I'm also in the boat that this would be bad if it started right away, but that doesn't seem like an actual risk.
Looney Lynching Mini Mafia
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austinmcc
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I'm also in the boat that this would be bad if it started right away, but that doesn't seem like an actual risk. | ||
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I could easily see there being a role in the game that can influence lynches. Vote stealing, doublevoting, or a mechanic that interacts with lynches in some other way. I don't want to go with any kind of plan that relies on the slimmest possible margin, and would rather us have a little wiggle room to ensure that things proceed as we want them to. | ||
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Which is probably a good thing. | ||
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On October 10 2012 14:27 EchelonTee wrote: 1. It gives "credibility" to people who are knocked out early, while not forcing them to do anything significant. A good good good example of this problem was in Liar Game 1. Basically half of the people were immune to the lynch depending on a Yes or No vote; while town tried to make the immune people accountable for their actions, because they have no fear of the lynch they really have no pressure on them to do anything at all. A hilarious example is sandroba himself; despite being widely called scum since D1, because he was immune to lynch through flukes, he stayed alive for days manipulating people here and there. If we force everyone to vote on everything, the knocked out people can make random reasons for their votes and look active. However, if we don't force everyone to vote on everything, knocked out people will have to talk about things on their own prerogative, exposing their true intentions. ET I mostly like the points you made, but I get hung up on this one. Yes, the people who are safe as of Round 1 are immune to lynch for 72 more hours. However, On October 10 2012 11:00 kitaman27 wrote: You are not required to vote. If we don't force everyone to vote on everything, nobody is actually forced to vote. Nobody should be checking out for 72 hours once they're safe in Round 1, but the voting rules wouldn't require anyone to make reasoned choices later on that we could hold them accountable to. Moreover, while 1-vote-per-matchup removes some of what town can learn by how everyone votes (by limiting their options), people can also throw around blocks of votes with very little reasoning. 5 single votes with poor reasoning doesn't help us, but neither does a block of 5 votes on a single person with poor reasoning. Another point is that I can see the similarities between this and liar game, but the lynching mechanic here is ... almost unknown? Whereas in Liar Game people were going to be safe every day by chance, we don't know what future lynches will look like. It removes some of the ability to plot long-term, like in Liar Game how answers and votes were planned in advance, because we don't know what the lynching scheme is long-term. As long as mafia doesn't know either, I actually think not knowing future lynches favors town just because it negates some of mafia's ability coordinate actions in a way they KNOW will be beneficial to them. More reason, in my mind, for them to have some sort of lynch-affecting role or mechanic. | ||
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On October 11 2012 00:06 kushm4sta wrote: metaread on momentoss: he is this dumb as town I know that from liquid city. I think I've been suspicious of townMementoss in every game I've played with him, something he does always gives me a mafia read on him. However, he's not dumb as town. I don't care if you're sober or high or on PCP while playing this game. I found it tremendously difficult in LC to wade through all your posting to find the bits that I thought were well-reasoned or interesting or could give me an actual read on you. I'm all for silliness in these games, but if it's just constant in every post then it's going to hamstring your effectiveness as town because people either won't pay attention to you or won't bother to pick out the good points you make from among the bad. | ||
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I guess it must have been a master plan from the Alien Invaders who put themselves all as the lowest seeded people. I would put focus on eliminating players number 10, 11 and 12 this round if possible. You said your post was not to be taken seriously. But I don't know if you mean the entire post or not. Was this particular portion of your post unserious?On October 10 2012 19:31 Djodref wrote: I'd like to hear you, not anyone else, spell out more specifically why you find discussing the lynch mechanics to be inherently scummy. If mafia are going to look like they are participating while discussing the rules, that implies that townies will be discussing the rules, otherwise there's nothing to "participate" in, everyone who discusses rules has claimed scum. How do you separate hiro as scum from town just on the basis of his discussion of the rules?I totally second Thrawn's last post. I think giving ourselves rules for voting is going to give mafia an opportunity to blend in and/or to take advantages of these rules. I guess it should be ok if we just vote for the people we find scummy. Moreover, the more time we discuss about the rules we should use, the less time we have for scumhunting. It's also a golden opportunity for the mafia to look like they are participating while discussing the rules. According to this, Hiropro and Daoud have made scummy posts so far because it looks like they want to focus the discussion of the lynch rules. Also Daoud first post came off as weird in my eyes. It looks like he's going to prepare an excuse like "I didn't understand today's lynch principle" for later. @Daoud What was your motivation for your first post ? You guys are both in a first-round matchup against each other. This is currently the bracket I'm most interested in. | ||
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He seems to have caught up, checked voting thread, noticed Hopeless1der's comment. Didn't answer my question, didn't acknowledge it. His first post doesn't hold water with me, the rules discussion = scum bit doesn't hold up at all, and that's really the only thing he's said of substance. | ||
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Djodref, even if imposing rules on ourselves is detrimental, how do you separate those people talking about the lynch mechanics from other players talking about the lynch mechanics? Is it purely that they left open-ended questions? | ||
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On October 11 2012 02:24 Mementoss wrote: Well I decided to go through the current matchups since thats all our votes count for today: 1. Mementoss: Town Hopeless1der: Hasn't really attempted to create any discussion thus far, and is pretty lurky. Most of his content seems to be in aasking questions about the set-up. Only thing worth while he has said for an opinion has been on prplhz for role-fishing. Pretty agressive against prplhz in his first post. Reading null to me right now I hope he starts posting more discussion worthy things. He is already ahead in the voting brack and I don't have a scum read on him. Therefore I have no reason to vote him. 2. OriginalName: Has been active after the game has started and chose not to participate in any discussion. Other than that nothing. Seems pretty scummy. Already ahead by 3 votes, I have no reason to use a vote on him right now. AustinMcc: He seems to be posting openly about his thoughts about the set-up and teh game in general. My meta read on austin is he likes to play the set-up a bit heavily as town. However, he is mostly all set-up posts as of now. It's still early but later I hope he gets a bit more aggressive with his scum hunting. Still looks town to me. Don't need to vote him right now. 3. prplhz: Id like to here his current opinion on this, and expand if he has a scum read on da0ud or if he thinks hes scummy and why. Or was his vote influenced on that he thinks djodref is town? His first post read very strange to me as well, asking about roles. Reading Null to me. Kushy: I don't understand fluffy explanation lines like this. Just try to find scum and the voting will come. The rest of his filter seems to be worrying about the setup with 1 liners about his confusing and commented on everyones plans about the vote. I have only played 1 game with him, but I find it hard to read him, and don't understand where he is coming from at times. He is currently losing to prphlz, so I am going to put a vote on him in round 1. Reading a tad scummy, but I am not sure with this guy to be honest. 4. This feels like an easy way out round 1, to not get discussion going on actual reads. Just saying Im going to vote the lurkers is a pretty lazy way for scum to get through the voting. He calls me a lurker despite having almost the same post count as me at the time of this post. He is currently reading scummy to me and I will put a vote on him despite him being currently in the lead. Du0ad: Opened with an awkward joke post, hasn't said anything so far, lurking hard. I hope to see him join round 1 and get some votes in. Not voting him just because I have a bit of a scum read on djoref. ##Vote: kushm4sta x1 djoref x1 I really like the idea of having everyone do this. Every matchup, who you prefer to see go on, WHY you prefer that, even if you don't vote them because you don't need to. This post alone makes me want to send hopeless1der to the next round in your bracket. I can't vote in my matchup, prefer to see ON sent on. I'd like to see prphlz's thoughts on the double D matchup. He gave an initial read based on their first posts. Has now asked ET about that matchup, without providing any more thoughts on his own. Not sure on the prplhz/kush matchup atm. Right now leaning Djoref on the last matchup, but would like to see da0ud answer as to whether his entire first post was a joke, or certain parts were serious (Besides the people with byes have a better chance to be lynched, which is true but not an opinion or anything...just pointing out something that's true). | ||
