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Hello, sirs.
First of all I´d like to claim miller.
There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game.
I am fakeclaiming as mafia.
I am in fact a miller.
My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment.
The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red.
That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet.
Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out 
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Loving the activity so far.
What I'm not loving is the excess of activity coming from debears.
He's being very chit-chatty this game and here's what I find very interesting.
He has commented on every single little thing on this game and is posting a ton (which by itself is anti-town, as it clogs up the thread and makes it difficult to read), but when dealing with the only significant thing that has yet happened in this thread, he simply shrugs it off as:
On November 13 2012 09:46 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Eh. If it's down to lylo we'll need to take a strong look at it if he's alive. Other than that, nothing much to talk about with the claim
For someone who is analytical enough to attempt to judge marv's early game reactions, he's sure not being analytical about my claim. This smells scummy to me.
##vote debears
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On November 13 2012 10:02 strongandbig wrote:
also fuck you zboson i wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt since then people couldn't say "oh he's fakeclaiming miller must mean he's scum" when i fakeclaim miller as scum
but now if i did that people would be like "two millers what are the odds" and then probably lynch you so no good on that one
Glad I beat you to it.
Interesting way to claim VT though. Actually I find that suspicious as fuck.
##Unvote
##Vote strongandbig
Debears, I hope your posting improves throughout this game. Also, what do you mean by "that argument again?".
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On November 13 2012 10:09 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:07 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 10:02 strongandbig wrote:
also fuck you zboson i wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt since then people couldn't say "oh he's fakeclaiming miller must mean he's scum" when i fakeclaim miller as scum
but now if i did that people would be like "two millers what are the odds" and then probably lynch you so no good on that one ^^^^^^claim The VT claim is significant why exactly?
Scum just love implying they are town.
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@Hapa: To be honest, I've had an opposite reaction from iamp's trusting of me. I think scum would think twice before openly accepting any townie claim. In his last scum game, iirc, he was much pickier on his town reads. May be wrong here.
@debears
On November 13 2012 10:16 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 13 2012 10:02 strongandbig wrote:
also fuck you zboson i wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt since then people couldn't say "oh he's fakeclaiming miller must mean he's scum" when i fakeclaim miller as scum
but now if i did that people would be like "two millers what are the odds" and then probably lynch you so no good on that one Glad I beat you to it. Interesting way to claim VT though. Actually I find that suspicious as fuck. ##Unvote##Vote strongandbigDebears, I hope your posting improves throughout this game. Also, what do you mean by "that argument again?". z-bo, I face an onslaught of fluff accusations d1 last game. And, in the end, was night killed d1 after having 2/3 of my top reads being the two scum :D
Great, grats. So you suffer an onslaught of fluff accusations day one, and yet you still plague the thread with fluff? Do you find nothing wrong with that?
@marv
So you say that you fit best the description of actively lurking, and pretty much continue to do that? Tell me more.
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DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do.
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It seems to me people are thinking too much of my posts, expecting some sort of brilliant day one cases. Disagreeing with my logic does not make me scum.
That should pretty much handle the vast chunk of shit I got the last few pages.
There are, however, some things I'd like to point out during these last events, though:
First thing to note is how uncharacteristically bad BH's case is against me. He's basically saying I'm bullshitting with every post I make. While I agree my posts are not the bestest they can be, I'm not sure why that implies I'm scum.
He says this one thing in particular though:
ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks.
Note two things.
1) He's saying I'm setting up to look good as a wagon starter.
This is balls-to-the wall dumb. How am I a wagon starter just for having the first vote? Also, as he himself noted, I did not write a full essay regarding why I think SnB is scum. I voted for him for implying that he is town, and that's basically it. If I wanted to become a "wagon starter", that's obviously the exact opposite of what I should do, I would make a much more elaborate case.
Ironically, I could say the same about BH and his case on me, and with much more validity, as he actually goes deep in his case on me, and seems somehow certain of my alignment, something which he leaves very clear later on:
...I actually want to lynch ZB, and ZB is actually scum....
Now, I'm not scum, so in my pov he is pretty much full of shit with this remark. There's a difference between bad logic, the thing he is calling me on bullshitting, and actual bullshitting, which is what this "wagon starting" remark actually is.
2) He's saying my filter is short, and it's clear I'm not helping.
Again, completely ironic and hypocritical.
He has only three completely useless posts up until this one:
On November 13 2012 15:38 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:On November 13 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:42 marvellosity wrote:On November 13 2012 11:40 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote:
Whats everybody think of bh he is like a very good player when he is town from what i saw and here he really hasent done anything despite being here tell me what you guys think. Give him a chance. He is one of those guys I would 100% never lynch day one because the benefits of him being town vastly out weigh the risks of him being scum. From what I have heard around the grapevine however he is fairly easy to read as scum so we should be fine to take a look at him later on in the game. you kidding? I'd lynch him day 1 in a heartbeat if I thought he was scum. Well. That is fine. But I am not going to lynch him day one when he is a very good town player and the only case against him so far is that he is lurking. The night (or day in terms of our game i guess!) is young, I wouldn't call anyone a lurker just yet. But I agree with marv that people who give off scum vibes should get the vote and find it odd that you are basically stating that you wouldn't vote for him no matter what ;o. Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose. Honestly I think it's bad to tie yourself down with ideas like that. If someone's playing scummy, they're playing scummy. My scum play isn't amazing, but due to my extreme sex appeal and enormous intelligence and penis, I can assure you that it's improved a great deal. Mostly it's due to my large penis-- it is quite a monstrosity. It works as a pad, even. Back on topic, don't feel like you can't vote or push people because of possible contributions. This kind of play is lazy and puts preconceived notions of what certain players are worth ahead of behavioral analysis. Someone voting for me because they legitimately think I'm scum and they have the cojones to do it is infinitely more helpful to town than someone not voting me because I'm a sexy baller. That being said, iamperfection's vote is pretty typical iamperfection throwing his vote around trying to pressure people but not doing it effectively. He needs to realize that you should vote people when you want to lynch them, or else you won't be taken seriously.
The second paragraph is completely fluffy, he's not actually saying anything.
That being said, I would like everyone to pay attention to the bolded on the third paragraph. He heavily, heavily thrashes me for being weak on my vote on SnB. Let's ignore all the others, especially DP (who voted TWICE on SnB, without saying anything). Let's focus on what he says here on iamp - and this is important. He says that iamp is throwing his vote around to pressure people, and that's all A-ok.
Now pause and think here. I'll quote what he said about that on me for clarity:
....S&B's "accidental" "vt claim" (both of those are in question) could be suspicious. But Z-B doesn't explain why. He doesn't set up a scum motive. He just slaps down a vote and bails. This is a chance to look like a townie wagon-started without doing analysis or writing the kind of long posts that could reveal his own scum motives. When Hapa rightly calls him on it .....
and
....A town player would lay out his own thought process right away so that others understand what he's thinking. He'd respond to s&B and push the wagon, not just slap down a vote and a bad explanation.....
Now contrast that to what he said about iamp's voting. On iamp, he is completely casual regarding his voting. On his case on me, however, he's aggressive and incisive , as you can clearly tell from the quotes I posted above.
Why does this make him scummy? Because it shows clear signs of fabrication, as one can easily infer from the quotes above. His views on "casual voting" are in complete contrast.
One more thing, that I ignored earlier. If he feels so strongly about me voting SnB without giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE??
Townie Motivation: none.
Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim.
tl;dr
1) Blazinghand's case on me is uncharacteristically bad. It's also not consistent with his townie play on Liquid City. Look at his progression on Shiaopi, who was incidentally also making uncharacteristically bad cases as well.
2) Blazinghand is being supremely inconsistent, contradictory and hypocritical of what he defines as scum-motivated and what not, showing signs of someone who is merely fabricating cases, as detailed above.
I tried to be as clear as possible here, because I don't want people to feel like this is just OMGUS.
My votes on SnB and debears were more pressure votes, as if that wasn't pretty much clear.
This one on blazinghand, is not. I think he's the best lynch so far, as everything I've stated seem to point on him being scum.
##Unvote
##Vote Blazinghand
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On November 14 2012 01:09 Blazinghand wrote:
When I get home I'll address that travesty againsf the human language that ZB thinks is a case but is in fact and OMGUS
What the hell is this supposed to mean? Are you going to correct my grammar?
Glad you hated the case I've put on you
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On iamp
I hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is:
On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:
Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his. do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games.
What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<.
Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird.
I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone.
I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece".
That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn.
Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post.
Thrawn, however, is unusually inactive. I remember him as townie being much, much more active than this. He's actually managed to make one entrance post: [ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=19#361 ].
Shows some suspicions, ask some questions, and is gone like the wind.
debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this:
On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote:
I don't understand why it's scum play.
1. Believes miller claim
2. Later decides he's scummy
The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it?
Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong.
Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised.
@debears
I'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp.
1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions?
2) Here you try to make this contrast:
1) He cares about how the town is viewing him
2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote
-note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time
I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy.
Interpret this as: me not buying it.
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Sorry, not buying your response.
On November 14 2012 06:16 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:It seems to me people are thinking too much of my posts, expecting some sort of brilliant day one cases. Disagreeing with my logic does not make me scum. That should pretty much handle the vast chunk of shit I got the last few pages. There are, however, some things I'd like to point out during these last events, though: First thing to note is how uncharacteristically bad BH's case is against me. He's basically saying I'm bullshitting with every post I make. While I agree my posts are not the bestest they can be, I'm not sure why that implies I'm scum. He says this one thing in particular though: ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. Note two things. 1) He's saying I'm setting up to look good as a wagon starter. This is balls-to-the wall dumb. How am I a wagon starter just for having the first vote? Also, as he himself noted, I did not write a full essay regarding why I think SnB is scum. I voted for him for implying that he is town, and that's basically it. If I wanted to become a "wagon starter", that's obviously the exact opposite of what I should do, I would make a much more elaborate case. Ironically, I could say the same about BH and his case on me, and with much more validity, as he actually goes deep in his case on me, and seems somehow certain of my alignment, something which he leaves very clear later on: ...I actually want to lynch ZB, and ZB is actually scum.... Now, I'm not scum, so in my pov he is pretty much full of shit with this remark. There's a difference between bad logic, the thing he is calling me on bullshitting, and actual bullshitting, which is what this "wagon starting" remark actually is. You were starting a weak wagon. This is the easiest way to start a wagon as scum. You wanted to take a position that LOOKED good, which is started a wagon, without the commitment and risk that comes with it. Something you could back off of or move away from easily-- and look how you did. It was a vote with a ghost of a case rather than a real one. And you backtracked it quite well, but the point stands. Why "started a wagon"? I don't follow that terminology at all. First of all, I don't see how "starting a wagon" makes you look good. Scum are just as capable of starting a wagon as anyone else. Again, I could easily say the same thing about how you started a wagon on me. What you seem to be using to distinguish between the two is that I didn't make a case, hile you did. Right now I can't tell whether you are incapable of seeing it as a pressure vote as town (which to me, it seems actually quite obvious), or whether you are just trying to "look good" by appearing to be a confident townie.Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:2) He's saying my filter is short, and it's clear I'm not helping. Again, completely ironic and hypocritical.He has only three completely useless posts up until this one: On November 13 2012 15:38 Blazinghand wrote:On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:On November 13 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:42 marvellosity wrote:On November 13 2012 11:40 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote:
Whats everybody think of bh he is like a very good player when he is town from what i saw and here he really hasent done anything despite being here tell me what you guys think. Give him a chance. He is one of those guys I would 100% never lynch day one because the benefits of him being town vastly out weigh the risks of him being scum. From what I have heard around the grapevine however he is fairly easy to read as scum so we should be fine to take a look at him later on in the game. you kidding? I'd lynch him day 1 in a heartbeat if I thought he was scum. Well. That is fine. But I am not going to lynch him day one when he is a very good town player and the only case against him so far is that he is lurking. The night (or day in terms of our game i guess!) is young, I wouldn't call anyone a lurker just yet. But I agree with marv that people who give off scum vibes should get the vote and find it odd that you are basically stating that you wouldn't vote for him no matter what ;o. Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose. Honestly I think it's bad to tie yourself down with ideas like that. If someone's playing scummy, they're playing scummy. My scum play isn't amazing, but due to my extreme sex appeal and enormous intelligence and penis, I can assure you that it's improved a great deal. Mostly it's due to my large penis-- it is quite a monstrosity. It works as a pad, even. Back on topic, don't feel like you can't vote or push people because of possible contributions. This kind of play is lazy and puts preconceived notions of what certain players are worth ahead of behavioral analysis. Someone voting for me because they legitimately think I'm scum and they have the cojones to do it is infinitely more helpful to town than someone not voting me because I'm a sexy baller. That being said, iamperfection's vote is pretty typical iamperfection throwing his vote around trying to pressure people but not doing it effectively. He needs to realize that you should vote people when you want to lynch them, or else you won't be taken seriously. The second paragraph is completely fluffy, he's not actually saying anything. That being said, I would like everyone to pay attention to the bolded on the third paragraph. He heavily, heavily thrashes me for being weak on my vote on SnB. Let's ignore all the others, especially DP (who voted TWICE on SnB, without saying anything). Let's focus on what he says here on iamp - and this is important. He says that iamp is throwing his vote around to pressure people, and that's all A-ok. Yeah it was based on iamp being generally a bad player but there's also a difference between starting a wagon with no case and jumping on one with no case. In retrospect iamp was not immune to blame, but saying something like "he didn't attack iamperfection hard enough" or "one paragraph in this post was a bit fluffy" (when in fact it was not, i'm trying to help the players in this game play well) isn't a legitimate critique of my posting. Huh? Let me get this straight:
starting a wagon with no case = scum.
Jumping on a wagon with no case = less scum or townie.
This because in the first part, you are trying to make yourself look good?Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:Now pause and think here. I'll quote what he said about that on me for clarity: ....S&B's "accidental" "vt claim" (both of those are in question) could be suspicious. But Z-B doesn't explain why. He doesn't set up a scum motive. He just slaps down a vote and bails. This is a chance to look like a townie wagon-started without doing analysis or writing the kind of long posts that could reveal his own scum motives. When Hapa rightly calls him on it ..... and ....A town player would lay out his own thought process right away so that others understand what he's thinking. He'd respond to s&B and push the wagon, not just slap down a vote and a bad explanation..... Now contrast that to what he said about iamp's voting. On iamp, he is completely casual regarding his voting. On his case on me, however, he's aggressive and incisive , as you can clearly tell from the quotes I posted above. Why does this make him scummy? Because it shows clear signs of fabrication, as one can easily infer from the quotes above. His views on "casual voting" are in complete contrast. One more thing, that I ignored earlier. If he feels so strongly about me voting SnB without giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE??Townie Motivation: none. Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim. You've made a good case for why DP and iamperfection are also scummy, but nothing here about why you're not. In retrospect, I shouldn't have implicitly rule out the possibility of you AND iamperfection being scum together. What do you want me to say? I'm not scum because I'm town? You want a self-arranged case on why I'm town? No, what I can do is explain why your case against me is bad, which I did.
With the DP and imperfection argument, I've done just that - explained why your case is bad. Your arguments for finding me scum are more than applicable to other players, yet for some reason, you choose to target me, the guy who claimed miller.Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
tl;dr1) Blazinghand's case on me is uncharacteristically bad. It's also not consistent with his townie play on Liquid City. Look at his progression on Shiaopi, who was incidentally also making uncharacteristically bad cases as well. 2) Blazinghand is being supremely inconsistent, contradictory and hypocritical of what he defines as scum-motivated and what not, showing signs of someone who is merely fabricating cases, as detailed above. I tried to be as clear as possible here, because I don't want people to feel like this is just OMGUS. My votes on SnB and debears were more pressure votes, as if that wasn't pretty much clear. This one on blazinghand, is not. I think he's the best lynch so far, as everything I've stated seem to point on him being scum. ##Unvote##Vote Blazinghand And, I think it's scummy here that A) you've backed away from your SnB vote and claimed it was just pressure when the wagon began to fall apart, just like you set up for when you voted B) this is basically a straight-up OMGUS Just like I did with debears. Not because "it fell apart", but because it was a pressure vote. The lack of a proper case is a testament to that.I had moved my vote over to iamperfection, and he seems scummy but I really can't ignore a shit OMGUS of this magnitude. Rereading I've realized it was a mistake to ever unvote you. And I am not threatened by your claim because a miller claim is meaningless-- it's a null tell. It's never factored into my case or my analysis of you, but you sure seem insecure about it. Did anyone say you felt threatened by my claim? Or are you just casually throwing that out there, such as a defensive scum?##unvote
##vote ZB
My response is in red.
Couple of important things to note:
1) He acknowledges that DP and iamp are also scummy for their votes (which, according to his description of "classic scum play", is even more applicable to them than to me), and yet still decides that for some reason I come out looking scummier.
2) He keeps insisting I'm "starting a wagon to look good". I insist that that is illogical and dumb. When someone lands the first vote on someone, they don't know whether other people will vote or not. They don't know if they are "starting a wagon or not". So let's assume that what he means is "making the first vote" instead of "starting a wagon".
Now, the main thing I got from his post is: making the first vote without a case. Let's assume that that argument has some validity, and that everyone who sheeps with no case is townier than the guy with the first vote.
If that is true, than what about these other cases:
First vote on DP:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
I don't think anyone will be against millers claiming and a lurker lynch policy. If they are they should speak up. Otherwise we really don't need to mention it again. Oh hum I need something more controversial then. Howabout the lynch DarthPunk policy? I have a hard time reading him and rolls scum 66% of the time when I'm in game with him. Sample size be damned! ##Vote DarthPunk
First vote on marv:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:31 debears wrote:
##Vote Marvellosity
I promised you Marv
First vote on Hapahauli:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:33 iamperfection wrote:
Time to fight ?
## Vote Hapahauli
He had much better ways to start discussion if he wanted to pick a name basically at random. so i say he is probably full of shit. You could have done a random gambit where we could have had some discussion built around it. You didn't
Now lets discuss.
Since he didn't mention these, it's clear he has some sensitivity regarding the seriousness of certain votes. For some reason, he interpreted mine as being dead-serious-I-want-to-lynch-scum. Let me quote my vote on him for reference:
On November 13 2012 10:13 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:02 strongandbig wrote:
also fuck you zboson i wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt since then people couldn't say "oh he's fakeclaiming miller must mean he's scum" when i fakeclaim miller as scum
but now if i did that people would be like "two millers what are the odds" and then probably lynch you so no good on that one Glad I beat you to it. Interesting way to claim VT though. Actually I find that suspicious as fuck. ##Unvote##Vote strongandbigDebears, I hope your posting improves throughout this game. Also, what do you mean by "that argument again?".
To him, this post is clearly me trying to start a wagon. I find this absurd. If I wanted to look good by starting a wagon, would I not bother to make a case that people would actually follow? Does he honestly think I expected three other people to vote SnB as well due to this post? He's basically saying that if three other people hadn't voted on him, then I'd be much less guilty. I can say this due to his ginourmous insistence that I'm, again, "trying to get town cred for starting a wagon" , which, to him, makes perfect sense. That implies that if I hadn't started a wagon (i,e wagon = more people voting for the same person as me), then he wouldn't have been using my first vote on SnB as an argument.
One can argue: "But ZB! He said you tried, not that you did!" . That is very true. Except that by that logic, every first vote on someone is an "attempt to start a wagon", which is silly.
Hope that makes sense as to why I find that his main reason for voting me is absurd, and uncharacteristic of someone with a decent townie play.
3) Clearly says that making the first vote on someone is scummier than sheeping a case, if both have no reasoning behind it. Because the guy with the first vote is "trying to look good", while the second guy is pretty swell.
4) Up until now I've assumed his premise that my vote came with no reasoning, which is quite untrue. Quoting myself in a later post:
Scum just love implying they are town. .
To which he conveniently dismisses that as "a crap explanation". That is, he acknowledges that there IS an explanation, but it's just so bad that it has to come from scum, defining my vote on him as "trying to start a weak wagon".
5) Also note that he said I unvoted SnB "as soon as it was hopeless". Except that I unvoted SnB because I changed my vote to BH.
Concluding...
I find his reaction to my case against him and his second bout further testaments to the fact that he is scum. So:
- He's purposefully being insanely dense. He's conjecturing up his own thoughts on how a scum would behave in my position, and is completely obtuse to interpreting my SnB vote as a "pressure vote", which seems to be clear that I wasn't like OMG LET'S LYNCH SNB!!!
- He maintains this ridiculous idea of me "trying to look good by starting a (weak) wagon".
- Doesn't make it clear why I'm getting his vote instead of other people, on which his arguments are clearly more applicable than on me.
- Is too convinced by his own case, which I've done my best (and a couple of others as well) to say how bad it was.
I cannot see this coming from townie play, especially regarding someone like BH, and will maintain my vote on him. I hope that by this post you can clearly see how he is - at the very least - playing this game very badly, and hope that you will agree with me that this guy is scum.
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Getting lazy much? I said a whoooole lot more than that.
On November 14 2012 07:24 Blazinghand wrote:(...)
It's not absurd, because you literally did start a wagon. You hopped your vote around until something stuck so you could look good.
Exactly, thanks for confirming this. You are using the fact that the wagon actually started as an argument. It follows that if the wagon hadn't started, than I would look much townier. How in the world is an argument based on the actions of others valid?? I can only see this being close to valid in associative tells, which is not the case.
Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 07:17 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hope that makes sense as to why I find that his main reason for voting me is absurd, and uncharacteristic of someone with a decent townie play.
3) Clearly says that making the first vote on someone is scummier than sheeping a case, if both have no reasoning behind it. Because the guy with the first vote is "trying to look good", while the second guy is pretty swell.
See it's funny cause you DID unvote S&B quickly, but he was the vote you stuck to when a wagon formed. Iamp is scummy too.
