and give us much more information than lynching ShiaoPi. And I have bad experiences about not lynching one of the two players in a redcheck situation... One game I was lynched even after the DT had a redcheck on a real Mafia. It was even LYLO.... So we lost the game when it could have been easily won just by deciding to lynch one of the two.
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Hmmm.... debears, debears...
I'm having some trouble figuring him out. On the other hand, when I read his filter, he is basically commenting on anything he notices and generally seems like a genuine carefree townie. But on the other hand, his posts about austinmcc today strike me as weird. At first he wanted to lynch Sandroba based on some speculation, then he hesitated some more, finally coming to the conclusion that he wanted to lynch austinmcc after all. This would fit with Mafia reluctantly bussing his teammate when left no other option.
But then I keep coming back to this post.
On December 02 2012 09:05 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 09:03 marvellosity wrote:On December 02 2012 09:03 debears wrote:
Because its different in a way scum would not know surely if your PM is different from a townflip, that wouldn't help?  i'm missing something here Actually nvm. I think we should save it for lylo It could be helpful. EVERYONE WHO IS TOWN. LOOK AT YOUR ROLE PM COMPARED TO MARV'S AND THE ONE REVEALED TO BE DP'S DON'T REVEAL IF IT'S DIFFERENT YET. WAIT UNTIL LYLO IF NEED BE THEN REVEAL
I just don't see Mafia posting something like this (or some other posts of his either). I'm starting to get a bit paranoid about the differently highlighted PM's myself, and I wonder if debears actually knows something about this that he's going to save until LYLO. Maybe some special role? Or special PM? Then again, why is debears so confident that he's going to live until LYLO anyway? Could that be a scumslip? Ugh... This setup is the weirdest one I've ever played, that's for sure.
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On December 07 2012 21:37 ShiaoPi wrote:Let's get this on, Sandroba/Dandel Ion: I am starting this with another look at Dandel Ion, remember the one sandroba replaced? No, well that's the thing, he never took any position and was replaced out before he voted, maybe it is due to time constraints, but keep it in the back of your mind that Dandel Ion was more than happy to do nothing d1. Now onto the n1 and beyond when sand takes over n1: Sandroba is active a lot and does some prodding around the relevant issues in thread at that time, So far he already looks miles better than dandel ever did. not much to take notice of here. At the end of the night he gives out a couple of reads: Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 07:40 sandroba wrote:
I have to go out quickly so I'ma post my thoughts early:
Sandroba's Town List for dummies (TM):
WBG - marvelosity = both too emo ragers for it to be fake. I can't see the genuine asshole behavior being faked here and there is no scum motivation for it. I would seriously like to lynch marv for being an assface jerk, but unfortunately I can't convince myself he is scum.
Xatalos - LOL this guy is so townie I don't understand how you baddies manage to bandwagon him day 1. 'Nuff said.
DYH - I really thought this guy was scum for his retard case on xatalos before I read the last 30 pages. However that last minute claim looks really good so I'm putting him as town. Hopefully he can get confirmed by shooting into scummers tonight. Assuming scum have 1 rb (can't really imagine them having 2) either him or marv should get their actions through.
Scummers :
Zealos, BlazingHand are scum. I don't think I need to explain why for BH. Read Zealos oportunistic jump on xata wagon. That post has scum written all over it.
People that I'm unsure but leaning scum:
VE - who you might ask? Yes this dude is playing in this game. I bet you didn't know either. Kei/Ace - Meh ace is a hard one for me to figure out. I thought he was scum when I was obsing because of his "Oh this is interesting" comment, but I'm liking kei a bit more. This BH case seems very convinient though.
First thing in the morning, he votes for me, "convinced" by bugs trash "case". Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 21:38 sandroba wrote:
Hmm Bugs does have a point. Also if we assume BH is town ShiaoPi does fit the same theme as VE yesterday. A totally unimpactful player that just stood by the sidelines, because their team was never in danger. I'm willing to roll with that because I'm getting cold feet about BH flipping scum (VE mentioning he is okay with lynching him/zealos should at least make us consider looking in another direction) and Shiao isn't doing shit so it's less risk involved.
##Vote: ShiaoPi Look at this closely! First he agrees with bugs nitpicking from the filter of VE, where I get mentioned, then he says he "assumes" BH as town in this scenario, when he was his biggest scumread earlier. As main thing justifiying this change of opinion is VE's filter yet again, but this time he is suddenly wary of the things inside VE's filter. I do get softdefended by VE but VE being "ok" with lynching BH is basically the same thing if you take it at facevalue. Now the intersting thing is that he is willing to lynch a less-risky target instead of his earlier top-scumread.... For most of the day he is doing nothing, except some more double-standards regarding VE's filter: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 02:57 sandroba wrote:
It is indeed possible that VE threw zealos name out there and said he would agree to bus him next day out of the blue. It's just not likely. It is basically WIFOM but here WIFOM is not enough to convince him to make a go on Zealos, while in my case it was enough. Why? Then he cruises by until the bugs train gains momentum. He posts this: + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2012 23:08 sandroba wrote:
LISTEN PEOPLE!
