Chrono Trigger Mafia

On November 21 2012 17:01 syllogism wrote:
All this talk about treating this game like Resistance is misguided or malicious, at least if the implication is that the game is only about looking for townies. Resistance is a game with no roles, transparent mechanics, no flips, clear goal and every day you gain information that isn't particularly subject to manipulation. In this game there is some sort of mafia NK mechanic, hitpoint mechanic, likely a lot of roles and town can even win by eliminating all the mafia. This suggests that there is a lot of KP in the game and it is not limited to just mafia. Moreover, I think the more mafia are left alive when Lavos is summoned, the harder it is for town to win.

The point being, there is little reason for us not to also be looking for mafia in the thread. Mafia have relatively easy time blending in if all they have to do is pretend to be looking for townies or even worse every single day just look for the best party leader. Identifying likely mafia will also give our blues something to work on.

So, while it's fine that we early on discuss about who is likely to be town or who would be the good leader, this shouldn't last and the game should be played quite like a normal mafia game. Town hunting can be mostly restricted to your spreadsheets unless you are trying to convince the likely party leader to include someone on the team.

On November 21 2012 21:27 syllogism wrote:

What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else.

On November 21 2012 21:47 syllogism wrote:

Do you think I'm more or less likely to have a conversation with a player who can "mindread" me if I'm mafia? So far your point of view on things has not appeared honest to me or at the very least your analysis isn't on the level I would expect if you are town. Also this is not the second conversation.

On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible

On November 22 2012 16:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
@Syllo
I think that it is a better idea to talk about your party members and give reasoning rather than keeping it quiet, at least for the first cycle. This way it gives us more info about the players and your reads on them which will help us when the flips start happening.

On November 22 2012 16:53 syllogism wrote:
When I said I may reveal who I am going to pick after the day post, I meant that I might explain why I picked the team I did, not just list the names as that is obviously unnecessary

On November 22 2012 17:02 syllogism wrote:

If the mission is a success and everyone considers me town anyway I don't think that's necessary and I would then rather be lazy.

On November 23 2012 04:08 syllogism wrote:
I guess if Sandroba is mafia, what I said about marvel's play not making strategical sense from mafia point of view is moot. In addition, he doesn't seem worried about dying in the near future, considering his hp related remark and him already announcing that he may run for an election in the future. Regardless, it's not relevant now and I am not going to go through his filter to determine whether it makes sense content-wise. That's not important right now though and a content based evaluation has to be made when it is.

I've a team ready. Not entirely satisfied with it as usually figuring out 3 virtually certain townies is easier; perhaps it's the format or the players complicating things or me just not being familiar with a lot of people here. Around 4 hours until deadline, is this correct?

On November 23 2012 05:01 syllogism wrote:

I don't understand your point here, how is something like that alignment indicative at all?

On November 24 2012 04:09 syllogism wrote:
I'll give my thoughts as to who should be our lynch tomorrow. Taking a break today and not just because I'm lazy and there is no night cycle.

On November 24 2012 05:00 syllogism wrote:
I'm usually vary of interpreting contradictions as an indication of someone being mafia as that depends a lot on the person question, but that one seems pretty bad. He hasn't really done anything other than propose his bad plan. A lot of posts and no useful content at all.

On November 24 2012 05:10 syllogism wrote:

I agree that the plan he proposed seemed towny and some of his reactions feel genuine, but his content and that contradiction point the other way. I don't think he is the best lynch today, however.

On November 24 2012 05:56 syllogism wrote:
A lot of things he has said so far have been a little off and I agree that question is one of those.

On November 24 2012 06:16 syllogism wrote:

I agree that his reads, or at least the reasoning behind them, have been weak as is often the case when he is mafia. The way he suggests Cave as an "alternative" while still stressing that he would love to lynch sandroba is also suspicious. Cave may be mafia, but I don't understand what his plan is because he has essentially guaranteed that he will never be selected to the party. I think his very first post said that he shouldn't be selected; would he do that as mafia and would his team allow it? Third party seems more likely.

