EPTChrono Trigger Mafia
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 19 2012 10:24 Promethelax wrote: edit: Before we start I'd like to say that I am trying to develop a new meta, my old one (easily witness-able in the recently completed ACME) takes too much time which I just don't have in my life right now. I'll do my best to play well though. My usual pre-game warning: I work overnights on the weekends, I won't be here for long stretches of the weekend due to that. I'd also like to announce that I plan to disappear for extended periods of time (assuming I role mafia)  | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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The success of these missions appear to carry significant weight and it's something I'd want direct control over. A successful day one will make each of the following days that much easier. I think these mechanics play to my strengths, which is identifying pro-town players early on. I promise to be active and open and not disappear once elected *shakes fist at wiggles* As acro says, this game could turn out really similar to resistance. I rolled scum in the last resistance game so you have something to compare my play to. A successful day one can snowball the game and force the mafia team to make a play later on. Due to the way the events work, its even more important than normal to establish yourself as pro-town early on. If you are town and lurk, you're likely not going to be selected, directly impacting our chances of success. Keep in mind posting a lot doesn't translate to being pro-town. Since I prefer to know who we are dealing with, I'm going to be a jerk and ask the smurfs to claim their identity (that's what you get for not hiding it well!). You have an advantage by hiding your posting tendencies. Nothing to hide, right? Acro, your plan to announce who you would bring along without seeing their posts first is silly. We gain nothing from bringing along vets in our party. We are looking for players that are clearly pro-town. Plus in 30+ games I've never won a mayoral election. Give me the pity vote! <3 | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:00 marvellosity wrote: My posting is clearly pro-town already and so you won't be getting my vote, kita. My bad, I should have clarified that your posting needs to be pro-town AND you actually have a town alignment :p On November 21 2012 11:01 Promethelax wrote: I see Acro has sniped me in terms of the idea of any potential leader posting their core group. Has anyone played in a similar set-up before? Or does anyone have the link to Resistance? I haven't read it. Resistance 1 Resistance 2 On November 21 2012 11:01 Promethelax wrote: I'm curious if putting one player who seems like a liability (one of the guys known for trolling or one of the smurfs) onto the team so that we can get a read on them from their actions makes sense? It seems like we won't have lynches but knowing who scum is/is not will help town players direct any and all actions which they have and i assume making sure that non-town players not being on the quest team will be a good thing for us as the OP specifies that they can make it more difficult to achieve our objectives. Putting three town players and one liability potentially results in a passed mission, give them a false reading. If we're going to use the event mechanic for scum hunting it would make more sense to throw 4 anti-town players at it. Although I disagree with this and think we should go for a town team every time until we know the consequences. On November 21 2012 11:03 Acrofales wrote: How do you know you don't gain anything from bringing vets. It's greymist and I am expecting minigames, unconfirmed masons and other shenanigans. Having a player like kush or adam there is NOT a good idea, even if they are town. I know that the vets can be the hardest players to read and bringing them along over a different player that is showing good intentions shouldn't be a priority for some hypothetical situation. That's not to say a vet shouldn't be selected if they are clearly town. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:12 marvellosity wrote: Probably some mix of town reads and probable utility (if someone is clever, derp) is the right way of choosing teams. Like if someone is clearly town but an idiot then I wouldn't invite them into my hypothetical party. I disagree, I think someone being clearly town should take priority over everything else, even if they aren't the most reliable of players. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:19 Hapahauli wrote: So you want to form a party of people you and three "obviously town but inexperienced" players you are free to manipulate? Thanks but no thanks. I don't see any problem with selecting inexperienced players if they are obviously town. It's the town you would have to manipulate. As far as I can tell, there isn't any indication the events would involve player interaction. | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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We also have the option as town to enforce an additional party member selection vote. This limits the power of a single player, but it makes it easier for the mafia to sneak in one of their own in the 3rd of 4th slot. I think I'd rather put faith in the elected leader, to avoid the manipulation, assuming myself or my candidate of choice is elected. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:59 Acrofales wrote: You're really hanging this on the assumption that scum doesn't have safe claims. In general, I hate mass claims, because they break the game AND have a large chance to backfire. Who said I was suggesting a mass claim? I'm saying we could use a single name claim, only after we identify that the alignments in this game line up with the alignments in the video game. The mafia likely does have safe claims, but if we select a character at random, the odds are in our favor. The rewards certainly outweigh the risks in my opinion. | ||
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kitaman27
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I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision? Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough. | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote: Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible Quite the resolve on that campaign. Lazy syllo says to me scum syllo. You trust your ability to determine sandro's alignment in 48 hours over your ability to identify 3 town players out of the remaining 23? If you were serious of being elected, why wouldn't you simply include him in your party, while remaining a leader? | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 22 2012 07:41 marvellosity wrote: Kita is practically ruling himself out of the running by having such long stretches without posting. As he notes himself it's similar to a mayoral election and you need your mayor being around and interacting with town, which he is failing to do. THEY'RE BRINGING OUT THE ATTACK ADDS! I WISH IT DIDN'T HAVE TO COME TO THIS BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE (AND MY FLAMES BURN BLACK) The reason I have been absent is because I have been at work all day like a hard working leader should be. Thankfully I have the next two days off! However, do you know who aren't very thankful? Marv, syllo, and sandroba! ![[image loading]](http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/17971151/2/stock-illustration-17971151-thanksgiving-day-in-america.jpg) I am deeply saddened to report to you all that these three individuals are suspected of not planning to celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow! There are even rumors that syllo is a VEGETARIAN who enjoys spending the day watching SOCCER! Do you really want to elect a terrorist as your leader? Vote for a true leader. Vote Kita! Paid for by the Kavdragon Sucks Party More to come. Stay tuned! | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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On November 22 2012 10:36 sandroba wrote: @kita sup. Any reason why you don't like me as a candidate? It's fair to assume that given your inactivity you being elected is a long shot like it or not. Isn't it time you read the thread a throw your support behind someone you think is town and has a shot? I haven't been inactive and acquiring 4-5 votes to take the lead is hardly a long shot. I've hardly been inactive, my posts are just less spread out. Don't infer that I haven't read the thread because that's untrue. I've been working on several posts the past hour or two. As for my opinion of you, I haven't reread your filter yet. From what I recall, your posts have been logical and reasonable, but that hardly means you must be town. On November 22 2012 10:44 Hapahauli wrote: @ Sandro Hm ok, I'll look through some of syllo's stuff and see if I agree. Also, thoughts on my thoughts on Toad? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=52#1024 @ Kita As much as I enjoy flag-waving turkey's, running a joke campaign doesn't help town here. Do you actually believe Sandro/Syllo/etc aren't good candidates? Hardly a joke campaign. Hours into the game I provided my initial thoughts, I have been at work all day, and now I have returned to elaborate on my reads after having some posts to go by. I shouldn't be punished based on my schedule. Why have I been eliminated after not having a chance to share my thoughts? I believe I'm a superior candidate to sandroba and syllo. If you remember correctly, sandroba's platform was simply a rehashed version of my proposal that players be selected by their towniness beyond all other factors. Still working on a post of reads. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
I'm working on a more concrete post about town reads, but I'm also hoping to put up my 4k post blog tonight so I'm not sure on a time table. Hopefully before I get to bed. iamperfection: His spammy one liners annoy me. I think his post in support of syllo made it look like he decided to vote for syllo and then look for a reason to justify it, rather than the other way around. marv: On November 21 2012 22:28 marvellosity wrote: I'm not interested at running for party leader atm. And it's not about gauging support, I'd probably just tell town to vote for me from the get go if I wanted it. Why don't I want it? Like syllo I've been hoping to be somewhat 'lazy'. While I will give this game my full attention like any other, partly I've come along for the ride. I don't want to dominate this game (for better or worse) like I'm capable of doing. Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet. There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game. I found this reply quite lackluster. You don't want to run for leader because you're insecure? Do you value helping out the town or not making yourself look bad more? You refer to players you hold in extreme regard, which clearly can only point to myself, yet you have been against my election from the start. Additionally, how does this being a themed game impact your ability to identify townies? This seems like quite a cop out. risk.nuke Besides the fact that he is probably scum, this jerk taunted me by pretending to be interested in hosting a newbie game and then proceeded to ignore my pms. What a scumbag move. strongandbig His opinions have been pretty vanilla thus far. I don't think his contributions have earned him a spot yet. kushm4sta I'm always weary of an erratic player that is behaving himself. | ||
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kitaman27
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From a game design perspective, the mafia team has to have certain tools that sabotage our events in order to remain balanced. Without any outside intervention, assume the town comes up with a successful group of players. There appears to be no restriction about selecting the same players, meaning the mafia team has to have some way to combat selecting the same people every time. Even if they can only eliminate a couple of the players through night hits, they are still playing from a disadvantage. I think this is something we should keep in mind going forward. On November 22 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote: I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier. While reading through the filters, I came across this post. What struck me as strange was that Keirathi insists he has a low success modifier. On what basis is he making this assumption? From my point of view, I would have no idea whether 3 was a low value or the highest value in the game. Only if I had the ability to compare my modifier with other players could I come to this conclusion. Finally, the Frog role claim may be the most important event that has taken place this game. There needs to be more discussion about it. I'll post my thoughts later tonight. | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 22 2012 11:43 Keirathi wrote: I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier. While reading through the filters, I came across this post. What struck me as strange was that Keirathi insists he has a low success modifier. On what basis is he making this assumption? From my point of view, I would have no idea whether 3 was a low value or the highest value in the game. Only if I had the ability to compare my modifier with other players could I come to this conclusion. [/QUOTE] I think you misunderstood what I was saying. iamperfection asked me if I knew my specific success modifier, and I said "well, I don't know that my success modifier is 3, but I do know that its low". It was worded poorly, but I was trying to say that I don't know specifically what my success modifier number is, only that its low.[/QUOTE] Yes it appears you are correct. Apologies. | ||
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kitaman27
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It had something to do with sandroba and how if everyone is so sure of his scum meta, why couldn't he simply act differently. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the statement, I just need to find who posted it. Thanks. | ||
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kitaman27
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Myself - You guys still have more than two options for leader  Acrofales - Acro has been quite opinionated and appears to care about the outcome of the event. I like that he tries to open the game with a plan (even if his choices were premature) and he is attempting to direct discussion. Dienosore - I'd take a Frog over a Toad by my side any day. Ignoring the first few trollish posts, I find his posts sincere. Something that caught my attention was your instance that you be the party leader, which leads me to worry that your insistence to be elected may be role related. Would you be content as a member of the party, rather than the leader? Promethelax - Maybe the weakest preference of the four, but I'm usually pretty trusting of a player that is trying to come up with a way to use the setup to benefit the town. Even though I disagree with the idea, I like the effort. Of his remaining posts, nothing has jumped out to me as something to worry about. On November 21 2012 11:01 Promethelax wrote: I'm curious if putting one player who seems like a liability (one of the guys known for trolling or one of the smurfs) onto the team so that we can get a read on them from their actions makes sense? It seems like we won't have lynches but knowing who scum is/is not will help town players direct any and all actions which they have and i assume making sure that non-town players not being on the quest team will be a good thing for us as the OP specifies that they can make it more difficult to achieve our objectives. Of course these four selections are subject to change as the game goes on. Do I really not have any votes?  | ||