I've reread WBG's filter a couple times by now. Consider please that yesterday lynch was between 2 townies and scum shot marvelosity. WBG's behavior makes no sense as mafia. Even if you can twist it somehow like you guys have been trying to do, the tone and emotional content of his posts are very genuine. I've played with mafia bugs before, and while he is hard to read, he is either non confrontational or trollish, he doesn't pick fights with people for absolutely no gain like he has been doing this game.
Now let's look at ShiaoPi. This dude is desperetely trying to survive. Compare his posts d1, when he wasn't in any danger, to his posts today. He is trying really hard to justify any bandwagons he can hop on to save his own ass. Also look at how this retard wagon on bugs gained traction out of the blue. Even more reason to suspect we were right about ShiaoPi. Use your heads please. He is defending his hardtownread, but what is the main argument tone/emotional content are genuine? seriously? He also engages with debears case: + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2012 23:47 sandroba wrote:
Adressing points on debears case:
1) WBG defended DP, but didn't care DYH was lynched.
I would have mislynched DYH 100% D1 if not for his vigi claim. As I've stated before I thought his case on xatalos was utter bullshit and was very convinced of this guy being scum before replacing in. It doesn't surprise me that WBG didn't care if DYH got lynched instead of DP, which he had a town read on. Now as to why he didn't push DYH instead of going for marv I don't know, but I have to admit that marv's claim was pretty sketchy and I had to think real hard before determining he was likely town. "I am DT" in the middle of D1 with slight pressure on him, followed by "I might not be sane" after people start unvoting him looks suspicious as fuck, specially when you are biased because the dude is being a dick in the thread. For mafia it would make way more sense and be way easier to simply ignore marv and try to get into one of the main alternate wagons. Since you say WBG had no qualms lynching DYH why would he not as mafia simply jump on his wagon instead of trying to get marv lynched. Surely you can imagine the backlash he would suffer once marv flipped DT.
2)Vote on marv
I adressed this on the block above.
3)Bunch of random facts
stating facts and saying that they are scummy does not make it so. 'nuff said
4)bunch of random facts
see above
5) Meta comparison to mad men
I thought he was mafia on mad men. I then learned he wasn't. Your comparison is good for proving he is likely town this game though. You see, wbg and erandor had a much closer relationship than you-him. WBG expected erandor to identify he is town and got pissed off and raged in the thread. Simillar to how he expects better of marv and raged in the thread/assumed he was scum for playing like shit D1. The fact that he didn't adress your points can be explained by how he doesn't know your play/doesn't expect much from you and sees no needs to adress a case that has no traction. I doesn't mean he is auto mafia for ignoring you, sorry.
6) claims meta is the same even if you say it isn't
yes. so? Except of the first paragraph he is actually not answering the case at all, he is just talking it down, trying to shut it down with not much real arguments. It would basically be okayish to do that, but in regards of bugs flip and austins check I think he was just trying to get some cred for defending bugs. Now in further pushing me: Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 23:51 sandroba wrote:
@shiaopi I'm voting for you because i think you are scum. Doesn't matter if you say "but, but, but, i didn't do anything, it's ve's fault" or w/e. To find scum you need to define a pattern in which you believe they will behave given a specific situation. Unfortunatelly for you, you fit the pattern I arbitrarily defined that scum would behave day 1 in a 2 townie wagon and then day 2 after being acused. Ve's comment is just icing on the cake and serves to strenghen my belief and make everything fit toghether even more nicely. So I am scum, because he decided so, nice stuff, nice stuff. Fast forward to n2: Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 22:19 sandroba wrote:
Xatalos is most likely not scum. The random Shiaopi isn't scum makes no sense. If you look carefully of how the day went the most likely scenario is that he is indeed scum, given the counter wagons and the hopping out of his wagon as soon as it became clear that there was a possibility of him not being lynched. I don't agree that debears looks townie. I would put him toghether with lazer and austin as the possible remaining scum (besisdes shiaopi).