Kita's early attacks were focused on me over sandroba and the attacks were very weak. He never addressed sandroba directly, except when sandro asked him a random question.

Here he paints me, marvel and sandro red
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984163

50 minutes later he says he hasn't read sandro's filter yet and says sandro's posts have been reasonable and logical (although he says that doesn't make him town)

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16984518

The turkey post wasn't obviously completely serious, but seems weird to paint us red as a joke

On November 24 2012 06:25 syllogism wrote:

I wouldn't lynch kita today even if Sandro wasn't an option. I don't think the second question makes sense, but yes I can more accurately identify alignment of a player who I know extremely well.

On November 24 2012 05:40 syllogism wrote:
I was going to wait until tomorrow so I could see who people are pushing today without me, to an extent, locking down discussion. I don't think it's particularly working though and kita can't wait (whether he is town remains to be seen, but I don't think it's worth the gamble).

I'm fairly certain that sandroba is mafia. He hasn't done anything useful whole game long and he definitely could have. Everything that I've said about him before is still applicable. Even if he has been busy, it was by choice. No one forced him to run for election and he could have at any time dropped out and supported me. If he was town, I think he would have as soon as he figured out that I'm town.

Moreover, his attitude when he came back is still wrong. Instead of attempting to convince me or even address me, he just addresses everyone generally. He claims that I have been paranoid about his alignment in merc mini and that 80+ player game, but that is false or an exaggeration. In the huge game I was, in fact, pushing him for mayor on day 1 (we were both town). In merc mini I was only slightly suspicious because his ability completely broke the game, but I never wanted to lynch him at any point; the only suspicions were voiced over PM.

If he was town, he would be attempting to convince me, not play down my ability to read him accurately. To those who believe sandroba is town, what do you think mafia did on day 1? Who is mafia? Did they really have no one who could have ran and won? Do you think it's kita or acro were the mafia candidates then?

Regarding Sandroba

Along similar lines as the read on GoodKarma, him completely abandoning his campaign and sheeping on Syllo doesn't make much sense from a scum perspective. Why guarentee a strong town player complete control over party selections? Makes no sense as scum. While his activity dipped down today, the day is still young, and I can't blame people for lack of activity on Thanksgiving.

On November 24 2012 06:54 syllogism wrote:

I don't think Sandroba is in the US currently and I believe very few people celebrate thanksgiving in Brazil.

Also some of you people aren't giving my ability to read sandroba nearly enough weight

On November 24 2012 07:18 syllogism wrote:

I don't feel comfortable using that kind of meta knowledge against him (ie. knowledge I have obtained due to talking him a lot outside the game). This answer doesn't confirm or deny whether that is true, because I do not know the answer unless I convert time zones and think about it more.

He can disappear for long periods of time even as town, but the case against him isn't that he disappeared even though a lot of people are attempting to portray it as such.

On November 24 2012 17:46 syllogism wrote:
That doesn't read like a town sandro post. It misconstrues parts of the case and the tone is off. It doesn't provide us anything useful. My vote isn't moving.

On November 24 2012 21:52 syllogism wrote:
Stop distorting the case against him Acro. I seem to be trying to read sandro as if I'm skyping with him? That's completely nonsensical.

You don't feel sandro is not playing any different? How about the fact he has done or said nothing useful at all whole game long. Not a single read; just throwing a name out there with no reasoning is not a read. Failure to construct reads is fairly in line with what? Is the sandro you know completely useless? The little time he has devoted to the game has centered around him defending himself rather than doing something actually useful.

Despite the amount of seeming effort you are putting into the game, your defense of Sandro is starting to feel quite suspicious.

