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Chrono Trigger Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 19 2012 07:00 GMT
#52
/in tentatively
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-19 16:55:35
November 19 2012 16:53 GMT
#81
The original post states that preference is given to experienced players. Some of the people who have signed up have not played before, at least on TL; a few of them also have very low post counts and there is even a self admitted "mafia smurf". What I'm saying is that it's a shame if Toadsstern doesn't get to play.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 19 2012 20:40 GMT
#106
##beat Gato up
##earn silver points
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 06:22 GMT
#507
I'm in the process of reading the thread, but I'm nominating myself. I'm not going to tell who I'm going to bring along until closer to the deadline as my reads are subject to change and I'll choose players who are most likely to be town. While at first glance it's tempting on day 1 to bring along people who I would like to see "cleared" by the mechanic, I do not think it's optimal. Good players who rolled town will clear themselves and/or get shot anyway and even if the mission succeeds it doesn't mean every player we brought along is cleared.

We should attempt to have some sort of consensus of likely party leaders by the end of first 24 hours or so to allow them to start diverting more attention to choosing their teams.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 06:28 GMT
#510
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 06:59 GMT
#519
Sandro who do you think is [most likely to be] town so far?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 08:01 GMT
#533
All this talk about treating this game like Resistance is misguided or malicious, at least if the implication is that the game is only about looking for townies. Resistance is a game with no roles, transparent mechanics, no flips, clear goal and every day you gain information that isn't particularly subject to manipulation. In this game there is some sort of mafia NK mechanic, hitpoint mechanic, likely a lot of roles and town can even win by eliminating all the mafia. This suggests that there is a lot of KP in the game and it is not limited to just mafia. Moreover, I think the more mafia are left alive when Lavos is summoned, the harder it is for town to win.

The point being, there is little reason for us not to also be looking for mafia in the thread. Mafia have relatively easy time blending in if all they have to do is pretend to be looking for townies or even worse every single day just look for the best party leader. Identifying likely mafia will also give our blues something to work on.

So, while it's fine that we early on discuss about who is likely to be town or who would be the good leader, this shouldn't last and the game should be played quite like a normal mafia game. Town hunting can be mostly restricted to your spreadsheets unless you are trying to convince the likely party leader to include someone on the team.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 08:15 GMT
#544
On November 21 2012 17:06 sandroba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 17:01 syllogism wrote:
All this talk about treating this game like Resistance is misguided or malicious, at least if the implication is that the game is only about looking for townies. Resistance is a game with no roles, transparent mechanics, no flips, clear goal and every day you gain information that isn't particularly subject to manipulation. In this game there is some sort of mafia NK mechanic, hitpoint mechanic, likely a lot of roles and town can even win by eliminating all the mafia. This suggests that there is a lot of KP in the game and it is not limited to just mafia. Moreover, I think the more mafia are left alive when Lavos is summoned, the harder it is for town to win.

The point being, there is little reason for us not to also be looking for mafia in the thread. Mafia have relatively easy time blending in if all they have to do is pretend to be looking for townies or even worse every single day just look for the best party leader. Identifying likely mafia will also give our blues something to work on.

So, while it's fine that we early on discuss about who is likely to be town or who would be the good leader, this shouldn't last and the game should be played quite like a normal mafia game. Town hunting can be mostly restricted to your spreadsheets unless you are trying to convince the likely party leader to include someone on the team.

I predict it will be harder for us to find scum with no lynch voting. I think the best bet at least for d1 is to concentrate in finding a team that will succeed in the mission and let us learn more about the game mechanics.

Really? What do you expect to learn about game mechanics after day 1 and how do you think will that impact our play? While mafia has easier time bussing their team mates in this format, they still do not want town to start treating some of their players are likely mafia. If there we allow players to just look for townies and all the discussion revolves around that, it is going to be more difficult to identify mafia, which can also make it more difficult to identify townies, at least for a lot of players. Lynch mechanic or not, mafia still has to fake their mafia reads or bus and they would rather not do either. Discussions relating as to who people think are mafia produce a lot more useful information.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 08:33 GMT
#555
But getting a team together is not a collective effort; players only have to identify one likely townie who is also likely capable of identifying 3 additional ones. If I was a party leader, I wouldn't pay much attention to who most people think are town. As such I suppose it can be argued the possible party leaders should devote more time on town hunting, but everyone else should mostly just justify their party leader vote and spend the rest of their efforts on finding mafia.

Do you agree that it's easier to get reads if people post and explain their mafia reads than if they only talk about who they find to likely be town?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 08:37 GMT
#557
Sandro is dienosore the "dio" person you were talking about or was that a reference to Djo?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 08:46 GMT
#562
I'm not sure what I think of him (dienosore) at this point, but he seems like the kind of person us two wouldn't have a confident read early on, so I'm surprised that you would name him. Overall I find your activity and early attitude promising, but I'm not as confident as I would like about your alignment so far.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 12:09 GMT
#597
On November 21 2012 18:13 Keirathi wrote:
Syllogism/sandroba:

You guys have ignored us, but what do you think of Toads reasoning for me being scum? Do you think I'm scum?

What about Deinos 2 scum reads and 2 town reads? Agree or disagree with any of them?

I think his reasoning is weak and your subsequent posts in which you attract more attention towards the fact that someone thinks you are mafia are fairly towny. I do not like your marv or no "vet" as a leader strategy at all, however.

