EPT/in
Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX
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 Also I went by "hiro" in like 1995 lol | ||
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On October 25 2012 09:06 debears wrote: Welcome everyone!!!! Been waiting for this for a while!!! A few things I'd like to know from everyone. 1) How many games have you played in? 2) How many have you observed seriously? 3)Will you be normally around for lynch? For me 1) 2 games 2) 3/4 3) Yes I will - except this friday (most likely. I play baseball for my college and we have a game friday night. don't know for sure how long it will go) Look forward to hearing from all of you. Let's get this rolllinngggg!!!!!! Cool this should be fun! 1. 0 games 2. I watched the last newbie game for about 3-4 days before it was over I think? I forget exactly, I was just thinking "hmm ok fine what's this mafia stuff about" and got hooked to the discussions. 3. I should be done with work at least an hour before the lynch on most days, sometimes 2 hours before (I tend to work 10am to 6pm but sometimes I work later, so in that case I'll just have to jump on to vote and run). Most of my more meaningful discussion will probably happen at night and I should be able to make posts occasionally throughout the day, but 7pm-2am EST I'll probably be the most active. Weekends it'll depend but I'll probably be on and off throughout the day. Tonight I gotta run for 1-2 hours at 9pm because I have an sc2 match. | ||
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Can you explain what what the noob card is? | ||
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So you're suggesting that in advance, we shouldn't accept anyone trying to play the newbie card as a defense. Makes sense. | ||
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On October 25 2012 11:39 debears wrote: I might be. But, consider this. How did that slip from kush come about? Darthpunks heavy pressure.....duh. policy lynches, on the other hand, are usually caused by passivity or something like a claim. Besides, its fairly easy to discuss policy lynches. Its not easy to be confident. I learned my mistake last game. I didn't stick to a read til the SDM case. I basically said screw it and went with it. Where did that confidence get me? You're being especially confusing right now, at least for me. Dan basically said sure, if we have a confirmed mafia d1 (which he claims would be difficult without a major slip), lynch, otherwise it might be necessary to policy lynch. This seems reasonable. Your statement, however, is extremely confusing. Without knowing your previous game in depth, none of what I quoted above means anything. Can you please explain more briefly/clearly "where your confidence got you"? Also, what does your previous confidence have to do with any potential scenario for a d1 lynch? | ||
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On October 25 2012 12:58 Djodref wrote: I don't think it's going to be difficult to find a scum D1. It's better for us to be confident about this because I think it's quite easy to reveal scum newbies when you put pressure on them. Plus, if you are town and you are not confident, people are going to feel it through your posts and are going to become suspicious about you. We have to be assertive and for this, we have to be confident in our ability to find scum. I know it looks difficult at first but don't forget that scum players are likely to be as inexperienced as you in this game. I'm really not getting this whole confidence theme going on and not really sure what confidence has to do with lynching a scum on d1. Confidence should be a result of being sure of something, not just being confident for the sake of being confident. If we're confident on a scum lynch d1, great, we lynch them, but really that confidence should come naturally from knowing we're right on a lynch vote. Even as a complete newbie, I'm not looking at this as "newbie vs newbie", I'm just looking at it as myself vs a bunch of unknown people. I'm certainly not counting on someone screwing up, which is how you're suggesting we approach this. The only way that it would be easy to find a scum d1 is if they slip up, and there's no guarantee that they'll slip up, newbie or not. For all we know, they could all lurk, which means they cannot slip up, and your "confidence" would only lead to lynching someone who's not lurking because you've forced yourself to be "confident". | ||
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On October 25 2012 13:15 debears wrote: Ok this phone posting iw hard. Forgive th disorganization. Confidence has everything to do with d1. If everyone is confident and pushes cases, then scum will be forced to do the same. That is the key. We need to force scumcto contribute early My confidence led to me making a game winning case on arguably the most townie looking player (who was the last scum) It wasn't your confidence, it was your reasoning. Confidence had nothing to do with it. I completely agree that we should push cases, but we shouldn't become unnecessarily confident and make lynch decisions based on it. Confidence based on nothing makes no sense. Confidence based on something is what will come naturally. No one has said that we should necessarily lynch lurkers on d1. Analyze, make a case IF you're confident, and then we can push for a scum lynch or push for a lurker lunch depending on how confident we all are. | ||
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On October 25 2012 13:23 Djodref wrote: I've realized that in my last newbie game. Not being confident led me to write wish-washy posts and it is not good for general town mentality. Also I like DarthPunk style with his early heavy pressure. Pretty newbie scums can slip very easy, kush or not kush. Plus I had some difficulties in my last mafia games to post properly when people where directly pressure me. Why even think about artificial confidence though? Why is the concept of confidence even something to be considered beyond "if you're confident, push your case!" That's all confidence is good for. Artificial confidence does nothing. I get the point of "try to be more confident in your reads" or something to that extent, but I don't understand what's good about having confidence in pushing for a d1 scum lynch instead of lynching a lurker. We should do whatever we think is best at that point, not necessarily 1 thing or the other. | ||
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On October 25 2012 13:24 debears wrote: Rad, I understand what you're saying. However, you are misinterpretjng my words. I'm not saying go on a tunneling spree. I'm saying have the confidence to make a case on anyone and pursue that case until you find that person town or someone else more scummy I agree that we should have confidence when pursuing a case. Not sure what that has to do with Dan's original statement that it's hard to find scum d1. He didn't say it was necessary to lynch a lurker, he said it can end up being a necessity, which seems reasonable. Do you agree that it can end up being a necessity? | ||
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On October 25 2012 13:33 debears wrote: Why are you so focused on lynching a lurker over a scumread right now imo lurker lynches are last resorts to scumreads. If a lurker has a scumread, that's a bonus. Why do you keep pressing this "artificial confidence" thing when newbie games are notorious for lurking (usually caused by fear/lack of confidence) and lack of confidence? Please point out where I've said that we should lynch a lurker over a scum read. I'm all for helping newbies be more confident in pursuing their cases, but it has nothing to do with "we can get a scum read d1!". That's "artificial confidence" and doesn't make sense. I'm completely open to a reasonable argument where it does make sense though. | ||
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On October 25 2012 13:45 debears wrote: That is the statement I'm talking about. Am i missing something here? Can someone help me out? You don't understand having confidence to pusb d1 scum reads over lurkers? What do scum want? Easy lynchs. Who are easy lynches? Lurkers. FOS Rad The statement you bolded is out of context without including the next sentence: "We should do whatever we think is best at that point, not necessarily 1 thing or the other." You're pushing for "have confidence, the scum will show" while I'm pushing for "find the scum, if you're confident push it, otherwise we should lynch lurker". That stance seems completely reasonable to me. Does it not to you? | ||
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On October 25 2012 13:48 debears wrote: Actually, that's a scumslip ##Vote Rad So you FOS dan for no reason, and when I try to make sense of your reasoning giving you plenty of chances to clear it up, you fos me, and then claim I scumslipped and vote me? FOS debears | ||
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On October 25 2012 14:05 da0ud wrote: I do agree with you on this one. That makes no point lynching a lurker over a clear scum read. Even though I am not sure we will have very clear reads on day1. Please re-read the post he's quoting me on there. When you put it all in context, it should make sense to you what I meant (along with my other posts before it). Let me know if my point isn't clear there and I'll try to make it more understandable. To me it seems like he's trying to push out an obvious statement that people will agree with in order to cover up what I really meant. | ||
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On October 25 2012 15:30 Djodref wrote: I'm not saying that you should be overconfident in your reads, I'm saying that you should be confident in your ability to find scum. To answer to daoud, I have faith in the town to find the scum and we should play this game with this mentality. Regarding the lurking, it is a bad strategy for the mafia to lurk (even worse for the town by the way) because we can use a policy lynch against a lurker. But It's a possibility I would like to consider later in the day. Djo, I'm just not following your argument here. You still haven't replied to my original questions for you. Here's what you originally said: On October 25 2012 12:58 Djodref wrote: I don't think it's going to be difficult to find a scum D1. It's better for us to be confident about this because I think it's quite easy to reveal scum newbies when you put pressure on them. Plus, if you are town and you are not confident, people are going to feel it through your posts and are going to become suspicious about you. We have to be assertive and for this, we have to be confident in our ability to find scum. I know it looks difficult at first but don't forget that scum players are likely to be as inexperienced as you in this game. Now you're saying that we should have confidence in our ability to find scum, but that has never been an issue on the table. I don't remember anyone saying "onoes d1 is too hard we should just lynch a lurker" or anything even close to that. That's when you should say "have confidence, we can do it!" Instead, someone pointed out that we probably won't find a scum unless they slip (which is probably true) but he never said we shouldn't try, and I haven't said that either. All of town has faith that we'll find the scum. Why play the game if you don't? Not sure why you threw that in there except to look like town... | ||