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Sir prpl of the hz, Please be so kind as to tell us who you want to advance in each matchup and why. Do take extra care with the double D matchup. | ||
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da0ud I don't think first time scum (at least here) would come in, drop a post that wasn't serious, and then jet forever. I would think he'd be concerned about being found out, do something more. His first post DOES feel kind of constructed, Hi again guys! and "Daoud" to sign out. But I think it's a post constructed by a townie. Like a scummy constructed post would be in response to a question, or would be pushing someone, or doing SOMETHING. A post that's constructed and does NOTHING doesn't point scum to me. I also think that's an important difference, and just hammering at "constructed = scum" is possibly scummy. Just like "possibly scummy" is scummy for being wishy washy... I also think that mentioning someone might have planned for scum to be the low numbers in the game is probably not from mafia? That sounds like paranoid townie talk to me. Djodref I already poked at it, and HiroPro seems to see the same thing. On October 10 2012 19:31 Djodref wrote: He draws a distinction between rules talk and scumhunting. But there were so many people talking about rules, and it has to happen. He singles out two, based on their open question, and based on them being "willing to spend more time discussing the lynch mechanics." I do not love that distinction (mildly scummy). I do not like that it comes after the fact. If I knew more about djodref, i'd question whether he's the sort of player to find people who ask for MORE mechanics talk scummy over people who bring it up but don't actually carry discussion forward. (He's played a newbie game? Does anyone off the top of their head know if he called anyone out for...stifling discussion? Usually asking questions and moving things forward is GOOD, even if it's about a suboptimal topic, and stopping discussion is the bad bit). Moreover, the more time we discuss about the rules we should use, the less time we have for scumhunting. It's also a golden opportunity for the mafia to look like they are participating while discussing the rules. According to this, Hiropro and Daoud have made scummy posts so far because it looks like they want to focus the discussion of the lynch rules. Also Daoud first post came off as weird in my eyes. It looks like he's going to prepare an excuse like "I didn't understand today's lynch principle" for later. I want to see Djodref move though. I want to see prplhz move through over kush, although right now Djodref is probably my top read? Generic "Sandroba should post more" comment. | ||
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On October 11 2012 08:12 kushm4sta wrote: Thrawn did you read my point about how it's a scum mentality to say that byes are at a "disadvantage"? vote daoud IMO! I really dont want to overrule other people's votes by voting more than once. I also do not want to get lynched, and I am town. I view starting one step closer to lynch as a "disadvantage." Yes, it's kind of weird phrasing, but townies don't want to get lynched either. I don't read that as really pointing one way or the other, whereas I read his comment about wanting to lynch seeds 10, 11, and 12 because they might have rigged the bracket that we have been told by mods was random as a townie thing. It shows...unhealthy paranoia about things that cannot be true? | ||
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On October 11 2012 08:16 austinmcc wrote: I'm of the opposite mind as prplhz and kush on the double D lynch. da0ud I don't think first time scum (at least here) would come in, drop a post that wasn't serious, and then jet forever. I would think he'd be concerned about being found out, do something more. His first post DOES feel kind of constructed, Hi again guys! and "Daoud" to sign out. But I think it's a post constructed by a townie. Like a scummy constructed post would be in response to a question, or would be pushing someone, or doing SOMETHING. A post that's constructed and does NOTHING doesn't point scum to me. I also think that's an important difference, and just hammering at "constructed = scum" is possibly scummy. Just like "possibly scummy" is scummy for being wishy washy... I also think that mentioning someone might have planned for scum to be the low numbers in the game is probably not from mafia? That sounds like paranoid townie talk to me. Djodref I already poked at it, and HiroPro seems to see the same thing. He draws a distinction between rules talk and scumhunting. But there were so many people talking about rules, and it has to happen. He singles out two, based on their open question, and based on them being "willing to spend more time discussing the lynch mechanics." I do not love that distinction (mildly scummy). I do not like that it comes after the fact. If I knew more about djodref, i'd question whether he's the sort of player to find people who ask for MORE mechanics talk scummy over people who bring it up but don't actually carry discussion forward. (He's played a newbie game? Does anyone off the top of their head know if he called anyone out for...stifling discussion? Usually asking questions and moving things forward is GOOD, even if it's about a suboptimal topic, and stopping discussion is the bad bit). I want to see Djodref move though. I want to see prplhz move through over kush, although right now Djodref is probably my top read? Generic "Sandroba should post more" comment. Lol, I'm leaving the generic comment in that quote because it still applies. I just don't see first time scum on here making that point about low seeds rigging the lynch. Nor does the post feel constructed in a manner that pushes anything scummy. If you think a constructed entrance post is scummy on its own, that a townie would just jump in whereas only a scum is careful right from the start, then I could see that angle as well. | ||
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On October 12 2012 04:05 prplhz wrote: @EchelonTee So sandroba kept up his appearance for the first couple of hours and since then he's had a "hunch" post and one measly contribution. Do you really think this looks like townie sandroba? Last sandroba townie game I remember was Space Station where he ruled the town with an iron fist and nailed like 5 out of 6 scum in the first two days. Fucking ridiculous. I don't think that this looks like townie sandroba at all. When sandroba is town he can do magic but there's none of that right now. This is day1 and that always makes me a little weary of lynching a player of sandroba's caliber but it's a 96 hour day so I have no problems putting a little pressure on him. Right now I have no problems with him advancing over kushm4sta, I actually prefer that since kushm4sta is showing a lot more interest in this game. Town in bureaucracy. (I understand that may not be a good comparison because a lot of his play and interaction centered around his role and the splintered mafia team made scumhunting slightly different at first). This is almost exactly my thought process, though. I hated the thought of lynching Palmar earlier even when he was doing nothing, and I get that feeling about Sandroba even though I've seen him in games less. I think the setup works very well for this, though, push Sandroba through to the next round, and keep watching him for contributions/anything. I can't tell if it's just purely like telegraphed pressure voting (we're gonna vote for you but you won't get lynched until at least 48 hours from now) or if there's actual more weight behind votes here, since each round you pass increases your chances at actually getting lynched, especially if your opponent is mafia and they're making any moves. So, I like sending Sandroba forward over kush. | ||
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He dropped off the face of the earth, and was either replaced or modkilled partway through. Or...maybe we lynched him because he disappeared, I think that was actually what happened? In any case, I don't know his meta and have only played in one game that he was actually active in, but I wouldn't use LVI as the basis of an opinion on his play. | ||
