EPTAcme Mini Mafia, Inc - Page 4
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Release
United States4397 Posts
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Release
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On November 05 2012 04:55 Promethelax wrote: Are you trying to say that you were not active lurking? Even though you replied to that post in less than ten minutes when before that you hadn't posted in about 20 hours. That seems highly unlikely. Who do you feel is scummiest now? Still me? If so, why? and if not, why? + Show Spoiler + I woke up at 10am PDT. I started catching up on p26. He made the post at around 10:45 and i finished reading at about 10:55. It's a coincidence. Believe it or don't. idc. + Show Spoiler + I always thought : active lurking = posts without anything useful passive lurking = no posts? w/e, just semantics. I honestly feel like you're more likely the serial killer at this stage because Kush seems to be the ringleader of the scum and you really don't fit in with what I've read on his filter. ________________________________________________ I did give a read through Acro's filter last night and it was not nearly as convincing as Kush's so ##vote: kush until i'm convinced otherwise. | ||
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On November 05 2012 05:30 thrawn2112 wrote: Release, why do you think prom is the sk? Give your specific reasons. The reasons i gave for his day1 lynch is why i firmly don't believe that he is town. However, the (few) interactions b/w Draz and Kush seemed too fluid (as though planned beforehand) so these i absolutely believe are scum. (check that case) The interactions b/w Acro and Kush also seem to be in the same manner, but to a lesser extent and that's why i'm far more hesitant to call Acro scum. (case again) + Show Spoiler + I don't have time right now to go through the kush's filter to check the quotes but If any one of these turned out to be town, I would be least surpised to see that it would be Acro. | ||
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On November 05 2012 03:47 Acrofales wrote: Hmmmm, rereading Release's filter and it is truly terrible. I can't believe I missed this on my first readthrough. Release vs. Kushm4sta: at the time I thought it was Kush being dumb and Release being dumber. However, it WAS a very easy mistake for scum to jump on and a newbie scum (and this would be Release's first scum game) could definitely be expected to try to jump on that. While in my nightpost I said that his "distraction" post read as too ballsy a move for scum, we must not forget that it actually worked. The topic shifted away from Release's aggression towards Kush and onto more easily handled subjects. Partially helped by Muso's claim. Release's behaviour in that claim was very very weird. The first thing he reacted with was This is strange play, regardless of alignment, and I am unsure what to make of it. One way this makes sense is if he was WAITING for a trap to be laid, and he caught it out. Town doesn't wait for traps. Scum does. However, in the whole ordeal, this is what really caught my eye: This slipped by me the first time. A 1 for 1 trade is a TERRIBLE deal for scum. Both scum and town players know that. However, if you KNOW Muso and Acro are both town, then you suddenly have to come up with a reason to lynch Muso. This reason is extremely forced. Most everybody else was just really confused about why Muso would claim mason as scum... which is the correct reaction. Kush actually called him out on this post at the time and his response was a classic OMGUS with some more idiotic logic where he tries to make a 1-1 trade make sense with complete lunacy: Then the vote switching: he wants to vote for Promethelax, but if we can get a majority on Drazak, he will go along with the deal. Ends up voting Muso because: In other words: doesn't give a shit about where his vote ends up as long as it secures a lynch (on a townie like Muso, who despite what Promethelax says was always going to be lynched, because it was way too late for a voteswitch anywhere else with half the town afk at the deadline). But the REAL nail in the coffin is: Wait... WHAT? You voted for Muso to ensure the lynch would happen. You ACTUALLY preferred both Promethelax and Drazak (or at least said you did)... however NOW his behaviour was suddenly very scummy. Add to that, that he has put 0 effort into this game except when under fire and we have ourselves a scum. I am not sure what this says about Promethelax. Still thinking things over. However, Release has surpassed Promethelax as my prime scum read. ##unvote ##vote Release PS. Yes, I said I was reading DarthPunk: that was completely inconclusive and I don't know what to make of him. My post realllly didn't cause the move. It was Muso's claim. If anything, the post attracted some attention for being a distraction itself (which, ofc, i claimed that it was). About the trap: I'm the one who said, "oh, Kush is trying to trick a mason into claiming." Then i said "w/e. I concede that it was an honest mistake." Then this. At the time, i thought that