Yea, and I started pursuing you. You are casually dismissing it as an OMGUS for me to back away from SnB. You still somehow feel my vote on him wasn't a pressure vote, and that I actually wanted to lynch him. You are also treating him as an obvious townie, which is not at all fathomable.
Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 07:17 Z-BosoN wrote:4) Up until now I've assumed his premise that my vote came with no reasoning, which is quite untrue. Quoting myself in a later post: Scum just love implying they are town. . To which he conveniently dismisses that as "a crap explanation". That is, he acknowledges that there IS an explanation, but it's just so bad that it has to come from scum, defining my vote on him as "trying to start a weak wagon". 5) Also note that he said I unvoted SnB "as soon as it was hopeless". Except that I unvoted SnB because I changed my vote to BH. AFTER I attacked you and your crap SnB case. It's a straight up OMGUS from you.
No, it had some valid, unfabricated, true arguments, not at all contrived as implied in "straight up OMGUS".
Your goal has been to back down from your case. I see you saying "especially regarding someone like BH"-- if you think this is my scum meta, or if you think me being confident or aggressive if my scum meta, you are just an oyster with your head in the sand.
Yea, that's a very nice explanation. I also did that with debears, you know. I felt that my vote on him was weak and not getting traction, so I set up a very extensive case on SnB - just like with you - just so I had an excuse to back off.
...How in the hell is that "classic scum"? That line of thought from scum is absurd. My god.
Let me know if someone else finds this plausible in the slightest sense of the word.
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Sigh... I don't know your meta dude. I'm judging you by this game, with slight reference to LC mafia, and I find your play to be insanely weak. I contrasted your play to that of LC, and decided that it was not only weak, but uncharacteristically so, and went for it.
Don't be arrogant enough to not realize how faulty the picture you are trying to paint on me is.
Well, there is no choice but to unvote you, but try to remove your goggle vision and see that your arguments against me are absurdly weak.
Gonna take a break and reevaluate.
Fuck
##Unvote
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Allrighty back.
Dammit BH, I really think you should have saved your claim until later, you gave up too easily :/
I wasn't as certain on you as it might have seemed, but I wanted to gauge your reaction by throwing you against the wall.
Anyways, here's what I think of this game so far.
marv is likely town. He's a difficult town read to give, but his posting here seems genuine, and is much different than in GSL. Either he's trying much harder as scum or he's town. For now I'll go with the latter.
Clarity is likely town. Just look at him being all cute under a major dirt-flinging fest. I'm townie, and so must be BH right now, so if I know my XXX analysis straight, scum hate posting during these sort of fightsituations, and It's harder for me to see scum posting during all of that like he did.
Kickstart is likely town. He seems very genuine with his thoughts, and his posts, to me, seem townie-oriented.
iamp is likely town. If his entire 180 attention-drawing isn't enough, then his activeness during all of this also indicate to me he is town.
This is how I feel right now regarding townsfolk.
Originally I had SnB down as town, but I feel he is null right now to me, I dunno, have a hard time reading him. Would (maybe?) give a town read on him?
Thrawn is null to me. I can't see him being this quiet either as townie or as scum. He really really has to explain himself or be replaced thoug...
Crossfire is afk.
Now towards the scummers
Hapauli. Much quieter this game. Much less present. Disappeared during all of my interaction with BH, only to appear after the claim. I don't buy his cases, especially the one on iamp. Completely ignored my first case on BH, and town Hapa usually comments on everything. In the beginning, put on some light pressure on DP, then unvoted him from some easy explanation only to never mention him again. Not a play I'd see hapa do.
debears. Began the game with excessive posting, made a poor sheepy follow-up on iamp. Disappeared and has drastically reduced his posting. Seems pretty damn scummy.
DarthPunk Doesn't have much to work with, is likely working on the other game. I find it weird how little attention he's getting from some of the scummier folk. A bad tell, but he's here mostly by elimination.
Hopeless1der Not sure of his play yet. It's comparable to that of LVII, but I can see him as scum. Dunno.
These are just my thoughts, mainly to get discussion going and for BH to see what he thinks (there's still a chance he's scum, but I'm assuming he is town for now).
I haven't decided who I want to lynch yet, these are just my thoughts from my current level of reading. Tomorrow I'll be back probably with more powerful cases.
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I'm down to lynching hopeless1der.
No comment on BH
I find this point, mentioned before, to be quite good. He not only didn't mention BH's claim, but he attacked someone for not mentioning it. It sounds very contrived and doesn't seem to have strong town motivation at all.
Meta
What seals the deal for me is his meta from the last game I played with him, LVII. From the start, his game has been very different. Observe one of his entrance posts:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=21#402
Note that he is aggressive and makes a case right off the bat against forumite. BAM. Vote. Doesn't give a shit. Is assertive, aggressive.
What of this game? Look at his only post that comes close to being significant.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#438
Makes a big post, doesn't conclude shit. Seems just like the ordinary "look at me scumhunting". In this game he shows a weaker, less assertive version of him in LVII. He has a bunch of posts going after debears, and he's not going anywhere with it..
He only votes debears when debears is already a viable candidate, has two votes on him. Here is his voting post:
On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim?
Basically votes on debears for not pushing his top scum read. Doesn't add any of the the other arguments he used here.
That does not sound like anyone who's scum hunting. He says his vote is OMGUS, and states ONE reason for pursuing debears. He spends a long time focusing on debears but never actually voting. This, of course, much unlike his own play in LVII. Look at how he treats his cases in LVII, and how greatly it contrasts with his play this game:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=51#1015
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=51#1013
He's using every single argument he had already made, and is being a LOT more insistent and convincing than that. I'm not the best judge of meta, but that is in too great a contrast with his play on this game, in my opinion.
Why not debears?
I've done some thinking on this and I'm not sure he's scum. Hapa's main argument of not pushing his scumreads are decent, but I've mislynched people on that count before. Judging by his play, and comparing that to his last game as scum, I don't see it being too similar.
When he was scum, his posts were much longer. In day one, he spent a lot of time writing out big cases and looked much townier (lol, weird, but true). I can see him sheeping on iamp with that kind of mentality, based on such a weak argument. I think scum debears would rather make his own case on someone and be happy with it.
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
Conclusion
I find hopeless' contrast in meta much worse in this game. He's being useless and much less present than in LVII. Read his filter there, read it here, and see if you come to the same conclusion I did. He doesn't look like he's trying to get debears lynched. Especially how much effort he put on in LVII.
##Vote Hopeless1der
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On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why?
He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment.
I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all.
I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said?
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Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum.
Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him?
10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread.
If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.
Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind.
##Unvote
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Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town.
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On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game
It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting.
So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot:
On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him.
And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so.
/rant
Anyways, bring it on marv you slut.
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Oh wow I got uber sniped. Hang on.
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Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red.
On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him  Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson
So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73
but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty.
Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum?
Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here.
B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration).
So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument.
Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it.
Yep. Z-BosoN = townie.
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I wouldn't mind, hell no
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@clarity
On November 15 2012 09:42 Clarity_nl wrote:
Z-BosoN you addressed the meta stuff, but how do you feel about your play so far this game, and marv's analysis of it?
His analysis on my meta is pretty straightforward, and true, but he's wrong on that count for my reasons above.
On the DP/hopeless afair, well... not proud of it, but I'd say that's a fairly small part of his case once you take away the meta. I'll try to reassess my read on DP in a sec, and try before deadline.
@marv
On November 15 2012 09:44 marvellosity wrote:
Z-Boson, how come you're so certain about things this game?
Because of Liquid City. I had the right reads, but no one gave a shit because I felt the way I was wording made me feel too insecure and not taken seriously. So right now I'm avoiding words like "I think, it might, probably...". Still saying them sometimes, but avoiding them.
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Allright let's consolidate.
Hapa, this post by debears: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=53#1054
And his interaction with you really makes me think he is town. Do you remember our newbie game? I started finding him scum, and he disagreed heavily with my logic, and focused on me based on that (and my case was very similar to yours: weak weak reasoning for his suspicious actions).
That post I cited makes me think the same. He seems like he genuinely thinks you as scum, and he really really disagrees with your logic. This is almost analogous, and I'd really not want to lynch him now.
Regarding DP, I'm not sure about that marv. debears was getting hammered on, and one of the argumetns was "weak over-explanation" for a case. As scum, he could easily have felt that if he sheeped, he would look a lot more scummier, so he went ahead with an original case on someone with little suspicion on him. I'm going to go read the rest of his filter now.
What is the reasoning on crossfire? A policy lynch? Isn't he just going to go get himself replaced?
If I were to policy lynch, I'd go with thrawn, who hasn't done anything all game and is null in his posting.
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lol wtf. He seems pretty damn clueless to me, as well.
Too little time to decide on DP, too little to work with, can't decide!!! He has some townie-looking posts and some scummy ones. Ack
Right now it's either crossfire or thrawn. Gimme a min.
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What??? Did you not read what I answered back??
All right, gonna receive massive scrutiny for this buttfuckit.
DP
What I was finding scummy on him was his whinyness and his self-allusion as being a potential mislynch.
Stupid fucking case on clarity which shows intent on "not sheeping".
Then, when I called him out on the possibility that he might be seeing that (act of sheeping) as a risky move, he decided to insta-sheep marv.
##Vote DarthPunk.
If anyone is seriously considering me, READ MY DEFENSE, AND THINK OF MY CONTRIBUTIONS. FFS, it makes the perfectest of sense. I had a post that got SNIPED that already made an allusion to how I was posting, WITHOUT having seen marv's case on me. That means that I was AWARE of this fact. If I was aware of the fact that I was posting less, even though I did that as scum in my newbie game, WHY would I do that here as scum. Absolutely no reason at all.
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debears, he just did, numbnuts
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I am also gonna be a misslynch. I want to lynch Hopeless, if anyone else wants to, besides debears.
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Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
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SIgh... looks like town decided to sheep a read to which I gave a perfectly plausible explanation.
Lynch Hapahauli.
That's about it. Can't fucking believe this.
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##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless1der
At least in my future games, I'll be able to keep this much better and improved meta up.
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Hapa, there's a ton of reasons, it's not your exchange with debears. Unfortunately I'm getting lynched because people are not capable of self thought, even though I tried very fucking hard this game and tried very fucking hard to improve. Unbe-fucking-lievable.
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LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.
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##Unvote
##Vote hapahauli
Is what I meant.
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WHAT NOW?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
DEBEARS FUCKING HIGH FIVE
I'LL SAY WHY I THOUGHT HAPA WAS SCUM WHEN THIS IS OVER.
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WHAT THE FUCK IS UP!
TOWN I FUCKING LOVE YOU NOW I FUCKING FUCKING LOVE YOU NOW!!
BH, YOU ARE NEXT IN LINE BUDDY.
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On November 15 2012 11:15 debears wrote:
scoreboard update
Z-Bo 1
Debears 1
Nah man, I figured he was scum due to totally different reasons than yours. I just didn't think we would have lynched him based on my arguments alone, and I didn't want to get in a verbal fight with him (he's so fucking difficult to deal with).
His interaction with you I'd say was fairly regular.
Let us compare dicks when the game is over though, and right now REJOICE!!!!
Town fucking awesome. I fucking love you guys. I fucking fucking love you guys. YOU lynched hapa. And now the information we get is OUTSTANDING. Scum is almost 100% in my wagon (maaaaybe except BH, but nah, not voting him tomorrow). I'm obvious not fucking scum, my reads were obviously my last will.
Fuck yea.
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Dp, are you high on drugs?
Seriously you find it perfectly reasonable that I was thinking that town would unvote me and vote for some like hapahauli without a fucking case. Right. Finish your shrooms and look at the real scum who are on my wagon.
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Ah, DP is probably trying to sound smart and being all conspiracy-theory.
It's very very VERY difficult for scum on my wagon or DP's to accept unvoting and voting hapa, last three minutes, without a fucking case. BH looks scummy as fuck from his play alone, but his actions are completely on the opposite side. I was intent on lynching him earlier but now I'm not so sure.
Don't be all stupid and shit. Scum is almost guaranteedly on my wagon. Search for them thinking on this alone.
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Guys, no one is confirmed anything. The odds are excruciatingly high that scum is on my wagon though. Fucking think. Paint yourselves as scum viewing a retarded wagon without a case on one of your teammates.
Bussing usually comes when there is a good case against someone and the risk of looking bad.
May there be scum on hapa's wagon? Yea. Both of them on his wagon? I really fucking doubt it.
Odds are there is at least one scum on my wagon. Let's think on that, shall we?
Anyways, lovely end of day, going to go sleep. See you guys tomorrow.
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On November 15 2012 20:26 marvellosity wrote:
I'm not so sure. He shouldn't have preached at me though, like I'm not allowed to get reads wrong? Dunno. He's up in the air until that like 10 pages around lynch time get re-read laters.
I was extremely pissed I was getting lynched due to something I believe I'd explained quite well, in my view, and yet I was going to get killed over other people who had much better cases on them just because you said so, telling people to sheep you and that's about it. Those same people probably didnt read a thing I wrote or said, and just put their vote on me because ... yea.
I thought hapa was scum, but since it was mostly gut feeling, I didn't think I'd be able to lynch him day one. I've indicated this in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=36#714
Here's what I make of the people on hapa's wagon using the logic that they had suspicions on hapa and didn't like the votes on me. Gonna just link the posts for clarity.
Debears is most likely town. The only reason he is scum is that he and hapa purposefully decided to smash at each other in day one. I'm not sure what to make of hapa's over-insistence that debears is scum, but maybe that's just him mimicking his town tunnel vision.
Kickstart's vote also makes a lot of sense from a townie perspective.
Here he shows he wants to lynch hapa..
Here he shows he doesn't like a lynch on me.
These two I'd consider town from last nights events.
Hopeless1der is someone who I keep changing my mind about. It seems awfully safe and convenient to keep his vote on debears. Basically says:
On November 15 2012 10:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:55 Clarity_nl wrote:
We're not killing debears. We're killing either zbo or you, so you better vote zbo. Unless you're superawesometown who sacrifices himself for the sake of town. I'd buy that. fuck that, debears is still an option. Im not voting Zbo unless it saves me
So I could totally see scum doing this.
Marv, you said you had a town read on him, do you still think this?
There is one thing I'd like to know from DarthPunk though. He said this right before he died:
On November 15 2012 10:34 DarthPunk wrote:
I am flipping town.
Lynch Z-Bo and clarity.
BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely.
Marv is 100% town
Debears is my second strongest town read. You got this debears. <3
Perfection town.
Crossfire town
S&B town
Hopeless null
Everyone I missed. Null and forgettable apparently. Never been mis-lynched before. I blew chunks this game
GO town!!! <#
This post clearly says that he thinks me and clarity are actually scum, and that BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely.
Then he makes these two following posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. WIFOM
and finally:
On November 15 2012 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:
##Unvote
##vote: HAPA
So, DarthPunk, I'd like you to explain your thought process behind this. Why did you change your mind regarding me and hapa?
Don't tell me just this:
On November 15 2012 10:53 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote:##UnvoteYeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl Can we please lynch this guy? Please? ##Vote Debears Scum. YOu just tried to form a band wagon on me for this very thing you are doing right now. You are fucking derailing the fucking lynch and there is no way in hell debears is going to be lynched. Also town hapa would never do this so iam now talking to Scum hapa whom I dislike.
Sufficed. Hopeless is also someone who "derailed" the lynch according to this post of yours. Do you find him to be scum? Be more clear here. Don't come at me with your pissed off act and answer as best you can, if you are town.
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iamperfection is also someone on hapa's train I can't make much sense of. In GSL, he showed that he has no problem bussing. Did so with marv getting lynched on day two quite fast. Now let's take a look at his filter:
He's basically been sheeping marv like mad this game:
On November 15 2012 10:11 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:10 marvellosity wrote:
why is he making that post instead of bothering to read the thread, where BH is clearly not a possibility?
It's just nonsense. exactly its so terrible.
On November 15 2012 10:45 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:45 marvellosity wrote:
yeah this is gonna be a mislynch i agree ## Unvote
On November 15 2012 10:49 iamperfection wrote:
## Vote z-boson
in marv i trust
When suddenly, out of nowhere, he says:
On November 15 2012 10:54 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:53 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 10:53 debears wrote:
Save Hapa for d2 BH yeah basically this well i actually wouldnt mind doing it now this is not town hapa. going herp derp scumslip scumslip
I'd like to know what herp derp "scumslips" he's referring to.
When going through his filter, the only mention of scumslip I found is this:
On November 15 2012 10:30 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:Holy scumslip DP iamp - good stuff OK. I was not suggesting we switch on to clarity. What I was doing is making a case I was convinced of as I promised. Obviously we are not going to lynch him. Did you see a vote? ##unvote##Vote DarthPunk ya i dont like that hapa i wouldn't call it a scum slip its a more of being stupid slip.
Which to me doesn't look much like a scumslip (or stupid-slip)
So I would also like him to clarify why he suddenly decided that he was going to not sheep marv and go for hapa.
Also, this is open to interpretation, but his exchange with hapa, regarding my explanation, makes it seem like he's more suspicious of me than of hapa
On November 15 2012 09:58 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:50 Hapahauli wrote:http://postimage.org/image/9ilt0jqpt/Hapa = Melvin Z-Bo = Paulo The above is a small snip of a skype convo we had a few weeks back. I obviously don't want to screenshot the whole thing (it goes on a while), but this should get the gist of it - Z-Bo really wanted to play a less-active style of play and was running it by me (I advised against it, but he was unconvinced throughout). This makes me think that this could be town Z-Bo. I know what Ver's guide says about the random 1-liners and what not but I really just disagree with it in this specific case. I think it's just a product of him wanting to post less. He could be scum, but at the end of the day, debears is much scummier to me. that all from the skype conversation? He doesn't really say much about changing his style fundamentally there just that he is going to post less and he failed to do so.
Especially when earlier on he agreed with the case on debears with hapa:
On November 14 2012 10:19 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 10:13 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:
i'm starting to ponder debears also Looking at debears, there's not much to say other than there's not much substance in his 4-page filter. Lots of short, 1/2 line posts with banter. He jumps on Hopeless really quickly, who's one of the easier targets in the game. He's then pretty quick to jump on iamperfection, and has been pushing that "read" since. As previously stated, his "vote post" looks like an overkill-case. But the thing that really sticks out to me is that he's been tunneling iamperfection for the last few hours yet still has his vote on Hopeless. He's using a lot of strong language against iamperfection (much stronger than against hopeless), and from his filter it looks like iamperfection is his top scumread. At this point he's much more content to push the read on iamperfection than his one on Hopeless, and I see no townie reason why his vote isn't where his mouth is. ##Unvote##Vote debears i might be able to get behind this but i will wait for him to respond. Looking at it your absolutely right because i had to double check i could have sworn his vote was on me but it in fact isn't. He did use strong language but didnt put the vote out there and was curios to see what others thought (Testing the waters maybe?) however i will wait for him to respond.
So, iamperfection, would like you, as well, to explain your thoughts, and be more clear on what you are referring to when you said "herp derp scumslip scumslip" and why you chose hapa over me.
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Blazinghand also needs to explain himself, of course, his voting pattern at lynch time was indubitably the worst of them all. Said "everything would make sense" after the flip, said I was gonna flip scum, said then BAM, let's form a wagon on Hapahauli. I mean, this doesn't sound like someone unsatisfied with their vote:
On November 15 2012 10:48 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 10:46 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
._. curse you DP for casting doubt into my heart. I'll just shoot you tonight with all my vigi bullets then
##unvote
##vote ZB ...........................................wat it'll all make sense after the flip! no explain fucking now ZB... will flip scum.
Going to move towards the people on my wagon now.
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Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts:
On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote:
I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him.
I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though.
Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy.
Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind.
Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!"
Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here:
On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote:
Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now. I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this. Anyway, I like this case by marv. + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote:@goodkarmaWell that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote:Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat:You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote:
@YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now. I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum. You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions. I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something. Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess. I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: (...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry
SolarSail (0): YourHarry
thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat
goodkarma (0): YourHarry
Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson
Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you.
Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote:Regarding YourHarry:Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: - First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. - YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. - The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. - On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched!+ Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] +
Final Vote Count:
Thrawn2112 (5): DarthPunk, Golbat, Solarsail, goodkarma, YourHarry, Z-BosoN, Obvious.660, Solarsail, YourHarry
Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, thrawn2112, Solarsail
YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695
goodkarma (0): Obvious.660
Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry
YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read.
##Unvote
##Vote: YourHarry
I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated.
Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote:
Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline:
Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat
Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar
GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious
Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out.
Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier.
Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": (...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: (...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson. ##Vote Z-boson
That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says.
On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote:
Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter.
So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow.
thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back.
Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless.
marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL.
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tl;dr:
I want to hear explanations from DarthPunk , iamperfection, and Blazinghand regarding their decisions in their vote choices, specifically to the points I addressed earlier.
I also want to suggest we lynch either Crossfire or thrawn. Some people said "fuck you" when I mentioned thrawn, but to that I say to just go look at the rest of his townie games, and note the clear contrast in difference.
Let me know what you guys think.
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On November 16 2012 03:38 Clarity_nl wrote:
I said fuck you because it was so last minute.
And what sayeth you know?
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On November 16 2012 06:28 DarthPunk wrote:
OK just got up. Hapa was super obvious scum at the end. there was no way to reconcile hapa's behaviour with his town play. While I might be highly suspicious of ZB I was sure of Hapa at that point.
I don't know if ZB is trying to imply that somehow I was being scummy by changing my reads when presented with new information. But that's what I did. I was positive I was going to get lynched and wanted to get my positions as soon to be confirmed town across.
For the record I am pretty sure ZB is scum.
He WIFOM bombed at the end, and they read as such rather than genuine attempts at catching scum.
Hapa tried to derail the ZB lynch and outed himself in the process.