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On October 12 2012 10:30 kushm4sta wrote: ET was lynched largely due to inactivity on the second day. yeah not the best game it was just the most recent. I don't know him well and I haven't fully formed a read on this game. I'm willing to place a vote or two on djo if that puts him through, and try to figure out ET later. Djo WAS very jokey and casual in that matchup post, but he also lost R1 to someone who had a very joke-y post, which was one thing that gave some of us (or just me?) a town read on him. If djo gets townie points for being casual and jokey, they're massively reduced because of that. If something is pointed out as townie, and then you do it, I don't know if it's because you're town or because you want to look that way. | ||
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On October 13 2012 07:22 thrawn2112 wrote: Austin I know you like posting walls of text about anything and everything.... are you here? I'm here. I've got a couple general thoughts, and need to check and see whether applying them to what's happened shakes out anyone. I'll post a wall or two shortly | ||
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Mementoss v. HiroPro Kush v. da0ud me v. prplhz | ||
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On October 13 2012 09:39 thrawn2112 wrote: austin was there a point to that other than asking for reads? Yeah. A couple (1) ON on D1 and D2 got ALL the votes in his matchups. Nobody voted me. Nobody voted HiroPro. It's one part of the bracket where we've got very little information, and I'm worried that there's been NO pushback against him. It even worries me that nobody's really saying that, if he's scum and he's uncommunicative so they're cutting him loose, at least scum should be saying "Hey guys, nobody is voting against him, maybe he's not scum?" Or...that's what I'm thinking. Based on that, I want to push Hopeless1der just on principle, to see what happens and because it feels unlikely ON is scum if you look PURELY at the voting on D1 and D2. But when I look through his filter...I don't get a scumread off of it. I'm not working with much, but the constant asking about who will be around at deadline feels like an actual concern, rather than an act. Hopeless asks mementoss for mementoss's read on Hopeless's D1 unvotes, mildly townie (Calling attention to it, having someone scrutinize you voluntarily). The unvote in part to not throw away votes I'm mildly townie on as well. So...I actually don't really like that matchup at all. I'll send ON through because I'm more worried about him based on votes and speculation rather than what he's done. Hopeless1der's whole look scummy to catch scum thing is ... null to me, but some of his other stuff is mildly townie to me. I don't want to just leave it at that and not interact with the matchup though, so I figure I'll ask Hopeless1der about some people he hasn't mentioned too much. See how quick and thoroughly he answers, see who he picks and why. It's a variety of answers and reasons - no vote, vote kush even though I think he's town because x, vote prplhz because I think he's scum. I like that. (2) We're too complacent with the matchups. This is a 96 hour day, but...we're not playing this right if we talk ONLY about the matchups. We ought to all be scumhunting EVERYWHERE. There's a chance there are no scum in the final 4, no scum on one side of the bracket, etc. I realized that we're not making good use of our 96 hour D1 if we focus only on the people who can still be lynched. The more we discuss and the more we scrutinize everyone D1, the better our future reads will be. It's like...I don't want this to be GSL Open 2, waiting and waiting and waiting. So, specifically, I chose some matchups of people that have been safe since the first 24 hours. Don't neglect to look em over just because we can't lynch them D1. Mementoss, me, HiroPro, we all sort of got by easily and so I wanted to see what he thought about that set of people. | ||
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Sandroba...I guess he goes through to the finals? I just can't shake the feeling that ON doesn't feel like he's got a scum team behind him. But none of the other players are flashing SCUM SCUM SCUM to me. One reason I think we need to look back at people who are already safe. We may not know the lynch mechanic for D2, but everyone will be back on the table (probably?). | ||
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On October 13 2012 10:05 kushm4sta wrote: @austin will you let me push 1der through with like 5 votes? or will you outvote me? What do you think about his response to those matchup questions? | ||
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On October 13 2012 10:10 thrawn2112 wrote: austin to your point about ON going though the bracket uncontested, the same goes for hopeless. so following the logic you used for ON, that would suggest that hopeless is also town right? I want to draw a distinction based on hopeless having more posts/activity, more to be held accountable for, but . . . I'm not sure that's a meaningful distinction between the two? For some reason I'm only thinking about ON that way, because whereas hopeless has been pushed somewhat for being scummy, ON has been heavily pushed for being absent. I'm like searching for other tools to try and get a read on ON, even if they're just speculation. | ||
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On October 13 2012 10:13 kushm4sta wrote: honestly I think they are dumb questions that he could answer however he wants because they have no significance. Also I think we should focus on who is actually getting lynched... it's an important decision not to be taken lightly. Having a discussion with real ramifications will help our scumhunt tomorrow, because we will have more material to go on. I think it's very possible that there is no scum amongst the 4 left, but I'm going to wait until today is over to pursue other people. Please answer my question. You threatened this yesterday with ET also. I want a concrete answer. Will you outvote me if I vote bomb lder? I just wanted your answer to that question before I answered you. No, I'm not going to outvote someone on that matchup. A couple people have bombed votes on that matchup, I'm not confident enough in either to want to push and sway that matchup. | ||
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You and your hypothetical scumbuddies are hanging out in QT, discussing how to play out the matchups and how you want to vote and do scummy stuff and whatnot. The following questions come up, as to how each of you wants to do things. How do you respond? Do you guys make sure to sometimes be on opposite sides of a matchup? Or do you not care if 2 scum players vote together the entire way through D1? Say in round 1 or round 2 there's a matchup that you want to influence, one of your scumbuddies is neck and neck with a townie. Do you just vote that matchup? Or do you vote that matchup + 1 or 2 that you don't care about, in order to hide the vote you actually want to make in with some that don't make a difference to you? Is there any particular player you think is a likely D1 mislynch, just looking at player list and like...the first couple pages of the game. If so, who? ET, I'd like to see your answers to those questions as well. You had some setup talk at the beginning that I liked, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about the setup from the perspective of you playing as ET. | ||
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On October 13 2012 10:20 HiroPro wrote: austin bro, how come you're not asking any llama questions? I think there are some good targets for llama questions here. I gotta expand my horizons. I've been kicking around some other interested questions that I'm asking, but I haven't yet felt the need to go back to the toaster/sherpa/llama well this game. (AMG HE DIDN'T DO THAT IN APERTURE AND HE'S NOT DOING THAT HERE, MUST BE SCUMZZZZZZZZZ). | ||
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On October 13 2012 10:13 kushm4sta wrote: honestly I think they are dumb questions that he could answer however he wants because they have no significance. Also I think we should focus on who is actually getting lynched... it's an important decision not to be taken lightly. Having a discussion with real ramifications will help our scumhunt tomorrow, because we will have more material to go on. I think it's very possible that there is no scum amongst the 4 left, but I'm going to wait until today is over to pursue other people. I think he can, for the most part, answer them how he wants. But some ways of answering those questions are going to look townier or scummier, and I want to see his thoughts on some of those players regardless of how he'd play the matchups, as well as dumb minor stuff like the speed at which he answers. I'm not ready to pursue others yet, but it's something we should all be thinking about. Keep noticing that themed games sometimes get too wrapped up in the theme and not in the basic scumhunting that should be happening regardless of the themed stuff around it. If we spent these 24 hours looking at only 4 players, and then next 24 hours looking at only 2 players, that's a whole day in a normal mafia game that we wouldn't have even been filtering 2/3 the playerbase. The lynch isn't to be taken lightly, sure, but it's getting too complacent in scumhunting to only think of today's lynch. | ||
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If nothing else, it also keeps scum active. With the lynch, they know who they need to push or not push, how to play out the bracket. But they probably don't have any kind of plan in place to deal with non-lynch scumhunting right now. I think it's a good area to shake something loose, catch someone off guard. | ||