this was a (lousy) attempt to get me to go back to my petty complaint against Kush. I was working under the assumption that he was not a smurf, that he was a complete newb, and that the scum also saw him as a complete newb. With those, i believed that the scum believed he would be more useful as a sacrificial lamb than as someone who might be a liability. As you can see, I don't tend to have the typical reaction, so pardon me if i don't want to add fluff to my filter by saying "what the.." I actually wanted to have some thoughts. + Show Spoiler + Why should there be a correct reaction? People react to things differently. I don't see a townie motivation for saying that there should be (one) correct reaction. The way i saw Kush's post is that he was criticizing my claim that i read. Yes it is fluff, but it's 6 words of fluff. I didn't think it deserved an entire line worth of fluff in return. This reaction from Kush was extremely unreasonable from a make-progress perspective and trying to elicit emotion. As you saw, there was some emotion. The idiotic logic is largely irrelevant. The truth is that i was mocking his attempt to make me look like scum by answering a question that was (largely) directed at scum. I answer with anything even slightly revealing and he calls me scum for knowing what the scum are doing. I thought both Prome and Draz were scum. Simple. I didn't end up voting Muso. I voted prome because we had 8 on muso. I even tried to effect more votes on prome too because i was more convinced of a prome scum. No, i didn't vote for the Muso lynch to ensure it would happen. My vote for muso was long before the deadline. That, and that people can think for themselves: why are you trying to paint me as the bandwagon leader and strong influence in garnering votes for Muso? (when i clearly didn't) As i have said, i had a case against you, kush, draz, and prome building up. I was waiting for a prome-kush interraction bs but it never happened. __________________________________________________________ After writing this, i realize that post from Kush regarding my catching up on reading very manipulative, which reinforces my belief that he is scum. | ||
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Obviously, my conspiracy theory has been proven incorrect, especially the part about Kush, which brings to this: At the time i said Acro was my most tentative not-townie, but as of now, I'm taking drazak of that sheet. Kush, stop fucking trolling around. It makes it legitimately hard for me (and others) to determine whether you are scum. This is a scum trait, as townies are trying to establish their innocence. All of this flavor theory and trolling around bullshit has been your excuse for otherwise deplorable play all game. I don't believe for a second that you actually believed in your theory or that you unvoted because of your theory. The green check has allowed you to coast through this game scotch free and I say this is the time it stops.I will consider any flavor comment or other trolling comment from you from now on to be a wish to be dead. Very much would I feel annoyed if the you were the reason we lost after finding the Godfather of all people. I think the whole Drazak pulling a last minute vote switch is a null read. Anything more is way too far into wifom (for me at least) to read into. Personally, if I had been there, I too would probably have pulled a vote-switch to dare/bait someone to switch but afaik, I am the only person who does such a thing as that, so no townie points to drazak for that. On November 06 2012 13:25 Promethelax wrote: <snip> SK/Vig knocking out scum is where it is at, Draz is a good choice. Even if he isn't scum (unlikely, I know) the thread will be more conducive to a scum hunt next day with him gone. SK, your best bet is to work with town, esspesially if you took check immune, get scum and you'll be fine. <snip> fawking hell. More of this damage limitation stuff. I find it scum-motivated. We kill (whether by lynching or vigging) to kill scum. Not for information, not for removing a townie that isn't particularly conducive to scum-hunting. Already made a case against you for this on day 1 and i don't feel like repeating myself. + Show Spoiler + (yes, i know you think he is almost certain scum, i did read that before you storm in here. My point is that these clauses you use to say that we kill him regardless of alignment are scummy as fawk.) Something about Acrofales on the way.... | ||
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I'll get the thing up tomorrow closer to the resolution period (7am PDT, not that much closer). Hold me accountable to these figures to prove that i have done it already: (from MS word) 6843 words 32068 characters (w/o spaces) 38628 characters (w/ spaces) | ||
