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Ah, DP is probably trying to sound smart and being all conspiracy-theory.
It's very very VERY difficult for scum on my wagon or DP's to accept unvoting and voting hapa, last three minutes, without a fucking case. BH looks scummy as fuck from his play alone, but his actions are completely on the opposite side. I was intent on lynching him earlier but now I'm not so sure.
Don't be all stupid and shit. Scum is almost guaranteedly on my wagon. Search for them thinking on this alone.
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Guys, no one is confirmed anything. The odds are excruciatingly high that scum is on my wagon though. Fucking think. Paint yourselves as scum viewing a retarded wagon without a case on one of your teammates.
Bussing usually comes when there is a good case against someone and the risk of looking bad.
May there be scum on hapa's wagon? Yea. Both of them on his wagon? I really fucking doubt it.
Odds are there is at least one scum on my wagon. Let's think on that, shall we?
Anyways, lovely end of day, going to go sleep. See you guys tomorrow.
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On November 15 2012 20:26 marvellosity wrote:
I'm not so sure. He shouldn't have preached at me though, like I'm not allowed to get reads wrong? Dunno. He's up in the air until that like 10 pages around lynch time get re-read laters.
I was extremely pissed I was getting lynched due to something I believe I'd explained quite well, in my view, and yet I was going to get killed over other people who had much better cases on them just because you said so, telling people to sheep you and that's about it. Those same people probably didnt read a thing I wrote or said, and just put their vote on me because ... yea.
I thought hapa was scum, but since it was mostly gut feeling, I didn't think I'd be able to lynch him day one. I've indicated this in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=36#714
Here's what I make of the people on hapa's wagon using the logic that they had suspicions on hapa and didn't like the votes on me. Gonna just link the posts for clarity.
Debears is most likely town. The only reason he is scum is that he and hapa purposefully decided to smash at each other in day one. I'm not sure what to make of hapa's over-insistence that debears is scum, but maybe that's just him mimicking his town tunnel vision.
Kickstart's vote also makes a lot of sense from a townie perspective.
Here he shows he wants to lynch hapa..
Here he shows he doesn't like a lynch on me.
These two I'd consider town from last nights events.
Hopeless1der is someone who I keep changing my mind about. It seems awfully safe and convenient to keep his vote on debears. Basically says:
On November 15 2012 10:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:55 Clarity_nl wrote:
We're not killing debears. We're killing either zbo or you, so you better vote zbo. Unless you're superawesometown who sacrifices himself for the sake of town. I'd buy that. fuck that, debears is still an option. Im not voting Zbo unless it saves me
So I could totally see scum doing this.
Marv, you said you had a town read on him, do you still think this?
There is one thing I'd like to know from DarthPunk though. He said this right before he died:
On November 15 2012 10:34 DarthPunk wrote:
I am flipping town.
Lynch Z-Bo and clarity.
BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely.
Marv is 100% town
Debears is my second strongest town read. You got this debears. <3
Perfection town.
Crossfire town
S&B town
Hopeless null
Everyone I missed. Null and forgettable apparently. Never been mis-lynched before. I blew chunks this game
GO town!!! <#
This post clearly says that he thinks me and clarity are actually scum, and that BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely.
Then he makes these two following posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote
##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. WIFOM
and finally:
On November 15 2012 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:
##Unvote
##vote: HAPA
So, DarthPunk, I'd like you to explain your thought process behind this. Why did you change your mind regarding me and hapa?
Don't tell me just this:
On November 15 2012 10:53 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote:##UnvoteYeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl Can we please lynch this guy? Please? ##Vote Debears Scum. YOu just tried to form a band wagon on me for this very thing you are doing right now. You are fucking derailing the fucking lynch and there is no way in hell debears is going to be lynched. Also town hapa would never do this so iam now talking to Scum hapa whom I dislike.
Sufficed. Hopeless is also someone who "derailed" the lynch according to this post of yours. Do you find him to be scum? Be more clear here. Don't come at me with your pissed off act and answer as best you can, if you are town.
