EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXIX - Page 7
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
A Second case on Djo Since my first case, Djo hasn't done much to help my read on him. In fact, after rereading his filter again, I'd say my scumread on him is even stronger. Points in the original case/cases 1) Stated and Acted as though he had a town read on me day 1, then denies it when pressured by Rad 2) His two scumslips (slips as he calls them) - Dau0d town comment and the slip when talking about Alsn's fOS 3) Wanting me to "Take care of Rad" day 1 The Day 1 lynch First, I want to point out his indecisiveness and apparent apathy to who he wanted lynched. Djo's first actual pursuit was Inig. He was pressing on Inig pretty well. However, when asked who he would want to lynch, he says Sylver (with his vote on Inig) On October 27 2012 00:51 Djodref wrote: @Kush Debears and Rad are looking quite ok. I'm leaning town for both of them. I'm waiting for Cheese to post what he has to say about me because I'm still null on him. I didn't like some posts from sylver but he had some nice reactions during our latest fight. I need some time to look at dandel. I didn't like the way he voted Inig, but he said he was not sure even. I would say sylver right now... But I've been spending too much time defending myself. I need to calm down and re-read some filters for a while. A couple of posts later, he unvotes and states why he doesn't want to lynch Inig suddenly. On October 27 2012 01:03 Djodref wrote: Regarding an Inig's lynch, I'm not comfortable with it... In my opinion, he had a positive response after my case against him. I doubt that he could be a scum after that. His role claim was looking really sincere. If he can improve his presence in the thread and his scumhunting, I don't want to lynch him. I'm going to unvote him. I would cast my vote on Roco or imcasey if they magically reappear. I'll wake up early tomorrow to see if the bandwagon is still against me or not. If you are town, do not sheep and cast your vote against me. Read my filter and make your own opinion by yourself. You are going to feel some heat if you cast your vote too lightly because I'm going to flip green. I'm sorry but I need some sleep guys ## Unvote That's quite the turnaround after the pressure and vote On October 27 2012 08:20 Djodref wrote: @debears No, I'm not comfortable with any of the lynches to be honest. I'm looking at their filter over and over again and try to find some little clues... Regarding Inig, I should vote him if I was only a rational machine (no scumhunting at the beginning, wishy washy on Cheese, voting imcasey unexpectedly, the slip you have found, etc...) but I feel him as sincere in his posts.a Not sure why he claimed though. Regarding daoud, I have no reasons to vote for him at the exception of his hasty vote. His only reason for not voting Inig was that Inig seemed "sincere". In fact, he said that it would be rational to lynch Inig based on his posting. That one post is a huge contradiction. Notice how during his time, he puts suspicion on Sylver. Also, notice the timing of the unvote. He unvoted when there were other people agreeing with his case. That's really weird combined with the "he's sincere" reasoning on Inig. Djo's approach on Dau0d Despite Djo's suspicions on Inig and Sylver, he ends up voting Dau0d. Why? Lets see On October 27 2012 08:56 Djodref wrote: ## Vote daoud Because his involvement in this game has not been great so far... Not the greatest reasoning. He does provide some reasoning right after though. On October 27 2012 08:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Allow me to ameliorate for you, sir. 1.) Inig was a semi lurker to begin with. As of late, he has been posting more and with greater content. Da0ud, on the other hand, has contributed much less and is still lurking. 2.) Let's look at both of their percentage town reads. Inigs: Da0ud's: Inig has more reason for considering Djo town, and puts it at 70% (leaning town). He says he's been consistent, obviously posting alot, and going after him of all people. He likes this, and even offers some counter-roles that he could be instead of mafia. Da0ud on the other hand only says "hey, he's asking questions, must be 90% (almost definitely town)" I find Da0uds reasons for thinking Djo town less plausible than Inigs, and he almost considers him town. 3.) Inig has been more distinguished in asking questions / contributing. His theory on Dandel is intriguing and unique, and something I may want to follow up on in the future. His vote of imcasey and Dandel is anything BUT blending in. Notice his reasoning. It's literally almost the same for Inig. Yet, he feels that Inig was "more distinguished in asking questions/contributing". I don't get it. Also, he didn't think Dau0d's meta was different than Dau0d's town game when he posted this earlier. On October 27 2012 00:53 Djodref wrote: Regarding daoud, I don't want to lynch him because he has reacted quite fast and naturally to my slip. Him posting some nonsense about the possibility of a SK just after totally fits his meta. He needs to post a lot more though... He flip-flopped onto Dau0d after kush's case while spreading suspicion onto 2 other plays (slyverfyre and Inig). His reasoning for moving his suspicion around was poor at the best. To me, it seems like he didn't care who got lynched Hammering CheeseCake for the Switched Vote This was posted after the lynch On October 27 2012 17:53 Djodref wrote: @ Cheese At this point, were you considering that daoud and Inig were better candidate than me ? You have been suspecting me for quite a long time D1 and you suddenly prefer to lynch daoud because some replacement came in and told you he was scummy ? You alsmost didn't consider him at all until that point yet you have no problem with lynching him instead