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Kush is scummy for being a troll all game and pulling bullshit like the flavor theory. aka never trying to establish his towniness. He completely took the green check and tried to claim town because of it. The last minute vote switches didn't actually change anything. What difference does it make that he switched? If we had a no lynch, then we'd have to look at kush and draz (and also whoever chose to unvote after them as well). I don't see why we couldn't have a framer. since i won't be here until after the deadline: On November 02 2012 21:29 Acrofales wrote: Muso One thing I think should be clear from this, and that is that this play was NOT a noobscum play. Well, either that, or his scumbuddy just completely took over in the second half of D1 and told him what to say and how to say it, which I don't think happened. That leaves Muso as an experienced town player, OR an experienced scum player. In either case the gambit is somewhat explainable and I don't have enough information about the rest of his playstyle to decide which, so I will just lay them both out here: The case for Muso Claims noob mason, knowing that a counterclaim is possible. If there is no counterclaim he gets his free ride on town thinking he's a power role. He also gets to play as if he has talked things over for his partner and is "mouth" for his partner. This can be a very powerful ploy if used well and could keep town running in circles all game. Unfortunately for him, he was counterclaimed. Phase 2 of the plan is needed: claim there is no reason for scum to claim mason (which there clearly is, see above) and that he is actually a VT claiming to "protect" the town power roles. An experienced/smart player could have seen this contingency in advance and thought of this backup. The case for Muso Has been made by Muso himself. The scenario where Muso is mafia is a high risk for not all that high a reward. It puts him in the spotlight and has a large chance of backfiring. It is a stupid play. Muso is not playing like he's stupid. At least, not since the first 24 hours of D1. The reason for claiming as town is not stupid. It's just a bit naive, but a good idea at the core. Some other stuff: I don't like this part of the post. If the aim was for the mason claim to go by quietly in the first place, it would NOT generate discussion and thus this could NOT have been the reason for claiming initially, as this post claims. He indicates that the "masons" (in this case my calling his bullshit) played badly by outing his claim, but if the claim had not been countered than this "gambit" would not have generated any discussion at all. This is POST-hoc reasoning about why the claim was good, which sets my spider senses of: he is fabricating the reasons for claiming afterwards, rather than thinking back to when he claimed and what his reasons for claiming were THEN. Secondly, he refers to this "wealth of information", but he never makes a case on anybody (except for rehashing my case on prplhz in more words) nor really says anything about his reads based on this wealth of information. It is quite a classical scum tell to make this kind of assertion, where you refer to past actions as if they have greatly benefited town, without actually benefiting town. In this case, however, it may have been complicated by my coming clean too: if he was planning on using that information to make a case, it got kinda blown away by my outing my fakeclaim too, and he DID flesh out my case on prplhz. So, is Muso scum? I am not sure at this point. I am quite a bit surer of prplhz and I will do his case next. One word: Equivocal. Do note that this is not a formal case (with some sort of "case on" label) but this sure as hell feels like a case from the part under the quote. First sentence is affirmative but retracts it with a "either that" and then retracts the either that, which makes me think he has no real idea of what he wants to prove, but is posting to look helpful. muso is basically a summary of what Muso has done and some theoreticals that may have occurred in Muso's head. How much of this can be proved? Zilch. There is too much doubt of his claim at the time for any of this to be largely relevant. Muso seemed scummy because of the claim; his reasons didn't change that: he always seemed scummy. [insert green muso here] I can live with this, and this ofc, as the green has it, implies that Muso is not scum. Some good reasoning for why Muso is bullshitting us, and some implications of scum again. More reasoning for Muso is bullshitting us. And a retraction. (switched from Muso bad to muso good again) In conclusion: nothing really. (OH, and this is a case. I didn't catch that the first time around. A case about "not sure" to be exact) All this switching back-and-forth is such a scummy move. There is a clear lack of organization within this post and lack of some form of a main idea, which i find is a good way to confuse people/ or at the least, waste time. __________________________________________________________ I don't think we can get much from Prplhz since he did replace out. Someone mentioned that scum who can't stand pressure tend to replace out? But i don't think it's too conclusive _____________________________________________________________ On November 02 2012 23:28 Acrofales wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 02 2012 23:13 kushm4sta wrote: I.voted for muso for this reason: time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen. Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake. I am anvil vanilla town. My theory is vts do not have character names. The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name. You need to focus more on behaviour and less on mechanics. 1. Because if you even did a LITTLE bit of thought you would see you're barking up the wrong tree and 2. Because more claims at this point is opposite of what we need. Let me spell it out for you. Unless you think it is the bluff of the century (and an INCREDIBLY risky one at that), it is completely impossible that Muso and I are both scum. That leaves: 1. We're both town. This is possible. 2. Muso is town and Acro is scum. This is retarded. Please answer why scum would COUNTERCLAIM a mason claim with no way of knowing it's not legit. 3. Muso is scum and Acro is town. This is possible. Given Muso's playstyle I am hesitant to say whether it's 1 or 3, but leaning marginally towards Muso being town. So, how about you look for scum instead of trying to get people to claim, which is starting to look very dodgy. I don't like this dichotomy bullshit. "any case with acro scum is retarded or impossible." For all we know, you could be pulling a huge bluff. And if we were to follow with your reasoning, we would never catch both scum. GG to us? I find discounting such possibilities as these is scummy and an attempt to lead to future incomplete analyses. __________________________________________________ + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2012 03:47 Acrofales wrote: Hmmmm, rereading Release's filter and it is truly terrible. I can't believe I missed this on my first readthrough. Release vs. Kushm4sta: at the time I thought it was Kush being dumb and Release being dumber. However, it WAS a very easy mistake for scum to jump on and a newbie scum (and this would be Release's first scum game) could definitely be expected to try to jump on that. While in my nightpost I said that his "distraction" post read as too ballsy a move for scum, we must not forget that it actually worked. The topic shifted away from Release's aggression towards Kush and onto more easily handled subjects. Partially helped by Muso's claim. Release's behaviour in that claim was very very weird. The first thing he reacted with was This is strange play, regardless of alignment, and I am unsure what to make of it. One way this makes sense is if he was WAITING for a trap to be laid, and he caught it out. Town doesn't wait for traps. Scum does. However, in the whole ordeal, this is what really caught my eye: This slipped by me the first time. A 1 for 1 trade is a TERRIBLE deal for scum. Both scum and town players know that. However, if you KNOW Muso and Acro are both town, then you suddenly have to come up with a reason to lynch Muso. This reason is extremely forced. Most everybody else was just really confused about why Muso would claim mason as scum... which is the correct reaction. Kush actually called him out on this post at the time and his response was a classic OMGUS with some more idiotic logic where he tries to make a 1-1 trade make sense with complete lunacy: Then the vote switching: he wants to vote for Promethelax, but if we can get a majority on Drazak, he will go along with the deal. Ends up voting Muso because: In other words: doesn't give a shit about where his vote ends up as long as it secures a lynch (on a townie like Muso, who despite what Promethelax says was always going to be lynched, because it was way too late for a voteswitch anywhere else with half the town afk at the deadline). But the REAL nail in the coffin is: Wait... WHAT? You voted for Muso to ensure the lynch would happen. You ACTUALLY preferred both Promethelax and Drazak (or at least said you did)... however NOW his behaviour was suddenly very scummy. Add to that, that he has put 0 effort into this game except when under fire and we have ourselves a scum. I am not sure what this says about Promethelax. Still thinking things over. However, Release has surpassed Promethelax as my prime scum read. ##unvote ##vote Release PS. Yes, I said I was reading DarthPunk: that was completely inconclusive and I don't know what to make of him. None of that equivocalness that we saw in the case against Muso. Release is scum, that's all he is. A real case. Unlike that against Muso. (repeated for emphasis) _____________________________________________________________ + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2012 23:54 Acrofales wrote: Not much to go on for Hopeless1der. I will thus make the case both ways, as I did for Muso. On Muso I felt the town case was stronger (as I said at the time). This time I am leaning towards scum: The case for Hopeless1der The scum mindset Why grudgingly? Why would a townie grudgingly admit to knowing something about a fellow townie that exculpates him. Would this not be a good thing? However, from a scum viewpoint, it makes sense: he does not want to admit that Kush derps pretty consistently, but feels compelled by the general direction of the game, and the need to make