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iamperfection is also someone on hapa's train I can't make much sense of. In GSL, he showed that he has no problem bussing. Did so with marv getting lynched on day two quite fast. Now let's take a look at his filter:
He's basically been sheeping marv like mad this game:
On November 15 2012 10:11 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:10 marvellosity wrote:
why is he making that post instead of bothering to read the thread, where BH is clearly not a possibility?
It's just nonsense. exactly its so terrible.
On November 15 2012 10:45 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:45 marvellosity wrote:
yeah this is gonna be a mislynch i agree ## Unvote
On November 15 2012 10:49 iamperfection wrote:
## Vote z-boson
in marv i trust
When suddenly, out of nowhere, he says:
On November 15 2012 10:54 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:53 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 10:53 debears wrote:
Save Hapa for d2 BH yeah basically this well i actually wouldnt mind doing it now this is not town hapa. going herp derp scumslip scumslip
I'd like to know what herp derp "scumslips" he's referring to.
When going through his filter, the only mention of scumslip I found is this:
On November 15 2012 10:30 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:Holy scumslip DP iamp - good stuff OK. I was not suggesting we switch on to clarity. What I was doing is making a case I was convinced of as I promised. Obviously we are not going to lynch him. Did you see a vote? ##unvote##Vote DarthPunk ya i dont like that hapa i wouldn't call it a scum slip its a more of being stupid slip.
Which to me doesn't look much like a scumslip (or stupid-slip)
So I would also like him to clarify why he suddenly decided that he was going to not sheep marv and go for hapa.
Also, this is open to interpretation, but his exchange with hapa, regarding my explanation, makes it seem like he's more suspicious of me than of hapa
On November 15 2012 09:58 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:50 Hapahauli wrote:http://postimage.org/image/9ilt0jqpt/Hapa = Melvin Z-Bo = Paulo The above is a small snip of a skype convo we had a few weeks back. I obviously don't want to screenshot the whole thing (it goes on a while), but this should get the gist of it - Z-Bo really wanted to play a less-active style of play and was running it by me (I advised against it, but he was unconvinced throughout). This makes me think that this could be town Z-Bo. I know what Ver's guide says about the random 1-liners and what not but I really just disagree with it in this specific case. I think it's just a product of him wanting to post less. He could be scum, but at the end of the day, debears is much scummier to me. that all from the skype conversation? He doesn't really say much about changing his style fundamentally there just that he is going to post less and he failed to do so.
Especially when earlier on he agreed with the case on debears with hapa:
On November 14 2012 10:19 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 10:13 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote:
i'm starting to ponder debears also Looking at debears, there's not much to say other than there's not much substance in his 4-page filter. Lots of short, 1/2 line posts with banter. He jumps on Hopeless really quickly, who's one of the easier targets in the game. He's then pretty quick to jump on iamperfection, and has been pushing that "read" since. As previously stated, his "vote post" looks like an overkill-case. But the thing that really sticks out to me is that he's been tunneling iamperfection for the last few hours yet still has his vote on Hopeless. He's using a lot of strong language against iamperfection (much stronger than against hopeless), and from his filter it looks like iamperfection is his top scumread. At this point he's much more content to push the read on iamperfection than his one on Hopeless, and I see no townie reason why his vote isn't where his mouth is. ##Unvote##Vote debears i might be able to get behind this but i will wait for him to respond. Looking at it your absolutely right because i had to double check i could have sworn his vote was on me but it in fact isn't. He did use strong language but didnt put the vote out there and was curios to see what others thought (Testing the waters maybe?) however i will wait for him to respond.
So, iamperfection, would like you, as well, to explain your thoughts, and be more clear on what you are referring to when you said "herp derp scumslip scumslip" and why you chose hapa over me.
