EPTTL Mafia LVIII
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
I am not fine with lynching by thread post count I am fine with lynching lurkers lol | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
His last post - he asks Palmar whether or not lazermonkey's reasoning makes him still think it's a "catch". That makes no sense though, because hopeless indicated that he meant to write something else. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
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the rest of you - who the hell knows? AMA | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
##Vote froggynoddy | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
His posting seems very artificial in the manner that he tries to go about addressing everything. In his vote for Tunkeg he spends more time talking about how to play the game than about why Tunkeg's posting makes Tunkeg specifically mafia (his point about advice is meaningless as he does not explain why it is more likely for tunkeg as mafia to do this). He seems to indicate that Tunkeg's attitude is similar to what he's seen from his town play in the past, but then proceeds to vote for him. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 04 2013 02:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: The only thing scummy about froggy was that he called himself bad. why is that a sign of him being mafia? plenty of players consider themselves bad. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 04 2013 02:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Town typically don't try to discredit themselves so quickly. Most people are joking around like "lol I'm so bad". He didn't seem to be doing that. hm, ok. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 04 2013 03:26 Toadesstern wrote: how is trying to figure out palmar / yamato / debears not relevant to this game? because you're not talking about their play in this game at all lol? you tell me that yamato is reserved as compared to an ongoing game. you tell me that town palmar doesn't act like this, without going into any detail or specific examples. you haven't even expressed any opinion of yourself about debears rofl. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
he's overdoing it though. Almost feels like Batman-Palmar... Town palmar however won't do everything that's possible to make it sure it's hard for town to get reads on people or to even read the thread. That's something not-Town Palmar does. I'd like some proof for these statements. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 04 2013 03:48 Toadesstern wrote: Arkham City: Palmars filter And well about the first statement. I obviously can't prove he doesn't do that as town because that's impossible. Thing is I haven't seen him doing anything this extreme as town, and I've seen him a couple of times. Gosh you're wasting my time I'm off to McD for half an hour. I want an actual explanation with some quotes and analysis, not a useless filter link. On January 04 2013 04:00 Lazermonkey wrote: Hiro, are you going to explain anytime soon why you have me as (slight)scumread? You have talked about this two times already although not given a single reason for it. In your second post you say that it ''could just be the way he plays.''.What is this really supposed to mean. Why do you even feel the need to post it then? You are just throwing doubt at me for no apparent reason right now. I even call you out for this earlier but you ignored/missed it. You suggested policy lynches on grush/kush, but made no effort to actually push for their lynch and the way in which you overly elaborate on very simple points. I'll share what I want when I feel like it - got it? | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 04 2013 04:21 Lazermonkey wrote: Wait, why are you guys going after Cheese cake? If the issue lies in the fact that he isn't contributing then why are you ONLY pushing him? What makes him special when about 30% is at his level of contribution? where did anyone say they were voting for cheesecake because he wasn't contributing? | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 04 2013 04:29 Lazermonkey wrote: This is a nice town mentality. In what way do you think we gain on withholding information? My suggestion on killing grush/kush was about as serious as Palmar's WBG push. Read: not serious at all. It was merely a way to try to create discussion. Which turned out somewhat okayish. How do I ''overly elaborate on very simple points. ''? Care to give some examples? Don't tell me how to play, thanks. I haven't actually voted for you or tried to get you lynched at any point, so there is simply no need for me to explain. Stuff like this: These are single-sentence points that you just drag out for some reason. They don't actually say anything very meaningful but you spend a lot of time spouting stuff like this. Randomly lynching still sucks tho. Sure, on avarage it gives us 24,6% instead if 21,1% to hit the right person, however, what do we do next? It's cool to lynch scum. but if we don't, we will more or less have wasted D1. There will be no way of analyzing vote patterns or w/e. The extra 3,5% doesn't make up for the fact that a random lynch doesn't give us anything to work with on the comming day. So, to summarize a bit, I don't really see these things as townie points TBH. Why? Because you cannot just look how much sense they make from town PoV but also from scum PoV. Calling out strange votes + attacking Palmar can very well give him credit as scum. Thus it all comes down to WIFOM. And thus its a null tell. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 04 2013 04:50 Lazermonkey wrote: So you do think town should withhold information like this? Or did you just dodge the question? Regarding the second part, I don't agree but don't feel like arguing. It will just get into a circular argument of whether or not I could've written the sentences in a simpler form. Yes, I think withholding information is perfectly fine as town. If you don't have anything better to talk about, please stop wasting my time. Marvel, are you still up for killing froggynoddy? | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
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HiroPro
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HiroPro
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HiroPro
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On January 04 2013 12:40 wherebugsgo wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On January 04 2013 12:35 HiroPro wrote: have you read the thread yet bugs? read it once, yeah. On January 04 2013 12:35 debears wrote: Bugs, if someone says, "hey he's looking scummy, but it's the same as his own games", you have to show that it's different from their town games. I have done that, according to you. His play on his own is scummy. It's not like his town games. I'm not following you. You might've shown a difference but it's not the difference that matters. You need to be able to explain the difference. Yeah, finding a difference is cool, but that's not the point of metaing someone. Their play could be different for several different reasons. I find it plausible that, if his play this game is different (I haven't checked thoroughly enough to even say that it is) then there is a good chance it is because, in his last game, it didn't go very well for him. I would like to hear what you think of froggynoddy then. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
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On January 05 2013 02:36 Toadesstern wrote: well yeah but I had you down as scummy as well, I also had VE down as slighty scummy (whatever, he's VE so that's a null I guess) and besides very few people I actually agree with most stuff in palmars sheet. Like I wouldn't call Clarity town, he's still in the "might be stupid category", nothing I'd lnych but nothing I'd call town either. So it really does look like Palmars town again. talk to me toad. I want to hear which ones you don't agree with in a little more detail. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
I wouldn't lynch marvel - I have a strong feeling that he is arrogant enough that he actually believes what he's saying. ##Vote BC | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote: what the fuck? BC is known for his scum play, he is not very well known for his town play. I'm going by personal experience. In the games that I've played with BC or seen him play as town (PTP3, LVII), his thoughts have been well-reasoned and useful. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 05:05 Lazermonkey wrote: Yhea but why couldn't he just push someone else and not appear dumb like he is now. Especialy considering he was already under some fire even before his case. I doubt that his intention by voting for Palmar was to make it look like he was doing something. Despite his attitude, it shouldn't be very hard to see that Palmar is likely town. And BC is an excellent player, so the simplest explanation is simply that BC is mafia himself and is trying to discredit Palmar (assuming that marvellosity is actually town, which I think is right). | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 05:14 yamato77 wrote: Not to mention that town Marv doesn't get lynched. He said soi himself before the very first game I played with him. Town Marv would never be in this position because by now people would actually have a town read on him. He hasn't done anything to give me that sense of his intentions this game which makes me all the more comfortable with switching my vote off of Palmar and onto Marv. If you haven't yet realized, marvellosity has a very high opinion of himself. It's actually fairly common for him to have a lot of suspicion on himself and he was almost lynched in Paranoia recently (avoided only by claiming cop). | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 05:29 Lazermonkey wrote: But why discredit Palmar when basically everyone got him down as town? It just makes him look stupid. Unless of course both him and Marv were to be scum, which I guess would be possible but almost too good to be true. Palmar is a player who people judge almost entirely by whether he is right or wrong on the lynches that he leads. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 05:36 Lazermonkey wrote: I'm sorry, I may be abit tired, stupid and what not but I don't see how it's relevant to the point you are making. What I mean is that while most people have said that they consider Palmar town, there will be a backlash against him if he is wrong about marvellosity. BC's post looks to me more like an attempt to fuel that when it starts than anything else. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 05:38 wherebugsgo wrote: Foolishness, I want to hear your thoughts on yamato when you read this. Please tell me which way you would lean with this statement: Yamato being agreeable and not outspoken is indicative of him being scum/not indicative of Which is funny, given that he is often just as wrong as anyone else. He's just extremely obnoxious about taking credit for the lynches where he either gets lucky or was loud enough to get someone who was obvious scum lynched. He's not someone like sandro, you can't judge his alignment based on him being right or wrong. Palmar, I would say, has about a 50% chance of being right. Players like sandro and foolishness I'd put at 80 or 90%. It doesn't actually matter how correct he is or whether or not that is the correct play does it bugs (and I would actually be inclined to agree with you)? The simple fact is that that is how people have been regarding him recently. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
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HiroPro
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On January 05 2013 06:25 marvellosity wrote: why the fuck wouldn't i claim? if i died without claiming, people would go "why didn't you claim?" now you have the choice to lynch the uncounterclaimed cop (and i won't be) or someone else. who cares if people call you bad or dumb. the claim is still completely meaningless, as anyone can make it. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 06:49 Keirathi wrote: This is actually a good point. If marv is scum and fakeclaiming, then scum can't use their full 3 KP tonight. A scum team with a town marv as cop would 100% either kill marv or give up KP to roleblock him. uh, kp gets rounded up doesn't it? | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote: For those who don't know what that means, palmar is a goon. I don't understand anything, so you should explain it to me even if you think I'm dumb as shit and not worth it right now. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:17 Promethelax wrote: Well fuck. Can someone not on a tablet ask in green if the mom role could have checked during the day? BC isn't drazerk. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 07:25 Kurumi wrote: Since I did not write down that Town roles are the usual Night roles I added the rule now. I am sorry for the confusion - I thought it was precise enough because noone never asked. oh what the fuck. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 08:04 Foolishness wrote: lol It's like everyone who looks suspicious has accused Tunkeg of being mafia That's actually how I based a lot of my reads -_- | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 05 2013 22:34 Djodref wrote: @ Hiro Could you expand on this one please ? Do you mean that mafia was pushing Tunkeg/Prom lynch, assuming he is town ? I would like to know how you had Tunkeg as town ? Sure. His attitude and tone in regards to "vets" and general play overall were exactly what I expected from his town play after the last game he was in. The reads post that he made seemed genuine and resembled how he has posted in the past. Tunkeg is a very easy target to attack as mafia (I've done it myself), and none of the people who said that he was suspicious ever presented any good reasons for why he was mafia. The only person who ever tried to make anything resembling a case was debears, and his post was complete nonsense. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
##Vote Jackal | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 07 2013 07:19 Djodref wrote: The thing about the KP being rounded-up is that the OP mentions only the formula for the total KP scum is having at his disposition. What we didn't know is that the remaining KP was also rounded-up. And Hiro was knowing this ! Look the nested quote, he was saying that marvellosity claim was not a problem for scum because they could RB him and still have 3 KP, which shows that he knows how to use mafia KP ! Kurumi explained it later in the thread. On December 29 2012 02:01 Kurumi wrote: Mafia can at any point abstain from using their KP. They can even shoot team mates if they so desire. You can do both actions because you're crafty and night is quite long during the winter. You CAN'T attack with 0.5 KP(because you do have a full 1). Mafia of 5 starts with 2.5KP. If they want not to use it for roles, they might deliver 3KP of damage (since KP is rounded up). Since there is no Watchers, Trackers, Bullet Bills or any other funny roles like roleblocker it doesn't matter if you do or don't decide who's delivering the KP. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 07 2013 06:46 VisceraEyes wrote: What? KP is still 3 with 5 scum...meaning they can dayvig twice, buy a .5 and NK the same way (we're assuming) they did last night. Being down one means nothing in terms of what they can do...it's not until they're down two that they're impeded in any way. This is wrong. They'll have 2.5 and then be rounded after they use whatever powers they choose to sac for. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 07 2013 07:30 Djodref wrote: He said "if they want not to use it for roles" What you were saying is that they could use it for one role, and still get the 3 KP because the remaining part gets round-up. And I think that only mafia has this information. Im going to help you learn how to read since Im feeling nice. You CAN'T attack with 0.5 KP(because you do have a full 1). | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