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On October 25 2012 16:21 debears wrote: Read the line in red again "I don't understand what's good about having confidence in pushing for a d1 scum lynch instead of lynching a lurker......How in the fuck is that not a scum tell. Why in the hell would a townie say that???????? And Rad, the sentence after has no affect on the scumminess of that statement at all. You just said that you did no see reason in pushing a d1 scum lynch over a lurker. Now, if the following sentence had said "If there is no good candidate for a scum lynch, then we should lynch a lurker", it would make sense...You didn't bring up that scenario. You just said whatever is best for town in that scenario. Well, the best thing for town in that scenario is a scum lynch....duh. Obvious contradiction? Let's think of the benefits of pushing a d1 scum lynch 1) We lynch a scum 2) refer to 1) 3) We scramble the scum team and make them make a decision on who to vote Case coming up on rad My point, which is completely consistent with what I've said time and time again in this thread, and which is clarified in the sentence after the one you bolded red, is that I see no good logical reason to "have confidence" that we'll necessarily find a scum on d1. If we find a scum on d1, wonderful! I think we should definitely try our hardest to, and if you have a good read on someone, naturally you should be confident and follow through. If we don't, and we have no better option, then lynch a lurker. I also totally get pushing newbies to "be more confident" but both you and djo were pushing this confidence theme as if suddenly just being confident will make town get a lynch on d1. This seemed extremely suspicious to me and is why I started asking questions. To summarize: "GO TEAM! BE CONFIDENT!" - I get, though this isn't what you two were talking about at first "Finding a scum d1 will be easy! All you have to do is be confident!" - makes absolutely no sense to me On October 25 2012 10:26 debears wrote: What are you saying here exactly? Policy lynches are by no means a necessity. If we are confident and push reads, like dp did last game, then the scum will show. Why do you lack the confidence of catching scum d1? FOS dandel Oh, that easy is it? AND a FOS just because "he's not confident"? On October 25 2012 12:58 Djodref wrote: I don't think it's going to be difficult to find a scum D1. It's better for us to be confident about this because I think it's quite easy to reveal scum newbies when you put pressure on them. Plus, if you are town and you are not confident, people are going to feel it through your posts and are going to become suspicious about you. We have to be assertive and for this, we have to be confident in our ability to find scum. I know it looks difficult at first but don't forget that scum players are likely to be as inexperienced as you in this game. Oh, that easy is it? Now, the one thing I can't really wrap my head around is if both debears and djo are mafia, why would they be pushing this confidence thing to help save a lurker? Reasons that make sense to me: 1. Maybe that's the plan. 1 of the mafia sit back and lurk (maybe they're new and scared, or some other reason) while debears and djo stay really active. If they can look town enough AND prevent a lurker lynch, perfect! 2. Maybe getting people hyped for a d1 lynch that isn't a lurker is a good strategy? If they can get town to lynch another town, that's even better than a pure lurker, because then on the next day we'll be going "HMM that guy's still lurking, we've got to do something about that." (assuming multiple lurkers, at which point mafia lurker comes out of hiding a bit, or likely at the end of d1 before we start to think about this) Ok, off to respond to debear's "case" against me. I'm going to have to stay fairly inactive throughout the day until tonight though, as per the reasons I stated previously (work work...) | ||
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On October 25 2012 16:46 debears wrote: Here Rad comes into the thread, unsure on something like lurker policy, which is pretty obvious if you've seen a TL mafia game, which he stated he has. I read some of the last newbie mafia game. Other than that, and reading a couple guides, I have absolutely no mafia experience. You say it's "pretty obvious" but I hadn't put 1 moment of thought into it until Dan asked. I just thought about it briefly and threw out what seemed reasonable to me. I actually had no idea that this might turn into some huge debate or that my answer was anything more than just something to get us talking about something. Coincidentally, now that I know it's important, I agree with my original thought on the matter. On October 25 2012 16:46 debears wrote: He goes and defends another player over a simple question that I asked that player when that player hasn't responded first. Mafia tend to due this since they KNOW someone is town. What's a better way to get townie points? Then the part on what confidence has to do with any d1 lynch scenario. WHAT D1 LYNCH IS BASED ON SUCH HARD EVIDENCE THAT YOU CAN BE COMPLETELY CONFIDENT ON IT AS TOWN? None. It takes fucking balls to stand up with your accusations, even in the chance that they might be wrong. You said to Dan "Policy lynches are by no means a necessity.", but that was in response to Dan saying "That is why policy lynches day 1 can end up being a necessity." To me, not as a mafia player, but as a reasonable person, this screams bs. You twisted his words into something most people would agree with, even though most people would probably agree with his original statement. 1. Policy lynches on day 1 can end up being a necessity. 2. Policy lynches are by no means a necessity. Both are true statements, but because yours was in response to his, you make yourself come off as the "winner" here, even though your statement actually had nothing to do with his. This was really sketchy to me. Then, you suddenly got really confusing: On October 25 2012 11:39 debears wrote: I might be. But, consider this. How did that slip from kush come about? Darthpunks heavy pressure.....duh. policy lynches, on the other hand, are usually caused by passivity or something like a claim. Besides, its fairly easy to discuss policy lynches. Its not easy to be confident. I learned my mistake last game. I didn't stick to a read til the SDM case. I basically said screw it and went with it. Where did that confidence get me? You never answered my question to this. What does your previous confidence have to do with any potential scenario for a d1 lynch I'll answer this for you. Your previous confidence has nothing to do with a d1 lynch in this game and just clogs up the thread with confusing garbage. I really have stuff I need to be doing, so I'm going to try to make my answers to your case quicker from here on. If anyone is unsatisfied with any explanation I give, please point it out specifically and I'll try to get a chance to respond in greater detail. On October 25 2012 16:46 debears wrote: Yet again, he talks of scum reads like they are 100% foolproof. That is wrong. The best townies on TL are wrong on cases all the time. Don't give me that, we must make sure he's 100% scum before voting, bullshit. No way. Cases don't start that way. Lynches don't start that way. I never once said I'll only vote on a scum if I'm 100% sure. I'm not sure if 100% is even possible. Of course I'll vote on someone I'm not 100% sure of if the case for them convinces me enough and/or I feel that is the right move to make. On October 25 2012 16:46 debears wrote: Now he makes up some bullshit statement that my lynch of SDM had nothing to do with confidence. Really? I was at threat of being lynched. And instead of fighting for not being lynched, I sacked myself and went all out on the most townie looking player at that point (at least in my eyes). Do you really think that doesn't take any confidence? And how are you suddenly an expert on last game when you didn't even know what I was refering to with my SDM case before??????? Your previous game doesn't matter here except for having additional "meta" information on how you play the game. Your confidence there has nothing to do with finding a scum here, IMO. I feel like you talking about your previous game and how much your confidence helped you is just clouding up discussion here. I don't feel like I'm an expert of your last game because I only watched a bit of it (3-4 days worth I guess? meaning real days, not mafia days, so like 2 mafia days and 2 mafia nights at most) On October 25 2012 16:46 debears wrote: So here he wants newbies to suddenly hide in their holes, citing what has been previously said on confidence as "artificial". This is a forced argument. He ignores the fact that confidence = increased posting and scumhunting. Not sure why you're saying I want newbies to hide in their holes. I didn't say or suggest that. When you say confidence, I read it literally. I do not equate it to increased posting and scumhunting. If confidence is some term in this game that really means increased posting and scumhunting, then we've been arguing about different things. I feel like it's "artificial confidence" to just straight up say "we can get a scum on d1!" Instead, I think we should try to find a scum on d1, and IF at that point we're confident in a case, we can vote for it then. That's the point where I think confidence matters, not before. On October 25 2012 16:46 debears wrote: Wow. Isn't this OMGUS? I've tried explaining how confidence = increased posting and scumreads. And then how increased posting = less room for mafia to hide. He doesn't get simple logic like that????? Then he tries to play it off like I'm doing something wrong. "I give you plenty of chances to clear it up". Last time I checked, I'm the one wanting you to clear your view up. And a weak FOS to back it. To be honest, I considered FOSing you minutes before you FOS'd me, but I wasn't sure if that would be appropriate. I felt pushed to do it after reading more from you and the fact that you suddenly were voting for me. So I guess in a sense I OMGUS'd you, but it was more like straw that broke the camel's back than "OMG why is this guy voting for me". I said I gave you plenty of chances to clear it up because I asked you questions that you never answered, or at best side stepped. You weren't the one wanting me to clear up my view point until I put pressure on you. That to me seems scummy. On October 25 2012 16:46 debears wrote: So now you're trying to discredit my statements instead of accurately explaining your own. "he's trying to put up an obvious statement to cover up what I really meant". I'm not covering up anything. I'm showing everyone an obvious scumslip that you said. It's a contradicting statment in a mafia-oriented way. See my post to da0ud about it. Your defense of my scumread on you is that "the context backs it up". Bullshit. bullshit. bullshit. I feel context DOES matter. My statement makes sense when you put it next to the rest of the context, meaning my previous posts and even the sentences around it. My stance is clear. If you take the statement out of context, it sounds like a scumslip. If you take it in context, it has clear meaning. I have explained it before and will explain it again if someone requests. On October 25 2012 16:46 debears wrote: Ah. Now you're restating what you said. Your best defense is that I'm trying to make it seem like you said "I don't understand what's good about having confidence in pushing for a d1 scum lynch instead of lynching a lurker" Finally, my final part of my case is the lack of scumhunting that Rad has actually done. His sole focus is on me and "artificail confidence". His only scumhunting is a weak FOS on me. And he is more concerned on defending himself than finding scum. Rad you are pretty damn scummy in my eyes. My vote will stand with you unless I see a person who is more scummy. I've been scumhunting both you and djo. The fact that you point out that I've just been scumhunting you seems very suspicious of you. That's a clear lie. All you have to do is read my previous posts and see that I was putting the exact same pressure on djo. In fact, in my mind, you both seemed like you were working together, which suggested you were both mafia to me. The fact that this is your final point should scream to everyone that you are BS because I absolutely, 100%, clearly was going after djo as well (and for the same "confidence" thing). Ok, I'll try to respond lightly for the next 6 or so hours but probably cannot do a huge post like this any more until later tonight. | ||
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On October 26 2012 00:48 debears wrote: Ok. So Rad now thinks Djo and I are a scumteam Ok boys. This is bullshit. Let me explain why 1) This is an association case. They are dogshit d1 without any information 2) This is a case built on WIFOM. How in the fuck do you know what scum would or wouldn't do? You can't think like that. Djo did that shit last game to me and it pissed me the fuck off. I never said we are lynching a non lurker no matter what. I want to push cases, and if we have something good, then we lynch that person. Lurkers are a last resort. There are most likely 3 mafia. A lynch wasted on a lurker is suboptimal as town if there are people posting some really scummy things. Right now, you are scummy as shit. And this post by you doesn't help. I'm pissed when someone tries to build a pure WIFOM case, which you have done, let alone a WIFOM ASSOCIATION CASE EARLY D1. This guy be scum yo If I'm making scum reads based on bad logic, that would make me a bad player. No worries though, I don't think I'm a good or bad player yet, because this is my first game. You both just seemed to be trying to make the same bad "confidence" point, together in unison. I realize that there are other cases, such as "djo sees debears making a terrible point but it would be best for him to go along with it", in which case djo is mafia and you are town. Of course there are other cases. I haven't done anything except point out that both you and djo are looking scummy to me. I don't know if I'd actually vote for either of you at this point. I don't believe you're necessarily a scumteam, I'm just saying that was my initial take and it made sense to me. | ||
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2) This is a case built on WIFOM. How in the fuck do you know what scum would or wouldn't do? You can't think like that. Djo did that shit last game to me and it pissed me the fuck off. Just wanted to point that out as without this, it's not clear why I'm making the statement. | ||
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On October 26 2012 01:14 debears wrote: Are you scumhunting us because we are scummy individually, or because you think we are a scumteam? Individually, but since you were both giving the same extremely odd (IMO) stance on confidence, it made me wonder... | ||