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kitaman27
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It seems to me that right now most people are quite content with a sandroba or syllo election. What bothers me is that these players appear to be a package deal. Please correct me if I'm wrong sandro/syllo, but from the sounds of it you guys would be quite satisfied with each others elections and would likely include each other in your party upon election. If either of these players turn out to be a bad apple, the mafia team would have little preference between which of these players was elected. When voting for one of these two players, are you really confident enough that they are both town? Both of these players have been preaching their abilities to town hunt, but neither has been forthcoming with their party selections. Can anyone explain why I'm being shut out of the voting so far? | ||
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kitaman27
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He could be a possible leader candidate, though I don't recall if that was something he was open to. | ||
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kitaman27
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lol Marv, is your only day one objective to ensure I'm not elected? I'm honored. On November 22 2012 22:46 Acrofales wrote: Just caught this: is there something in your role that seems to indicate that alignments are different from game alignments? I for one have no reason to suspect so. Balance. If Crono, Lucca, Frog, Marle, etc. could all just claim, one day after the other then the mafia wouldn't be in a position to do anything about it. Fake claims are the alternative. On November 22 2012 15:31 Adam4167 wrote: Kitaman, I liked what you were saying early yesterday but this post, I do not like: Why are you trying to ward people away from voting for sandroba? You are fear mongering that he 'might' be turning over a new-leaf as scum and as such, shouldn't vote for him on that basis. So far, all that you've done to indicate that you think sandroba is scum is to colour his name in red (along with syllo and marv) with no other explanation. Care to go into detail about why you think he is scum? Well it wouldn't be a new leaf. I'm saying its something I've seen before playing mafia with him. The reason that I'm bringing it up is that I don't buy into so many people voting for him because he is simply easy to read. I'm not willing to call him scum yet, but I'm willing to say he isn't in my top 10 of people to choose from. On November 22 2012 23:00 Acrofales wrote: Kita, I don't like your "not taking with me" post at all. While I agree that iamperfection is a terrible choice and probably scum, your being annoyed is not a scumtell. But I'm listing people I don't want on my team. There is a difference between being scum and providing no indication that they are scum. Pushing a policy on him to exclude from teams until he improves the quality of his posts isn't a bad thing. On November 22 2012 23:00 Acrofales wrote: A joke, and a "he's scum", without an explanation. Mind expanding this read. I am so far not getting scumvibes on risk. He hasn't been support me! It hurts. Deeply. On November 22 2012 23:00 Acrofales wrote: Cautiously null. Why single out SnB of all the players you are probably cautiously null on. This just seems weird, and weird things from someone who is otherwise making a lot of sense make me suspicious. Would you want someone who is null to be on your team? He was chosen in specific in hopes of seeing him improve his contributions. Someone like Bio also could have gone here, but this list really wasn't exhaustive and my second post I felt was more important. On November 22 2012 23:00 Acrofales wrote: So all in all, this list is pretty damned weaksauce, which makes me wonder why it is here in the first place. At first my eye slipped over it and I thought, "hah, Kita is posting some good content", but on a doubletake it really is not good content at all. I myself called this post not very concrete in the intro. I'm not passing it off as good content, rather people I want to see improve if they hope to have any chance of being selected later on. On November 22 2012 23:07 Acrofales wrote: Ugh, I should probably consolidate my thoughts and questions for Kita. He is really puzzling me. Here is the next question: These thoughts never came... From his selected party, it seems obvious he believes the claim and believes Frog to be town (or a beneficial third party at least). He confirms this opinion (or the claim is the confirmation) with Dino's filter. This is somewhat in contrast to his earlier thoughts, where player characters were suspect until mod confirmation through flips. Dino was on my list before the Frog claim. Right now the two most likely scenarios are: 1) He is a town Frog, which explains why a newbie has the confidence and desire to be elected 2) Frog was the strongest mafia fake claim and they put it forward to plant a mafia in the party Right now I'm leaning towards 1, based on the rest of his posts, but that is subject to change. On November 23 2012 00:18 syllogism wrote: Yes, I might gain more votes by making my reads public. I would also gain more reads by pretending to be completely confident in my reads; I'm not. I have not finalized my team yet (right now I've 2 whom I'm likely to take and a few possibilities for the third) and may not finalize it until the end. An honest assessment as to why I'm not going to is a combination of considering it optimal play (if I get the votes), being lazy and because sometimes my town reads rely on things other players may find flimsy or the reasons are otherwise difficult to explain (tone, whether the person feels earnest). If I were mafia, there would be absolutely no reason not to make the list of people I intend to pick public. I tend to agree that revealing all your picks is subject to mafia influence. I revealed my picks to gauge a town reaction. Just to be clear, if I'm elected I'm not going to bind myself to the three individuals I mentioned earlier, although some or all will likely be included. I'm going to pick the four people that I believe give the best chance of success. Right now I'm going to be looking at syllo's sudden flip on his read on sandroba. syllo if you could provide more insight that would be helpful. | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 22 2012 16:11 Promethelax wrote: Kita may not be the best leader but he is better than Syllo/Sand (though I would vote Syllo over sand) and I hate the party you chose. I think that Kita has a chance to be party leader and has a better chance of being town than Sand or Syllo. His town reads also agree with mine. If I'm not the best leader than why are you voting for me? Who is the best leader in your opinion? You stated that you trust me based on my selected party, your own inclusion and the fact that I'm not syllo/sandroba. What is your reasoning not suspecting that I'm the mole in the party? | ||
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kitaman27
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kitaman27
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Initially, I was suspicious of your swap of opinion on sandroba considering it would be the easiest way for you to secure a victory, but the timing was consistent with sandroba's drop off, even I think there should have been little reason to trust him to begin with. That being said, I would be much more satisfied if it wasn't a run away. Poor kush. Such a shame that Magus, err I mean Marv, is a fatty. | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 23 2012 02:25 marvellosity wrote: This needs to be made clear, please read this. The ability is on PERCENTAGE HEALTH. Thus if kush has 600 max HP and I have 50 max HP, kush still dies as we both have 100% HP. From a town perspective, I'd think you would want it the other way around. Why wouldn't you brush over this fact and let the mafia team think you have tons and tons of hp if you are worried about being hit? | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 23 2012 02:32 risk.nuke wrote: Poor viscera. Another note, I don't think grey would modkill kush unless marv was town. Lets not read into this. I think its pretty clear grey modkilled kush because he suicided using an ability that had no chance of success. | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 23 2012 02:39 TheChronicler wrote: How would you have taken any damage anyways? That post by Kira seems nonsensical. I think you were misunderstanding what I'm saying. Marv wanted to make it clear that he was alive because kush misunderstood his role, not because he had 600+ hp. I'm saying that I would want the mafia team to think I'm a hard character to take out, rather than make this correction. It's nothing worth discussing any further though. lol draz, why do you do this to us -_- | ||
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On November 23 2012 03:33 Keirathi wrote: Anyways, Turkey Day time. I should be back before the deadline, but I'm not positive. Either way, I'm happy with my vote on syllo, so ta ta. Don't forget if you have any night actions to send them in with your vote too. | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 23 2012 03:54 Acrofales wrote: Kita, you still comfortable with Promethelax? The thing that would make me the most worried is how several players come out of the wood-works to discredit him for questionable reasoning. It could be the mafia team trying to plant their opposition to a scum buddy early, which is the only thing that concerns me. I still have a favorable opinion, but I might have someone in mind to replace him. On November 23 2012 04:15 syllogism wrote: Revealing the team right now or even a few hours ago would have achieved nothing as I've been pretty much inevitable for longer than that. The reasons against disclosing the team, however, still stand. I disagree syllo. Unless the town finally sees the light and elects me as their dear leader, it seems quite unlikely that you're not going to be elected. Revealing the team provides us reads on whether are not certain players are satisfied with your choices. Our opinions won't force you to change your mind, but it is possible we might point out something you didn't see. I don't see the point of withholding right now. | ||
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I've been targeted with the guessing game. If I don't properly predict the lynch result within the next 24 hours I am hit with 200 hp of damage. I guess this is one of the ways mafia can damage people? :p | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 23 2012 09:06 Adam4167 wrote: In regards to my post to kita, I think it stands fine as it is. I am trying to figure out what the hell he is doing, because he claims to want to be taken seriously, but then posts a page of 'joke' reads and then campaigns as if they're perfectly acceptable. I am trying to ascertain if he is just goofing around, and I should ignore him, or if hes intentionally posting more garbage into this thread, something I think we can do without. I had one joke post and one joke read on risk. That's like 5% of my posts, yet you've brought it up three different times. Is this really your biggest concern. I nominate Cave as an alternative to sandroba (I'm still in favor of a sandroba lynch while he continues to be afk, and likely even after he returns) On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote: I blame Acro for this post but apparently my posting is too unique it doesn't work anyway and I feel I need to explain a few things to keep Acro / S+B being murdered because they know me too well. I claim Drazerk the I prepare dishes far and wide and have learnt techniques lost in time. I have 27 1 time use abilities and 1 multiple use ability but I can't use any if I go on a mission. So far I know 2 of my abilities (THEY ARE SO GOOOOOOOD) and can gain the knowledge of 2 more each cycle (although I can technically use any ability without knowing what it does but I'm not that insane). My success modifier is 4 which is too low to justify not using either of my 2 abilities I already have. Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). Now to read what I've missed. He's clearly lying about his success modifier. It's a hidden value and he has no benchmark to lead him to believe 4 is a high number. He isn't keeping up with the thread. He's likely lying about his role and has a history of lying about his role. For whatever reason, he claims to think he would be a likely roleblock target. He has a history of never contributing in any game he has ever played in (and I mean that in the nicest of ways <3) | ||
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kitaman27
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There is also the 200 conditional dmg on me if you want to count that. | ||
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On November 24 2012 04:09 syllogism wrote: I'll give my thoughts as to who should be our lynch tomorrow. Taking a break today and not just because I'm lazy and there is no night cycle. Considering I have to submit a lynch guess tonight or else I receive a huge chunk of damage, it really would be nice if you would be able to take tomorrow off instead Also, I've been pulled into watching an awful family movie. Looks like I'll be posting in a couple hours XD | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 24 2012 04:20 Acrofales wrote: On a scale from 1 to 10, how bad for town is it if you take 200 damage? Lynching the correct person takes priority. I'll live, but I would be that much closer to being able to be picked off. Unless someone wants to claim using this ability, we should assume its coming from an anti-town source. If we can narrow down our lynch target today, it would be nice to limit what seems to be about 20% of their damage output. | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 24 2012 04:28 syllogism wrote: That's pretty annoying. When do you have to send the answer in? It doesn't sound like a mafia ability to me I have 24 hours from the last day post, so about 4.5 hours. If its not a mafia ability, then the player responsible should be claiming and explaining why they are targeting me with it. Otherwise, if they are caught with it at a later point then they should be assumed anti-town. Be back as soon as I can. | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 24 2012 07:37 marvellosity wrote: kita has seemed awfully non-urgent about finding scum given he has until like now to try to guess the right lynch for today :/ I made it pretty clear that I got got pulled into a family movie. Enemy of the State. You'd think we could at least pick something from this decade -_- I'm caught up in the thread, but it doesn't look like I'll have a fail proof decision in the next hour. Right now I'm looking at sandroba, Cave, and two other individuals. More to come. | ||
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kitaman27
