EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXI - Page 3
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
On November 27 2012 00:09 Kickstart wrote: Ah I get to wake up to a case on me and many questions to answer, have to say I wasn't anticipating that. I am catching crap for "defending cheese". First off I am suspicious of everyone and no one at this point is confirmed town, but if me pointing out that the cases against him are absolute SHIT, then you can claim I am defending him, but saying that a case is founded on bad logic or that I don't agree with the case is hardly scummy. There are all the posts where I "defend" cheese, and all they say is meta cases in a noobie game where the person has only played one game each as town and scum is not worth anything to me. If you disagree then whatever, but me saying this is hardly scum, it is me trying to be a logical town. I am not going to just let shit cases fly on people when I don't think the cases hold any weight. With that being said, I will explain why Aquas case on me is also shit. So he decides to start out by going after my first post as useless, content-less, and just a space filler. Well I take offence to that, especially given the posts of the majority of people in this thread. I think my post: Is much better than almost anyone's first post, and it has substance. I quickly say what needs to be said about policy because focusing on it too much is horrid as town, and I point out some shit play coming out from oatsmaster. Then I get accused of "lurking" because I didn't post for four hours. I am not sure if this is a serious accusation or him grasping at straws to try and make a case. But frankly it is ridiculous, it is the start of the game, I posted a perfectly good introduction post that asked questions of people, and I was waiting for the answer. How you could possibly accuse ME of lurking in this thread is beyond me given the activity that I have had compared to others. But I will write it off as an attempt to bolster your "case" on me. Then the rest of your "case" is just me going after Oatsmaster in an opportunistic way. For one, I am the FIRST person who was telling him to step up his posts in the beginning and I called him out for giving a half-assed vote without ANY explanation. AND HE IS STILL FUCKING DO IT, LOOK AT HIS RECENT POST: Really? I pointed out the fact that saying "well there isn't much to go off of" and then saying you feel he is scum is really, really, silly - but Oats just continues to tunnel Cheese. I have just pointed out that Oats is playing horrible and that I am suspicious of it. And my case on Oats is not meaningless as you would like to paint it to be, look at his posting - completely confusing and doesn't drive any discussion at all; he is then asked to please give some real reasons and sound logic for his votes and he refuses while just continuing to post nothing of substance. And it also seems to me that a shitty wagon on Cheese has formed that he is all too keen to sit on. Now again I must say I don't know if Cheese is town or not, but the case against him is crap and not convincing to me at all. Could he still be scum? Yes, but I won't be voting on crap cases, and other than a few horrible cases on him there is nothing; as is the case with this "case" on me. Here I address the only actual case ever made against me and addressed both points that you are still accusing me of (hard defending cheese and raging at oats). | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
On November 27 2012 23:09 yamato77 wrote: He can't, because they don't exist. Besides his ranting on Oats he hasn't given any detailed reasons as to why he voted for me. But if you would like to ask me questions separate from Jacob's I can do my best to answer. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
In-depth might have been a bit of a stretch because honestly I haven't made any single large post on a person. But I have made a case on Oats and the majority of my so called "rage posts" are me pressing the points that I had made - that he is not contributing and that even after asked by multiple people to do so he refused to. Here is my initial post that says this: On November 25 2012 21:27 Kickstart wrote: First off your format for your vote is wrong, secondly saying you are "intensely serious" is not a case on cheesecake. Frankly this is ridiculous and so anti-town so far that if it continues I don't think we should keep you around because this is either scum play or bad town play. The beginning of your filter is all fluff, which isn't that big of a deal since it is the start of the game and I don't really expect anything amazing from anyone, but then you post: I already told you before, if you are suspicious of someone you need to make a better post than that, you need to make a case against the person providing reasons for why they are suspicious. Then there is this: Why would you bring up "think about if I was scum", that is not a town mindset. Scum are the ones who would say something like that, all town needs to do is let their actions show that they are being pro-town, and so far you arent. And then the final straw for me so far is this: So you say yeah ok me saying cheese is scum without providing any reasoning is a bit extreme, THEN YOU DO IT ANYWAYS????? This is unacceptable. I suggest you start making some real cases, untill then: ##vote: Oatsmaster Grant it that this is very early in the thread, but my point the entire time has been that Oats' tendencies and posting has not changed at all - all the points I made then are still valid (even more so since they remain unchanged after pleading from numerous people that Oats begin to make sense). Now I do intend to make an updated case Day 2 but the points will still be the same - it is just IO have 3 times as much to point to now from Oats. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
