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On November 05 2012 15:02 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:
To stop any shenannies - every player in the game knows the VT role PM. Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 05 2012 08:56 debears wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? Why would you think that doesn't prove anything. I didn't know everyone got the VT role pm? This sounds like you knew that everyone did I didn't want to assume things. I didn't know that either but I had considered it much earlier. I noticed the OP is different from my PM role. I don't like Clarity early reaction to Cheese claim. Among Rad, debears and Clarity, he is the only one to doubt Cheese's claim before Marv post. I think that Clarity is mafia and had the information beforehand (the information that the VT role PM was dispatched to everybody).
Djo, he explained himself pretty clearly, and what he said is true.
On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT?
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On November 05 2012 15:12 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 14:41 debears wrote:
@Rad and Djo
What do you think of the mini case I recently made on Sylver for not voting his top scumread? @ debearsYou have a point but I don't think that it is that relevant. Sylver tried to vote you but there was obviously no momentum to get you lynched today. He was then convinced that Cheese and you was the scumteam and, at that moment, Cheese could be lynched. I think you were his primary target but he went for his secondary target instead because he couldn't get you lynched. I kind of did the same thing. I wanted a Clarity lynch and it almost happened but then Alsn made his case, Cheese claimed and said so this on top of my previous suspicion on Cheese made me think that Clarity and Cheese was the scumteam. I've made the stupidest mistake ever, the association case without flip information. After that, there was no more momentum for a Clarity lynch so I also went for my secondary target. I would like your input on two points - What do you think of Alsn case on Cheese ?
- What do you think of Clarity reaction to Cheese claim ?
If your top scum read has a chance to be lynched, you jump all over that bandwagon ASAP. Jumping off cheese and onto debears either gets debears lynched or cheese lynched. Staying on cheese gets cheese lynched 100%. Jumping to debears at least gives debears a chance to be lynched. If debears is your top scum read, and you're town, you should jump on him in that scenario.
Concerning alsn's case on cheese, I'll look into it tomorrow.
Concerning clarity's reaction, I think it was completely fine and reasonable. Asking what his motivation was is the proper move, and voting him after he gave a purely WIFOM argument is also a good move.
Ok, going to go relax for a few and watch some shows before bed. Might jump on and post more if I see activity, might not. Be on tomorrow though of course.
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On November 05 2012 15:14 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 15:10 Rad wrote:On November 05 2012 15:02 Djodref wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? On November 05 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:
To stop any shenannies - every player in the game knows the VT role PM. On November 05 2012 08:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 05 2012 08:56 debears wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? Why would you think that doesn't prove anything. I didn't know everyone got the VT role pm? This sounds like you knew that everyone did I didn't want to assume things. I didn't know that either but I had considered it much earlier. I noticed the OP is different from my PM role. I don't like Clarity early reaction to Cheese claim. Among Rad, debears and Clarity, he is the only one to doubt Cheese's claim before Marv post. I think that Clarity is mafia and had the information beforehand (the information that the VT role PM was dispatched to everybody). Djo, he explained himself pretty clearly, and what he said is true. On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? @ RadDid you imagine one single instant that marv has sent the VT role flavor also to the mafia members ? I didn't, Cheese didn't and debears didn't. So why would have Clarity such doubts ?
What if clarity PM'd the host asking about this before the cheese incident? What if he just realized that you can't read into the flavor too much because, well, it's true, you can't read into the flavor too much? Why must "he's scum!" be the answer? Null read to me.
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On November 05 2012 15:14 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 15:10 Rad wrote:On November 05 2012 15:02 Djodref wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? On November 05 2012 08:45 marvellosity wrote:
To stop any shenannies - every player in the game knows the VT role PM. On November 05 2012 08:58 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 05 2012 08:56 debears wrote:On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? Why would you think that doesn't prove anything. I didn't know everyone got the VT role pm? This sounds like you knew that everyone did I didn't want to assume things. I didn't know that either but I had considered it much earlier. I noticed the OP is different from my PM role. I don't like Clarity early reaction to Cheese claim. Among Rad, debears and Clarity, he is the only one to doubt Cheese's claim before Marv post. I think that Clarity is mafia and had the information beforehand (the information that the VT role PM was dispatched to everybody). Djo, he explained himself pretty clearly, and what he said is true. On November 05 2012 08:32 Clarity_nl wrote:
I can do that too. I don't wanna pay for no porn man. I don't think that saying that proves anything, can't make an assumption based on the host's behavior. Cheese why did you claim VT? @ RadDid you imagine one single instant that marv has sent the VT role flavor also to the mafia members ? I didn't, Cheese didn't and debears didn't. So why would have Clarity such doubts ?
Also, djo, just realized your question here could be considered blue hunting. If I DID realize it before cheese's argument, that suggests I'm scum or blue, right? Since a VT couldn't possibly realize this, according to you? Just wanted to point that out.
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On November 05 2012 15:30 da0ud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 08:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Go to the OP. Click under Vanilla Townie. Read the end of that vote post. Realize. Can someone explain me what he meant here ?