a good impression at the start of it to grudgingly admit to this information. Regarding Muso: At this point all Muso had done wrong, as far as anybody knew was lie about his experience in the game. If a mason claimed to be his partner, then his claim would be more believable than mine. However, hopeless wants to go ahead and lynch him REGARDLESS of any further developments. Now, hopeless may be a townie making an error of judgement and believing my claim unconditionally. However, at this point I see no real reason to say we should lynch Muso regardless unless you're scum and want to push strongly for that townie lynch. At this point, my claim was by far the more believable one (as evidenced by everybody voting Muso), so he picked Muso to bandwagon on, rather than me. Suspicious minds would say that you are paying way too close attention to the wording and that you are, in fact, bluehunting. I thought this was worth mentioning, because the tone rubbed me the wrong way at the time. I am still not quite sure why though. If I had to say, it is because Hopeless seems to be puzzling rather hard over whether my claim means I'm claiming VT or not. Something townies shouldn't be worried about (except that Kush got everybody riled up about it). The OMGUS Now I think that Muso did not word himself properly here, but his main point was that hopeless1der was unwilling to even consider the possibility that Muso was town. Hopeless skipped right over that part and made a jump of bad logic: Muso knows he'll flip town and is talking about AFTER his death, when everybody else will know he flipped town too. He thinks Prom is scum and Hopeless is trying to keep the lynch focused on Muso to protect his scumbuddy. However, regardless of what Prom flips, he urges us to look into Hopeless. The mere fact that Hopeless is unwilling to consider a town Muso is what he is finding scummy. This is indeed scummy behaviour. Hopeless' way of dealing with this is to discredit it and OMGUS someone who is already about to die anyway. He shows absolutely NO willingness to even consider the possibility that Muso is town. That may be because he already knows Muso is town and he has absolutely no reason to reconsider his thoughts given the rather large amounts of new information. The lurk After 18 hours of inactivity (all through the night, I might add, which is when scum is busy deciding whom to shoot in their own little QT) we get: This is an utterly useless post, which just emphasizes his lurkiness. I don't see this as "too bold to be scum". People had noticed his absense and were commenting on it. He needed to say something about it. This is all we get. Since then his activity has been limited to a rather bad meta-case against Promethelax, and a throwaway statement that he wants to lynch Drazak. If anything they feel like testers: if somebody bites and starts ramping up a case against Release or Drazak, he is ready to jump on it. However, he is completely noncommittal and happy to do no scumhunting of his own. This also ties into his earlier behaviour (see below): he showed commitment and activity in the game, but once people started reading him as town (me in my night post, for instance), he dropped off the map. Also, lets not forget Mattchew[/green's opinion. Mattchew is actually a pretty good scumhunter, despite him claiming otherwise, and it is always a good idea to listen to what he says (although moreso when he's scum  )The case for Hopeless1der Keeping discussion from derailing Why would scum be afraid of kush running rampant with his crazy theory. Fake claming seems particularly easy.. and all that is needed to placate Kush is a silly VT claim like Paint Bucket or Boulder if push really comes to shove and town starts mass claiming. And that's assuming scum isn't given a list of safeclaims in the first place (a fairly common thing for normal games). However, as town, this whole discussion was a giant distraction from what we should have been doing: scumhunting. Hopeless seems to be trying to keep the town on track. Keeping promises Too often scum make a promise to be active and then forget about it. It's one of the things I like to look for when reading filters. Hopeless makes a promise and delivers on it. This put him on my town list initially, as it shows a certain consistency. Not a big tell, though, especially given his later behaviour. See above. + Show Spoiler [Hopeless1der's promise] + On November 01 2012 12:19 Hopeless1der wrote: Well, I haven't properly commented on you yet Release. Based on what I've seen, really scummy push against kush. However, I'm going to read those newbie games you posted seeing as I was in two of them and then come back to this. We'll see how some meta analysis holds up. Also, I doubt I get that done tonight since I need to be up really early for work; Going to bed in a bit so I'll post my findings in an approximate 15 hours from now. 15 hours later: On November 02 2012 02:56 Hopeless1der wrote: Release's first game ever on TL, opening post[green]Town: + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2012 09:08 Release wrote: You say that you are for