These mason claims I'm going to look into some more. 4 masons does seem like a lot, but I never before have seen scum claiming it. He is now stating the scumteam as me and some out of lazer/austin/debears. Little to no reasoning at all (besides some stupid stuff about me), looking in his filter we have exactly this mentioning of Lazer, while I can agree with that read since he is fucking useless in gaga-tunneling it is interesting to see debears and austin on that list as well. Sure it can be kind of through negative deduction with him having town reads on Xata and all the masons, but besides this post there is little to no interaction between him and these two. How did he arrive on these reads and why? Now in d3, he just votes austin, not a big deal as scum or town would do that in face of a redcheck, but wtf starting speculation on a possible traitor role? Sure it is a closed setup and the game is called paranoia, but why bring it up in the first place? Occams Razor says he is either a watcher with a red check or a stupid scum for doing a fakeclaim to trade 1for1. I am inclined to believe it is a watcher. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Now on to my read on austin: He starts to scumhunt early into d1: + Show Spoiler +On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 10:54 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 10:51 DarthPunk wrote:On November 30 2012 10:47 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 10:46 DarthPunk wrote:On November 30 2012 10:43 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 10:19 DarthPunk wrote:On November 30 2012 09:49 DoYouHas wrote:
@Darth, what I remember about Xata is that he is not a bad player. With 3-4 games under his belt he may be one of the newest in the game, but I would not call him a complete noob.
What I see are multiple posts that seem uncomfortable and uncertain. His attempt at making a joke out of BH's vote just seems awkward. Making light of confrontation is classic avoidance behavior, something that I think is more likely to be true because of the awkward phrasing.
You could very well be right that this is just noob Xata being genuinely uncomfortable with the start of the game. But you are foolish if you dismiss such classically scummy behavior just because there is a different explanation.
PS: I don't think you are going to like me very much given your advice to Xata. I spend quite a bit of time on my posts regardless of alignment. All I ask is that you take his newness into account. Marv is right though It probably was unnecessary to request this given the player list. However, I don't think it caused any harm either. post how you want. I just read his post as awkward and attributed it to him attempting to over polish his posts. His case on your read that way as well. Can't say I loved his case either. DP plz stop being silly with the noobness argument. Any given sunday brah Your ridiculous. The only thing silly about it was that potentially people should have known what i was requesting already. This comment was completely unneeded, brought up something which was over, and just repeated what marv and others said about it. ##vote: debears Cool. You want to read my other posts which are about other stuff? Or do you really think I could be scum? I read your other posts. mostly meh. That post was scummy though. Care to tell me why they are mostly meh? specifically on the one about the marv town read, the dandel vote, and the doyouhas vote I find it odd that you pick out one of my least important posts while ignoring my more important ones and find me scummy from it Your votes, in particular, aren't very important. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 10:21 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 09:15 Dandel Ion wrote:On November 30 2012 09:13 DarthPunk wrote:On November 30 2012 09:10 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 09:03 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:
##vote Xatalos
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out! Well that is a suspicious way of responding to BH's vote. ##Vote Xatalos Wrong. He is a noob. (no offense) you can't read too much into things like that with him. I'm a noob too, and you already lynched me  So inconsistant ##Vote Dandel@Dandel So you're going to discredit yourself amongst these players by calling yourself a noob? That doesn't make much sense from a town perspective. Also, were you being sarcastic earlier in how serious you were saying we shouldn't joke and stuff? Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 10:46 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 10:38 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 10:29 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 08:25 DoYouHas wrote:
Hi everyone, looking forward to an active game. It's nice to recognize many of the names on the playerlist even though I haven't played in a while.
I'm happy to see Marv/BH/VE in here. With those 3 there is no reason the thread should be inactive.
I'm perhaps overly cautious of Ace. His reputation obviously precedes him. Never having played with him paired with the knowledge that he can be a devastatingly effective scum leader makes me a little paranoid.
As always, I am in favor of lurker lynching on day1 unless a better candidate shows up (which it inevitably will). DoYouHas Why are you trying to paint such a picture on ace? Sure, he is a forefather of TL Mafia, and I'm sure all of us are aware of his ability. But why try to focus on his scumplay so much over his town play? As I recall, he is also a pretty darn good town player. Stating how you are overly cautious of him (implying somewhat to others that they should also be) just because he's a good mafia player doesn't seem like something a townie would do Because it does the dual job of accurately explaining my feelings towards him to start the game and hopefully stirring up a little fear towards him so that people don't sheep him quite as readily. If he ends up taking a town leader role, I want him to earn it instead of being ushered into it on his reputation. That doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to sheep someone cuz of their reputation. I'm going to sheep if their case 1) makes sense 2) is good 3) I believe they are town If he takes a town leader position, it'll be because of those things. Not because of his reputation ##Unvote
##Vote DoYouHas Then you quickly drop a new vote on DoYouHas. Because...you don't think that you would sheep Ace because he's Ace. DoYouHas does NOT want people sheeping Ace based on reputation. You want the same, but vote him because he said that? What exactly is your reasoning for voting DoYouHas? On November 30 2012 11:22 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.
Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) He's not asking to be ignored. This is the chain in which Dandel Ion speaks: Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 09:15 Dandel Ion wrote:On November 30 2012 09:13 DarthPunk wrote:On November 30 2012 09:10 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 09:03 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:
##vote Xatalos
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out! Well that is a suspicious way of responding to BH's vote. ##Vote Xatalos Wrong. He is a noob. (no offense) you can't read too much into things like that with him. I'm a noob too, and you already lynched me So inconsistant He says he's a noob. Discrediting was DoYouHas's word I believe, but I'd argue that (1) There can be benefits to scum in lurking (2) What Dandel Ion did (making a post calling himself a noob) =/= lurking To some extent, calling yourself a noob implies that you're going to sit back and let other people do the heavy lifting. But I don't really attribute any kind of purpose to Dandel Ion's post like that, and I don't think it makes sense for scum to point out newness, because iirc every newbie guide says apologies/hiding behind newness = scum. tl;dr I think there's a difference between lurking/being passive/playing to be ignored and Dandel Ion's post. Just 2 of many examples of him prodding/analyzing all day long. He is also sharing reads repeatedly e.g.: + Show Spoiler +On December 02 2012 06:32 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 06:15 Lazermonkey wrote:
Austin! You've been posting suspicion on several players now but are yet to cast a vote. Who is, in your opinion, top second etc scum read?
I think Zealos is my top scumread. ##vote: ZealosBeyond that, I'm worried about...hmmmm. Both you and DP concern me, I don't think both of you are scum, but I can't figure out which is which. Right now, I'm inclined to believe you're scummier between the two. DP had some good points on you, and I was going back and forth with you yesterday because I haven't played with you (I don't think), so I wanted to try and get a better sense of where you were. I came away feeling alright from that exchange, but reading over how some other people viewed it, I think a lot of my good feelings came from the fact that you actually interacted and kept things moving somewhat, and I wasn't paying enough attention to your actual comments on folks. However, you're not my #2 scumread. That's actually ShiaoPi right now. I don't like typing that out, it seems like someone else should be there, but it's him. I don't care about reading BH right now, because I think he's useful for town regardless of his alignment. I'm not bothering to really try and solidify reads on some people that aren't relevant to the D1 lynch - Ace, Zentor, DYH. Nobody in the remaining players sticks out to me like Zealos, ShiaoPi, and you do. Read those posts I quoted, I would assume it gets rather obvious that his d1-play was incredibly pro-town. Now the main problem of you seems to be that he did not react at all to the redcheck he got. Now without knowing the fact that he has a redcheck, go through his day2 posts, they are more of the same, contstructive posts, pushing discussion, asking questions, sharing reads, in short townplay. Now lets take a look at his claim: + Show Spoiler +On December 06 2012 08:00 austinmcc wrote:
Assorted stuff. I don't think I will die tonight, but there's a small chance, and may as well get this into the open.
I am a watcher. N1 I watched marvellosity. Sandroba, and only Sandroba, visited him. Therefore, Sandroba killed marvellosity. Therefore, Sandroba.
If you look at my D2, I ask Sandroba a couple questions, some concerning his reads on ShiaoPi and WBG, especially his defense of WBG. This is one reason I ended up locked in on WBG and not wanting to lynch ShiaoPi, and one reason I've been weird about ShiaoPi. Sandroba dropped a vote and ShiaoPi early and was gone for much of the rest of the day, and defended WBG in this odd manner. In my mind, knowing that Sandroba was scum, it made the choice between the two easy - lynch WBG.
I didn't claim because I actually thought WBG was scum, that there was no need to claim to ensure a scum lynch. Now, we've got a bit of uncertainty, so I can do so. We can lynch Sandroba to partially-confirm me if you guys would like, you can lynch me to confirm (not recommended).
Tonight I am watching keirathi or BH. Still flipping back and forth between the two (5 minutes until end). Scum, non-sandroba scum, pretty please shoot the guy I'm watching.
Right now I'm worried about the power roles in town. Confirmed cop, confirmed 1 mason pair of at least one townie, I'm confirmed watcher to me. That leaves a vigi...maybe? And maybe other masons.
For a game in which scum had one KP N1 allegedly. Not buying it. Either DYH is scum or SK or scum has large numbers low KP, something. Otherwise, I've kind of been a bum as I am wont to be when blue, relying on role too much to play the game and not analysis, and also trying to wrap my head around CT mafia.