Mr. Cheesecake, being a VT, got a post that explains that he's a Regular Fapper (VT). He noticed that the OP did not have this information in the Vanilla Townie spoiler. He then assumed that no one else but VTs had this information. In order to somehow get all other VTs on the same lines (go VT power I guess), he tried to throw that info out as a sort of town tell that only VTs would pick up. Unfortunately, he didn't realize that every single person in the game got the information that VTs are Regular Fappers.
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On November 05 2012 15:51 Djodref wrote:It's not that he didn't realize it, it's that he didn't know it. And it is not natural to think that the flavor for the VT role PM has been given to everybody, especially for a newbie like Clarity. This on top of the precedent cases against him. He is most certainly scum ! @ RadDid you see how he avoided to discuss with me after this post + Show Spoiler +On November 04 2012 17:29 Djodref wrote:
Wouldn't you mind to discuss what you have against me right now ?
I'm going to have to sleep before the deadline and I don't want to have to defend your case against me while waking up and catching the thread. Plus it's going to be likely that I need to decide my vote at this time so I would prefer to focus on analysis rather than defense at that time.
I find it odd that you don't want to go after Cheese as well. He should be looking quite scummy in your eyes right now because he didn't answer your question. Also, if I want to sum up his contribution so far, he is just tunneling me after an OMGUSy FoS on me. on page 31 ? I cannot believe that you don't see this as a big scumtell. Please note that I didn't request him to post his case, I just wanted us to discuss as we had both the time to do it. If we have a jailer, I would like him to block Clarity. If we have a cop, I would like him to invest someone esle (because of framer). If we have a medic, I wouldn't mind protection for the night.
Your consistency is terrible.
On November 05 2012 11:03 Djodref wrote:
I'm going to prepare a new case on Clarity before the end of N1. I might also have a case for someone else, I need to do some reasearch first and Ill keep this as a surprise ^^
So you can do it but clarity can't? He at least told you that he had a case against you but he doesn't want to discuss it. I've already shown I have issues with his decision and I pushed for him to post it. But you just spit out "I might have a case, it'll be a surprise!" How is that better than clarity?
I can't wait for both of your cases! They'll be so enjoyable, especially yours, cause I have no idea who the hell you're wanting to target but you think it's worth keeping secret.
I recommend no blues listen to any of djo's suggestions at the moment.
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@Obzy
What do you think of Clarity's defense?
Who else are you particularly suspicious of right now?
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@djo
Don't you think the argument should be dropped?
Let's say he actually did ask the host about it in PM. Trying to explain why he didn't disclose the information would just be WIFOM. Furthermore, if he IS town, trying to get his reasons for PMing is blue hunting (whether you mean to be doing it or not, his answer, if sincere (only he and scum would know), helps them hunt down the blues).
If you want to keep putting pressure on Clarity, by all means, please continue. But put smarter pressure on him as you'll get nowhere with this discussion.
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@Djo
You don't agree that the information could be helpful for blue hunting (if his answer is sincere, that is)? I realize that if you're town, you actually don't believe he's town also so his answer is a scum answer, but let's say you're both town. Do you think the answer to your question is good information to give scum?
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On November 06 2012 02:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 02:02 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 06 2012 02:01 Djodref wrote:On November 06 2012 00:51 Djodref wrote:
@ Clarity
What did you exactly ask marv and when ?
<snip>
Ask me again in the morning. Stop blue hunting and stop telling blues what to do. @ ClarityAfter a post like this, the only possibility for you to be alive tomorrow morning is being mafia.
Explain.
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@djo
Regarding your dramatic statement "I'm very disappointed that no one have taken a look on the guy who provoked Cheese mislynch.". Alsn did not provoke the cheese mislynch. He did try to get him lynched, but he wasn't responsible for it. Cheese had no chance of being lynched until he claimed VT.
With that said, yes, I do think we need to take a closer look into alsn soon.
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On November 06 2012 09:59 Djodref wrote:
Ok, this was dramatic. He started the bandwagon at least ^^
No, cheese started the bandwagon with his claim. Alsn was coincidentally already for voting him. There was no one following a cheese bandwagon based on alsn's case.
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Wow scum, you couldn't read that debears was a VT? LOL. Why do you think he high fived cheese?
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FoS Obzy
FoS Djo
partial FoS Sylver
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On November 06 2012 10:11 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 10:03 Rad wrote:
Wow scum, you couldn't read that debears was a VT? LOL. Why do you think he high fived cheese? @ RadThe mafia priority is not blue sniping. Debears was a good choice... While being active and all, debears was kind of a town leader, even if he was controversial. Him being gone makes life easier for scum. Also, we can make some assumptions - mafia wanted to frame sylver
- You and/or sylver are in the mafia team and you wanted debears gone
- mafia wanted to frame the people suspicious of debears
Feeling stupid, scum? 