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If we take a look at the three main sources of damage, we have about 800 kp. I can confirm the damage against myself and I'm quite confident that the damage against Frog would be real as he would be my priority 1 target if I were mafia. Dienosore - 445 dmg Marvellosity - 200 dmg Kita - 200 dmg (conditional) CaveJohnson - 25 dmg Clarity - 20 dmg Iamperfection - 20 dmg Acrofalls - 20 dmg Djodref - 20 dmg Based on what we've seen from the flip, Frog's hp's and my own hp, I'm willing to conclude that removing one of these sources of damage would leave the mafia night hits quite underpowered. However, there is still the damage output from Lavos to take into account. I'm conflicted, but at this point, I would guess that marv really did take a hit. Marv, I would like to know the reasoning you felt it was necessary to claim to the town that you don't have a gun? Onto Cave next. | ||
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kitaman27
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Now if I'm signing up as a smurf, why would I reveal my identity on the first day? The only reason I can come up with is if you have something to gain. From a town perspective, what do you have to gain as to claim draz? He said himself how it would not benefit the town. From a mafia perspective, you have an excuse to lie, troll, and not contribute due to his past reputation. As he is a smurf, we also don't have confirmation that this is actually draz and not just a smurf who is taking advantage of his identity. + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote: I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote: He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote: Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). On November 23 2012 05:12 CaveJohnson wrote: I'm just taking the enemy of my enemy approach with this election. Might be worth doing the same for consolidation Cave shows little interest in electing a leader on day one. He discredits syllo several times by stating that he is not running. When it becomes clear that syllo actually is running, he simply calls him a wasted vote, without elaborating. He finally decides to vote for me, while giving no indication that he has a town read on myself. Next, I'd like to look over his roleclaim: On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote: I claim Drazerk the I prepare dishes far and wide and have learnt techniques lost in time. I have 27 1 time use abilities and 1 multiple use ability but I can't use any if I go on a mission. So far I know 2 of my abilities (THEY ARE SO GOOOOOOOD) and can gain the knowledge of 2 more each cycle (although I can technically use any ability without knowing what it does but I'm not that insane). My success modifier is 4 which is too low to justify not using either of my 2 abilities I already have. First off, we know that he doesn't know his success modifier. It's a hidden value. He mistakenly sees another player reference their hypothetical modifier and pretends to know his. He claims that his success modifier is low, yet has no reference to go by. This is a lie. Besides the fact that his role sounds extremely implausible, if a post is partly a lie, there is no reason to believe anything at all. Furthermore, he references a third party character that he needs to take down. How would this fit in with the flavor of a Chef at all? Who is he hunting, the evil third party mushrooms? Now here is the part that I'm not able to put together. What is the purpose of the fake role claim? Is he just playing to his reputation of compulsive fake role claims? Is he trying to draw a hit? When marv claimed to take damage, he seems to indicate that he may have been responsible due to sort of reflective damage ability. Now this leads me to three thoughts: 1) If his first conclusion is that marv tried to hit him, is this the reason marv was the target of a roleblock? 2) If he truly can reflect damage, attempting to take a hit would fit in line with his role claim, even if lying to town is an incredibly awful way of doing so. 3) By claiming damage reflection, is he trying to discredit further attacks on himself for self preservation. Today he has been gone. He has provided no input on today's lynch. I've seen draz play like this several times as mafia and town. At the end of the game, if he's scum, he laughs at the fact that town has ignored him. If he's town, he appears amused and plays the same way the next game. I think he should be forced into a full role claim with an explanation of his entire intentions thus far. At this point, the benefits of hiding his role, does not outweigh the distraction he is causing. If he tries to give us more nonsense, he should be lynched. If he doesn't post again this cycle. he should be lynched. | ||
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kitaman27
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On November 24 2012 08:46 Acrofales wrote: Kita. Why exactly did you think this? This phrase here seems rather incongruous with all the rest of your campaign. You made some slightly disingenious remarks at Sandro about how the whole town thought they could read him, but asking what it was based on. You made a quip at Syllo's second post. About 20 hours later you come back. We get a joke post with a turkey and vegetarians, and then you say you think you're superior to Sandro and Syllo. Yet you never explain why. Even when asked why. Well I certainly wasn't going to say that I was an inferior candidate. My remarks on sandroba proved to be quite accurate. He disappears and here we have people screaming that it exactly matches his scum meta of being lazy, while we have other people that are convinced that his absence is something he would never do as scum. I'll be looking at him next most likely.. I didn't really discredit syllo, besides the fact that I'd rather have been elected at that point over him. When asked directly about syllo, I mentioned that his posts were reasonable, but I wasn't prepared to trust him either way. On November 22 2012 11:31 kitaman27 wrote: I'd also like to state a bit more setup speculation before I forget about it. From a game design perspective, the mafia team has to have certain tools that sabotage our events in order to remain balanced. Without any outside intervention, assume the town comes up with a successful group of players. There appears to be no restriction about selecting the same players, meaning the mafia team has to have some way to combat selecting the same people every time. Even if they can only eliminate a couple of the players through night hits, they are still playing from a disadvantage. I think this is something we should keep in mind going forward. While reading through the filters, I came across this post. What struck me as strange was that Keirathi insists he has a low success modifier. On what basis is he making this assumption? From my point of view, I would have no idea whether 3 was a low value or the highest value in the game. Only if I had the ability to compare my modifier with other players could I come to this conclusion. Finally, the Frog role claim may be the most important event that has taken place this game. There needs to be more discussion about it. I'll post my thoughts later tonight. I either mentioned it earlier, or just wrote it in my notebook, he never incited more discussion about the claim. Now that I look back, I would like an explanation of why Kita thought the Frog claim was so important.[/QUOTE] If you remember correctly, the idea of having one of the well known characters name claim was my idea, even if I didn't want to follow through day one. In a latter post, I mentioned that Frog would have been one of my three choices to bring along. The post questioning sandroba's meta that I asked someone to look for is what made me believe the sincerity of his posts and I also commented how his role explained his reason for running as a newer player. | ||
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On November 24 2012 09:12 marvellosity wrote: Your whole piece on Cave brings up valid points but boils down to: lynch the trolly guy if he continues to troll, even though it's still pretty much a coinflip at this stage. Are you in favor of a truthful role claim from him, with the implication that we lynch him if things don't add up? We wouldn't be able to verify his claim, but it gives us a more informed decision, which outweighs the drawback in my opinion. | ||
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On November 24 2012 10:28 CaveJohnson wrote: Kita - Spicy jerky is the equivalent of the Invoker ability betrayal its one of four abilities I know the actual effect of, I won't know any more until tomorrow. (Yes I used it last night hence why I asked marv if he attacked me) I understand that I cause mayhem and distractions and that is why I vanished today, in order to allow discussion that wasn't just on me. To make things clear, you're sticking with the story that you know your sucess modifier? You're sticking with your story that you are a chef who knows about a third party character? I want the exact description of all your roles or I'm not going to be satisfied. If you truly care about not causing a distraction, list everything you know, your intentions, and your suspects today. If you're going to come up with excuses and disappear, you're only making things worse. | ||
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On November 24 2012 10:52 CaveJohnson wrote: I know someone is after one of my foods (I don't know which and I don't know if they are third party its just likely to me) I have the dota equivalent to the following - Lightning shield, Firestorm and Chaos meteor. My intention is to survive to end game and win with town. That is the same as anyone else who is town... I may have extra abilities to do it but I don't know how often I'll gain preventive abilities. Suspect wise I lean TC but I'm interesting in prom. You know you are never going to be happy with me though. So I'm not really sure what exactly you are looking for. So let me get this straight. You knew a person was after your food, so in order to increase your chances of survival, you decide to role claim that you are the chef? Could you walk me through your thought process? To understand correctly, you are claiming third party, but seek to work with town to achieve your objectives? | ||
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From my experience, not having a scum candidate is a sub-par strategy. I'm not completely sold on syllo's innocence yet. It is quite possible that toad's presence in the party would override any mafia presence, although I liked his party selection and the success of the first event gives me no reason to go after syllo at the moment. sandroba's party selection was solid, even though we don't know if it would have mattered with his presence. What puzzles me the most is that sandroba claims to have taken a hit of 125 damage. If its town damage, it should be claimed. From a mafia perspective, I'd want to take out Frog in one hit to not have to worry about a cleared pro-town presence on day two, in addition to an additional round of night actions, and possible healing effects. Spreading out the damage seems suboptimal. Based on the flip, it seems the mafia would know that 400ish damage wouldn't be enough to take him out. Why would they hit sandroba, someone who has fallen out of favor in town's eyes, over syllo? Perhaps they were banking on a failed event one, but even so, I'd hit syllo over sandro if I'm not going to stack everything on a single player. I'll have to come back to this as there are a few other players I'd like to look at first before making a final decision. | ||
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On November 24 2012 12:28 Keirathi wrote: @kita: Completely neglecting the possibility of third party KP? Third party players usually go for mafia sniping early on or target threats. Yes, its a possibility though. | ||
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On November 21 2012 18:34 risk.nuke wrote: Hi, I'd proposed myself to lead the party since I feel I possess the essential quality's we'd want for a mission leader. But I feel I'm late to sign myself up and as it stands there already is already a candidate I want to support. As it stands right now I want Sandroba for our first party leader. No disrespect to marv who's one of the best scumhunters I know on these forums but a scumhunter isn't what we need today. I'm not sure how missions are going to work but to prepare for anything these quality's are what we seak. We need a player who's smart, adaptable to new situations and capable of finding the optimal play. We need a player who's good at analysing behaviour and who's good at finding townies. This is Sandroba in a nutshell. I've seen firsthand how he think and he is one of the few people I've met I trust can identify the correct play in a new situation. In SS mafia he created and executed the plan that dismantled the mafiateam in a day. Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination. Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays. ##Vote: Sandroba The thing that bothers me the most about this post is how much resolve nuke has that sandroba is the right man for the job. He doesn't question whether or not sandroba is actually town, which is the first thing I'd be looking for. "Furthermore from my experience Sandroba's greatest strength is finding townies and then scum by process of elimination." This quote is what I found the most off. When I think of sandroba, I think of a good late game scumhunter. What makes him think that sandroba is a great town hunter, compared to anyone else? It's as if he is coming up with a reason that is perfect for the job to justify his vote. On November 21 2012 23:27 risk.nuke wrote: No I read your arguments, but they sounded inadequate and non thought through. What really rubbed me the wrong way was your disregard for individual alignment amongst your list. Right now I feel you didn't care, you just wanted an elite team to go under the pretext that they would be best equipped. You purposefully ignored or didn't consider the risks of a team like that and I really don't like that. At a later point, nuke attacks arco for his team selection based on experience instead of alignment. This appears to be exactly what he had based his own leader selection upon. Throughout nuke's filter, he is asking tons of questions, but not providing any opinions of his own. This is something I find myself doing quite often as scum. Towards the end of the day, after sandroba goes afk, he switches his support to goodkarma. Rather than convincing others that this is the best route, he is more concerned with his own personal selection. He lists two people as town reads, but provides no real reasoning and shows little effort to attempt to get them added to the party. Today he has voted sandroba on the basis of inactivity. He has not contributed much on day two and hasn't provided any alternate scum reads. He is also not very aggressive, which is something I'm used to seeing when he is town. I have one other person I'd like to bring up, but it will probably have to wait until morning. I'll choose my prefered lynch candidate after that. | ||
