EPTMario Mini Mafia
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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[] [] Not a miller | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 13 2012 09:09 Hapahauli wrote: 'sup d00ds Yep, though are millers self-aware? It doesn't mention anywhere in the role PM listed in the OP It does. Last line of Q&A (minus the 'if you have questions...') | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 13 2012 09:10 marvellosity wrote: try reading things Hapa. Don't need everyone to say they're not a miller, just for the miller to say he is :/ I'd prefer everyone says yea or nay to it ASAP, or else argue why claiming is a bad idea. Prevents anyone saying 'oh i didn't see whoops, im a miller' as they're going to be lynched. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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On November 13 2012 10:52 strongandbig wrote: okay so that "lol" was when I was reading the thread and ppl were like "omg vote him he claimed vt" and then I was like, wtf are they talking about when did I claim vt? and then I was like, "oh." yeah so, oops? wat? so...you didn't claim VT? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On July 06 2012 21:47 marvellosity wrote: First person to attack the VT claim is scum. Only works for ken though. So we're not lynching BL. Especially as he's one of the only players actually making an effort. (This is from an old game) | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On November 13 2012 10:55 debears wrote: I'm trying to figure out wtf you are doing coming in out of nowhere and lecturing someone early d1. In fact, lecturing everyone for their scumhunting. What have you done? ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless1der DP calls out marv because multiple people were actively lurking and you singling out clarity was unfair. I was also lurking, and DP implies you were "trying your hardest", whereas you have said: On November 13 2012 10:48 debears wrote: Eh. It's early d1. Give me about 10 more hours before the good stuff comes out. And yeah guys didn't realize it's only 2 hours at this point.... And yeah marv that's why my vote is still on u! Did we catch the scums yet? Did 10 hours pass when I wasnt looking? | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 13 2012 11:03 marvellosity wrote: not a lot worth sharing. I think the s&b wagon is a bit silly, but s&b's last two posts are a little too... try-hard for my liking. "look how casual i am guise!!!!" what is it that you would rather see from SnB before deciding whether to vote him? | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 13 2012 09:48 marvellosity wrote: ah, no Crossfire is just Crossfire. He played in Whose Line (town) and Aperture mini (third party type scum thing) recently read the thread | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Hopeless1der
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On November 13 2012 11:07 debears wrote: Because hapa's talk about was whether he is a smurf, which we cannot tell right now, due to his lack of posting On November 13 2012 11:07 marvellosity wrote: we can tell, because i told you who he was On November 13 2012 11:10 debears wrote: wait what?????? For reference: On November 13 2012 09:48 marvellosity wrote: ah, no Crossfire is just Crossfire. He played in Whose Line (town) and Aperture mini (third party type scum thing) recently Checking timestamps, just over an hour from when debears should be well aware of what has happened. Wanting to pursue my meta isn't all that bothersome. On November 13 2012 11:14 debears wrote: Because the question hapa asked was if cross was a smurf. Ffs. That came before Marv's "crossfire is just crossfire" Please keep my posts in context But you said 'we cannot tell' after marv's post. You can't keep your own posts in context. I'm [this] close to voting you | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 13 2012 11:21 marvellosity wrote: actually, reading the first couple of pages of your filter in Whose Line, you were pretty constructive, and you are not at all here. What gives? Themed game mostly I guess..it usually takes me longer to get constructive. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Is the way debears confused 'small amount of games' with 'unreadable' scummy? He did it AFTER he was supposedly aware that cross has played before. or would you consider them the same thing? | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:31 Hopeless1der wrote: Is the way debears confused 'small amount of games' with 'unreadable' scummy? He did it AFTER he was supposedly aware that cross has played before. or would you consider them the same thing? | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 13 2012 23:28 marvellosity wrote: He did, but I've come to expect more than a solitary post from thrawn. Hopeless, could you clarify this I'm not sure what you're getting at? As far as I can see, debears missed my Crossfire explanation post and therefore continued prattling on about smurfs or whatever. It's apparent that debears is guilty of not reading the thread properly, but I'm not entirely sure what you're asking here. Well first, does a low number of games make someone "unreadable"? debears doesn't acknowledge your explanation until it suits his pressure against me: On November 13 2012 11:14 debears wrote: Because the question hapa asked was if cross was a smurf. Ffs. That came before Marv's "crossfire is just crossfire" Please keep my posts in context I guess I'll just chalk it up to inattentiveness. I find it scummy that he dismisses cross' meta without knowing if it even exists. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 13 2012 23:53 marvellosity wrote: where did he say that? I missed it going through his filter earlier - Hapa asks if Cross is a smurf - debears: On November 13 2012 09:47 debears wrote: Who cares????? Even if it's a smurf, behavioral analysis triumphs - Marv: On November 13 2012 09:48 marvellosity wrote: ah, no Crossfire is just Crossfire. He played in Whose Line (town) and Aperture mini (third party type scum thing) recently - debears attacks me for 'lecturing/being aggressive' and asks about my meta - Clarity calls that a contradiction, because debears has said 'behavioral analysis triumphs' - debears defense: On November 13 2012 11:07 debears wrote: Because hapa's talk about was whether he is a smurf, which we cannot tell right now, due to his lack of posting ^^This is mostly what I'm referring to. Cross has a meta, and debears should be aware of it by now, but says he hadn't seen Marv's post. In any case he says, 'we cannot tell right now', when there is 100% evidence to the contrary (we may not be able to tell much, but there's SOMETHING to go by). Maybe he couldn't be bothered to go looking due to laziness or just being busy in general. Fine, but he still acknowledges Marv's post: + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 11:14 debears wrote: Because the question hapa asked was if cross was a smurf. Ffs. That came before Marv's "crossfire is just crossfire" Please keep my posts in context But he sticks to his 'unreadable smurf' story in this explanation (see bolded): On November 13 2012 11:21 debears wrote: Alright, let me spell it out for you 1) Hapa asked if cross was smurf 2) I said there was nothing to discuss about him being smurf, since he hadn't posted much 3) Marv says cross is cross So, my point was that you can't make a basis whether he is indeed a smurf until he posts enough so that vet's recognize him. That makes discussing it early irrelevant. Now, 1) Hopeless comes in lecturing (anti-town) 2) I ask whether it fits his meta 3) You jump on me saying it's a contradiction to what I said It isn't a contradiction. Behavior > meta, especially if players are aware of their meta. Now, if behavior is totally against a player's town meta, and that behavior is scummy, then there are alarms that go off Why does he neglect to clarify his current stance on how we may or may not be able to read cross? His explanations is ambiguous in that he can insist it was his opinion BEFORE marv's 'cross is cross' post and that it changed afterwards, which we were all to dense to notice, herpaderp. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 14 2012 00:34 debears wrote: @Hopless <----when u get back Here was my post on clarity that you mentioned earlier. Now here's your post talking about my opinion on clarity How was that one post on clarity "unfair". This sounds like an emotional defense of Clarity, which you have no reason to do as town. Also, since it's early d1, we have to start from somewhere? Is it the greatest accusation in the world? No. But we can build from that Also, Clarity's posting was similar to his scum game at that point imo, along with the active lurking. Why wouldn't I point that out? If I call someone out early d1, it usually means I want to see more out of them. There was no vote. There was no "OMG clarity is scum guyzzzzz!!!!" Why were you so eager to try and discredit my opinion by saying "unfair"? @debears - That's my fault for putting words in Marv's mouth. I thought that was the intention behind: On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote: you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts. If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. | ||