This is on top of the case by marv.
When the lynch was going down yesterday I became highly suspicious of ZB/BH and hapa.
I'm not trying to imply anything. I want to certify my read on you. Why was Hapahauli super-obvious scum at the end? What made him change your mind?
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On November 16 2012 06:47 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 06:37 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 16 2012 06:28 DarthPunk wrote:
OK just got up. Hapa was super obvious scum at the end. there was no way to reconcile hapa's behaviour with his town play. While I might be highly suspicious of ZB I was sure of Hapa at that point.
I don't know if ZB is trying to imply that somehow I was being scummy by changing my reads when presented with new information. But that's what I did. I was positive I was going to get lynched and wanted to get my positions as soon to be confirmed town across.
For the record I am pretty sure ZB is scum.
He WIFOM bombed at the end, and they read as such rather than genuine attempts at catching scum.
Hapa tried to derail the ZB lynch and outed himself in the process.
This is on top of the case by marv.
When the lynch was going down yesterday I became highly suspicious of ZB/BH and hapa. I'm not trying to imply anything. I want to certify my read on you. Why was Hapahauli super-obvious scum at the end? What made him change your mind? I didn't change my mind. I was already suspicious of hapa. Read my death posts. Then he tried to derail the lynch far too late after trying to lynch me for making a case that wasn't on a leading candidate. He wanted to Vote for DEBEARS of all people when there was no way he was getting lynched. There was no way town Hapa would play that way.
Yes, and Hopeless wanted to do the same thing. As a matter of fact, he did. Does that make you suspicious of him also?
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I´ve been a bit busy today, and will be so tomorrow as well. I´m down with a SnB lynch right now. Tomorrow I´m going to check thrawn´s filter (djodref can´t really do much at this point...) and see if I still think so, when I find time.
Anyways, checking BH is the stupidest shit you can do, whoever said that above. Odds that he is scum are really low right now. Like I said, just lynch the people on my wagon and youll do just fine. (was right about one of them already. Debears, update the scoreboard will you )
Also, to those of you who think I´m scum, you are out of your fucking mind. That´s about it.
##Vote SnB
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Djodref, I want to hear your every thought.
First off, why are you voting bh? I´m not sure about your reasoning. Do you agree with my post on the likelihood of scum being on my wagon? What do you make of that assessment?
Also, besides blazinghand, who else would you say is scum, and why?
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Djodref can~t really do much at this point = dealing with thrawns filter, in cas ehtat wasn´t clear
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DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting.
1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim.
2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that.
3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today.
4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies.
5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.
Just so I'd come out looking good.
All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta.
And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway.
Sniped post:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting. So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so. /rant Anyways, bring it on marv you slut.
Reread please: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:37 Z-BosoN wrote:Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty. Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum? Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration). So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it. Yep. Z-BosoN = townie.
It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum?
0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it.
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I'm very sleepy right now. I'm not satisfied yet with a S&B lynch. My vote on him is mostly due to how he's played thsi game. Tomorrow I'm going to do some rereading on clarity, thrawn and S&B and establish my read. I encourage town to do the same.
Night
PS: it was that goodkarma sob that caught me
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All righty had a tough day.
Read SnB's filter, and I don't think he's a good lynch today. Couple of reasons, mostly based on his interaction with hapahauli.
This post:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 03:56 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote:Catching up on my lunch break.
Regarding SnB##UnvoteAfter sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB. (FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.)
On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote:Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Clarity
Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO. You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike?
You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1? No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game. Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who. I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet. The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time. I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not. Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this.
Regarding the Z-Boson CaseI really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy. ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game. Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him.
Regarding iamperfectionHis sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post. I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim: I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim: On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial. It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game. ##Vote iamperfection this is much more like what i expect out of hapahauli, i guess it just took a little while for him to get into character. that said his case is pretty bad for reasons i explained above
Seems genuine to me. I feel like this is a genuine exchange between hapa and SnB. Main point is hapa's read on SnB:
After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB.
And SnB's response is "that's the hapa I'm accustomed to" .
Also, another post from his filter:
On November 14 2012 22:39 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:21 Hapahauli wrote:
Easy on the claim stuff guys - it's pointless to argue about something that already happened unless you actually think BH's claim is scummy - and it's too suicidal to be scummy IMO. He could be scum, but it's pretty unlikely.
BH - can I get your thoughts on Debears? lol hapa this post almost persuaded me to vote for BH
Really, in my experience, scum don't openly base themselves off of other scum's cases like that.
He also gave Hapa a fuckin town read:
On November 15 2012 08:30 strongandbig wrote:
oh also i skimmed through hopelesses filter
the first half of it is mega terrible
like, there's a bunch of unimportant one-liners and then like his only big posts until he starts getting accused are about the "who knew when whether crossfire was a smurf" thing, which just doesn't matter so hard it hurts
but then later i like hopeless's responses quite a bit more
but then i actually read his list post and it contains gems like
"Hapa - town, largely due to connections between him and debears, and between him and kickstart. This read has severely influenced my current scumreads. "
town b/c he attacked your scumread, debears was attacked by your townread therefore he's scum
lolwut
"BH is trolly as fuck, but unlynchable today due to an uncountered JK claim. I haven't read into his meta, because there is no chance to push his lynch, even if I can make a convincing case. Despite this, I think the trolling is scummy, and I'll need to read the threads he's referenced during the night (assuming I'm not lynched)."
he claimed so he's gonna be hard to lynch today so why bother thinking about him
lolwut
"Clarity - Town. He seems to misread the thread or just confuse people alot. I feel that type of repeating 'mistake' is less likely to happen as scum."
yeah confusing people totally isn't in a scum's interest
lolwut
"Z-Bo - Town. I liked his pursuit of his case against BH and thought he brought up some legitimate points. Apparently they were so good BH had to claim to escape. "
lolwut
no other comments just lolwut
oh actually yes other comments - zboson is town because bh responded stupidly to his case?
"Strongandbig - Null-Town. Strange vt claim feels townslippy. However, Kenpachi rule shenanigans and insists on lynching BH for a while, despite blueclaim. Too strong of a scum motive to just let that slide, but I also think BH is scummy, so this read flips to Null-Scum if BH is in fact JK."
lolwut - is this, like, a reverse connection theory? like, if bh is telling the truth then I must be scum? i really don't think that makes sense
yeah so now i'm suddenly torn between wanting to test the kenpachi rule and hopeless's filter actually being terrible
I guess if I really really had to I might vote hopeless to push that past a darthpunk lynch, because the reasons for lynching darthpunk are actually the worst.
This post here:
On November 14 2012 22:45 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:22 marvellosity wrote:
my rage is perfectly coherent.
what's even more infuriating is that you don't understand why you are bad.
any sensible townie would argue his way out of his lynch (3 votes, cmon) and only if necessary, a few hours from deadline, claim if he could absolutely not avoid getting lynched.
Jailkeeper is a very strong role and now you've made it so it cannot protect anybody, plus a confirmed bluesnipe on you, if you are town. Which I'm not even convinced of yet, I just can't bring myself to lynch the claim day 1. Marv come the fuck on. blazinghand obviously knows this. He had such a good time trolling keirathi in Whose Line before that game's premature end, that he wants to keep it up now. I will give 2:1 hat-eating odds that blazinghand's claim is fake. idk whether that makes him scum or town, but I'm inclined to think scum.
Also sounds like "confused townie" rather than someone who fakes confusion.
I also think that a scum SnB wouldn't play the "I don't give a fuck" routine, and his reaction to pressure right here is much much different than in LVII
tl;dr
His recent showing of his play is really really town-indicative, and he's openly drawing too many connections to a confirmed scum - hapahauli. I am not comfortable with an SnB lynch. Will pursue other reads, mainly thrawn (djo) and clarity.
Let me know what you guys think.
##Unvote
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On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB.
Seriously, I've about had it with these meta reads. Fuck off. Read this:
On November 16 2012 13:47 Z-BosoN wrote:DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting. 1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim. 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. 5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Just so I'd come out looking good. All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta. And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway. Sniped post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting. So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so. /rant Anyways, bring it on marv you slut. Reread please: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:37 Z-BosoN wrote:Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty. Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum? Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration). So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it. Yep. Z-BosoN = townie. It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum? 0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it.
If you really think I'm scum make a fucking case that explains why I would bus my fucking teammate in a death post and say my other teammate was the best lynch. Stop fucking saying meta meta meta and starting saying fucking scum-motivation and town-motivation. Goddamn, enough conspiracy theory and start using occams razor.
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I said I was going to be busy today...
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On November 17 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB. I agree. He felt off all game. And his Death post was a blatant WIFOM bomb if I have ever seen one. ##Vote: Z - Boson
How is it a WIFOm bomb you retard? Did you think i'd assume you guys would jump off of me and go towards hapahauli with five fucking minutes left to lynch-time??? What makes more sense?? The amount of stupidity is way too fucking high.
WHY WOULD I BUS MY TEAMMATE, HAPA AT THAT, WITH 5 MINUTES LEFT TO GO AND LIKE 8 VOTES ON ME??? WHY NOT TELL TOWN TO LYNCH SOMEONE ELSE??
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On November 17 2012 10:52 Blazinghand wrote:
Look ZB, I know you don't like me too much right now, but you said you're not comfortable with an SnB lynch, which is kind of what A) we'd expect from scum ZB rather than a zealous pursuit and B) not particularly useful since you don't offer up a new case. How about you provide us with a scumread? Consider it the first step to an adequate defense of yourself.
My meta is a step towards improving my play, and like I said, more importantly, I was aware of that. Why would I purposefully play towards my scum meta????
On November 17 2012 10:51 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:47 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB. Seriously, I've about had it with these meta reads. Fuck off. Read this: On November 16 2012 13:47 Z-BosoN wrote:DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting. 1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim. 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. 5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Just so I'd come out looking good. All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta. And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway. Sniped post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting. So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so. /rant Anyways, bring it on marv you slut. Reread please: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:37 Z-BosoN wrote:Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty. Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum? Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration). So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it. Yep. Z-BosoN = townie. It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum? 0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it. If you really think I'm scum make a fucking case that explains why I would bus my fucking teammate in a death post and say my other teammate was the best lynch. Stop fucking saying meta meta meta and starting saying fucking scum-motivation and town-motivation. Goddamn, enough conspiracy theory and start using occams razor. There's no risk of a miller counter-claim in a game with a godfather, or at least it's a low risk. Show nested quote +
2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that.
Admittedly, this is a point in your favor. The fact that you immediately believed my claim and unvoted though is a mark against you. Everyone else was very skeptical except for like you, Hapa, and clarity. As scum you WOULD know it was a true claim . Show nested quote +
3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today.
Um, if you were gonna die anything you said as you died is WIFOM and you know it. Crossfire was scummy as hell and bussing him D2 is completely fine scum play. No points for you here. Show nested quote +
4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies.
Hapa returned checks as town. And honestly, yes, scum DO try to save their buddies unless it is neccessary to bus them. Occam's razor tells me: it's simpler that you, playing near-exactly to your scum meta, are scum, than you playing near-exactly to your scum meta is town. You haven't been playing bad- just scummy, just like you always do as scum
Are you out of your fucking mind? It's obvious to me that you shouldn't lynch a claimed blue on day one. You actually agreed with that. Why are you pursuing me right now for someone that you agreed on??
On November 14 2012 12:39 Blazinghand wrote:
anyone who would lynch a claimed blue D1 has serious issues
And now you are saying that I accepted it way too quickly? Not lynching a claimed blue day one is obvious, and it's something you agreed on in the quoted post.
And no, that occam razors explanation doesn't deal with many of my points. I'm not straight-up going to both my scummates to look good as scum, not in a million years, and neither will any reasonable scum. You guys are just enjoying feeling smart, and give more priority to a EXPLAINED META rather than my obvious townie play.
Simplest explanation is: I actually did decide to change my meta, in accordance with the evidence I posted (and hapa did, in a heroic attempt to look try-hard townie) to back it up, and I succesfully managed to want to kill two scum. The other is explanation is just "look at me!! I'm smart!! You be WIFOMING!!!"
I'm done here, you guys are idiots. Just read with your heads out of your asses and you'll do fine. I'ma go read some other filters, I've defended myself in the most reasonable way I possibly can and yet people loooove feeling smart.
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Allright one more.
DP, you're full of shit, I don't post lists as scum. WIFOM my godamn buttocks, it's not like I suddenly decided Hapa was scum. Just. Fucking. Think. About. What. I. Said. On. My. Meta. And. Realize. It's. The. Most. Fucking. Reasonable. Explanation. There. Is. As. I. SHOWED. I. Was. Aware. I. Was. Posting. Less.
See if you can manage to not ignore that next time around.
DONE.
Onwards.
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Allright, done a bit of reading and decided that BlazingHand's claim is shitty and dumb, but lynching him now is dumb. Heading towards day three or four, if he's still alive at that point, then he becomes a good lynch choice. His play is muuuuch better as townie (compare him to his play in Liquid City and you'll see what I mean). He's also being deliberately obtuse about his read on me. Keeps saying how my play was different in GSL, when even I said it like one billion trillion times how I admitted that it is different, and that I did that on purpose to further my play.
I can't see him being that dense, that bad, with that bad a claim. But, I killed VE in Liquid City due to the line of reasoning that "this guy can't possibly be that bad" and it showed how even some established players can play so bad.
So he's a bad lynch today. I'm adhering to my line of thought that scum was most likely not on hapa's wagon, and decided to investigate both thrawn and clarity.
Now, Clarity is someone I've had a town read on all game, and continue to do so. He has many posts that indicate he's townie to me (not gonna waste my time quoting) and was around during lynch time, participating. Marv also had a town read on him, so it seals the deal for me that he's a bad lynch. Much more active than in his scum game.
So that leaves to me thrawn. And his filter does not disapoint. Since you guys are meta junkies, you are going to love this one.
1) Thrawns views on Hapahauli
First post:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 11:21 thrawn2112 wrote:I wanna lynch darthpunk. I remember his town play as somewhat aggressive and stubborn, and what I'm seeing from him in this game is completely different from that impression. I still think the whole snb 4 votes early on thing was a little silly and probably had scum behind it. Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote:
I am just throwing my vote around trying to see what's up. I think I explained both my votes on him adequately maybe you disagree with the reasons and that is fine.
The reason I unvoted S&B the first time was that I voted for Clarity for what I perceived to be an easy jump onto an easy wagon. He gave his explanation, I unvoted and then I re-voted S&B. You unvoted snb, who you originally voted for because of a dumb reason, in order to vote for clarity who had voted for snb because of a dumb reason? Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote:I cannot find the townie reasoning behind several things S&B has posted thus far. I cannot reconcile using WIFOM about his scum game as townie behaviour and I do not buy the too scummy to be scum shit.
I am far from certain about him. But if he is town I want him to shape up. I don;t like using FoS's anymore so a vote it is.
Specifically, this is what i'm talking about with dp's tone. This... ...is not what I expect from dp. I expect him to be argumentative and to challenge anyone who accuses him of being wrong. I don't like his votes/unvotes for snb or the explanations for the votes. His last voting action was an unvote, and the next 8 posts contain mainly fluff and jokes, not much information that's pertinent to the thread. Summary: He took the easy vote on snb and was wishy washy about it (voting then unvoting then voting then unvoting) because he knows the vote looks bad. After voting the first time, he unvoted then challenged clarity for doing the exact same thing that dp himself did (hasty bandwagon voting for snb) and then he unvoted for a final time and his filter after that point contains no scumhunting or any of his reads/thoughts. ##Vote: DarthpunkThe other people that voted for snb during that time were hapa, clarity, and boson. With boson... the miller claim didn't seem to come at the right time to be a scum fakeclaim. I'd expect fake claims to come along much later after everyone has been given a chance to post/claim. Hapa, I'm wary of. BH made a comment along the lines of "whoever voted for snb is bad or scum," and hapa is definitely not bad. But he as well as clarity continued giving reads and interacting with the thread after the snb stuff, while dp has been wishywashy with his vote and not talked about much of anything else. The snb bandwagon grew so quickly that I think it's very likely that there were scum behind it, and dp looks scummiest out of all of them. There was his original voting/unvoting, not following through with any reads afterwards and having a fluffy filter, and being extremely peaceful and not willing to get in fights. That's the exact opposite of town dp.
First thing here is: he accepted my miller claim pretty much, saying "it didn't come at the right time to be a fakeclaim". Everybody else just said: meh let's see how he plays. Iamp said he believed it. And thrawn says.. "it didn't come at the right time". What the hell is that supposed to mean? Seems like a cheap way and smart-looking way to say I'm town.
To the main point. Same post. All he gives Hapa, a now-confirmed scum is: Hapa, I'm wary of.
Now his next two posts are dealing with Hapa (someone he's wary of):
On November 14 2012 11:57 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:45 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 11:41 marvellosity wrote:On November 14 2012 11:39 Blazinghand wrote:On November 14 2012 11:33 marvellosity wrote:
i agree not to carry on being mad at you if you promise not to say again a single time that your claim was a good idea. If someone asks me, I will answer truthfully, but I won't volunteer information if I don't see a need to. On November 14 2012 11:35 marvellosity wrote:
thrawn dear, where indeed have you been?
The problem is, thrawn, is that my meta read on DarthPunk is the diametric opposite to yours. from a meta perspective, yes, this is what town DP does, but the fact that he hasn't taken any stances that currently he's maintaining / is accountable for is scummy. I find him worthwhile even if Thrawn's meta case is crap. I think Thrawn comes out of this looking worse though, because he brought up a meta case that is basically false. I'd like to see more out of DP though, and so they're my two lynch targets right now. Plus you kinda for being such a drama queen. I disagree thrawn looks worse, as I know he genuinely believes in that meta read. It's not specific to this game. I still want to know where the hell he has been. He's posted 3 times - this is unlike anything in his town games. how will me explaining my irl reasons for my low activity help you with your read on me? i specifically remember you telling me in coaching that you dislike irl excuses and you normally dismiss them as a null tell.
Begins to investigate Hapa, someone he's wary of. Shows some friction with him in the next one:
On November 14 2012 12:03 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 12:00 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 11:57 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 14 2012 11:45 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 11:41 marvellosity wrote:On November 14 2012 11:39 Blazinghand wrote:On November 14 2012 11:33 marvellosity wrote:
i agree not to carry on being mad at you if you promise not to say again a single time that your claim was a good idea. If someone asks me, I will answer truthfully, but I won't volunteer information if I don't see a need to. On November 14 2012 11:35 marvellosity wrote:
thrawn dear, where indeed have you been?
The problem is, thrawn, is that my meta read on DarthPunk is the diametric opposite to yours. from a meta perspective, yes, this is what town DP does, but the fact that he hasn't taken any stances that currently he's maintaining / is accountable for is scummy. I find him worthwhile even if Thrawn's meta case is crap. I think Thrawn comes out of this looking worse though, because he brought up a meta case that is basically false. I'd like to see more out of DP though, and so they're my two lynch targets right now. Plus you kinda for being such a drama queen. I disagree thrawn looks worse, as I know he genuinely believes in that meta read. It's not specific to this game. I still want to know where the hell he has been. He's posted 3 times - this is unlike anything in his town games. how will me explaining my irl reasons for my low activity help you with your read on me? i specifically remember you telling me in coaching that you dislike irl excuses and you normally dismiss them as a null tell. I'm genuinely interested 'cause you're like 99% more inactive than anything I've ever seen from one of your town games. made a post last night, got high, watched gsl, passed out, got high, passed out exciting shit, i know
Things are not looking too hot. Thrawn is wary of Hapa, and has two posts that indicate that he's not satisfied with Hapa. Things get even better:
On November 15 2012 09:28 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:16 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
marv do you have any problems with boson that aren't meta related? Generally speaking Z-Boson has not been involved with town at all, and while that directly contradicts his meta, it is scummy in its own right. An almost identical reference to this is HiroPro in Rock Band, who I found scum for meta reasons, and one of those reasons was that he was not invested in the thread. And his DP stuff I don't like, and just the general wording of some of his stuff I don't like (this is all in my case if I read it). And to preempt "I'm trying to change my style" defence. You can try to change your style to post more concisely, but the underlying player is still the same. Z-Boson would not suddenly become way more confident in his reads; however posts are presented it's not like he miraculously becomes 100% more certain on his reads as town. then why are you singling out boson as opposed to any of the other people who have a similar or smaller amount of content? there are people with less contributions including myself. it looks like the case is built entirely upon a meta read. that brings me to what i've been worrying about for awhile now... i'm surprised that marv and hapa specifically haven't been questioning me harder than they have been. maybe some of the other people i've played with too, but those two specifically should know that my play looks nothing like it normally does.
STILL showing signs that he doesn't like Hapa, and yet takes zero stance against him. Doesn't answer to debears fight with hapa. Doesn't answer my comment and marv's comment on Hapa's play. He's just spewing casual suspicion, and that's about it.
2) Thrawn's lack of suspicion on me.
He also straight-up disagrees with marv's meta read one me:
On November 15 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
marv do you have any problems with boson that aren't meta related?
On November 15 2012 09:28 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:16 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
marv do you have any problems with boson that aren't meta related? (and again this post Generally speaking Z-Boson has not been involved with town at all, and while that directly contradicts his meta, it is scummy in its own right. An almost identical reference to this is HiroPro in Rock Band, who I found scum for meta reasons, and one of those reasons was that he was not invested in the thread. And his DP stuff I don't like, and just the general wording of some of his stuff I don't like (this is all in my case if I read it). And to preempt "I'm trying to change my style" defence. You can try to change your style to post more concisely, but the underlying player is still the same. Z-Boson would not suddenly become way more confident in his reads; however posts are presented it's not like he miraculously becomes 100% more certain on his reads as town. then why are you singling out boson as opposed to any of the other people who have a similar or smaller amount of content? there are people with less contributions including myself. it looks like the case is built entirely upon a meta read. that brings me to what i've been worrying about for awhile now... i'm surprised that marv and hapa specifically haven't been questioning me harder than they have been. maybe some of the other people i've played with too, but those two specifically should know that my play looks nothing like it normally does.