of your top scumread (which was me) ? I'm pretty surprised that you didn't try to push my lynch. Isn't this similar to what Djo did? Yet Djo is calling him out for it? Djo had no considerations of Dau0d until the kush case was posted. On October 27 2012 23:19 Djodref wrote: "That being said, you were my best scum read at the time; but there was no chance of you being lynched." @ Cheese Here is a quote from you. As you can see, I was a little more than your best scumread. Nevertheless, you gave little to no protest about lynching daoud or ini over me. Big scumtell in my book. Have a look at debears reactions when people started to vote daoud. He was trying to push his case until the end.This commitment is a big towntell. Where was your reaction when you came back to thhe tread and realized that a lynch on me was "not possible" ? No protest, no comments about other people being stupid or whatever, not trying to push my lynch. And you proceeding to compare the percentage daoud and Ini were giving for their townread on me to decide who to lynch between the two... do you have any comments to do on this ? FoS Cheese Yet again, a FOS for hypocritical reasoning. Not only did Djo drop his top scumread for poor reasoning, he voted for Dau0d for poor reasoning. And now he's spreading suspicion on CheeseCake. This post, however, is the kicker On October 27 2012 08:00 Djodref wrote: @ Cheese What the fuck are you doing with your vote still on my back ? Come in the thread and choose who you want to lynch today between daoud and Ini. Tell us your reasons about it ! Djo told him to change his vote in the first place!!!!!!!!!! Then, he tries to accuse Cheese of scum since Cheese did it???? Wow. Meta Djo has little meta to go on with only 2 games. However, there are differences from his town game and scum game. These differences, related to this game, are not damning by any means, but do support that Djo could be scum. 1) Djo is capable of being active as scum. His filter was roughly 9 pgs as scum in Looney 2)His case format this game compared to his other games http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372945¤tpage=58#1147 - Game as scum http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=374466¤tpage=23#441 - this game Look at the shocking similarities. Now, this could be how he likes to post now, since this is only his 3rd game. However, in looking at his first newbie as cop, no posts have the same format (Correct me if I'm wrong on this Djo) 3) Personality - Djo's personality this game is similar to his other games as cop and mafia. Take out the newbie card play, and he sounds the same in all 3. Thus, his personality is a null tell, but it mean that he can be mafia A Common Fallacy I think this game has fallen into the trap of activity = town. That is not always the case. Take a long hard look at Djo's filter and this case. His filter is huge and it was a bitch to go through. Mafia can hide in a big filter. Djo is my number 2 scum read besides Dandel right now. I still need to see if Dandel even comes back (and defends himself properly + has something to contribute) before I would think of voting Djo. Let me know if you need clarification on anything. Reading Djo's filter + writing out the case = sucks | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Mb cheese. Ok refering to my post before. Remove the quote from Cheese. I gotta relook at Djo's filter about that point since I fucked up :/ | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On October 27 2012 09:00 Djodref wrote: I don't know how daoud came up with this 90% gauge on me. Maybe because of my posting style. If you check my filter last game where I was mafia last game and my filter in this game,I bet that they really look different. Djo voted for Dau0d for literally 2 sentences of reasoning. Wow. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
3 sentences including the quote in my case | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Yes I am considering the lurkers. That includes Roco, Nackht, and Inig However, there isn't much to say on them. They aren't contributing (possibly at threat of modkill). They are not helping weed out scum at all. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
I agree with the nature on Inig's posting. After skimming his filter, I feel like he has been just dropping in with a couple of posts and then leaving without actively discussing matters at hand (I'll check his posts in context later). Do you get the same feel from it? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
That part I don't know.....it's WIFOM. If both were scum 1) Would scum put pressure on their partner? Djo ---> Inig 2) Would scum back out of that pressure when their partner started getting votes? Djo uv Inig. Votes Dau0d If only one was scum Djo (if scum) frames Inig (if town). Then backs off to avoid attention when the case gains momentum? Djo (if town) attacks Inig (if scum). Backs off his vote because he actually believes Inig is town Scum could do that or they couldn't, we simply don't know. Also, notice how Djo did focus on sylver alot also. It wasn't only Inig (it was a majority though) The part that I do know is that both have and do look individually scummy, which imo, is the most important thing. It's a pretty damn good bet that one of them is scum | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
have looked and do look individually scummy. I sux at english | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
"I found Djo's contradiction about cheeses vote the best piece of evidence there could be" This statment implies that you believe djos scum case is stronger than dandels, yet you vote for dandel Are you voting dandel because you find him scummier than djo or because his case is the only case you have made? Also, your "lynch him before djo bc djo might be sk" idea is invalid. There is no way there is a sk unless its rad. I don't like how you suddenly come from out of nowhere and instantly drop your vote on someone. You arent here for a whole day and automatically know someone is scum when all of us are having difficulty knowing so surely? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