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You and your hypothetical scumbuddies are hanging out in QT, discussing how to play out the matchups and how you want to vote and do scummy stuff and whatnot. The following questions come up, as to how each of you wants to do things. How do you respond? Do you guys make sure to sometimes be on opposite sides of a matchup? Or do you not care if 2 scum players vote together the entire way through D1? Say in round 1 or round 2 there's a matchup that you want to influence, one of your scumbuddies is neck and neck with a townie. Do you just vote that matchup? Or do you vote that matchup + 1 or 2 that you don't care about, in order to hide the vote you actually want to make in with some that don't make a difference to you? Is there any particular player you think is a likely D1 mislynch, just looking at player list and like...the first couple pages of the game. If so, who? | ||
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On October 13 2012 11:45 EchelonTee wrote: EBWOP: I'm not interested in talking about this stuff. Scum play varies wildly from player to play. While good town play is very similar across the scum (you should catch scum), different scum players play differently. Most scum players would play safe and try and stay distant from their scumbuddies, but try and protect them lightly. I don't care about that at all. I bus, I soft defend, I hard defend, I do whatever if I think it'll let me win. The best scum players are unpredictable. If you want to ask me what is most likely for mafia to do, it should be pretty obvious, but that's not what I would do. I don't want to ask what is most likely for mafia to do, just yourself if you were/are mafia this game. Interested in your personal thought process and answers. | ||
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On October 13 2012 22:51 sandroba wrote: Sandroba, while I can see that asking you to explain yourself is immediately going to be followed by judging your explanation and whether it's townie or scummy, there's still value in explaining yourself period.What is even there to talk about? Over the time I've been playing mafia I grew more and more away from hard analysis and began to use apparent integrity and sincerity of people's post as a way to tell scum and town appart. That means that the way I do it is completely subjective to what I consider to be a post (from the particular person I'm looking at) to be honest. Of course the method is not flawless and is completely dependant on my ability to make that judgement, but it served me right in the past and I see no reason to change it. From that place you can see clearly that any explanation I provide you with for my reasoning wouldn't apply to everyone and is not verifyable. What you can do is check for the same things I do. The motives and truthfulness behind my posts and see if you think I'm trying to put on a show or I'm speaking my mind without the fear of consequence. If you can make that distinction then you will have a good idea of my alignment. The stupid exercise of breaking posts apart and endelessly saying things are "scummy" without even defining and not even knowing what scummy means is what brings this tiresome conversation that I refuse to take part of where everyone indulges each other and strikes each other's dicks. Especially, and if you're town then I'm oversimplifying here, if you look for honesty in posts and want us to gauge whether you're speaking your mind. We can't know if you're speaking your mind or being honest about your reads unless there's something beneath them and we know what that is. Saying "I think x is scum, check for what I check for to find out why" doesn't feel like speaking your mind. Then while I was typing this out you responded to a few of the reads, so...thanks, maybe. | ||
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On October 13 2012 22:52 Mementoss wrote: Why is apathetic voting horseshit? Is horseshit just horseshit, or do you find it to come from a town or scum horse?prp: 8 Remain ON: 8 Remain da0: 9 Remain Austin: 9 Remain This^^ this right here is horseshit. Apathetic voting up towards the last round is unacceptable. I think everyone should only be using 5 of there votes 3 of these players alone trump the rest of the players in the game. Sandroba doesn't even have anyvotes to defend himself while ON has 9. Actually, everyone should only be using 1 vote, and we can get some sort of real full out majority going where everyone is involved. For the people with 0 votes left. ##Mementoss vote "Player Name" and I will use one of my votes towards giving you a voice in this lynch. I have a feeling scum has WAY too much control right now. But there is a possibility its too late anyways, this method should give more information to where people are at in their thought process. Why should everyone only be using one vote? Why are you giving out votes to anyone with 0 votes left? I had planned to give away either blocks of 3 or blocks of 4 votes to people I strongly feel are town, but not to ANYONE, and not based on the number of votes they have left. How is having no votes a good criteria for who you want to give more control over the lynch to, instead of using a criteria like your townreads? | ||
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On October 13 2012 23:57 Mementoss wrote: Is apathetic voting just horseshit, or townie/scummy horseshit? You think everyone who hasn't voted much is scummy? Cuz that's probably the whole scumteam if so.what how much info are we gunna get when half the people cant vote on the lynch, and the other half have no say in the final decision. The lynch is left up to those 4 players, and since one of them is in the hot seat. He can use 9 votes to save himself. I guess playing as passive as you and not putting any reads on anyone to too late so you don't have to vote and can sheep and holding all your votes is your strategy. I guess thats cool >_>. If you want info, why should everyone only use 1 vote? Wouldn't you get more from people choosing the number of votes they want to use? And again, why are you choosing the criteria of "people with 0 votes" as those to give votes to this round? | ||
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On October 14 2012 00:31 Mementoss wrote: I will be putting all my votes on ON unless he returns then Because of sandroba's comments? | ||
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My current stance is that the voting is being blown out of proportion, lol. Nobody standing up for ON in the earlier rounds. Even a wee bit. That gives me a gut feeling that he's town. I would have expected SOME attempt to try and keep him from passing on. So I'm a wee bit townie on him. Sandroba ... blech. I hate the idea of lynching more veteran players D1. Some of his comments this morning looked townie though, although some looked misguided. Like his stuff on how anyone who cares about town should be using all their votes...that says NOTHING. Anyone who cares about scum is probably using all THEIR votes too. I haven't played with him enough though to know whether he's super careful about choosing his words and what thoughts he puts into thread. He's making it sound like he doesn't allow the thread to see much of his thoughts/thought process, and if that's true, then throwaway statements like that are a little odd. Between then two, I'm not STRONGLY scummy on either. I'm probably voting ON? IF he hangs on doing nearly nothing, it's difficult to get a read on him. Getting a read on a replacement player can sometimes be iffy, and in this case, we've had such a long first day that it's ... probably tougher? Instead of replacing in after 48 or 72 hours or whatever, replacement would come in 96 hours after this game started. I don't want to add a new player into the mix at that point, so unless I'm very convinced of Sandroba's scumminess, I'm dropping like...3 votes on ON or something. You, thrawn, are welcome to three of my votes. As is kush, who is either town or is doing a great job of adopting a completely different style of play for this game. Plus, GZA > RZA. 3 of my votes are for each of you two to use, so long as, in the post in which you tell me how to use them, you give thread a scumread and a townread (and a tiny bit of reasoning) on someone who was safe after the first or second round. | ||
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On October 14 2012 00:10 sandroba wrote: I'm not sure how one trusts one's judgment when voting, but NOT when deciding who to gives votes to. I can understand the statement in terms of something like "urrbody who has 0 votes can get one of mine," but as long as there's reasoning and judgment behind who you give the votes to...then you're still trusting your judgment. I dunno, maybe this IS a dumb idea, but I kind of like it.Giving your votes to other people is horrible. You either don't trust your judgement, in which case you have no business giving your votes away cuz you might be giving them up to mafia, or you do trust your judgement in which case you better use your votes yourself. Please stop with the nonsense. On October 14 2012 00:11 sandroba wrote: Also you should definitely use all the votes available to you in this last round if you care about town at all. This post is air. I'd think that those who DON'T care about town this game should also use all the votes available to them. If town and anti-town should be using all their votes, then ... there's nothing that means anything about whether or not someone uses all their votes. I may be taking too much issue with these posts because I like the idea of giving away votes, but they strike me as either "I want to save my own skin, and I'm worried that you support me but will give away votes to those who don't" (null, either townsand or scumsand would want to not get lynched) or something else. Blerg. I don't fully know what to make of them, but for some reason they struck me as less reasoned than some of his other posts. | ||