On November 15 2012 10:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
omg, marv's case is based on meta. it'd be sheeping a d1 meta case
The important thing to note here is that thrawn was in my newbie game. I actually got him killed there, as scum, so he knows what my meta is like. If anyone's supposed to be suspicious of me, it's him, and yet he dismisses marv's meta read on me this easily? No, I don't think so.
3) Thrawn's behavior towards lynch time
Now, thrawn was there:
On November 15 2012 10:55 thrawn2112 wrote:how does this Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:54 debears wrote:
Wait DP and Z-Bo think hapa is scum? lead to this
This post came 5 minutes before lynch time. He was there. He's just looking at the thread, and found a simple, easy to spot inconsistency on debears. And look at how he viewed debears BEFORE his comment:
On November 15 2012 07:55 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 07:22 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 15 2012 07:12 thrawn2112 wrote:
bh is a bad lynch because he's got an uncontested claim and because it's bh You're still on darth, any thoughts of switching? If so, to whom? i don't like the debears lynch. the things that are said about him, i don;t find them to be scummy. he's getting voted because he's got a vote on one person while tunneling another? also i like his level of participation. i'm too much a coward to lynch a vet on d1 unless there's some huge scumslip, which there wasn't. don't like lynching bh/hapa d1. i still want to lynch darth, he's done nothing to ease my suspicions since i first voted him. the biggest contribution he;s made lately was a giant list of town reads with no case on anyone
Now, try to put yourself in his position. He has showed signs of being suspicious on Hapa. He has shown signs taht he thinks I'm town. He has shown signs that he thinks debears is town. What does he do? Vote on his own scumread, the one he took the trouble of justifying, and stayed happily there. Didn't try to defend me, and didn't try to lynch Hapa. Scum get confused during all of that lynch shenanigans and decide not to post. Crossfire did that, Hapahauli did that (for like 4 minutes, but even so, that's not the time to go take a drink), and he also did that. SnB did so too, but like I said earlier, I don't think he's scum.
4) His meta
So it's pretty damn obvious his meta is off the chart off. I'm not gonna bother posting them, but thrawn is active as townie, I'm sure all of you have been around enoguh to tell that. He is investigative and tries to figure shit out, which he's not doing here. This game he's just saying his opinions and being happy with that. I have to go right now, but I will post his meta if you guys are interested.
5) His leaving
He left the game when Hapa got lynched and he was left all alone with a lurker who doesn't post. I'd be incredibly demotivated to play the game in his shoes, so enough said.
Now, djodref hasn't posted much, and it's difficult to surmise anything about him. Just look at thrawn, though, it's there, and his filter is screaming scum. I mean this case 100%, and you can see the arguments make sense, his game from a town perspective makes very little sense, and his gameplay is completely off from how he usually plays as town.
Thrawn (now djo) is SCUM. This is my scumread and who I will place my vote on. Tomorrow I will deal with the cases on me to give this case validity in the stead of a scum spewed bullshit one.
Also, stop being lazy. Don't blindly sheep the votes on me, saying meta meta meta. Read my defense again, it's prefectly reasonable and is the obvious explanation. If you really really think I'm scum, say it, and say why, and don't lazily say "I'm sheeping!! yay!! meta!!". That way I can actually show that I'm town and deal with non-brick-headed people like DarthPunk and BH, who still focus on stone-age arguments I've more than dealt with.
Gonna leave for now, but read this and my defense carefully. Out.
##Vote Djodref
|
On November 17 2012 15:09 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 15:07 Djodref wrote:
@ DarthPunk
What do you really have against Z-Bo except for the meta part of your case ?
Did you read the skype conversations ? Read the case. It is pretty clear it is not solely based on meta. Maybe we should lynch you for being terrible though. THAT is very tempting.
What a bunch of turd. Yes it is all based on meta:
On November 17 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote:Here is SCUM Z-Boson from XXIV Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:25 Z-BosoN wrote:All right guys, some debriefing should take place. I agree that we shouldn't back off during the night. It is crucial we get it right this time. Let's see what we have: YourHarryExtremely weird player. My main theory against him was that he was trying to do a lame bus on thrawn. Granted as thrawn was indeed vigi, this is not the case. However, his posts and comments generally are inconsistent, lack explanations, and keep changing. His posts are a diarrhea of WIFOM that I've decided are only here to confuse us with its vagueness, lack of clarity, and lack of purpose. Observe: I am having second thoughts about Thrawn. First thing that doesn't make sense if Thrawn is scum: If Thrawn is indeed scum then he left that "bread crumb" post so that he can use that as evidence to mislead the town that he is vigilante. But Thrawn denied this post as the "bread crumb" post, and in his initial claim, he never even referenced this post in the first place... Mega power WIFOM.
Second thing that I am not sure about is that, claiming vigilante is so dangerous for scum. One weak point in this line of thinking is that Thrawn did ask the mod to confirm that there could be more than one vigilante. I think it is possible that scum Thrawn DID ask the moderator in private prior to asking publicly that there could be more than one vigilante.
What is this supposed to implicate? Useless garbage.
STILL, whether or not there could be two vigilante... a counter vigilante claim would definitely have made Thrawn look suspicious. Would it not? I am not sure scum would have taken this risk.
He keeps babbling, and doesn't make a point. How in anyway is this post helping town? And we keep going: But I am scared to unvote, because I will be the next person to be lynched after Thrawn What is this supposed to mean? Is he a scum that wants us to think this or is he a townie that wants us to think that he is thinking... oh wait, WIFOM. This statement means CRAP. ... and more .... I am not super confident in my scum read. Upon my reading just now, I found Jhyut case's scummy. Sheeping Thrawn's case here, but Jhyut did not care whether I am town or scum - he wanted to lynch me. I thought he was something else, but I guess I was wrong again. HE is also lurking pretty hard, so he may turn out to be scum Crappety crap crap CRAP. He is randomly throwing around suspicions and not committing to anything. This in no conceivable way helps town. My case against Golbat and Darth was based on my scum read on Thrawn. Not sure anymore. Scumslip? How does he suddenly know that thrawn is not scum? Oh, that's right, he decided thrawn isn't scum with his brilliant and well thought-out argument, quoted above. I'm sure we can agree that his posts don't help the town and scream scum. Even though there was strong evidence that thrawn and YH were scum, due to the way they were playing it D1, I am still inclined to think he is scum. This requires much more thought, as we will have to be certain that we lynch a scum in the next day. JhuytHe is a quiet and lurky player. He mentions possibilities, without compromise, and doesn't take a stance on anything. The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + coupled with Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum.
##Vote: Shady Sands
I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later. Bases himself off completely off of someone else's arguments, and announces he will have to leave. He then makes complains about how wishy-washy YourHarry is, says it is urgent that we lynch him, and starts to make shallow arguments on GK: When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum.
The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.
I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. But still considering YourHarry's wishy-washyness more scummy. Gets attacked by thrawn, who basically states the same things I'm saying right now, and is defended with weak and contentless posts. He simply doesn't take a solid stance on anyone (except maybe for YH). He's generally much more lurkier and gives off too few to work with. GolbatBeastly Lurker. Joined on the thrawn bandwagon and disappeared. We should have lynched him a long time ago. This makes me understand why lurker policy needs to be so strong. If he was a civilian before, then we would be down a lurking civilian who was not helping at all. Now, however, we cannot afford another misslynch, and have to be more careful. But since he has barely any posts, it will be very hard to determine for sure what he is. goodkarma and DarthPunkI wanted to make sure that I wasn't skipping any details on the non-obvious choices. I've noticed some weird behavior on GK, which I've already mentioned. Since I've already gone through thrawn's filter, I can understand where GK could have found some reason to back off of thrawn. I don't think he is scum, as I can't think of why a scum would go ahead and say I'M SURE HES GUILTY, to backing off entirely. Scum generally take hesitant postures that lack commitment and conviction. I've read DarthPunk's filter carefully and wasn't able to detect anything too suspicious or compromising, as he has been making accusations and backing them up with well explained arguments. Also, both him and goodkarma have been making tons of pro-town and meaningful accusations. If one of them is mafia, it is not in this round that we will be able to lynch them unless we can pick up on something not yet noted. Stutters and Obvious to come. I'm sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow. Please, be active, let me know what you think of this post and contribute your own ideas and suspicions as well. Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:My current lists of suspects stands as: 1) thrawn2112
2) YourHarry
3) Shady SandsDue to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history: GolbatHas said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM. Onward. StuttersHe begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info. So that leaves... JHyutWho begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back: + Show Spoiler +
You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with:
Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun.
However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters.
Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut?
Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of:
1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut.
2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat.
3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner.
I find this Highly Suspicious.
That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with ##Vote JHuytPS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough. Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1! Here is Z-Boson this game Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 03:34 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts: On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote:
I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him.
I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though.
Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy.
Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind. Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!" Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here: On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote:On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote:
Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now. I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this. Anyway, I like this case by marv. + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote:@goodkarmaWell that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote:Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat:You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote:
@YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now. I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum. You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions. I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something. Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess. I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: (...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry
SolarSail (0): YourHarry
thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat
goodkarma (0): YourHarry
Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson
Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you.
Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote:Regarding YourHarry:Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: - First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. - YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. - The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. - On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched!+ Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] +
Final Vote Count:
Thrawn2112 (5): DarthPunk, Golbat, Solarsail, goodkarma, YourHarry, Z-BosoN, Obvious.660, Solarsail, YourHarry
Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, thrawn2112, Solarsail
YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695
goodkarma (0): Obvious.660
Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry
YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read.
##Unvote
##Vote: YourHarry
I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated.
Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote:
Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline:
Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat
Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar
GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious
Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out.
Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier.
Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": (...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: (...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson. ##Vote Z-boson That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says. On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote:
Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter. So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow.
thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back. Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless. marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:On iampI hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is: On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote:On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:
Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his. do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games. What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<. Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird. I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone. I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece".
That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn. Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post. Thrawn, however, is unusually inactive. I remember him as townie being much, much more active than this. He's actually managed to make one entrance post: [ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=19#361 ]. Shows some suspicions, ask some questions, and is gone like the wind. debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this: On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote:
I don't understand why it's scum play.
1. Believes miller claim
2. Later decides he's scummy
The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it? Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong. Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised.
@debearsI'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp. 1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions? 2) Here you try to make this contrast: 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him
2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote
-note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy. Interpret this as: me not buying it. Now tell me that this is Town ZB and not scum ZB.
Yea, guess I do post lists as scum. But oh, wait!!! Check this out. From GSL:
On October 15 2012 13:00 Z-BosoN wrote:allright guys, in case I die: I'm pretty confident that sloosh/DP is scum. Lynch them. If VE survives tonight, he's scum. Lynch him after sloosh. (see the interaction that begins here). His scumhunting is in no way legit. Shiaopi has a high chance of being scum. iamperfection/risk.nuke seem townie, but I haven't read their filters carefully at all. Be weary of them. Kreb is prob town. Coag is prob town. Keir is pretty much town.
A list right? What, now you are gonna say that they are different? Well, where are my red and green colors saying what are the town possibilities and the scum possibilities then?
That's because this argument is stupid. I also use the word "and" as scum... and? That's just bad reasoning.
DP has the mind of a guinea pig and sees everything in a way that confirms his suspicions. My last-minute case on Hapa couldn't have POSSIBLY been an actual read. It, of course, was a WIFOM bomb. Thus, scum. My case is entirely based on meta. That's what's going on with these kinds of posts.
On November 17 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB. I agree. He felt off all game. And his Death post was a blatant WIFOM bomb if I have ever seen one. ##Vote: Z - Boson
DP is under massive, MASSIVE confirmation bias. This right here proves it:
On November 17 2012 15:13 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 15:09 Djodref wrote:On November 17 2012 15:07 DarthPunk wrote:On November 17 2012 15:06 Djodref wrote:On November 17 2012 15:02 DarthPunk wrote:
We are not lynching BH until MAYBE after ZB DJO Clarity S&B are all dead. Continuing on that tangent is anti town. He has already 2 votes and debears has voted him during the exchange between S&B and BH. I'm going to push his lynch because you are wrong and I think I'm right. I don't care if I die in the process because we can afford some mislynch and you are going to understand that all my cases were genuine when I flip. Do you not understand that you are almost certainly lynching a blue? Does he behave like town ? No. As I've explained, there is only 40% chances for us to have a jailkeeper. It's far from being almost certain that he is indeed jailkeeper. ZB is far far scummier than anyone else right now. He claimed miller. Usually that should be enough to lynch him right there. He very likely tried to WIFOM around scum HAPA in order to make him look good if ZB flipped red. The meta is fucking damning on top of it all. Lynching a Blue claim is newb play and is fucking stupid. You are being fucking stupid and anti town for pursuing this.
Yea, that's why he was so insistent on lynching me as soon as I claimed. Of course he's been feeling like that this whole game. Please...
If anyone else doubts that all the major and main points on me are meta, and that's why they want to lynch me, then just read:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=113#2259
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=114#2280
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=114#2278
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=115#2285
www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=115#2287
My reaction towards my own lynch was legit. Marv showed doubt when confronted to that. So did DP:
On November 16 2012 02:51 marvellosity wrote:
Hey Bo-man.
Really unsure on Hopeless atm. My note against him says
"Could be either. ick. useless lurky. feels town. now not so sure. torn."
I've also uncoloured you orange for now.
On November 16 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
My reads:
iamperfection - totes town. he just is. not saying any more, he's town.
darthpunk - town, didn't think he was scum all day and then came out really good around lynch time.
clarity - town, for some reason i don't feel as strongly about this as i did, but still feel it pretty strongly. way more involved n shit than when he played scum.
debears - town. would have been null but i find it impossible to believe the way day 1 went down that he's scum. gotta be town.
Kickstart - I think he's town. I said why earlier in the night phase. I quite like his posting, and he was really involved and invested around lynch time, and he voted hapa. should be town.
Now there's a more greyish area:
strongandbig - meta suggests that he's town. but... at the end of the last game i told him specifically what made him look like scum, and I think he's a good enough player to be able to change it up. I'd be more solidly town on him except he's been more useless than i expected. and usually s&b is useful as town. So I dunno. If I was nudged I'd say town, but i'm not uber convinced.
Z-Boson - argggg. his meta is SO FAR OFF, even with his explanation. he DOES buy points though in that he basically preempted my case. Plus, he claimed miller. Now that's not a definite tell in itself, but he did it before everyone had posted and it's really risky, because if a real miller existed, then statistically it's enormously unlikely there are two millers. It just seems unnecessary. If pushed, again I would say town.
thrawn - it's getting trickier here. so fucking lurky. There are a couple of things I consider here. Look at Acme that just finished. Like, everyone is ssaying "i expect more from thrawn as town". But thrawn definitely looked in that game like he'd lost a lot of his va-va-voom. he looked really flat. just like he's playing in this game. In addition to this, his case on DP read as genuine. I know that he totally believes in the meta read that he set forth in his case, which made it sincere. He was using a sincere townie meta argument in his argument on DP, which I liked. I think for whatever reason thrawn is bored or unmotivated, but I think he's town.
Hopeless - i'm all-a flipfloppy on hopeless. I don't like at all how Hapa basically brushed off talking about Hopeless, even though he was quite clearly a major contender for a large portion of the 2nd half of the day. "he lurks as either alignment" is all hapa had to say about it. really weak, tellingly weak even. On the other hand, at some points I've kinda gotten a townie feel from his play. But it isn't a strong gut feeling at all. in other parts he's been fairly non-contributory. If I had to choose, I'd say scum.
Crossfire - lurky AND scummy. Clarity - it's a big mistake too many players make going "oh, he's a lurker, it's so coinflippy". That's a weak viewpoint to take. I talked earlier in the phase why I thought he was scum. He's lurking which is bad in itself, but also he's totally uninvested in the game. I haven't seen a single post of his that shows he gives a shit. I looked at his play in Whose Line where he was town, and he gave many shits. He was involved, he posted quite a lot, he was down with what town was doing, he was mucking in. Even if he is having internet issues or whatever, his posts while he are here do not show any of that mentality. absolutely the strongest lynch in my opinion.
BH - fskfsdkfjsdklfjdklsfjsdklfjklsdfjsdkljfdklsjfdklsjfsdvdfvnxkvsnsdfnsdkjfhdjsvnjksdnvjknksdbnvjksdnvjksdnvksdnvsdkvnsdjkvnjksdnvklzsnvxsknvzkjvnksdvgiojfglkjgdjknbkdjfnbdklsfngkdjngjkdgnjkdfngkljdfngkdnfgkljdngjkdfngkjndgjkldnfjkgndklgndfjkgndjkfgndksjfngkdfjlgndfjkngkdfjngkdnsfgkdfjlnsgkljsdngdjnfgnldfkjgsdn.
On November 16 2012 13:55 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 13:47 Z-BosoN wrote:DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting. 1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim. 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. 5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Just so I'd come out looking good. All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta. And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway. Sniped post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting. So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so. /rant Anyways, bring it on marv you slut. Reread please: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:37 Z-BosoN wrote:Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty. Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum? Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration). So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it. Yep. Z-BosoN = townie. It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum? 0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it. Ugh fine. But It's not my wet dream to catch you as scum I have done it before. But I agree it would be incredibly stupid for you to play as you have as scum. I don't want to lynch S&B though. so I am going to have to go through filters when I have access to my PC. Can't do it on a phone. I am also going to read clarities last game.
@Hopeless
Don't sheep.Just look at who you are sheeping. Why do you think I'm scum? Strongest argument you have. Go.
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On November 18 2012 00:24 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 00:14 strongandbig wrote:On November 15 2012 21:47 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 15 2012 10:52 Blazinghand wrote:
I still don't like Hapa at all. He seems way too straight-laced for his normal town play. Anyone want to lynch him? On November 15 2012 10:53 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm like not really serious about lynching hapa, btw, we shouldn't be switching this close to the deadline On November 15 2012 10:53 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 10:53 debears wrote:
Save Hapa for d2 BH yeah basically this On November 15 2012 10:55 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 10:54 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:53 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 10:53 debears wrote:
Save Hapa for d2 BH yeah basically this well i actually wouldnt mind doing it now this is not town hapa. going herp derp scumslip scumslip
##FoS: HapaLet's get a count of who's in. FOS him if you are willing to vote him. On November 15 2012 10:56 Blazinghand wrote:
You know what, fuck it, let's vote him. I'll go back to ZB if need be.
##unvote
##vote: Hapa I just don't get this series of events. I agree that the "scumslip" thing was suspicious but we were waaaayy too close to deadline. On November 15 2012 21:48 Clarity_nl wrote:
And this is coming from a claimed JK who is now claiming VT. With his reasoning being that he wouldn't be active. Only he was. On November 15 2012 21:54 Clarity_nl wrote:The dumbest part for me is that I asked him to post his night action On November 15 2012 11:17 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 11:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
Blazinghand, before I forget, in the last hour of night I'd like you to post your night action. Absolutely. I wouldn't have it any other way. Then a mere 3.5 hours later he posts On November 15 2012 14:54 Blazinghand wrote:
And I know you guys are gonna hate me for thus, but uh, yeah, I'm not a JK. Monday I had some family issues come up and it meant I wouldn't have much time to play through today, so I had to fake claim. Thursday and onwards I'm free though. Of course everyone is gonna be like super mad at me for this, but it worked, okay? Okay. Why would a VT blazinghand want to answer my question so quickly and with so much conviction if he planned on spilling the beans on his claim. Clarity do you still feel suspicious about BH's behavior close to the deadline? His switch from DP to Zbo seemed genuine to me. I haven't looked into him enough to give you an accurate read though, but currently I'm willing to at least let him live. Revisit it tomorrow.
Genuine?? Are you out of your mind? Nothing about his play in lynch time was genuine. He said I was certain to flip scum, that everything would make sense after the lynch... then unvoted me and voted for hapa, whom he hadn't really mentioned. Read this:
On November 15 2012 10:59 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:30 Blazinghand wrote:
I mean, I personally don't think ZB is scum right now. Earlier I did for the way he was trying to set up town cred with his voting pattern, but iamp correctly noted that ZB straightened up after his initial OMGUS on me. This could be due to scum thread coaching, I'll admit, but the aggression he displayed, however wrong-headed, is town to me. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
._. curse you DP for casting doubt into my heart. I'll just shoot you tonight with all my vigi bullets then
##unvote
##vote ZB Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:48 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 10:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 10:46 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
._. curse you DP for casting doubt into my heart. I'll just shoot you tonight with all my vigi bullets then
##unvote
##vote ZB ...........................................wat it'll all make sense after the flip! no explain fucking now ZB... will flip scum. cool story bro
Also, you talked with marv about this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=78#1551
How is it genuine??
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Please add djodref's filter on the OP!
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Oh, found something. This should pretty much kill DP's genious WIFOM bomb theory:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=68#1350
On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
This post here took me around 2-3 minutes to make (that's the time I sent my previous one). I made it out of anger, and couldn't have given it much thought given the circumstance. (1)Not much thought.
The vote count which showed (6-6 on DP/me) came at that time, @10:47 and I didn't see it. Here, I wasn't expecting to get lynched. I say "if by some ungodly reason I get lynched...". That means that it looked like I had the possibility of getting lynched, but I made that post without feeling like it was a confirmed fact. (2)Wasn't expecting to necessarily get lynched
So, with (1) and (2) , I made a post that said this:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
I wasn't expecting to get lynched, necessarily, when making this post. I had little time to mkae this post. This means that I was already thinking hapa was scum. This also means that I would have to be committing myself to spend day 2 bussing hapa.