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On November 14 2012 04:38 debears wrote: Iamp's switch on Z-Bo is alarming to me. Let me explain why Town read on Z-Bo + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 09:50 iamperfection wrote: zbos explained it in his post would have been very risky in my view. On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote: its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. Alright, these two posts seem pretty strong saying that Z-Bo is townie. Note the word use "very risky for scum" and "scum wouldn't put themselves out there like that" On November 13 2012 10:33 iamperfection wrote: guys a town zbos could lie if he was blue He could be scum he could be vt. I'm inclined looking at the comment that he was just writing what he thought and that it was probably true. He just had a slip of the tongue so i'm actually inclined to think it was actually the truth. It didn't look like to me as a scum making a post in order to put a claim together. Boom i got two town reads already which you gonna do mafia?????????? Here he states outright that he has a town read on Z-Bo Note that his town read is a null tell to me. Suspicions of BH ----> Agreeing with BH Next, iamp becomes suspicious of BH + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 11:31 iamperfection wrote: so uh this guys is like not helping right now and i expect better from him since i hold him in high regards. i say we force his hand. ## Vote Blazinghand Especially since he made it obvious that he was here with his "lol" Note the timestamp. 30 minutes later, this comes out On November 14 2012 00:04 iamperfection wrote: LOL dont you dare talk down to me you little punk. You criticize me when YOU were the one being all terrible with your first couple of posts. Being all herp derp i don't have to contribute even though interesting things were happening at the time. Give me a break But that being said ## Unvote Your case on zbos reminds me more of your play from rockband more then the way you were being early on. Lokking at what zbos has posted especially this crap which bh pointed out If you look closely debears never said anything about being able to tell if marv is town or not from an anyltical standpoint he made it pretty clear that it was not the case and that he had said he was simply going to vote for him no matter what. Zbos totally misrepresents what is being said here and if he has the courage to throw a vote out for it you would have thought he would have read clearly what he was in fact voting for. This post here is also another pile of crap and its the iamperfection rule of whoever defends me is probably scum. If he cared at all to check in gsl III where i was scum which he played in lollololol i thrw around 2 strong town reads early on he should know this and the fact that he isnt willing to do any legwork in order to find out is more evidence not in his favor. This post is also extremly wishy washy on everything he said. I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. so ## Vote zboson Note the two changes here 1) BH is suddenly town because of one case 30 minutes after iamp's original suspicion 2) Z-Bo is suddenly scum because of BH's case Note his poor reasoning. His first point is BH's reasoning. His second point is the "imperfection rule"...Really??????? Also, remember that it was and is the first half of d1 at this point. Why is he jumping on Z-Bo for two fucking posts? Why is he jumping on a case from a person whom he thought was suspicious 30 minutes prior? See how poor that reasoning is? When you switch from a town read to a scum read, you're reasoning should be pretty good. An apparent guilty conscience Ok. What does this line from his vote post on Z-Bo tell us about iamp? 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him 2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote -note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time Point 1 is a null tell. Point 2 doesn't make any sense from a townie perspective. What are your guy's thoughts??? The only thing I really disagree with is the 'guilty conscience' as I would probably do the same thing. However, he not only flipflopped his town read, he sheeped his former scumread, with poorly explained reasoning as noted. I need to review his meta looking for posts like this: On November 13 2012 10:35 iamperfection wrote: also ## Unvote Hapa I liked his thinking in this post For now... This post is so trivial...the explanation is like asking "Why?" and getting the answer "Because." | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 14 2012 05:16 Blazinghand wrote: im not sure ive called it a masterpiece but yeah its good Are you back at a computer yet? | ||
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On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote: For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote: Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote: Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post). Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet. The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debears Am I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? | ||
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Hopeless1der
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Liquid City he barely explains his reasoning, he was blue. GSL II, similar traits, but scum. I'd rather lynch BH over iamperfection today if that puts anything in perspective. That is not me saying I want to lynch BH, he's just higher on the list than perfection. | ||
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On November 15 2012 01:50 marvellosity wrote: I had a dig through filters because I was interested in gauging some reactions to BH's claim. thrawn - doesn't mention it. He makes me uncomfortable with his absence, but... meh. debears - also doesn't mention it. At all. I find this *extremely* odd, given that he commented on s&b's "claim" and also referenced Z-Bo's. It seems unlike him not to comment on it at all. The only time he's really mentioned it is screaming in all caps that we're not lynching a claimed blue Day 1. Hopeless - also doesn't mention it. Which is extremely odd for this reason: Attacks debears for not commenting on BH's claim but hasn't done so himself. I cannot explain why very clearly, but I just don't think we should be lynching DarthPunk today. I think the lynch should be between Hopeless and debears, and I'd like people to talk about that, a lot. At the moment this makes me lean on Hopeless (and yes, I'm aware I'm flipflopping on him like mad). ##Vote: Hopeless1der Fuck IRL excuses, but I'm not going to be here for at least 4 hours. That part of my post was a combination of I skimmed the thread, saw BH claim, thought it was ridiculous and noticed that debears was still tunneling me and hadn't commented on it. My fault for not making my own comments on BH's claim (it was retarded), but debears STILL has not commented on it. He's also not commented in the slightest on the fact that I've voted for him, which I find incredibly suspicious, like it he just ignores it, no one will look at him. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote: I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. I can't be scum. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 15 2012 06:19 Clarity_nl wrote: Hopeless why are you not out there giving us your strongest reads and making cases? Even if you can't prevent the lynch, if you flip town we can read your filter and know it is all genuine. I just got back. I'm doing that now. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess. Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out. Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about) Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town. He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now. | ||
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On November 15 2012 06:51 Hapahauli wrote: I'm baaaaaaack Why are there only 3 votes on debears? Because I'm scumbait, #1 | ||
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Me - Town Debears - Scum Thrawn - Still alive in Acme. Also drastically inactive. His excuse is getting too high. Checks out. Null DarthPunk - His play doesn't fit any Mafia meta at all (Mafia = the game itself, not the alignment). Also still alive in Acme. Checks out. Null Kickstarter - First game. Calls Hapa scummy, then BH and Hapa as scumbuddies. He goes on to suggest that flipping one is the same as flipping the other+ Show Spoiler + On November 14 2012 12:27 Kickstart wrote: I already said how I view it - him pressuring and questioning people, I don't feel that he needs to change his vote to the person he is pressuring / trying to get a read on? Would it help? Maybe. Is it a scum tell that he didn't? Not to me. and I see we are quickly posting back and forth so I will just reiterate on: Again, I am reading both you and BH as scummy. I was going to vote him and if he flipped red auto vote you, but now that he jk claimed I am just as content to do the opposite - vote you and if you flip red vote him. And the above should do fine in response to BHs snarky comment. My voting has nothing to do with being a man or not, you are overusing that line. I am keeping my vote on Hapa for now  , and if he does get lynched and flips red, I will gladly vote for you immediatly. He goes on to vote me, but just lumps himself into the 'other cases on me'. I realize it may be an effort to consolidate, but he has offered nothing other than his vote and I find that scummy. In addition, he feels that Hapa has redeemed himself, and BH can't be lynched today due to his claim. However, there is no discussion from him regarding the two (current) lynch candidates. Again, I find this scummy. I had to pull the information from him, instead of him offering it up freely. Pot, Kettle, Black, but its no less true. Crossfire - has posted very little. My read on him is that he and BH are not both scum. All his posts have related to BH in some way so far, and seem sincere in that he cannot understand the need to claim. I'm null on him, with the caveat that if BH flips scum, he's most likely town. Hapa - town, largely due to connections between him and debears, and between him and kickstart. This read has severely influenced my current scumreads. BH is trolly as fuck, but unlynchable today due to an uncountered JK claim. I haven't read into his meta, because there is no chance to push his lynch, even if I can make a convincing case. Despite this, I think the trolling is scummy, and I'll need to read the threads he's referenced during the night (assuming I'm not lynched). Marv - Town. Huge filter but its not really spammy. I get the feeling he cares, is active and is helping to organize town. Even if hes not town, which I think he is, I'd want to watch him sit idle as down destroys itself before I feel the need to vote him. This read is based on meta from games I played with marv: Mad Men (Town-Marv), and Death Note (Scum-Marv). iamperfection - Null. I've commented on this already. I'm sad that he doesn't want to lynch debears and sadder that it means he'll probably vote me, but I don't have scum alarms going off. Clarity - Town. He seems to misread the thread or just confuse people alot. I feel that type of repeating 'mistake' is less likely to happen as scum. Fairly active and is sticking to his read on DP. Also is seen trying to focus people into more productive avenues. Could be called faked activity, but his intentions are open for all to see. I'd like to know where he stands at present between me and debears though. Z-Bo - Town. I liked his pursuit of his case against BH and thought he brought up some legitimate points. Apparently they were so good BH had to claim to escape. Also, tried to get a meta read on me, concludes I'm scum. Slight contradictions from his earlier stance that I was similar to the game he meta'd me with, and I know he's wrong, but that doesn't make him scum. His conclusions are true and he looks like he's legitimately trying to catch scum. Strongandbig - Null-Town. Strange vt claim feels townslippy. However, Kenpachi rule shenanigans and insists on lynching BH for a while, despite blueclaim. Too strong of a scum motive to just let that slide, but I also think BH is scummy, so this read flips to Null-Scum if BH is in fact JK. | ||
