EPT
Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life?
Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with?
GSL Mini Mafia III - Page 2
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Ok, gone over austin's filter. He seems a little scummy guys. His only read so far is an easy one in which he openly says that is a provocating vote. On October 21 2012 08:24 austinmcc wrote: Realized just saying "Man, this guy hasn't said much" isn't going to do anything. ##Vote: vaderseven Much of your posting is just about DP last night, and everyone seems to have concluded that DP is town because of how he explained/tried to explain himself. That was just easy activity and an easy way to make it look like you cared about something. That applies to me too. We can all be suspicious of EVERYONE who has basically only been active for that. drazak. There was a lot of discussion about DP last night. In light of that discussion, do you still feel that your vote is on scum? If so, why? If not, out of the players who were poking at DP tonight, who looks the scummiest in the way they interacted with DP? His other main post contains a ton of fluff and doesn't really conclude anything: On October 21 2012 08:02 austinmcc wrote: I don't remember kei in LC tbh. I was mostly inactive D1, came back looking at those couple specific people, died before I had a good handle on the full game. Kei from Aperture 2 I feel like is a solid townie as far as being active, looking town, once the game starts. Not...the type of player who takes advantage of that, though? Basically was the towniest person in game, was going to get protection, but kind of let spammier people take over and direct the flow of the game, and noticed that that was happening (kei, your game was much more fun when we were scumhunting than claiming/solving the game bit). I expect some good and insightful posts from him, but I haven't seen him be particularly aggressive. I think we also played...rockband? And maybe another game? I'll have to look through. I don't have a big meta handle on keirathi, but I'm also not generally good at catching people via meta or even USING meta. I mainly focus on picking out odd questions, or questions that never got pursued. That seems to be when I'm most effective, and so I'm going to try and mine the thread hard for things that stick out. Right now, and I haven't looked at his past play recently, but v7 is sticking out to me somewhat. The DP stuff was EASY to mine for activity last night, poke at it poke at it poke at it. And very safe too, because the way he started to flop around felt townie, so you could attack attack attack and just say "Eh, his flopping around townie." A couple of us did that, but DP has almost only talked about his past games and the DP stuff last night. (AND THEN HE MAY HAVE SPOILED GSL, UNSURE, I AIN'T CLICKING THAT UNTIL I WATCH) There's nothing more than that to go on, but out of all the people who have some posts, his feel like there's the least in them. Not relevant to anything that's happening, but spoilered for DP and so thread can see my thought process: + Show Spoiler + On October 20 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote: So what you are saying is that me asking the only person in the thread at that point makes less sense than calling for a mass claim 30 mins into day one. 0_o I asked if you thought he was scum because of this On October 20 2012 13:20 DarthPunk wrote: If there was even the slightest chance that draz was scum and would be less comfortable fake claiming it was a better play than the alternative IMO. I am done with this. You don't agree. so be it. If you didn't have any particular reason to believe draz was scum, then I was uncertain why you'd only ask HIM to roleclaim. The logic that this was a better play than not asking people would hold true for everyone, so if you were REALLY hanging your hat on "asking and making them claim VT is helpful" then you should have been asking EVERYONE, unless you had particular scumreads. That's why I ask, because that logic that you gave wasn't draz-specific, yet your question WAS draz-specific. There's a disconnect there, that I felt like would be addressed if you actually thought he was scum. I think asking ONE person this thing that you think is good to get answers to is weird, because you SHOULD be thinking it's good to ask every person in the game that. He's also being very non-committing in Drazak. I find this weird because it really depends on your opinion of what scum tend to do. Drazak said something that's either townie-looking or scummy-looking, depending on your view of it. It's way too passive to simply say "null read" on him. This makes me very suspicious of austin. On October 22 2012 00:17 austinmcc wrote: It's your natural inclination to want to lynch a townie. Yes. It is NOT normal for you to say "Let's lynch a townie." There's a huge difference. You say, "This guy (and I don't want to tell you this, but he's totes town) looks scummy for x and y, I think we should vote him." You do not go, "Attention town, I think this guy is townie, let's lynch him." The vote on someone you explicitly say doesn't feel scummy is NOT good townie play. But it's NOT good scum play. Again, look at it from both sides. It's not that the vote makes no sense from a townie, it's that the vote makes no sense from either alignment. Therefore, you can't get a read off it; it's null. It's very unlike him to take this sort of stance. In both townie games I've played with him, he would madly accuse people of being scum, and I can't remember him being this impartial. ##FoS austin + Show Spoiler + The stupid thing brits thing say was meant as a joke. Looking back at it, seems like it may have been a bit overboard. Sorry if someone has taken offense by this  | ||