I f I HAVE to deliver the KP, can I do other things as well? Example: 1KP left, I want to sac 0.5KP for a PR and still punch someone for 0.5KP worth of damage. Can I do both | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 07 2013 08:12 Djodref wrote: Well, it looks like Toad had forgot he has asked this question because he didn't mention this when we were discussing why iamp had been shot at night and not by a day vig. Why did you not make any comment on our discussion at that point ? I wasn't around. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
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http://i.imgur.com/OLzsd.png http://i.imgur.com/zbLVB.png | ||
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HiroPro
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HiroPro
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On January 08 2013 05:36 Promethelax wrote: do you seriously only have town reads on dead guys? Of your scum reads which would be your top lynch tomorrow? hm? sentinel, perfection, grush, vivax, Palmar, yamato, yourself, and lazermonkey. I'd lynch cheesecake. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
##Vote Cheesecake Now let's talk about Toadesstern, since you guys are ignoring him. These are the posts with regards to his view on Palmar that I will be referring to: + Show Spoiler + On January 04 2013 02:10 Toadesstern wrote: ##vote Palmar Let's get this going. Town palmar can be a dick, Town palmar can and will be very much trollish, Town palmar however won't do everything that's possible to make it sure it's hard for town to get reads on people or to even read the thread. That's something not-Town Palmar does. Get lynching guys. On January 04 2013 03:48 Toadesstern wrote: Arkham City: Palmars filter And well about the first statement. I obviously can't prove he doesn't do that as town because that's impossible. Thing is I haven't seen him doing anything this extreme as town, and I've seen him a couple of times. Gosh you're wasting my time I'm off to McD for half an hour. On January 04 2013 04:40 Toadesstern wrote: and I'm not paranoid. I'm gauging the situation :p Though I really am not sure what to make of Palmar, which is troublesome. So what do we see here - Toad is voting for Palmar on some sort of meta read, but has absolutely no desire to explain it beyond "Palmar isn't like this is town. this is not-town Palmar". What motivations could a town Toad have for not willing to explain in detail why the person he's voting for should be lynched? He could either have an inherent dislike for explaining his thoughts or it could be a pressure vote (It's clear that this is not a pressure vote based on how quickly Toad drops the whole thing). At the same time, Toad has no problems with complaining about how marv won't share his thinking with him, so it's very unlikely that Toad doesn't like to explain his thoughts on his lynch target. So then the simplest explanation is that Toad is mafia and does not want to share his reasoning because he simply has nothing substantial. On January 04 2013 06:00 Toadesstern wrote: seriously what's wrong with people this game. I asked you why you'd want to lynch into the guy in particular because I wouldn't be that comfortable lynching into him myself. I get that I might be a bit less on the serious side this game but I'm not being an ass here. You answered the question and that's all there is to it. I never said you're bad or scummy or anything for approaching the situation the way you are, I merely wanted to hear your thoughts about it and yet again I'm getting this kind of "piss off" answer from someone, I haven't figured you out yet, which is the reason I'm asking for your reasoning... that's not complaining at other people as far as I'm concerned. At the same time, the speed with which Toad's view on Palmar changes should be highly concerning. At 2:10, Toad is voting for Palmar and calling him very likely "not-town". Yet just 2.5 hours later, Toad suddenly is unsure about Palmar (It should be noted that Palmar has posted nothing in this time frame beyond expressing a slight doubt of Toad) and seems ready to back off. What could possibly cause this shift - at this time, I'm questioning Toad on his reasoning and supersoft is calling Toad paranoid and saying Palmar will absolutely not be lynched. Yet, Toad's response isn't to loudly refute us (which would be the normal drama queen toad reaction), but instead something that smells much more strongly