Now that this is in the open, I can go back to playing normally. Slash what an awful end of night/claim post. Why claim at night if you are scum? YOu could easily just do so at day, since you will not get shot anyway. straightforwardclaim in which he also shares some of his reasons for claiming now, and why he was not on the fence against sandroba. I can understand him and therefore I chose to believe his claim. Now look further into the day, even when pressured from so many sides he continues to scumhunt: + Show Spoiler +On December 06 2012 08:43 austinmcc wrote:Although you being scum makes the interactions between you/ShiaoPi and sandroba/ShiaoPi all the weirder. Are you BOTH bussing him? I guess then you bus him, use that post to say it implicates me, then get me lynched while trying to get a little cred for lynching ShiaoPi? Curious. All I know for sure right now, is that Sandroba is scum. If you think I'm so scummy, why is Sandroba townie? I notice in that post you say "you're leaning town" on Sandroba, but you don't give any further reasoning. See posts like these: D1 - Xatalos thinks Dandel Ion is scummy Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 01:14 Xatalos wrote:What I'm most concerned about are these players: VisceraEyes, DoYouHas, Dandel Ion. They all have been pretty passive background characters who are not lurking/trolling/playing bad, but not really doing anything either. I think there's a high chance for 1-2 of them being Mafia. [Stuff on VE] Dandel Ion hasn't put any real effort into his posts yet. He's just made some fluff one-liners and semi-useful "advice" like these: On November 30 2012 23:10 Dandel Ion wrote:
I mean, I agree that Lazermonkey is being overeager with calling you out like that, but Xatalos already answered you. What information do you expect to gain by asking the same thing again? On December 01 2012 14:53 Dandel Ion wrote:
It's a themed game. Please tell me you're not gonna start a setup speculation.
Just quickly skimmed the thread, do ya still want me to explain how, when and how well I read guides, or did you realize that it was a silly question in the first place yet? Dandel Ion doesn't just seem to care about Mafia hunting, even though he has posted a decent amount and with semi-useful content as well. I'd need to see some real improvement in his posting to make my suspicions fade. Sharing some reads or anything beneficial to finding Mafia would be a good start. Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 02:55 Xatalos wrote:On December 02 2012 01:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
So who do you want to lynch Xata? Which of the three is scummiest to you? VisceraEyes at the moment. DoYouHas and Dandel Ion haven't made any actual effort to contribute, but they haven't done anything outright scummy either. I'm most suspicious of VE's opportunistic vote for debears and his lack of interest to do pretty much anything useful after that. Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 05:01 Xatalos wrote:
If any of VE/DYH/Dandel can't be lynched tonight, at least it's a perfect opportunity to make some pressure. I'll change my target from VE if needed before the deadline. 3 posts, VE and Dandel Ion so scummy. Let's lynch em. Let's lynch em. N1/D2 - Dandel Ion now Sandroba, Sandroba suddenly townie for no real reason Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 19:54 Xatalos wrote:
Of my other original suspects VE was obviously Mafia and DYH is now confirmed town, and Dandel Ion was replaced by sandroba (who feels townish so far) so I'm not willing to lynch other players at this moment. Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 22:16 Xatalos wrote:On December 03 2012 21:38 sandroba wrote:
Hmm Bugs does have a point. Also if we assume BH is town ShiaoPi does fit the same theme as VE yesterday. A totally unimpactful player that just stood by the sidelines, because their team was never in danger. I'm willing to roll with that because I'm getting cold feet about BH flipping scum (VE mentioning he is okay with lynching him/zealos should at least make us consider looking in another direction) and Shiao isn't doing shit so it's less risk involved.
##Vote: ShiaoPi Hmm. Alright, I can agree with lynching ShiaoPi today. It also helps that I have a town read on both you and WBG. And ShiaoPi hasn't been lurking quite as heavily as Zealos, but he hasn't done anything either. ##Unvote
##Vote ShiaoPiAlthough I'm wondering where Zealos has disappeared. And Lazermonkey. What we need now is more posts by several players who haven't done anything for a while (or even all game). Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 04:36 Xatalos wrote:
I'm willing to give Dandel/Sandroba a pass though, since Dandel didn't interact with pretty much anyone and Sandroba has been very helpful with his posts. Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 06:16 Xatalos wrote:
Realistically DYH, Keirathi, BH and MrZentor are out of the picture. I'm also leaning town on debears, sandroba, austinmcc and Lazermonkey.
Would you care to explain why Sandroba is townie? Would you care to explain why DI was one of your top scum suspects D1, but D2 it's "Dandel didn't interact with pretty much anyone and Sandroba has been helpful with his posts" so they get a pass? It's curious to me that one of your top 3 scumreads became a guy you think is townie but you never actually said why. and also this: + Show Spoiler +On December 07 2012 05:15 austinmcc wrote:Lazer, if you're still around, let's have a chat. I wanted to look you over and was, but now you're here. Hooray! You, along with all other not-mes, find my actions ridiculous and don't believe my claim. Okay. So then, about my play: (1) You think my play is less optimal as town than as scum. Go into that, why? You think I didn't play out D2 properly if I had a red check. But that applies equally to not playing out my D2 properly if I was going to do this as scum. Especially given that I can easily make up other things as scum. Why is one less optimal than the other? (2) Have you looked at the past games I listed? Do they matter to you? Should they?
