Jesus stop fucking spamming. Coming from me, this game has too many posts and I spam myself quite a lot. The last four pages at least have been nothing but one liners. I went to sleep 7 hours ago and the thread was inflated by 300 posts. What the fuck? What makes any of you think that posting so much useless shit is helpful for finding scum?
First of all, Palmar is right now possibly the most anti-town player in the game. Literally no one has a good reason to be on marv right now, and if you have sheeped Palmar you really need to get your head out of your ass and go read a newbie guide.
Two things on this point:
#1 marv is not a good lynch today. He's a very good asset if he is town and he is quite honestly not that scummy. Certainly he hasn't done much today but you can say this about literally anyone. Nothing in his filter seems to have been motivated by a scum background and everything he has said can be plausibly explained from a town perspective. He's a good enough player that if his reads are bad (they are not) and if he has not done anything for a few days (yes, a couple days-he's a prime night kill target if town) then he should die.
I am highly surprised that Palmar is choosing to attack marv on such weak evidence (he basically cherry-picked his filter) when there is, IMO, a much better vet target in the game that you could make a much stronger case on (Foolishness).
+ Show Spoiler +However I'm not suggesting we kill Foolishness today since he is arguably the best asset for town in the game if he is town, and generally his day 1 is very trolly and lurky
#2 BC is not a good lynch today either. His last post conforms to how I think BC actually thinks about the game. I don't think he is necessarily right, as it is certainly possible for Palmar to be of either alignment-for now, I lean town given that Palmar actually took time to make a spreadsheet (and some of the reads make sense) but I don't think he is a good lynch.
With all of this said, I think the kill for today should be:
Hopeless1der or Meapak.
I would prefer to kill Hopeless today, and so I'm not going to comment on why I find Meapak scummy.
I think Hopeless is the best lynch.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=373946&user=123725¤tpage=2
Looking at Hopeless's posts, he questions a lot and stays mostly under the radar. If you notice, he takes no opinions of his own. He also says things scum are very likely to say: "I don't find this guy scummy, but....idk, it might pigeonhole me later so I might lynch him later!" He said that about literally every player that was brought up. In addition, he took the random lynching VERY seriously, and often the people who take things like that very seriously are either scum or dumb. I certainly don't think Hopeless is dumb, so that leaves scum.
Finally, his meta:
Here are quotes from 4 different games. Try to note the differences, before I point them out myself, and try to see if you can guess his alignment correctly.
+ Show Spoiler [game1] +On November 01 2012 10:49 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 10:40 Acrofales wrote:Hi Mattchew. On the one hand I agree with you, although for different reasons. However, I have seen this kind of finger pointing go terribly wrong too often. It is entirely possible Release is a newbienoob (which I kinda suspect given that I have no clue who he is) and is simply jumping on the first bad play of the game, in what I will happily call the second bad play of the game. My main problem with Release is this post: On November 01 2012 10:09 Release wrote:On November 01 2012 09:05 kushm4sta wrote:On November 01 2012 09:01 Release wrote:
EBWOP: those are three separate ideas, although kushmasta is looking scummy for both trying to change who should claim and being deceitful about it. I'm not being deceitful about it, I just got their names mixed up. I think they should probably both claim actually. @releaseAre you suggesting that I'm trying to trick power roles like vig, dt, etc into mass claiming? Are millers' true alignment revealed upon death? well, you were assigning Mason traits to the miller, which led to the confusion that it did between who should claim. Also, you didn't mention mason but the "town who can talk to each other." You avoided saying mason. Mason is clear. "town who can talk to each other" could be mason, but could be miller if someone assumed you were talking about who YOU thought "could talk to each other." Mafia is a game in which posts can't be editted. People tend to check their posts for any dubious or tentative information. I highly doubt that you "mixed up" their names because things like that tend to get checked, which leads me to believe you said such things on purpose. I wasn't talking about the mass claim. That was rather obvious. This is pathetic and reaks of scum. While I was willing to write off his first post as one derp of accusing another derp, this one just seems malevolent. He is trying to paint a scum reason for making a mistake and dreaming up wild unprovable theories in the process. This is not a town move. It's an easy way for scum to (try to) get a mislynch bandwagon going. Nevertheless, it's a terrible scumplay. Holding off on my vote to see where this goes. Zealos is being Zealos. I have nothing much to say about him yet. Acro, I just want to confirm that you think Kush derped (i.e. is probably town) and that Release might have derped but it was very scummy and you'd lean towards him being scum. Is that correct? Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 10:47 kushm4sta wrote:On November 01 2012 10:30 Release wrote:On November 01 2012 10:17 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 01 2012 10:09 Release wrote: I highly doubt that you "mixed up" their names because things like that tend to get checked, which leads me to believe you said such things on purpose. and I highly doubt you would actually think this I was confused about whom we wanted to claim and which each were. So i checked the OP and the thing Hope posted and asked for clarification. Kush posted things based on a misunderstanding and i don't understand why he would not check the OP or ask for clarification. I mean, in Hope's post-quote, there was clearly a miller AND a mason. So it appears that Kush is setting himself up for a defense ( as I have said), and overeager to contribute. I guess you have never played with me before. Most of the time I don't think before I post and I'm quite capable of derps as town. About your suspicion of me: Let me get this straight. You think my scumplan was to convince the masons to claim then cover my ass by pretending I mixed up masons and millers? That does not sound like a realistic scumplan! I grudgingly agree that kush derps pretty consistently. On November 02 2012 03:36 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 03:22 Mattchew wrote:
Lol if muso has a town partner he should claim now to avoid a mislynch... Anything else would be brain dead logic And then I turn around and say SCUMBUDDY!! And then we argue, probably lynch muso anyways. Do you not see that as a potential outcome? I see that as the more likely outcome at this point. If a mason flips, is their partner revealed?Also, unanswered questions: Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 09:05 kushm4sta wrote:
Are millers' true alignment revealed upon death?
Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 03:29 Zealos wrote:
I really hate this encryption thing, it just doesn't make sense for the point of the game imo. ...He creating "proof" that he is a mason. If he dies, his partner decrypts the message, becomes confirmed town. There are games that explicitly do not allow it, this one made no distinction. Do you think it makes Acro scummy? On November 03 2012 01:57 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 01:34 Muso wrote:It's 3am here and I doubt I'll be awake for the end of day. It doesn't look like Promethelax is coming, and unfortunately lynching him is the only viable option here. Some of you believe otherwise, and I can't stop you. I urge you to trust Acro though (at least for today). He makes sense. If the lynch on me does go through, I implicitly urge you to revisit these last 6 hrs and look at players who were opposed to shifting attention off of me. Hopeless1der is one such player. If in the future Promethelax rolls town, I highly suggest interrogating Hopeless1der. In fact this kind of resistance just strengthens the case against Promethelax. On November 03 2012 01:05 Hopeless1der wrote:Promethelax hasn't checked in yet, but even if it was still prplhz in the game I'd rather lynch Muso. I find his noob act highly incriminating. He knew what he was doing when he fakeclaimed and tried to weasel his way out by playing stupid at first. When that didn't work, he tries to pass it off as a gambit to lure scum NK fire. He keeps putting up more smoke and mirrors every time his last plan didn't work. I'm not comfortable leaving that kind of player around. I'm leaving my vote as it is.
I sincerely hope I get to revisit this post on Day 2, and if I don't please somebody else do it for me. Hopeless1der cannot be trusted. ##vote Promethelax This post just strengthens my resolve to lynch you Muso. "If in the future Promethelax rolls town, I highly suggest interrogating Hopeless1der." In this scenario, I'm scum for NOT wanting to lynch a townie. Please clarify what you mean if you're still around. On November 03 2012 06:49 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 06:48 Acrofales wrote:On November 03 2012 06:41 Release wrote:
7 is the magic number so i ask someone who is tentatively voting muso to switch to promethelax.
It isn't too hard to understand why. Please don't act braindead. Huh? Why do you want the vote to be easily manipulatable by scum? 8 is a good number. You are pretty much condoning last-minute shenanigans with this bullshit. Two people switch at the last second and claim they were doing what you wanted, but didn't see the other's switch. It's stupid. 8 is fine, 9 is better for consolidation. Is that a short answer for "fuck it, lynch Muso"?