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On November 15 2012 07:02 Dandel Ion wrote: Votecount: debears (4): Hapahauli, Hopeless1der, marvellosity, strongandbig DarthPunk (3): Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, iamperfection Hopeless1der (3): debears, Z-BosoN, Kickstart Hapahauli (1): Blazinghand Not voting (2): Crossfire99, DarthPunk Currently, debears is set to be lynched! 4 hours remaining in day 1. Please PM any of your resident votecount bitches (or mighty master Keir) if your vote is counted incorrectly. Remember: If you don't vote at all, the divine wrath of the mod will strike you. Full version: + Show Spoiler + debears (4): DarthPunk (3): Hopeless1der (3): debears, Hapahauli (1): Blazinghand (0): iamperfection (0): Z-BosoN (0): thrawn2112 (0): strongandbig (0): Clarity_nl (0): marvellosity (0): Not voting (2): Crossfire99, DarthPunk Currently ~3 hours to deadline. Also, heavy modkill implications. Cross and DP, votes plox. On November 15 2012 07:47 iamperfection wrote: ya i dont want to lynch hopeless. Although there is some silly association stuff that i dont personally like. But at least he is doing what you should if your town and under large pressure near lynch time. I would never pursue a lynch based on association without flips to support. These suspicions (I'm guessing the Hapa-debears-kickstart ones) are supplementary and were shaped around my strongest scumread, which is debears. If debears flips red, I'm not going to just autolynch kickstart, but I will point back to my read and pressure him for scumhunting because of my read. Similarly, it doesn't confirm Hapa as town, but it would be a strong indicator to me. | ||
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Hopeless1der
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On November 15 2012 08:18 debears wrote: Hey S&B When were those posts? Early D1 if I recall What have you posted that's so great? You trolled in the beginning. Now you're being hypocritical in your vote Spread more shit on every other player. That'll save you 100% | ||
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On November 15 2012 08:53 Hapahauli wrote: That's fucking rediculous debears. I have no idea why I'm going to respond to it, but hopefully I can show the thread how desperate you are right now: 1) "Overkill" case: I've used this in my TOWN games. It is not about "scumhunting too hard" at all. Rockband Mini for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250¤tpage=40#796 2) I'm scummy because my case isn't based around debears meta. ROFL. 3) ROFL at no meta again. ROFL at not responding to my relevant case AGAIN. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#937 4) AGAIN, Hopeless is very capable of doing this as town. But to all the townies out there, please read debears "case." He thinks I"m scummy because I'm not using a fucking meta read on him. But here's a meta read - debears is active as town OR scum, but what's distinguishing is his logic. This is a prime example of the crazy illogical things he uses to put suspicion on people as scum. You've just committed to showing shitty logic from scum debears =\ | ||
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On November 15 2012 08:56 Clarity_nl wrote: It's rather hard to post perfect logic when you're scum and you HAVE to show suspicion of confirmed townies. What's your point? That debears is going to rage at OMG META READ WITH NO EXAMPLES | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:32 Blazinghand wrote: He's claiming difficulty connecting to TL No I'm not. Its roughly a 30 minute drive to get home. I work at a mine in the mountains of NE British Columbia. There isn't even cell reception on the way home (and I drove). I'm back and re-reading now. | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:54 debears wrote: Wait DP and Z-Bo think hapa is scum? ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless wat... | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:55 Clarity_nl wrote: We're not killing debears. We're killing either zbo or you, so you better vote zbo. Unless you're superawesometown who sacrifices himself for the sake of town. I'd buy that. fuck that, debears is still an option. Im not voting Zbo unless it saves me | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:56 Z-BosoN wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote hapahauli Is what I meant. | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:59 Hapahauli wrote: This such fucking bullshit it's cool, we'll solve the game with this shitstorm | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:13 debears wrote: hopeless is scum too btw This doesn't prove anything. Sadly, I can't continue to tunnel you right now. Make a case on more than my lack of activity please. Tie me to Hapa if you want (its fucking easy, I kept spouting off about how town he was), just stop attacking me with no case please. | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote: ##Unvote Yeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. Can we please lynch this guy? Please? ##Vote Debears On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote ##Vote Z-Boson Does this semi-confirm either of these two? Hapa thought he was safe at this point, and was most likely trying to push a mislynch | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:25 DarthPunk wrote: You are far from confiremd ZB and your last 'will' was a WIFOM bomb if I ever saw it. I am calling BH, HAPA, ZB team right now. How the fuck do you get to do this shit but I dont? | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:26 strongandbig wrote: nono it's hapa db, bh is sk tehres a scam minsng furm ur list | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:39 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah but I don't think anyone on the Hapa wagon is confirmed town. Even looking at my own position, there's nothing confirmed about my town-ness. I think it makes little sense for a guy like DP or me to lynch Hapa if we were scum, but we are really the opposite of confirmed town. We're scummy players with mitigating circumstances. I have a very hard time calling DP scum right now. IF he was scum, and IF he had voted ZB instead of Hapa, and IF ZB had flipped town, would that have told us anything about Hapa? That shitstorm was so volatile that I have a hard time making sense of things with a Bowser flip. He's not confirmed in the slightest, but he looks very very townie based on those 'mitigating circumstances'. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:44 Blazinghand wrote: I'm not calling DP scum either. I'm just saying he's not confirmed town-- we have no confirmed town. We're not lynching DP tomorrow and I'm sure as hell not voting him, because no case can be made against him, but that's based on his actions when his ass was on the line and his contribution to the wagon. There's no confirmed town. There's no confirmed town. I agree, but I don't think DP falls in the 'scummy with mitigating circumstances' category. I'm not really convinced you fall there either anymore. | ||
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Seriously I was about to post this when I saw in Hapa's filter. Holy shit that's funny. | ||
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or he was trying to deflect attention off me | ||
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On November 10 2012 03:33 Blazinghand wrote: I never pay attention to IRL excuses under any circumstances. Easily lied about. Edit: In a way, I almost consider talking about IRL excuses "cheating" in the sense that it's a non-defense that people for whatever reason accept. If I'm ever away from the thread for a period of time, I never give a reason for it. Mafia is about mafia, and that's it. He wasn't really away from the thread, but he did ridiculous things in the name of knowing he had IRL shit to take care of. | ||
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On November 15 2012 23:56 marvellosity wrote: Hopeless - what are your scum games other than Acme? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066 Newbie 20 Hapa demolished me day 1. I doubt you find it incredibly useful. | ||