As to you, I see a mix of posts in your filter. Mostly short ones. Some longer ones when you respond, make a case on ShiaoPi, actually get involved. But apart from throwing in some general musings on WBG/ShiaoPi and masons, and your case on ShiaoPi, I don't get the feeling there's much there. DYH was worried about you yesterday, and now he's a bit deceased. So, some questions. At the end of each night, you've given two massive posts of reads. Why? Why not give them throughout the night? Why are most of your reads only ever popping up this late? Moreover, your reads on Sandroba haven't exactly been townie... Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 08:00 Lazermonkey wrote:
DI/Sandroba I cannot comment on really. There isn't anything to comment on in fact. Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 07:59 Lazermonkey wrote:Sandroba - I haven't done very much analysis on him either. However one of his posts earlier today caught my attention a bit. On December 05 2012 21:28 sandroba wrote:
wow. you guys. really. you make me sad.
Remember that Sandrobawas not present during the lynch. Not even close, He basically went afk about 12 hours before it. Also, he doesn't actually comment on anything regarding the lynch. Just that it's bad. Saying stuff like this risk to demoralize town. So why would someone as town say this? I really don't see the motivation for it. Not really lych worthy but still. I will look more closely into sandroba later. You don't see a town motivation for a post Sandroba made. That's basically your only comment on Sandroba. Did you ever go look at Sandroba? If not...why not? Especially given he's a major player in today's lynch, why haven't you looked at him? THough to most of you this post of him sums it up pretty much I guess: Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 08:46 austinmcc wrote:
Breadcrumbs can be faked np. Same as with a breadcrumb, if you believe my claim, you may find that it explains some of my ShiaoPi v. WBG actions, and explains me trying to milk info from Sandroba. If you don't, you'll think I'm making it up, whether breadcrumb or explanation.
The "anything" that I can PROVE my role with would be nothing, unless we have a rolecop. However, Sandro will flip red whenever you lynch him. And I'll flip watcher if I die. I believe him, you don't, I have a scumread on sandroba you dont. Also please keep in mind he was the only one who asked for mason logs. Those logs have basically confirmed BH/Zentor as town, there is no fucking way that those were faked. What would be to gain for austin to keep asking for the logs at end of the n2 and now during d3. Don't tell me it's this, because he obviously was not serious: Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 09:38 austinmcc wrote:
Grrrrrr, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO NOT HAVE LOGS AND THEN WE CAN ALL YELL "GOTCHA!" There is so much more town-motivated play behind austins post than behind sandroba. Thing is you are all blinded by the fact that he did not push a redcheck he had. Everything else is unimportant to you. So following your logic there is no way for me to convince you even with this wall of text. But please please consider what I wrote here. Austin is our watcher and it is incredibly silly to lynch him now....
I agree that austinmcc's play was proactive and overall townish during Day 1. That's why I put him as a townread then. The point where I started getting suspicious was him squirming about you (especially since you're starting to feel like a confirmed scum at this point). Then his claim... He didn't breadcrumb his redcheck, he didn't act upon it in the slightest... It's just too much to believe it's real. It's a point in his favor that he asked for masonlogs, but it's something easy to do as either alignment, and doesn't really tell much (they would have probably provided them sooner or later in any case).
I'm not really convinced of that scumread you have on Sandroba. You start by saying that he's "looking much better than Dandel" (who was somewhat of a null read). So you had a townread on him before the events of Day 2? But you don't really point out anything scummy in his play during Day 2 - okay, maybe his inactivity, laziness to reason and opinion changes without real explanation, but those are just lazy/anti-town/null traits, not inherently SCUMMY traits. If you compare to MrZentor, MrZentor has been WAY more fickle and lazy than Sandroba ever was. Yet he's very evidently town. There's just no Mafia agenda to be seen behind Sandroba, although I agree that his play as town isn't optimal.
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On December 07 2012 23:06 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 21:38 Xatalos wrote:Hmmm.... debears, debears... I'm having some trouble figuring him out. On the other hand, when I read his filter, he is basically commenting on anything he notices and generally seems like a genuine carefree townie. But on the other hand, his posts about austinmcc today strike me as weird. At first he wanted to lynch Sandroba based on some speculation, then he hesitated some more, finally coming to the conclusion that he wanted to lynch austinmcc after all. This would fit with Mafia reluctantly bussing his teammate when left no other option. But then I keep coming back to this post. On December 02 2012 09:05 debears wrote:On December 02 2012 09:03 marvellosity wrote:On December 02 2012 09:03 debears wrote:
Because its different in a way scum would not know surely if your PM is different from a townflip, that wouldn't help? i'm missing something here Actually nvm. I think we should save it for lylo It could be helpful. EVERYONE WHO IS TOWN. LOOK AT YOUR ROLE PM COMPARED TO MARV'S AND THE ONE REVEALED TO BE DP'S DON'T REVEAL IF IT'S DIFFERENT YET. WAIT UNTIL LYLO IF NEED BE THEN REVEAL I just don't see Mafia posting something like this (or some other posts of his either). I'm starting to get a bit paranoid about the differently highlighted PM's myself, and I wonder if debears actually knows something about this that he's going to save until LYLO. Maybe some special role? Or special PM? Then again, why is debears so confident that he's going to live until LYLO anyway? Could that be a scumslip? Ugh... This setup is the weirdest one I've ever played, that's for sure. Maybe I can't be lynched  wifomwifomwifom
WIFOM OVERWHELMING
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On December 08 2012 01:23 ShiaoPi wrote:
Can you pkease switch off austin??? Seriously he is town as fuck. Get over the fact that ge did not crumb and pkay the way you would play tracker.