+ Show Spoiler [game2] +On July 05 2012 06:59 Hopeless1der wrote:@Lazer, you're already contradicting yourself and its only one post: Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 06:39 Lazermonkey wrote:
YOYO GUYS. I AM Vanilla Townie
There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie. If you don't agree with this please let me know. If noone disagrees I will assume that no townie is ever fake claiming a blue role. Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue.
Geez it was even in the same paragraph. Which one is it?! @Jingle - Well, I didn't (and still don't) know to what it refers. I'd google it, but if its anywhere as bad as it seems, doing so from work is probably a bad idea. This better not give me nightmares... On July 05 2012 07:22 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 07:11 Lazermonkey wrote:On July 05 2012 06:59 Hopeless1der wrote:@Lazer, you're already contradicting yourself and its only one post: On July 05 2012 06:39 Lazermonkey wrote:
YOYO GUYS. I AM Vanilla Townie
There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie. If you don't agree with this please let me know. If noone disagrees I will assume that no townie is ever fake claiming a blue role. Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue.
Geez it was even in the same paragraph. Which one is it?! What do you mean? I don't see a contradiction here... What?...I...Its right there..with the underlined.. - There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie - Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue Is that not a contradiction? or did you mean actually claim as blue, not fakeclaim, because that's literally the only way those two statements don't conflict with one another. Mackin give the poor guy a chance, he's just a little excited I think. I just wanted to give him a heads up so he checks his posts more carefully, that way we can narrow down our scum lists earlier rather than later. On July 05 2012 10:19 Hopeless1der wrote:
This will be a good test to see how a bandwagon gets started then I suppose.
Jingle's done this before, just calling someone out based on their name being strange or the icon next to their name. The early posts are just random crap to get people talking. His post about lurkers is suspicious, but if we let people lurk, there's going to be some scum in the pile.
Throwing an early lynch at lurkers forces them to be more active, so there is more chance at scumslips instead of nothing to go on at all for those players. They all look scummy when they say and do nothing. The last couple games I've played/obs'd have been riddled with people being replaced and lurking and it completely screws with town's ability to make consistent reads. However, most of those games were majority lynch so the lurker problem had a much bigger impact.
If we have scum reads we should definitely push them. I don't think a lynch lurker mentality is that beneficial to town given our voting system. Any lurking scum can jump on any suspicion very easily and not look any worse than the next lurker that just follows the pack. Good scum reads will force them out of the woodwork to cast suspicion on someone else.
And I'm still not casting a vote as we're still waiting on 4 players to make a post and for Evulrabbitz and zen_man to do something relevant. The way rabbitz has disappeared concerns me as he ducked out just as we started getting to the not completely useless posts.
+ Show Spoiler [game3] +On August 03 2012 23:45 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 23:34 Toadesstern wrote:On August 03 2012 23:32 JingleHell wrote:On August 03 2012 21:13 Toadesstern wrote:I'm more interested in VE's intentions actually. - Did he mason someone randomly from the get go? Why wasn't he afraid to randomly hit mafia at all? WBG can be pretty manipulative
- If it was not from the get-go VE probably had a town-read on WBG. If that's the case VE should have no problem at all telling people why he thinks WBG to be town. Someone masoning without even being able to explain why is the most suspicious thing in the world. So VE SHOULD have told WBG why he thinks that he's town if that's really the case.
- Did VE explain why he masoned you WBG?
I'd rather have an answer quite quick than giving VE some time to write something up. This seemed off because he seemed to have stopped for the night by the time I went to sleep. So, I looked. Sure enough, you start posting a case 7 hours and change after VE's last post, you vote somewhere in the 8ish hour range, and say you want fast answers 9 hours after his last post. Asking for an answer quick is one thing if he's posting, but this seems a bit pushy. Trying to force the issue with someone who hasn't posted in hours and use that to make them look scummy? I can't speak for his motives, because they sure as hell don't make much sense to me yet, but yours just seem scummy. I wanted WBG to answer the questions... Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 23:36 JingleHell wrote:
Ah. My apologies. Maybe I should finish my caffeine, I missed that. I'd rather have an answer quite quick than giving VE some time to write something up...Jingle, you can read just fine.
Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 23:33 Glasse wrote:On August 03 2012 23:31 prplhz wrote:
Why don't you like wherebugsgo? Why are you defending him so much? Is he your scum buddy? All he did so far was randomly call 2 names without any proofs. All you have done so far is provide a series of one-liners that are non-committal and dismissive towards prplhz's accusations of your actions thus far. He looks significantly more "town than town can be" by comparison, since he's actively pressuring and trying to get discussion out of you. He asks precisely WHY do you not like wbg, and you throw it back in his face, and expect that to look townie? You kiddin me? ##Vote: Glasse (I still think we should post our votes in this thread for filter/quoting purposes...just don't pull any fake vote shenanigans plz) On August 04 2012 08:58 Hopeless1der wrote:
At a quick once over, Zeph is looking scummiest right now, but Hier just broke my sarcasm meter. While I'm fixing it I'll be looking more closely at Zeph within the next couple hours.
Meanwhile,
##Unvote: Glasse
Sounded like a straightforward read of wbg, considering wbg just shat all over the "mason claim" discussion. I don't like that he jumped to the conclusion that bugs is scum, but at least something to back it up, so Glasse checks out so far.
EBP (Edit before post) and oh crap we already lost a townie.
Role of Zorkmid is Townie or 'unknown'? Its green so I assume townie, but I'd like to confirm. On August 08 2012 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote:I sincerely apologize for my lack of activity. In hindsight I should have requested a replacement as my co-worker went on vacation and I've been working stupid amounts of overtime to make up for it. I will be more active from tonight going forward (still at work right now). My reads today are that between Erandorr, VE and Bugs, there is likely to be scum and I think that it's Erandorr right now. The case against bugs is largely his meta, which I am not familiar with. His mason debacle could go either way, his rage as well. All WIFOM and perhaps "Anti-Town" but NOT the same thing as "Scummy" to me. More trolling than anything else, and look what happened to master troll Grush. This is not enough for me to want to vote him. VE is (or was) vehemently against voting bugs: + Show Spoiler +On August 05 2012 03:44 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, everyone STOP.
This lynch on WBG is not happening.
Having PMed with him, I'm NOT of the opinion that he's scum and I think we should focus on other, actually scummy candidates. You guys are WIFOMing this lynch to shit.
I fully support a talis lynch upon rereading. He literally asked for a NAMECLAIM from everyone guys. LITERALLY.
##Vote: talismania
I think Bugs is town. I don't want to lynch him. slOosh, you in particular I want to hear more reasoning from. Your only gripe with him seems to be his read on prplhz - so...because you disagree with his read he's scum? Really?
I don't like a grush lynch today either - it feels like a copout. But I totally can see a town Bugs wanting to lynch grush today. Grush was a key factor in the scum victory in LVI, for the same shit he's exhibiting now. However, I agree that we should give our vigs a chance to take care of him. We should be aiming for people we specifically think are scum, and for me that's not wherebugsgo. With people meta'ing, hes apparently suspicious due to his lack of activity, which he says is due to his mason role, and sounds plausible to me. His case against Erandorr makes much more sense to me than Eran's defense of it. Eran tried to accuse VE of neglecting questions and received a prompt response, and Erandorr takes it out of turn to dispute it. + Show Spoiler +On August 07 2012 10:48 Erandorr wrote:VE, wtf. Can you please look at those quotes in context? 1st quote: I respond to who seem to think that the raging started with me, not him 2nd : I think his rage is was a tool to dodge any questions he did not want to answer. 3rd: is a response to that guy accusing me of being as guilty of raging as wbg, and using it as part of a case vs me. its not me whining, its me clarifying something someone is not willing to see. 4th: the same, broodking accuses me of starting the shitstorm so once again I try to use "facts" Show nested quote +No I didn't miss it, I don't give a FUCK what your accusation against Bugs is about Show nested quote +Erand you're like...not HEARING logic bro! Bugs already told you why he outted us as masons, and you didn't accept his reasoning! While it inconvenienced my use of the power (as far as like...sneakily getting scum to tell me their seekrits or whatever) it has actually HELPED town in that it has given the rest of the players OUTSIDE of the three of us a means to further their reads on all of us. slOosh said this. I've said this. Yet what do you do when asked to logically argue your case? You point to the same 4 or 5 ILLOGICAL POSTS on the matter!! Liar. About the "wifom" I think you are scum at this point. If you are town then you are one of the biggest morons I have ever seen called "good" at mafia. I also think you probably are scum with WBG, at least I hope you are WBG VE Jingles Broodking Some other random lurker (hassy,bio...? )
##Vote wbgI am out, good luck with the game. The main point is he paraphrased VE in the nested quote's "I don't give a fuck" sentiment when VE was specifically referring to the MASON stuff. This occured AFTER the second quoted post, which was followed by: Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 09:31 Erandorr wrote:
2)Did you miss the part where I explained 30 times that its not at all about the mason thing anymore?