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On November 16 2012 00:38 marvellosity wrote: Do you have any thoughts on players/events now, Hopeless? I think BH is full of shit. In Hapa's newbie scum game, we lynched a blue (calgar) at LYLO. Shortly thereafter,: On July 30 2012 08:28 calgar wrote: Coach advised it was wrong move + worthless so yep. Guess who the coach was... This is just more evidence that what BH did was ridiculous. But I guess we already know that. Z-Bo's timing of this post: On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI. LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3. marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Was RIGHT before the push for Hapa began. I can't begin to fathom HOW Z-Bo called it, but everything else about him looks townie about the way the lynch went down. DP is a townread due to it being completely unnecessary to bus Hapa like that. Unless the scumteam is Z-Bo/Hapa/DP, it just feels like DP being town is the simpler explanation. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On November 15 2012 08:55 Hopeless1der wrote: You've just committed to showing shitty logic from scum debears =\ In the event that debears was lynched, I would have gone straight after Hapa until he gave the meta case on debears, even after he was dead. He'd spent so much time saying debears was deflective and that he didn't need meta, but then SUDDENLY! A meta appears. | ||
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*gives marv $10* | ||
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On November 16 2012 00:57 Clarity_nl wrote: What's your read on me, Hopeless? Uhh....reading your filter is worth a shot, I guess. brb | ||
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On November 16 2012 01:11 debears wrote: You don't even know i'm town, and you didn't then. You thought I was scum Yet you sound like u knew i would flip town ##FOS Hopeless Man, I realize I'm almost confirmed scum to you, but Hapa gave you a leg to stand on when he made that comment and I'll be damned if I just ignore that. I thought it was going to save you as scum, but it goes both ways in that he is revealing that there was more to his read against you that he didn't use to get you lynched. That is most un-Hapa-like behavior. | ||
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On November 16 2012 05:23 Clarity_nl wrote: Hopeless do you plan on posting a detailed read on me while giving me time to respond tonight? I'll be around before the NK. Yes, I plan to have it in the hour before deadline. | ||
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On November 14 2012 05:00 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah.... making a case on Darth isn't working, which I think in itself says a lot. If you guys somehow haven't noticed. Take a look at Darth's filter. It's basically a bunch of one-liners, jokes, the occasional null read on others. It doesn't actually help town. The only things that stand out in his filter are him voting for SnB with the comment "so retarded" (which apparantly is a null tell, judging by his previous games, he throws the word around a lot) After I jump on the SnB wagon, he votes for me without explaining. Later on he quotes his own post of him voting for me and explains why, after I explain my reasoning he quickly unvotes me and hops back on SnB. He then claims he's just "throwing his vote around", but he doesn't ask questions or make comments about me or SnB. Then why vote for him? Because if it was to pressure, why wouldn't he actually explain why he's voted this way or ask questions? You either vote to lynch or you vote to pressure. But Darth's vote was.... neither? ##Vote DarthPunk Case isn't really working, but he votes DP anyways. He's already addressed this, in response to Hapa: On November 14 2012 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote: @ Hapa What I meant was: "I'm having trouble making a case on him" The reason I said this was because that actually speaks volumes about how he's been playing. 3 pages of filter and nothing to go on, even when you look closely. I didn't find some "scum gem" in one of his posts and started from there. I had a gut feeling and when I looked into him I found nothing that makes him town or scum, and that's concerning to me. I did provide analysis. The back and forth between Clarity and Hapa has been kind of meh. I'm looking for connections that may not exist, but Hapa later votes for DP when Darth makes a case on Clarity but doesn't vote. DP explicitly said he would make a case on clarity: On November 15 2012 01:20 DarthPunk wrote: Clarity Is a gut scum read. I couldn't tell you exactly why. but something is off. I plan to look through clarities filter when I get up. Its bad of him to not vote for his scum read, but good of him to provide the case he said he would. It was also really close to deadline so the chances of swinging votes onto a new case was unlikely. On November 15 2012 01:16 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv you're gonna have to tell me what this quiz thing was, or maybe refer me to where you did it in another game? I'm intrigued. @ Darth You're not getting lynched today, if you had read the thread you would know this. Clarity's vote was on DarthPunk at this point. How do you screw this up? On November 15 2012 01:33 Clarity_nl wrote: I just realized I got DP and BH mixed up big time. I said DP isn't getting lynched today and that's completely false... TT Back in 3.5 hours or so. Night DP. On November 15 2012 05:37 Clarity_nl wrote: Just got back and caught up. A lot happened. Iamp claimed he's staying on Darth, how about you thrawn? Because if you plan on moving I'll have to make a decision between debears and.... Hopeless? I don't like debears' reaction to accusations at all, very emotional with not much weight or facts behind it. When he got accused of being scum D1 in XXX he addressed the points and moved on to scumhunt. That said I don't think that makes him scum and the cases against him didn't convince me. So hopeless. Well there definitely is nothing townie about him, I believe he's the better lynch candidate. I still want my Darth lynch though, so Thrawn, whadya say? The consolidation reasoning between me and debears is really shitty. He doesn't care who dies, but would prefer me, because Hapa is unlikely to die while pushing debears and they get to push his mislynch after mine On November 15 2012 05:58 Clarity_nl wrote: I never answered this, so I will now, it's scummy. You don't want to keep yourself alive as town? This post rubs me the wrong way, its twisting DP's response. DP didn't want to give town lies/false information. That's a townie sentiment. Staying alive is great, but if it costs you your credibility or doesn't actually catch scum, its not useful. On November 15 2012 06:07 Clarity_nl wrote: That's my point. He's implying it means he's town. It doesn't. I basically disagree with this conclusion On November 15 2012 06:19 Clarity_nl wrote: Hopeless why are you not out there giving us your strongest reads and making cases? Even if you can't prevent the lynch, if you flip town we can read your filter and know it is all genuine. On November 15 2012 06:31 Clarity_nl wrote: Hopeless, other than debears, what are your thoughts on others? Even if you have null reads, please share them, explain them. I could see him being complacent, considering he's not up for the lynch, but these posts are kind of filler. They helped push me to get off the hook, but he didn't really need to tell me to do this. On November 15 2012 07:48 Clarity_nl wrote: Thanks hopeless for posting your thoughts. Yeah I've been misspeaking (typing) a lot, and it's quite a pain every time someone points it out. But if it gives people a town read of me, great! To answer your question of where I stand: I'd like to change this a bit though. Based solely on the fact that hopeless has been posting reads and answering questions clearly and concisely now. Whereas debears is nowhere to be found, his defense is lackluster and his case on hapa seems OMGUS. 180 on his read concerning me/debears. Could be legit, but it took a while for him to say it. Meanwhile, his vote has been parked on DP for ages On November 15 2012 08:49 Clarity_nl wrote: Debears your case boils down to: "Hapa hasn't posted a meta read so the rest of his case doesn't matter" Have you considered that your town and scum meta D1 are rather similar, so there is no meta read to be made? Debears was 100% right to demand this of Hapa. Weak connection tell. On November 15 2012 09:09 Clarity_nl wrote: I feel I am at a disadvantage, not having a natural meta awareness about most people in this thread. I do try to read people's older games after I am done reading through their filter, but I just read their filter, which means their posts lose context.. somewhat. That said, marv's case makes a lot of sense. I mean, he used the word propensity, how can I resist. ##Unvote ##Vote Z-BosoN Blind Sheep, no accountability in his actions. "propensity" Despite all that time revising his read between me and debears, his vote finally moves so he can sheep Marv's case On November 15 2012 09:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I hope everyone is cool with me addressing DP's case after lynchtime, because it'll clog up the thread and we need to consolidate right about now. @ Hapa Aren't you saying the opposite of what the log suggests? In the log he says "I guess I should post less" and you tell him to post more anyway. Yet he hasn't. "My scumreads aren't important." On November 15 2012 10:09 Clarity_nl wrote: Okay, well first off unvote Blazing because that's not happening. Read Hapa's cases, debears responses and cases on hopeless. Read marv's case on zbo. Your choices currently are: debears, hopeless, zbo On November 15 2012 10:18 Clarity_nl wrote: Blazing, get your vote somewhere useful. Z-Boson, get your vote somewhere. On November 15 2012 10:46 Clarity_nl wrote: Starting to feel that way. I'm having a hard time explaining why though. On November 15 2012 10:55 Clarity_nl wrote: We're not killing debears. We're killing either zbo or you, so you better vote zbo. Unless you're superawesometown who sacrifices himself for the sake of town. I'd buy that. On November 15 2012 10:59 Clarity_nl wrote: Well, at least we'll have lots of information to look over when this shitstorm is over. Lots of summarizing the current events without doing anything useful. Re-read his filter leading up to the lynch. He keeps redirecting people to vote the latest bandwagon, fueling the chaos. When its finally Hapa, he's finally had enough of the last-minute shenanigans On November 15 2012 10:57 Clarity_nl wrote: No, this is terrible. 3 minutes before lynch and a hapa wagon has started. No one has made a good case on him all day. On November 15 2012 11:14 Clarity_nl wrote: Is it bad of me that I still feel that was fucking dumb as shit? On November 15 2012 11:15 Clarity_nl wrote: Blazinghand, before I forget, in the last hour of night I'd like you to post your night action. Like we'd ever forget about BH and his craaazeee antics. Clarity isn't seen pushing his own reads, just commenting on the fact that they're still there and he's considering the consolidation targets. Other than that, his filter is full of small queries for everyone flitting in and out of the thread. | ||