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On October 14 2012 03:09 Mementoss wrote: Yes, I should have used my votes in a different way early on. Some of this is due to changing my mind on Djodref. Some is due to focusing on Aperture. Some is due to early laziness.THIS is what bugs me, your not strongly scummy on either YET you have 9 votes left? HMMM, I guess you shoulda used your votes to get who you thought was scum to the finals. You don't even give a shit. Do you actually believe I don't give a shit? Or do you only think that THIS particular thing points towards me giving a shit? | ||
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On October 14 2012 03:41 thrawn2112 wrote: austin are your votes for ON more because you think he's the scummier candidate, or because you are more afraid of sandroba being town and you wouldnt want to lose a town sandroba? IMO sandroba is scummier than ON, but I am also a coward and I have no problems with a policy lynch... and when you think about it, ON is the perfect policy lynch candidate if there ever was one. I don't want to lose a town sandroba. I'm not convinced either way on his alignment, and he's a big asset if he's town. But I don't want to deal with either having him around late game after this D1, OR having to deal with a replacement catching up on 96 hours and then us having to read the replacement while not having much to go off of from ON's time in thread. To the extent that voting ON for concerns other than "ON scummiest" is a policy lynch, then yeah, I'm in favor of policy lynching him. Right now it's more just weighing what I think of each vs what they each bring. If I'm not convinced on either's alignment, then I'd rather take the chance that we have townsandroba who's useful than townON who isn't right now. If all this meta talk is true, scumsandroba is not particular active and nasty, whereas VE is the first replacement, and I feel like scumVE replacing in for ON might be nastier. So...I'd rather have townsand over townON. I'd rather have scumON dead than scumsand D1. Based on that, I'd rather flip ON if I'm not sure about the two of them. | ||
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On October 14 2012 03:57 kushm4sta wrote: @austin you are wrong no one fought for ON. I fought for him last round purely because he is a null read. ET pushed him through with 6 last minute votes. I just wish ET hadn't done that so would could lynch 1der today. Also you make a pretty good point about the replacement. If I had to guess based on the OP, I would guess that ON is going to get modkilled. So what is better? Lynching ON so he doesn't get modkilled or lynching sandroba and letting ON get modkilled? Right now I'm leaning towards the option that gets them both killed. I dont want to have to lynch Sandroba d2 if he continues on his path of lurking/not giving a shit. Last round was late enough that people were finally going to fight for him anyway. It was the first two rounds that I'm really looking at for ON, where Hiro and I got free passes and nobody blinked. A scumbuddy could have just said, "ON feels like an easy mislynch" and dropped a couple votes in R1 or R2, but once we were in R3 both sides were getting more votes and more discussion, so there was less of an opportunity for someone to save him without doing much at all. Plus, at some point, he was going to get more discussion and more arguments in support at him, so I'd rather focus on the early days as far as the whole nobody fighting for him bit. I'm not leaning scummy on them, so I don't lean towards the lynch Sandroba + replacement/modkill option. If we're going to lose one, I'd rather lose ON, because he's going to be more difficult to read and feels like he's going to be less useful. I haven't played with ON though so I dunno him much, but I've seen some good games from sandroba. | ||
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On October 14 2012 09:21 Djodref wrote: Oh i'm not saying they're both town or both scum.I've found some holes in your reasoning. Did you consider the case where ON is scum and Sandro town and the case where ON is town and Sandro is scum ? It's more just ... if we're going to kill one, and I don't really think either is super scummy, I'd rather take the safer lynch. I want a townsand around more, and I want a scumON around less, so ... I'm more willing to lynch ON. | ||
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On October 14 2012 09:31 thrawn2112 wrote: austin what do you make of sand's "omg you guys suck so bad i'm not going to try" defense? On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote: I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate. My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum. This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. It's odd. So angry over not being lynched, just moving on one round. Hangover anger? He's correct that there wasn't much case on him. kush is either townie or just doing a nice job avoiding his usual style in order to seem that way, so, at least from my point of view, I didn't want kush to advance and I wanted to pressure sandroba with moving through another round. To some extent, sandroba responded to that pressure by giving out some reads. He drops a bunch of names, but provided a little reasoning later on Hiro and I. I THINK I like that part of his angry defense? I think that makes me lean town on him. The wishy washy part of my feeling is that he drops a list of 4 names, then explains 2 later. Maybe that's enough for us to town he actually has reasons, maybe it's covering up that he just vomited a list of names there and decided to explain one or two that he could easily explain. Leaning towards the former right now based on absolutely nothing. It's...concerning that mementoss and prplhz keep popping up as these minor scumreads. I think you mentioned them earlier. They're on my radar as well. But we're all just dropping their names and nothing more, because we're overly focused on today's lynch. I guess i find dropping those names townie from sand, because even though they're unsubstantiated he did choose two people that I'm not townie on. That's my too-long, entirely wishy-washy, could be x or y thoughts on his post. | ||
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On October 14 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote: Austin why haven't you used all your votes yet? I was actually in agreement with sandroba on that part. I don't see how anyone would either A not want to use all their votes or B trust anyone else in the game D1 enough to 'give' them votes I'm serious about you having 3 and kush having 3. They're not...fully given away. They come at the cost of a scum and town read on players who fell out of R1 and R2. At the very least, instead of using them to control the lynch I'm trying to use them to get information and a better read on the two of you. I like that idea, seems like a fun and useful way to use them. I'm not letting either of you have ALL my votes. And worst case, I give scum a net total of 3 votes (I'm using 3). Even if one of you is scum, that's still 6 town votes and 3 scum votes from my pool. That math sounds stupid, but it doesn't feel like even if you guys are scum that I'm handing control of the lynch over. They're really just supposed to be bait/bribery and get you guys to look at some of the folks who dropped out R1 and R2. | ||
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On October 14 2012 10:18 kushm4sta wrote: Sandroba has a better chance of flipping scum...lynch sandroba. This day has been SUPER long and he has had ample time to show us he is town. He hasn't though. His defense, non-defense, whatever you want to call it, did not convince me. I'll go through his recent posts soon and quote some stuff. But for now I'm leaving my one measly vote on Sandroba. @Austin if you want to give me your votes, whatever it's kind of weird but I'll take them. Put those bitches on Sandroba. I'm not purely GIVING them to you. On October 14 2012 02:16 austinmcc wrote: You, thrawn, are welcome to three of my votes. As is kush, who is either town or is doing a great job of adopting a completely different style of play for this game. Plus, GZA > RZA. 3 of my votes are for each of you two to use, so long as, in the post in which you tell me how to use them, you give thread a scumread and a townread (and a tiny bit of reasoning) on someone who was safe after the first or second round. | ||