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On October 22 2012 03:04 marvellosity wrote: Z-Bo, I disagree with your entire read on austin regarding that drazak stuff. His stance is entirely understandable and mirrors my own pretty closely. It's not rational for town OR scum to say you're gonna kill a townie (for slightly different reasons), and the conclusion from that is that it's somewhat of a null tell. In other words, I've been leaning townie on drazak because of the overall feel of his filter; not because what he did in that instance I felt was strongly scummy or townie. It's entirely understandable, but it doesn't match his meta, in my opinion. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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It's more of the tone of his posts. On Liquid City, note how he finds a small breach in detail and immediately tunnels on it. He did the same thing in LVII against me. He demonstrates an aggressive, investigative style. This isn't what I'm viewing from him this game. He's being passive and inconclusive on his reads. His only vote is deemed a "provocation" one. I do not view it as a real attempt at pressure, and his general filter seems off. In my mind the townie austin would have been all over drazak or DP over something such as has happened in this game. | ||
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k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On October 22 2012 04:00 Hapahauli wrote: Uhhgggh fine I'm scum. + Show Spoiler + Actually I'm town+ Show Spoiler + But in all seriousness, is there anything you want me to address? Like I don't understand this helpless attitude you're taking to making a read on me. I understand jokes to a point, but I'm not unreadable and I'm a bit suspicious of this nonchalant attitude you're taking to determining my alignment. I'm joking dude. It has nothing to do with my suspicions on you, which do exist. In all seriousness, however, I am a bit suspicious of you. Your reads so far seem too... easy. I don't like how you agreed with me on the Keirathi case: Yah I'm a bit surprised at how little Kei has contributed so far. Early D1 caveats of course, but I always had the impression that his town play was very active on the early days. This wasn't really my main issue. He is not very active on the first days, as in liquid city he actually got more active towards the later days. I don't like how you put out your initial "impression" Also, some of your posts are extremely fluffy: On October 20 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote: The nice thing about policy is we can choose how strictly to enforce it or not. I just would like to set the stage for some discussion, and create an environment where people aren't scared to seriously pursue scumreads. And this reminds me a lot of your newbie scum game. I'm not gonna go too far on you, as you aren't a realistic lynch for today, but since you asked "in all seriousness" then yea, I am suspicious of you. I don't feel there's anything about this suspicion that I want you to address though, whether as town or scum you are going to disagree, but feel free to expand on anything if you want. Right now I'm more interested in your thoughts of the other suspects. | ||
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On October 22 2012 04:01 austinmcc wrote: Hmmm. I'm glad I don't seem crazy tunnelly. Look at Looney Lynching and my play there, or my comments in obs chat. Yes, I've been exceptionally tunnelly in some recent games. It didn't work out well. I'm curious though, why would you think townie austinmcc would be all over drazak or DP? Because some elements of what they said I figured you would be immediately on their tail. I've taken a look at looney, and well, fine lol. I'll make that a null read on you. You are also fairly active, so I don't think you'd make a good lynch today. I'm seriously looking into Keir/v7. Since Keir is actually showing his face, I'm almost almost almost willing to plunge the hammer on v7. I can't think of a better lynch than him, and his absence is just dragging the game out. The reason why I'm not wanting to push it is that he hasn't said shit yet in face of death. A scum, having 4 votes on him, if he could post, would definitely post and try to avoid it, no? | ||