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On October 26 2012 01:21 debears wrote: Ok. But what individually makes us stand out as scum? I'm going to reread the thread a couple of times tonight and figure this all out. ##Unvote This is some of what I've got from you and/or djo 1. Pushed the confidence theme hard, as if to make it seem like we NEED to have a scum lynch d1 rather than a policy lurker lynch. 2. Acted overconfident as if it was easy to make a scum read on d1 (is it? doesn't seem like it, and that's not due to lack of confidence, it's due to lack of information). 3. Twisted people's statements, either responding with something that had nothing to do with the original statement, or focusing heavily on a particular statement as if to give it more importance than it really should have. All of these things feel scummy to me. | ||
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On October 26 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote: I'm still feeling bad for tunneling until death last game  I even didn't have the balls to state that I had changed my mind about you at the end. As I feel some townie vibes from you in this game, I thought I could at least defend you this one time. debears <3 Also debears it's stuff like this (which he's done before in this thread, if I remember correctly) that just make me raise an eyebrow and give thoughts that you're both scum. He's so confident you're town already?! Because you're being super active and aggressive? Maybe I'm just paranoid but I'm finding it really hard to believe anyone is town so far. @Djo, you're coming across, to me at least, as very "happy go lucky". Like, you've figured it all out as town last newbie game, and you're back now as town again but 100% more confident and ready to take down scum! Let's do this my friend debears, who is clearly also town! That's the vibe I'm getting from you and it feels really fake. | ||
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On October 26 2012 01:36 debears wrote: @Rad Ah alright. One more question. Are 1,2 and 3 necessarily only mafia motivated? I don't see it. 1) Town - Create an ideal town atmosphere Mafia - Appear to be a town doing so 2) Town - Try to lead the town by being a figure who knows what he's doing Mafia - Try to be town doing that 3) Town - Confirmation Bias Mafia - Mafia Bias???? (lol idk what to call it) I'm going to reread the thread tonight. I do feel that it my case has confirmation bias at this point. No one has tried to actually break up the argument or put any real input into it. Mafia tend to love letting two townies go at it and not interfering. I'll reconsider my judgment Fair enough, for #1 and #2, you could have just been overconfident for real, so I'll try to avoid it as a read one way or the other (for now, I'll look back over it again later). For #3 though, I dunno, it's really hard to put a town spin on it. Like I said, I don't feel like I'm convinced enough to vote you or djo for it right now, but it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. | ||
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On October 26 2012 08:13 Djodref wrote: dandel has a stance about policy lynching and I have another one. We both have arguments to support our stances, his are good and mine are good (I would say that they are better). I guess it's our different experience which is really defining our opinion about it. I can't think of any good reason a townie would have to be completely unopen to changing their opinion on something regardless of the arguments presented. Worst case scenario for a townie is you're just not convinced by the argument so you keep your original opinion, then someone's not happy that they couldn't convince you. Seems like a scummy stance. The scummy reasoning would go something like "I need to be consistent, and if someone changes my opinion on something, I'll look inconsistent, so I'm going to just make it clear that I'm not going to change my mind on this so it's dropped." That's what you sound like with that statement djo. | ||
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On October 26 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote: @Rad I don't care, it's an argument about policy lynch. I don't even understand why you are putting such an interest in this. I'm not saying that I'm not going to change my mind about a player or a lynch or something important... What do you think about Inig's posts by the way ? You said "I won't change my opinion." I pointed out that I can't think of any good reason a townie would be opposed to changing their opinion if an argument is good. It sounds like a scummy sort of move, for the reasons I laid out. That's why I have an interest in it, because if you're a townie it doesn't add up, thus you come across as scum. I'm completely open to some reasonable argument for why a townie would ever have that sort of mind set. I don't know why you're so interested in getting people's opinions on inig's post. It seems like you're just trying to divert attention. I would prefer that you finalized a subject before jumping to the next, otherwise it seems like dodging. Regardless, I'll answer your question. I don't like that he won't have much time until sunday-monday. That's a lot of lurking and I don't feel comfortable with it. I feel like it puts him on the list of people to be suspicious about, but not currently something I'm too concerned about. If it comes down to it and we decide to policy lynch, he'd be on the list if he stays mostly inactive. I do not get a scum or town read from him yet, he's pretty neutral to me at the moment. | ||
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On October 26 2012 09:20 Djodref wrote: From what exactly am I trying to divert attention ? On October 26 2012 08:25 Djodref wrote: @Alsn I would expect more from you than an half-assed FoS on me  What do you think about Inig ? You get FoS'd, and then try to discredit it just by claiming it's half-assed instead of mounting an argument against it. That's either scummy play, or useless townie play. You pick. Then, without being of any use to town, you divert attention to Inig. On October 26 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote: @Rad I don't care, it's an argument about policy lynch. I don't even understand why you are putting such an interest in this. I'm not saying that I'm not going to change my mind about a player or a lynch or something important... What do you think about Inig's posts by the way ? "I don't care" isn't a good argument. It's either a scummy response, or again, a useless townie response. You don't respond directly to my concerns (if you were town, you should want to clarify things for other town members), but instead, divert to Inig. Not looking good Djo. | ||
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On October 26 2012 09:23 Djodref wrote: @Rad by the way, His argument is good by my argument is better. Not going to change my mind. Are you satisfied ? It doesn't matter how you want to word it now. What matters is your statement from before and the fact that it wouldn't make any sense coming from a townie. As I've already pointed out, the floor is open to you to make some sense of it and clear this up. | ||
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No they haven't been addressed. Please see my concerns: On October 26 2012 08:22 Rad wrote: I can't think of any good reason a townie would have to be completely unopen to changing their opinion on something regardless of the arguments presented. Worst case scenario for a townie is you're just not convinced by the argument so you keep your original opinion, then someone's not happy that they couldn't convince you. Seems like a scummy stance. The scummy reasoning would go something like "I need to be consistent, and if someone changes my opinion on something, I'll look inconsistent, so I'm going to just make it clear that I'm not going to change my mind on this so it's dropped." That's what you sound like with that statement djo. And the restating of my concerns: On October 26 2012 08:43 Rad wrote: You said "I won't change my opinion." I pointed out that I can't think of any good reason a townie would be opposed to changing their opinion if an argument is good. It sounds like a scummy sort of move, for the reasons I laid out. That's why I have an interest in it, because if you're a townie it doesn't add up, thus you come across as scum. I'm completely open to some reasonable argument for why a townie would ever have that sort of mind set. | ||
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On October 26 2012 09:49 Clarity_nl wrote: Wait why are you talking about Alsn now? He's responding to my post 2 above his where I quoted Alsn and his response to Alsn. | ||
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On October 26 2012 09:45 Djodref wrote: @Rad I know Alsn town's play and I find him not fitting his meta. I intend to get some strong response to my post. I'm provoking him on purpose. The more useful move there, for town, is to clear your name by shutting down his FoS. Shrugging it off as half-assed doesn't do that. If anything, it looks like you had no defense, which makes you look worse. We have a claim from Alsn, and nothing from you. Why would anyone want to side with you if you have no defense? If you're town, help the rest of town out by confronting the issue rather than trying out some secretive trap that only makes sense to you. | ||
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What did you not understand in this post ? On October 26 2012 09:41 Rad wrote: It doesn't matter how you want to word it now. What matters is your statement from before and the fact that it wouldn't make any sense coming from a townie. As I've already pointed out, the floor is open to you to make some sense of it and clear this up. | ||
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On October 26 2012 10:15 Djodref wrote: Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post. I know he is totally able to come at me with something more consistent if he really thinks I'm scum. Right now, I think his reasons are poor and I'm more interested in his opinion about Ini. This seems extremely suspicious to me, like scumslip suspicious, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe someone else can jump in on it? I'll think about it more in the meantime... | ||
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On October 26 2012 10:26 Djodref wrote: I understand that you have made up your mind. I'm done discussing this with you, we are both losing time... Done discussing? You mean you're not going to answer the questions I've tried to give you a chance to answer over and over? Yeah, you sound reeeeeally scummy at this point. FoS Djodref | ||
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On October 26 2012 10:36 Djodref wrote: @Cheese I would appreciate you to quote my entire posts instead of cherry-picking some stuff like you did. I was responding to sylver saying that I was not looking so clean. My priority is to find scum first and defend myself in a second time. I'm planning to write a case on Inig by the way. If you ARE town, by not answering any of the questions surrounding you, you're wasting all of town's time. Answer our questions, don't just say "I don't care" or shrug it off. Town cares about your answers. If you can prove yourself to be town by clearing up confusion surrounding you, we can focus other people instead! | ||
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On October 26 2012 12:18 debears wrote: @Djo Do you believe that Inig fits the category of lurker? His filter is less than a page. Djo, why would Alsn be able to come up with something consistent if he thought you were scum? This sounds like scum with a guilty conscience. Scum know they are guilty. Their posts are made with the intention to mislead town, meaning that they know that traces of their deception are in their own posts. If you were townie, you would feel that your filter is not filled with scummy things, since you would be honest and sincere. This post definitely does not give that read of honesty. @debears I got a scummy read from that line as well as the previous one: "Honestly, I don't really care if Alsn has a FoS on me if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post." I think you're spot on on your analysis with that. It's very close to what I was thinking but wasn't sure how exactly to say it. I think my more recent discussions with Djo might help convince you further. Djo, if you're town, you don't have much chance left to clear your name. Time to stop avoiding the controversies around you and clear things up. | ||
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On October 26 2012 12:42 debears wrote: ebwop The line before that you mention "I don't care if Alsn has a FOS on me". I don't read scummy in that line. A town is just as likely to say that as scum It's the bolded part that I'm talking about. "if it is for the reasons he has stated in his post" I mentioned this in another post that it seems scummy to me but I can't quite put my finger on it. In particular the "if" aspect is bothering me. Might be a stretch but I read those 2 lines and was like... "wait what??" I feel like if anyone came at me with a argument about why I'm suspicious, I would at the very least attempt to shut it down regardless of how dumb I thought the reasons were. He's saying the opposite, that he would defend himself if the reasons were better (according to him) but since they're not he just doesn't care. As a town, one should clear their name at all costs yes? For all he knows, Alsn's argument could help convince others to vote him, and if he's town, not defending himself would be stupid. | ||