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On November 06 2012 10:14 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 10:03 Rad wrote:
Wow scum, you couldn't read that debears was a VT? LOL. Why do you think he high fived cheese? @ RadCan I ask you who you expected to die ?
@Djo
Me or debears. Debears for the reason you said. He's the big hitter here, aggressive, makes big cases, is influential. Might also be blue!
Everyone here knows how gullible I am. Read through last game's scum QT. Lots of "rad's in love with you" speaking about cheese and debears (though tbh I was just in love with cheese <3, thought debears was scum but publicly claimed I thought he was town. Also I trust dandel a lot, in fact, shot kush because he helped convince me).
Why kill me if I think you're town?
Check my last list. Obzy #1 town. You I also considered town. Why kill me if I'm pretty much on your side in terms of my reads? They had a really hard time deciding to take me out, and I think you (or obzy, if you're not scum) had that same concern.
Of course scum don't have to necessarily blue hunt, but why not? Do you think scum was THAT afraid of debears? If so, that must be very telling in who we need to look at next. Who do you think debears had the best read on? Or do you think they were just generally afraid that he'll eventually figure them out?
Djo, let's say debears and me are both town. Why debears over me? I also thought da0ud and alsn were reasonable targets due to their lack of suspicion from anyone. I LOL'd when you said you were a reasonable target though. If you are town, keeping you around to confuse the hell out of everyone seems really smart.
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On November 06 2012 10:39 Djodref wrote:So you expected debears to die and you admit that scum had good reasons to die but your first reaction is "LOL scum, you have hit a VT. Better luck at blue sniping next time  " What the fuck was that ?
I expected myself to look more blue than debears. So going into it, I expected to die over him. When he died, I LOL'd because I had been reading him hard VT due to the cheese situation. Didn't we seem at least a bit more friendly since the lynch? I didn't give him any shit for the cheese lynch and was interested in his reads beyond sylver. That's because I had stopped suspecting him from my VT read on him and his questioning sylver when he himself was a lynch candidate (sylver should have jumped - my theory there atm is that he should have jumped over to debears to help the debears lynch since debears was a higher scum read than cheese, but he knew debears was town, so him jumping would look extra suspicious when debears flipped. May as well stick to cheese who he also knew was town but at least there he wouldn't look as suspicious because everyone else was so suspicious of cheese).
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@Obzy
I'm not 100% on you being scum yet so I want to give you a chance to redeem yourself if you are indeed town.
I looked through your filter and you just don't do any scum hunting. You're very neutral on everything. You FoS'd cheese and clarity and... that's about it? Maybe someone else that I'm forgetting, maybe not. You ask very neutral questions and you don't get in people's face about your concerns. I get that you could be a town that just doesn't want to get in people's faces, but I need you to scum hunt somehow. Find holes in people's arguments, push them, question them. I did not get the feel that you did any of that when I was looking through your filter. You're, from what I can tell, the definition of active neutral lurker, blending. You don't step on anyone's toes, but you need to start. I'm not convinced clarity's scum and just because many others are (or were, whatever the case now) convinced doesn't mean you're allowed to sit back and say "I'm definitely voting clarity next lynch" like it's a strong stance, or "you shouldn't try to convince me you're not scum, you should try to go find who is" like you're doing a good job of it and he isn't.
I realize telling you my concerns this early if you're scum gives you the chance to change and "convince" me by changing into what I wanted you to be. However, if you're town, I don't want to make the mistake of misreading you. I think if you're town, you'll be able to convince me with good scum hunting and smart pressure.
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On November 06 2012 11:24 Djodref wrote:@ RadDid you see how he avoided to discuss with me after this post + Show Spoiler +On November 04 2012 17:29 Djodref wrote:
Wouldn't you mind to discuss what you have against me right now ?
I'm going to have to sleep before the deadline and I don't want to have to defend your case against me while waking up and catching the thread. Plus it's going to be likely that I need to decide my vote at this time so I would prefer to focus on analysis rather than defense at that time.
I find it odd that you don't want to go after Cheese as well. He should be looking quite scummy in your eyes right now because he didn't answer your question. Also, if I want to sum up his contribution so far, he is just tunneling me after an OMGUSy FoS on me. on page 31 ? I cannot believe that you don't see this as a big scumtell. Please note that I didn't request him to post his case, I just wanted us to discuss as we had both the time to do it. I want your comment on this Rad. I don't think you gave it to me yet...
@Djo
Why the bolded you? Are you implying "you (me), of all people, should be smart enough to see it"? Sounds like you're just trying to convince me by appealing to me.
Thanks <3 But I don't agree with you.
Concerning his case on you. First off, he just threatened it. He didn't wait until last second and post it before you had a chance to defend yourself. If he was town and was about to be lynched, it would make sense for him to then post a case he had against you before the lynch went through. The reason I was concerned at first and wanted him to post it was in the scenario of him posting it with just enough time for people to be convinced to jump ship to you (30m-1h?), but that didn't happen. Maybe he's scum, and maybe he would have done that if cheese didn't get himself killed, but that didn't happen so we can't read into it.
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EPT