a vote, but you state that your other vote was luck based. Considering you said "very luck based", doesn't that mean to say that we are not going to experience the same luck? If we don't experience the same luck, we will very much end up lynching a townie, which makes your "for a vote" seem like you want to lynch a townie. Also, why are you talking about the last game? You should be more concerned with this game and find out ways for pointing out scum rather than ways not to. This seems more like filler. The useful part of your post can be summarized by: We should have a lynch today. A no-lynch would be detrimental. ##FOS: Mordanis Fairly similar to his attack on kush this game. 2nd game Town, he spends most of the game tunneling grush. Way more 1-liners, inconclusive to the current situation 3rd game Vig, he gets in my face pretty early, but generally tried to keep talking. Also cited activity issues due to school? 4th game Town, + Show Spoiler + On July 05 2012 08:58 Release wrote: I think YourHarry is Grush's new alias. Ignoring the copy-pasted policy stuff for now, Why on earth did you even post that scenario stuff about a VT fake-claiming a DT or blue? There was absolutely no indication that anyone had even planned on that (especially considering you had the first post). If anything, you have just shown people something they can do (to the detriment of the town). And why go through the casework? It's just fluff and you know it. This is very much a post looking like a contribution, while being a non-contribution, or even an anti-contribution. Im pretty sure, again, that no one was even remotely close to voting in a way to force a nolynch. I love the bolded line; you could have kept this post simple and concise. But you decided to make it "super-duper long." ##vote: Lazermonkey Yourharry, you should do more than OMGUS. You are definitely rivaling, for scumminess, against lazer. Fos: yourharry Fos: lazermonkey Keep in mind, he's already spent a game tunneling grush, from what I can tell, it was related to fake-claims. Opens with hostility and a vote. To be fair, I don't think he's ever rolled scum, but his jumping out of the gate fighting looks like hes town yet again. He's never played with kush before. He also explained that he expects people to NOT derp all over the thread when they post here: + Show Spoiler + On November 01 2012 10:09 Release wrote: well, you were assigning Mason traits to the miller, which led to the confusion that it did between who should claim. Also, you didn't mention mason but the "town who can talk to each other." You avoided saying mason. Mason is clear. "town who can talk to each other" could be mason, but could be miller if someone assumed you were talking about who YOU thought "could talk to each other." Mafia is a game in which posts can't be editted. People tend to check their posts for any dubious or tentative information. I highly doubt that you "mixed up" their names because things like that tend to get checked, which leads me to believe you said such things on purpose. I wasn't talking about the mass claim. That was rather obvious. Sadly, kush is unable to meet that requirement. My "meta" read is that this strong aggression is in fact representative of town release. Keeping in mind that there are no scum games to compare with, I'm not willing to vote Release for his posts against kush. i also agree with this from Zealos: I think I have a handle on this mason claim shitfest. I'm rereading this through more carefully because I just kind of glanced the thread over, but I think I'm going to be voting Muso in a moment. Incidentally, I also liked the content of this post as it agreed rather largely with what I found based on Release's meta. However, scum has an easy time making town reads look right, because they already know that the player is town. having gone through the Muso thing, i am feeling a little bit to tired to repeat the same things about his case against Hopeless1der. What i will say is that it does have both a scum case and a green case again. Knowing that Hope has flipped scum, i will NOT give any more credibility to this case than it deserves: it was an equivocal case that he could fall back on without having to appear too conspicuous and at the same time ditch without appearing too conspicuous. The red case is not as bad as the red case against Muso, but it is nothing extraordinary: Diction is a bit of a far stretch if ONE word is all that you are scoping. ---break from case--- I noticed that Hopeless1der seems to bite on my 1-1 trade idea and i can't help but feel that it was planted there as a scumslip; i doubt it was a coincidence that hope posts that then acro calls me out for such a thing then he calls hope a scum (albeit not for the same reason). --- resume--- calls out tunneling is ok. The scum and the lurk are good points in suggesting that Hope is a scum but are immediately followed by a Green Hopeless. Which makes me feel again that this is not going to be a conclusive post(it isn't; his vote stays on me.) A small plus for hope trying to get rid of Kush's flavor theory. Nothing huge. Darthpunk(or was it mkfuba?)also strongly opposed it. Liked the promies but at the end of this huge post: NO conclusive action or statements. This giant post, at the particular time did not serve any real purpose other than to appear useful. Equivocal. Conveniently, Hope is missing and Acrofales is the first to call this out. Now the case he wrote 8 hours back has some purpose to it. Essentially, he has exonerated himself from any blame/stance he had in the time between the post and the repost and 'claiming townie' because of this post. I don't like this. It reeks of someone who knows too much but can't keep it all together/hold himself accountable when shit actually starts happening (or his causing shit to happen). I give you Acro | ||