This is even more nonsense then me giving out two scum buddies needlessly. It's clear from my post and from the context that I wasn't 100% dead yet (as I could have assumed in the time I supposedly "WIFOMED" when there were 8 votes on me.) and that would mean me committing myself to bussing hapa during the entirety of day two.
A LOT has to happen for me to be scum here. The simplest explanation is that I'm town, my meta was a self-made and self-aware change - to which I have proof of (which is getting heavily heavily ignored by our brick-headed friends) - and actually thought hapa was scum (even showed signs of that earlier).
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SnB, for the love of god.
I don't really see a way to tell whether or not z-boson is telling the truth about this meta point.
Yes, there is. Just look at the evidence I gave on how I was wanting to do this before marv's case on me. You can't doubt that I didn't feel like doing this stylistic change before the game. That is dumb and I've given proofs that go way before this game. If you are doubting my alignment, you have to use other arguments than my newbie XXIV meta, the meta on my first game ever.
I did the exact opposite of this - hapa was saying that BH was not scummy, but he did it with such terrible reasoning that it made me want to kill BH even more.
The interaction still stands. My point is that scum don't bother with the opinions of their fellow scummers as apparently you have.
lol again
this wasn't me giving Hapa a town read. I was quoting from hopeless's list post and giving reasons why I thought his reasoning was bad.
Yea, I messed up my reading there bad. Whoops.
how does that sound confused? I could be wrong here, but I didn't get that impression at all.
To me it does. "I would give 2:1 odds of BH's claim etc etc". If you are scum, you know what BH actually is, and that post was just faking your ignorance. I said that to me, it doesn't seem like you are faking ignorance.
Plus, defending bad townies can be a viable scum strategy
It's also a viable town strategy too. You know, trying to lynch the correct person. I think you are town and I think thrawn/djodref is scum. How does that not make sense from townie perspective?
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I'm not from the Mafia, and therefore you should not kill me =))
And so we can all be friends and dance =)
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On November 18 2012 01:31 debears wrote:
##unvote
##vote zbo
1) zbo a lot of us have noticed your meta is different. And it isn't your amount of posting that's it. Its how you have not pursued your scumreads. You tunneled me to death when I played with you. You haven't done shit this game
2) you're a liability heading into lylo. With your difference in meta and the miller claim, there will always be that doubt in the back of our heads
3) you chose to make a case on thrawn/djo. Its curteousy to allow replacements time to get in the game, especially when 2 scum are already gone. Also, you're reasoning is bullshit. Replacing out of a game cuz one of your scum partners being killed would result in penalties. Its unsportsmanlike.
4) early d1, you had your suspicions on me. Yet, when I pointed out snbs claim, you jumped on him while continueing to be suspicious of me and lecture me
5) after your vote on snb, hapa attacked dp for voting snb and ignored your vote on snb, although you voted first
Can't post more right now our internet is down in our dorms. Yay 3g on phone
1) Yes I have. I've pursued BH to the point he had to claim. I participated with my reads. I was there around lynch line. This is stupid confirmation bias, I've succesfully told town to lynch two scum.
2)This makes no sense. The cop is not going to have a check every single last person on mylo. Find scum instead of looking for liabilites:
3) Courteous? Unsportsmanlike? Shut the fuck up. Find scum, not be a gentleman. My case against him does not resume itself to that.
4) Those were pressure votes in the early stages of the game. You must really really be trying hard to find accusations on me to justify your vote to bring that up
5) Not sure what this means. Must be the same with number 4.
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Also, the other post was me leaving my computer unattended and my friend having fun
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SnB, I have his case on me stamped as meta just like 100% of the other ones that are dumb. Can you be clear what do you exactly find good about it? If it's this:
Z-boson's attitude towards the lynch on Day1:
When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone.
Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum.
here's the biggie that z-boson doesn't respond to at all. And this is a significant point that can't be explained by "I decided to change my meta." It's not about "how z-boson posts," it's about "the attitude that z-boson takes towards the game itself." This is also Marv's most persuasive point, IMO.
That's another meta point I've dealt with earlier:
On November 15 2012 09:49 Z-BosoN wrote:@clarityShow nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:42 Clarity_nl wrote:
Z-BosoN you addressed the meta stuff, but how do you feel about your play so far this game, and marv's analysis of it? His analysis on my meta is pretty straightforward, and true, but he's wrong on that count for my reasons above. On the DP/hopeless afair, well... not proud of it, but I'd say that's a fairly small part of his case once you take away the meta. I'll try to reassess my read on DP in a sec, and try before deadline. @marvShow nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:44 marvellosity wrote:
Z-Boson, how come you're so certain about things this game?
Because of Liquid City. I had the right reads, but no one gave a shit because I felt the way I was wording made me feel too insecure and not taken seriously. So right now I'm avoiding words like "I think, it might, probably...". Still saying them sometimes, but avoiding them.
That's also part of me trying to look more certain about shit so people actually pay attention to my reads. Again, meta meta meta. You guys aren't reading...
Also, debears, you don't get to vote on me with that shit. No one that actually gives a shit about town should vote me without responding to this:
On November 16 2012 13:47 Z-BosoN wrote:DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting. 1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim. 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. 5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Just so I'd come out looking good. All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta. And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway. Sniped post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting. So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so. /rant Anyways, bring it on marv you slut. Reread please: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:37 Z-BosoN wrote:Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty. Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum? Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration). So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it. Yep. Z-BosoN = townie. It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum? 0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it.
and this:
On November 18 2012 00:57 Z-BosoN wrote:Oh, found something. This should pretty much kill DP's genious WIFOM bomb theory: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=68#1350Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
This post here took me around 2-3 minutes to make (that's the time I sent my previous one). I made it out of anger, and couldn't have given it much thought given the circumstance. (1)Not much thought. The vote count which showed (6-6 on DP/me) came at that time, @10:47 and I didn't see it. Here, I wasn't expecting to get lynched. I say "if by some ungodly reason I get lynched...". That means that it looked like I had the possibility of getting lynched, but I made that post without feeling like it was a confirmed fact. (2)Wasn't expecting to necessarily get lynchedSo, with (1) and (2) , I made a post that said this: I wasn't expecting to get lynched, necessarily, when making this post. I had little time to mkae this post. This means that I was already thinking hapa was scum. This also means that I would have to be committing myself to spend day 2 bussing hapa. This is even more nonsense then me giving out two scum buddies needlessly. It's clear from my post and from the context that I wasn't 100% dead yet (as I could have assumed in the time I supposedly "WIFOMED" when there were 8 votes on me.) and that would mean me committing myself to bussing hapa during the entirety of day two. A LOT has to happen for me to be scum here. The simplest explanation is that I'm town, my meta was a self-made and self-aware change - to which I have proof of (which is getting heavily heavily ignored by our brick-headed friends) - and actually thought hapa was scum (even showed signs of that earlier).
People just got lazy and are not reading at all. Game's not over yet ffs.
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On November 18 2012 01:55 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 01:40 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 18 2012 01:31 debears wrote:
##unvote
##vote zbo
1) zbo a lot of us have noticed your meta is different. And it isn't your amount of posting that's it. Its how you have not pursued your scumreads. You tunneled me to death when I played with you. You haven't done shit this game
2) you're a liability heading into lylo. With your difference in meta and the miller claim, there will always be that doubt in the back of our heads
3) you chose to make a case on thrawn/djo. Its curteousy to allow replacements time to get in the game, especially when 2 scum are already gone. Also, you're reasoning is bullshit. Replacing out of a game cuz one of your scum partners being killed would result in penalties. Its unsportsmanlike.
4) early d1, you had your suspicions on me. Yet, when I pointed out snbs claim, you jumped on him while continueing to be suspicious of me and lecture me
5) after your vote on snb, hapa attacked dp for voting snb and ignored your vote on snb, although you voted first
Can't post more right now our internet is down in our dorms. Yay 3g on phone 1) Yes I have. I've pursued BH to the point he had to claim. I participated with my reads. I was there around lynch line. This is stupid confirmation bias, I've succesfully told town to lynch two scum. 2)This makes no sense. The cop is not going to have a check every single last person on mylo. Find scum instead of looking for liabilites: 3) Courteous? Unsportsmanlike? Shut the fuck up. Find scum, not be a gentleman. My case against him does not resume itself to that. 4) Those were pressure votes in the early stages of the game. You must really really be trying hard to find accusations on me to justify your vote to bring that up 5) Not sure what this means. Must be the same with number 4. On thrawn, have you noticed that thrawn was there at lynch time and didn't vote for you when hapa was in danger? I don't see scum just letting their godfather go down that easily on a last minute voteswing. 1) ill look into this when I gey my internet back 2) what does a cop have anything to do with this? Thisb is about your meta, your play, amd yhe doubt that the miller claim brings with both of those. We can afford to look at scummy people who will be liabilities at lylo right now. Fo we want to end the game? Yeah. Is it an easy win with how some have played this game? No 3) lol don't tell me to shut up. You know I'm right on this. Now you're getting offensive for no reason 4) cool. When you put suspicion on a person who is suspicious to someone you are suspicious of, it doesnt make sense 5) its an association. I havent gotten around to finishing associations cuz of the internet
2) You are calling me a liability because the cop can't check me. Confirm this if that is what you meant. If it is, then that argument is stupid, as there will necessarily be unchecked people should we get to lylo, i.e liabilities. That means that on the day before lylo, you should lynch whoever doesn't have a cop check. That's all just too dumb. You lynch people because they have scum motivation and scum mentality, not because they are "liabilities".
3) Well what do you expect? You just shat the entirety of my case saying it's dumb because of ONE aspect of what I said. You didn't deal with the rest of it. You didn't comment SHIT. That's just bad play. Also, He has 48 hours to play and contribute. I'm also interested in his reactions. You are not right here, no need for snark comments. Sportsmanship and courtesy DURING the game is not what mafia is about. If my case on thrawn was 100% irrefutable, you would definitely kill djodref, logically. Courtesy isn't a part of this. No one becomes townier and unlynchable just because they come in as a replacement.
4) English? You are using old and bad arguments. That's about it.
5) yea, so you just casually decided to ad this here.
People are getting confident and getting lazy. REAAAAAD!!!!!
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Debears, stop posting until you are able to read everything and comment. It's pissing me off how lazy, unhelpful, and useless your points are being. Seriously. The second part of the post deals with the WIFOM.
On November 18 2012 02:03 debears wrote:
1) miller claim is a null tell
2) bh claimed because he's an idiot or scum. You're trying to take credit for it? Lol
3) wifomwfiomwifom
4) wifomwifomwifom
5) exactly. If you were town trying to survive, why wouldnt you vote for someone you realistically would believe would be lynched? If you were scum, you couldve thougjt it would help clear hapa if yoi got lynched with your vote on him
1) Not completely null. I'd have to risk a counterclaim. The game already has a godfather, so it's likely that there is both a miller and a cop. If I was scum and saw that we had a godfather, I wouldn't risk fake claiming not in a million fucking years.
2) Showing how I'm actually trying.
3)
4)
5) You are not this dumb. I wasn't town trying to survive WITH 5 MINUTES ON THE LYNCH AND 8 VOTES ON ME. I was giving my death reads. How is the fact that I was 100% expecting to die still in question? Jesus... even DP's WIFOM bomb theory makes more sense than this shit.
Seriously, stop posting until you actually have a computer. This is almost kush-level posting..
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On November 18 2012 02:06 debears wrote:
Cool. 6/6 and you feel like your weren't getting lynched? Then yoi make a post saying "Lynch this player and this player when he survives to day 2" althougb you didn't think you were getting lynched?
Oh and how would you know at that point that bh is living til day 3??????
That's just tragedy. What are you suggesting, that me and BH are scum buddies and I knew he would live? How does this even make sense? Done with you, kush.
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Last one. You decided to go full-retard and I just want everyone else to see it.
On November 18 2012 02:14 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 02:04 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 18 2012 01:55 debears wrote:On November 18 2012 01:40 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 18 2012 01:31 debears wrote:
##unvote
##vote zbo
1) zbo a lot of us have noticed your meta is different. And it isn't your amount of posting that's it. Its how you have not pursued your scumreads. You tunneled me to death when I played with you. You haven't done shit this game
2) you're a liability heading into lylo. With your difference in meta and the miller claim, there will always be that doubt in the back of our heads
3) you chose to make a case on thrawn/djo. Its curteousy to allow replacements time to get in the game, especially when 2 scum are already gone. Also, you're reasoning is bullshit. Replacing out of a game cuz one of your scum partners being killed would result in penalties. Its unsportsmanlike.
4) early d1, you had your suspicions on me. Yet, when I pointed out snbs claim, you jumped on him while continueing to be suspicious of me and lecture me
5) after your vote on snb, hapa attacked dp for voting snb and ignored your vote on snb, although you voted first
Can't post more right now our internet is down in our dorms. Yay 3g on phone 1) Yes I have. I've pursued BH to the point he had to claim. I participated with my reads. I was there around lynch line. This is stupid confirmation bias, I've succesfully told town to lynch two scum. 2)This makes no sense. The cop is not going to have a check every single last person on mylo. Find scum instead of looking for liabilites: 3) Courteous? Unsportsmanlike? Shut the fuck up. Find scum, not be a gentleman. My case against him does not resume itself to that. 4) Those were pressure votes in the early stages of the game. You must really really be trying hard to find accusations on me to justify your vote to bring that up 5) Not sure what this means. Must be the same with number 4. On thrawn, have you noticed that thrawn was there at lynch time and didn't vote for you when hapa was in danger? I don't see scum just letting their godfather go down that easily on a last minute voteswing. 1) ill look into this when I gey my internet back 2) what does a cop have anything to do with this? Thisb is about your meta, your play, amd yhe doubt that the miller claim brings with both of those. We can afford to look at scummy people who will be liabilities at lylo right now. Fo we want to end the game? Yeah. Is it an easy win with how some have played this game? No 3) lol don't tell me to shut up. You know I'm right on this. Now you're getting offensive for no reason 4) cool. When you put suspicion on a person who is suspicious to someone you are suspicious of, it doesnt make sense 5) its an association. I havent gotten around to finishing associations cuz of the internet 2) You are calling me a liability because the cop can't check me. Confirm this if that is what you meant. If it is, then that argument is stupid, as there will necessarily be unchecked people should we get to lylo, i.e liabilities. That means that on the day before lylo, you should lynch whoever doesn't have a cop check. That's all just too dumb. You lynch people because they have scum motivation and scum mentality, not because they are "liabilities". 3) Well what do you expect? You just shat the entirety of my case saying it's dumb because of ONE aspect of what I said. You didn't deal with the rest of it. You didn't comment SHIT. That's just bad play. Also, He has 48 hours to play and contribute. I'm also interested in his reactions. You are not right here, no need for snark comments. Sportsmanship and courtesy DURING the game is not what mafia is about. If my case on thrawn was 100% irrefutable, you would definitely kill djodref, logically. Courtesy isn't a part of this. No one becomes townier and unlynchable just because they come in as a replacement. 4) English? You are using old and bad arguments. That's about it. 5) yea, so you just casually decided to ad this here. People are getting confident and getting lazy. REAAAAAD!!!!! Just keep lecturing everyone. Thatll help you if you are town 2) my argument has nothing to do with a fucking cop. I never brought it up in ny argument. Its about how you claim miller, and then barely anyonr thinks you are town. That's the problem. If yoi were miller, I'd expect you to bust your balls to prove yoir innocence from the very start. You didn't do that d1 obviously since almost everyone thinks you are scummy. 3) we arent lynching djo today. Thrawns play is not necessarily scummy. He replaced out, which means he did have valid irl issues. You can't use replacing out as a fucking scum tell. You're grasping at straws 4) cool. Attack my english whrn ur not even reading, since you don't care to. 5) yeah I did add it because its related. Do you find it scummy that I did?
2) lol wut. I'm scum because... I tried scumhunting more than proving my innocence? Because I didn't do what you expected me to? rofl
3) Says you. My case does not resume itself to him replacing out. You are responding to point #5. What about #1 #2 #3 #4?
4) Oh, I'm the one not reading... k
5) I'm finding you retarded. I honestly hope you are drunk or something, my opinion of you was much higher since before 15 minutes ago, I know you think better thant his.
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Seriously, please make a proper case and answer the posts I'm referring to. Stop this senseless pursuit which shows no logical thought process and no significant reading (as you yourself demonstrated up above), and please answer the post I asked you too. If you are town and you really feel I'm scum, at least do me the courtesy (as you are a courteous person) of properly responding to what I've said, giving a precise and clear explanation of why me being scum is a much explanation than me being town.
What are the scum motivations? Why don't my other explanations make sense? Read carefully, and think carefully and answer them carefully. I get the feeling you are just banthering over some massive confirmation bias.
Pretty please.
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On November 18 2012 02:40 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 11:00 Hapahauli wrote:
Last minute lynch is totes going to work well. Let's ignore Z-Boson freggin telling peopel to LISTEN TO ME and call me scum.
Such fucking shit Just found this in the thread. Notice that both comments are after lynch deadline is over. Hapa knows he is lynched at this point. Why does he bring up Z-Bo out of all people? There was BH and me on him the whole time. But he brings up Z-Bo out of all people. Why does his demeanor change so quickly from pissed at Z-Bo to "gg yo"? Hapa's remark on Z-Bo feels forced reading this@IampShow nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:55 iamperfection wrote:
would be some poetic justice too to kill him with a last minute wagon. LOL
omg... are you scum debears? Does anyone else see this as badly as I do? He's using a post-mortem gg post as an association tell? This post should pretty much discredit him as a player. That just reeks of desperation to justify his sheeping on me. Checking his filter.
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BlazingHand, I don't know if you are scum, but you seem the only one on my wagon to actually trying to legitimately pin me as scum, trying to tackle my posts. I can't defend myself against debears and DP, they are too blind to reason and are clearly not reading.
DP I have a 99.99% town read on so w.e on him.
What do you think of debears? What about djodref?
Let me know what you think of my latest posts concerning WIFOM bombs as well. Need to find a soul to whom I can adequately defend myself too. Hopeless is not taking the game seriously anymore, debears went full retard, and DP is quietly sleeping (when you wake up, let me know your explanation for my proof that my pre-night post was not WIFOM).
Also, I agree with clarity. Town just got waaaaaaaay more inactive. We're doing great, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Kickstart, Hopeless and iamp, need you guys here..
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No debears, you don't:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 07 2012 16:23 debears wrote:Aright guys, I'm gonna put something new into the thread. Considering that Djo and Z-Bo are pretty much confirmed at this point, I was wondering why we are having so much trouble this game with finding the last mafia. My conclusions: The last mafia is playing a hell of a game. Looking at this, I've been wondering who is capable of this. At this point, I'd see Z-Bo, SDM, and SS. Z-Bo is confirmed. SS has said some scummy things and is at threat of being lynched. However, one person has managed to avoid the spotlight throughout the whole game. He has not had anyone actually attack (besides Z-Bo day 1, but that was an argument over the validity of my defense of SDM early). That person is SDM. Recently, his refusal to vote me in the lynch set off some alarms in my head. I've looked through his filter and found some things that don't make townie sense. The Association with KushAfter SDM hardcore shut down kush and voted kush, pointing out multiple scumslips, this is all that kush had to say to him + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 06:33 kushm4sta wrote:
sdm you make no sense. I tried hard not to make scumslips last game. this game I did not. because I am not scum.
I don't know if any of you guys have had this experience but when everyone wants to lynch you and you are definitely going to get lynxhed, it just feels like why am I going to waste my time writing cases and making arguments for this shitty town. that's gonna kill me anyway.
I'm actually starting to hope I get lynched to teach town a lesson.. all scums put your votes right here. easiest d1 ever I hope you guys win. Notice how kush does not flame, OMGUS, or insult SDM in any manner here. This is the only time kush addresses Sonic, and he does it in a neutral manner. Compare that to the reactions of kush to Dp ( town), Z-Bo ( town), and Stutters ( town) when they all accused him. To me, Kush made a defense. The only neutral reaction he had to his early accusers is SDM. What this indicates to me is that kush was expecting SDM to attack him, making his post not a reaction but a response to an accusation he knew knew was coming. Overconfidence
Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 04:59 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:In my mind these are good reasons to be suspicious of Debears. We most certainly need to push for more information from other players as well though. If XXVII thaught me anything it was that I have a tendency to get way overconfident in my reads. This is actually wrong. If anything, it should have taught SDM to be more confident in his reads. He had me pinned down but let me off the hook last game. He stopped pursuing me because of a misunderstanding of thrawn's lynch the last lurker comment. Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 01:46 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Yeah I agree. I don't think it's guaranteed, overconfidence is a bitch, but it looks like a good start. Another quote talking about overconfidence. This is about not getting too confident in the endgame and losing because of it. The weird thing is that SDM disappeared after the lynch, on a weekend when he should have more time than the week. Yet, he hasn't posted anything. Is he overconfident? Seems like it. I don't know why either since the whole town has been spinning around in circles since the kush lynch. Time and IndecisionRecently, SDM has been saying that he hasn't had time to look over filters + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2012 23:18 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:D2 voting: Debears by Darth 1-0 Debears by Djo 2-0 Alsn by Darth 1-1 Debears by Alsn 2-1 Debears by Omni 3-1 Alsn by SDM 3-2 Alsn by Debears 3-3 Debears by Boson 4-3 Alsn by Shady 4-4 Unvote + BotN by Boson 3-4 Alsn by Remedy 3-5 Alsn by Djo 2-6 Alsn by Stutters 2-7 Alsn by Boson 2-8 I'd need my conspiracy goggles on to see Boson pushing Alsn here. Read the links, it doesn't looks like Boson tries to nudge the decision in Debears favor. The case doesn't necessarily hinge on this, but it makes it considerably weaker. I'd need more time to read filters... For someone who has a pretty large filter, time doesn't seem to be a problem for SDM. He continued to post during this time, although he needed more to look at filters. + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2012 21:55 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 20:46 Shady Sands wrote:On October 05 2012 20:39 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
But it still makes no sense to me. You assume Boson is scum, thus Debears can't be scum and thus Boson must be scum. Your assumption is your conclusion. No I know Alsn is town. I know ZB is trying to avoid pushing hard for a Debears lynch D2/3 even though he pushed a Debears lynch D1. Thus ZB's case on Debears feels insincere. Thus most of the case on Debears gets thrown out by me. At the same time, I ask why ZB would want to push for a D1 Debears lynch even over Kush. Answer: Save Kush since Lesrah is AFK. I also ask why ZB would suddenly back away D2/D3. Answer: Avoid having town realize that the D1 push on Debears was a mislynch, accrue towncred, survive till endgame. I cannot find any townie motivation why ZB would flip from pushing Debears over Kush D1 to accepting Alsn D2 and FoSing half the town over Debears D3. That's actually an interesting case. It's true Boson ignored the Kush case d1. He had a good case on Debears imo, so I didn't really find it weird he was pushing his own case (we all tend to be biased towards our own cases, at least that's true for me). I need to go back and look up his filter myself. He did switch to Alsn and I can't remember his reasonings. I feel like the individual pieces of evidence you have are not that strong, but they paint an interesting picture. One question I have right off the bat, if it was all a big master plan, why did he initially vote for Debears d2? Seems like it could've caused the noose battle to become one-sided. Anyway, I'll go back and check his filter, I'm not 100% sure of those events. What do you think of the Omni case? Having to read both of your filters I doubt I'll have time to make up my mind on this and I still like it. Yet again, he says he won't be able to make up his mind on stuff since he doesn't have time. Notice the indecisive tone of those posts. Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 23:34 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 05 2012 22:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
EBWOP lynch him the next day if we decide he is scum.