Hm. I have to say that austinmcc's defense today has felt townish. But it would mean that Sandroba is Mafia and you+austinmcc are pretty much confirmed town. And I have quite a hard time believing that the remaining Mafia would be something like Sandroba+debears+Lazermonkey/debears instead of austinmcc+ShiaoPi+Lazermonkey/debears.
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EBWOP: Sandroba+debears+Lazermonkey
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I'm leaning on austinmcc+ShiaoPi+Lazermonkey making the most sense right now. Although austinmcc has played relatively townish (except some things like not reacting to the supposed redcheck, lack of breadcrumbs, etcetc)... And I don't really see debears as Mafia at this point, but he'd have to be Mafia if austinmcc was town.
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On December 08 2012 01:48 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 01:46 Xatalos wrote:
I'm leaning on austinmcc+ShiaoPi+Lazermonkey making the most sense right now. Although austinmcc has played relatively townish (except some things like not reacting to the supposed redcheck, lack of breadcrumbs, etcetc)... And I don't really see debears as Mafia at this point, but he'd have to be Mafia if austinmcc was town. I didn't "not react" to my watch. I reacted, but in a way that nobody likes. I decided to be sneaky, but don't seem to have done that well, and didn't get anything for it really. And no, I didn't crumb. But I generally haven't crumbed my roles, and I didn't crumb when I found a message in Bureaucracy, and didn't crumb when I shot someone in LVII.
Hmmm. I can somehow accept that you don't usually crumb, although it's stupid. But being "sneaky" (passive) after getting a redcheck is just too much to believe. I think your way of defending yourself today is townish, I really do... more townish than Sandroba's play today definitely... still, it's not enough to change my vote. I can't bring myself to believe you actually got a redcheck on Sandroba and didn't actively pursue that.
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On December 08 2012 02:23 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 02:14 Xatalos wrote:On December 08 2012 01:48 austinmcc wrote:On December 08 2012 01:46 Xatalos wrote:
I'm leaning on austinmcc+ShiaoPi+Lazermonkey making the most sense right now. Although austinmcc has played relatively townish (except some things like not reacting to the supposed redcheck, lack of breadcrumbs, etcetc)... And I don't really see debears as Mafia at this point, but he'd have to be Mafia if austinmcc was town. I didn't "not react" to my watch. I reacted, but in a way that nobody likes. I decided to be sneaky, but don't seem to have done that well, and didn't get anything for it really. And no, I didn't crumb. But I generally haven't crumbed my roles, and I didn't crumb when I found a message in Bureaucracy, and didn't crumb when I shot someone in LVII. Hmmm. I can somehow accept that you don't usually crumb, although it's stupid. But being "sneaky" (passive) after getting a redcheck is just too much to believe. I think your way of defending yourself today is townish, I really do... more townish than Sandroba's play today definitely... still, it's not enough to change my vote. I can't bring myself to believe you actually got a redcheck on Sandroba and didn't actively pursue that. So I was playing townish on D1. I'm playing townish today. But you disagree with what I did D2. That's fine. But if I've mainly been playing townish, and Sandroba doesn't seem to be playing townish (and bee tee dubs, is supposedly lazy as scum), then I'm not entirely clear why the vote's on me. If we kill sandroba today, he'll flip red. You guys will almost certainly see me flip tonight, because sandroba would be gone and scum would be taking a risk trying to kill someone without getting watched. They could try and be tricksy with targeting, but even that confirms me somewhat - a less-than-optimal NK shows that they're playing around a watch. You may not believe I have a redcheck, fine. But that entirely overpowers the fact that I was playing townie on D1, townie today, that Sandroba isn't raelly playing townie? When I've got a history of being somewhat retarded with my roles (although less so than this I guess) and Sandroba has a history of being lazy scum?