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On November 25 2012 00:33 marvellosity wrote: you can't be serious. He hasn't taken a stance other than to say he doesn't mind lynching him, which is incredibly weak. On November 24 2012 23:40 marvellosity wrote: I also need to work out if I'm actually opposed to sandroba's lynch, or if I'm just more in favour of a kita lynch. Right, because you are clearly show much more resolve. At least I've provided reasoning why I am suspicious of Cave and nuke. I said I would return with a lynch preference once I finished rereading certain filters. You've been opposing me since my first post in the game. As for the troll post, it was one out of 50 posts. If you'd actually gone to look back to see my troll scum games, I was spending half the game pushing a silly mafia report card, taunting chaoser with fake tracker results and bomberman keywords, or posting entirely in lyrics. You have no right to call me a troll this game. In fact, I'm starting to get pretty annoyed how often my name is being brought up without any reasoning. It's always "I'm going to start looking into Kita" and then when they can't come up with a scum conclusion it gets dropped. I've been called useless, which is probably what upsets me the most, considering I've probably put in the most effort this cycle with the exception of maybe a couple individuals. | ||
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Oh really? So now I'm scummy? Funny because before I brought you up, you've never mentioned me. Strange considering I was one of the three main candidates yesterday, yet you completely ignored me. On November 24 2012 20:43 risk.nuke wrote: If you want opinions from me you're free to ask me for them and I may or may not give you an answer, but if you don't I'll be damned if I'll accept that you show up later accusing me of not sharing opinions when all game you've not given a fuck about them. No need to get worked up. I know I mentioned how I'm used to seeing you aggressive, but it doesn't really count if it comes after I mention it. Why should I have to ask for your opinions? Why not give them yourself and then push your thoughts on people once you do post them? I started disliking Sandroba when Sandroba stopped acting like a townie. If you think that's suspicious you need to learn how to play this game. Furthermore the reason I'm voting sandroba is not inactivity and if you don't think he's scummy I want to hear concrete reasons why from you. | ||
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On November 25 2012 00:26 Acrofales wrote: Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. If Cave should be lynched, when is the best time to do so? Is he going to suddenly provide a page long post of his suspicions in the coming days that's going to give us insight into his alignment? Is the endgame the best time to take care of him when we're battling Lavos? On day three or four, would you rather have more information to go by for Cave or another player? On November 25 2012 01:05 marvellosity wrote: kita, why do you want to lynch Cave? Isn't he basically a policy lynch? Out of the players that you have commented on, Cave appears to be one of your strongest scumreads. Has your opinion changed? I guess it depends what you classify a policy lynch as. If a player gets caught lying and is anti-town the entire game, is it following a policy lynch or is it lynching a player because they are showing scummy traits? | ||
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On November 24 2012 17:22 Promethelax wrote: Sandroba: please claim why you targeted Syllo with your ability last nigth This is a really important post. In any game I would host or any game that I can recall playing, a player who is roleblocked does not return any results to tracking abilities. As sandroba insists he targeted syllo, but was roleblocked, either one of these two players is lying or prom really needs to clarify his role. | ||
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On November 25 2012 01:19 marvellosity wrote: I abandoned my scumread on Cave in favour of a wtf-read upon learning it's Drazerk the madmen. As you know Drazerk lies and is anti-town all the time regardless of his alignment. Does this not make it a policy lynch? Perhaps, but I still view him as anti-town, as oppossed to a policy lynch on a player like BM, simply due to the fact that he is BM. I usually don't advocate lynching liars that I can see some benefit from, such as GM's fake medic claim in team melee, but I'm not seeing how drazerk's claim benefits the town or makes any sense. How do you recommend we deal with him? Ignore him and save him for last? What is your opinion on nuke? | ||
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On November 25 2012 01:42 marvellosity wrote: I'm not sure about nuke right now. He seems somewhat invested but not enough to make me want to call him town. Just a note on your case, you said he wasn't worried day 1 when voting for sandroba whether he was town, but he had said when he did so "Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays." which at least indicates a read of some sort. Regarding Cave: perhaps he can be roleblocked and vigged at some point, maybe he can be lynched later. But is it seriously your opinion that he has the highest chance of flipping scum today? It's the fact that you are considering this that seems so subpar from you (sorry if you feel insulted by this). It feels like the easy way out on a lynch, and that does not feel like your town play I read from LV/Storm at all. You do realize that my entire focus in Storm was pushing a "policy" lynch on RoL due to his absence right? He lived three cycles longer than he should have -_- Anyways, there are a couple more people I want to bring up, then I'll decide on a preferred candidate. Brb. | ||
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On November 25 2012 01:49 marvellosity wrote: Don't bullshit me, please. You are not voting for sandroba nor have you given indications that is where you vote will end up. lol that's not my post. It got copied into mine from a quote copy/paste -_- @Toad, no I haven't decided yet. I have one more group of people I want to look into first. | ||
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On November 25 2012 01:57 kitaman27 wrote: lol that's not my post. It got copied into mine from a quote copy/paste -_- @Toad, no I haven't decided yet. I have one more group of people I want to look into first. Oh I misread that. I did submit a pick, but I probably won't reveal who until afterwards. | ||
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On November 25 2012 02:01 marvellosity wrote: what toad? kita will have guessed the lynch, but he's putting on a show for us deciding who he wants to lynch with his vote... Right, I'm clearly spending my afternoon looking through filters to entertain you all. It has nothing to do with wanting to make the correct decision. | ||
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On November 25 2012 02:13 Dienosore wrote: HOWEVER, I remember kita saying that if he guesses wrong, he will die. For a towny whose head is on the chopping block, he seems rather content with just taking his pick to the grave with him and not trying to survive. You misread. If I guess wrong I do not die. | ||
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The thing that stands out to me from reading his filter is that he focuses on commenting on safe topics. He discourages setup speculation, he asks about marv's irrelevant color scheme (multiple times), and he's asking a bunch of questions, similar to nuke. On November 24 2012 06:43 Hopeless1der wrote: you mean you'd lynch for reasons OTHER than being scum? ##Vote: TheChronicler With his post on his vote today, he jumps on what I consider to be a "gotchya" quote. There is little support behind his vote and it looks as if he is looking for a place to put his vote, rather than push his scum reads. On November 24 2012 07:12 Hopeless1der wrote: My problem with sandro's lynch is that I don't think he is scum. My problem with your reasoning to lynch him is that they aren't centered around him being scum. In his defense of sandorba, he provides a town read. I honestly don't see what would lead him to that conclusion unless he has additional knowledge. From my perspective, sandroba could be either afk lazy mafia or null based on the fact that he isn't around. I really feel like there is one piece of information that we need before deciding on the lynch. Prom claims some type of tracking ability on sandro. Where are you prom and what is your role description? Does the fact that you got a result mean that sandroba was lying about his roleblock? | ||
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The purpose of my candidacy was quite clear; To get elected and to get my preferred team chosen. I provided my list of people I would bring along, explained my thought process, and then attempted to get syllo to reveal his team so I could provide input. As for my scum reads, my initial scum post was 24 hours into the game. It was basically the people I didn't want to come along under any circumstances due to their play. The focus on day one was town hunting, which is what I also focused on. Today I think I've been quite open with my reads. I explained why Cave has to die, I explained why I am on the fence about sandroba, I explained why I have a scum read on nuke (which you don't even bring up). You mention that I haven't been drawing on past games with my drazerk case. I read through pokemafia and aperture yesterday and steamship/one of the normal games today. I could bring up a bunch of examples of how he fake claims and posts nonsense, but that's common knowledge. I am well aware of the fact that he has a history of doing this as town. To me, the difference comes down to motivation. At the current point, I don't see how his post benefits town, rather than personal amusement. He has responded a couple times to my questions and completely dropped off the map. The thing that you are completely overlooking is how open I am being. Every game as town, my number one goal is to share my thought process and hope that other people are seeing the same things. Why do you ignore the 200 damage that I've been targeted with in your case. Do you think this is a town ability or that I'm lying about it? @whoever asked me to reveal my guessing game pick, I picked the player I thought most likely to get lynched. At the point where I had to submit it, I wasn't sure who I'd be pushing and that seemed like the most logical choice. @Acro, I currently have the players in the game ranked and I have TheChronicler in the top 10 for likely scum suspects due to his reactionary playstyle and his focus on his himself. I've devoted my time elsewhere however so I've only read his filter once. | ||
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On November 25 2012 04:01 marvellosity wrote: The thing is, kita, we're like 4 hours from lynch and yet you've never actually pushed to get anyone lynched. I think I've made it quite clear that I would be in favor of a cave, sandroba, or nuke lynch. This becomes only sandroba if prom ever returns to reveal his night interactions. Hope I'm leaning scum, but I don't think there is enough to go by yet. @nuke, again you return to only defend yourself. You brought up that I am scummy. If so, then why are we just learning this now? Who are you going after right now? On November 25 2012 04:08 Dienosore wrote: Ok well, I'll be your first supporter then  ##Vote: GoodKarma I wouldn't want to lynch for GoodKarma today. He has been active enough and seems to have attempted to put a case together on my, but mid way through, realized that his read might not have been as clear as he thought. As mafia, you generally tend to pick your target and push them, regardless of if there is enough evidence because whoever you choose, there isn't going to be any legit proof. | ||
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On November 25 2012 04:10 TheChronicler wrote: Why do you feel this way? I've been paying attention to you and you were one of my strongest town reads until you just started helping Marv get off his failed case. "Failed case"? Do you have knowledge of my alignment? | ||
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On November 25 2012 04:18 TheChronicler wrote: Lol. Failed case = alignment confirmed since when? I must have misunderstood then. You're calling his case failed because you think its bad? | ||
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On November 25 2012 04:15 marvellosity wrote: there is a massive difference between being 'in favour' of a lynch and pushing a lynch candidate. You are 'in favour' of a sandroba lynch yet you say you are on the fence. You are 'in favour' of nuke yet you do not push him. You are 'in favour' of a Cave lynch yet you have not in any way demonstrated how his play makes him scum rather than just a troll. Silly Brit spells favor wrong I am on the fence on sandroba. I don't see how you couldn't be considering how little content he has given us. However, due to my thoughts about the claimed kp and roleblock and his disinterest, yes I would be fine with seeing him lynched. I don't see how you can criticize me for my position, when you're in the exact same spot. I've brought up my case against nuke, explained why his response is inadequate, and asked you to take a look at my case. I considered voting for him, but there is still the prom thing I'd like to hear back on. Cave is getting a lot of push back, which shouldn't be happening when he goes incognito after gaining the spotlight. I shot him last night. I received no damage in return. His story about trying to bring out the chef is nonsense. Furthermore, he was protected last night. He received only half damage from my shot. Either he has a defensive role, which doesn't fit in with his reflective damage claim or another player is protecting him, which seems ludicrous unless he was scum. | ||
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On November 25 2012 04:32 marvellosity wrote: Your shot was only worth 50 HP? Do you have multiple? Not saying. | ||
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On November 25 2012 04:30 marvellosity wrote: Interesting. I will have to cogitate because my first inclination is to believe this. Where do you stand with Cave now. Do you still see him as null and someone who should be left alone? | ||
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I suggest a full role claim from him upon his return. Still quite annoyed that prom hasn't showed up. | ||
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On November 25 2012 05:44 Acrofales wrote: I am so far not seeing the scum in Prom. However, I am not seeing the town in Prom either, and that alone is causing me to be very cautious with him. His absence after that claim, though, bugs me too. I still have a town read on prom. As for toad, I'm haven't looked into him and I just started a game of LoL. I'll reread his filter afterwards, though I probably wouldn't lynch him today. | ||
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Are people willing to switch? | ||
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I took 50 damage last night. I picked sandroba from my guessing game and avoided the damage. I'm also part of a fun new game, which I won't reveal yet -_- Considering Sandroba never returned, I think we should be looking for players that show signs of frustration towards his absence. On November 25 2012 09:36 marvellosity wrote: I'm basically a medic type role. I reduce incoming HP by half on the target player (or in 600 AD, 2 players). So Cave trolls it up to attract kp, syllo is bussed with cave, and syllo takes my hit, while cave gets protected. | ||
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On November 25 2012 09:42 Promethelax wrote: the roleblocks buddy, the roleblocks. Neither of those things went through. Ah guess so. So there is a second 50% damage medic running around, possibly on the mafia team? Also, I guess it does make sense to reveal the mechanics for this cycle's game. If hapahauli, oatsmaster, or phagga vote for me, I have to choose between damaging them for a small amount or myself for a large amount. | ||