Wasn't the mason thing the whole reason Eran thought bugs was scummy at the start? (Or "anti-town") Erandorr's attempt to pass off VE's case as contradictory is incredibly scummy to me, and he immediately says "I am out", leaving no opportunity to grill him further. Based on this interaction, I find VE to be townie. ##Vote: Erandorr On August 09 2012 02:32 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 02:17 talismania wrote:On August 09 2012 02:15 Hopeless1der wrote:
That to me looks like VE is angry with you and wants you to pay for almost mislynching him. If you flip town, we'll be hard pressed to pick between him and bugs for who to lynch tomorrow after the whole eran-ve-bugs triangle.
I don't know about the 'make up for my folly tonight'. I'm expecting an epic case near the deadline right now. tbh I'm expecting 3 or 4 cases right around the deadline tonight, plus the rest of the mason logs. what do you mean "if I flip town" and then "lynch tomorrow"? You know something about the NKs that I don't? I don't know anything about the NK's. I was making an inference based on the situation you described with him coming up with a vig shot on you. If you were to somehow get shot tonight, you said you suspect VE of having a hand in it, though you can't understand how thats possible if he's a mason. You being shot (by him) would assume hes scum. My comment about the lynch tomorrow was that in no way does you flipping town confirm him as scum. I'm still of the opinion that at least one of VE-Bugs-Eran is scum, and since eran has flipped town my choices there are down to two.
+ Show Spoiler [game4] +On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. "We're lynching you anyway" Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:46 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:42 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 09:27 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:07 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I mean that blues should do what they feel is best with their own judgment and ignore any direction from the "town" Sorry, I should have been more specific. I wondered about this phrase: On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc. What is there to explain? There's a difference between lynching someone for not backing themselves up after they're caught lying or whatever and lynching someone because they don't trust the town circle. It sounded weird. It´s common for the voteleader to be lynched unless he claims (convincingly). As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:55 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues. Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement. Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. Dat Over-reaction: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:42 slOosh wrote:
Cool ... you wanna talk about something else? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? And then of course slo0sh himself points out: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:17 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. I reacted strongly because there was no grounds for the vote / read. I still have a problem with the fact that he keeps emphasizing the uselessness of the post (it isn't, because as clearly seen that people can miss setup information), which I take as soft discrediting of my posts in general. I'm not claiming my opening post is super useful, but to call it useless is unwarranted. That said I can see this coming from a town perspective, so my problem with his play thus far is a matter of taste rather than alignment. On September 04 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Um... this: " My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not" You are saying that he tries to discredit you ---> you think he tried to discredit you ---> if he tried to discredit you, you are saying he wanted to do this and is being deliberately disruptive. Why not just straight answer the question without adding another one? There is a difference in someone discrediting me and someone being deliberately disruptive. Forumite phrased the question in a way that seemingly put words in my mouth as I said the former but not the latter (or never intended to so I checked with my question). Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted. Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hello folks ^^
I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone.
A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker.
Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum. ##Vote: Forumite+ Show Spoiler +Pregame answer for Rewok, I got curious when going through Forumite's filter: On September 03 2012 01:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 00:51 Rewok wrote:
There's a word for arguing for arguments sake but I can't remember it. Anybody want to help me out? No there isn't! + Show Spoiler + Eristic On September 05 2012 03:19 Hopeless1der wrote:Because it's not necessarily a mistake at that point, its just a fake-claim. It kind of makes sense for an assa to do it, but not for a blue because scum have no way to track visits. We've since learned that Nosy Neighbors are not self-aware. Mistake or not, the fakeclaim was made by MATTCHEW. Not some random player, but specifically the one that Toad referred to and referred to again when you continued to poke at him. And Rewok, Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:08 Rewok wrote:
Ottox - This is a lot of fighting for a random townie. Seems like a really specific save.
If Mattchew turns up Mafia, my next vote is Otto, for sure. Likewise, I'm not voting Ottow if Mattchew turns up green / blue.
That's a stupid way to look at things. Do you think Ottoxlol is legitimately trying to save Matt or just being a jerk because he won't read. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:
need an honest answer. What do you consider worse:
a) People not thinking while posting / reading
b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Ninja'd by Toad. Oh well. On September 07 2012 01:54 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 09:04 DoYouHas wrote:Now that we are sure about Matt, I think I have found scum in Hopeless1der. Hopeless and Broodking are the two people who posted cases on people other than Mattchew (Forumite and Toad, respectively) in the time period between when BC's attack and Palmar's confirmation. This I think is a very important period of time because the uncertainty of the town on how to deal with BC and Matt makes it the best time for scum to try and divert the wagon of their scumbuddy. Both Hopeless and Brood's cases could have been made with that intent, but I see Hopeless as scum easier than I see Brood. Brood had expressed his distaste for Toad earlier in the game and just doesn't fit the reluctant busser as well as Hopeless. I have already taken issue with some of his case on Forumite Here. But when you combine his case with the post he made a page earlier. You have to admit that it looks awfully like he is attacking BC (the main proponent of a Matt lynch) and then trying to divert to another target. Not convinced this is what he was doing? Here is the first line of his case on Forumite: On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:
Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite:
Moving on to his "voteswitch" On September 04 2012 23:45 Hopeless1der wrote:
1.I never actually did vote in the first place, but anyways:
##Unvote: Forumite
##Vote: Mattchew
2.Reasoning: See the entire fucking thread. 1. - He never did vote Forumite. this reads to me exactly like he was trying to use his case to divert the Matt bandwagon, and after Palmar confirmed the fakeclaim, is trying to save face. (Funny how nobody seems to call him out for this voteswitch despite searching for defenders of Matt.) 2. - He doesn't seem to happy to be switching to a guaranteed fakeclaim that is very likely scum right here, odd.
After Hopeless' vote has settled onto Mattchew I note 2 more things that read scummy to me. First, in these two posts (1)(2) Hopeless jumps at the chance to be the information provider, a very easy way to 'contribute' and with someone as inactive as Hopeless a definite scumtell. Second, On September 05 2012 07:19 Hopeless1der wrote:
-snipped massive nested quotes-
The whole point of his case is that you pushing DP wasn't a real scum read, it was errant Day 1 bullshit. Which most of the thread was at that point. I still think he's scummy because that's a shitty case at the time it arose, but it's reasonably consistent, despite the misinformation. This waffley statement is definitely something I would expect from scum.
To sum up, I think Hopeless1der fits a reluctant busser that is trying to slide by extremely well and I want to lynch him ASAP. In my filter, I have this post: + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 12:52 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 14:34 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Nosy neighbor is standard miller(the neighbor doesn't know they are nosy)?
Blues have to visit their target as well as Mafia, correct?
Check out this post on page 8. It was never answered in thread and it has been edited. In addition, the set-up appears to have been tweaked: Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 22:12 Palmar wrote:
Due to slight setup tweaks, mafia now has permanent 2kp. It will not change over the course of the game. Take note, however, that no member of the mafia can deliver more than 1 kp, so effectively the mafia will drop to 1kp when there is only one member left.