What's your view on what's going on? For our "confirmed" vig we need more help from you | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On October 29 2012 11:11 Inigmaticalism wrote: Its golden. Answer Djo Dandel. Why are you voting who you think is the SK? Its not even in towns win-con. Um. Yeah it is. Now you are making up reasons/blatingly lieing. Game does not end for us until mafia and serial killer(if applicable) are dead. Djo ill look over the early d2 posts | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Are you serious? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Making up reasons to lynch someome after sheeping on a case | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Saying no one defended you is a null tell. When were you at real threat of lynch d1 when your scumbuddies would have to defend you. Its wifom | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
[QUOTE]On October 29 2012 12:11 Dandel Ion wrote: /snip "Hey-guys-we-didn't-do-any-NK-speculations-yet" Djodref: + Show Spoiler + On October 29 2012 10:14 Djodref wrote: Regarding dandel, I've found him very quick to accuse me as a SK at the beginning of D2. I know that he is saying that I'm SK or scum but his posts strongly imply that I'm more SK than scum (he brings thrawn meta in and says I'm more likely to be SK than scum). It makes a lot of sense from a mafia point of view. It's true that I didn't consider the fact that Kush could have been killed by the mafia and that I have found a possible reason for the mafia to have targeted sylverfire quite fast. It was obvious for me that mafia would never had killed Kush because of my experience of the last game. Correct me if I'm wrong but Kush is never NKed by the mafia when he rolls town. Anyway, I should have looked like I had some extra information about the night kills. So, from a mafia point of view, I really should be looking like a SK. I find it very strange that dandel didn't wait that long for a vig to claim. Getting a SK lynched is good for the image I guess so he comes at me very fast with a weird meta argument to support the fact that could be SK. [u]To sum up[u] Scum dandel knows that I'm not going to flip scum. Reacting to an apparent extra information about the NKs from my side, he comes at me very fast saying that I'm SK (not waiting for a claim, backing it up with poor arguments). He doesn't have the time to go through 18 pages of Thrawn's filter. Seriously, it makes so much sense ! Town dandel would have reacted slower to an apparent extra information about the NKs from my side. It doesn't tell if I'm scum or SK (please check Cheese reaction to see the difference). His reaction could have been possible but it makes less sense. ##Unvote ##Vote Dandel You keep implying that I came after you "very fast", but that is a straight up lie. I gave you EASILY enough time to claim. I ask: "Is there something you want to tell us?" You seem to not want to tell us anything out of your own accord, so OVER 10 HOURS LATER, I make my post where I accuse you of being scum/SK. (This could've been avoided if Rad was faster at claiming, but better late than never.) You, Djo, will be happy to hear that I don't think you're the SK anymore, and you went back to being only Scum to me. You somehow arrive at how I "don't have the time to look through thrawn's filter", and I don't even know how you got to that assumption, or how it's relevant at all. But it's now redundant anyways. Honestly though, I probably couldn't point out a single collection of posts and point at it saying "this is where I got my scum/SK read on him", because he didn't have any obvious slips in there. He just posted a metric shitton and I always got a scummy feel off his posts. Which is pretty much what I get from you, only you post things that are slips, or at least look like them to me. Your "case", or post, or however you want to call it, is oddly similar to Alsn's too, in that 50% of it is speculation and WIFOM, which should have no place in there, and which I suspect is there only so that it makes it look like you had anything to actually base your read on. But I haven't seen anything. Oh, and I'm going to say this again, I was pushing for your lynch because you were either scum or SK. The chance of you flipping town are and were incredibly slim in my mind. @ dandel I'm discarding the post you have quoted. I have admitted that I was wrong on the time frame already and I agree that I have said some bullshit in this post. But I don't understand why you don't address my other posts about you, which have much stronger evidence. By the way, you were not pushing my lynch because I was either scum or SK (like Cheese did) but you were pushing my lynch because I was SK or scum. [/QUOTE] Um. What does that last line mean? | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Something is really suspicious here. My 2 top scum reads sheep on a case so hard and argue with bad reasoning (even making up ones) | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
