CASE ON HELOKNIGHT! !
On November 25 2012 11:14 HeloKnight wrote:
1) 0!
2) We should lynch the scummiest player, whether they are scummy from lurking or from their actions. I think, in general, the lurker lynch is better because they're not contributing anyway, but we shouldn't lock ourselves in to a mindset.
3) Cheesecake by far.
In the bolded parts, heloknight says that lynching lurkers is better because they arent contributing. From the town mindset, you want as many people alive who arent obvious scum because it prolongs Lylo and gives us more of a chance to find scum.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 26 2012 00:56 HeloKnight wrote:Oats:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 21:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
Kickstart, I am saying you OMGUS voted me. Which you did.
I would love to make a case on Cheesecake if he posted more than 10 posts...
My vote in cheese is based on FEELING. Your vote on me is because you think that my vote is bullshit. Therefore, you OMGUS me :l Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 18:34 Oatsmaster wrote:
I love this, Cheesecake posted 2 posts and people are expecting me to make a case. LOL. He did nothing to convince me that he is town yet though :/
I agree with the content, but it feels forced, thats all that I think about cheesecake right now. Modkills/replacements should be the LAST thing on your mind in the whole game. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 23:26 Oatsmaster wrote:LOL kickstart learning from the vets huh. there are like 4 pages of content, I challenge you to find a case out of that. A proper case that has scum reasons for certain posts. ok about cheesecake On November 25 2012 11:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Greetings gentlemen!
A few questions to spark ye olde town discussion:
1) How many games have you played on TL?
2) Where do you stand on lurker lynching D1?
3) Pie or Cheesecake?
For me:
1) this is my third, one game as mafia one as VT
2) Lynching a lurker d1 is good to me if no viable scum read presents itself. Also, we have no vig to take care of pesky lurkers otherwise.
3) Pie. Jk jk. This post looks like he is being light-hearted, especially with the Pie and Cheesecake question. I feel that it is an act, the post looks VERY deliberate in being casual. On November 25 2012 11:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. Pretty obvious statement if you ask me. We just need to possess the confidence to scumhunt effectively. There is a 48 hour window between now and lynch time, so there is no reason anyone should be lurking. If we have to lynch a lurker, meh, but I'd much rather have this "small sample size" inflated within D1 so we aren't forced down the coin flip road. Anyone else around? Then here, a reason for people to be lurking is because we havent called them out. He basically says, I will lynch a lurker/anybody. Which is good reason to hop onto any bandwagon that is benefical for scum. Like lynching an inactive town/active but bad town These posts are confusing. You say several times that you can't write a case from his posts thus far, in response to those asking you to explain yourself, but then you write a mini-case in the very same post. Why didn't you just write this case when people asked for it, instead of repeatedly saying that you can't write a case? Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cheesecake, you completely miss the point about the first post.
I said you are TRYING too hard to be casual and it ends up looking fake. So therefore you are scum trying to gain town image by starting a discussion.
However, the discussion has nothing to do with scum reads and such, it is basically fluff that you want from your questions.
so I think that you are scum because you APPEAR to be helping town when in actual fact, you are putting up a facade. You say that "trying to look casual" is a scum trait, but your first few posts are looking pretty casual: Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
Just kidding :D
But seriously lets talk.
This is my first/second game, I/E I havent finished a mafia game yet This post looks pretty "forced casual" too, but I don't know if smilies are the norm for Oats. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
By far the most important question
3) Pie. Or a Light Cheesecake.
1) 0. I am currently in another game
2) I think that we should lynch a lurker D1 yes. Why is "trying to be casual" a scum trait when you are clearly trying to be casual yourself?
He posts a long ass post about me contradicting myself but he just asks 1 question, why is trying to be casual a scum trait? I think the scum motivation for this post is to look like he is attacking me but he actually doesnt come up with a conclusion.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 26 2012 09:22 HeloKnight wrote:The most suspicious thing about yamato right now is the timing of his CC post (right after SDM posted his CC case), making it seem like he's trying to hop on/start a wagon. The problem is that I'm not confident that this makes him scum. He might have been, like he says, just commenting on the person in the spotlight. Right now, I would be more comfortable lynching Munk-E. He's had a grand total of two posts so far, and neither of them are very useful. The first post is just him answering Cheesecake's questions three, with a weird position completely against lurker lynching and a lot of jokes: Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 05:18 Munk-E wrote:Hello everyone! I am here. On November 25 2012 11:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Greetings gentlemen!
A few questions to spark ye olde town discussion:
1) How many games have you played on TL?
2) Where do you stand on lurker lynching D1?
3) Pie or Cheesecake?