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On October 26 2012 13:15 Djodref wrote: @Rad For meta reasons, I'm pretty suspicious of Alsn at the moment. I wonder if his FoS on me was faked or not. By the way, could you tell me which part of his FoS post has convinced that I was scummy, if there is one ? Can you clarify the bolded part please? Are you asking "which part of his FoS convinced you that I was scummy" or "which part of the FoS was trying to convince that I was scummy" or something else? I don't understand how you worded that sentence. I'm sure it was just a typo, but I need clarification before I can respond. | ||
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On October 26 2012 13:29 Djodref wrote: which part of his FoS convinced you that I was scummy ? Thank you The content of his FoS isn't really all that important here, to me at least. The fact that you claimed it was a half-assed FoS, though, is a major reason you're suspicious to me. He made claims, you didn't shut them down. If it's so half-assed and the argument is bad, shut it down already. If it's sooo bad you can't even respond to it because it doesn't make sense in the first place, you could point that out. If it's just "bad" and you don't feel it's worth responding to, you're leaving yourself open to whatever decision we want to make in Alsn's case vs Djo's non-case. Just to answer your question though, I feel like he made an interesting connection (I would prefer if you want to dispute these, you take it up with him, as it's his case): You criticize me for supporting lurker policy lynch, yet you're so focused on Inig due to his lurking (your recent case on Inig isn't helping your case against this either) I don't know what slip he was talking about. I'll have to look into that at some point. Honestly I think both debears's and my own points against you are far more solid, but you've avoided answering my questions for a while now. You have some catching up to do if you want to convince me. | ||
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On October 26 2012 13:50 Djodref wrote: @Rad I'm focused on Inig for his total lack of scumhunting and his weird attempt to gain town cred. Could you sum up for me the main questions I have to answer to ? I'll try my best to answer them. Djo, I already did that for you earlier today. Why aren't you going the extra mile to prove your innocence? On October 26 2012 09:45 Djodref wrote: @Rad I know Alsn town's play and I find him not fitting his meta. I intend to get some strong response to my post. I'm provoking him on purpose. Regarding your concerns about me not changing my mind, have they been addressed or not ? On October 26 2012 09:53 Rad wrote: @Djodref No they haven't been addressed. Please see my concerns: And the restating of my concerns: | ||
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On October 26 2012 14:21 Djodref wrote: @Rad So your main concern about me was I said that I wouldn't change my mind ? Do you have other concerns ? Did you understand I was only speaking about a particular point (agreeing that a strict lurker policy should be part of our strategy) ? My original concerns came from the "confidence" ordeal from before. As I found with debears, that can turn out to be a huge ordeal and I'll address it again if I feel the need to. My concerns about your unwillingness to change your stance on something regardless of the arguments provided are still there. To me, as I've stated, this feels like a scummy perspective. I can't see a good reason for a townie to not be open to changing their opinions on something based on further arguments. "No no no not going to budge on this!" feels scummy. "Let me hear your points, ok, I disagree and here's why" feels townie. It was the way you handled the questions. It doesn't matter that it was about just a particular point, or even if that point mattered in the end, but that you were so specific about never changing your opinion on it regardless of the arguments provided. It didn't feel like a townie move, so I can only suspect scum, but furthermore, you've dodged my questions until now. Why? If you can so simply answer them now, why didn't you do it before? You clearly saw them, acknowledged them, but didn't answer them. Instead, you said you were done with me. Going to have to look over all this in more depth tomorrow as I'm getting tired and need to wind down. | ||
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I literally just finished catching up, refreshed the page once, and there was your post mentioning me not being around! Anyway, I'm not going to be able to be that active today until around 6pm (2h before lynch), at which point I will try to jump in and be useful. If anyone has questions for me in the meantime, I will try my hardest to answer them, but I cannot go into great depth during the day like I can at night (I'm EST so right now is work work...). Questions that only require short answers are ideal for me right now. Interested to see what kush brings to the table. | ||
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debears - still not convinced town but everyone else seems so convinced that I have to question my own instincts. Due to him being super active and creating good discussion I feel ok letting him stick around for now. Also I have no major problems with him since the confidence ordeal. I have my eye on him but would not be surprised if he was actually town because of his consistent contributions to discussion. Alsn - probably worth keep around due to his real life reasons for not being as active, which are supposed to change after his test. Mr. Cheesecake - maybe my highest town read, which is why I'm going to look more closely into him as soon as I can (my town read for isn't based on anything other than a "feeling" I get from reading his posts, so I'm going to dig into him more to confirm or reject those initial thoughts) sylverfyre - feels like he's scrambling now but i get a null read from him. I need to look more into his case vs djo and any cases against him. Djodref - still feels super scummy. Even though he's gone back and answered a lot of questions, I don't know why he didn't earlier. Still hasn't discussed the idea of "doesn't make sense that a townie would be completely against changing their mind on something if the argument to do so was good enough", instead, he just explained why he didn't want to change his mind on the particular topic. I do like that he did finally address multiple concerns though, and like that he's creating good discussion. imcasey - complete lurker, nothing to say da0ud - looks like people are starting to bandwagon on him but I'll need to look into it more and consider arguments when I get a chance. He's a null read to me. kushm4sta - null so far, not enough content / not enough time to think about what he has put out there so far Dandel lon - like da0ud, null for me, I need to look into him more Inigmaticalism - I'm most confused about him, moreso than any Roco69 - I'm totally baffled by him so far and wouldn't feel bad about voting for him. Either scum or useless townie. I'm leaning towards useless townie and that given up on us. Ok seriously I'm going to go work now......... | ||
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Inigmaticalism, I'm voting you to force you into changing your vote on imcasey. I want to see who you pick. I feel like your real vote will be extremely telling. If you change your vote, I may or may not change mine, but I'm not satisfied with you sticking your vote on imcasey at this point. He hasn't said one thing and will likely be modkilled. If he comes in last second without any real input, he's obviously scum (or useless townie of course). | ||
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I feel like your safest vote to stay alive is da0uds. If you want to stay alive, you vote him. Alternatively though, you may know that and realize if you vote da0uds you look bad. Here are some interesting things about Inig: 1. He claimed vanilla townie in the past. 2. He was forced to make a vote here and he did not choose da0uds. Instead he chose Dan. Dan currently has no chance of being lynched today unless something crazy comes up, so the vote on Dan was worthless. 3. If he is indeed vanilla townie, and he does not quite trust his current reads on da0ud and dan, it would be the best town play to a) keep himself alive if possible (change vote from imcasey) and b) let others who are more well informed make the more educated vote. Voting for da0uds when he's really uncertain is just taking a chance, and da0uds is currently in second place to be lynched today, so there's a lot of pressure on Inig's vote (if he's town). I had a null read on him before but it was extremely confusing one way or the other. With this I'm leaning townie for Inig. Anyone want to jump in and help analyze his decision here? I'm open to whatever thoughts people have and please help me if I'm making a WIFOM argument here. | ||
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Going through filters now. Done kush and da0ud. Leaning da0ud so far. Will continue and report back in a few. | ||
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I get a super confused feel from inig, but not a scummy feel. I feel like he just doesn't know how he's supposed to act and he's very open about it. He lays out his thoughts for everyone to read. I feel like we should do the same with him as we're doing with djo, give him a chance to talk more and he should slip if he's scum. da0ud seems much less likely to slip if he's scum. He's more concise and not emotional. Furthermore, so far in this game da0ud is only active at times opposite now (no idea about his other games). I don't see any posts in his filter around this time (7am HK). Is it likely he won't be around to discuss lynches? I feel that might be an important consideration here as inig would be around for lynches in the future (or so he claims). | ||
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On October 27 2012 08:14 debears wrote: @djo Wth? You now find inig scummy again? did you miss-read dan's post at djo's post? because I did at first... and I don't see where djo has talked about inig recently. | ||
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##Vote da0ud Guys, what do we do if roco or imcasey come in last second and vote? Should we try to change our vote to them ASAP or let it slide and talk about it after? | ||
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On October 27 2012 08:22 Djodref wrote: @Rad lol If we lynch daoud for these reasons, it would be the weakest reasons ever given to justify a lynch... It was a concern, Djo, not a defining reason. | ||
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On October 27 2012 08:21 Rad wrote: I'm going to have to go with da0ud for the reasons I listed previously. ##Vote da0ud Guys, what do we do if roco or imcasey come in last second and vote? Should we try to change our vote to them ASAP or let it slide and talk about it after? EBWOP: also want to say my vote is coming from a) kush's case, b) the fact that I feel like the case against inig isn't strong, and c) just my general feelings from reading through the 4 filters (kush, debears, inig, da0ud) | ||
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On October 27 2012 08:30 Djodref wrote: Seriously if Roco or imcasey are coming, we should just lynch them Shouldn't we let them get modkilled if they do nothing at this point? If they show up to vote, what do you think we should do? | ||