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On November 16 2012 08:19 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the voice of fucking reason during the final hour, yet you accuse me of "fueling the chaos" I respectfully disagree. My case is there. General tone is not actually attempting to scumhunt, its to look active. | ||
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On November 16 2012 08:25 marvellosity wrote: what does the case do for your read on hopeless, clar? Not sure what i make of the case itself, whether it's genuine or not. Some of it is silly like mixing names up. Why does that have to be scummy? The quote where it says "my scumreads aren't important" Clarity in that quote was saying that he would address DarthPunk's case ON Clarity, as Clarity wasn't getting lynched day 1, which isn't the same thing at all. You're right not the same thing, but how many times does clarity say DP is his read, and how many times does he do anything about it? Would this not have been a reasonable opportunity to push DP? Also, how often do you mistake who your top read is? Or who you are currently voting for? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=46#905 On November 15 2012 01:16 Clarity_nl wrote: Marv you're gonna have to tell me what this quiz thing was, or maybe refer me to where you did it in another game? I'm intrigued. @ Darth You're not getting lynched today, if you had read the thread you would know this. reread that section of the thread, skim the previous page, and tell me thats not a very strange mistake, as though he 'forgot' who he was voting or thought DP had claimed JK. I can't see a townie fucking that up if DP is actually their scumread, for as long as DP was his scumread. | ||
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On November 16 2012 09:09 Clarity_nl wrote: I was talking to darth, and then blazing posted, and I thought it was still darth talking. Someone comment on whether they believe this statement On November 16 2012 09:09 Clarity_nl wrote: Again, explain my motivation as scum to switch two people like an idiot. There's no motivation behind it, you just forgot who you were voting, or thought DP claimed JK. You weren't reading properly or something, I don't know, but its not townie. | ||
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On November 16 2012 09:27 Clarity_nl wrote: Okay well you're obviously not going to convince me, so I'd like you to pick someone and converse with them about the possibility of me being scum. That's basically why I'm waiting. | ||
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[QUOTE]On November 16 2012 09:15 Hopeless1der wrote: [QUOTE]On November 16 2012 09:09 Clarity_nl wrote: I was talking to darth, and then blazing posted, and I thought it was still darth talking. [/quote] Someone comment on whether they believe this statement | ||
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iamperfection: On November 16 2012 09:15 Hopeless1der wrote: Someone comment on whether they believe this statement | ||
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On November 16 2012 09:44 Blazinghand wrote: Hopeless' case is utterly unreasonable Very well. I expect you to catch the remaining scumteam immediately upon daypost. | ||
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On November 16 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: like i misspoke as well before hopeless in regards to s&b Yes, but the number of times that clarity says DP is his scum read, does nothing about it, and manages to make that mistake are not things I'd consider 'being a town player'. I don't have a strong argument for why it was heavily scum motivated. I can make one up to suit my case, but I could do that to every player in the game. We lynched Hapa in a clusterfuck of a last minute shitstorm. Associative tells go to shit. 'Pushing a scum agenda' reads go to shit. I found what I thought was non-town behavior and I made a case. | ||
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The list post was me legitimately thinking I could die and putting what I could out there before I died. Also, Whose Line had the alphabet game going on. Being concise was of paramount importance that game, as cross can testify to. Last thing...we were confirmed town to one another in that game. That may be colouring your interpretation of the situation, as you KNEW my case on BKE was sincere, whereas you don't know this game, and I'm playing an arguably worse game. | ||
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On your thrawn read, i want to know more about this before I'm willing to lynch him: On November 15 2012 09:28 thrawn2112 wrote: then why are you singling out boson as opposed to any of the other people who have a similar or smaller amount of content? there are people with less contributions including myself. it looks like the case is built entirely upon a meta read. that brings me to what i've been worrying about for awhile now... i'm surprised that marv and hapa specifically haven't been questioning me harder than they have been. maybe some of the other people i've played with too, but those two specifically should know that my play looks nothing like it normally does. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:26 debears wrote: You know what is really funny HOPELESS DIDN'T FEEL THAT WAY WHEN I MENTIONED THE WHOLE HAPA DIDN'T MAKE ANY META ON ME. HOPELESS THOUGHT I WAS SCUM AND DIDN'T CHANGE HIS VOTE. HE NEVER STATED THIS AT THE TIME. HE'S LYING AND MAKING SHIT UP right? Hapa has since flipped scum. Of course you were right. I was wrong. I WAS WRONG. I WAS WRONG, THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME SCUM | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:42 debears wrote: If BH is indeed JK, marv is town, DP is town, and Z-Bo is town Mafia sure had a hard time deciding nk lol Z-Bo could just as easily be scum instead of SnB on your list. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:44 debears wrote: YOU'RE ACCUSING HIM OF NOT THINKING ANYTHING OF IT AT THE TIME WHEN YOU DIDN'T. CONTRADICTION MUCH? Massive contradiction. I don't care, its a reason for me to think that a player who is not me (me=town) is potentially scum. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:56 Blazinghand wrote: I hereby claim all town cred when crossfire flips scum Bitch that cred is mine | ||
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On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote: Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debears Am I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? "shoot" referring to vig shot On November 16 2012 04:20 Hopeless1der wrote: Crossfire in the crosshairs, we get it team. The shot itself. Also, I was about to shoot clarity, but a) actually thought my case wasn't terrible and b) cross looked like a way better shot. On November 16 2012 01:03 Hopeless1der wrote: Uhh....reading your filter is worth a shot, I guess. brb | ||
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On November 16 2012 11:01 Clarity_nl wrote: Hopeless could still be SK, btw. Anyway, it was a good night for us. I could be...but its hella unlikely. | ||
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If I was scum, I just shot another scum, or SOMEONE ELSE shot cross, and I just happened to breadcrumb the right player by some miracle. | ||
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On November 16 2012 11:02 Clarity_nl wrote: Wait, you were gonna shoot me? The hell. I was, I still think you're scummy. I need to reread just in case, but yes, I was going to shoot you. | ||
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On November 16 2012 11:13 debears wrote: Convenient? If he is JK, which mafia should have believed the whole time if he is town, would have to rb him... This means Kamek remains, and it is unlikely that an SK exists. I'm off to setup speculation land. Also: *CONFIRMATION BIAS GOGGLES* On November 15 2012 10:06 Crossfire99 wrote: Yeah, so I just started to write the below post at school when the internet crapped out on me + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bZXRx.jpg) I don't know if the mafia way requires more assumptions. Even if it does and "seems" like the least likely option it might not be. I'll give you two examples from my two recent games. In Aperature 2, the godfather was lynched day 1 with 4 votes with me being the hammer. It was plurality lynch with 13 players. There was assumed to be a 3 man scum team (which there was btw, even if there was only a 2 man scum team, my point still holds). I wasn't scum (I was 3rd party) and I assumed that there was no way that the other 3 guys were scum. It made no sense to me because all they had to do was switch off onto someone else with 2 votes before I voted (I voted very late day 1 IIRC), and then that guy was going to be lynched. It turns out there was a scum bussing the godfather day 1 because of extenuating irl circumstances for the godfather. In my last game, WLIIA, strong claimed blue night 1 as scum and we all believed him because his name claim matched with the other blues in the game. I even made a post attacking the two remaining "non confirmed" townies in the game because one of them had to be scum. Even though they both played really townie and I said so in my cases on them, it still was the "most likely" solution. It turns out it wasn't the case and I eventually began to doubt strong's claim, which was the right thing to do. Both of those examples show that just because something seems "more likely" doesn't mean it is so. We don't know what is going on in the mafia qt, so