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On October 14 2012 10:23 thrawn2112 wrote: So I have to give a scum and a town read out of the people who got 0 votes? That might not even be possible but i'd say out of the people who got 0 votes, i'd be least surprised if hiro flipped red. hiro is one of the players who I don't have a clear mental picture of (in other words he has basically been blending in somewhat) and those are the kinds of players you need to be most wary of. however the chances of him flipping red I wouldn't put much higher than memtoss' chances, who has been popping up on several people's radar. Out of the people with 0 votes.. I'd say you are most likely to be town. Your meta does seem to be a little different than normal... for instance you are posing the crazy hypothetical "if you are scum what would you do" questions, and there is this weird thing with vote sharing. But I haven't found any of it scummy and you've always been willing to answer any of my questions with a lengthy response. You've got 3 votes if you want them. | ||
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On October 14 2012 10:36 prplhz wrote: why don't you say stuff like this earlier and not 25 mins before deadline ... This statement looks more to me like not caring about the lynch than my not using votes. All Sandroba said was that, if he were scum, he and his scumbuddies wouldn't have let him move to the final round. That's true of pretty much everyone. That's how being scum in this D1 setup would work for ALL of us. Sandroba didn't descend from the heavens and drop mystical knowledge here, yet prplhz makes it sound like this is new stuff and is partially changing his mind. | ||
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On October 14 2012 10:40 JingleHell wrote: Sand is currently set to be lynched. 24-21, last vote counted, Austin 6x on Sand. 20 Minutes to deadline. I put 6 votes on ON... | ||
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On October 14 2012 10:46 kushm4sta wrote: yeah as scum he would just let this lynch happen.. that is what he has done in the past There are 3 votes with your name on them... | ||
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On October 14 2012 10:50 kushm4sta wrote: austin vote ON for me please. im changing my mind about sandroba lynch Scum and townread from people safe in first 2 rounds? | ||
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On October 14 2012 10:52 thrawn2112 wrote: austin why did you offer your votes to specifically kush and I out of everyone else? I think at the time you were two of my townreads who were also putting a decent amount of reasoning in thread. | ||
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On October 14 2012 10:54 kushm4sta wrote: fuck austin I really don't want to play your stupid games... town read=daoud-too dumb to be scum. no fear in posting, total newbie and therefore should be transparent scum read=austin for throwing away his votes and feigning towniess with stupid games he makes people play We'll allow it. Still want them on ON? | ||
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On October 14 2012 11:02 prplhz wrote: well at least i don't have to bother with defending myself now The super paranoid players might point out that, at the time you voted, kush had changed his vote and had yet to use my 3 votes. ON would have been the leading vote-getter had you swapped or not. | ||
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On October 14 2012 11:22 EchelonTee wrote: I had no need to vote dump ON last round. It attracted a lot of attention and was simply not necessary from a scum perspective. I suggest you get off my case. You dropped 6 votes right at deadline. 4 would have put him through. The extra 2 votes, if you've got a 3 man scumteam, represent you and your other scumbuddy's anger at ON for not being around. gg, ET scum. | ||
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Yes. | ||
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Read on mementoss is wonky, because his early play felt very towny. He was the first person to do a big "Here's what I think about each matchup" post. I liked that, that someone would do that and kind of force more people to do so. Town justification: More info into thread, explain self, be transparent Scum justification: Hide votes in 1-2 matchups by speaking about ALL matchups? Overcompensating and trying to look townie by being open? Overall I was leaning townie on him for that stuff. His play in the later rounds feels different from that openness. Whereas in those matchup posts he's giving his thoughts on everyone, he then stopped doing so. To the extent we have his thoughts recently, it's basically just that holding votes is scummy, having lots of votes is scummy. On October 13 2012 22:52 Mementoss wrote: Actually, everyone should only be using 1 vote, and we can get some sort of real full out majority going where everyone is involved. Knowing that ON was scum, this means he's probably got...1-3 scumbuddies, likely only 2. If everyone only uses 1 vote, 2 players provide a decent swing. If one player was low on votes (had 1 or 0 left), this helps them take control over the lynch. On October 13 2012 22:52 Mementoss wrote: Also willing to give away votes. But the reason he's giving them away is one I don't like. If people saving their votes is scummy because they want to control the lynch, then people who blew votes early to control lynches should also be scummy under mementoss's reasoning. Yet he wants to give those people votes. Also, if he were town, wouldn't he be worried about giving away votes to just anyone? I was.For the people with 0 votes left. ##Mementoss vote "Player Name" and I will use one of my votes towards giving you a voice in this lynch. I have a feeling scum has WAY too much control right now. But there is a possibility its too late anyways, this method should give more information to where people are at in their thought process. CHECK DIS OUT RIGHT HERE On October 13 2012 22:53 Mementoss wrote: Also ET I know you explained it but its still fucking weird that you LAST MINUTE dropped all your votes on ON, after expecting him for a modkill, not having a read on him. And having a scum read on hopeless all of the first 2 cycles, you save him last minute. Not sure which way I will be voting today yet. ET DOES look good for pushing ON through. You know who was displeased that ET votebombed last minute and pushed ON through? Mementoss. Read that again. What alignment is most likely to be very perturbed that someone came in and dropped votes on ON, when ON was safe from lynch and hopeless1der was moving on? One of those things that's always nice to look at is where something sudden happens that can throw scum off their game/plans. ET voting ON RIGHT at deadline was one such moment, and mementoss reacted hard. However, today Mementoss voted ON. Do you guys know why!? On October 14 2012 00:31 Mementoss wrote: I will be putting all my votes on ON unless he returns then On October 14 2012 00:46 Mementoss wrote: He's voting ON because...he's a bit scummy on Sandroba, but wants to lynch ON who is lurking. His prior thoughts on ON - no because no one would co-operate anyways, and although I think sandroba's play has been scummy im not super sure. But if he flips town then we have ON who refuses to post or do anything, and its gunna be a bad time. Overall, I guess im happy with either lynch, lynching someone I have a bit of a scum read on, or lynching a complete lurker. On October 12 2012 04:37 Mementoss wrote: OriginalName Lurking pretty hard as well. Only has one post with content so far. But it brings up some pretty decent points. Still he needs more activity into the game, looking forward to what his thoughts are on the other players/matchups. Null. Not voting either. ON lurking but null. ON's only post had decent points. Weird phrasing. "Needs more activity" "looking forward to what his thoughts are on the other players/matchups." That "looking forward" to language sticks out as just funky. He's never been scummy on ON. He's scummy on Sandroba. But he's voting ON. (Yes, it's not scummy to vote scum, but i'm having trouble seeing why he did so) Then there are just a variety of questions that I was asking him which he didn't answer. Doesn't answer second question at all - + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2012 22:43 Mementoss wrote: Okay let me pretend to be mementoss. 1. Don't care. 2. Vote the people acting scummiest in the thread. 3. ON is a likely mislynch for lurking, and kush is a likely mislynch for his meta. (if they are town that is) aka its not hard for scum to put them through without real reasoning I don't understand the purpose of this question though. lol. Doesn't explain a variety of things - + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2012 23:57 Mementoss wrote: what how much info are we gunna get when half the people cant vote on the lynch, and the other half have no say in the final decision. The lynch is left up to those 4 players, and since one of them is in the hot seat. He can use 9 votes to save himself. I guess playing as passive as you and not putting any reads on anyone to too late so you don't have to vote and can sheep and holding all your votes is your strategy. I guess thats cool >_>. Doesn't answer why apathetic voting is horseshit, doesn't explain why scummy. (If he's going to pay so much attention to people with lots of votes, be so concerned about them, then what is his reasoning? Is there a townie reason to worry, or is he just being active in thread and THINKS this might be a good point to push?). Doesn't explain why we should be using 1 vote. (What's his reasoning? Is it a townie one or does he want more control of lynch and is worried about townies who have votes)? Doesn't explain why he's giving away votes to anyone with 0. Some minor thoughts, typed quickly because we don't know when night ends. Really