Also, sdm. Save my filter for the night. If you don't have enough time, decide between SS and djodref. This idea to bring up a ridiculous case on me in late day 3 when I'm not even a lynch choice is typical shady's dumb thinking, which mostly manifests itself when he is town. Also, doint ignore the fact he ignored your case.
Anyways, I'm leaning slight town on him (plus, corrosion bothered writing a list before he left, as if he genuinely wants to help town. I feel if he were scum, he would just abandon this game and not care). omni seems scummy but is a wasteful lynch if he gets nodkilled, so that only leaves djodref, from my pov. Now that, from a skim of his filter, I can definitely see him as sxum, I want to lynch him atm. I have no idea what to make out of all this. It doesn't look like a bad case but I'm having a feeling the more I look into it, the more farfetched it becomes. Or you are fucking genius. I mean, both the d1 against Debears and the d2 case against Alsn are good. All of us found them so good we voted at least one of them. I'm still leaning Omni, since he's both very scummy and a complete lurker. but I still got a few more minutes to read filters. More indecisiveness. At this point, SDM seems to be falling apart for no reason. There are more of them...I'm putting them in a spoiler right here if you want to read the rest + Show Spoiler +On October 05 2012 20:49 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I need to grap some food and reread all this stuff, my head is spinning. For now...
##Unvote On October 05 2012 20:23 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 16:41 Z-BosoN wrote:
This is very intriguing...
Thanks for that post SS, it brought out some very interesting reactions.
Of course, your case is laughable, as usual.
Of course, as scum, I would want to switch my vote towards a townie, in favor of, let's see, another townie. I will definitely bother producing a fuckton of text just for that.
Anyways, djodref managed to be even worse. Please reread your points against me, and think of how they could come from me as scum. Think about what your FOS accomplishes for town here today. I'll be accepting donations to make up for you making my eyes bleed.
If Omni doesn't answer, it's either debears/djodref/SS imo. Pointless lynching a modkill. Will decide come tomorrow, I gotta go sleep.
SDM, I'd love to know your input on who you'd rather lynch save Omni.
I'm sleepy as hell and will go to sleep, but probably during class tomorrow I'm gonna make up my mind.
RSC, same thing.
Gnight!
Not sure, Shady was my second pick until my brain just recently exploded. Djo's FOS was totally of the blue but I don't necessarily see a strong mafia motivation. If he's mafia maybe he wanted an easy wagon on you and backed off once Debears and I replied? Seems kind of unlikely. On October 05 2012 15:39 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 14:30 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Is this the point where you disappear again? Confirmed. I'll just say right away I'm not jumping a late Boson wagon, at least not if those are the arguments. Shady's post is a joke, what does this even mean? Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 14:19 Shady Sands wrote:
his unvote of Debears and transfer to Alsn is also wierd I have no idea what's going on here. On October 05 2012 13:53 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I'm pretty thrawn suggested in XXVII that scum is more likely to be talking about the NK rationale of scum. I don't think I've seen that myself though so I'm not sure whether it's true. Probably not, night actions seems like a rather common talking point in newbie games. There are posts where SDM just goes on an explanation and doesn't settle on an opinion. Scum like using these kinds of post to make it look like they are actually saying something when they aren't + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 20:43 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I don't know what to make of Debears post-d2 posts because it's putting me in total WIFOM mode and I should probably just ignore it.
But disregarding his last posts which obviously could be the result of leveling, is his case stronger than the one I just made? Maybe it's the excitement of novelty, but really? At least I'd say Debears play has been way more pro-town. He has his scummy-looking inconsistneies for sure, but at the same time he was aggressive d1. He tried making cases, get the thread started. He took attention because he was willing to, compare that to Omni who's just cruising by. At least I encourage you to pop out of the Debears bubble we've all been in to look at it.
Also, to Debears benefit, does scum really hang on this long when faced by pages and pages of accusations? I know I gave in quickly in XXVI because it seemed pointless. And look at Kush's reaction. That's the only examples I have myself from experience, maybe Debears is different. And maybe you can question if a townie would hang in this long. At least Alsn did. On October 05 2012 13:46 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 13:04 RemedySC wrote:On October 01 2012 05:56 Omniscient4983 wrote:Thoughts on night actions:On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote:
LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save! I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order:
Debears
Djodref
AlsnFrom my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end.What does everyone else think? Why have such an out of the blue description of what could have happened? He seems to know a lot about what scum would have done in this situation. For mafia motivation I can see him trying to lead us to three lynches, which we've already done one. I know Drazak slipped his medic role in XXVI after his night action and Xatalos picked up on it (that's why I don't really like blue role discussions after night actions). This is not how he slipped though, Drazak slipped it by talking about the rationale of the medic. I feel like this could easily just be scum trying to passively suggest three mislynches (we should lynch Debears, Djodref and Alsn, not because I want to but because Darth wants to) or just a green speculating. Or possibly a medic, but the risk of him being medic AND missing to save Darth seems rather low to me. You need two rather low probability events to coincide for that to be true.
Basically I just don't make much out of this post. Notice how in both posts, SDM just revolves around an idea, citing it from each perspective and then jsut sayiing all of them are equally as likely. No actual insight ContributionsGoing back through SDM's thread, I considered what were his unique cases and scumreads? The only one I actually found was Djo's case. However, SDM quickly dropped the case once suspicion on Djo picked up + Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 22:09 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
My main focus for today will be Debears, Djo and Alsn. Djo has already responded to the case presented yesterday. The individual evidence presented earlier matches the actions of how I would expect newbie scum to play, but for whatever it’s worth my “feel read” is that he’s coming off as quite genuine. I’ve also been going through his recent posts and can’t seem to find any obvious contridictions or inconcistencies in his explanations. It’s all newbie based explanation that could be made up ex-post but a newbie scum is likely to have fucked up at least some part of the defense, so if this is an innocent newbie charade he’s playing it off rahter well.
I’m feeling a bit uneasy going for a Djo lynch and for now I’m leaning towards Alsn or Debears being the better candidates. Both have been posting a metric shit ton lately so I've got my hands full going through everything. I’m looking to complete that half-finished thought I threw out on Alsn yesterday and have a better idea of which lynch I’m liking later today. So, instead of going for his main case, he decides to turn onto me and Alsn, the easy cases. Let's look at his contribution to the Alsn case. + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 04:04 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 02:36 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I tried to collect my thoughts regarding the Alsn case and I realized when I first commented my perception of the timeline of events was off.
On my first read through of the thread, I found Alsn being generally suspicious of everything (overall a town trait) and he had been fucking up with regards to some of the information (perhaps not what I'd expect of Alsn given what I've seen of him before, but I don't find it too weird). Alsn was pretty much a null read to me. Anyway, I went back to look at Alsn's filter.
In his first post, which happens around 11 hours after the start of the game, he makes a long ass post about his thoughts on Kush. This in itself might be suspicious to some people, but having played with Kush in XXVI and XXVII he was probably the one player I was thinking the most about who to handle pre-game so I don't find it too weird. In his next post, one hour later, he has read up on the thread and recognizes that Kush has been playing like he Alsn had been afraid he would. He FOS Kush but says he's not convinced.
Anyway, when I said I wasn't convinced of the case, I had messed up the timeline of events. I thought Alsn's posts indirectly defending Kush happened not long before Kush completely blew up. If that was the case, I would've found it weird for Kush to blow up soon after his scum buddy showed him support. It seems now that Kush blew up at a later stage when Alsn wasn't around the thread, so that nullifies the argument I thought I had against the case.
I felt it was best to put it out there because if I happen to get killed off I don't want to leave with the impression I had some well thought out objection to the Alsn case. I still need to finish reading Alsn's filter and look at the case again, but I won't have time to do it until tomorrow. So yeah, not only did this turn out not to be an argument in favor of Alsn, but the timings makes sense for him being scum. Kush’s posts are actually most reasonable when Alsn is around and he later blows up after Alsn leaves with this post: + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 03:50 Alsn wrote:
Would just like to say that I'm going to bed a little early today. Will be up in the morning(~12-14 hours before lynch) and making some posts and then on and off until lynch but without major "leaves of absence". Here's hoping that no one is still lurking when I wake up. This in itself isn’t necessarily incriminating but worth noting. Anyway, I’ll focus more on your reasoning for defending Kush. I don’t think it’s been fully covered and reading your filter this is something that doesn’t make sense to me. Intro: + Show Spoiler +When Alsn makes his first post Kush is taking heat from Darth. The Kush case hadn’t really been built yet, but the information is there. This is something Alsn acknowledges in his second post. On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. The OMGUS, the aggression, the flaming, the scum slip. Despite this, he’s going back on what he just said in his first post: On September 28 2012 16:54 Alsn wrote:
So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content And instead posts: On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies.
I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast. So he leaves saying he’s undecided on Kush, trying to steer the discussion in a different direction and if not, him having an easier bus decision (again, not incriminating in itself, but not my main point). Your main arguments for defending Kush is 1) his meta supporting his play and 2) the scum slip not being severe. To me that’s a really weird conclusion to make. Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 00:24 Alsn wrote:On September 28 2012 22:39 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:On September 28 2012 21:38 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote:
he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush. I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson. The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned. Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective. There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town. B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening. That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). I was not just looking at Kush. I was looking at the reactions to my case on kush also, Namely debears. As far as I am concerned Kush is scum and therefore it is best for town to lynch him. I like to focus on one thing at a time. Especially when he is incredibly scummy and has SCUM SLIPPED It is a common scum hunting technique and has been recommended in Several postgames. Obviously It was not to the exclusion of all others because I am now looking at you and debears. If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy? On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:
That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). So you don't find Kush likely to flip scum? good to know. Z -Boson hardly called out kush. I made a case. I was not tunnelling. (but I see that is the misconception you are trying to present) If by some miracle he flips green there is still a lot of info to go off. Your premise iswrong and thus your conclusions are wrong. I was calling out Kush for good reason? and at the same time Debears was entirely reasonable in shutting that down? ##FoS ALSN Given the evidence so far no, I don't, and frankly I don't see why that's so hard to believe. Given his history, it should be easy to see for anyone that while he has different town and scum metas(as pointed out by Hapahauli in the obs QT of NMMXVII), his comments so far this game is entirely in line with the way he usually posts during D1. Basically just writing up whatever is on his mind. That to me doesn't really increase or decrease the chances of him flipping either way(but the setup of the game says all else being equal, 75% of the players are green, 25% are scum) Yes, you called him out for good reason because his arguments(like so many times before this game) make little to no sense. But right now the only thing I really agree actually points to him being scum is what you call his scum slip. I just do not agree with you of just how damning that statement is. The first thing that sprang to mind when I saw you quoting that was simply that townie was an odd word to use, why not use player? But a confirmed scum slip? Come on, it's not like he said something that is entirely outside the realm of possibility for a town player to say. "Townie" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but I just can't see it as that obvious a scum slip. I'll accept that you are not necessarily wrong for thinking so however. Meta: I’m curious about this post because I disagree. I made a post later regarding how I think it didn’t match his town meta, a post you didn’t reply to (basically I think he has shown to be more aggressive, inflammatory and posted more pure crap as scum). Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum.
This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out. Scum slip: Now that Kush is lynched, could you explain what those easy outs you thought of were? I’m really not seeing what easy outs you'd see for Kush straight up calling his attacker townie. Not only do I find your reasons for defending Kush weird, but to me they seem contradictory. Particularly when you claim that he is “basically just writing up whatever is on his mind” (which I think is true to a certain extent). If that’s your meta read on Kush, it would make all sense in the world that the scum slip is an actual scum slip. Typing what’s on your mind is exactly what results in a scum slip like that. So you’re using his meta to make null read on Kush's aggressive and nonsensical posts (which I disagree with) and you downplay his scum slip although it contradicts your meta read. To me this seems like slips in logic in made in order to defend Kush, a defense I now realize is both direct and indirect . Notice how a half of his case is a poorly reasoned argument about the timing of Alsn's departure and kush's implosion. It is an argument based on assumptions. Next, he found it weird that Alsn defended kush (which had already been explained a bunch). However, he finds Alsn guilty of something that he had found me innocent of. Alsn had stated multiple times that he was trying to keep the whole town from tunneling kush, which is something that I also said. However, SDM only used that argument to clear me. Notice how all his cases except Djo: (Omni, me, Alsn, SS/Corrosion) are points already brought up. Most of the time he just differently words an argument that has already been presented. The Lynch or Lack ThereofThe events leading up to the lynch are a major scumslip in my book on SDM, He shriveled up into an indecisive shell at last moment. Yet, he wanted it that way. Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 19:55 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 02 2012 18:10 DarthPunk wrote:
Also. We need to consolidate on Either Alsn or Debears. I am happy with either. Would mildly prefer a debears lynch. But I think both are scummy as shit.
So. Who are we going to Consolidate onto? Z- Boson? SDM? thoughts?
I'm leaning Alsn and I'm hoping to have time to explain why with a good amount of time to the lynch. I agree about the consolidating, but I don't think we're in a hurry. With an early concensus it's easier for scum to blend in, whereas if we wait they'll potentially face the pressure of a bus or save situation (or wait until the last minute to make a decision, which is scummy looking). . However, when it comes to the situation he wants, a last minute switch, he refuses to lynch me to gain information based on the sudden vote changes, which could immensely help the town. 1) It clears the confusion over me being scum or town 2) It gives a better indication of who is scum based on the reaction to the sudden voteswing. Let's start with the beginning of the confusion Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 01:41 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 06 2012 01:25 debears wrote:
@Djo
Considering you were third on my scum list, and numbers 1(Omni) and 2 (SS) aren't sensible lynches atm, you are now my top scumread. Omni will most likely get modkilled. SS has posted a case using a similar line of thinking that I did earlier. Also, he took head on the most/2nd most townie person here. What kind of scum would do that when the scum could focus on me, omni, you, or stutters and get easy mislynches?
You, on the other hand, sheeped onto his case, which would be easy for mafia to do, as SS would take the blame. You just repeat Shady's reasoning, and now when Z-Bo attacks you, you instead just transfer back to me after FOSing Z-Bo. Your actions don't make sense from a townie perspective. They make plenty from mafia perspective.
That, considering the rest of your actions this game, give me a strong mafia read.
##Vote: Djodref Consider that we need to consolidate 5 votes on one player. If Stutters and Omni doesn't show up and Shady doesn't return, the only ones we can consolidate on seems to be Stutters and Omni. Obviously Stutters isn't an option, which leaves Omni. And Omni is a cancerous lurker and scummy as hell.
But if Stutters and Omni doesn't show up they might be modkilled anyway. Or is this even guaranteed? What a fucked up situation. I don't understand this post. Instead of talking about whether a player is scummy, he starts rambling on whether others will show up Instead he latches onto Omni, a target we were pretty sure would be modkilled. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:03 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I just finished reading his filter and I basically found same case I posted n1 and then him all acting indecisive today. Fuck, I don't know, these last minutes switches make me uneasy. I was starting to get more of town vibe from him until today. More indecisiveness, although this was the exact scenario he wanted so he could get some reads on voting. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:12 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Meh, I still like Omni better though. What if he comes back back, how many are willing to switch?
##Unvote He unvotes Djo, citing that he liked Omni better. We had already discussed the scenario of voting for Omni if he comes back. Yet, SDM still acts confused. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:23 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 06 2012 03:21 debears wrote:
Yeah you're right SDM
If mafia claimed cop, and they were godfather, they would know there's a cop.
If mafia was a framer, they would know there's a cop.
If mafia was a goon, they would be risking a claim on the fact that there would not be a cop when there still could be I've seen setups with miller without a rolechecker in earlier newbies (or some game on TL, not sure what), don't think you can reason this way.
Seem like a high % legit claim, is there any way to be 100%? This was about the cop claim. SDM brings up a distracting, pointless question that he knows the answer to. The only way to be 100% on a cop claim is 1) a lynch of the cop 2) a scum lynch that the cop points out. Since 2) was not an option due to no red reads, lynching Djo would've been the only answer. SDM knows this. He is a good player that does not suddenly go full retard like this unless its for a reason. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 03:50 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 06 2012 03:39 debears wrote:
@SDM
How so? I could see it if we were talking 2 scum left. Is this under the assumption that there isn't a godfather and instead a framer or goon lefT?
If you work with probabilities it means the chance is lower, but of course you never know. Kind of like when you play poker and hit a pretty good hand, the chance of you winning is higher but you never know. Worst analogy ever. Next, he keeps the topic off who to lynch. he keeps talking about the probability of the claim being true, which is a moot point at that time. Notice how he keeps avoiding the topic of who we should lynchShow nested quote +On October 06 2012 04:22 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:How many are still around? And wtf happened to Boson? He dropped a huge ass case and then poof. Still nothing on who we should lynch. Just asking if people are around. On October 06 2012 04:16 RemedySC wrote:
Well Z-bo or Debears would probably give us the most information, since Omni is likely to be modkilled.
What do you think SDM? My biggest scum read is set up for a modkill. Shady just got peeked and I wasn't entirely convinced before hand either. Next on my list would be Debears but I haven't given him much thought today until all this happened. Wasn't convinced about the Boson case and my state of mind isn't optimal for great decision making right now. I wouldn't mind a no lynch. Look hard at this post. Look really hard. He knows his biggest scum read is going to get modkilled at this point, yet his still wants to vote for him. He says he doesn't know on Shady. And finally, HE HASN"T GIVEN LYNCHING ME MUCH THOUGHT AFTER I WAS A HEADLINE ALL GAME IN THE SCUMREADS UNTIL RIGHT BEFORE LYNCH????That is bs. Total bs. He is definitely lying there. Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 04:29 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
If no one's here and want to push anything other than a no lynch I'm going to sleep. I'm really really tired. Alright. Let's summarize his lynch thoughts 1) Indecisive 2) Wants a No lynch 3) Becomes extremely confused 4) Disappears right after his WTF post Now, let's look at townie and mafia motivations 1) Town - He is actually confused. He believes that SS and Me might be town. He believes that Omni may still pop up. Problems with this thought - We all said we would be willing to switch back to Omni if he suddenly showed up to avoid modkill. But btw SS and me, town has to lynch one of us! SS might be town or might be scum. Either way, we need to clarify his alignment. The same is for me (from your guy's angle, I am town). SDM knows this. By taking out one of us, it would have led to more information for town at a stage where we can afford a mislynch. I needed 1 more vote for a lynch. Yet, SDM sits there, suddenly becoming the most indecisive player in the world despite what appeared to be a very good game in which everyone saw him as town. 2) Mafia - By keeping, SS and me(especially me) around, a mafia has the opportunity to take advantage of the confusion it will create for town. He can get away with nks that will easily be blamed on me and SS until our alignments are cleared up. He can act on the confusion in the thread and hide behind not forcing a vote (despite the fact that he stated earlier that he wanted a last minute vote situation). SDM, you're looking pretty scummy right now ##unvote
##vote: Sonic Death MonkeyAll I ask from all the town that is left is to look at this case multiple times. Read SDM's filter. After I get lynched, I feel that SDM is the most likely scum. JUST READ WITH TOWNIE GOGGLES FOR NOW. VOTE ME. LYNCH ME. AND THEN TAKE HIM DOWN.
So either you got comfortable as scum or you are just degrading your game.
I had to do some things, will read more carefully now.
Wake the fuck up guys, I'm getting lynched in a completely lazy and stupid way. A case based solely on meta is worthless. Read my case on thrawn for crying out loud. "Not lynching replacements" is a dumb way to go about it. Thrawn's meta is indisputably off (someone said RL reasons. Well, my reasons are also RL..) and ASIDE FROM THAT. His play is completely scummy and incoherent.
This town is getting lazy lazy. All it takes to avoid a mislynch on me is to fucking read and fucking think.
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On November 18 2012 06:25 Hopeless1der wrote:ZB, besides meta, a big reason I want to lynch you is I fully agree that you were WIFOM bombing like DP said. Particularly damning are these two quotes, sequential in your filter: Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 09:18 Z-BosoN wrote:
Allrighty back.