1. 3 before, and I think I've lost them all. TT 2. It's a dumb idea. Lurkers don't become suspicious unless they avoid direct questions. A townie would be just as likely to lurk day 1 as a red, since real life can get in the the way early on. Plus, if someone is lurking a suspicious amount, and they're mafia, their scum brethren would tell them to pick it up on their posting. 3. It's a biased question, you give us only one flavor of cake, but we have to compare it against an entire class of deserts? What are you trying to imply? That cheesecake is better than any type of pie? In your response you arrogantly dismiss pie. This could be a tactic to make every type of pie be seen as inferior to cheesecake, and that might taint the views of the rest of the players. You know who else trys to change the opinion of the players? Mafia do. Mr. Cheesecake is SCUM This post could have been done by either alignment, but I would have expected a little more by the time he commented. In addition, this is about the definition of "forced casualness" (if anyone is still using that argument). The lurker lynching position is not very thought out. Yes, townies can lurk, but that doesn't make lynching them a "dumb idea". His second (and final) post is a commentary on Oats: Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 06:18 Munk-E wrote:Okay, joking aside, I'd like to take a minute to look at oatsmaster, because at the very least, I think he's playing weird, and weird is noteworthy. On November 25 2012 11:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
By far the most important question
3) Pie. Or a Light Cheesecake.
1) 0. I am currently in another game
2) I think that we should lynch a lurker D1 yes. Here he says a day 1 lurker lynch is a good idea, which he elaborates on here. On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. however, soon after that, he posts this. On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him So, what can we make about this early contradiction. One option is what he said recently, that he was just trying to stir up discussion. This does make sense of this mess, since he doesn't really want to lynch lurkers, just scare them into talking. I don't feel this is the truth though, because he only claim this after he started getting accused because of his strange ways. Option 2, since he said he has never played a game before, he could just be bad. It seems to me, weather scum or townie, what he did was dumb. He's also doing that thing that noobs sometimes do, where you accuse and accuse until someone starts asking you what's up, and you go into hardcore defense mode. This seems most likely to me, which unfortunately doesn't tell us much about his alliance. Option 3: He is mafia and was trying to pin suspicion on Mr.CC. This may be the case, but he did it so poorly that he brought suspicion upon himself. What makes me think this might be the case is that even after he admitted to not having a case against CC, he voted for him anyways. Later, he has some really bullshit reasoning which right before he says this. On November 25 2012 22:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
OH YES FINALLY, you say why my behaviour is scummy. :D
My explanation is that his first 2 posts seem off. What do you want? Cheesecake posted less than 10 posts, how can you garner any evidence from that? Without any replies from CC, he posts this 40 minuites later. On November 25 2012 23:26 Oatsmaster wrote:LOL kickstart learning from the vets huh. there are like 4 pages of content, I challenge you to find a case out of that. A proper case that has scum reasons for certain posts. ok about cheesecake On November 25 2012 11:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Greetings gentlemen!
A few questions to spark ye olde town discussion:
1) How many games have you played on TL?
2) Where do you stand on lurker lynching D1?
3) Pie or Cheesecake?
For me:
1) this is my third, one game as mafia one as VT
2) Lynching a lurker d1 is good to me if no viable scum read presents itself. Also, we have no vig to take care of pesky lurkers otherwise.
3) Pie. Jk jk. This post looks like he is being light-hearted, especially with the Pie and Cheesecake question. I feel that it is an act, the post looks VERY deliberate in being casual. On November 25 2012 11:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. Pretty obvious statement if you ask me. We just need to possess the confidence to scumhunt effectively. There is a 48 hour window between now and lynch time, so there is no reason anyone should be lurking. If we have to lynch a lurker, meh, but I'd much rather have this "small sample size" inflated within D1 so we aren't forced down the coin flip road. Anyone else around? Then here, a reason for people to be lurking is because we havent called them out. He basically says, I will lynch a lurker/anybody. Which is good reason to hop onto any bandwagon that is benefical for scum. Like lynching an inactive town/active but bad town It's weird to me, immediately after saying there isn't a case to be made, he makes a case. This may be from a mafia buddy trying to save his ass and giving him the best he could come up with about a case for CC. Something that may also be of note is that sonic death monkey essentially just took this point and elaborated on it later. They are the only 2 voting for CC. On November 26 2012 04:59 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:The reason I'm asking all these questions and why Mr. Cheesecake's play makes me feel uneasy Part 1In XXIX: CC was scum and all uptight, just like he said in one of his responses itt. After the game, his scum buddies said he was a funny guy cracking a lot of jokes in the scum QT. It's quite obvious CC wasn't being himself in the actual XXIX game thread, the real CC isn't uptight. In XXX: CC was town and the complete opposite of uptight. It was obvious he was being his real self, ie what he had shown in the scum QT in XXIX. This complete change of meta was why I gave him a 100% town read in the obs QT. BUT this play style got him lynch. Cracking jokes and being a goof got him into a shitty situation which lead him to a weird VT claim and later a mislynch. What would one expect town CC to take away from this? He needs to lay off his goofy style or he risks getting mislynched. What would one expect scum CC to take away from this? He needs to be more of a