vague association! On October 11 2012 11:30 OriginalName wrote: ON had like...one post of substance. In writing about Djo, ON got a little worked up over a vote on mementoss. Possibly looking out for a scumbuddy? It's not much, but there's really not much in ON's filter. But he's directly addressing the ET/Djo matchup on D2, and he ONLY talks about ET/Djo except where he brings in mementoss. Weak at best. Djo: I'm going to wait abit to call out lurking due to timezones. However he did vote me for megalurk then disappear. One thing that bothers me this time around is believe it or not, that vote on Mementoss. He uses the excuse that he was drunk to cover it up rather than assert his position harder and back it up. It was by his words an accident, at the very least he could push it and get more reactions, there is nothing wrong in an incorrect push as it always reveals something. Anyway, if I'm looking PURELY at associations to be drawn from ON's flip, Mementoss comes off looking the worst. ON mildly references him, is concerned with a vote on him. Mementoss is relatively concerned with ET dropping votes on ON RIGHT at deadline to push him through (Hey, which faction wants to plan and didn't want ON to move into further rounds?). Also, I ALWAYS find mementoss scummy. Every game I really look at him, I end up finding him scummy. But it's not usually for stuff like this - the minor associative bits are especially different from past accusations I've made. | ||
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On October 14 2012 11:53 prplhz wrote: for you not noticing could be austin or mementoss instead of da0ud since i don't really noticed them this game Confused face for me being scum. If you were scum, and one of your scumbuddies was up for lynch, would you give away 6 of your votes? | ||
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On October 14 2012 12:04 thrawn2112 wrote: I agree with most of that post but still I'm hesitant to believe that memtoss would have bussed ON so early on in the last round. However that's assuming that sand is town which isn't confirmed. Yeah, that throws everything off. I get really zoned in on the associative bits though (see how I'm referencing them again?). Need to see exactly where votes were on each candidate when he dropped his votes. I'm also, for some reason, less willing to give him townie points for voting ON when he has a scumread on Sandroba and voted ON anyway for lurking. | ||
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On October 14 2012 11:05 austinmcc wrote: The super paranoid players might point out that, at the time you voted, kush had changed his vote and had yet to use my 3 votes. ON would have been the leading vote-getter had you swapped or not. You guys are an hour late! | ||
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On October 14 2012 12:15 sandroba wrote: Djoref is unlikely scum because he didn't unvote hopeless last round to keep his votes and have me lynched instead of ON this round. Well, he could technically still be scum, but that would be pretty terrible play. Don't bother with him till way later. Hopeless was set to be lynched last round until RIGHT at the deadline. There would have been no reason for scum to unvote Hopeless, as he was set to go through and ON would have been safe. | ||
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Then BOOM. Deadline votes, ON moves on, and scum have already burnt a lot of their influence in R3. | ||
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18:07 - Djodref puts 6 on hopeless (H6, ON0) 4:27 - Hiro puts 2 on ON (H6, ON2) 4:36 - ET puts 2 on ON (H6, ON4) 4:49 - thrawn puts 1 on ON (H6, ON5) 7:09 - sandroba puts 2 on ON (H6, ON7) 7:10 - sandroba changes vote to 7 on ON (H6, ON12) 9:45 - kush puts 1 on hopeless (H7, ON12) 10:24 - OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT POSTED - SAYS (H7, ON 11) 10:33 - kush changes vote to 6 on hopeless (H12, ON12) 11:00 - ET changes vote to 6 on ON (H12, ON16) 11:00 - DEADLINE (H12, ON 15) Actually the numbers are really weird...kush puts 6 votes on Hopeless when it doesn't change anything? ET puts 6 votes on ON when it doesn't change anything... you guys vote weird. The official vote count is different, which means that under the official votecount, kush first voted hopeless once. He then voted enough to put hopeless through and save ON (ONLY UNDER THE OFFICIAL VOTECOUNT, WHICH SEEMS TO BE WRONG?). iirc he was also asking me in thread if I was gonna outvote him? I need to go find that. If so, shows that he was worried about expending votes and still having ON go through to the finals...(BUT THEN HE VOTED ON LATE TODAY) | ||
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On October 14 2012 12:38 kushm4sta wrote: @austin my 6 votes gave 1der the majority According to the official vote count, yeah. But if you actually count the votes, unless I'm missing something, your votes actually just got him to tied, and ON would have continued because he hit that # first. You and ET's votes both mattered based on the vote count that was given in blue. | ||
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Yet when given votes at the end of today, Kush used them on ON. And was set to do so before prplhz came in. Eeeeeenteresting. | ||
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On October 14 2012 12:46 JingleHell wrote: Austin gets a large barrel of Acme Angry Host Glare delivered to his door for interrupting my viewing of the LoL finals to frantically make sure he was wrong. Unfortunately, it works about as well as Acme products ever do, which is to say, not at all. Payback for Aperture 2 | ||
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On October 15 2012 02:14 JingleHell wrote: After an unspecified (to you) duration, the hot potato will blow up, insta-killing whoever has it at the time (via normal lynch mechanics). I very much enjoy this sentence. | ||
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On October 15 2012 02:52 Hopeless1der wrote: gg sandroba. So...we wait until Hiro comes in guns blazing? Austin, am I missing something or does the potato just...blow up and we have no control/knowledge of when? You're not missing anything. I just like that the exploding hot potato kills someone "via normal lynch mechanics." Not usually what I have in mind when picturing a lynch. I don't know if the explosion transforms the potato into a rope, or if normal lynches are actually effected via secret potato explosion. | ||
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On October 15 2012 05:27 kushm4sta wrote: pass to prpl he said he will hold it. and it could definitely explode before 24 hours. I think they will do it tonight to fix the voting time. ^ 96 hour D1, trying to cut N1 short. I wouldn't be so confidant in >24 hour D2. | ||
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On October 15 2012 06:02 HiroPro wrote: Do you think that the potato will blow up before 24 hours? No, the chance is almost none. After that though, it's a toss up. And I intend to make sure that you are the one with the potato at 24 hours. So yes I do control the lynch. This makes no sense. I actually DO think that the potato will blow up before 24 hours. Moreover, the fact that you're talking about the "chance" that it blows up before 24, which implies there's a distribution of likelihoods when the potato will blow up, means that you don't have control. You have the potato. The potato is control over a PORTION of the lynch, the target, but not control over the lynch itself, target + timing. | ||
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On October 15 2012 07:17 HiroPro wrote: Do you guys really think that there's a chance the potato will blow up soon? I'm going to feel awfully stupid if I lynch myself T_T Sort of. Trying to find voting connections between ON/djodref/da0ud/prplhz + Show Spoiler + R1 prplhz votes 1x da0ud early. djodref beats da0ud by 1 vote. djodref votes 1x prplhz, 1x hopeless1der, 1x ON. kush beats prplhz by 1 vote. In each of those cases, they wasted votes on each other's opponents, not using enough to get their target to move on for 2 more votes. However, 1 minute before deadline: HiroPro voted 2x Kush, so prplhz was set to advance over kush until that point. Hopeless1der unvoted 1x prplhz, 1x ON, 1x Djodref. prplhz was therefore leading by 2 votes until the last moment. The double D lynch ended up the same as it would have been. R2 da0ud votes 1x djodref prplhz votes 1x Hopeless1der djodref votes 1x Hopeless1der ET vs. Djoref ends 4-5 with djoref passing on. Only da0ud spent votes to influence that matchup out of the group I'm watching. R3 djodref votes x6 Hopeless1der prplhz saves votes da0ud saves votes djodref is one of two hopeless1der voters. If we think scum tried to push hopeless1der over ON in R3, djodref and kush are the only people who voted him. kush pushed ON (to an extent, towards the end of the day) in R4. So djodref looks more scummy out of the R3 hopeless1der voters imo. djodref on D1 was set to push prplhz into R2 on R1. Last minute voting changed that. prplhz voted da0ud, djodref's opponent, but not hard enough to push da0ud through. There's nothing in here that really looks like x and y were trying to save eachother/help eachother out. | ||
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Would rather we burn hides on like...da0ud, djodref, prplhz, mementoss, 3 of em while hiro holds, then he passed, the other burns his hide. We can still pass to em later, but now we know there won't be any later hiding shenanigans. I'd rather not even have the OPTION for scum to hide later and then have to use D3 lynch on that person. | ||