On November 27 2012 00:38 Kickstart wrote: I am going to copy the player list and then give reads on them from what I have gathered so far, if you want a more in depth read on someone ask away but I will try and make them as substantial as I can based on what we have to work with so far. HeloKnight: I read him as a timid townie so far. Early on he was not posting much and got some flak for making easy points, but afterwards he did step it up and defended himself and then went on to make a case on Munk-E, so I get a slight town read on him (although as with most players in the thread so far, there isn't much to go off of). Aquanim: Despite his case on me I read him as slightly town. Actually the case on me gives me that read because aqau is activiely trying to scum hunt and bringing pressure onto people that weren't being pressured at all before, so this I like as town play and encourage him to continue doing. Mr. Cheesecake: null read. I soft-defended him because I felt like the cases were bad and had no weight, which I think can be agreed upon by everyone. Unfortunatly most of his posting doesn't allow me to have a town read on him because he hasn't done much in the way of sticking his neck out on anything. But on the other hand he has been forced to defend himself for most of Day 1 so I give him a null read thus far. Sonic Death Monkey: SDM is my top town read so far. Again no one is confirmed town at this point but SDM is playing incredibly well and is a benefit to town at this point. He is pressuring people, providing honest and well thought out reads on people and at this point is a huge asset to town. Oatsmaster: I think at this point everyone knows my views on Oats, so I won't expand on them much here. I think he is slightly scummy. Jacob Strangelove: Null-read, here is another player who I don't feel I have enough to work with. He has posted a bit but again I don't feel strongly one way or the other just because there isn't much to go off of here. Munk-E: There isnt much to be said that is new. Two posts - both not giving us much and one is just jumping on Oats with points that have been made. I would say LURKER but if i have to choose between town and scum I would say slight scum read, simply because I feel a town player would want to be more active while a scum player would do as he has - try to hide and maybe jump on some cases if he sees an opportunity. Kickstart: I read myself as town ! No but seriously, If YOU want a read on me just read my posts in context, I feel like I have been trying to push sound reasoning and logic throughout the game and been nothing but honest about my reads on people. Yamato77: Too many one liners for my taste, he did provide one large general read post (much like this one) but other then that has not tried to scum hunt at all - just nothing. I have to give yamato a slight-scum read at this point because he has been around, he has posted enough, but it has mostly been one-liners with no substance. Again I feel like a town player would want to make real, substantial posts instead of just coming in with one liners on everything. On November 27 2012 01:00 Kickstart wrote: It seems like I am going to have to consolidate my vote eventually (I won't actually be here AT lynch time because I have class, have to leave a few hours before time) because it seems no one is convinced that Oats is scummy. I will probably have to vote for Munk-E based on the lurker factor and that at least other people have posted, while Munk-E just posts twice, both of which have little town motive behind them. My main issue is I view most lurker lynches as a coin-flip, but if Munk-E doesn't post anything in the next 6ish hours (amount of time I have till need to get ready and go to class) then it will kind of be forced on me to vote for him. On November 27 2012 05:35 Kickstart wrote: Been waiting to see if Munk-E is going to make an appearance and vote but so far nothing ;/. I have about 2 more hours before I am gone until after lynch so I will wait a bit longer and hope he appears. At this point it seems no one shares my suspicion of Oats and I don't want my vote to be meaningless. So I will probably end up voting for one of my other scum-reads at the moment (between Munk-E and Yamato). I wish Munk-E would come post because as I stated before a his posts are suspicious but there isn't much to go off of, he is basically lurking and a vote on him will be more of a coin-flip than I am comfortable with. I've already expressed my suspicion of Yamato; his short one line posts and just summation of everything - maybe you can make some more reads Yamato so I can get a better feel for what you are actually thinking? Either way I am going to wait a bit longer before making a final decision, hopefully someone actually posts something instead of everyone sitting around waiting for lynch time to roll around. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
My thoughts on Yamato's case on Cheese coming up since I was asked. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
That being said I do think a real case can be made against cheese and I intend to look at him further because his flip flopping at lynch time is pretty suspicious, especially just hopping right on the Munk-E wagon. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