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On November 25 2012 10:32 TheChronicler wrote: 200 gold Popcorn You target 2 players. You will be told if they are the same alignment or different. Night Results: toadesstern and sandroba, same. Dieno in my opinion would be the best person to elect leader. He was the target of most of the damage and makes the most sense to lead this mission. The fact that you guys don't trust his abilities is irrelevant. We want a townie as leader and as town, we will come up with the best party for him to select. As for who those should be, I'll come up with a list of my preference tomorrow. | ||
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On November 25 2012 10:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Kita wants a puppet leader. I do not agree with Kita. Scum could convince Dieno to vote them and there is no onus on the party leader to find out who is town. What makes you think any other person isn't less open to manipulation? Don't attack his experience when he is the best choice we have right now. Your puppet accusation is nonsense. In my opinion there are plenty of good town selections to choose from. I'll post my list tomorrow. If you think I'm manipulating him, you will have you chance to attack my choices, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be selecting our best option. | ||
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Dienosore - Target of the bulk of the day one kp, sucessful on day one. Oats - Successful on day one, role matches the era, claims to have bused sandroba and syllo, which explains the damage that wasn't making sense to me on sandroba. Kitaman27 - I was the first person to oppose sandroba's election. I brought up my experience with sandroba in a previous election game to show how he can change his scum meta when he has something he wants. When syllo and sandroba were intent on bringing each other along, I brought up how the mafia would be content with either selection. I've been the target of 3 different anti-town roles. There was some amount of push to get me lynched yesterday with sandroba on the block. Prom - After the day post, he votes sandroba right off the bat, which matches up with the knowledge he would have that sandroba visited syllo. While his role claim came later in the cycle when sandroba was going to likely be lynched, it probably sealed his fate. As far as I can tell, his mass roleblock role was only one use. If this is the case, I disagree with syllo's assessment that the role would be overpowered for town. Prom, if this isn't the case, please claim. I don't think Marv should be selected. We know that he visited syllo, but we don't have a confirmation of his healing role. Yesterday, he came out looking quite poor leading the opposition lynch on myself, while switching to sandroba only when it was clear he wasn't returning. I don't see how he is considered one of the top four players in terms of towniness so far this game. | ||
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On November 26 2012 08:05 Clarity_nl wrote: The moment you try to explain why you're towny you're in major wifom territory. I think prom is an odd choice. At least I'm not one of these players that's insisting that they don't want to be part of a party, which is incredibly strange. I feel I've done enough to warrant a selection. | ||
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On November 26 2012 08:07 marvellosity wrote: so what do you think of Acro, kita? (the one today who said he didn't want to be in a party) If he's town and he says he doesn't want to be selected, then we shouldn't select him. If he's scum, then we shouldn't select him. Therefore, we shouldn't select him I had a town read on him day one and didn't consider him as a lynch candidate day two. There are plenty of people I'd go after before him going forward. | ||
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On November 26 2012 08:08 Hopeless1der wrote: So, I'm trying to look into the Day 1 voters for sandroba, as he's the only confirmed scum to far. IN ORDER, the votes for sandroba went: risk.nuke Hopeless1der Acrofales kushm4sta Z-Boson Note that Z-Bo's vote somehow got counted towards syllogism. Use his filter in the voting thread, he never voted for syllo, but that's where his vote ended up. Possibly mod error, possibly someone's ability. + Show Spoiler + On November 23 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count Kitaman27 (5): CaveJohnson, Kitaman27, Promethelax,phagga, strongnbig Goodkarma (1): risknuke Hapahauli (3): Hapahauli, Iamperfection, Clarity_nl, Dienosore (1): Dienosore Syllogism (14): Toadesstern, Acrofales, BioSC, Hopeless1der, djodref, keirathi, goodkarma, Adam4167, Syllogism, Oatsmaster, Marvellosity, TheChronicler, zboson (red for emphasis), sandroba Remember that voting is mandatory. All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader:
Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked. To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought: + Show Spoiler + On November 26 2012 02:10 CaveJohnson wrote: 09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus. Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real. Something to consider with the day one vote analysis is that there was a certain point where it seemed pretty likely that Sandroba and Syllo would select each other for their party. At this point, as mafia, I would want to throw my vote on syllo, since it would make it look like I would be voting for a town candidate, while supporting a mafia objective. | ||
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On November 26 2012 22:16 marvellosity wrote: oh by the way, kita is totes 3rd party, I decided last night before I went to sleep. His games he plays are an inherent part of his role, and he may get certain rewards for succeeding them Part of his wincon is to be included on a (successful) party ta-da! oh god. I swear this happens to me every game. Arkham City: "Kita, we know that Palmar and Kurumi essentially roleclaimed third party in the thread, but we think you're the batman!" Aperature: "Oh look, Kita killed 4 scum and presented cases against three others. He has to be third party x20." Storm: "Kita is obviously a hider, but since he can't possibly be scum, he's a serial killing hider!" I'm not totes, but I can confirm that the theme of today's game involves throwing beanbags, so Norstein Bekkler is definitely the one targeting me with these abilities. I claimed a shot on Cave day one providing evidence of a role not related to the games. On November 26 2012 22:27 Acrofales wrote: @Marv: I have no clue. I agree that his guessing games seems to be role-related, rather than someone's action, but fucked if I know that that's alignment indicative. 3P does make some sense, given that he is not very interested in scumhunting. I don't know why he wants to be on a party, though (unless it's in his wincon as you say, but the games and the wincon don't seem to go together). I presented thoughts on four different individuals on day two. Just because my filter isn't 15 pages doesn't mean I have less content. Marv is the town hero for presenting a busted case against myself, we have people like nuke and cave who haven't shared thoughts on anyone, and I'm the one not interested in scum hunting? On November 26 2012 23:13 Promethelax wrote: Kita: name claim please? No. I'll admit I haven't been as active yesterday, which is mainly because I don't think the town requires much guidance this cycle. The selection of the first two individuals is pretty straight forward and I don't have a scum read on any of the proposed members, even if I'd rather see myself included. Could someone walk me through the reason for clarity? I recall that he had some night interaction with Marv's role, but his 17 page filter is too much to go through in my 20 minutes I have. Back to work -_- | ||
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No annoying sidegame for me today! :D Too bad we don't get a lynch this cycle. Party selection should be fairly straight forward today if we're able to select a combination of the previous successful parties. | ||
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Does that mean you WERE lying during your previous statement about not being hit hard? :p | ||
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On November 27 2012 11:01 Promethelax wrote: Kita: could you respond to my question about your mini games please. If you think this is someone elses ability why did it not get used last cycle? Not sure. They could have been roleblocked, used it on Marv, used it on a scumbuddy if it provided a beneficial effect, or used to to produce an effect we aren't aware of. Right now I'm trying to narrow down the possible suspects who could own this role based on previous roleclaims and roleblocks. | ||
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If I recall correctly, there is a countdown from 10 during the boss battle with Azala (the reptile queen). This might be the identity of one of the remaining scum characters. When the battle ends, Lavos falls out of the sky. It seems pretty likely that we will end up in the prehistoric cycle next. Catching up on the thread now. | ||
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On November 27 2012 21:19 syllogism wrote: One has to wonder how whoever is responsible for Kita's guessing game knew that we would have a lynch day 2. The game was worded so that I had to guess who would be elected or lynched, which is why I tend to think it was a targeted ability and not something built into the game. Acro's role claim is the most important reveal since my last post so I'll go into this first. First off, we treat Acro as an anti-town player. He claims to have a different win condition than us and refuses to reveal the details of this win condition. We cannot confirm he is third party. We only know that his alignment was outed by an investigative role and that he felt claiming third party was in his best interest. We don't have confirmation that he actually used a role check on day two. Keep in mind he revealed the role of a player who already had a scum check on him. As a survivalist, there is little reason to attract extra attention. By revealing his investigative role, he only made himself more of a threat to mafia night hits. Now look at the timing of Acro's claim: On November 28 2012 02:38 Acrofales wrote: Really? I was in danger of being lynched? I want some of what you're smoking. Votes on Acro D2: 0. People who wanted to take me to the prom D3: 2 claimed before I put an end to it. The next lynch is pretty much locked in on Toad, so I didn't have to fear that either. When exactly was I in ANY danger of being lynched?! Acro explains things well enough here. He was in no danger of being lynched this cycle. He was in no danger of being lynched next cycle. So as a third party player, why would he open himself up to two extra cycles of night actions if there is a player that is trying to kill him? Why not claim three cycles from now? Currently, I feel the town has given Acro far too much leeway with his secrets. He no longer gets to make his own decisions. We get to make them for him. Acro claims to have been provided a fake claim. He needs to reveal this fake claim now so we confirm it isn't counterclaimed and that no other player is able to use this claim later on. Acro needs to role claim. If he truly is a third party player who is being targeted by another player, I'm sure they've already put two and two together. Hiding this information isn't going to keep him safe. If he wants to cooperate with town he needs to reveal his role name, his role, and his win conditions. He no longer has the luxury of keeping these things secret after claiming for survival. If he refuses, we should assume he doesn't have town's best interest at heart. (Please don't shoot me for standing up to you :p ) For the team selection I propose: Dieno, syllo, clarity, TC I don't really feel I have to go into reasons for the first three players. Dieno hasn't had a chance for leadership yet and is requesting it, which is why I prefer him as leader over syllo. TC now has revealed two separate investigative checks that have benefited town. With Acro feeling necessary to claim, we can confirm the legitimacy of his check. I see no reason why someone like phagga or hap should be included over him. In the event that the mafia has the ability to day vig or exclude one of the players in this group of four players, we should probably have a backup, which should be iamperfection based upon his healing of marv, which hasn't been counterclaimed. | ||
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On November 28 2012 11:57 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: By that I mean, you can only pick one out of Dieno/Clarity/Oats. Not 2 of them. Sorry, I meant you, not Clarity, when typing that. Dieno, syllo, keirathi, TC | ||
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On November 28 2012 12:19 Acrofales wrote: @Kita: when someone non-3P wants me to claim I will still say no. You are at the top of my list of the reasons I didn't fully claim. Like hell I am going to claim. Of course you won't. Props for even trying to discredit my alignment in your refusal Lets start simple and reveal the fake claim you were given. | ||
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On November 28 2012 12:25 Acrofales wrote: Do you think I'm scum? I think there is no reason to trust your promise that you have the town's best interest in mind. | ||
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On November 28 2012 12:38 Acrofales wrote: Look at me caring. I don't trust that town has my best interest in mind. How about we all look out for ourselves and when town beats Lavos and I survive we can go our own ways. Deal? Who's your fake claim? | ||
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meh I guess if you're not going to cooperate, we just deal with you accordingly after Toad. | ||
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You get an anti-town check revealed on yourself, you decided to claim survivor and you that we would all be fine and dandy with it? I guess we just wait to see if the rest of the town shares my views. Gnight. | ||
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On November 28 2012 13:24 Djodref wrote: WTF ? Are you implying that you have a strong town read on Hopeless ? Given TC revelation, which we cannot trust at 100% by the way, Hopeless and Acro have different alignments. I you had told me this before Acro declined to be on the party, I would have said Acro 100% town and Hopeless 100% scum. The fact that Acro declined to be in the party shows that he has town interest in mind imo. Anti-town check on Acro ? This is bullshit imo. Errm not sure what you are saying here. He already claimed that he wasn't town. | ||
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On November 29 2012 09:26 Dienosore wrote: I really am ashamed for not officially sending in the party, but at least Keir still made it in there some how. And now we have extra info about phagga and GK Ty for the save, Djo. I still took a whopping 475 dmg though. | ||