of mafia - avoiding discussion and instead attempting to quitely appease others. Now let's look at the way that Toad treats Viscera (relevant quotes are in the spoiler): + Show Spoiler + On January 05 2013 03:49 Toadesstern wrote: d1. We're lynching marv right now, mostly because Palmar said so and people like Supersoft and myself agree about it. Alternatives would be a policy lynch on WBG, A lynch on me because I'm weird according to VE (?) A lynch on BC because... I don't know hard to tell... I agree he's not looking good but I wouldn't be comfortable lynching him A lynch on VE for doing stuff other people want to do ALL THE TIME On January 05 2013 05:46 Toadesstern wrote: I really think any kind of lynch between Marv / BC / Hopeless / maybe VE would be awesome right now. But Palmars the man and he says it's Marv and not the other 3 guys, so Marv it is. On January 04 2013 07:46 Toadesstern wrote: the interessting thing, if at all is VE's vote. Though VE and I have somewhat of a history so it's really hard to get something out of that... I don't mind foolish to be honest. On January 05 2013 09:09 Toadesstern wrote: VE is problematic and plays somewhat anti-town no matter of alignment. Palmar once said that VE is one of the strongest mafia-aligned-forces no matter of alignment, resulting in town being at a disadvantage no matter what. That was before he started playing better. Nevertheless he's VERY eratic. He's either good or completly moronic. Pretty much nothing inbetween, which makes it hard to judge him. I've got a history with him because he'll probably tell you that I consider him scummy every game I play with him, no matter of our alignments, even if we're both mafia :3 So basicly you won't find a game of VE in which he's not strange, not a single one. The question is wether that strange is something bad strange. On January 06 2013 07:00 Toadesstern wrote: I'm going to make a bold statement here: I don't think I'm going to get doublestacked n1 again. I really don't think mafia will shoot me, but I might have overdone it a little because apparently there's a bunch of paranoid people who might be willing to shoot me. I'm mainly looking at hopeless, Ex-Tunk (?) and VE here. Tunk is unlikely simply because he replaced out but who knows. Hopeless could end up shooting me and if he does it's probably a townie-move although being utterly retarded because I really don't see mafia wasting KP on me this game, this early on, especially with Marv flipping town. If VE shoots me it's a null I guess... he'd be crazy enough to do that as both alignments and to claim it as both alignments. If he's mafia he could easily be sitting in his QT yelling <i>"look guys, if I shoot Toad and claim 10 secs prior to deadline I'll totally look like a misguided townie and with me yelling at Toad 10 times d1 I have all the reasoning to shoot him while making me look VE-ish!"</i>. I however could also see him do the same thing as town so no idea about him. I guess the best thing is to see who get's shot at deadline, that should give as some hints because right now it's really confusing within the vets. And I really hope possible vigs end up claiming prior to deadline. That's all that's relevant for this particular deadline from my point of view. I'm playing some zelda and will get onto more important things tomorrow. On January 10 2013 00:46 Toadesstern wrote: On the offchance that I'm pulling a WBG here, I'd rather not vote Debears. Who's an option besides him? I somewhat want VE dead, I somewhat want foolish dead but have no idea what's the status with his logs. Throughout his filter, Toad is clamoring for VE to be lynched on absolutely nothing (read it, you won't find a single reason for why VE might be mafia). Everything about his tone and attitude (specifically the constant double-talk where multiple explanations are given for VE's behavior but no real opinion is ever taken) suggest that Toad regards VE as some sort of oddity, not a prime lynch candidate. So then why is Toad pushing for VE to be lynched all the time? It's simply a baseless mafia push - Toad is content to throw dirt at VE without ever trying to really convince others. I'll be around for another half an hour, so talk to me right now please. Viscera, I would very much appreciate it if I could talk with you. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On January 10 2013 03:39 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm here what do you need? Did you read my post on Toad - what parts do you agree/disagree with. Is there anything else about him that you find suspicious? | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
 I'll see you guys tomorrow then. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
##Vote Toadesstern | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
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HiroPro
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Not going to say anything about the play. every single large normal since I started playing here has been like this. Signing up was a bad decision for me since I had neither the time to play nor the belief that town would win. | ||
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