a) there could be town motive to it and b) A LOT OF PEOPLE DID IT (in other words I could take your case and apply it to numerous other people without changing ANY of your points, they can all apply to lots of other people). I admitted I read them the same, he flip flopped and that is suspicious, I just think if you want to make a case on someone you are going to need more than that because again you can make the very same point about anyone. But yes I will be making cases and again I think and hope that I can find a strong case from the Munk-E wagon and will be looking at it thoroughly, I may do a post on the lynch as a whole and move on from there. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
This is getting really, really, old. This is a game of logic - if you are making a case on someone that is fucking horrid, I am calling you on it - get over it. | ||
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Kickstart
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Kickstart
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
An example of the logic of a case being sound but someone not agreeing with the case is my "case" ( I guess it is better classified as just a general read I have been pushing rather than a case) is my reads on Oats. Everyone agrees that his posting has been suspicious and if town it has been poor town posting, but no one seems to agree with me that he is scum. They agree with my points - he is posting shit, but not with my "case" that this makes him the top scum read right now. | ||
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Kickstart
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Kickstart
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
Yamato77 is SCUM Now before I get into making my own case I want to show what Munk-E had to say during Day 1 and particularly near lynch time, because at this point in time the only person who we know for 100% is town is Munk-E., so we automatically know that his posts were genuine and had town motivation. Now I will grant that just because Munk-E was town does not necessarily make his reads correct, but I think the fact that he is the only confirmed town at this point gives his reads some extra weight that we cannot yet give to anyone else. Munk-E's strongest read was on Yamato, here are his posts: + Show Spoiler + On November 27 2012 05:51 Munk-E wrote: Right now, I feel Yamato is our best bet. He seems to be against me, CC and kickstarter. I understand his reasoning behind being suspicious of me (despite my opinion of being suspicious of lurkers), however he never made an argument against CC, despite promising to. In fact, the only one I see who has made a real case against CC is SDM, and that case was based off of how he played in previous games. I feel basing a scum read on how he played before is really dumb, because he could easily change his style, and in that post he also said that he probably intentionally did that. This just creates a massive WIFOM situation, and thus to me, invalidates the point. This post was also posted in the middle of a minor Kickstarter bandwagon. And while he did make a small case against kickstarter, it was nothing really substantial, and somewhat contradictive. (Also as a side note, I saw that play as scummy, as I explained before.) This may be to distance himself from oats, who I feel still isn't in the clear, but his entire case on kickstarter was because he went after oats so aggressively, therefore, going and saying he might be scum is contradictory to his entire case. What I noticed most about his only posts that were more than a few lines were hardcore about defending his image. (above and below) Yes Yamato, yes you do Now I shouldn't need to tell you why I'm suspicious of someone who's only real content is making cases for why he's innocent. He also voted for me after both helo and SDM, but i'll let it slide because I was at the top of suscpicion list. Nonetheless, he seems most concerned about defending himself, and explaining his actions, and that certainly seems more scummy than anyone else so far to me, and while I wish I had longer to decide, he certainly looks the worst to me, so therefore ##Vote: yamato77 (p.s. before anyone says it, I didn't just make this post because he was voting for me, I understand that's just pressure.) and + Show Spoiler + On November 27 2012 11:26 Munk-E wrote: Alright,i hate having to defend myself, but i guess it's necessary so you don't waste a vote. No one has made a real case against me. The only real argument against me that everyone claims is that I'm lurking, and that i voted to save myself. As for the lurking, the point of accusing lurkers is to get them to talk. In theory, the more they say the easier they are to read, of they're mafia, they might say too much and give a tell. This point is null though, because it brings suspicion to lurkers. Besides, you got what you want from me, I'm talking more. As for the voting solely to save myself, it's not true. Yamato still is the scummiest player here, doing minimal scum hunting and over reacting every time someone accuses him of something. Someone accused me of being sheepish, because i said i wasn't 100% sure. I guess that was a wrong thing to say, even though that's how the game works. You never are positive about a role unless you are detective, which wouldn't work because it's day one, or mafia. You just go with your best guess. The point is there isn't a case against me, just a band wagon. Honestly, there are so many of you that voted for me with no or minimal justification, especially those who only