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On November 29 2012 09:57 Promethelax wrote: funny but not useful. Kita, ideas please. Today's objectives should be: Lynch the Toad. Come up with a consensus for the second most scummy player. Put 2-3 votes on our alternate in case there is a secret pardon in play. Sort through night actions to come up with the remaining mafia team by process of elimination. Organize our town night actions for once. On November 29 2012 09:57 Promethelax wrote: How does this effect your reads on Dieno/Acro/GK/Kier? Dieno is still my favorite of the remaining amphibians. Acro is still anti-town, even if you guys are buying into his friendly-pro-town survivor with a twist story. GK I haven't looked at in ages. I should look into this one. Kier was looking good enough prior to the selection, so a failed event isn't enough to change my mind, but I probably wouldn't want him in another party and will look at him when higher priority individuals are evaluated. I'll see if I can come up with a short list of bad guys tomorrow. The biggest struggle we face right now is motivating players to produce valuable content, considering we haven't had to give a scum read that means much in 7 days. | ||
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On November 29 2012 11:03 Clarity_nl wrote: I think before I go to bed it is fairly safe for me to say this, and this ability benefits from information so: I have a 1-shot instant ability that returns someone to the state they were in a full cycle ago. This includes health, any status effect and any abilities they had at the time. So if I were to use it on CaveJohnson he would be able to use his 1-shot again, although seeing as toad didn't die that's probably not the best idea. I hit Cave for 50 damage last night. According to his claim in the thread about his current health, that should have killed him. Instead, he lives and claims to not have taken any damage. Either he is lying about his health and his ability targeting toad or someone is protecting him from damage. Both point to anti-town. I think we can definitely put your role to better use at a later time. If the mafia team attempts to focus fire a player and doesn't kill them, it sounds like that could be quite useful. I don't suppose you can use it on a player after they are killed to revive them? | ||
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On November 29 2012 11:10 Clarity_nl wrote: No I can't bring people back to life, first question I asked. ^^ Night! Ninja'd. Gnight. | ||
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In the meantime, has GK revealed any night actions yet? I don't recall. | ||
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On November 30 2012 09:47 Acrofales wrote: Kita drops into the thread with useless information after >24 hours of absence? If that's what winning entails, you'd better role+alignment claim. I've been reading and writing up a post for the past two hours. You can complain afterwards. | ||
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No, however I do refer to myself in the third party! | ||
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On November 29 2012 21:54 Acrofales wrote: That leaves town or someone who needs me dead. If it's town, just tell me, I won't be mad. Otherwise I will assume someone needs me dead and take precautions tomorrow night. I have something that sounds like it could be a paranoid gunman ability. I think it'll be fun. Want to play chicken with me, mr X? @Kita, did you take any damage? I promise I didn't shoot you. No sir. On November 30 2012 01:42 risk.nuke wrote: And I didn't know if inviting someone counted as a roleblockable action. But hey thanks for outing my name... there probably will be no consequences. What a fraud! Since when does Gato want to hide his name? He literally announces it ever time I talk with him! | ||
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On November 30 2012 10:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah that makes sense Acro, Kita do you want to share? I have no connection with the counter. | ||
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Next, onto Acro. Before you attack me for spending so much focus on him, hear me out. For people who are calling him a pro-town, third party player, these types of roles rarely exist. The only one that comes to mind was a rival role that had to kill a mafia player. First off, we don’t know that he is third party. Secondly, a survivor is not pro-town. If we don’t win by day X, the survivor simply aligns himself with the mafia team. The mafia team won’t kill him because he is an ally, the town won’t kill him because the mafia are higher priority. It would be foolish to trust a player with an alternate win condition. We have a great opportunity here to improve our position. By putting him in a corner with TC’s check, he was forced to claim for survival. Why is town not using this to our advantage? Force him to roleclaim, force him to reveal his win condition, force him to use his actions the way we see fit. People may attack me for wanting to consider him a lynch candidate, but here is my logic. When a claimed survivor with a hidden role and win condition is threatened with a lynch, he has two choices: His first option is to take his secrets to the grave and fail to meet his win condition. This wouldn’t make sense. His second option is to claim for survival, allowing us to evaluate the additional information. With his third party claim, he is banking on the fact that an organized town does not exploit his position. Why should we care if his “hunter” learns his identity? That’s less kp aimed at the town and potentially another third party player removed from the game. Maybe if he's willing to be more transparent we could even see if we could meet our goals mutually. I know it's cruel treat Acro this way, but its something that benefits our position. The only way we can follow through with this plan though is if I have town’s support to push through the ultimatum that he becomes transparent or die. I have devoted a lot of my time in the thread to opposing Cave, but I fail to see how that is a point against me. Not only has he shown little interest in helping town, he has attempted to deceive us. Why keep a compulsive liar around? He has lied about his success modifier, he has lied about not being able to change a submitted night action, he has lied about his health. Having a history of being anti-town is no excuse to continue to play anti-town. Now onto my thoughts about his claimed night action. First off, what is his motivation to claim the shot in the thread? How does telling the mafia that he is going to shoot them for 700+ damage increase his chances of success? If I'm town and have this deadly ability, I'd act first and claim later. Upon resolution, Toad confirms the damage dealt by cave. I'm not going to read into an outed scum's post all that much, but this comes off as odd to me. Why provide validity to a vig shot? Finally, we have the fact that Cave claims to have taken reduced damage during two different cycles. A player who claims to have 27 abilities (which has a 99% chance of being a lie) obviously wouldn't be able to use multiple abilities per cycle, especially when we're talking about dealing 700+ damage. So this means that he is either lying about shooting toad or another player is protecting Cave. Marv already flipped as a town aligned 50% medic. Why would there be a second one targeting Cave? He claims to have taken no damage, I claim to have shot him. Things aren't adding up. Onto risk.... On November 24 2012 20:43 risk.nuke wrote: Scummy post from a scummy player. On November 26 2012 01:24 risk.nuke wrote: Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me. On November 29 2012 05:59 risk.nuke wrote: Kitaman accomplishments was a dubious troll campaign and you question why I was under the impression he was scummy. After I posted my case against him, he responded quite aggressively and has called me scum on three different occasions, without providing actual evidence. Now lets look at his defense of GK: On November 29 2012 22:23 risk.nuke wrote: Goodkarmas behavior (not actions) when I invited him I have an impossible time to make sense from as a scum perspective. I could understand third party but that is near impossible from how insanely weak a third party he would be, and scum or third party wouldn't shoot at CJ! On November 29 2012 22:45 risk.nuke wrote: He aimed at you cycle 1. And no third party wouldn't and he can't be third party because his role is to weak and doesn't fit the profile. Scum wouldn't shoot you over likely townies. There is a contradiction here. I claimed to have shot Cave on day one. I post a case against risk and he responds that I'm scum. He places no value on the target of my night hit. However, when addressing GK, he can't possibly be mafia due to the same exact action. There is a double standard here and his line of thought shows no consistency. Masoning protown players when you have the ability to damage them makes no sense to me. If you're going to be putting together a mason circle, why are you targeting players like Keirathi, when syllo or marv is alive? You have a scum read on me, have the ability to harm me, but choose not to? If you have a method of damage output, but don't trust you reads, why isn't toad being invited? At least that's something that would be a sure thing. Risk had shown little interest in pushing a anti-town read against a player. You have to address him directly in thread if you want an opinion. I still have a scum read. I'm not sure I buy VE's protection claim on Dieno. We know the mafia team are likely going to be targeting him for a night kill. His excuse for visiting him is pretty convenient. Why wait unless night four to target him with a 25% heal? Wouldn't it have made more sense to use it earlier on. VE has claimed to be having RL issues and I can sympathize with that, but its apparent that he is having trouble keeping up with the thread and is already replacing a low-activity player. If he keeps up the current activity level with his lack of strong reads, I'd be in favor of killing him. phagga has been pretty transparent and comes off as sincere. I currently consider him town. In response to Prom's PBPA on GK, there are several things that I don't put much value into. I'm fine with a player directing blues, I don't really see his post about kp as a scumslip, and threatening to shoot lurkers is reasonable. The things that I'm looking at is his presence in the failed party, his name claim of an obscure character, his day one treatment towards syllo/sandro, and any evidence towards scumhunting. Prom, you deserve a better response and unfortunately I've already used up most of my free time tonight on the rest of the post. I want to be able to look through GK's filter first before coming to a conclusion on this one. Looking at a flipped Toad will be my first priority tomorrow. Afterwards, I'll try to take a better look at GK and Hapahauli. Onto party selection... I don't like Keirathi as a pick for leader of as a member of the group. He was included in the group that failed and the reason I've been pretty content to overlook him was his success during the first mission. Now that this no longer applies, I see no reason to take a risk with him. He claims to have a low sucess modifier, but it is possible this is just a cover for a negative modifier. I'm not going to list him as a lynch candidate yet, but we have safer choices. I'll still throw myself in the conversation for party selection even if its unlikely I'll be chosen. Not a single player has a mafia read on me. I'm not really sure why I haven't been considered during any cycle. My proposed party: Clarity Dieno Syllo Oats You could even submit this team now in case you don't remember 24 hours from now! | ||
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Because I'm being realistic and felt that pushing other objectives was a better use of my time. If clarity has a town read on me and wants to include me in his party, I'd prefer myself, dieno, clarity, and oats. Any thoughts on any of the other points? | ||
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On November 30 2012 12:26 Promethelax wrote: I'm pretty hung up on the fact that you called a party before we have one selected. Since we need to disguise the party from scum and make sure they aren't confidant who we are taking. I'll give the mafia team a hint: It's probably not going to include Cave, Toad or Acro. Mafia is going to shoot a pro-town player regardless of whether or not I listed who I think should be included. They know the identity of the leader based on the voting and have the option of focus firing him. Clarity or whoever is elected can take my exact party or swap another player in, but I fail to see why that makes you unable to comment on anything else. | ||
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Slash has multiple forms. After you defeat Slash's weaker form, he grabs the sword off the wall, which can target everyone. The first flea is fake. He drains all the mp of the first person to kill him. | ||
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Maybe by cycle 15 he might actually die off. | ||
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Opens the game with a scum read on Keirathi before little content has been posted. They exchange words a couple times and his read is dropped by the end of the day. Claims to think that the mafia team has all their eggs in the same basket with the day one lynch. Loves Kita (I love you too) Doesn't comment on GK as a candidate. Decides to push for a sandroba lynch late d1 Considered Cave anti-town and supports dealing with him by vig shot. Claims roleblock night three. Claims 710 damage, followed by 750 damage with the Cave shot. Likely raged in scum quicktopic after the investigative checks Conclusions: Toad had little support for the election and didn't support sandroba. The mafia team was content with losing day one. The mafia team decided sandroba wasn't going to be very useful quite early. We know Cave must have a kp amount that probably isn't divisible by 5 or 10 due to the single point of damage he received. Therefore, if his ability is legit, the amount of damage that he would be dealing isn't divisible by 5 or 10. Toad or Cave much be lying about the damage amount. | ||
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On December 02 2012 04:48 strongandbig wrote: if i guess the rolename wrong the ability fails and i cant use it again next cycle Have you considered trying to verify GK's nameclaim? | ||
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It seems to me that S&B's role is more useful as an investigative role, rather than a heal 50 hp role. Based on the two flips we've seen so far, the bad guys in the game match up with the mafia team roles. What we can do is select the player we're most likely to lynch the next cycle, force them to name claim, and have S&B verify that the character name. | ||
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On December 02 2012 06:32 goodkarma wrote: Did it occur to you that if strong is scum, then his "confirmations" mean nothing? If the person's town, he'll say it "checks out," and if scum fake claims he'll do exactly the same... If he confirms a scum fake claim, then he's linked himself to another scum player and we have a 2 for 1 deal. You value the 50 hp heal over the investigative check? | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:22 Acrofales wrote: So, given that SnB looks very like he's scum caught in a lie, why exactly does Kita want to let him run around doing 250 damage to whoever he feels like "checking"? I'm not sure where you got that from. I'm saying the exact opposite. We choose his target. | ||