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Anyone around atm? Let's try to spark up some conversation?! This feels completely dead compared to the last 2 nights. I'll give some initial thoughts: If inig is found to be scum at some point: 1. debears confirmed town - because he pushed so hard, i feel this has to be the case. If inig isn't scum, I don't think it says anything about debears one way or the other. 2. djo confirmed town? - perhaps, I say this because djo was one of the first people I remember trying to put up a case on inig, before inig was considered suspicious at all. It doesn't make sense (to me) for scum to bus another scum before there's any clear reason to. I say the above still thinking djo feels scummy at this point, so it's just a scenario of if we find inig to be confirmed scum, I feel like it would confirm him town. During the last hour before the lynch, djo was very indecisive and I don't know how to read that. At this point it's hard to view debears as anything other than town, but I don't consider him confirmed town yet. I do feel the urge to consider him town though. kush feels scummy after the lynch: I looked over some old content briefly, mostly kind of confused/depressed at what just happened so if I'm wrong here please let me know (I might have missed something). This was the scenario: for the case on da0ud: - first suspicion was by alsn - major case from nowhere by kush, he votes for da0ud - alsn agrees with kush and votes for da0ud I don't know kush's meta, and honestly it probably doesn't even matter here, but he was so quick for presenting a serious case on da0ud that in hindsight it feels scummy. Before, it just felt like "wow this guy must know what he's talking about," but now, just scummy. In hindsight, da0ud feels like the perfect target. Semi lurker, hasn't contributed too much, pretty much just like inig but isn't confusing, like he knows what his plan as scum is and is ready to stick to it. Because of that, it feels like scum made this happen rather than town made it happen and scum watched. Perhaps kush saw that and decided to run with it. I'm not convinced that kush is scum but so far he's the main one I glance at and raise an eyebrow to concerning this lynch. let me explain my vote: I voted for da0ud because kush's case was (to me) more convincing than anything against inig (debear's case, djo's case, + anything else I read). I think that might have to do with da0ud not being confusing along with kush's case not being confusing. debear's case on inig was not confusing either but inig himself is confusing. Maybe this threw me off. In hindsight, I think I should have done one of the following: 1. voted for no lynch. I wasn't completely convinced with kush's case, but I was more convinced with with it than the case against inig. If I'm not convinced enough, perhaps I should vote no lynch. I do not know what having a no lynch on d1 means for town (maybe it doesn't help at all?) so choosing this would have been really difficult for me. 2. voted for a lurker. As I said before, I think if we don't have a solid scum read, we should vote lurker. We had a total lurker that we could have voted for and 2 not-so-amazing scum reads. I wasn't sure exactly what would be best here and felt compelled to vote for one or the other. Because of that, I went with what I thought was the better case, but perhaps I should have stuck to my initial thoughts. Up until the lynch time, the only people I really felt I had any sort of scummy read on were debears, djo, and sylver. Everyone else, for me, was null or town vibes. I'm still not sure at this point if inig is scum. Nothing has changed there for me except how crazy it was that da0ud was at 2 votes then suddenly at 7. I need to hear more from inig, his thoughts on all this, I think he should be pressured hard over the next 24h, etc. I want inig to prove his innocence and I want it to make complete sense this time. sylverfyre I just want to state that I feel this guy's actions are completely questionable. If kush died right now and flipped town, I'd have to look at sylver next (even before Alsn I think). He's had a ton of sheeping and was (I think) the 3rd person to jump on da0ud bandwagon (4th being me if I remember correctly). He's the kind of scum I would imagine was waiting for the right opportunity to jump on a townie bandwagon. If he was scum, I'd be very likely to consider inig as scum because of his timing. His arguments are also very wishy washy, a little less confusing than inig's but along the same lines. FoS sylverfyre Final thoughts after re-reading my post Kush's super fast case against da0ud makes sense if inig might potentially be voted. He had 2 votes at that point, by da0ud and dan. Others votes were against imcasey, djo, and roco. It's hard to make a good case to vote imcasey and roco. It's especially hard to make a case for djo because we had been talking about him since the beginning, and he kept just asking questions and creating good conversation. It's easy to jump on da0ud though. He's an easy target like inig and dan were, but if inig is scum, kush would want to jump on the opportunity to frame someone else ASAP because every other vote was obviously going nowhere. FoS Kush | ||
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On October 27 2012 16:51 Djodref wrote: @ Rad Why are you nor FoSing Alsn ? He was also pushing for a daoud's lynch iirc... I found strange that you forgot him in your recap. It had to do with the order of things. Alsn was suspicious of da0ud (which seems reasonable considering how lurkey da0ud was being) before kush's case (doesn't mean they couldn't have been discussing it in the background, but then they have to be a scumteam). Kush comes out of nowhere and presents a case. This helps confirm Alsn's beliefs so he jumps on the bandwagon right away. The main problem I have with that is 2 votes for da0ud do nothing, and if no one jumps on their bandwagon, they both have to think of someone else to frame and then both have to make it happen quick (assuming in this case inig is the 3rd scum, which is why they'd be bandwagoning on da0ud in the first place). I didn't include him in my recap because I haven't gotten scummy vibes from him and wanted to make sure I at least had specific focus in what was a really long post by me. I do plan on looking into Alsn more. So far he is null to me, though after thinking it through a bit more above, with kush being so scummy looking right now, alsn looks much less so. Still, I need to read through his stuff more. | ||
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On October 28 2012 01:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Everyone What are your thoughts on this "scumtell". I really can't see it being one. I get Djo's point but not sure if I read it as a scumtell. I think it was worth bringing up as a pressure move though. We're all going to be reading kush's posts very carefully and looking for stuff like that. | ||
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Who's your biggest scum read besides djo? Let's say you're town. How did the da0ud lynch happen? Who looks suspicious to you in regards to that? Why do you think support for it ramped up so quickly? | ||
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On October 28 2012 02:53 kushm4sta wrote: How did the daoud lynch happen? Well he was asking for it number 1. We had no better lynch number 2. We had a pretty bad d1 with a lot of wasted talk about confidence and debear's dickmeasuring contest. I think what happened was the top 2 bandwagons were both town, so scum was just like LOL easy day. You know what sucks here is you came in late, so we never got your opinion on lurker policy lynch. Little late now but I assume, because of your actions, you're for lynching your biggest scum tell regardless of how solid you feel it is over a pure lurker? You've admitted you didn't think the case against da0ud was very good, just that it was better than the case against inig, so you chose a bad case over lurker lynch really quickly. Does anyone have any meta tells on this? | ||
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On October 28 2012 03:14 kushm4sta wrote: Scumreads other than djodref: sylverfire: a lot of words, very little content roco: why didn't this guy get modkilled... did he even vote? nacht: where's the scumreads? Are you reading d1 or what? roco is in the state of "to be replaced" I think | ||
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Whoa there ... Within 5 posts, you go from kush is slight scummy, to null, to slight town On October 28 2012 03:05 Alsn wrote: Okay, first things first. Da0ud was mislynched, the people who enabled him as a possible lynch target was kush and myself. Arguing about my own motivations is WIFOM hell so I won't go there. That leaves kush as someone I can scrutinise. I have difficulty accepting that kush preferring da0ud over Inig is somehow a scum tell. Truth be told the lynch targets we had available were all quite weak so he can hardly be blamed for preferring da0ud over someone else. However, two things do stand out to me. Like debears pointed out kush seems to be very selective in the way he argues meta. That in itself isn't necessarily a scum tell, meta reads have a tendency to be more "feel" than anything else. The thing I'm referring to with regards to his meta is his claim that he doesn't know debears meta. That's almost definitely a lie or at the very least some massive laziness, neither of which is very pro-town. The second point that I can agree can be seen as scummy about kush is that he presented his case against da0ud after I had called da0ud out for making very little sense. Scum using someone else's suspicions against another player is a very easy way to get a case to stick, especially in the situation we had where there was no real clear scum candidate for lynch. However, I would like to point out that I reacted to da0ud's Inig vote very quickly after he posted it. This means that it would be almost impossible for anyone, scum or no, to make an original case against da0ud. To me this means that we can't just jump on kush for using "my idea" to call out da0ud as scummy. I think we can all agree that da0ud was making very little sense at that point in the game and as such I think kush's actions towards da0ud is a null tell at best. I will look more closely into how kush acted towards other players however. If an argument can be made that preferring da0ud over Inig was actually scummy, then I'd be willing to see it as a scum tell, but with the information we have right now I just can't do that. I'm definitely suspicious about his attempts to discredit debears, so all in all I think kush is leaning towards slightly scummy. On October 28 2012 03:08 Alsn wrote: Of course as I'm posting, kush backtracks on his debears statements. I'm going to go ahead and assume him to be genuine for now, basically leaving me at ~null wrt kush. On October 28 2012 03:48 Alsn wrote: Fine then. I'll drop that part of my slight suspicions against you. Barring more information I probably consider you slight town at this point then. Please explain. | ||
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On October 11 2012 06:51 kushm4sta wrote: haha this cheesecake guy seems awesome... i wish i could in this game so badly On October 11 2012 06:52 kushm4sta wrote: /obs On October 16 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: can an obs replace? if not remove me from obs. also one of you better afk so I can replace. I love this cheesecake guy...but why did you have to bring up my fail TT You /obs and then drop /obs JUST in case you get the chance to replace someone. You've replaced someone. You're in! You can talk to mr. cheesecake now! Why haven't you said one thing to him or about him yet? | ||
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On October 28 2012 04:14 kushm4sta wrote: The only reason I would talk to someone is if they ask me a question or if I think they are scum. But you /obs'd, and then asked to be removed for the sole reason of wanting to play with mr. cheesecake. It makes no sense that you wouldn't at the very lease say something to him when you finally get the chance to play the game for the sole reason you wanted to play the game. | ||
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On October 28 2012 04:16 Rad wrote: But you /obs'd, and then asked to be removed for the sole reason of wanting to play with mr. cheesecake. It makes no sense that you wouldn't at the very lease say something to him when you finally get the chance to play the game for the sole reason you wanted to play the game. EBWOP: least* not lease | ||
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On October 28 2012 04:23 kushm4sta wrote: It was not for the SOLE reason of playing with mr cheesecake. And yes it makes perfect sense that I didn't say anything to him because I had nothing to say. I didn't want to clutter the thread with stuff that wasn't contributing. Also what would I say? Hey cheesecake I like your name still? It WAS the sole reason. You wanted to obs, then you backed out because you wanted to get a chance to play with mr cheesecake. What would you say? Anything to make him talk. He was being hilarious pre-game and you wanted more, so you dropped obs for the CHANCE to play with him. Why have absolutely no communication with him when that's the main reason you're in this game? Could it be because you're talking to him behind the scenes? FoS Mr. Cheesecake Double FoS Kush | ||
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On October 28 2012 04:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Is this a scumteam association case based on pre-game banter? How does pre-game stuff have any relevance to this at all? It's more "real" than the meta discussion that constantly get thrown around, and people seem to pay attention to the meta discussion like it's THE way to find scum. kush, the person, not tied to a role yet, thought you were awesome enough to drop obs for the CHANCE to play this game with you, and hasn't said a single thing to you since he got in. Does not make sense. Once it makes sense to me, I'll immediately drop it. I really want to see other people's thoughts on this. I'm willing to drop it if everyone else thinks I'm a WIFOM idiot. Totally fine with me. | ||
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On October 28 2012 04:23 kushm4sta wrote: It was not for the SOLE reason of playing with mr cheesecake. And yes it makes perfect sense that I didn't say anything to him because I had nothing to say. I didn't want to clutter the thread with stuff that wasn't contributing. Also what would I say? Hey cheesecake I like your name still? On October 28 2012 05:15 kushm4sta wrote: dont flame, my precious little dandelion | ||
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debears, kush, or dandel - can you link to the game where kush/debears were a scumteam please? Also really want inig's thoughts before end up night. Alsn, some input on stuff in general would be great from you too. | ||