recently jumped on the bandwagon. Now to sum up Munk-E's points against Yamato (but you should still read the posts I quoted because I think Munk-E actually did a good job in making his case, and again knowing that Munk-E was town makes his rather well thought out case against Yamato even more compelling) he accuses Yamato of content less posting, not making any scum reads himself while getting on others for doing the same thing, and of only defending himself. All of these charges are true and they hold up all through Yamato's filter. Now I cant copy and paste his entire filter but I encourage you to go look at it and you will see that Yamato has the largest filter of anyone in the game (about 5 pages), but it entirely composed of, one liners, summation posts (just a summary of events thus far), defense of himself, and bad/easy cases (his only real cases have been against cheese, both times they are bad and use points that have already been made by someone else). Now that is a huge pattern of posting - he has had more posts than anyone else and with the longest filter he has managed to offer nearly nothing in the way of looking for scum. Now all this so far is bad for Yamato and on its own would make a good case against him and is good enough reason to vote for him because it is all very scummy. But looking at the Munk-E lynch I found something even more damning. I looked at the progression of votes that went onto Munk-E and tried to see which ones were suspicious. The first vote on Munk-E is from HeloKnight and the second is from SDM. Now Helo is the first to make a move on Munk-E and does it because Munk-E is lurking and the only post Munk-E did make was a sheep onto Oats - both valid points at the time. Now SDMs vote onto Munk-E is for lurking aswell, but at least SDM is hesitant with the vote, but still gives solid reasons for it other than the ones Helo gave and doesn't seem to be jumping onto a Munk-E wagon. Then Yamato throws his vote on Munk-E with this post: On November 27 2012 00:39 yamato77 wrote: ##Vote: Munk-E If he posts anything useful at all in the few hours I am sleeping after this post, I will change it, because I really don't like lynching people just because they lurk. However, right now, I have to place a vote just in case I oversleep drastically and he really is the best candidate. CC and kick still on my scumdar. Jacob, Helo, and Oats are not far from it, either. This is suspicious for a few reasons. First he tries to hedge himself by saying that this isn't his final choice, he is just making it and will change it because he doesn't like lynching lurkers. Well the vote never changes - Yamato says he doesn't like lynching lurkers (which is his only charge against Munk-E in this post) but in the same post says Munk-E is the best candidate (when his only beef is his lurking) and again he just leaves the vote on the lurker. This is someone trying to jump on a wagon without drawing attention to themselves if I've ever seen it. He says "oh this really isn't a great vote and I will change it" but makes the vote anyways and never changes it. It is even worse given that he says he has two other scumreads, because if his only problem with Munk-E was his lurking then why would he jump onto that easy wagon instead of trying to push his actual reads? Here is another post from Yamato when he was under a bit of pressure: On November 27 2012 07:19 yamato77 wrote: Seriously pressure CC to do anything besides tunnel one player. That's all he's done today and tomorrow he may have no plan, if he is scum. Jacob, equally, has contributed nothing of real value. If he's off playing a video game like he claims (terrible cop-out), then perhaps you guys need to pressure him into making reads that aren't complete fluff like posting a whole paragraph deciphering if I slept the right amount of time in his opinion. His vote on me seems contrived, as does Munk-E's, because neither one cast serious suspicion on me before placing their vote. MUNK-E IS SCUM. He has lurked the whole game for no good reason. His two serious posts are mostly content-less reasons to sheep his vote on a player already under heat. I see absolutely zero town motivation in his actions at this point. If I get lynched, your day 2 should be DESTROYING him for how terrible he is playing. Again we have the typical accusing others of tunneling and sheeping and all that while not providing much himself, but the interesting thing here is the last paragraph because it just reaffirms what I have been saying. Yamato only brings up two points against Munk-E here, one is that he is lurking and the other is that Munk-E's two posts are content-less cheeping onto players. Well the first is just his excuse for leaving his vote on Munk-E, everyone was already saying Munk-E was lurking so this is just a safe statement - nothing new here. But the second statement is a blatant lie. Look at Munk-E's post on Yamato that I spoilered above and ask yourself if that is a content-less sheeping post. I don't think it is, it is a well reasoned post and all his criticisms of Yamato are valid even up until now, and we know now that Munk-E was town and this leads me to believe that he was being genuine - this was not a sheep. So there is my case on Yamato. I do need to go to class now but I wanted to post this case before night actions because I won't be back until afterwards and wanted to contribute incase I get NKd. So right now Yamato has been promoted to my top scum read followed by Oats. | ||
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
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