Ugh........ This is hard. It's a good point that Sandroba is supposed to be lazy as Mafia... and he's playing very lazy now... and not exactly townish either... while you're playing active and townish... meaning he might be the Mafia after all......? Even though your Day 2 doesn't make really sense as town. But you've played retarded as town before, I guess. Now I'm unsure again.
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On December 08 2012 02:49 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 02:42 sandroba wrote:
I'm not being lazy, I just don't see the point in repeating the obvious ten times over. Austin is for sure putting in a good show, but that's to be expected since it's likely he put all his chips in this silly move. I am reading this constantly, I just don't feel like participating in this circular argument. Hi town, it's me, austinmcc, and I'm one of you. You are pretty sure that only one of Sandroba or I is town, and the other is mafia. I am either town and trying to figure the game out today, trying to leave you with my thoughts, trying to pull extra information out of other players OR I'm putting on a show of it. I'm asking for logs, I'm poking at lazermonkey, I'm actually doing things to get reads and push the game forward. But yes, I could be making a show of it. On the other hand, Sandroba, at most, is ... reading. That's nice of him, and it's nice he thinks today has just been a circular argument, but it hasn't. Today you will probably lynch me or lynch Sandroba. The game will almost certainly not end. Sandroba is putting no effort into the longer game. Sandroba is putting no effort into figuring things out. Sandroba is content to sit back and read, not engage, and do nothing. If I'm actually trying to push the game forward today, that fits. I'm town; he's scum; we're playing about how you'd expect. If I'm putting on a show of it...what is he doing? In that world, I'm mafia and he's town. Yet he's not making an effort to do anything beyond see me lynched. He's not trying to figure the game out, he's not engaging in any discussion, he's not asking for logs from our claimed masons. If you think that I'm just putting on a show, then why isn't Sandroba trying to do anything today? Becuase either he gets lynched today or tomorrow. There's no reason for him to put effort into this game, because he's dead either way. I'll flip watcher, you'll lynch him. There's absolutely no scenario where he survives and helps his team, so there's no reason for him to put in any effort.
I'm actually starting to believe in the possibility of you being town. Sandroba playing like he has would definitely fit a Mafia who has given up and isn't going to leak any more information, since he's dead soon. But you've continued pushing even harder to play the game when your death has seemed almost certain. That's not how I'd expect Mafia to play at all. And if you're Mafia, you have really done an incredible job of appearing so townish throughout the game... I'm seriously reconsidering right now.
Sandroba, how about you try adding something to the discussion?
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On December 08 2012 02:42 sandroba wrote:
I'm not being lazy, I just don't see the point in repeating the obvious ten times over. Austin is for sure putting in a good show, but that's to be expected since it's likely he put all his chips in this silly move. I am reading this constantly, I just don't feel like participating in this circular argument.
On December 08 2012 02:58 sandroba wrote:
Huh? I'm not posting huge walls of nonsense because I have no agenda to get some townie lynch and trade with him one for one. If people were being dumb enough to believe your ridiculous claim, yes, I would have to maybe argue a bit more, but lucky that isn't needed.
On December 08 2012 03:01 sandroba wrote:
What would you like me to add? I made my stance pretty clear on everybody in this game.
On December 08 2012 03:16 sandroba wrote:
Actually it's paused for 120 hours. We were supposed to lynch Shiaopi 5 days ago.
Sandroba, you're not making this easy. Even if you say you're not being lazy, what are these posts if not lazy? They don't contribute anything, they don't add any new information to the thread, they do absolutely nothing. If this goes on, I'll start having some serious trouble believing you're town and still playing like this.
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On December 08 2012 03:20 Keirathi wrote:
##Unvote austinmcc
##Vote sandroba
My gut right now says that despite all the reasons to believe his claim is bullshit, that austin is just trying too hard to be scum.
Alright, I'm in as well.
##Unvote austinmcc
##Vote Sandroba
At the very least this should force Sandroba to do something useful today. And considering austinmcc's devotion to pushing the discussion today, I'm starting to have cold feet about austinmcc flipping red.
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BH, MrZentor, debears, are you there? What are your opinions on this?
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What the heck happened to Sandroba? He hasn't posted anything after Keirathi and I voted for him. Even though he was online just before that and said he's been "reading all the time". Somehow I'm starting to feel like he's actively lurking and, seeing he's in a tough spot, deciding to just deny additional information instead of trying to save himself. I had doubts about lynching him when I voted for him, but it's starting to look like it was the right choice. No way would town Sandroba have such non-existent thread presence, even not bothering to be useful when faced with an impending lynch. He clearly doesn't care about town's well-being = Mafia (or just really anti-town, which I can't believe a veteran would be, especially after getting a fake claim aimed at him).
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I think I'm gonna just kill myself if Sandroba flips town But his play today has been completely unacceptable... It's extremely anti-town in comparison to austinmcc. 40 minutes left................ We'll see soon enough.........
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EPT