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On October 28 2012 07:35 kushm4sta wrote: I want nachts thoughts most of all... he has been 100 percent useless so far. agree, forgot about him actually, really want some more input from him | ||
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Don't worry about roco, he didn't vote and is to be replaced ASAP. See the night 1 post where thrawn says this. | ||
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I'm going to look through it a bit, not really looking for anything in particular. What do you think about kush's claim? Do you think he's lying about not realizing he was on a scumteam with debears? | ||
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On October 28 2012 07:51 Dandel Ion wrote: Yah. They way they all cuddled up to each other in the postgame and stuff, it makes it really hard to believe for me. Ahh yeah, I see. On October 11 2012 00:31 kushm4sta wrote: lol @ debears coach @Kush, why wouldn't debears make a good coach? | ||
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On October 28 2012 08:22 Inigmaticalism wrote: @Rad As I said I am utterly wary about kush. And I already posted about him posting about debears pm and about his town knowledge assumption. Here is what I learned reading kush's filter. Until the most recent posts where he has given short descriptions on multiple people, kush has been clear and focused. Case on da0ud, nothing else, takes a stance on me and consistently, in his own words "soft defends" me. And since then has appeared fairly helpful but has mostly been defending himself. This is interesting though. Day1 he explains he does not want to lynch Djo, even though he thinks he looks scummy, giving room to see what he will do (and prods Djo to do so). After Djo appears wishy-washy in the lynch Djo becomes kush's next top scum read. Logical follow-through. And then this and then another post right after So once again focused. He says he will bring a case against Djo tonight, and I am interested in reading it combined with Mr CCs promised case. I thought kush was just throwing Djo out there but then found this last post I quoted. Conclusion: Kush is a strange new piece of food that Ive never tired before, and Im keeping it at arms length because I dont know if its poisonous or not. The only way to find out is to ask questions, but it seems kush it getting enough heat so Ill only join in if I find anything (besides what I have found) useful. It seems to me that if nothing drastic changes (day post doesnt change much, not really any new cases) kush will be lynched tomorrow based on the overall opinions in the thread. It is my goal for Day 2 to find at least 1 good scum case because I dont think a kush lynch is optimal right now because I feel I do not know enough, and frankly the recent cases against him arent very strong. spcifically @Rad: if you can explain what we could possibly gain from knowing kush was lying about not recognizing debears I would become more interested in the answer. Kush did pretty much talk to debears most on Day 1 after all. 2 things, inig. On the djo thing, I feel like it makes sense for kush (if scum) to center in on djo, because djo was the "scummy guy we didn't actually lynch but planned on in the future." In fact, if kush flips scum, I think that says a ton about djo. As for your question to me, I don't see a liar as useful to town. A liar is either scum, or a townie with a lot of potential to hurt town. If we catch kush in a lie, his credibility gets destroyed and if he is town, suddenly he's straight up useless. | ||
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If I die, I'd also say lynch kush. Second 2 are inig and mr cheese. I'm not clear on djo or alsn or sylver yet. Maybe i'd say from most scum to least, sylver, djo, alsn debears is my biggest town read. the new guy, forget his name, has pissed me off by lurking and/or being useless | ||
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I'm vigi. I shot kush. It came down to the very last minute before night was over, I really wasn't sure what to do and I just did it. I REALLY wanted more people there before night so I could make a more informed choice. I wanted people to confirm that my suspicions about the mr.cheese thing were good or terrible. All I had was dandel tell me he didn't really like the case, which is fine, but that's 1 person. I needed more. I expected debears to show up and yell at me if he thought it was ridiculous, but he didn't show up at all. Djo showed up minutes AFTER the end of night, even though in his filter he had been around before end of day in the past, then claimed he had just woke up (not necessarily untrue, but he had been awake in past days before then, and this seemed like an important night - for me at least, because I get to shoot or not shoot, and I'm still alive). Then kush's "lie" (which again, all I had to go on was dandel's support there) pushed me to just shoot him because I had no reason to believe him anymore. I couldn't understand what mafia motivations there might be behind him lying about debears, but the lie itself bugged the hell out of me, so that along with me just feeling he was super scummy in the first place just pushed and pushed. I was pretty sure I was going to be killed last night. Sylver being killed made me double face palm. Like I'm doing such a terrible job that mafia didn't want to kill me, but instead, wanted to kill someone who I thought had reasonable lynching potential (basically same case as inig + lots of sheeping). I remove my FoS on cheese. He was my top town read, and then i was like HEY WTF KUSH and FoS'd cheese based on that. I have to step back and rethink everything. I'll come back with more thoughts on who I suspect, but honestly at this point I'm not sure that I'm all that good at it. Maybe post game I'll be able to get some insight on things and do better in the future. I'm sorry for killing kush. I cannot believe he flipped town. I'll try to redeem myself. | ||
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On October 28 2012 08:22 Inigmaticalism wrote: @Rad: if you can explain what we could possibly gain from knowing kush was lying about not recognizing debears I would become more interested in the answer. Kush did pretty much talk to debears most on Day 1 after all. I was pushing it hard, because in Ace's vigi/cop guide, his top priority is to SHOOT LIARS. Priority 0: Shoot liars. Some players still try and spin these stupid fairy tales saying that lying helps the town. They also believe Voldemort is real. Don't listen to them. Without going in depth about why lying is bad just follow this statement - SHOOT first. There are very few instances where lying benefits the town. All I had was dandel to help me with my decision. You can see I wanted him to confirm that he thought kush was a liar. On October 28 2012 07:49 Rad wrote: ty dandel I'm going to look through it a bit, not really looking for anything in particular. What do you think about kush's claim? Do you think he's lying about not realizing he was on a scumteam with debears? On October 28 2012 07:51 Dandel Ion wrote: Yah. They way they all cuddled up to each other in the postgame and stuff, it makes it really hard to believe for me. On October 28 2012 08:02 Rad wrote: Ahh yeah, I see. @Kush, why wouldn't debears make a good coach? | ||
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When I'm done catching up in the thread I'll give my thoughts on djo. I wanted to make sure that I address any concerns about my claim first so we can get the facts straight and be able to move on from there. So please check back later for my thoughts on it. | ||
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"You are never refunded a knife under any circumstances" So with that, i have 0 bullets. | ||
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On October 29 2012 04:40 Rad wrote: I think I remember inig claiming he'd be more active starting monday. I can't find him saying this, but I feel like I remember him saying in 2-3 days he'd be more active, which at the time put him as active sunday or monday. Still searching... | ||
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On October 29 2012 10:39 debears wrote: @rad What's your view on what's going on? For our "confirmed" vig we need more help from you I'm sorry, I'm trying to figure out how I can be of most help now. I feel like I've been asking the wrong questions and thinking the wrong things in the past due to my terrible read on kush and am trying to figure out how I should be approaching this. I've been keeping up on updates all day but have been very quiet because I have nothing of quality to say right now. I will go over my thoughts though. I'm currently leaning towards djo for scum. I've felt like he's scum since the beginning and have always made that clear. I don't feel much differently now. He's also really pushing the idea of "there might be an SK still" really hard. I can't really figure out why he'd do that so I don't know how to read it. At the same time, he's already said he doesn't think it's that likely: On October 29 2012 02:05 Djodref wrote: @ Rad I wouldn't say that it is impossible but I don't believe it all personally. We might still have a SK because town is stacked with blue roles in this game but I doubt it given the precedent difficult experience of the host as a SK during a newbie. You should ask the host what happens to your bullet in such cases. How many bullets do you have now ? So, I really don't understand why he's even bringing it up anymore, but again, don't know what that says. If there is an SK, what can we possibly do about it right now? Would lynching an SK even help at this point? We have to lynch a scum or we're screwed, right? I'm a bit worried that there's no one coming to djo's defense. Everyone suspects him (except the lurkers who we don't have opinions from). It reminds me of da0ud and kush and makes me second guess my thoughts. I'm extremely concerned about nackht and need to see a lot out of him before next lynch but I don't think we will. If we decide to lynch him, I think we need to pay reeeeally close attention to how it goes down, and then be ready to throw down a switch if it seems too suspicious. If he's town, it might be easy for scum to make a case on him since he's so absent. I think we can ignore any and all discussion about roco for now. There's nothing to go on except that he's a lurker. He'll be modkilled after next lynch if a replacement can't be found. If he's replaced, we can go from there. I want to see dandel come in with a cooler head and smarter replies. I'm not sold on him being scum yet. | ||
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On October 29 2012 12:20 Djodref wrote: I'm sorry but town doesn't lynch SK at 5vs3vs1. I know that my first post is not good, especially because I was wrong on the time frame. But this one still holds... If you are town, you do not lynch the SK in this configuration and you believed I was the SK. Can you explain why? | ||
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On October 29 2012 12:30 Djodref wrote: @ Rad Check this out, I have already posted it but w/e... It's not dandel first game. I guess he knows about the risks of a lylo. Ok so let's say we have 5v3v1. Town lynches town, SK kills town. 3v3v1 Is that a better situation than 4v3 with no SK? | ||
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On October 29 2012 12:42 Djodref wrote: Regarding the introduction of Alsn's case, I think you should pay attention to it. During D1, I have been accused by him but also by sylverfire, Cheese, Rad, debears and even the late Clarity was ill-disposed towards me. The only ones who were having town reads on me are daoud which we know was town and Ini but this one is not really defending me at all. I had to talk my way out of my lynch alone and it was not an easy task. So I ask you, where are my fucking scumbuddies ? If you ask yourself this question, you might be able to draw the same conclusion that Alsn did. It's not pure WIFOM. We have 2 major AFKs. Please don't try to use that defense. | ||
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On October 29 2012 12:50 Djodref wrote: @ Rad Ok, I get your point, but you are only considering the worst possibility. Nothing says that we cannot find a scum if we decide not to lynch a SK and the SK would try to kill a mafia more than anything else during the night. That's why any town player should go for scum today instead of going for the SK. Moreover, getting rid of the SK is a high priority for the mafia because he can kill them. If you claimed SK right now, then I think we should still try to hunt down a scum before lynch, and then decide on what to do at that point. I do NOT think that dandel voting on who he thinks to be an SK 36 hours before end of day is scummy given our current scenario. No one had claimed vigi yet, and at the very least it could be a pressure move. Also, you're super scummy as it is so I think it's a great move to put pressure on you however possible (if you're town, I'd think you should agree on that point). I was asking an honest question before. I don't actually know if 3v3v1 is a worse scenario than 4v3. You've now said it is worse. Please explain: On October 29 2012 12:34 Djodref wrote: @ Cheese Lynching a possible SK today would be terribad. Check my previous posts about it, it makes you go from 5vs3vs1 to 4vs3. If you want me to detail you why 4vs3 is the worst situation ever, I can elaborate. And I would like to remind you that we are not even sure that Roco is going to survive and he could also be town ad far as we know. I would, in fact, like you to elaborate. | ||