Dammit BH, I really think you should have saved your claim until later, you gave up too easily :/
I wasn't as certain on you as it might have seemed, but I wanted to gauge your reaction by throwing you against the wall.
Anyways, here's what I think of this game so far.
marv is likely town. He's a difficult town read to give, but his posting here seems genuine, and is much different than in GSL. Either he's trying much harder as scum or he's town. For now I'll go with the latter.
Clarity is likely town. Just look at him being all cute under a major dirt-flinging fest. I'm townie, and so must be BH right now, so if I know my XXX analysis straight, scum hate posting during these sort of fightsituations, and It's harder for me to see scum posting during all of that like he did.
Kickstart is likely town. He seems very genuine with his thoughts, and his posts, to me, seem townie-oriented.
iamp is likely town. If his entire 180 attention-drawing isn't enough, then his activeness during all of this also indicate to me he is town.
This is how I feel right now regarding townsfolk.
Originally I had SnB down as town, but I feel he is null right now to me, I dunno, have a hard time reading him. Would (maybe?) give a town read on him?
Thrawn is null to me. I can't see him being this quiet either as townie or as scum. He really really has to explain himself or be replaced thoug...
Crossfire is afk.
Now towards the scummers
Hapauli. Much quieter this game. Much less present. Disappeared during all of my interaction with BH, only to appear after the claim. I don't buy his cases, especially the one on iamp. Completely ignored my first case on BH, and town Hapa usually comments on everything. In the beginning, put on some light pressure on DP, then unvoted him from some easy explanation only to never mention him again. Not a play I'd see hapa do.
debears. Began the game with excessive posting, made a poor sheepy follow-up on iamp. Disappeared and has drastically reduced his posting. Seems pretty damn scummy.
DarthPunk Doesn't have much to work with, is likely working on the other game. I find it weird how little attention he's getting from some of the scummier folk. A bad tell, but he's here mostly by elimination.
Hopeless1der Not sure of his play yet. It's comparable to that of LVII, but I can see him as scum. Dunno.
These are just my thoughts, mainly to get discussion going and for BH to see what he thinks (there's still a chance he's scum, but I'm assuming he is town for now).
I haven't decided who I want to lynch yet, these are just my thoughts from my current level of reading. Tomorrow I'll be back probably with more powerful cases. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:I'm down to lynching hopeless1der. No comment on BHI find this point, mentioned before, to be quite good. He not only didn't mention BH's claim, but he attacked someone for not mentioning it. It sounds very contrived and doesn't seem to have strong town motivation at all. MetaWhat seals the deal for me is his meta from the last game I played with him, LVII. From the start, his game has been very different. Observe one of his entrance posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=21#402Note that he is aggressive and makes a case right off the bat against forumite. BAM. Vote. Doesn't give a shit. Is assertive, aggressive. What of this game? Look at his only post that comes close to being significant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#438Makes a big post, doesn't conclude shit. Seems just like the ordinary "look at me scumhunting". In this game he shows a weaker, less assertive version of him in LVII. He has a bunch of posts going after debears, and he's not going anywhere with it.. He only votes debears when debears is already a viable candidate, has two votes on him. Here is his voting post: On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? Basically votes on debears for not pushing his top scum read. Doesn't add any of the the other arguments he used here. That does not sound like anyone who's scum hunting. He says his vote is OMGUS, and states ONE reason for pursuing debears. He spends a long time focusing on debears but never actually voting. This, of course, much unlike his own play in LVII. Look at how he treats his cases in LVII, and how greatly it contrasts with his play this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=51#1015http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=51#1013He's using every single argument he had already made, and is being a LOT more insistent and convincing than that. I'm not the best judge of meta, but that is in too great a contrast with his play on this game, in my opinion. Why not debears?I've done some thinking on this and I'm not sure he's scum. Hapa's main argument of not pushing his scumreads are decent, but I've mislynched people on that count before. Judging by his play, and comparing that to his last game as scum, I don't see it being too similar. When he was scum, his posts were much longer. In day one, he spent a lot of time writing out big cases and looked much townier (lol, weird, but true). I can see him sheeping on iamp with that kind of mentality, based on such a weak argument. I think scum debears would rather make his own case on someone and be happy with it. Why not DarthPunk?He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. ConclusionI find hopeless' contrast in meta much worse in this game. He's being useless and much less present than in LVII. Read his filter there, read it here, and see if you come to the same conclusion I did. He doesn't look like he's trying to get debears lynched. Especially how much effort he put on in LVII. ##Vote Hopeless1der Not because of who you voted, or even how you explained your vote. Its how you explained why you wouldn't vote the others. Hapa isn't mentioned. It's too conspicuous. I feel very good about lynching you today. In addition, given that you claimed miller, it would have been an appropriate time to mention your choice to change up your meta. Whether or not its true is not the problem, its the fact that it was used as a crutch to try and save yourself. You used your 'intentional meta shift' as a player might claim miller as its getting close to their lynch. Its scummy because you withheld information from town and then used that information to try to manipulate a case made against you. It does matter that you pre-empted Marv's case with this explanation, and I consider marv and BH's meta reads on you to be both accurate and condemning.
What? Why couldn't it have been my actual reads?? I agree of the possibility of a WIFOM bomb, but you can't use that as an argument when it can go both ways. You also didn't read this:
On November 18 2012 00:57 Z-BosoN wrote:Oh, found something. This should pretty much kill DP's genious WIFOM bomb theory: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=68#1350Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
This post here took me around 2-3 minutes to make (that's the time I sent my previous one). I made it out of anger, and couldn't have given it much thought given the circumstance. (1)Not much thought. The vote count which showed (6-6 on DP/me) came at that time, @10:47 and I didn't see it. Here, I wasn't expecting to get lynched. I say "if by some ungodly reason I get lynched...". That means that it looked like I had the possibility of getting lynched, but I made that post without feeling like it was a confirmed fact. (2)Wasn't expecting to necessarily get lynchedSo, with (1) and (2) , I made a post that said this: I wasn't expecting to get lynched, necessarily, when making this post. I had little time to mkae this post. This means that I was already thinking hapa was scum. This also means that I would have to be committing myself to spend day 2 bussing hapa. This is even more nonsense then me giving out two scum buddies needlessly. It's clear from my post and from the context that I wasn't 100% dead yet (as I could have assumed in the time I supposedly "WIFOMED" when there were 8 votes on me.) and that would mean me committing myself to bussing hapa during the entirety of day two. A LOT has to happen for me to be scum here. The simplest explanation is that I'm town, my meta was a self-made and self-aware change - to which I have proof of (which is getting heavily heavily ignored by our brick-headed friends) - and actually thought hapa was scum (even showed signs of that earlier).
I think that counters that idiot notion of a WIFOM bomb pretty well.
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@Hopeless
Hopeless, I wasn't the leader for the 10-15 minutes leading up to the lynch. With 13 minutes to go, the vote count was 6-6. I started making that post without having seen the vote count. This is the exactly what I'm talking about when I'm saying you guys are idiots, you can't even manage to check the fucking thread on things as important as these.
Why in the WORLD does me committing myself to pursuing hapa makes more sense as a "scum wanting to bus and gain towncred" rather than a "townie who actually thinks hapa is scum"? This, of course, when I already showed signs of suspicion form hapa. Why does this make sense as scum to you? Goddamn. Needlessly bussing a teammate day one when there isn't even a case on him? This notion is ridiculous to me, I can't fathom how this makes sense to every single one of you.
I don't see what you are saying in this third paragraph. I said he was the best day 2 lynch. Before I was supposedly dead, it was hapa #1 and bh #2. Then I said I'd rather lynch clarity rather than BH, because I thought (and still do) think that a BH lynch is stupid right now.
@DarthPunk
You are a brick. You love saying you read, but it's so clear that you just skim over my arguments. Those two lines you are finding contradictory are referring to two different posts, one 5min prior to the deadline (when I assumed I was dead), and one 10 min before (when I didn't.). Whatever, you're an idiot and can't be reasoned with, so do this: Keep your vote on me. Pursue other scumreads now. Clarity is not it. I'm scum, and I'm saying clarity is town, no point reading into him, right? Great. (here's a good quote for all you brilliant haters, I just claimed scum lololol)
Read into thrawn/djodref and debears. Also try to analyze BH for day 3.
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Joining the halfwit confirmation bias club, hopeless? When I wrote that post, I thought DP had many more votes. I remember this because I fucking wrote "in the godly situation that I get lynched". Of course, you can choose not to believe me. AT LEAST you have to realize that the votes were tied, as what you quoted just suggested.
DP, not hapa. Duh.
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Also, yea, makes a lot of sense. I knew I was getting lynched, and said "in the godly situation I get lynched". Because I, a scum mastermind, realized that this would help me in the future. Sigh...
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Folks, we should consolidate...
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I didn't think we could feasibly lynch hapa. A fair assumption, as marv did the same.
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And thus, that's why I said we should go for him day 2... It all makes perfect sense as townie, because that's what happened.
Mad mad confirmation bias here. Me being "sarcastic", instead of me actually thinking that. That's a nice way to explain things.
Where is everybody?
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Not the most likely. The most likely scenario is that I am town and I actually thought Hapa was scum, just as you did.
What you said there is just a possibility that makes a bit of sense that you created in your mind to fit your confirmation bias.
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Also, we know there's a godfather.
You're also excluding the fact that if there's a godfather, there's a good chance of cop, and a good chance of miller. That makes the miller fakeclaim even more risky as scum, because I would be taking an unnecessary risk earlier on.
BUT.. confirmation bias. I took that risk wanting to get them town cred because I'm insecure in my scum play.
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On November 18 2012 08:25 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 07:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
Joining the halfwit confirmation bias club, hopeless? When I wrote that post, I thought DP had many more votes. I remember this because I fucking wrote "in the godly situation that I get lynched". Of course, you can choose not to believe me. AT LEAST you have to realize that the votes were tied, as what you quoted just suggested.
DP, not hapa. Duh. Z-Bo, you are insulting what, 3 people now? Only one of us could possibly be scum, and chances are none of us 3 are. This is not how a town player about to get mislynched would act in a scenario with 8 fucking town and 1 scum left (there are 8 of us left right?). The odds of being mislynched in an 8:1 ratio is significantly higher. You would realize this as town and calm down by being helpful and reanalyzing the thread instead of calling people stupid. Calling people idiots doesn't help you at all as town.
It makes me feel better though, especially when people are clearly clearly not giving a shit about the game and not making any sense. Everything I've said everyone is always making up a scum interpretation and using that as an argument, instead of simply looking at the simple and obvious explanation.
The amount of misinformation and ignorance on what I've been saying is too damn high.
The only one who actually attempted to get me lynched in a decent manner was BH. The lot of you are just throwing pebbles. Pisses me the hell off. I don't care about being lynched, but at least deal with what I've been saying and what I've been throwing in your faces all game long. Jesus.
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On November 18 2012 08:32 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 18 2012 08:25 debears wrote:On November 18 2012 07:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
Joining the halfwit confirmation bias club, hopeless? When I wrote that post, I thought DP had many more votes. I remember this because I fucking wrote "in the godly situation that I get lynched". Of course, you can choose not to believe me. AT LEAST you have to realize that the votes were tied, as what you quoted just suggested.
DP, not hapa. Duh. Z-Bo, you are insulting what, 3 people now? Only one of us could possibly be scum, and chances are none of us 3 are. This is not how a town player about to get mislynched would act in a scenario with 8 fucking town and 1 scum left (there are 8 of us left right?). The odds of being mislynched in an 8:1 ratio is significantly higher. You would realize this as town and calm down by being helpful and reanalyzing the thread instead of calling people stupid. Calling people idiots doesn't help you at all as town. It makes me feel better though, especially when people are clearly clearly not giving a shit about the game and not making any sense. Everything I've said everyone is always making up a scum interpretation and using that as an argument, instead of simply looking at the simple and obvious explanation. The amount of misinformation and ignorance on what I've been saying is too damn high. The only one who actually attempted to get me lynched in a decent manner was BH. The lot of you are just throwing pebbles. Pisses me the hell off. I don't care about being lynched, but at least deal with what I've been saying and what I've been throwing in your faces all game long. Jesus. BECAUSE THERE ARE 8 TOWN AND ONE FUCKING SCUM/SK LEFT FFS. FIGURE IT OUT. IT'S FUCKING HARD DAMNIT TO FIND THE LAST SCUM
See? Another flaw in reading and logic. Nothing I said in that post is a critique of how easy it is to find the last scum. People are clearly not giving a crap today, just compare it with yesterday. The difficulty of finding scum is not a testament or a hindrance to that.
My newbie game in XXIV was cop/jk/vig vs framer/rb/goon. A miller less than here, and a godfather instead of a framer. I'd say... likely?
Anyways, now that you are here, willing to talk, and have unvoted me, who would you be most willing to lynch if not for me?
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On November 18 2012 08:44 DarthPunk wrote:
I'm here I just don't see the point of arguing with you. You should go scumhunt so if you flip green we can get some good out of it.
That's because you know very well how to attack, but arguing comes a little less naturally.
I am scumhunting though . You'll find out soon enough.
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Sup debears? Mind explaining yourself more clearly, in a way in which I can understand what you are blathering about and why that makes me scum?
Or are you gonna continue to throw little pebbles every single time you think of another deviant way of how I can be scum and fit your wish of lynching me?
See why I'm pissed? I can't respond to shit like that.
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My focus was on BH. God you make bad points.
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Want some better arguments of why I am scum? Read SnB's attack on me. That's much more suspicious, my town read on him.
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On November 18 2012 08:53 debears wrote:
you can't respond to the fact that you blatantly ignored Hapa and then accused BH of scum for doing the same thing Hapa did? I wonder why.....
What same thing? Not voting DP? Want me to go after everyone who didn't vote DP? I didn't go for Hapa d1 because I didn't think I'd get him lynched, said this already.
But wait, nonono. Now you are saying that I didn't want to kill Hapa day one. Then you say I wanted to straight out bus him later on. Choose one or the other dude. I've been showing hostility on hapa for the longest of time. Get your story straight.
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On November 18 2012 08:54 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 08:53 Z-BosoN wrote:
My focus was on BH. God you make bad points. So, why is BH scummy for that and not Hapa when you made that post??
Because I was focused on BH, not hapa. Duh
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Simplest explanation's. Think about that while you peace out.
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Anyone else? Hopeless? Got all 1 hour to convince you narrow-minded buffoons that I am actually a miller and that my explanation for my play is much more probable than anything you conjecturers have been spewing.
beep beep town beep beep
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Back to scumhunting like the good little townie I am.
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Ah, the lazy idc-whatever-I'm-voting-for-you answer. QED.
I'm trying to discuss with town these last hours, I'm trying to scumhunt. What is it YOU are doing useful hmm? Trying to figure out if you got shit right? Try to pursue other reads? Or just chillin?
I AM being useful though, you'll see. It's just that I have so much omnipresence that I can post and scumhunt AT the same time. Call me Chronos, God of Time. A fitting title. Perhaps sir. Sir Chronos. Sir Chronos the Gallant. That's a good thing to call me. Yes. Sir Chronos the Gallant.
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iamp, do something useful sir. SnB isn't here and wont be.
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On November 18 2012 09:08 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 09:06 Z-BosoN wrote:
iamp, do something useful sir. SnB isn't here and wont be. he is here he posted like 2 mins before you buffoon
Oopsie-daisy.
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Done. All my reads and thoughts on the game have been written. Perhaps I should increase the expectation and post it right before I die. That way I look like a hero and leave a greater impact on you guys, so as to not be confused with a scum trying to buy off a lynch.
If I post them now though, I might look a little bad. What do you guys think?
Hmm. I'm tired of this game though, was fun in day 1 but now it's just a bunch of people posting with their and won't have much time to play during the week. Perhaps I should post these right before I die. Yes, yes, sir Chronos the Gallant wants to look good!
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EBWOP: with their elbows, and I won't have much time to...
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On November 18 2012 09:22 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 09:21 Z-BosoN wrote:
Done. All my reads and thoughts on the game have been written. Perhaps I should increase the expectation and post it right before I die. That way I look like a hero and leave a greater impact on you guys, so as to not be confused with a scum trying to buy off a lynch.
If I post them now though, I might look a little bad. What do you guys think?
Hmm. I'm tired of this game though, was fun in day 1 but now it's just a bunch of people posting with their and won't have much time to play during the week. Perhaps I should post these right before I die. Yes, yes, sir Chronos the Gallant wants to look good! now you idiot
But but but then it will look lamer and less heroic. Might be confused with WIFOM. I want to look heroic for the fans!
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Preface
This first post is my death post. Read it with a warm and fuzzy feeling inside, that of love and kinship.
Very well, it seems I'm getting lynched without people even trying. It's so blatantly obvious that my play makes 0 sense as scum. Yet people love feeling smart with their conspiracy theories and observational powers of how my meta is differen, and feel great about greating far-fetched scum motivations for every fucking thing that’s obviously much better explained as me being townie. Onto my reads. I’m really worried about town’s attitude this day. Really bad and weak in comparison to day one.
Games not over yet.
Stop being fucking lazy and start reading and being suspicious. Jesus. If there’s anything I learned in newbie XXVIII is that the game’s not over until it’s over. I almost lost, as town, because I got cocky and decided to not read the thread.
We had a lovely day one but now it's going to be harder than ever finding scum. You guys have to keep day one activity up. Scum suffocate with that kind of level of activity. Just look at crossfire. (Hopefully, if I'm right, Djodref).
Onto my reads. A lot of time was spent here, so fucking read:
debears
Now I really can't accept how he went from this (favoring me heavily as town):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=96#1906
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=103#2050
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=105#2087
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=106#2101
To this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=119#2372
With such a shitty line of thought. I'd never thought debears capable of writing so much stupidity in a streak of posts. His logic managed to get even worse than DP's, basically broiling down to kush level thinking with this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=120#2394
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=120#2390
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=120#2388
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=120#2385
I mean seriously? I "somehow" knew that BH would be alive day 3? Hapa said "GG YO!"? Jesus...
I'm having a hard time viewing him as scum though. His interaction with hapa seems... genuine? I don't know. I'm pissed off at his level of ignorance concerning me and want him to be scum. Consider him a fair lynch target towards late game, if no other scummier ones exist.
So, here's my take on Kickstart, someone who's been missing lately and hasn't had too much attention.
Kickstart
He has some chance of being scum. He comes out towards hapa early on, with a disputably "weak" case:
On November 15 2012 11:20 Kickstart wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 16:52 Kickstart wrote:Here is why I have doubts about Hapa. Hapa starts off by being the first one to cast a "pointless vote" at the start of the day. + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:15 Clarity_nl wrote:
I don't think anyone will be against millers claiming and a lurker lynch policy. If they are they should speak up. Otherwise we really don't need to mention it again. Oh hum I need something more controversial then. Howabout the lynch DarthPunk policy? I have a hard time reading him and rolls scum 66% of the time when I'm in game with him. Sample size be damned! ##Vote DarthPunk I see that several people did this and were joking but I don't like it much and Hapa is the first to do it, which is even more interesting because soon after he states that the random vote gambit is far overused ;/ : + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:37 Hapahauli wrote:
@iamp
The "random vote" gambit has been far overused. I'm not a fan.
I'd comment on your post, but I'm not even sure what you're talking about there. He then unvotes DP just to revote him: + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 10:22 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:01 strongandbig wrote:
if zb was scum he would have made a much longer post
##vote: hapahauli
im down with that iamperfection thinkamajig So retarded. ##Vote: Strongandbig You're voting him 'cause the post is retarded? And not because it's scummy? The last time you pulled that, you were scum (Mafia LVII). ##Vote DarthPunk('fo real this time) Which he unvotes again -_- And there is the whole SnB bandwagon that he jumps on: + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 10:54 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:50 debears wrote:
Does S&B normally act like this?
Just curious :D
Feel free to answer that S&B Well it's weird for sure. I'm used to seeing scum SnB be a lot more "wordy" when he posts. Atleast this was the case in Mafia LVII and Death Note Mini. Howwwwwweva, this post really sets off my scum alarms: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:48 strongandbig wrote:On November 13 2012 10:01 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:50 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 09:47 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:44 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Hello, sirs. First of all I´d like to claim miller. There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game. I am fakeclaiming as mafia. I am in fact a miller. My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment. The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red. That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet. Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out HI ZB <3. Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out. GG scummers But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O Then Blazinghand, Debears and I will rip you all a new arsehole. <3 Oh noes! Well fortunately I'm not scum. + Show Spoiler +On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote:On November 13 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away. Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise. its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. It's not "so whatever" - I'm pretty skeptical how you're so willing to think Z-Bo is town off what looks to me like a completely null action. Hapa, last time you did that little spoiler trick (GsL III), you were the role that you put in the spoiler. Here, you put bowser. Now why would you put bowser out of all the scum roles? It seems to me like you were actively thinking of bowser, which you shouldn't be if you are town. I would expect you to put a town role in that spoiler this is stupid He calls debears argument/suspicion on me stupid, when he himself has his vote on me. It's not consistent at all with his suspicions so far, and I can't wrap my head around a townie thought process here. ## Vote StrongandBig At least he stays away from voting based on the VT claim post but he starts out by inferring that if SnB were scum he would be posting differently and then votes him anyways based on the "this is stupid" comment (which to be fair to SnB I agree with him, the whole point about putting your role in a spoiler is silly). Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:
Wowzers that was a lot to catch up on, I really tried to post before heading off to school but there was way too much to read and process. I was 100% down with lynching BH... and then he claims jk. I still don't like his posting before or after the claim and think that the claim did no one other than himself any good. I would love to flip him just to see, because the way I see it, at worst he is scum trying to save himself (but as stated before that would be REALLY reckless) and at best he is now deadweight.