we just have to look for scummy behavior. We have found scummy behavior in blazing. Strong went over this in the post listed below. + Show Spoiler + On November 14 2012 23:06 strongandbig wrote: that sir is what's called "pushing your luck" BH posted this after reading exactly the same explanation from DP that I read, and exactly the same comments on DP's meta from marv as I read, and doing exactly the same amount of work looking into DP's actual scum/town meta as I did (none) - and yet he comes up with a vote? Without at all addressing the points from Marv and from himself about DP's meta? And without addressing the other game in progress issue - which isn't an "unverifiable irl excuse," we can go look at the thread - and yet he comes up with a vote? guys what we have out of BH is not just a scummy and needless claim - we have a scummy and needless claim from a player who isn't playing up to his usual town standard in several ways - bad cases - trolling/fluff while taking the easy opportunity to gain points by attacking other people for fluff and most importantly - the huge mismatch in thread presence, thread control, and town organization between BH's last town game (whose line) and this game And then we have BH psychology: he just saw me do well - not win, except for self-declaring victory, but do much better than I should have given how the game started out - he saw me do well by fakeclaiming blue and then really pushing that fakeclaim hard. He also just had what I assume must be a trollgasm from evoking ridiculous reactions from Keirathi in that same game. Now he's claimed blue for no good reason, and it's a blue role that he can "verify" easily by withholding KP, or that he can make unverifiable by claiming to be roleblocked. There's no way a town BH decides "there are 3 or 4 votes on me, like 30 hours before the lynch - time to claim!" I just don't believe that thought process is real. ##vote: blazinghand This post on blazing is making me change my mind about strong. I like his reasoning and I now see him as more townie than scummy. He did post a lot of unnecessary fluff and one liners, but I did that in my last game, WLIIA, and I was town. ##Vote Blazinghand On November 15 2012 10:07 Clarity_nl wrote: BLAZINGHAND? REALLY?! PERFECT TIMING But otherwise, I don't think clarity is scum from his night discussions. | ||
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On November 16 2012 06:53 Dandel Ion wrote: The only other thing I am aware of is that Keir set the night action resolution priority to "scum RB > town RB/jail > everything else". Not sure if that's non-standard though.. I am but a newbie after all. If town JK/RB and scum RB target each other (AND scum RB has the nk shot)....? I`d like to confirm the resolution. | ||
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On November 16 2012 11:29 Dandel Ion wrote: In that case the shot goes through. Scum RB has higher priority. Okay, BH is officially useless for the rest of the game as a blue (if he's blue). However, BH is still a powerful town player, if he is town. Scum almost have to shoot him before getting to LYLO, so I'd rather leave him alive for the time being. I am tentatively a sheep. ##Vote: Strongandbig I still need to actually reread the thread. | ||
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On November 17 2012 00:11 iamperfection wrote: ebwop by the way the acme game is almost about hear the train that is this game about to run them over in terms of activity CHOOO CHOOOOOO!! | ||
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Unless a townie claims the block on BH, it means scum have Kamek remaining and C9++ requires 0, 1, or 2 "T's" to have Goon, Roleblocker, Godfather (and possible SK). That means 5 'rolls' went towards blue's. I don't know how that ends up working out since Vig's are all one-shot and doctors are JK's instead, but I think there is at least 1 unclaimed blue. I don't want to mass claim because its not likely to get us much more to work with. I'm pissed that I can't ask thrawn why he was being un-thrawny. He specifically referenced the fact that Hapa and Marv should have been on his case and now they're all gone. I need djo to get off of BH for a moment and find scum elsewhere. He seems to be barking at clarity for the moment, so I'll see how that goes. | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote: My claim was necessary. I played bad and was forced to claim, but the claim itself, given the circumstances, was the right call. This is bullshit, and its been discussed ad nauseum. This post is a reminder that BH is my number 1 priority lynch pending night action resolution. I also don't want to lynch SnB. ##Unvote There is only ONE way that any remaining anti-town factions KNOW who the other is: Scum shot bulletproof SK and SK shot marv. (This assumes I'm actually a vig) That means that at best, there is a one-directional association case that could be made for the remaining players. 'Saving' or 'bussing' teammates no longer applies. The only player cross gave anything on was BH. Hapa is too jumpy to get anything reliable out of. I think I can get behind Darth's WIFOM bomb theory regarding Z-Bo. I'm going to look through his meta to see if that pans out. | ||
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On November 17 2012 10:15 debears wrote: Does anyone know the odds of a miller being in the setup with: 1) a jk/scum rb 2) a vig 3) a gf I don't feel like crunching actual numbers, but that setup would only require: MVD #### M=mason/miller. 1 M usually means innocent child, but that was replaced by miller. V=Vig - All are single shot, so this roll is questionable as to how it gets handed out D=Doctor/Jailkeeper 4 "unknown" rolls, however, some may need to be duplicates to actually generate the blue. Therefore I`d estimate an additional 2 blues in this game. As always setup speculation is tedious and not worth that much in the grand scheme of things when playing a semi-open setup. I think we should leave it alone unless someone claims scum through attempted setup-based manipulation. On November 17 2012 10:28 iamperfection wrote: he did actually he just didn't mention cross. That damn near clears djo as far as association cases go. | ||
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##Vote: Z-Booson | ||
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/agree with BH on save claims for later. At the earliest, during night resolution, but do not feel that you have to. I felt it was necessary for me to claim considering the amount of suspicion against me, and the fact that marv's top two scumreads got eliminated if my claim was true. It served a purpose to claim the way I did, it wasn't arbitrary or strictly to save my own ass (though this was a factor). | ||
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On November 14 2012 09:18 Z-BosoN wrote: Allrighty back. Dammit BH, I really think you should have saved your claim until later, you gave up too easily :/ I wasn't as certain on you as it might have seemed, but I wanted to gauge your reaction by throwing you against the wall. Anyways, here's what I think of this game so far. marv is likely town. He's a difficult town read to give, but his posting here seems genuine, and is much different than in GSL. Either he's trying much harder as scum or he's town. For now I'll go with the latter. Clarity is likely town. Just look at him being all cute under a major dirt-flinging fest. I'm townie, and so must be BH right now, so if I know my XXX analysis straight, scum hate posting during these sort of fightsituations, and It's harder for me to see scum posting during all of that like he did. Kickstart is likely town. He seems very genuine with his thoughts, and his posts, to me, seem townie-oriented. iamp is likely town. If his entire 180 attention-drawing isn't enough, then his activeness during all of this also indicate to me he is town. This is how I feel right now regarding townsfolk. Originally I had SnB down as town, but I feel he is null right now to me, I dunno, have a hard time reading him. Would (maybe?) give a town read on him? Thrawn is null to me. I can't see him being this quiet either as townie or as scum. He really really has to explain himself or be replaced thoug... Crossfire is afk. Now towards the scummers Hapauli. Much quieter this game. Much less present. Disappeared during all of my interaction with BH, only to appear after the claim. I don't buy his cases, especially the one on iamp. Completely ignored my first case on BH, and town Hapa usually comments on everything. In the beginning, put on some light pressure on DP, then unvoted him from some easy explanation only to never mention him again. Not a play I'd see hapa do. debears. Began the game with excessive posting, made a poor sheepy follow-up on iamp. Disappeared and has drastically reduced his posting. Seems pretty damn scummy. DarthPunk Doesn't have much to work with, is likely working on the other game. I find it weird how little attention he's getting from some of the scummier folk. A bad tell, but he's here mostly by elimination. Hopeless1der Not sure of his play yet. It's comparable to that of LVII, but I can see him as scum. Dunno. These are just my thoughts, mainly to get discussion going and for BH to see what he thinks (there's still a chance he's scum, but I'm assuming he is town for now). I haven't decided who I want to lynch yet, these are just my thoughts from my current level of reading. Tomorrow I'll be back probably with more powerful cases. On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: I'm down to lynching hopeless1der. No comment on BH I find this point, mentioned before, to be quite good. He not only didn't mention BH's claim, but he attacked someone for not mentioning it. It sounds very contrived and doesn't seem to have strong town motivation at all. Meta What seals the deal for me is his meta from the last game I played with him, LVII. From the start, his game has been very different. Observe one of his entrance posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=21#402 Note that he is aggressive and makes a case right off the bat against forumite. BAM. Vote. Doesn't give a shit. Is