On November 21 2012 18:34 risk.nuke wrote:
Hi, I'd proposed myself to lead the party since I feel I possess the essential quality's we'd want for a mission leader. But I feel I'm late to sign myself up and as it stands there already is already a candidate I want to support. As it stands right now I want Sandroba for our first party leader.

No disrespect to marv who's one of the best scumhunters I know on these forums but a scumhunter isn't what we need today.

I'm not sure how missions are going to work but to prepare for anything these quality's are what we seak.
We need a player who's smart, adaptable to new situations and capable of finding the optimal play.
We need a player who's good at analysing behaviour and who's good at finding townies.

This is Sandroba in a nutshell. I've seen firsthand how he think and he is one of the few people I've met I trust can identify the correct play in a new situation. In SS mafia he created and executed the plan that dismantled the mafiateam in a day. Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination.

Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays.
##Vote: Sandroba


Perhaps I'm reading too much into this as being transparent when justifying your party leader vote is good, but this seems overly explanatory. I don't understand what's the point of mentioning that you were going to propose yourself nor why there was a need to mention marv at all (as a side note, I'm surprised that you hold him in this high regard; it's not something I'm used to hearing from you). One motive for saying that you intended to propose yourself could be that townies are "expected" to nominate themselves.

The focus of the post is less on what Sandroba has done in this game and more on his general strengths. I'm used to a more direct risk nuke. I agree with your suspicions on acrofales, however.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 12:21 GMT
#600
Adam so far you haven't expressed a very few opinions or said anything otherwise helpful. You say Keirathi might be your number two choice for the party leader. Do you have confidence in his ability to choose 3 townies today? You also assert that there is no way of checking if mafia reads are right other than sending them on a mission; is this your honest assessment of how you expect the game to work?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 12:27 GMT
#603
On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?

Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.

Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach?

What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 12:47 GMT
#613
On November 21 2012 21:32 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 21:27 syllogism wrote:
On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?

Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.

Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach?

What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else.

First time you engaged in a conversation was with Sandro. For you that is not a conversation, as you and Sandro can mindread each other.

This is the second conversation you are engaging in. Everything else has been a running commentary.

Do you think I'm more or less likely to have a conversation with a player who can "mindread" me if I'm mafia? So far your point of view on things has not appeared honest to me or at the very least your analysis isn't on the level I would expect if you are town. Also this is not the second conversation.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 13:19 GMT
#621
On November 21 2012 22:03 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 21:47 syllogism wrote:
On November 21 2012 21:32 Acrofales wrote:
On November 21 2012 21:27 syllogism wrote:
On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote:
@syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list?

Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away.

Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach?

What are you talking about? I'm absolutely hunting for mafia. This is how you do it; by engaging in conversations and asking for clarifications and opinions. Making cases is for convincing everyone else.

First time you engaged in a conversation was with Sandro. For you that is not a conversation, as you and Sandro can mindread each other.

This is the second conversation you are engaging in. Everything else has been a running commentary.

Do you think I'm more or less likely to have a conversation with a player who can "mindread" me if I'm mafia? So far your point of view on things has not appeared honest to me or at the very least your analysis isn't on the level I would expect if you are town. Also this is not the second conversation.

I think that that is irrelevant and pointless wifom, because if one of you is scum and the other isn't, you would be dead scared of each other in any case and try to act normally. I think it is fairly normal for you and sandro to have a conversation and it will not affect his ability to mindread you one way or another.

However, if you are asking me if I think you are scum, then no, I don't. I am still rather null on you. However, there are things in your play that make me suspicious. Firstly, the things Kita just pointed out, and secondly because I feel you are making alot of your "scumhunting" while actually it amounts to very little.

As for my honesty, at least I'm not fakeclaiming mason (yet).


This is a really pointless and irrelevant topic, but it would serve you well to stop using the term WIFOM and if you are town you should not attempt to downplay things that a person of one alignment is clearly more likely to do. That is all that mafia is, determining what is more likely. You can reduce anything to a level where you can claim it's "wifom" when in fact it is evidence of someone's alignment. WIFOM is a meaningless term used by lazy players, people who do not understand mafia or mafia aligned players who want to wave away evidence of someone being town.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 13:26 GMT
#626
On November 21 2012 21:48 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible


Quite the resolve on that campaign.

Lazy syllo says to me scum syllo. You trust your ability to determine sandro's alignment in 48 hours over your ability to identify 3 town players out of the remaining 23? If you were serious of being elected, why wouldn't you simply include him in your party, while remaining a leader?

I believe we have had this conversation before in another game, perhaps even pypi, where I supported mig. In addition I supported sandroba's election in that 80+ player game and I believe you also played in that. I don't understand what your point even here is, are you suggesting that I'm mafia and don't care if town sandroba is elected or that we are both mafia?
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 13:37 GMT
#633
It was a less nuanced way of categorizing players who use the term, the intend being to drive home a point. In reality it is a combination of things and disagreeing with me on the usage of the term doesn't necessarily make someone bad at mafia (but still wrong on this subject). I can not tell what your motive for using it in this case is and I do not think it is possible to tell, so it is irrelevant.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 13:45 GMT
#635
Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 13:54 GMT
#647
Purely based on the strength of my reads, not giving value to things such as the advantage of "clearing" players who are less likely to get shot. However, right now it seems likely that my team would not include many, if any, "veterans".
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