goof, otherwise the difference in meta will give him away. If you compare this game to his town play in XXX, he's more serious business now. That would lead me to believe either a) he's town and has realized his style in XXIX didn't work and he needs to play a bit more "serious" or b) the reason he's playing closer to his scum meta is because he's scum. Now I agree with what Oats said, CCs initial posts in this thread come off as "forced casual". That is, b) is quite possible: He's scum, has realized he needs to emulate his town play style, but doesn't really succeed. Besides, by asking these questions, I really gave him the chance to give me the a) explanation, but he didn't. He even says it hasn't affected his town play at all, which I find weird considering how he crashed and burned in XXX. He says, however, that it has affected his scum mentality. The reason he knows may be because he's playing scum right now. Part 2When you play as scum, you really don't want to butt heads with the stronger players. When I was scum in XXVIII I soon came to realize it would be in my best interest to agree with DarthPunk and Z-Boson because they pursued their scum reads aggressively. Now maybe I'm full of myself, but having played 3 games I would like to believe I'm one of the DPs and ZBs of this game, a player you want to get along with if you're scum. That's why this post by CC makes uneasy: On November 26 2012 00:16 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Okay so just woke up. The Oats vote is pretty lulzy to me. On November 25 2012 23:26 Oatsmaster wrote:LOL kickstart learning from the vets huh. there are like 4 pages of content, I challenge you to find a case out of that. A proper case that has scum reasons for certain posts. ok about cheesecake Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Greetings gentlemen!
A few questions to spark ye olde town discussion:
1) How many games have you played on TL?
2) Where do you stand on lurker lynching D1?
3) Pie or Cheesecake?
For me:
1) this is my third, one game as mafia one as VT
2) Lynching a lurker d1 is good to me if no viable scum read presents itself. Also, we have no vig to take care of pesky lurkers otherwise.
3) Pie. Jk jk. 1.) This post looks like he is being light-hearted, especially with the Pie and Cheesecake question. I feel that it is an act, the post looks VERY deliberate in being casual. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. Pretty obvious statement if you ask me. We just need to possess the confidence to scumhunt effectively. There is a 48 hour window between now and lynch time, so there is no reason anyone should be lurking. If we have to lynch a lurker, meh, but I'd much rather have this "small sample size" inflated within D1 so we aren't forced down the coin flip road. Anyone else around? 2.) Then here, a reason for people to be lurking is because we havent called them out. He basically says, I will lynch a lurker/anybody. Which is good reason to hop onto any bandwagon that is benefical for scum. Like lynching an inactive town/active but bad town <snip> I'm more concerned about Yamato right now. His posts amount to a bunch of one-liners that achieve nothing. Same goes for Helo, pretty blendy personalities at this point in time. FoS Yamato77FoS HeloKnightJust a bit of pressure, I'd like to hear some constructive posts from them. @AquaniumOn November 25 2012 14:57 Aquanim wrote:Sure, he's made all of four five posts so far so don't expect anything insightful. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 14:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 12:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes totally agree with Cheesecake.
only 5/9 are here, where are the rest On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him I really don't understand where your trepidations are coming from. You agree with me, but get scummy feelings from me? I'm not liking this. In the first quote Cheesecake took, Oatsmaster is agreeing with this post: Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. Pretty obvious statement if you ask me. We just need to possess the confidence to scumhunt effectively. There is a 48 hour window between now and lynch time, so there is no reason anyone should be lurking. If we have to lynch a lurker, meh, but I'd much rather have this "small sample size" inflated within D1 so we aren't forced down the coin flip road. Anyone else around? which is pretty generically town-speech stuff from Mr. Cheesecake. I could well see Oatsmaster agreeing with the body of this message, BUT not liking the fact that Cheesecake is making speeches rather than poking people and looking for scum. (I'm taking a wild guess at what Oatsmaster's feeling was based on here.) And apart from Cheesecake's questions in his first post and contentless sniping at Oatsmaster since that's all there is. This post is extremely wish-washy to me. He basically takes a neutral stance and says that he can understand both sides of the argument. I'm confused as to his opinion. Do you not like the fact that he agreeing with me, and simultaneously gets a scum-feel? Or do you disagree with me? It is basically a carbon copy of my previous opinions/questions: On November 25 2012 19:15 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The first thing that stuck out to me was Helo just making a couple of short posts then disappearing (to enter again with another contentless post after he was called out for it). Yamato is making a decent amount of posts with no content and making some weird conclusions, such as. On November 25 2012 13:51 yamato77 wrote:
If we sheep oats and lynch cheesecake, and he flips town, at least our day 2 lynch is an easy decision. Which obviously isn't correct. He also seems worried about how he's percieved, asking Aqua about whether he's still uneasy about him. From my experience as scum you usually don't like being in the dark of how others percieve you. Not much to go on so far, but that was my initial reactions to the thread. <snip> On November 25 2012 21:37 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 25 2012 14:57 Aquanim wrote:Sure, he's made all of four five posts so far so don't expect anything insightful. Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 14:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 12:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes totally agree with Cheesecake.