(page 9, again it's been edited) Moral of the story is we don't know and BC needs to stop bullshitting us if he does in fact know something that the rest of us seem to have missed. Followed by my case on Forumite in this post: + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. "We're lynching you anyway" Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:46 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:42 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 09:27 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:07 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I mean that blues should do what they feel is best with their own judgment and ignore any direction from the "town" Sorry, I should have been more specific. I wondered about this phrase: On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc. What is there to explain? There's a difference between lynching someone for not backing themselves up after they're caught lying or whatever and lynching someone because they don't trust the town circle. It sounded weird. It´s common for the voteleader to be lynched unless he claims (convincingly). As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:55 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues. Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement. Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. Dat Over-reaction: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:42 slOosh wrote:
Cool ... you wanna talk about something else? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? And then of course slo0sh himself points out: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:17 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. I reacted strongly because there was no grounds for the vote / read. I still have a problem with the fact that he keeps emphasizing the uselessness of the post (it isn't, because as clearly seen that people can miss setup information), which I take as soft discrediting of my posts in general. I'm not claiming my opening post is super useful, but to call it useless is unwarranted. That said I can see this coming from a town perspective, so my problem with his play thus far is a matter of taste rather than alignment. On September 04 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Um... this: " My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not" You are saying that he tries to discredit you ---> you think he tried to discredit you ---> if he tried to discredit you, you are saying he wanted to do this and is being deliberately disruptive. Why not just straight answer the question without adding another one? There is a difference in someone discrediting me and someone being deliberately disruptive. Forumite phrased the question in a way that seemingly put words in my mouth as I said the former but not the latter (or never intended to so I checked with my question). Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted. Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hello folks ^^
I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone.
A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker.
Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum. ##Vote: Forumite+ Show Spoiler +Pregame answer for Rewok, I got curious when going through Forumite's filter: On September 03 2012 01:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 00:51 Rewok wrote:
There's a word for arguing for arguments sake but I can't remember it. Anybody want to help me out? No there isn't! + Show Spoiler + Eristic I was not convinced by BC's argument of "You're Lying, You're Scum" and didn't piece together the fact that I would need to PM the mods to confirm the miller self-awareness debacle. That was really stupid on my part but thankfully Palmar dealt with it for us. The thread was in a shitty place and I wanted to focus on something other than just calling people liars. I wasn't necessarily attacking BC, I just wanted him to stop strong-arming the thread and actually put together a coherent thought towards HOW he knew he was right. His argument to me was " I'm right, suck it bitch" and I found that infuriating. (I completely understand why he did it after the fact, fear of modkillage and whatnot). In an effort to get away from that, I made a case on someone I found scummy and put it forth to try to get some other discussion going. Once Palmar confirmed Mattchew's lie, I was 100% behind his lynch and didn't want to waste time being questioned about why. Nor did anyone bring it up, as you pointed out. The reason why I didn't vote for forumite is...I forgot about the voting thread; Whoops? The reason I pointed out the fact I didn't vote for forumite is...I didn't vote for forumite and wanted to be as transparent as possible about what I'd done. I didn't mean to 'fakevote' but it happened and I wanted to make it clear what my intentions were, so I explicitly unvoted Forumite in order to Vote Mattchew. In regards to point (2) I don't seem happy? What the fuck is this statement? How do you determine happiness based on my voteswitch to a confirmed liar? Why should I have to explain the reasoning when its in the thread for the past however many pages ever since BC knew Mattchew was lying. If anything, this would have been me HARD bussing Matt, not reluctantly as you've claimed stated. I will concede that the "provider of information" posts are scummy. It also turns out I -(think)- I was wrong in my discussion with BC(2), I'm sure that's going to make me scum for pushing misinformation. My response to Shady(1) especially looks bad given the length of my filter. Not much I can do to change that now. The waffley statement was me asserting that while I don't think Miltonkram was 'lying' (which you snipped out of the quote btw), I still think he was scummy because his case was complete shite relative to the pace of the thread when he made it. Ergo I think Milton is scum. Is that less waffley?
Why does Matt flipping red imply that I'm red as well? Why can't I be continuing to hunt scum? I still think Forumite is scum. My case was not an effort to divert the thread, it was an attempt to focus it. I wasn't around to do so, and feel free to call me scum for not following through before, but wait and see, you'll run out of steam on that front in a moment.
##unvote
##vote Hopeless1der
|
EPT