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How come you never questioned your role mechanics when I had the same exact question 24 hours ago? I assume your next post will be a clarification after asking the host? | ||
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This may be my shining achievement when it comes to mafia cases. | ||
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Austin, I'd like to hear if you have any thoughts on S&B, nuke, VE and hap, or maybe just a couple of these individuals if you don't have the time. | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:06 TheChronicler wrote: Holy shit I hadn't voted. That was close. Posting this cycle would be kinda nice too. | ||
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What were you planning before? | ||
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Phagga, if you're not golem, would you mind revealing your actual role name? The reason I asked S&B to commit to checking you is because I couldn't come up with anything else that matches the flavor. Still waiting for VE to reveal the reasoning for his night action. | ||
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On December 03 2012 21:56 Acrofales wrote: Additionally, from the OP: @Kita: I find it amazing you would believe SnB regardless of the result. However, as it stands, Syllo says he visited Djodref. I vote we lynch SnB and if he flips scum, we lynch Kita after. Are you kidding me? I'm the one forcing S&B to commit to a check in the thread. Who says I'm believing a word he says. You do realize that I directed him to a source which he can't do damage to if phagga is truthful? Oh, right, you're not town. Nevermind. | ||
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On December 03 2012 23:01 Acrofales wrote: I thought the "good news" was Phagga claiming to take no damage, implying you believed something about SnB's claim. If that's not what you meant, what is the good news? The good news was refering to the fact that S&B appears to have been caught in a lie. | ||
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24 hours and VE still hasn't posted? Pew Pew. On December 04 2012 02:52 syllogism wrote: Prom says his role roleblocked everyone who attempted to visit Clarity. I'm not sure if I still understand how his role allegedly works though. Something to note is that I didn't visit Clarity last night, yet I was roleblocked. | ||
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I knew I could always count on you even if I'm so cruel in return. | ||
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I feel so betrayed. | ||
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Is today an event cycle? | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:14 Acrofales wrote: At least we now know that Kita is not scum. Still 3P tho. The flipped scum thought so. Must be true. | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:16 Promethelax wrote: So I guess Oats, Me and Kita aren't scum based on the actions claimed by SnB and VE. Or there was scum on scum targeting. risk/cave/acro are probably my preference today. risk's inactivity would fit right in with the rest of the team. It would be pretty demotivating to post if two of your scumbuddies have quit on you and the other two have been caught by night actions. cave because I'm starting to get tired of giving him papercuts and hoping he dies from infection. acro because we know he's anti-town and until he is willing to share his win condition, we should assume that we can't share a mutual victory. With only 1-3 mafia players remaining, they have to be shooting town, so I don't see why he shouldn't claim considering the mafia team will never hit him. | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:23 Hapahauli wrote: My only reservation with Risk is that he's often a very easy mislych in games that he's town. However in this game, his play just feels waaaay to clean from what I've seen of his game. It looks like he's really trying to be careful and blend in. But at this point it's process of elimination. I have reasons to think just about every other player (save Drazerk) is town/third-party. Risk... not so much. Do you get the feeling that he is playing careful or not playing at all? Could you give examples that made you lead to this conclusion please? | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:51 Hopeless1der wrote: Kita, I believe you have silver points. Do you know what you can do with them? Nope. Anyone wanna sell me something? | ||
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I didn't claim it earlier because I felt there was little reason to at the time with the lynches already decided. I couldn't rb night one, night two I was on nuke, three and four I was on toad, five and seven on cave, and six on VE. Just because the roleblock on risk is accounted for, doesn't mean that he is clear. I've already brought up the over enthusiastic town read on sandroba day one and how he shows a contradiction in logic when defending GK for shooting Cave, yet providing a scum read on myself who also shot cave. The use of his role is silly from a town perspective and he provides very few opinions. That being said...town having 3 roleblockers, compared to the single roleblocker flip from the scum team is quite strange...especially considering sandroba couldn't roleblock every cycle and there are so many blues the mafia has to deal with. We know Cave has a roleblocking ability that he claims is a jail. I have a town read on syllo and a slightly weaker town read on prom (mainly due to the strength of his role). Cave, I'm quite disappointed that you decided to pass on the opportunity to provide us with 16 fake claims in the same post. You have a reputation to uphold! | ||
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@Kita: How could you roleblock Toad while also shooting Drazerk (two nights in a row)? Because that's how my role works. [QUOTE]On December 06 2012 03:20 Acrofales wrote: How did you roleblock Drazerk on N7 when I got the report that my ability could not target Drazerk?[/quote] Not sure. I didn't receive any indication that my shot or roleblock was unsuccessful. [QUOTE]On December 06 2012 03:20 Acrofales wrote: Unanswerable: why did Toad claim the roleblock on N3, but not on N4?[/QUOTE] Dunno. You can try looking for Toad's n4 shot if it makes you feel better. Unanswerable #2: Why did Toad claim to take damage N3, if he was jailed and immune to damage. [QUOTE]On December 06 2012 04:14 austinmcc wrote: Why didn't you claim the risk roleblock earlier? Were you just withholding it or did you specifically want to make risk's claim look fake?[/QUOTE] There wasn't really a benefit to claim when we had the Toad and S&B lynches lined up. [QUOTE]On December 06 2012 06:36 goodkarma wrote: And that leaves CaveJohnson... Am I the only one seriously considering lynching him? I know it's not the most exciting thing to be lynching a lying troll, but everyone else at this point is accounted for...[/QUOTE] I'm not. I'd imagine he is pretty close to death from the night actions various people have targeted him with, but its hard to say how effective the shots have been. | ||
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On December 06 2012 03:20 Acrofales wrote: @Kita: How could you roleblock Toad while also shooting Drazerk (two nights in a row)? Because that's how my role works. On December 06 2012 03:20 Acrofales wrote: How did you roleblock Drazerk on N7 when I got the report that my ability could not target Drazerk? Not sure. I didn't receive any indication that my shot or roleblock was unsuccessful. On December 06 2012 03:20 Acrofales wrote: Unanswerable: why did Toad claim the roleblock on N3, but not on N4? Dunno. You can try looking for Toad's n4 shot if it makes you feel better. Unanswerable #2: Why did Toad claim to take damage N3, if he was jailed and immune to damage. On December 06 2012 04:14 austinmcc wrote: Why didn't you claim the risk roleblock earlier? Were you just withholding it or did you specifically want to make risk's claim look fake? There wasn't really a benefit to claim when we had the Toad and S&B lynches lined up. On December 06 2012 06:36 goodkarma wrote: And that leaves CaveJohnson... Am I the only one seriously considering lynching him? I know it's not the most exciting thing to be lynching a lying troll, but everyone else at this point is accounted for... I'm not. I'd imagine he is pretty close to death from the night actions various people have targeted him with, but its hard to say how effective the shots have been.[/QUOTE] | ||
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On December 06 2012 08:23 Acrofales wrote: I can see no pattern based on era. Also no pattern based on "can only roleblock whom he damaged". Mind explaining a bit more? Maybe we can compromise and I could clear things up if you would reveal your "secondary win condition" @Cave....still no 16 role claims? | ||
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On December 06 2012 12:31 Hopeless1der wrote: Hey Kita, did you ever learn anything about your silver points? Nope. | ||
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On December 06 2012 21:36 Acrofales wrote: Which makes me wonder: why is Kita lying about his night actions? lol If I didn't target Cave with my roleblock, who did I target? So I was the strongest opponent to a scum sandroba election, I roleblocked a scum toad twice, I got targeted by VE's abilities, I roleblocked a scum VE, I mentioned multiple times that I thought VE was scum, I caught S&B in his fake claim, and I've been targeting Cave (and hopeless once n2) with my night hits. Clearly my strategy is to bus my entire team, shoot the troll, and hope Lavos can take out the 15+ remaining townies. @syllo, does a roleclaim benefit us right now? I'm clearly not scum, only the third party player is suspicious of me, and revealing how my role works provides the mafia team with extra information. Like I said before, I'd be willing to claim if Acro wants to come clean. At least that benefits town information wise. | ||
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Yep I'm aware of your thoughts on factional kps, but that still doesn't mean we shouldn't coordinate roleblocks. If they don't exist (which is possible if syllo wasn't targeted by the ability he recieved damage from or if you are misleading us), then we shutdown their damage output. If factional kps do exist, then we still shut down their abilities and limit their damage output. I won't be back until after the deadline so I'll likely be on Cave tonight once again -_- On December 06 2012 22:57 Acrofales wrote: As for claiming, I don't know why you're trying to connect my claiming my identity to you claiming how your ability works. I don't really care about having the knowledge out there. I care about resolving things that don't make sense. Your claiming helps with the second part. My claiming anything further is only putting information in the thread for the sake of sating your curiosity. In my opinion, I think the town would be much more interested in you providing further information about a player who has come up dirty on an alignment check and caused us to fail a mission, than hearing about the conditions under which I can use my abilities. What's not making sense is the condition that you suddenly met based on your claimed actions. The reason you claim to want to keep your identity hidden is that player X might be hunting you. Suppose player X is looking for his target to hunt. He can choose between Robo, Kino, or the player who won't reveal his name because he is being hunted. Who is player X going to go after? On December 06 2012 22:57 Acrofales wrote: As for whom you roleblocked? Maybe you didn't roleblock anybody. You've only roleblocked 2 people who have claimed and not been counterclaimed. So you don't think I'm scum, but you think Cave and nuke are willing to lie for me? You've clearly thought this through. On December 06 2012 22:57 Acrofales wrote: I think you're probably 3P and your wincon may or may not be helpful to town. My guess is that it's not. However, it's probably not worth lynching you for, with risk.nuke pretty much claiming scum with his absence. So you're guessing that I have an anti-town win condtion. That must mean that you've considered what type of win conditions I possibly could have. What did you come up with based upon my night actions? A serial killer who takes half the game to kill Cave? A village idiot who isn't trying to get himself lynched? Your mysterious hunter who has been shooting another target? The evil chef killer? You've clearly started trying to discredit me ever since I started pressuring you for a claim. Once we lynch our fifth scum, it's still my opinion that we should direct a lynch at you unless you stop witholding information. As for the Kino claim, I'm don't recall any flavor for him involving absorbing other players abilities. Phagga doesn't really need to roleclaim this cycle, but it might help clearing things up the next time we reach a lynch cycle. | ||
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On December 07 2012 08:49 syllogism wrote: Kita time to full claim I suppose with five mafia dead it wouldn't hurt, unless Acro is out to kill me or something Mass claim is probably our best option to find the remaining 1-2 anti-town players. ![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/chrono/images/7/74/CronoBattle.gif) My abilities cost a certain amount of mp and I can use as many abilities as I want per turn as long as I can pay for them. My mp regenerate over time and I gain new abilities while leveling up, which occurs with successful events, mafia lynches or at random (I haven't quite figured out why I sometimes gain two levels. Maybe the time period) Cyclone 10mp - 50 damage target player Lightening 30mp - Roleblock target player Lightening 2 70mp - 100 damage + Roleblock target player Raise 150mp - Gain a level Frenzy 100mp - Damage target for 50 for two nights I've mostly been using Cyclone and Lightening each night to sustain my mp until Lavos shows up, since the others don't seem very cost efficient. I figure I probably have the highest event success modifier, which is why I've tried to get myself included in parties, but apparently people never had a strong enough read on me | ||
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On December 07 2012 10:11 Oatsmaster wrote: I AM THE KILLER :D I didnt get damaged in any way, shape or form. <3 Clarity :D Scum possibilities are Z-bo+Austin Hopeless Phagga Adam Right? Would someone do me a favor and refresh my memory on the role claims we've gotten from these four individuals? I'd look myself, but with the size of the thread, it would probably be easier just to ask -_- | ||
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If he really can absorb abilities, it would seem quite imbalanced for town if he just claimed and gained heals/clarity's reset/investigative powers/cave's nuke. He hasn't really shown that he's trying to abuse his role if this is how it works. | ||