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On November 07 2012 00:38 Promethelax wrote: words: 1498 characters 8219 add the quotes and that stuff. This is a direct copy paste from word. I could even screeny. | ||
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On November 07 2012 03:22 Acrofales wrote: Okay... Release. We have established that you don't like my style of writing cases. Is there anything that you actually find scummy, rather than unlikeable? As for the dichotomy, it entirely 100% covers all cases. I just posted the 4 possible situations (discounting SK, who for all intents and purposes has the same information as town at that point). If you feel the conclusions I draw from one of them is wrong (namely, as you indicate, that I am scum and was pulling the bluff of the century), you are free to say so. You're wrong, btw. Now a bit more about the cases. I'm not going to claim my case on Hopeless1der was terribly strong. At the time I wasn't actually planning on voting with it. It was more an update of my findings, because earlier I had listed Hopeless1der as reading townie and I found that I no longer did so. It was more a case to gather feedback and spark discussion than a "lets lynch Hopeless" case at the time. However, as time went on I found Prom looking slightly less scummy. My entire thought process is layed out in the thread: I even wanted to no-lynch at one point, because nobody was talking, I was not feeling secure enough about Prom anymore and I thought it was mylo. When people came back and started talking and I learned it wasn't mylo, I figured Prom was back on the table. However, the longer the discussion with Prom (and the other people active at the time) went, the less I felt a Prom lynch. My only alternative at that time was Hopeless1der, whose defense I was not particularly happy with (I could explain it post-hoc, but what's the point, he flipped scum). Why were you off the table at the time? 1. Your case on Kush, with connections and all that jazz. It seemed too farfetched to be some crazyness made up by scum. 2. The main point of my case on you was based on a misunderstanding. 3. Your defense seemed adequate at the time. I presume that explains my thought process enough? You still haven't really said what you think of Drazak. You agree that he needs to be killed asap? About the nonconclusive case about Muso? That was just putting your thoughts out too? The "not strong" is partly my point about your cases: You don't hold yourself particularly accountable to them. Compare youself to risk: He's extremely terse but every post at least has something fairly concrete about it. Your posts are pretty much the opposite (except for the case against me) which brings me to: the case against me: The main point about the case against me is that you made a definitive Release is scum with no "maybe a townie too." Your other posts do not have the same conclusiveness. I don't feel that he needs to be killed asap. However, he still has not given any reasoning for his posts. If he posts nothing before the resolution period (he might be busy, and boy does he not like kills based on irl stuff getting in the way), then he needs to be killed. So essentially, i'm fine with a Drazak kill that gets sent in 1 minute before the deadline (given he doesnt post...) | ||
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Had i been there, i would probably have voted for Hopeless when he came back to the thread and didn't defend himself. However, i would have switched to promethelax after a lynch against Hope was secured. It's just how i roll. My top three scum right now are: Prome, Acro, and Kush. However, Drazak will shoot to the top if he does not provide a tenable response before the deadline. My reaction to the lynch: Got a scum so we live for another day. That's good. Hope had been pretty silent all game and he seemed to have planned some scumslips (in hindsight ofc). It seems like he was bussed by Acro (to me, although no one seems to share that view). On November 06 2012 07:47 Hopeless1der wrote: I think I explained that post, and why I don't think your scum right now. Scumreads: Acro for making a billion cases and finally getting one to stick. Draz for being useless and OMGUS'ing everyone. I don't have a third right now. + Show Spoiler + Just because he is scum is not a reason for us to want to ignore everything he says: at the time he was certainly going to die and he should be thinking that his words would be considered with disdain at best (aka not considered seriously). Not to say that this is entirely trustworthy, but Hope makes this case work and Acro get's off free as an impossible scum. | ||