assertive, aggressive. What of this game? Look at his only post that comes close to being significant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#438 Makes a big post, doesn't conclude shit. Seems just like the ordinary "look at me scumhunting". In this game he shows a weaker, less assertive version of him in LVII. He has a bunch of posts going after debears, and he's not going anywhere with it.. He only votes debears when debears is already a viable candidate, has two votes on him. Here is his voting post: Basically votes on debears for not pushing his top scum read. Doesn't add any of the the other arguments he used here. That does not sound like anyone who's scum hunting. He says his vote is OMGUS, and states ONE reason for pursuing debears. He spends a long time focusing on debears but never actually voting. This, of course, much unlike his own play in LVII. Look at how he treats his cases in LVII, and how greatly it contrasts with his play this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=51#1015 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=51#1013 He's using every single argument he had already made, and is being a LOT more insistent and convincing than that. I'm not the best judge of meta, but that is in too great a contrast with his play on this game, in my opinion. Why not debears? I've done some thinking on this and I'm not sure he's scum. Hapa's main argument of not pushing his scumreads are decent, but I've mislynched people on that count before. Judging by his play, and comparing that to his last game as scum, I don't see it being too similar. When he was scum, his posts were much longer. In day one, he spent a lot of time writing out big cases and looked much townier (lol, weird, but true). I can see him sheeping on iamp with that kind of mentality, based on such a weak argument. I think scum debears would rather make his own case on someone and be happy with it. Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. Conclusion I find hopeless' contrast in meta much worse in this game. He's being useless and much less present than in LVII. Read his filter there, read it here, and see if you come to the same conclusion I did. He doesn't look like he's trying to get debears lynched. Especially how much effort he put on in LVII. ##Vote Hopeless1der Not because of who you voted, or even how you explained your vote. Its how you explained why you wouldn't vote the others. Hapa isn't mentioned. It's too conspicuous. I feel very good about lynching you today. In addition, given that you claimed miller, it would have been an appropriate time to mention your choice to change up your meta. Whether or not its true is not the problem, its the fact that it was used as a crutch to try and save yourself. You used your 'intentional meta shift' as a player might claim miller as its getting close to their lynch. Its scummy because you withheld information from town and then used that information to try to manipulate a case made against you. It does matter that you pre-empted Marv's case with this explanation, and I consider marv and BH's meta reads on you to be both accurate and condemning. | ||
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Committing to a day2 bus of Hapa? Why is that a bad thing as scum? One of you walks away with massive town-cred, and there's no guarantee that either of you would prevail. In addition, Hapa hard defended your meta-shift claim. Bussing a teammate is a legitimate strategy. You 'gave away' the second scumbuddy during the night, after he failed to produce anything useful. You didn't give away shit. If you are trying to imply that Hapa was #1 and BH was #2, then fuck you harder. If you are saying you gave up Cross, which kind of makes sense, I counter with Cross gave himself up. You just acknowledged it and bought into the cred earned by flipping him as a goon. | ||
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On November 15 2012 10:48 Dandel Ion wrote: votecount: DarthPunk (6): thrawn2112, Hapahauli, Z-BosoN, Kickstart Z-BosoN (6): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99, Blazinghand, strongandbig debears (1): Hopeless1der Hopeless (1): debears Not voting: iamperfection Currently, DarthPunk is set to be lynched! Full version (disregarded): + Show Spoiler + debears (2): DarthPunk (7): Hopeless1der (0): Z-BosoN (4): Hapahauli (0): Blazinghand (0): iamperfection (0): thrawn2112 (0): strongandbig (0): Clarity_nl (0): marvellosity (0): Crossfire99 (0): Not voting (0): I realize this isn't the point, but count the actual number of votes. Also, "12 minutes'. It doesn't matter, you were more likely to get lynched than Hapa was. This bullshit about not believing you were going to die is ridiculous. | ||
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On November 18 2012 07:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, yea, makes a lot of sense. I knew I was getting lynched, and said "in the godly situation I get lynched". Because I, a scum mastermind, realized that this would help me in the future. Sigh... first, you meant 'ungodly' and second, that was either you being facetious or sarcastic, from my point of view. On November 18 2012 06:55 Z-BosoN wrote: I already showed signs of suspicion form hapa. You also showed signs of suspicion against me, debears and DarthPunk, but when the time came for you to vote (for me), Hapa was the only one who didn't receive a cursory glance into why you no longer felt he was worth looking at. | ||
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On November 18 2012 08:59 Z-BosoN wrote: Anyone else? Hopeless? Got all 1 hour to convince you narrow-minded buffoons that I am actually a miller and that my explanation for my play is much more probable than anything you conjecturers have been spewing. beep beep town beep beep Go do something useful, you're dieing as far as I'm concerned. | ||
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On November 19 2012 03:26 Clarity_nl wrote: Like I said. They want the cop dead ASAP. You are no threat since you'll just get perma roleblocked. The order does matter. I'd be shocked if the scum shoots you or hopeless. This is just flat out wrong. It doesn't make him scum, but with BH's case and the general read I got following Day 1, I'm willing to lynch clarity. DP - Town iamp - Probably Town BH - probably town SnB- Still remarkably useless, aside from pushing BH like a motherfucker and building on djodref's setup spec's. He should be active enough to resolve this, if he's town. Potential lynch that probably won't happen because he'll stop sucking bag (hopefully). djodref - setup speculation extraordinaire. Null. debears - Willing to lynch Kickstart - Nubby with a lack of contribution and an insistence that 'nothing has changed' for various things in the thread. Just absolutely stifling for discussion. Unsure how scummy this makes him if he feels that he's legitimately already said everything that needs to be said. Willing to Lynch. | ||
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On November 12 2012 16:14 debears wrote: /in itsa me, Mario! Maybe not... | ||
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May as well. ##Vote: Strongandbig | ||
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BH telling the truth: VDMCCTT V - Me D - BH M - Z-Bo CC - debears TT - Scum Roleblocker is all that is left (Goon and GF are dead). BH lying: VMCCTTT V - Me M - Z-Bo CC - debears TTT - No Godfather in this setup, therefore not applicable. In this way, BH is confirmed town unless someone wants to claim something. I'm not even sure if I agreed in-thread with BH about the blues making that decision, but unless someone can point out the flaw in my logic, a blue-claim wins the game as we have 2 mislynches and the claim means someone is lying between Me, BH and the claimer If there is no claim, we can safely assume that BH and I are confirmed town, and will be promptly shot and the closest opportunity. | ||
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On November 19 2012 11:43 Djodref wrote: Aww shit ! GG debears... I guessed he was cop, I had found his crumb in his filter when I was checking it at iamp demand. He thinks he had checked Hopeless... So I've tried to look suspicious of him to avoid him being killed. Still I would have preferred him to claim. That's not good for us Where's the crumb for the check on me? | ||
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0T is a possibility, I missed it in my machinations. Either a mason-pair or a second cop are the only options though. 1T is technically possible as well, but lack of NK's suggests otherwise so I didn't consider it. | ||
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On November 19 2012 12:22 iamperfection wrote: well ill help you out 0 T is not possible Actually statistically impossible or just really unlikely? Can you explain how it cant be? | ||
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White on rice it is. | ||
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On November 19 2012 12:59 Djodref wrote: Was that sarcasm ? My plan was quite good but I didn't take into account the Cop (I thought the cop was you when Z-Bo referred to the Cop for the first time, I thought that you had checked thrawn or BH N1) would not bring us confirmed townies with him. I'm quite impressed by this snipe from the mafia player and I didn't see it coming. But things should be easier now. Iamp, DP, Clarity, Kickstart, S&B The last scum is hiding among these players if I'm right about the setup. We have 3 shots to find him. Easy enough imo  My current choices, as highlighted. SnB first it would seem. To bed for realzies this time | ||
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Remaining Players are assumed to be Mushroom Citizens or the final scum, Kamek the Mafia Roleblocker