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On October 22 2012 04:33 austinmcc wrote: His not posting could go either way, it doesn't really do anything. Yea, so should we lynch him because of it? | ||
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Marv, what say you? | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On October 22 2012 04:51 Hapahauli wrote: Uhh wat? Well of course I'll "expand" on what you've said, but you aren't at all in the least bit curious to hear my explanations for my actions when you are suspicious of me? a) I am, but like I said, I am more interested in your reads. Now, however, you've successfully convinced me you need more looking into. As for my "easy reads", I still stand by them. I like taking stances early in the game. Sometimes I'm wrong about them (actually I was really wrong about DP in mafia LVII while I was alive), but it's a nice way to get things going. Also, I really stand by my town read on DP this game (he has 5 pages of filter already FFS). Starting to waver on Draz a bit due to his recent inactivity. b) I have no problems with your town read on DP. I agree with them. I don't understand why you felt the need to bring this up. I don't think I mentioned that I was troubled with you taking stances early on. My trouble was with the "easy reads on scum, and I think this was quite clear when I mentioned v7, the "easy read" I'm referring to. As for the "reminding you of my scum newbie game"... in what regard? Can't respond to this if I have no idea wtf you're talking about. c) The general feel of your posts. I'm not going to go through your old filters to prove what I mean, unless I really want you dead. As for "fluffy" posts - I haven't had much substance to go on until today, but with some newfound posting, let's get to work on that: kk Regarding Kei There's nothing in his filter that sets of scum alarms for me. His activity is normal for either alignment (therefore null), and I do like that he seems like he's actively thinking about Drazak's filter. He does a mini-180 on his stance on Drazak which seems pretty logical - first thinking that his vote is more likely town, then when Drazak doesn't post, he's willing to change his read due to the lack of pressure that Draz is putting on DP. On top of that, having read through his scum meta in GSL I extensively, I find his scum play to be overall more cooperative. I'm definitely not lynching him on his filter, but I'd like to hear more from him. Null/leaning-town on Kei. d) Cooperative as in looking more townie and seeming like he is trying to scumhunt more? I don't understand what you mean here. Regarding Austin Just like Marv, I'm really really good at wanting to mislynch town-austin every time we're in a game together. However unlike marv, I don't get townie vibes from his filter so far. This post especially is strange: It's divided into three parts: 1) Meta-talk on Kei 2) stuff on v7/DP 3) Explanation of thought process to DP 1) He really doesn't say anything here. I think he's capable of doing this as town though, and he mentions that he's not very big on meta. This is fine. 2) This starts to get a bit weird, and I can't follow the logic at all. He says v7 is sticking out to him, and then talks about the DP situation for the entire paragraph. 3) This strikes me as a defensive impulse. I dont' understand why austin would get defensive here or really bother to explain his actions when no one was suspecting him for it. Overall, austin's D1 play this game is more active, and I haven't seen it before and don't know what to make of it. However, I do find him slightly scummy because of the above post and want some answers. This later part on austin's case I'm going to respond here, because I have MAJOR issues with it. 1) I asked him for his town read on keir.. 2) What? What logic don't you follow. His logic seems pretty clear to me. You are treating the events "v7 sticking out to him" and "the DP situation" as separate events. To me it seems quite clear that he is troubled with v7 because of his "easy voting" on DP. 3) It looks like a defensive impulse. Are you saying it makes him seem scummy? I REALLY dislike point number 2). Wtf, I say. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing. /applauds Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. | ||
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On October 22 2012 05:29 Hapahauli wrote: Red stuff: a) Cool. b) Easy reads on scum? What's "easy" about my v7 read? It's straightforward yes, but I don't get why it's inappropriate for me to vote a guy for the reasons I've listed. c) Uhhhh k. d) Scum Kei in GSL I tried to be cooperative with other players IMO - he strayed away from confrontations with people he didn't have scumreads on. Austin case stuff: 1) Yes you did, and that's why I said it was "fine" explicitly. I just broke it down for the sake of completeness. 