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Blazinghand also needs to explain himself, of course, his voting pattern at lynch time was indubitably the worst of them all. Said "everything would make sense" after the flip, said I was gonna flip scum, said then BAM, let's form a wagon on Hapahauli. I mean, this doesn't sound like someone unsatisfied with their vote:
On November 15 2012 10:48 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 10:46 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
._. curse you DP for casting doubt into my heart. I'll just shoot you tonight with all my vigi bullets then
##unvote
##vote ZB ...........................................wat it'll all make sense after the flip! no explain fucking now ZB... will flip scum.
Going to move towards the people on my wagon now.
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Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts:
On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote:
I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him.
I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though.
Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy.
Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind.
Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!"
Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here:
On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote:
Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now. I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this. Anyway, I like this case by marv. + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote:@goodkarmaWell that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote:Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat:You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote:On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote:On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote:
@YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now. I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum. You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions. I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read  ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something. Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess. I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: (...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry
SolarSail (0): YourHarry
thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat
goodkarma (0): YourHarry
Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson
Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you.
Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote:Regarding YourHarry:Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: - First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. - YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. - The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. - On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched!+ Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] +
Final Vote Count:
Thrawn2112 (5): DarthPunk, Golbat, Solarsail, goodkarma, YourHarry, Z-BosoN, Obvious.660, Solarsail, YourHarry
Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, thrawn2112, Solarsail
YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695
goodkarma (0): Obvious.660
Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry
YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read.
##Unvote
##Vote: YourHarry
I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated.
Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote:On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote:
Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline:
Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat
Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar
GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious
Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out.
Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier.
Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": (...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: (...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out  Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist".
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson. ##Vote Z-boson
That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says.
On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote:
Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter.
So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow.
thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back.
Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless.
marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL.
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tl;dr:
I want to hear explanations from DarthPunk , iamperfection, and Blazinghand regarding their decisions in their vote choices, specifically to the points I addressed earlier.
I also want to suggest we lynch either Crossfire or thrawn. Some people said "fuck you" when I mentioned thrawn, but to that I say to just go look at the rest of his townie games, and note the clear contrast in difference.
Let me know what you guys think.
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On November 16 2012 03:38 Clarity_nl wrote:
I said fuck you because it was so last minute.
And what sayeth you know?
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On November 16 2012 06:28 DarthPunk wrote:
OK just got up. Hapa was super obvious scum at the end. there was no way to reconcile hapa's behaviour with his town play. While I might be highly suspicious of ZB I was sure of Hapa at that point.
I don't know if ZB is trying to imply that somehow I was being scummy by changing my reads when presented with new information. But that's what I did. I was positive I was going to get lynched and wanted to get my positions as soon to be confirmed town across.
For the record I am pretty sure ZB is scum.
He WIFOM bombed at the end, and they read as such rather than genuine attempts at catching scum.
Hapa tried to derail the ZB lynch and outed himself in the process.
This is on top of the case by marv.
When the lynch was going down yesterday I became highly suspicious of ZB/BH and hapa.
I'm not trying to imply anything. I want to certify my read on you. Why was Hapahauli super-obvious scum at the end? What made him change your mind?
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On November 16 2012 06:47 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 06:37 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 16 2012 06:28 DarthPunk wrote:
OK just got up. Hapa was super obvious scum at the end. there was no way to reconcile hapa's behaviour with his town play. While I might be highly suspicious of ZB I was sure of Hapa at that point.
I don't know if ZB is trying to imply that somehow I was being scummy by changing my reads when presented with new information. But that's what I did. I was positive I was going to get lynched and wanted to get my positions as soon to be confirmed town across.
For the record I am pretty sure ZB is scum.
He WIFOM bombed at the end, and they read as such rather than genuine attempts at catching scum.
Hapa tried to derail the ZB lynch and outed himself in the process.
This is on top of the case by marv.
When the lynch was going down yesterday I became highly suspicious of ZB/BH and hapa. I'm not trying to imply anything. I want to certify my read on you. Why was Hapahauli super-obvious scum at the end? What made him change your mind? I didn't change my mind. I was already suspicious of hapa. Read my death posts. Then he tried to derail the lynch far too late after trying to lynch me for making a case that wasn't on a leading candidate. He wanted to Vote for DEBEARS of all people when there was no way he was getting lynched. There was no way town Hapa would play that way.