For me the best thing I feel I have to go off of is looking at peoples votes and trying to pick out the scumvotes, and I still think the SnB bandwagon had some scum attached to it (who were basically forced to switch their votes after it being called out for what it was). Top scum read for me is still Hapa. I think he hopped on the SnB wagon, then tried to start an iamp one (with BH, so that is part of the reason I was 100% down for lynching BH and if he flipped red I would have insta voted Hapa - but then BH claimed so....), and now he is voting for debears with everyone else.
I suppose it is time to put my vote where my mouth is, but I would like to hear other peoples thoughts on Hapa. If most others are getting scum read on him (which some people have already posted that they are) I would like to hear why, likewise if someone thinks hes town I want to hear why.
##Vote: Hapahauli
and @Hapa
No hard feelings, you have been very kind to me in your posts which I do appreciate but I can't let that influence my reads. So were my points at the time valid? I'm not sure what to think of this because it seems that I had it right but at the time got no support. Did I not provide enough analysis/reasoning? Was it just unconvincing? ;/
Now, in this very post he says "no hard feelings". Seems genuine to me. I love putting that in the "things scum don't say to each other" category". But in this case I don't feel so strongly about it.
Another scummy sign from him is him responding when getting called out:
On November 15 2012 06:29 Kickstart wrote:
I'm here and been following the thread. All the cases against hopeless have been pretty solid and convincing so far and he has yet to give a good response, added to the fact that I already had an anti-town read on him before I think he is a good D1 lynch candidate. Hapa I feel has given several good and well reasoned posts recently spelling out his views on everyone, and just generally being pro-town. That being said,
##unvote
##vote: Hopeless1der
He was at the deadline though, so this makes me like him. He was also on Hapa's wagon:
On November 15 2012 10:57 Kickstart wrote:
what a shitstorm this is
## Unvote
## Vote hapa
So it makes me like him even more. Given that he seems to be a new player, I don't think he'd be so ballsy as to go ahead and bus in such a manner, and even try to get some town cred later.
What I don't like about him is how he's not around right now. He seems to have a strong town read on me, and is doing nothing to help town consolidate. Doesn't seem too interested in the game right now, and that's typical of scum looking at townies fighting from afar.
Definite chance of being scum. Doubtful on him, but I'd stick with... townie.
DarthPunk
He’s a brick and is generally stupid with his reads and arguments, but still tries to figure things out, just as his regular townie self. If he’s scum, I’ll shoot myself.
Strongandbig
Didn’t feel the need to investigate. I think he’ s town. Not as sure as I am on DP. He disappears at very bad times, and wasn’t very helpful after people unvoted him.
iamperfection
Marv had a town read on him, his play seems very different from his scum play... yea, I’d go 95% townie on him.
Clarity
Clarity is a clever fellow. he’s been very open about his thoughts, and has played a decent game. Only in times of grave danger should you lynch this one. Possibly... 100% townie? Maybe 95%. IMO he has to be a very very VERY talented scum to play the game he’s been playing. Stay away from him.
I really really think one of Djodref or BH is scum.
BlazingHand
Shitty shitty play. If he for some reason does NOT deal with some of the absurdly illogical arguments sent by DP and debears on me, lynch him. If he’ town, someone with his level of thought would surely be able to pick up on some arguments that don’t make sense. He also has blatantly ignored much of what I wrote in defense of me. As I write this, I don’t know if he’s going to unvote me or note, but he’d better answer to my posts.
If he fails in either of these, lynch him first.
Djodref
Not digging his play at all. Already made the case on thrawn, and there isn’t much time left here. Some of his posts are very interesting though:
On November 17 2012 00:52 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 22:51 Djodref wrote:@ ClarityThis is your second game right ? So we just have your previous scum game for comparisons <snip> @ ClarityCan you confirm me that is it indeed your second game and explain me why you don't like last minute shenanigans ? And regarding the fact that we have 3 scums, I'm pretty sure that it's the standard for this setup. It's a very safe assumption which we can work with ^^ Regarding the 8vs1vs1thing, this is the main reason why I would have difficulties to believe in a SK Hopeless.
This post right here seems like a very useless way to seem like he is contributing.
This post here:
On November 17 2012 04:20 Djodref wrote:
So, if BH is the third scum, he is the role blocker and he was basically exposing himself to a rightful counterclaim from a possible JK at 42%...
It's quite a risk to take. I still don't like BH play at all but I understand better why we shouldn't lynch him today. I hope someone else find the setup speculation interesting ^^
## Unvote
Seems fluffy and classic XXX look at me I’m contributing. I mean, he kinda looks like he’s figuring shit out, but it’s weird to me.
Also, he believes I’m town:
On November 17 2012 13:07 Djodref wrote:@ Z-BosoNI still believe you are town. The latest cases against you so far revolve mainly around meta, and your defense seems honest in my eyes. Moreover, I personally think that meta arguments should be used as the icing on the cake and not as the core of a case against someone. So I'm sorry to tell you that you are going after me for bad reasons. The first one, of course, is that I'm town and the second one is that you are going after me based on thrawn actions, which I cannot really respond for. I'm not saying at all that you guys should dismiss all the previous thrawn posts when looking at me but I think it should also be the icing on the cake rather than the core of the case. Regarding thrawn, I would like to say that Keir told me that he had a valuable excuse for getting replaced. If you have followed the Acme game and especially D5 when thrawn gets mislynched as a 1-shot Cop, you can see also that his activity doesn't fit his town play and that he doesn't show a great motivation for the game. I think something is really going on in his life and I hope he'll come back in a better shape to keep on playing with us. Anyway, the points 1, 2 and 3 in your case still stand but I cannot really answer for them unfortunately. If you really want, I can try to imagine what led thrawn to post this way (there is definitively townie motivations because I know he was town ) but I think I should better leave it like this. I would appreciate that you drop your charges against me because I think you are innocent and I know I am. But if you really want to come after me, I would suggest you to make a case I can defend myself against and add the thrawn points as the icing on the cake. I think it should be fair like this
But still doesn’t do much in regards to stopping my lynch. Wtf right? Where are my servants when I most need them? Sheesh. The anti-boson ape army love going apeshit over everything I saw, and yet Djodref is just chilling watching me get burned? What a backstabbing legionnaire!
On a more serious note, what I’e said about him can also make sense from a townie perspective. I’m more convinced on him based on my case on thrawn.
Anyways, thou shall obey. Now that I’m dead and that the obvious explanation’s veracity has surfaced, reread everything I said understanding that I am town and learn the error of your ways and the idiotness of my lynch.
Fear not though, thou shall LEARN from those errors, and improve your scumhunting abilities in such a manner as to catch your last scum.
Tabs on me though, check this:
Lynch Blazinghand
If that fucker lives past night two, snipe his ass, especially if he meets the criteria I’ve set up earlier. Well, at this point in time, BH still hasn’t posted anything. He’ got a ton of pages in his filter, but no real signs of being helpful.
Investigate Djodref
I know who’s cop btw. So, mr. Cop, investigate Djodref. Nothing scum can do right now to stop a cop search. If roleblocker decides to find who is the cop and roleblock him, then BH the jailer will be able to confirm his role to someone else. Since that likely won’t happen, and BH will inevitably claim RB, then just go ahead Djo and we should be fine. Win-win, either Djo gets confirmed, or BH gets confirmed.
So, what if neither BH and Djodref are scum?
Well, then I’m very sad and I feel that this third scum is a very capable player.
I will swear by DarthPunk, iamperfection, and Hopeless. Don’t kill these three. Throwing my reputation on the line.
Will pseudo-swear by debears and Clarity. You better make a real fucking case on them, better than you did on me.
Kickstart and SnB, well... meh. Ugh. Meh. Scum has to be BH or Djodref, has to be.
GL Town!!!
This ends the death post part. Now comes the alternative if you guys see the truth and decide not to lynch me.
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So that was the post I had already written, it was supposed to be a heroic game-solving last effort.
Now, when confronted with the option that I may yet live, I’d say we should really really kill Djodref. I mean, shit. Thrawn looks so scummy, look at my case on him. If I’m right about my cop read, it’s not him, so we may, just may be able to secure a lynch on him. I’d really love to kill him. Where is he right now? Why isn’ he helpful? Read my posts above. Not really digging him. Djodref is not helping either.
The other option in my mind is BH. He’s fucking useless. But, there’s an off-chance that he may actually be JK. ANyways, a mass claim before N2 might prove useful in determining this. And, also, scum simply don’t need to keep him alive. Completely ballsy and risky to keep him alive just for the sake of WIFOM, nothing can stop his NK and it’s just an unnecessary risk for scum. Mr. Cop can help us with him. I said earlier that his was a stupid idea, but if we lynch Djodref and stick with the cop read on BH, then I think we’ll be looking good for day three. If BH is scum, game over. If he’s town and lives, horray! If he gets NKed, well, Cop is still safe.
So, what I’ll suggest is:
Lynch Djodref
Best lynch. Has a case, and now some bad posts against Djodref as well, not only thrawn. Thrawn was off his meta. Besides that, he actually has displayed a non-town-oriented approach. Kill him, guys, I’m not the scum here. Stop it with the "courtesy policy not-lynch. He's had 48h and he's been useless. And I mean useless.
If I still die, just do what I said earlier on. We should be good.
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They are stunned, baffled in awe of the amount of wisdom displayed. In fact, in such a way that they can't help but admire. It seems we are experiencing a minute of silence in reverence to my undisputed Godship.
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On November 18 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:
Nah. I want ZB to flip. Then if the game is still going we can check out that wall of text of his.
Too much to read, eh DP my love?
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Lo! Death has reared himself a throne
In a strange city lying alone
Far down within the dim West,
Where the good and the bad and the worst and the best
Have gone to their eternal rest.
There shrines and palaces and towers
(Time-eaten towers that tremble not!)
Resemble nothing that is ours.
Around, by lifting winds forgot,
Resignedly beneath the sky
The melancholy waters lie.
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Seems like Djodref is not an option... oh well.
##Unvote
##Vote SnB
Hate this lynch, but, better than me
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Always here bro.
Talk to me about something.
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No rays from the holy heaven come down
On the long night-time of that town,
But light from out the lurid sea
Shines up the turrets silently,
Gleams up the pinnacles far and free;
Up domes--up spires--up kingly halls--
Up fanes--up Babylon-like walls--
Up shadowy long-forgotten bowers
Of sculptured ivy and stone flowers--
Up many and many a marvelous shrine
Where wreathed friezes intertwine
The viol, the violet, and the vine.
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Yea, specially when he can just unvote BH and vote me to live.
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This is such a sad evening.
No one around, but shadows and dust.
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Resignedly beneath the sky
The melancholy waters lie.
So blend the turrets and shadows there
That all seem pendulous in air,
While from a proud tower in the town
Death looks gigantically down.
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It's ok. I've always loved you. Go get 'em tiger.
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Town, don't let the other lynches be this lonely. Guy's dying, he needs comfort.
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Also, please read my huge wall'o text. Please try harder. This was a shameful day.
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There open fanes and gaping graves
Yawn level with the luminous waves,
But not the riches there that lie
Within each idol's diamond eye,
Not the gaily-jeweled dead
Tempt the waters from their bed,
For no ripples curl, alas!
Along that wilderness of glass,
No swellings tell that winds may be
Upon some far-off happier sea,
No heavings hint that winds have been
On seas less hideously serene.
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He is a cold one, knows no love.
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iamp,
this game is to your 2k as it has been to my one.
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Nice of you to show. I'll see you in the afterlife soon enough.
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^^^read my wall-o-texts after I die.
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For lo, a stir is in the air!
The wave--there is a movement there!
As if the towers cast aside
In slightly sinking, the dull tide;
As if their tops had feebly given
A void within the filmy heaven.
The waves have now a redder glow;
The hours are breathing faint and low.
And when, amid no earthly moans,
Down, down that town shall settle hence,
Hell, rising from a thousand thrones,
Shall do it reverence.
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GG
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DJO, WHY?????
Come on, I was actually cheering for you. You had a completely viable chance of winning this game. Only DP really thought you scum... God damn, dude!
I felt so pissed town actually managed to lynch Clarity (marv's and mine top townread) and actually considered lynching DP, in an apology to marv's top townread and my 99.99% confidence town read on him. I got so frustrated watching town derp hardcore, I decided to root for scum lol
You really, really shouldn't have conceded...
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But anyways, well played :D
Hopeless gains the LVP trophy here. Confirmed town, blindly sheeping his vote on me, and just chilling without trying to do shit this late stage of game. Seriously, what bad play. Everyone else was trying to figure shit out. Gah
I really liked this town day one though, insane activity made it tough for scum to hide in. All three scum members were completely discernable from after day one (with the exception of SnB imo... took me a while to get a townread from him), which is something that I've never seen happen before.
We got a bit (a fucking lot) lucky on hapa's lynch, but this was one hell of a day 1for town, and I'm impressed.
Will comment more later.
GG!
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On November 23 2012 06:23 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 06:21 Z-BosoN wrote:
But anyways, well played :D
Hopeless gains the LVP trophy here. Confirmed town, blindly sheeping his vote on me, and just chilling without trying to do shit this late stage of game. Seriously, what bad play. Everyone else was trying to figure shit out. Gah
I really liked this town day one though, insane activity made it tough for scum to hide in. All three scum members were completely discernable from after day one (with the exception of SnB imo... took me a while to get a townread from him), which is something that I've never seen happen before.
We got a bit (a fucking lot) lucky on hapa's lynch, but this was one hell of a day 1for town, and I'm impressed.
Will comment more later.
GG! A trophy's a trophy I guess...
Seriously though, why did you down your game so much after day one? I know you as a capable player, especially from LVII...
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On November 23 2012 07:13 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 06:55 Keirathi wrote:On November 23 2012 06:50 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 23 2012 06:47 Keirathi wrote:
Oh yea, so I wanted to comment on this to DP since I told him I would:
Z-BosoN should have never been lynched. That was such lazy thinking by everyone in the town.
So, the godfather is lynched day 1. Then, during the night, marv is screaming for the vig to shoot BH (the claimed JK). If ZB was scum, he would know that BH was in fact town, and probably have deduced that BH wasn't lying about the JK claim, and would let the BH vig go through. Instead, ZB comes into the thread saying "No no no no. Don't shoot BH, shoot [my other partner] Crossfire!" Scum just doesn't do that. Period, end of story. Maybe scum ZB would have bussed him the next day, but he would 100% want the vig to waste a shot on a townie rather than his teammate. I fully considered this and STILL thought the WIFOM bomb theory made sense.  Well, you had already sent in the shot on Crossfire even before he said it, so props to you. But, I still think it was a terrible lynch, and by far the worst wagon of the game. Even if we didn't have a vig and we ended up lynching crossfire, I legitimately thought Z-bo was on pace to bus both his teammates before Day 2 started when I was content to sit back and watch him get lynched.
Also it's not like I 100% bussed hapa. I clearly told you guys to lynch him day 2. Why is it necessarily a WIFOM bomb if at least 6 people agreed with Hapa being scum??. So much in fact that he actually got lynched over me. You think I foresaw this? Why doesn't it make sense that I also found him scum (on the same reasoning rest of town did) and genuinely wanted town to kill him day two?
Seriously, why in gods name is me telling to kill a scum the next day more likely WIFOM than a genuine read? And STILL, if you really really think it's WIFOM, great, but you can't use that as an argument.
Seriously... I said this in-thread a 100 times. Does it make sense that I can be a WIFOMing bussing scum? Yes, it does. Is it more likely than me actually getting my reads right? Not a chance in hell, no.
All this of course, with an explained meta case WITH EVIDENCE! evidence you guys chose to ignore because you guys got lazy and decided not to read.
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On November 23 2012 07:32 Blazinghand wrote:
I actually did read it, I just felt like lynching you was the right move anyways. It's not like we had a huge chance of losing anyways after D1/N1
Exactly. Lazy lazy lazy
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On November 23 2012 07:49 Blazinghand wrote:
What, I thought you said I didn't read it therefore I'm lazy, then I said I read it but disagreed and that's also lazy? Is it possible you just weren't very convincing?
You weren't lazy to read nor to pursue me. You half-heartedly tried tackling my arguments, but at least were the only one that tried.
However, you were lazy to think. I swear I tried picturing the cases against me as non-biased as possible, but seriously, nothing else aside from meta made any sense.
You also just implicitly said you weren't too worried about getting it wrong here.
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On November 23 2012 08:01 Blazinghand wrote:
I put like infinitely more effort into this game after the end of N1 then I did before the start of N1. Call me mistaken, bad, or whatever, but if you call me lazy you're simply wrong.
You disagree with this?
On November 23 2012 08:00 Keirathi wrote:
No, I think lazy is more appropriate than dumb. You weren't worried about being wrong since town was so far ahead, so you didn't put as much effort into getting it right as you could have and just went with your first instinct.
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On November 23 2012 08:04 Blazinghand wrote:
Yeah it's a lazy mindset, but that's my mindset now looking back on it. At the time, I thought ZB was scum and I lynched him. It was a mistake, but in retrospect, we weren't gonna lose anyways.
But you came dangerously dangerously close to that. Djo could actually have pulled it off.
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On November 23 2012 08:06 Blazinghand wrote:
Z-B, I worked quite hard after N1 to do my best to pin down the last scum. My case on you was mistaken, but it was extensively-researched and almost certainly not lazy. In retrospect, I should have realized you were town-- but hindsight is, as they say, 20/20. I'll do better next time.
I like to take a critical view of my own play, and I recommend you join me in doing so so we can both do better next time.
I've no problem with that dude. To me it seemed like you had a lazy mindset and your later comments on how "town was already doing great" kinda indicate that you weren't giving your 100%.
Also, I'm extremely open about my play, I love receiving advice. If you have any suggestions, I'll gladly take them.
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On November 23 2012 08:09 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 08:08 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 23 2012 08:04 Blazinghand wrote:
Yeah it's a lazy mindset, but that's my mindset now looking back on it. At the time, I thought ZB was scum and I lynched him. It was a mistake, but in retrospect, we weren't gonna lose anyways. But you came dangerously dangerously close to that. Djo could actually have pulled it off. Yes, we did come rather close to it-- with only 2 lynches left and two players to lynch into, I'm SURE Djo had a chance. What suggestions do you have for my play going forwards to avoid this in the future?
Well, possibly reading more into the dead people. I found Clarity's lynch to be extreeeemely stupid as well. I also was screaming Djodref scum when I died, surely I had a reason?
Aside from that I can't really say much, you had issues IRL and weren't playing like I've seen you play.
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On November 23 2012 08:14 Blazinghand wrote:
Unless your suggestion is that my gf's grandmother not die in the future, in which case we're set: she's all out of them
I'm sorry if I made you angry enough for you to speak like that. I meant my comments to be more of a discussion.
Seriously, I apologize. Sometimes I get carried away and don't think about the bigger picture of things.
My condolences for your grandmother.
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On November 23 2012 08:24 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 08:08 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 23 2012 08:04 Blazinghand wrote:
Yeah it's a lazy mindset, but that's my mindset now looking back on it. At the time, I thought ZB was scum and I lynched him. It was a mistake, but in retrospect, we weren't gonna lose anyways. But you came dangerously dangerously close to that. Djo could actually have pulled it off. Yeah. But he would have had to fight me tooth and nail for a week to do so. I think you of all people know how uninviting a prospect that can be. That being said. I think I should be banned or something. It is clearly against the rules to win by making others not want to play. And I'm pretty sure that is what happened here. Also, regarding your lynch, stop being so butthurt about it. It is your job to make yourself look too townie to lynch also. The responsibility is not soley on us to see how 'obviously' town you were. YOu need to endeavour to make yourself look townie as possible so it becomes impossible to lynch you. That being said, Whilst I understand keir's viewpoint and thought about that, what gonzaw says is true and is exactly what I would have done as scum. Which is the only point of reference I have. Add to that that both marv and Blazinghand thought you were scum at different points of the game and that you, like me, almost got mislynched day one. There is some work that needs to be done on your town game to stop you getting mislynched. Also anyone saying that a miller claim should be treated in the same way as a miller claim is wrong. If people disagree I would love to hear their reasoning. @clarity. I felt your play was based on emotion rather than anything substantial. Especially with your reads on myself and djo. also you need to work on posting less IMO. 100 pages on night one is ridiculous for a mini IMO. Many people in the obs qt complained about it. The amount of content generated was unnecessary and hurt town IMO as it was very difficult to find anything important in the mess. Others may have different thoughts but I think the mass posting hurt town. hmm If I have any other thoughts I'll jot them down. Also I am actually burnt out BH. Don;t know why I would lie about it. I was actually going to take a break after ACME but keir asked me to join this and I <3 keir so what could I do.
DP, I think he gave up because he hasn't yet realized that people aren't nearly as confident as they seem.
You fake confidence to appear convincing all the time, no matter the arguments you are using. This was clearly the case against me. Observe how I simply ignored you later on. You can shout and be insistent all you want - it doesn't make you a better player if you blatantly fail to read arguments and insist on things that have already been answered, whilst ignoring the explanation.
Luckily you are not stupid and got it right on Djodref.. but being unable to be reasoned with doesn't make you a better player.
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On November 23 2012 08:32 Blazinghand wrote:
But definitely not because you were aggressive, aggressive DP is town dP
He's aggressive as both alignments. But his play as town is very different as town and as scum in some way I'll leave marv to explain
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On November 23 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:
Man Z-B I dunno you still got lynched dude
I got lynched because there were three people not reading/trying and just decided to sheep marv.
I literally laughed when I saw debears use hapa's "gg-yo" post as an argument against me. How no one found that messed up is also an indicator of how people weren't reading. How no one read my case on thrawn properly is also a powerful indicator.
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I disagree heavily with not lynching replacements. If the guy he was replacing was hella scummy, and in 48 hours you manage to act scummily and provide zero to none reads, that's more information than you have on whoever you lynched on day one.
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EPT