2) Yeah I didn't get his logic on my first readthrough. Austin explained it quite thoroughly in his spoilers though, so yeah I changed my mind on this quite a bit. 3) Yes I'm suggesting a defensive impulse (or more specifically, defending yourself when you aren't suspicious) is scummy. However, I do think he's capable of this as town, and without #2 as valid, I'm no longer leaning scum on austin. b) There's a ton of things going on. You've planted your vote and since then have only written semi-cases on austin and Keir, which concluded little. You are happy and comfy with your vote on v7 and haven't bothered answering any of my inquiries of his lynch. Also, you are generally more investigative (i.e ask more quesitons, etc.), I use LVII as reference here. So far you've played quite differently than in LVII, in my opinion. Your case on austin seemed extremely forged, and I'm seriously bugged by point no. 2). It's like you were thinking: "hmmm... let's see, what looks scummy here that I can pounce on.." instead of "is this guy scum?". This uncharacteristic error could have very well been just that, a misinterpretation. But coming from you I find it oddly suspicious. | ||
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On October 22 2012 05:50 marvellosity wrote: I'm not exactly sure. A couple of posts later in his filter he explains he was just calling out bullshit and didn't read anything alignment-y from it. But then if that's the case, then the contributions were just pointless and not really contributions. I think Kei is playing pretty scummily - but what gives me pause is in his recent post, he just told town he doesn't really have any reads. Given he's under some pressure, it makes little sense for a scum Kei to do that. But then I find myself going around in stupid little wifom circles. What do you think? I don't have these little niggles about vader, so I'd quite like to hammer him. But we're still going places with discussion so I'm loathe to right now. Z-bo, are you sure that part of your read on Hapa isn't that you're putting him on a pedestal and placing unreasonable expectation from his posting? I'm getting that vibe from what you're posting about him. No, I learned my lesson with VE last game. | ||
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On October 22 2012 05:52 Hapahauli wrote: What's there to answer? You haven't asked me anything about the v7 vote that I didn't answer already. You still also have not addressed why you don't think my rationale is insufficient. Uncharacteristic for me? I am the king of forced D1 cases. Also, do you realize how hypocritical you're sounding right now? Hypocritical to the point of scumminess. Take a gander of your post here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=14#274 You explicitly reference austin's post (the one I initially objected to) and this is how you described it: Huhwat? Whether you agree with it or not, I made an actual attempt to analyze austin's post. Instead, you dismissed the whole thing as fluff, and somehow my case is forced? Hell given your objections with austin's post, and given that you found him scummy then, it is really weird that you picked a fight over my analysis. Explain yourself sir. What the hell? I have like 4 posts contemplating v7's lynch, as I was, and still am, seriously considering dropping my hammer vote on him. If you really think he's scum, why aren't you pushing him when I'm showing doubt? Anyways, since you are really making me go through my filter and pick out what I mean, here are some things: On October 22 2012 04:25 Z-BosoN wrote: Because some elements of what they said I figured you would be immediately on their tail. I've taken a look at looney, and well, fine lol. I'll make that a null read on you. You are also fairly active, so I don't think you'd make a good lynch today. I'm seriously looking into Keir/v7. Since Keir is actually showing his face, I'm almost almost almost willing to plunge the hammer on v7. I can't think of a better lynch than him, and his absence is just dragging the game out. The reason why I'm not wanting to push it is that he hasn't said shit yet in face of death. A scum, having 4 votes on him, if he could post, would definitely post and try to avoid it, no? On October 22 2012 04:45 Z-BosoN wrote: Well, as you yourself said, a lot of people jumped on DP for this. You removed blame on them because they continued to post and make contributions. So in a way, the fact that he isn't posting when ONLY having done that in this game is why people want him dead right now. Since he hasn't posted yet, I'm concluding that he's not reading the thread, and not really giving a damn. Marv, what say you? I'm trying to conclude whether he should die 100% right now or if we should wait. Regarding to the "forcedness" of your d1 cases, I'm pretty aware of that. I don't think this looked like a forced case, this looked like a fake case, there's a difference. I don't remember if I used the word "forced", but anyways, that's what i meant. Also, your traditional OMGUS of whoever is pressuring you is pretty unjust. You've taken one specific part on a much bigger post I made and extrapolated it into stamping my whole case on him as fake. I was very clear on my main problem with austin: He was not as aggressive as he usually is and his posting is different than from both the games he's played against me. Austin himself noticed this and convinced me otherwise.. | ||