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On November 07 2012 05:51 Acrofales wrote: So Release, do you think Drazak is scum? Or what the hell is your opinion on him? Why must the kill be sent in 1 minute before the deadline. The mind boggles. I think the last minute switch is fine. But that he has no reason for his own actions is not. If he can give us his reasons for why he did what he did, I'd be OK with keeping him alive. However, if he doesn't then he is just bullshitting us and we should kill him. This sounds wishy-washy as fawk but this is how i think. Here for another 1-2 minutes and be back later. | ||
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On November 07 2012 05:47 Promethelax wrote: So you believe him? Please state this, or the opposite, explicitly. If he posts something before deadline, I'll believe him. Otherwise, not. | ||
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##vote drazak His defense before the deadline wasn't tenable. avoid a mislynch? The response that would have exonerated him (in my eyes) is that he had no reason at all, or that he was dicking around with his vote because already secured. | ||
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On November 07 2012 09:04 thrawn2112 wrote: release, you think that acro claimed mason while knowing that muso was town? seems too crazy I just feel that this is leading to wifom. On November 03 2012 21:11 Acrofales wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 19:48 Promethelax wrote: This is a huge town tell on Kush. These were the thoughts I had as well but had not yet expressed due to the awful timing of that TL drop. Sorry I have been gone so long, work is a thing I have to do. I don't know of any way for mafia to know someone's role at that point. Kush. My name doesn't fit the theme you are looking at. How does that affect your read? I would also point to Acro giving out the idea that Kush and I would look scummy if Muso flipped town. Setting up the next mislynch. Figured I'd answer you two as a 2-for-1. You are both idiots for thinking Muso flipping green makes me look scummy. I don't think I am "confirmed town", because you can wifom a scum motive into pretty much anything, but you have to admit that Ockham's razor dubs me as pretty damn townie at this point. I was writing up my entire thought process, but I realized I don't need to. The reason is that counter-claiming a mason claim as scum is beyond idiotic. And anybody not seeing that I am almost certainly town through these actions is simply tunneling, or scum trying to discredit me. To answer kush's question: there is no way for scum to know the claim is fake, other than the same way I did: the claim felt wrong. However, as scum you have EXTRA information: you know the claimer is town. Anybody who has not played scum (apparently quite a few of you) do not know how much power that gives you: you never have to doubt or second-guess your cases: you know what is true about them already. If you want an example, look at Mattchew's play in Holy Roman Maffia. He bussed all his teammates, because he couldn't see how anybody could overlook some of their "obvious" scumslips. However, it also limits you: you do NOT question a townie claiming mason. Simply doesn't happen. At most a scum would've ticked it as "possible fake claim, maybe SK?" There is absolutely NO reason for scum to counterclaim. None. Anybody trying to wifom this around is simply lacking in knowledge on how scum plays. Yes, you could wifom anything and say "but if people think scum has no reason to counterclaim masons then they DO have a reason to counterclaim masons"... except that in most cases this will result in the scum getting lynched. I KNEW I'd have an uphill battle to not get lynched if Muso's claim was true. It was why I set up the whole encrypted thing beforehand. + Show Spoiler + The flavour theory is retarded. It's all I can say in my defense against that. It is fucking stupid to try to use flavour in Bugs' games, who meticulously sets up the game so flavour CANNOT be used and good old-fashioned analysis must prevail. Keep your mechanic-based analysis to themed games. This and that he repeatedly calls himself town still leave me doubtful. | ||
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On November 07 2012 09:17 thrawn2112 wrote: why did you change your mind on drazak? because he didn't respond by some arbitrary time? you said a lot of words during n1 about how acro is scum, and you specifically said that acro, prome, and kush are your top scumreads. to me your drazak vote looks like you're abandoning your scumreads to sheep onto the popular vote I said if he didn't provide a tenable response (aka no reason), he would shoot to the top. He didn't, so he shot to the top. | ||
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