On November 26 2012 03:21 syllogism wrote:
I think those may potentially affect mission success, but in the end best and most likely design is based primarily on mafia being included in the team. I do not think a mission can fail if there is no mafia included; that kind of hidden mechanics are simply not fun. The only possible, and still unfun, exception I can see would be some kind of one-shot mafia ability, but I think they would have used that on n1.

In fact, I think the speculation revolving around whether we should include claimed characters or players with matching time period flavor is also misguided (dienosore and oats should be included because they were on a successful day 1 mission, although the roles do not hurt).

So, in short, ignore hp/roles, unless the claims themselves make someone more likely to be town.

On November 26 2012 23:34 syllogism wrote:
I've very strong reasons for considering Prom mafia, so how about directing your damage that way. Also you are just plain wrong in saying that whether his role seems ridiculous or not is irrelevant, just like you were yesterday when you were telling everyone how wrong they were about sandroba.

If you are town, how about not arguing against me every single day

On November 27 2012 15:17 syllogism wrote:
He said he 'knew which way Sand was pointing when he was Rb'd'. His claim has evolved multiple times since then. Why would you even assume on n1 that the only roleblocked people just happened to visit me?

On November 27 2012 15:25 syllogism wrote:

Whatever, just read Hapa's case on him and his reactions to my suspicions. There is no way he is town. I can't believe how difficult it is to convince you people that someone who claimed something might be mafia.

On November 27 2012 15:37 syllogism wrote:
Oh there is basically a red check on Acro. Don't worry hopeless, I got your back.

On November 28 2012 04:59 syllogism wrote:
Looking back, the seeming "difficulty" in finding townies on day 1 might just have been due to there being many really towny players who were, in fact, town. I had too many town reads and was starting to second guess myself based on everyone being town.

On November 28 2012 01:25 Hapahauli wrote:


Well both of those guys (clarity and iamp) have town reads on me, so the heals make sense from that perspective.

From what I understand:
Post-D1: I took 0 damage. Either iamp's claimed heal was completely wasted OR it nullified any damage directed towards me.
Post-D2: I took 100 damage. No one healed me (or no one has claimed so), and Toad claimed he shot me for 100.
Post-D3: I took 50 damage, and nl_clarity healed me for an undisclosed amount, indicating that I took more than 50 damage.

On November 30 2012 01:48 syllogism wrote:

It's an incredibly suboptimal way regardless of alignment and some of the things that were said by you were just mindboggling. It doesn't help that, of course, that I was suspicious of your play even before that so I'm interpreting everything through that prism. What kind of consequences do you expect there to be for outing a name of a minor character? You didn't even think it was important to keep it secret as you voluntarily divulged the name before anyone even had posted in the QT. We've had two major characters claim their names and neither of them has even been roleblocked yet.

On December 01 2012 15:21 TheChronicler wrote:
Confirming that I didn't get a pm. Gnight.

On December 02 2012 00:58 syllogism wrote:
Well he claimed using an ability on you and I've an idea what it might have done

Strongandbig you might as well claim what it was

On December 02 2012 21:04 syllogism wrote:
Cliff notes version: Djodref is mafia

On December 02 2012 21:17 syllogism wrote:
Prom why did Clarity take damage despite the seed shield?

On December 02 2012 21:24 syllogism wrote:
Djodref was. For mafia, being "confirmed" as a townie in this format is worth sacrificing some KP for.

On December 02 2012 21:35 syllogism wrote:

I don't know if that's all from mafia, but yes that kind of play makes sense in this format if Djodref is mafia. I have to read the post where Djodref claims the save as claiming makes no sense if you can just stay hidden and protect the player for all eternity. I think at the time of the claim we already had enough "confirmed" townies to form a team.

On November 30 2012 00:10 iamperfection wrote:
hey if anyone thinks im not town say it now.

If not i say its time i get in the party.

On December 03 2012 00:34 syllogism wrote:

You haven't made nonsensical excuses as to why you should be included and haven't played down other potential candidates for reasons that also apply to yourself.