Yes, and Hopeless wanted to do the same thing. As a matter of fact, he did. Does that make you suspicious of him also?
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I´ve been a bit busy today, and will be so tomorrow as well. I´m down with a SnB lynch right now. Tomorrow I´m going to check thrawn´s filter (djodref can´t really do much at this point...) and see if I still think so, when I find time.
Anyways, checking BH is the stupidest shit you can do, whoever said that above. Odds that he is scum are really low right now. Like I said, just lynch the people on my wagon and youll do just fine. (was right about one of them already. Debears, update the scoreboard will you )
Also, to those of you who think I´m scum, you are out of your fucking mind. That´s about it.
##Vote SnB
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Djodref, I want to hear your every thought.
First off, why are you voting bh? I´m not sure about your reasoning. Do you agree with my post on the likelihood of scum being on my wagon? What do you make of that assessment?
Also, besides blazinghand, who else would you say is scum, and why?
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Djodref can~t really do much at this point = dealing with thrawns filter, in cas ehtat wasn´t clear
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DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting.
1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim.
2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that.
3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today.
4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies.
5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.
Just so I'd come out looking good.
All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta.
And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway.
Sniped post:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting. So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so. /rant Anyways, bring it on marv you slut.
Reread please: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:37 Z-BosoN wrote:Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty. Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum? Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration). So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it. Yep. Z-BosoN = townie.
It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum?
0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it.
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I'm very sleepy right now. I'm not satisfied yet with a S&B lynch. My vote on him is mostly due to how he's played thsi game. Tomorrow I'm going to do some rereading on clarity, thrawn and S&B and establish my read. I encourage town to do the same.
Night
PS: it was that goodkarma sob that caught me
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All righty had a tough day.
Read SnB's filter, and I don't think he's a good lynch today. Couple of reasons, mostly based on his interaction with hapahauli.
This post:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 03:56 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote:Catching up on my lunch break.
Regarding SnB##UnvoteAfter sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB. (FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.)
On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote:Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Clarity
Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO. You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike?
You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1? No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game. Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who. I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet. The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time. I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not. Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this.
Regarding the Z-Boson CaseI really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy. ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game. Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him.
Regarding iamperfectionHis sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post. I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim: I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim: On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial. It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game. ##Vote iamperfection this is much more like what i expect out of hapahauli, i guess it just took a little while for him to get into character. that said his case is pretty bad for reasons i explained above
Seems genuine to me. I feel like this is a genuine exchange between hapa and SnB. Main point is hapa's read on SnB:
After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB.
And SnB's response is "that's the hapa I'm accustomed to" .
Also, another post from his filter:
On November 14 2012 22:39 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:21 Hapahauli wrote:
Easy on the claim stuff guys - it's pointless to argue about something that already happened unless you actually think BH's claim is scummy - and it's too suicidal to be scummy IMO. He could be scum, but it's pretty unlikely.
BH - can I get your thoughts on Debears? lol hapa this post almost persuaded me to vote for BH
Really, in my experience, scum don't openly base themselves off of other scum's cases like that.
He also gave Hapa a fuckin town read:
On November 15 2012 08:30 strongandbig wrote:
oh also i skimmed through hopelesses filter
the first half of it is mega terrible
like, there's a bunch of unimportant one-liners and then like his only big posts until he starts getting accused are about the "who knew when whether crossfire was a smurf" thing, which just doesn't matter so hard it hurts
but then later i like hopeless's responses quite a bit more
but then i actually read his list post and it contains gems like
"Hapa - town, largely due to connections between him and debears, and between him and kickstart. This read has severely influenced my current scumreads. "
town b/c he attacked your scumread, debears was attacked by your townread therefore he's scum
lolwut
"BH is trolly as fuck, but unlynchable today due to an uncountered JK claim. I haven't read into his meta, because there is no chance to push his lynch, even if I can make a convincing case. Despite this, I think the trolling is scummy, and I'll need to read the threads he's referenced during the night (assuming I'm not lynched)."