Check this out. Guys here's a meta read on town Dandel from a previous game I played with him. Comments on how ridiculous a game could be. Context - I am accusing him hard of lieing and such. Thrawn is also considering him for lynch. Last game On September 22 2012 07:53 Dandel Ion wrote: Oh man this game is so surreal... See you guys tomorrow This game On October 29 2012 12:13 Dandel Ion wrote: And Inig tries to tell people that town doesn't need to lynch SKs... This game, man. I'm going to sleep. Notice the similarities when he's under attack now? He did this when the case on him was false when he was town. Same thing in this game. Now, for his flaming On September 22 2012 20:00 Dandel Ion wrote: I mean the part where he stops being just bad, and starts being a retard. Open his filter and start with this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=33#641 Shouldn't be too hard to find. So a bad scum I don't know in a newbie game I didn't play in said something about Vigs during the game. Now clearly, the most logical thing for you to do is to jump on me (the "easy target") with a horrible association case that you base off a random guy? Oh wow, if you really think that's scumhunting, then good luck. What are you trying to say here, hmm? That rethos behaved just as Remedy did, but for some reason you think Remedy is town(?) and rethos is scum, or what? It doesn't make sense for you to use this argument, because if you were honest about it, you should have had a town read on rethos too. Double standard much? Please elaborate on why you think Remedy is town, and rethos scum. I'm listening. Well guess what, I don't like it either. But what can I do? I have no fucking idea what he was thinking or doing. I couldn't even ask him, or talk to him. So how the fuck should I defend accusations that have nothing to do with me, that I would find scummy myself, and where I have no idea why he did what he did? Protip: I can't do shit Which is why I want town to talk about something else. But if you want to call it "sweeping under the rug" and keep trapling on a dead guy with no way to defend himself, go on ahead. And it's funny you bold a little part of my sentence and ignore the stuff written in the rest of it. I never told anyone they can't vote for me (like anyone would listen), I only want you to TALK about something different. Even if I was scum, there'd be two more. And when I flip green, you see that you're gonna have to find three more. So I suggest(ed) looking into that. But it seems you are not interested. Why not? Oh wow, way to not read my filter!! Good job! I was already asked (kinda) about this and answered it. It's true, I'm even linking it, otherwise you might not find it in my massive one-page filter! Here! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367548¤tpage=38#749 I am putting pressure on him in a way, yes. Because he's being SUPER useless while being "confirmed" town. And that makes me mad. Cause if he keeps that up when Sharrant gets shot (and Sharrant WILL get shot soon, since he's the only mason that actually does ANYTHING), it ain't gonna be pretty. Oh, I know a case exists. But I want you to meditate, find your inner center, and tell me how I should treat the case instead. And stop being hypocritical about me not reading or whatever - I read the thread, I read all the filters. But you yourself seem to have conveniently skipped over some of my posts (in one case even over the sentence you were quoting from), just to rehash some concerns that have already been answered. You even mention the mason thing, which was a stupid misunderstanding that thrawn STILL pointed out AFTER I ALREADY explained it without anyone even asking. Okay, okay, maybe a mistake by him (though scum thrawn is looking more likely by the minute), but WHY do you feel the need to bring that up again? This sentence alone makes me think you're just trying to appear like you're "scumhunting", when you actually don't*. So you call my post "weird" to discredit me. *This is not just about this one sentence, you whole "case" is rehashed garbage you could've answered yourself if you actually read through the thread/my filter to really scumhunt, instead of picking a few posts out of context, ingoring the explainations I already gave, etc. Your only original contribution is the assosiation "case" with Xathalos. And that is so fucking horrible it gives me the worst nightmares (good thing I just woke up) But at least I can give you the good news! Remedy is no longer my top scumread! It's you! You win! Yaaaaay! ##vote debears Disclaimer: I'd still be up for lynching remedy/stutters/insert-lurker-here too. Look at the sarcasm. He calls me a retard cuz he knows he's town and he isn't scummy. Look at his response to Alsn's case this game. This game On October 28 2012 23:06 Dandel Ion wrote: I said I'd tunnel Kush because I find it very hard to get a proper feel-read on him. I hope at this point, I've referenced NMM XXVII enough times, and this too, is a leftover from that game. I basically assumed he was town in that game because his actions would have been absolutely stupid as scum. Lo and behold, he actually was scum. I don't understand how his brain works, so I basically decided I wouldn't give him any benefit of the doubt, concerning anything. But he comes in, plays scummy, and doesn't respond to any of the cases/concerns on him (expect saying they are "bad", nothing else given). Can you honestly tell me you didn't find Kush scummy too? Cause I don't think you can. I did not "only" suspect Djo at all. Yes, I tunneled Kush. I didn't switch to daoud, because, while the post that got him lynched was a huge "wtf" moment, I did not find him more scummy than Inig. Yea, the cases on Inig weren't too strong, but the reasons some people had for voting daoud were even worse. I'll openly disagree with your whole post. From your useless WIFOM you just included so that your post looks bigger/like it had actual content, to the way you excuse everyone that voted daoud (who did you vote for again?), the way you bring up things we've been over already... You used to be decent at mafia, but somehow you got terrible. I think you're not using the Newbie games right, usually you'd try to get better. Notice the sarcasm and calling him dumb? Super the same as his townie self. | ||
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