Strongandbig, if you can't tell us who the scum of that list is, can you provide town reads instead on as many players as you can? Actually, everyone should be doing that, with the understanding that reads change. BH and I are next in line, probably in that order due to being confirmed town and BH being a known strong town player. In the event that SnB is not scum, we have one mislynch Day 4 until a MYLO Day 5 (3v1). Which players do we want alive if it gets to that point? On November 15 2012 11:00 Dandel Ion wrote: Final Votecount: DarthPunk (1): thrawn2112 Z-BosoN (5): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, Crossfire99, strongandbig, Hapahauli debears (1): Hopeless1der Hapahauli (6): Z-BosoN, Blazinghand, debears, iamperfection, Kickstart, DarthPunk Hapahauli has been lynched! Full version (disregarded): + Show Spoiler + debears (2): DarthPunk (7): Hopeless1der (0): Z-BosoN (4): Hapahauli (0): Blazinghand (0): iamperfection (0): thrawn2112 (0): strongandbig (0): Clarity_nl (0): marvellosity (0): Crossfire99 (0): Not voting (0): Day 1 vote-count for reference | ||
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On November 20 2012 04:09 Blazinghand wrote: From the way he's playing, though, I'm pretty sure this last scum player is a moron. Like, judging from his nks and choice of RBs, he lacks even a rudimentary understanding of the game and has made several mistakes. Honestly at this point he should just leave mafia and never come back. I guess his mother dropped him on his head a lot as a child, because she couldn't bear to look at his nasty-ass face. Harsh | ||
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2.DarthPunk 3.Kickstart 3.Strongandbig 4.djodref 5.Clarity_nl ##Unvote: Strongandbig ##Vote: Clarity_nl I want iamperfection, DP and kickstart to live to LYLO/MYLO. I read SnB as less scummy than djo and clarity. I think clarity is our last scum. If the scum is within the three I want to live, well then I fucked up large. Otherwise, scum will die at some point from here to end-game. | ||
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On November 21 2012 07:51 Clarity_nl wrote: Hopeless you explain that you want the towniest players to survive to lylo, so you listed the people from most towny to least, and I am at the bottom. That is why you voted for me, right? Could you please explain what convinced you of this? That is why I voted for you. I already had townreads on DP and iamperfection. I'd have to check to be sure, but I think all of the non-confirmed gave Kickstart a town read, so I went with that. That left SnB, djodref and you Clarity. Djodref's case on DP looks like he wants scum and he thinks he's found it. I believe that he believes his case. I get a similar feeling from SnB regarding both his defense and his case against you. I don't get that feeling from your case against SnB, and that could very well be my own stupid confirmation bias. Be that as it may, I'd like to lynch you first out of my potential scum pool. | ||
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On November 21 2012 08:21 strongandbig wrote: yeah so if you guys want to lynch me so i can go play chrono trigger, i won't mind clarity is the scum tho You'll play both games and you'll like it. | ||
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I wholeheartedly would vouch for iamperfection being town this game. But he is the only player 'eligible' for lynch that I am that confident in. I'm going to re-read all of day1 in as much context as I can before the deadline and hopefully have some concrete reads on who is still alive. | ||
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On November 22 2012 00:05 strongandbig wrote: please reread my two defense posts before you make up your mind based only on day 1. I've admitted my day 1 was pretty bad but I don't think that alone should determine your read on me at this point. I'm still going to consider each players filter, but I have knowledge of 9/13 players alignments and day1 was a massive shitshow of activity. It just seemed like a good way to get things done. | ||
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On November 22 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote: I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ? I recommend you to go read this page : Keirathi PUBLIC discussion about his setup BH was 100% confirmed ! This, with the addition that SnB and djo wouldn't have stopped until you were convinced. | ||
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On November 22 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote: Right, well I did not access that information. So I guess my fears were unwarranted. HOWEVER that does not mean I was not worried and at the time I asked for a DT check I had the same thoughts and he was NOT confirmed. I know Djo will push this being scummy. But is it really? I don't think the fact that you didn't go looking for Keir's setup generator is scummy. At the time that iamperfection quoted you, your suspicions were completely justified. | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:18 marvellosity wrote: There's no analysis, town got lucky as well as played well to lynch hapa day 1, vig shot the obvscum, then town derped a bit and tried to throw it away but had such a lead they couldn't. I should have shot BH like you said I should, then we'd have had a real game to analyze, right? | ||
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On November 23 2012 02:32 Keirathi wrote: It was ~100 pages by the end of night one. Yeah but how much of it was BH and marv ripping each other new ones? | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:18 Clarity_nl wrote: it's because I was spamming and being useless, obviously. It was more that you could have been more useful to me. You never seemed to get anywhere with your questioning playstyle. You also don't PUSH your reads, and I found that scummy. Yes, your reads were known, but I didn't feel like you were really trying to convince anyone you were right, you were just going through the motions of making a case. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:21 Z-BosoN wrote: But anyways, well played :D Hopeless gains the LVP trophy here. Confirmed town, blindly sheeping his vote on me, and just chilling without trying to do shit this late stage of game. Seriously, what bad play. Everyone else was trying to figure shit out. Gah I really liked this town day one though, insane activity made it tough for scum to hide in. All three scum members were completely discernable from after day one (with the exception of SnB imo... took me a while to get a townread from him), which is something that I've never seen happen before. We got a bit (a fucking lot) lucky on hapa's lynch, but this was one hell of a day 1for town, and I'm impressed. Will comment more later. GG! A trophy's a trophy I guess... | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:25 Z-BosoN wrote: Seriously though, why did you down your game so much after day one? I know you as a capable player, especially from LVII... I honestly don't know why I stop putting things into the thread. I'm always thinking about and lurking the game. A combination of BH was alive and I bought into DP's WIFOM bomb theory, and things just went downhill from there. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:38 Clarity_nl wrote: I mentioned this during the game too and it got shot down as "calling people bad", but you truly were the only confirmed town, so you were in a unique position to lead town to victory... TT Your shot on cross was still really good though. Marv pointed out the lack of caring, so I skimmed crosses game history and took the shot. Also more to do with watching his play in Whose Line and thinking his tunneling of BH made no sense, despite BH having the most ridiculous D1 claim I've ever played through. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:47 Keirathi wrote: Oh yea, so I wanted to comment on this to DP since I told him I would: Z-BosoN should have never been lynched. That was such lazy thinking by everyone in the town. So, the godfather is lynched day 1. Then, during the night, marv is screaming for the vig to shoot BH (the claimed JK). If ZB was scum, he would know that BH was in fact town, and probably have deduced that BH wasn't lying about the JK claim, and would let the BH vig go through. Instead, ZB comes into the thread saying "No no no no. Don't shoot BH, shoot [my other partner] Crossfire!" Scum just doesn't do that. Period, end of story. Maybe scum ZB would have bussed him the next day, but he would 100% want the vig to waste a shot on a townie rather than his teammate. I fully considered this and STILL thought the WIFOM bomb theory made sense. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:55 Keirathi wrote: Well, you had already sent in the shot on Crossfire even before he said it, so props to you. But, I still think it was a terrible lynch, and by far the worst wagon of the game. Even if we didn't have a vig and we ended up lynching crossfire, I legitimately thought Z-bo was on pace to bus both his teammates before Day 2 started when I was content to sit back and watch him get lynched. | ||
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I hope you find it in your heart to forgive me. | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:08 Z-BosoN wrote: But you came dangerously dangerously close to that. Djo could actually have pulled it off. I know I'm not a shining beacon of confidence, but I assure you, djo wasn't winning this game. | ||
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On November 23 2012 08:22 Blazinghand wrote: Also I was just personally expressing distaste for DP, not that he should be lynched. And I did say Djoref was scummier. And he did concede as a result. Yeah but it sounded like you were torn between the two. It made me second guess my own reads when I decided DP couldnt be scum | ||
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You get a meta town read on someone every game, just like people read you as town every game! | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On November 23 2012 09:55 Clarity_nl wrote: I begged Keir to shut you guys up when it came to setup speculation, btw. Posted it in chrono by mistake, fml. Is that why he told us his setup generator was public?? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
![[image loading]](http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/5909418_460s_v1.jpg) | ||
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