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Keirathi seems to be getting excluded from the possible scum suspects. I don't think he has earned strong town status, unless I'm forgetting something. Something to consider is that we probably want to start preparing ourselves for the Lavos battle. Shutting down town kp might be a good idea to keep our health up, while relying on only the lynch to find the final 1-2 members. We don't actually have to eliminate all the mafia members to win, although we don't know the mechanics of how we're going to kill Lavos. Trading 3 to 1 with mafia at this point in the game might not be the most efficient. I'll look through the remaining players tonight. For the players in the risk qt, was there anything worthwhile now that he has flipped? On December 07 2012 23:58 Acrofales wrote: The lack of a sandwich also makes no sense unless someone roleblocked him tonight. Kita, did you RB Drazerk? Ya sorry, didn't put two and two together when you first mentioned it. On December 08 2012 02:20 syllogism wrote: Kitaman I would like you to explain your role a bit more. I would particularly like to know how much mp you have available on average and how much you gain every cycle. What is your max mp? What did you do last cycle? My max is 200. I gain 10 per night and 20 from level ups. Last night I shot Cave for 100 + roleblocked him. On December 08 2012 04:33 austinmcc wrote: I still have a hard time believing ANYONE who claims "I'm just an innocent old 3P survivor that's tough to kill, don't mind me" is telling the truth, especially with all the other stuff he made up, but there are bigger concerns now. ^^ | ||
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On December 08 2012 17:26 syllogism wrote: Kita really you roleblocked Drazerk again? Should have made you coordinate as that's just about the worst block you could have made. Did you think he is mafia? We don't even have to kill third parties to win. lol really, you're going to complain about it post flip? The worst block? Now you're just being silly. I claimed it half way through the cycle and nobody said a word. Yes, I thought he was mafia. Do you agree that we should stop shooting this cycle? Anyone found to be leaving their homes with only a kp ability that are caught by your track get lynched? I can roleblock 2 players tonight, but I'll probably just block a single player with the cheaper ability. Blocking Acro guarantees a non-town player doesn't submit an action tonight, but I might go elsewhere. I'll let you know before the deadline so you can make your block based on that. TheChronicler, have you taken any actions since your last claim? Keirathi, as you were in two parties, what was your second ability? Are these abilities one use? Its strange that his role is so nerfed compared to everyone else. He also has the failed event to take into account. The thing about Phagga is that he has the Golem's role while claiming another character's role. The golem boss battle directly matches up with his ability, where the last attack used against him is used against your party. Phagga, could you walk me through why you never tried to abuse this role, through a claim? With a parity check, we could have cleared 4 players instead of two. You could have asked to be targeted by S&B to confirm his role. You could have increased our healing output by having someone heal yourself and then healing someone else the next cycle. What was your thought process on how you should use your role? | ||
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On December 08 2012 23:22 syllogism wrote: Kita: you had already blocked drazerk on n7 and I took so much damage on n7 that it pretty much had to come from more than one source. Anyway, I'm mostly annoyed that the game is still going on even though it seems clearly that mafia can not win this. Mafia should concede I was under the assumption that my roleblock didn't go through n7, based on the Acro's claim. Oh well. | ||
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RB will be on Adam. Acro might be a good Roleblock/tracker target to confirm he only has self targeting abilities, as he claims. | ||
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One option we have is to lynch Acro. We know he doesn't contribute to the town damage output formula against Lavos. Lynching him might be the least risky option if the remaining mafia player is one of Keirathi/Adam/Prom/Hapa/Hope. With some luck, he might even turn out to be an anti-town player. I think this might be our best option. | ||
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Nevermind then. | ||
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On December 09 2012 08:58 iamperfection wrote: that would be so cold at this point. Lynching a player that isn't town isn't cold if it is your best bet for being successful. The alignment check was cruel to his chances, but its the way the game plays out. | ||
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On December 09 2012 08:59 syllogism wrote: I'm not lynching acro. I don't even care if he can do something to us at this point. He deserves to win for the effort he has put into the game and our win con says nothing about lynching third parties. He should claim his win con though, it's clearly at least partly anti-town. I might be willing to a pardon for good behavior if he's willing to claim fully, but otherwise he should be considered today. | ||
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On December 10 2012 11:18 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Vote: austinmcc Why not kita if you want to kill a 3rd party then? Acro has been pretty helpful for town, kita, not so much You people are impossible to please. I roleblocked mafia on 4 different occasions, opposed sandroba d1, wrote several cases against risk, pushed a VE lynch, and was the first person to question s&b's role and I still have to listen to this 3p nonsense? Don't make me flip that power switch of yours! | ||
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I have a hard time believing that the Magus boss battle had absolutely nothing to do with his character. Perhaps he was recruited based upon the outcome of the event? Either way, I think he should be roleblocked into oblivion. His 100 damage doesn't help much if it is aimed at one of us, while jailing our damage output in the process. Once we lose the lynch, we have no way to punish his actions since all kp will be aimed at lavos. Syllo should definitely block him just in case. I might also, even if he is claiming that I can't. Syllo, how much damage will I receive as a result of your immunity target? It’s probably worth asking if this will protect me from Lavos. I think I can do either 250 burst or 150 sustained. I'll have to do the math and double check the costs on my abilities. Unfortunately, I haven’t learned Luminaire yet (I’m assuming that’s my final ability). It’s possible I could level up from today’s lynch or I could use my level up role, but that seems to cost too many mp. Austin, unfortunately you’re at a point where the town cares more about ending the game, than identifying the final scum player. I could have been convinced to help swing the lynch to Acro, but I disagree with your assessment that not submitting a night action last night was the correct action. Perhaps whoever has to carry out the factional kp can’t act. | ||
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Also, I've got a new toy! ![[image loading]](http://fc04.deviantart.net/images2/i/2004/03/4/3/Crono__s_Luminaire.jpg) | ||
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On December 11 2012 09:05 TheChronicler wrote: Nope rofl. Might as well claim. I'm crono's mom hahaha. Hey kita be home for dinner ahahahaha <3 Just promise me that you're a better cook than Cave. | ||
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On December 11 2012 09:12 Keirathi wrote: Alright I guess I'll check back in in 2-3 days and see what happened. Ciao. We'll never reach 400 pages with that attitude! You guys are far nicer than I am by wanting to help out Acro If Magus were a true hero, he would aim his kp at Lavos. | ||
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On December 11 2012 09:33 Toadesstern wrote: I think Kita said somewhere that I'd be raging in the mafia QT and be pretty pissed. Some time ago I said that I like Kita and that I'd like to get him voted. I don't think I like Kita anymore What?! This is what I get for reviving you? | ||
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On December 12 2012 02:28 syllogism wrote: Kita: you should RB adam or just concentrate purely on damaging lavos. Acro is RBing toad, in addition to damaging him. I'd feel more conformable not relying on Acro. Plus, we know that Lavos has a roleblocking ability so a double roleblock increases our chances of shutting him down. I'm somewhat suspicious that the anti-town faction has an equivalent to my luminaire, allowing them to control who Lavos targets. | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:04 Hopeless1der wrote: I max out at 400 damage (costs 200 of my HP). I will activate tonight, and I guess decide where to fire tomorrow. If its not Lavos, then I'll electrocute you for my own satisfaction. On December 12 2012 08:45 goodkarma wrote: Didn't take damage. I agree it would be nice if some people helped Acro. I mean, he was one of the most helpful people this game... Also, Lavos hits like a wet paper towel... Next cycle, not this one. | ||
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On December 13 2012 01:26 iamperfection wrote: Everyone just shoot toad I can't put out the same amount of damage on Lavos tonight. syllo claims to not be targetting Lavos. Hope's 400 damage could get roleblocked or he could die from self inflicted damage. We really don't want it to take four cycles to kill Lavos. We should bring Lavos down to a point where we can be confident that the town factional kp will kill him on day three. Today we should target Lavos and tomorrow we can throw what we can spare at toad. According to his claim, Acro only needs a very small amount to ensure a toad kill. We don't need a toad overkill, only enough to ensure the kill after a couple of roleblocks. | ||
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On December 13 2012 07:19 iamperfection wrote: ya im marle <3 <3 <3 | ||
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Thanks for hosting GreY and Mementoss! | ||
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On December 13 2012 09:32 marvellosity wrote: bussing in this setup seems kinda ridiculous, but there we go. I disagree. A well executed bus on a mafia player who is guaranteed to revive was an excellent idea. However, I feel they didn't gain enough out of it. The mafia team obviously needed a way to infiltrate the town circle for events (even though I have no idea how the event success actually effected this game). I'm confident that sandroba would have been able to get himself elected day one if he didn't disappear. I'm lousy at campaigning and syllo appeared to trust him, until he randomly went afk. After the sandroba lynch, the mafia team needed one of their members to break into the established group of trusted players and a parity check on Toad was a decent way at achieving this. Comparing him with sandroba hurt a lot. Ideally, the parity check would target toad and the scummiest player in the thread. While the town pushes the scummy player, the mafia team sets themselves up by pushing Toad. The scummy town player gets lynched, the mafia team ends up looking excellent for being on the right side of the lynch, and TC ends up in the party. Furthermore, the mafia team were really unlucky with the second parity check. The check should have resulted in two consecutive town lynches. Instead, we end up with Acro claiming third party and neither player getting lynched. On the subject of Acro, he played the best survivor I've ever seen. I've never seen a town so trusting and so willing to help out a third party player. The google doc was an excellent way to provide value to himself and he was able to scumhunt, without being a priority mafia night hit due to the other healing and investigative roles. From a balance perspective, this had to be a nightmare to plan out. I honestly couldn't ever see myself hosting something like this since there are so many scenarios you have to go through. Not only does every player have a blue role, but you also have to balance hit points, night hits, and the outcome of events and the Lavos battle. GreYMist and Mementoss did a great job, all things considered. I'm really glad that the mafia team ended up having a seventh member. Something I would have liked to have seen from a mafia role was the ability to single target nuke a player. With role claims and event mechanics, a certain group of players would have the ability to "confirm" themselves as town. It would have been nice for them to be able to take out a priority target in a single turn once per game. An additional roleblock probably would have helped as well with so many blue roles. It was a good idea to include a role that punishes role claims. The only town role that seemed a bit overpowered was syllo's roleblock + track. The track could confirm town players and force mafia players to fake claim. In a normal setup, the tracker can usually only catch 1-2 players who either carry out the night kill or frame/rb a target. In this setup, the tracker would efficiently gain information every cycle. The event elections were a real fun part of this game. I liked that they brought in an aspect of resistance, while still allowing the game to play out like a normal mafia game. In election mafia, the toughest decision was deciding whether or not to make the election and lynch cycles separate or combine them into one cycle. I do think that having the event and lynch separate slowed down the pace of the game in some instances, but the fact that we didn't have any night cycles really helped. If most of the event and lynch votes weren't already predecided going into the cycle, I think things would have ended up working out nicely. After receiving the Chrono role, I attempted to get elected with the hopes that my success modifier would help our chances. After failing to do so, my goal was to survive until endgame with Lavos, while contributing without making myself a priority target. I suppose having so many people being suspicious that I was third party kind of helped deter mafia hits in my direction. The last few games, I've been getting myself in trouble early on, relying on role claims to save myself. Several people seemed indicate that I wasn't trying or didn't care. At lot of the time I'm reading the thread and making notes to myself, but not actually posting in the thread. I need to do a better job of sharing my thoughts early on, even if I'm not confident at that point. Posting my mafia reads day one was especially what got me in trouble. Perhaps I need to focus on a couple players and make my thoughts more focused. I am pleased that I managed to make it to the Lavos battle with a full 750hp however. Thanks again for hosting Grey and Mementoss! | ||
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On December 13 2012 10:35 GreYMisT wrote: A couple of things: It was possible for Chrono to ressurect as well, and there was another power up path for goodkarma that was not met. lol you had me wondering the whole game if the Guessing Game and Beanbag game had to do with my resurrection since Norstein Bekkler was the one that gives you the Chrono doll. Djo wrote: Crono is not a difficult name to breadcrumb and Kita made his claim from nowhere. On top of that, Crono doesn't talk so I don't see him as an actual character in this game I actually breadcrumbed my role with my first post by posting as a mute :p On November 21 2012 10:31 kitaman27 wrote: ^_^ | ||
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On December 13 2012 10:52 GreYMisT wrote: Well yes and no. whoever had the most at the end of the game would also win no matter what lol if I'd known that, I would have formed my own scum faction with Acro! :p | ||
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