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It's funny you got all riled up on the word "unjust". Initially, I had written "retarded", but I didn't want to sound like a dick and start a war. So I used a word that better describes what you are doing. You are using a fraction of one post I make to deem me hypocritical. So, based on your weird-ass interpretation of the word "unjust", you unvote someone you were uber confident on, before he went afk for an additional 12 hours or more. Very interesting, to say the least. I'll mull this over dinner. | ||
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On October 22 2012 06:33 marvellosity wrote: I don't enjoy using scales with no fun factor. Include a really whiny celebrity and I will answer. More seriously, it's not the whining, it's that he didn't actually answer your question regarding why he's attacking you over austin's posts. Nor was what you were doing OMGUS, you were asking for an explanation. Z-Bo, you're seriously farting around with this Hapa stuff, what gives? I'm finding this meta off. His case on austin didn't help, and seemed fake as all fuck, so I'm pouncing on him for it. Not sure what you mean by "farting around". I've also gone over beforehand why I was not suspicious of austin anymore, he's handled himself pretty well to both mine and hapa's inquiries. Tbh, I'm not sure on hapa. I'm pressuring him but his views are the same as mine, in the end. I'm very confused about his unvoting, though, seems very misplaced over some word I used. | ||
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Also, it came waaay after I stopped finding austin suspicious. You guys are not reading... | ||
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1) Ok, you want me to say it was a Good fake case? ffs 2) To be frank, I didn't bother checking the exact time frame. Your uber-confidence was an assumption I made based on this: What's there to answer? You haven't asked me anything about the v7 vote that I didn't answer already. You still also have not addressed why you don't think my rationale is insufficient. You are confident on your vote, not confident on him being scum. To be clear, try this: So, based on your weird-ass interpretation of the word "unjust", you unvote someone you had a scum-read on, a vote which came before he went afk for an additional 12 hours or more. Also, you are still not being concise about my "Hypocrisy". Again. you took a small portion of my case and used it to deem it weak, fake, forced, bad, whatever. That's a bunch of crap if you are really trying to find scumminess in my filter. Unjust too whiny a word? Try ridiculous. This is LVII all over again. I'm done with you. Unless you actually really really find me scum (in which case, please, carry on), then this is pointless. I find you suspicious, I don't understand some of your actions, I found your initial meta off (now it's pretty much dead on) but that's about it, I'm not lynching you over v7/Keir and I will need more time to think if your actions make more sense from townie you or scummy you. | ||
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On October 22 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote: Okeydoke that's townie enough. Certainly can't lynch you over v7 at this point. Though I do want to clear this up: I have never heard of a confident vote being used as a scumtell. Maybe scum confidence, but not the other way around. I think I made it clear, but w/e. Looks like you're done with it and I am too. Now back to the subject of vaderseven - do we want to set a time to hammer him? His inactivity is fairly absurd at this point, and I believe we should set a deadline. I mentioned 12 hours earlier, however, we're getting good discussion now and I don't want to rush things. Perhaps at this time tomorrow, in exactly 24 hours (7:00 KST according to TL.net), hammertime if he doesn't post? I didn't use your confidence on a vote as a scum tell. I said that you unvoted that over something I deem to be [u]nothing. I also said it was weird. If it's a scumtell, I still have to think about it. In my view, the more time, the more chances town actually have. Unless discussion completely stagnates, we should wait as long as possible (even though what we really want is to see v7's godamn alignment ASAP) Let's lynch him tomorrow at 7 KST then, if he doesn't make himself useful in any manner. Or at least until there's no one talking about anything. Couple of observations during our little engagement. 1) Drazak is 100% awol 2) Iamperfection even posted a (now THAT is whiny) "why is everyone ignoring me" post in the middle of all this. 3) marv was pretty quick to take a stance in me vs. you. 1) makes me redact some of my townie thoughts on him. He better have some damn good reason for not posting. Seems like he only bothered to post to defend himself. 2) gives me a slight town tell on iamp 3) is weird. There were a lot of arguments floating around, and it didn't seem like he went too deep in them. Thoughts? [/i] | ||
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