he claimed so he's gonna be hard to lynch today so why bother thinking about him
lolwut
"Clarity - Town. He seems to misread the thread or just confuse people alot. I feel that type of repeating 'mistake' is less likely to happen as scum."
yeah confusing people totally isn't in a scum's interest
lolwut
"Z-Bo - Town. I liked his pursuit of his case against BH and thought he brought up some legitimate points. Apparently they were so good BH had to claim to escape. "
lolwut
no other comments just lolwut
oh actually yes other comments - zboson is town because bh responded stupidly to his case?
"Strongandbig - Null-Town. Strange vt claim feels townslippy. However, Kenpachi rule shenanigans and insists on lynching BH for a while, despite blueclaim. Too strong of a scum motive to just let that slide, but I also think BH is scummy, so this read flips to Null-Scum if BH is in fact JK."
lolwut - is this, like, a reverse connection theory? like, if bh is telling the truth then I must be scum? i really don't think that makes sense
yeah so now i'm suddenly torn between wanting to test the kenpachi rule and hopeless's filter actually being terrible
I guess if I really really had to I might vote hopeless to push that past a darthpunk lynch, because the reasons for lynching darthpunk are actually the worst.
This post here:
On November 14 2012 22:45 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:22 marvellosity wrote:
my rage is perfectly coherent.
what's even more infuriating is that you don't understand why you are bad.
any sensible townie would argue his way out of his lynch (3 votes, cmon) and only if necessary, a few hours from deadline, claim if he could absolutely not avoid getting lynched.
Jailkeeper is a very strong role and now you've made it so it cannot protect anybody, plus a confirmed bluesnipe on you, if you are town. Which I'm not even convinced of yet, I just can't bring myself to lynch the claim day 1. Marv come the fuck on. blazinghand obviously knows this. He had such a good time trolling keirathi in Whose Line before that game's premature end, that he wants to keep it up now. I will give 2:1 hat-eating odds that blazinghand's claim is fake. idk whether that makes him scum or town, but I'm inclined to think scum.
Also sounds like "confused townie" rather than someone who fakes confusion.
I also think that a scum SnB wouldn't play the "I don't give a fuck" routine, and his reaction to pressure right here is much much different than in LVII
tl;dr
His recent showing of his play is really really town-indicative, and he's openly drawing too many connections to a confirmed scum - hapahauli. I am not comfortable with an SnB lynch. Will pursue other reads, mainly thrawn (djo) and clarity.
Let me know what you guys think.
##Unvote
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On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB.
Seriously, I've about had it with these meta reads. Fuck off. Read this:
On November 16 2012 13:47 Z-BosoN wrote:DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting. 1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim. 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. 5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Just so I'd come out looking good. All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta. And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway. Sniped post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting. So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so. /rant Anyways, bring it on marv you slut. Reread please: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:37 Z-BosoN wrote:Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty. Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum? Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration). So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it. Yep. Z-BosoN = townie. It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum? 0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it.
If you really think I'm scum make a fucking case that explains why I would bus my fucking teammate in a death post and say my other teammate was the best lynch. Stop fucking saying meta meta meta and starting saying fucking scum-motivation and town-motivation. Goddamn, enough conspiracy theory and start using occams razor.
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I said I was going to be busy today...
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On November 17 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB. I agree. He felt off all game. And his Death post was a blatant WIFOM bomb if I have ever seen one. ##Vote: Z - Boson
How is it a WIFOm bomb you retard? Did you think i'd assume you guys would jump off of me and go towards hapahauli with five fucking minutes left to lynch-time??? What makes more sense?? The amount of stupidity is way too fucking high.
WHY WOULD I BUS MY TEAMMATE, HAPA AT THAT, WITH 5 MINUTES LEFT TO GO AND LIKE 8 VOTES ON ME??? WHY NOT TELL TOWN TO LYNCH SOMEONE ELSE??
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15505
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EPT