only 5/9 are here, where are the rest On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him I really don't understand where your trepidations are coming from. You agree with me, but get scummy feelings from me? I'm not liking this. In the first quote Cheesecake took, Oatsmaster is agreeing with this post: Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 11:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 25 2012 11:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think that accurate day 1 reads are difficult to make due to the low sample size and if we lynch the lurkers, everyone has to contribute which will help in making more accurate reads. Pretty obvious statement if you ask me. We just need to possess the confidence to scumhunt effectively. There is a 48 hour window between now and lynch time, so there is no reason anyone should be lurking. If we have to lynch a lurker, meh, but I'd much rather have this "small sample size" inflated within D1 so we aren't forced down the coin flip road. Anyone else around? which is pretty generically town-speech stuff from Mr. Cheesecake. I could well see Oatsmaster agreeing with the body of this message, BUT not liking the fact that Cheesecake is making speeches rather than poking people and looking for scum. (I'm taking a wild guess at what Oatsmaster's feeling was based on here.) And apart from Cheesecake's questions in his first post and contentless sniping at Oatsmaster since that's all there is. I don't really understand this post. What read did you end up with on CC and why? Being second on the ball to one of the stronger/more experienced players in this game is scummy. CC also kind of sided with me on the Oats issue, although his read is more on the null side. So yeah, I'm accusing him of cock-riding. FOS CheesecakeCheesecake is my best scum read right now, but at least he's around and actually contributing. I'm absolutely capable of switching to one of you lurkers out there if I find a decent reason. There's also plenty of time of Cheesecake to convince me he's not scum, so go for it. In conclusion, I feel like although he may just be dumb, he's more likely to be mafia than a random vote, however I don't feel confident enough in it to cast my vote on him yet. He posts this after Oats has already been discussed a lot and repeats points that have already been said. One goal of the mafia is to continue discussing pointless things to waste time. In addition, he still hasn't provided opinions on any of the more recent "controversies". For some reason, no one has called him out yet (or mentioned him at all). I'm not confident in yamato yet, but he's at least posted some opinions and backed them up. Right now, I'd rather a M-E lynch. ##Vote: Munk-E
All the things he applies to munk-e can be applied to himself too.
Then he posts a list.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2012 07:25 HeloKnight wrote:Helo's Complete List of ReadsSDM: Strong town. The most active player, constantly probing for information, explaining his thoughts, and generally playing smart. Going through his filter you can see lots of very useful posts commenting on the situation. Very confident on this one. Aquanim: Leaning town. He pushed his Kickstart case, but admitted it had holes when he found them, which shows he's not just tunneling one player. Not a long filter, but generally good posts. Mr. Cheesecake: Leaning town. He's throwing suspicion onto many players, such as myself, yamato, and Jacob, which I see as a town trait. I think he should consider a town explanation on yamato's posts instead of just a scum one, and I think confirmation bias might be a factor. For instance, the post referenced in this case can also be explained by newbie town. Might be scum pushing for an easier mislynch, but I doubt it. His vote onto Munk was also odd, but he's offered an explanation that doesn't tell much, so I'll ignore it. yamato77 Null. I've offered my opinions on him many times, and I still don't know if he's town or scum. I think he really could be either. Lynching him feels like a coinflip to me. A lot will depend on what he does tomorrow. Kickstart: Null. Pushed Oats pretty hard early, which doesn't say much. He's done a pretty good job of explaining himself against multiple accusations, but that's most of what he's done. I'd like to hear a little more about others than just Oats. Jacob Strangelove: Heavily leaning scum. Nearly his entire filter is just one liners, with almost nothing of value. Anything he says would be easily faked by scum. He does nothing but ask useless questions and say pretty obvious things. Will probably write a full case up for tomorrow. Oatsmaster: I don't even know what to say. He's been basically trolling this whole game. He spams about useless stuff, and hasn't done anything to make me think he's town. The only real defense for him is the "too scummy to be scum" defense, and I don't find it very convincing. I refer people to CC's case on him for a good explanation of what I'm getting at. I'm out of time for right now, but I'll elaborate on whatever you all want when I'm back. What a list. Throwing suspicion around willy-nilly is actually a scum trait because they dont want people to be focused on only them... He has no original ideas and I posted a lot more since CC's post so it is not that relevant anymore.
|
EPT