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I agree. I was not convinced with Alsn's argument on Dandel. I also did not agree with Djo's. My only problem with Dandel right now is his attitude which hasn't been very helpful to town. I'm going to have to re-read your case on Djo. To be honest, when I read it, I was thinking you were scum buddies with kush, so I think I ignored a lot of it. It might help me at this point with my own thoughts on Djo. | ||
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About inig, I'm on the fence. He feels newbie townie to me, or something like that. Also, at the same time, I get a scummy feeling, like if I dismiss ideas about being a newbie townie, then he's really scummy. I think the lurkers are really hurting here, and if they're town, they really screwed us over. If I had input from them to consider, I think I would have a stronger feeling about inig one way or the other. In the end, there's 2 people I have no clue about and that messes up my thought process completely. | ||
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On October 29 2012 13:10 debears wrote: ##Unvote Something is really suspicious here. My 2 top scum reads sheep on a case so hard and argue with bad reasoning (even making up ones) who were your top 2 scum reads? | ||
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Yeah, I'd be curious to compare the 2 if you happen to know of any examples of his scum play | ||
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On October 29 2012 13:40 Djodref wrote: @ Cheese Well, I respectfully disagree. I've been tunneled by almost all the active players during D1 and nobody defended nor soft-defended me at that time. I believed that I was going to get mislynched. People started to say that they didn't want to lynch quite late during day 1 because I was generating discussion, not because they thought I was townie. You had some pressure on you d1 but I don't think you were at risk of getting lynched. Multiple people had said "he inputs enough good conversation, if he's scum he'll slip up at some point" and for whatever reason, we all moved on to inig and da0ud. You may have been scared early on but you know you weren't scared at all the last hours before the lynch. Hell, you even called cheese out about why his vote was still on you because obviously you weren't a lynch candidate at that point. Also you need to stop about the "no one defended me" garbage. We had 2 lurkers then and we have the same 2 lurkers now (1 replaced with a new person, but same role in this game). Also, you just haven't needed a scum buddy to take your side until right now, and it's super dangerous to do so at this point. | ||
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On October 29 2012 13:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Anyone Inig makes this comment after I call him out on sheeping the Dandel case, and having posts that don't contribute. I'm not sure I understand what it means. Can anyone clarify a motivation behind this post? No, I was hoping to get a response from him. It doesn't make any sense to me either. | ||
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Dandel had a lot of time to think about it, and one of his main points about you was how quickly you pointed out the sylver quote. That didn't exist at the time he posted his msg before end of night. | ||
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On October 29 2012 14:14 Djodref wrote: @ Rad It didn't change the fact that he still voted for me for being a SK rather than Ini for being a scum. He didn't make the "I'm voting for SK" argument minutes before lynch and then let his vote ride into a lynch. He made it after a double NK where I hadn't claimed vigi yet. He had well over a full day left to change it up. At the very least it was a pressure move and I think a good one. It's not like everyone was going to read his case and go "yep let's kill the SK!" and no one talk until lynch. It has helped town a lot because it's gotten a variety of opinions since. Let me rephrase. His vote and reasoning is not important because it hasn't done anything yet. It's just there, making you anxious and causing discussion. If he votes inig, what happens? Inig posts once, maybe twice, goes afk. What do you do? You talk a loooootttt. That creates something for us to discuss. Furthermore, his points were interesting and valid. What new can he post about inig? Nothing at that point. | ||
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/facepalm Isn't he just straight up mod replaced and/or modkilled at night now? Or, how will this work since he missed last vote... | ||
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On October 29 2012 14:35 Djodref wrote: @ Rad True enough, pressuring me made me talk a lot. But I think he forgot about Inig and wanted to lynch me instead. Remember that not wanting to lynch scum is a big scum-tell. You think dandel "forgot about about inig"? Come on djo... | ||
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funny before i posted that it was something like "forabout inig?" and then I "fixed" it | ||
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On October 29 2012 14:41 Djodref wrote: @ Rad Check this out. He did mention him once while SK tunneling me. I read that as just more sarcasm based on him not including inig in the "what has X done" post. | ||
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On October 29 2012 14:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: The only reason he wasn't modkilled was because he was due to be replaced. If he didn't vote on D1 then he shouldn't be around for d2. And surprisingly Roco doesn't want to lynch Djo... Why not? Something smells super scummy about this entire situation. A lurker being scumbuddies with Djo just makes too much sense right now, especially with him returning the second he has the possibility of being lynched. I don't think we can read into roco's latest statement. It could go either way IMO. I hope roco gets handled quickly as he's just going to be throwing out the most confusing garbage ever. | ||
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On October 29 2012 21:38 Djodref wrote: @ Rad A townie should always have an open mind and bla bla bla bla Shall we discuss this issue when you come back to the thread ? I'll try to present you some good arguments. @Djo, leaning towards thinking you're scum has nothing to do with not having an open mind. Do you really think saying something like this helps you stay alive another day? If you're town, you need to think before you speak and filter yourself. If you're scum, a stupid statement like this doesn't do anything, so try something different. | ||
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On October 29 2012 23:54 thrawn2112 wrote: Roco, check your pm inbox. Roco is back in the game and his vote will count towards today's lynch. ................................................................. Roco, you better get the hell in here and make some damn sense for once. Guys, to be honest, if he doesn't, I don't know if I can vote for anyone over him. | ||
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nackht did say he would be back today with some sort of useful content. So for me, I'm leaning towards djo over him, unless he's a no show, in which case I need to think about it seriously. Roco is PURE NONSENSE. If he doesn't change that up and be useful to town, I dunno... it's really hard for me to not vote for him at that point. | ||
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I can go over that tonight before lynch if I need. I can only make short posts today in the meantime. If you want to start discussing without me coming up with some list, go right ahead. | ||
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On October 30 2012 00:55 nackhtjogger wrote: Not sure about Dan or Djo, If you want to lynch scum I'd go for Cheesecake. I haven't read the whole thread yet though, so what do I know. ##Vote: Cheesecake *hides as angry mob runs by wanting to kick his ass for reading so damn slow You have 8 hours before lynch. Feel free to read everything and make an informed case. Thanks. | ||
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I'm not sure that you should have claimed yet. You have to remember we're playing against 3 scum here. You're pissed that no one's reading your case or whatever, but you have to look at how the votes are right now. I've been leaning djo all day, hell, all game. I haven't suggested that I'm considering you at all yet. In fact I think I said the opposite. You should be assuming I'll be voting djo. Who do we have voting you right now? Alsn, Inigmaticalism, Djodref, Roco69 inig and djo are probably my top 2 scum reads. They're debear's top 2 for sure. Cheese has stuck his vote on djo and is probably not coming back any time soon due to the storm so not a big chance of him switching. Alsn, not sure about him, but I'm leaning town. Roco is my third scum read. I might go into him later, as it's a really weak argument atm. I'm feeling decent about nackht and am leaning slight town on him, but not sure yet. it's true that nackht could end up voting for you tonight, which would make you lynched, but you could have waited until the last 30m or so to throw out your claim IMO (if things stay as they are right now). | ||
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On October 30 2012 05:50 nackhtjogger wrote: Hey, I'm not saying Djo isn't scum. But if he is he's fucking Keyzer Soze. I say we lynch Cheesecake the obv scum before we try to shoot the devil in the back Why do you think he's such an amazing scum if he ends up being one? He's the main reason you have 61 pages to read over. Do you think he's really been that helpful to town so far? We constantly keep catching him with useless comments, wifom, bs. Hell he even admits that he feels he looks scum. I can't see a good reason not to lynch him right now. | ||
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@nackht what are your thoughts on dandel's claim and our current situation? I don't see support for a cheese lynch picking up. Are you planning on sticking with that vote or switching to one of the current targets? | ||
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Djo obviously means "Djo town / Debears scum" for the second one. Everyone makes mistakes. I don't see what it tells us about anything. | ||
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##Vote: Djodref | ||
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On October 30 2012 06:54 Alsn wrote: Rad, that's pretty unfair. Djod said he went to bed and probably won't be back in time to make a compelling argument one way or the other. You can't really count on him answering you. I was just noting I'm curious. If you check the end of d1, he was back in time to discuss the lynch. In fact, he had gotten done catching up on the thread almost an hour and a half before lynch. It's not unreasonable to think he could be back in time. | ||
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Interesting claim, but isn't it just as likely that you dropped that as scum in order to point it out at some point? It's not a blue claim that has a threat of the real blue popping out to counter claim. | ||
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That roco is Dan Hibiki and he's just playing the role. | ||
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Is there some rule that says there can't be that many blues? If not, your argument seems worthless. And why are you getting offended about the waking up thing? You're back exactly when I expected you to be back, unlike n1 when you showed up perfectly late. | ||
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I'm interested in a debears scum argument. Please expand on that a little in case you flip town. | ||
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If you're town, don't crumple up and die without a fight. Give me your debears argument before you're dead. | ||
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We have alsn and nackht thinking cheese is scum. I'm much more interested in a debears case, because you're the only one considering that right now, and if you flip town and we didn't get any good evidence from you on him, I'll be pissed. | ||
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No breadcrumbs. I have to play the newbie card on that, sorry. I apologized for it after I made the claim and realize I'm an asshole for it. I did make a case before on pointing out how bad i wanted to reveal kush's "lie" that goes along with ace's vigi guide. If you haven't read it yet, I'll find it for you and post it again. | ||
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On October 30 2012 08:29 Djodref wrote: Why you should lynch Cheese instead of me today !!
I don't know how the setup works, but are roles not assigned randomly? Like, they chose all the roles that would be in the game, and then we're all given roles randomly? | ||
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So you're claiming that you randomly got vanilla town, and then that he was like "oh lucky thing he's vanilla town, he can be abel!" See, I was asking about how roles get assigned, as I was under the impression that they were randomly assigned (not based on anything, i just thought that's how it works, I have no idea how it works though). In that case, you'd have to get vanilla townie randomly assigned in order to get abel as your name. | ||
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I don't like how this is changing last second. It feels like d1 and that scares me. I'm trying to look into cheese filters but at the same time there's so much going on I need to keep up with it too. @nackht I claimed vigi and people had a townie read on me before that. That's what they're going off of. | ||
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Didn't you just yell at Alsn for asking you that same question? | ||
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On October 30 2012 20:46 Dandel Ion wrote: Okay, the motives I can see: A) They, like all game, were just sheeping onto a candidate without thinking about it = without caring who actually gets lynched. Scum motivation here. This option would mean Cheese is town. B) It was an elaborate ploy to get our votes BACK onto Djo, because they "knew" how suspicious their votes looked, so it'd force the votes of the active people back onto a mislynch in Djo. Scum motivation. This'd mean that Inig (more likely) and/or Cheese (less likely and way more risky) are scum. C) They just wanted to lynch somebody else than Inig, plain and simple. Scum motivation. Means Inig is scum. So, to recap, I see 3 possible reasons. All are scum motivated. Cheese is 1-1 in possible scuminess here, while Inig is 2-0. Roco has the same alignment as Inig for sure. It's also a serious sign that they communicate with each other privately. And the worst part: They don't even try to explain their fucking selves. They just keep with their strategy and hope we'll try our hand at another mislynch and forget about them again. You can talk about your concerns of Alsn with him in the meantime, because it's not like the lurking boy wonders actually say anything. But I'mma be clear on this: If the lurkers don't come out with a REALLY damn good explanation of their actions during the night, I'm going to autolynch them first thing. (If I survive the night) And I'd ask you to do the same thing. In regards to what I bolded, keep in mind that everything was just fine with the votes until inig jumped in and switched to cheese. This caused the panic, but the mislynch of djo was going to happen before that anyway. I cannot think of a scum motive for inig to jump in and switch to cheese. The town motive there would be he truly believed djo was town or cheese was scum. So, at panic time, we 3 said "Oh shit inig's being suspicious, screw that let's jump him" which I think was ok on our part because that shit was completely suspicious, and at the time it looked like he was trying to save djo (who I thought was scum). However, with djo flipping town, I can't figure out a single scum motive for him to do that, so while scummy and/or confusing (IMO non townie) as hell, I just can't see why he'd do it as scum. Now onto roco, he switched vote after we started panicing about inig, and after dandel and alsn jumped over to inig. I had shown interest in switching to inig and I tried to see if djo and/or nackht were interested in a switch. This is the point where roco changed to cheese. IF we knew inig was scum, I could see this as a scum motive for roco to jump in and vote cheese, because it forces our votes back on djo's mislynch, but since we don't currently know if inig is scum, I guess this can't be a scum tell. Again with roco as with inig, I can see a town motive for doing this. He already showed he didn't want to lynch djo earlier, and his current vote on dandel was useless to saving djo, but switching to cheese at least gives djo a chance (let's say that one of us might have been willing to switch to cheese, we had the chance to do so after both inig and roco switched and it would have gotten cheese lynched). Now let me get this clear. I don't understand WHY inig or roco did what they did, and I WANT EXPLANATIONS, but I don't know if we'll get them (from roco at least, might from inig, but it'll just be "I thought djo was town and cheese was scum"). They sure are making this game hard as hell for me to figure out, which seems completely untownie to me (then again wtf do I know), but I can't figure out a scum motive for what they did beyond "make this game confusing as hell for town." | ||
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On October 30 2012 23:01 Alsn wrote: Yea, exactly. I think at this point even though I still believe there's a possibility that you're scum Dandel, I think I'm pretty much forced to trust you at this point. So if you, me and Rad all figure out a lynch target that we can get behind, we just have to hope that remaining townies go for it too. Cause even if we mislynch, if all 4 town don't consolidate on the same target we don't even have the chance of being right. What's forcing you to trust dandel at this point? The 3 of us just contributed to a djo mislynch. If you're town, I'm not sure why you would trust anyone at this point. I can see a scum motivation here to rally us into another mislynch though. If you're town, and dandel is scum, why would he rally with you to lynch a scum? He would try to lead you in the wrong direction for the game winning mislynch. | ||
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Find reasons to trust or not trust people. For inig, you can look at djo's statement that he's got an 80% town read on him. Djo had the chance to save himself on an inig bandwagon but he straight up declined. Djo flipped town, why did he trust inig so much? There's going to be more stuff like that that we need to consider. | ||
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Yeah I get it, and pretty much agree with your assessment. However, they're playing the game how they want to play it, and shitty useless town isn't scum. IF inig and roco are town, it's going to be easiest for scum to push a lynch on them, so I'm going to be extremely cautious about that. I really, really hope we at least get some feedback from inig, or at least another one liner from roco. If the game ends in an inig/roco lynch where one is town, I'm going to feel like this was just a ton of wasted time. | ||
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On October 31 2012 00:07 Alsn wrote: With regards to the bolded part, I agree that since Djod's motives were pure, we should definitely pay attention to his thoughts. We need to keep in mind however that he was town, so he actually doesn't know anything more than we do. The only advantage he had on us was the he knew he was town before the lynch, but so did scum. So I guess with that in mind we should be able to find something but I'm not sure how much we can trust Djod's reads at this point. If anything, we have the exact same information now that he did, except we aren't under massive pressure due to being on the lynching block. I agree that we can't base anything just on djo's one statement. What I was getting at was there are other ways to try to get a read on inig and roco. We have a bunch of dead townies now. What did they think about inig and roco before they were killed? | ||
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On October 31 2012 00:11 Rad wrote: I agree that we can't base anything just on djo's one statement. What I was getting at was there are other ways to try to get a read on inig and roco. We have a bunch of dead townies now. What did they think about inig and roco before they were killed? EBWOP: "everything" not "anything" | ||
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On October 31 2012 00:11 debears wrote: @Alsn Part of the problem with Djo's trust of Inig is the fact that he was on the chopping block......you look for trust from anyone to sway the lynch in your favor I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you clarify? | ||
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ok but he refused to jump on an inig bandwagon after inig had already come back to vote for cheese. Moving to the inig bandwagon would have saved him. WHY didn't he jump? | ||
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Notice I was asking djo if he would switch to inig bandwagon. I didn't want to switch if he didn't, because I was afraid of a last second cheese lynch due to the chaos, so I stuck on djo until I got his answer. When he declined, I decided to stick with djo. | ||
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On October 31 2012 00:23 Alsn wrote: The obvious answer seems to me that he truly thought Cheese was scum and that we were trying to manipulate him into mislynching Inig instead of him. Given within the short amount of time within which this occurred, I don't think he really had time to think it through. I know I didn't. He had stated before that he thought Inig was just a bad townie. He probably didn't have time to change his mind that quickly. Djo shows a ton of confidence in his claim with the 80% and smiley, IMO On October 30 2012 08:57 Djodref wrote: No, Ini is a newb townie, 80% sure of it Guys, I have some magic with the lurkers I don't think he needed any more time to think about inig's innocence. Not saying djo is necessarily correct in his thoughts, but I think he was confident. | ||
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On October 31 2012 03:52 nackhtjogger wrote: The only scenario worth considering right now is that there are 2 scum. I think I've identified Cheesecake as one by pointing out his constant queries into town's approval for his courses of action and considerations, which is what belnding in really means. Blending in doesn't mean you don't notice the guy .. it just means he TRIES desperately TO BLEND IN, actively I might add. Once you have enough experience to know how that manifests you can identify this by simply reading the tone of the post. Alsn on the other hand is another breed, his actions give away his scummness and the fact that his actions don't add up with what he claims to be thinking. If that wouldn't have been the case he would've either voted for Cheese or never mentioned that he finds cheese suspicious. What he did was .. not only anti-town in itself but it also kept other townies from doing the right thing and voting for Cheese. People started to listen to him when he said Cheese was suspicious but he sabotaged that trust and did exactly the opposite .. even saying that Dandel would be to blame for a Cheese mislynch. Oh really? That would've been 100% my fault obviously but somehow he cracked under pressure and actually believed he was going to get some heat. I think you, debears, tried persistently to get a leader position going from the start, and I have reasons to believe you feel threatened by my appearance and the certainty I'm emanating. You must feel like I know too much or that I want nothing more than to manipulate. Certain town? Who cares if you're certain town to me or not .. the only scenario that is left for consideration is that there are 2 scum and you have heard that I'm pretty sure cheese and alsn to be it. So what's the problem .. of course I'm drawing the line at this point and I want everybody except those two on my team. Regarding the bolded part, the idea that Alsn cracked under pressure feeling like he'd take heat on a cheese mislynch suggests either Alsn is scum and knows cheese will flip town, or alsn is town so has no idea what cheese will flip and doesn't want to take heat if he flips town. If Alsn pushes for cheese lynch and cheese is scum, there wouldn't be any heat on Alsn. The only case where there would be heat is if cheese flips town. You think both are scum. How does your argument make any sense? | ||
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Also, I didn't realize a possibility of a 2 scum game. I thought there had to be 3. The throws my thought process for a huge loop. I really wish someone pointed that out when Djo and I were discussing the different scenarios before because all the scenarios were based on 3 scum. | ||
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On October 28 2012 02:09 nackhtjogger wrote: I don't see why town would want to drag down morale like that. | ||
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If you're scum, FU and your stories. Seriously, if you're town, please try to just contribute a little. You don't have to spend 8 hours a day. Just give us something. Be honest and open and townie. Don't hold back your thoughts, just be open about stuff you're thinking about and relax. If we mislynch you for misreading you, but you're giving some content and contributing, bad on us, but it's really hard when you sit back and do nothing, then jump in last second and create chaos. | ||
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So I didn't really get on the "debears is definitely town" bandwagon, though I kinda said I was at points. However, cheese was my "strongest town read" for the whole game, so GG that. Then I got clarity banned because I spoke way too fast, was in the middle of a conversation with hapa when he pm'd me, then I was like "shit! what should I do hapa?", rather than thinking it out and then just pointing out that it's against the rules and to go away. Then I shot kush and pushed the djo lynch. I am the town killer. You sure I wasn't SK? If you gave me more bullets I'm sure I could have taken out some other townie with ease. | ||
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I'll probably /in, at the very least /obs, this shit has consumed me for days now. I was honestly happy when I got NK'd so the thinking could stop O.O | ||
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On November 02 2012 10:04 kushm4sta wrote: rad...... i hate you | ||
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