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In hindsight, the final lynch was 1 town 1 scum. Scum most likely wouldn't want to give up control of their votes in a 1 vs 1 lynch. I held my votes on earlier days and was somewhat disinterested, only to ... not be interested in my buddy's possible lynch and instead gave away my control. There are other reasons, and I know that's slightly WIFOM-y because scum could do that then make this argument, but...I'm pretty town. | ||
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On October 15 2012 10:11 HiroPro wrote: I don't see any point in hiding. If we're doing it just for the hell of it, I'd rather not. Everyone only gets 1 hide. Hiding now means no lucking into a hide at the right time later. | ||
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On October 15 2012 10:26 HiroPro wrote: I don't think whether we use the hide now really makes a difference one way or another. Past a certain point, no one really knows when the potato will blow up. you can't really guess like that using the hides. i'm going out tonight and idk when i'll wake up tomorrow so i'll pass it to prplhz before i leave. Everyone who hides now has ZERO chance to hide later and luck out. Everyone who does not hide now has MORE THAN ZERO chance to hide later and luck out. I would rather people have a zero chance to luck into avoiding lynch than a more-than-zero chance. | ||
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On October 15 2012 10:30 Hopeless1der wrote: Okay. Would you like me to hide? I'm not overly concerned with you, would prefer that prplh, the double Ds, and mementoss burn their hides. We probably all should, and just try to get scummier people to hide earlier on? It actually just feels like this is another distraction and we're sitting around not developing any reads or talking, while just chatting about hiding. I'm in favor of some potato-passing whether people hide or no. | ||
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On October 15 2012 10:41 thrawn2112 wrote: so i'm guessing hiding is some sort of "raise your hand if you're town" gesture? if you're hiding you're not going to raise your hand. That's the #1 hide and seek rookie mistake. Seeker says to cough and wave your arms around if you're hiding, and then just walks over to where he hears/sees you. | ||
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On October 16 2012 03:27 EchelonTee wrote: Because if I hide, he'll pass it to some other random townie, and it might explode on them (same chance of it exploding on me), and I don't know what that townie will do with the bomb, while I know exactly what I will do. This might be OMGUS, but prplhz has absolutely no reason to think that I am scum except for process of eliminiation, which is ludicrous to say the least. The fact that people are implying that they are unsure about prplhz or that they will explode other people boggles my mind a bit because of all of the absurd things prplhz has been saying. I've played with prplhz in a lot of games, and here a few things I've found: 1. he's a smart player: I remember when he N1 vigi shot scum. 2. he likes sheeping. I remember when he sheeped me even when I was a noobie, and when he sheeped everyone in Liar Game because he didn't know what was going on (busy with life I think?) 3. he usually responds to what people says In this game he's said some really outrageously dumb things that just sound so disingenuous. I don't care if people said that ON was null, or that he was just a lurker lynch. But to say that ON looks townie? Insanity. And to call me scum... for no reason? More insanity. And in this game when he had a chance to sheep sandroba and lay off him for just one cycle, he didn't take the opportunity. I don't see prplhz every doing this crap. Finally, when I and others call him out on his shit his response is to "fuck off lol". Are you goddamn serious. Is it risky for me to accept the potato? Obviously. But I'm fine with that to make prplhz completely and without question exposed as scum. If he sends it to me and I explode town, then prplhz should be revoked of his right to talk in thread until he finally gets the noose. Even assuming prplhz is scum, we probably have more than 2 scum players this game. I'm not sure how it can boggle your mind that people are considering other ... targets? Kind of hard to say lynch options given today's lynch. I think that if you want to make the argument that prplhz is scum this game, based heavily in arguments that he's normally better than this, or normally smarter than this, or whatever, you should rely less on "prplhz was town in game A, did X, and has not done X this game/is playing differently than X" and should rely MORE on "prplhz was SCUM in game B, did Y, and has done Y here." Analogizing his play this game to town games and saying it's different is not nearly as strong as analogizing his play this game to scum games and showing it's the same. He doesn't look super-duper townie, but you're overly tunneling him right now and not for the most convincing of reasons. | ||
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On October 16 2012 04:10 kushm4sta wrote: @austin don't be ridiculous. I can see someone thinking memetoss is scum, sure, but ET...at this point?? He is the one that pushed ON through at the last second. I mean you can have your suspicions on him, sure, but to try to kill him like this over way better suspects, against majority opinion...there is no way town would do that. I do not think that ET is scum at this point. I don't think I've read any scum ET games though. I'm still looking more at mementoss and one of the double Ds though. I'm also paranoid about HiroPro, mainly because we just played scum together though and so I'm hyper aware of how he posted that game. There are little connections I'm drawing between his posts this game/that game but I don't think they're too reliable. This whole thing about passing the potato is silly though. As far as I know, we have 0 idea when it's going to blow. Therefore, everyone should be passing it to scumreads, and doing it OFTEN. This "hold onto it forever and pass later" is crap, because it nets us so much less in terms of scumreads and information. We're all just sitting here, waiting for it to be passed. I'd rather sandroba be resurrected and prplhz pass the stupid potato to him, a confirmed townie, than hold onto it. Because then something is at least HAPPENING. Normally, town has more votes than mafia (or the game ends), therefore, town controls the lynch. Today, TOWN DOES NOT CONTROL THE LYNCH. We need to quit playing today like we know where the potato is going to end up, like this is a normal lynch we're in control of, and just pass it. Pass it to townreads to see what they do. Pass it mainly to scumreads, to see what THEY do. The worst possible thing to do, imo, is to hold the potato. It's causing the thread to dry up, it's creating no information, and it's utter crap to pretend that you know when the thing is going to go off so you'll hold it until then. | ||
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For reference, here are mementoss's scum games and scum QTs. Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VIII Scum QT that game Aperture 1 Scum QT that game He replaced into Aperture late. When I read SNNM8 QT, I get the sense that scum Mementoss is plot-y. He's always concerned with when people are posting, where reads are going. He times his posts/votes, and there's constant talk about when/how much the mafiosos should mention each other and create connections. Knowing that scum Mementoss is concerned about those things means that I believe scum Mementoss could easily vote ON in R4 when Sandroba was leading by so many votes. Scum mementoss likes not having connections that can be drawn between him and his buddies, and so I would expect a scum mementoss to really think through D1 and where his votes were going each round. In the instant game, Mementoss pointed out that he wouldn't be around at deadline: On October 11 2012 23:59 Mementoss wrote: I will not make any deadlines. That further reduces the town cred from Mementoss's ON votes, because, if true, he would have been away during the final hours. Even with a few hours until lynch, Sandroba was winning. That only changed towards the very end, when Mementoss is supposedly away from thread. | ||
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On October 16 2012 04:21 EchelonTee wrote: I don't care if people discuss other targets; I've done so myself. It's mainly the one or two people who think prplhz is town that bothers me. There's really nothing left to say on the matter, just when will the RNG decide the lynch. You did say that The fact that people are implying that they are unsure about prplhz or that they will explode other people boggles my mind a bit which implies that it's not pure concern over people having townreads on prplhz, but rather that you don't know why ANYONE would want to lynch not-prplhz | ||
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On October 16 2012 04:54 EchelonTee wrote: I don't care if people discuss other targets; I've done so myself. It's mainly the one or two people who think prplhz is town that bothers me. It also boggles my mind that people would want to lynch someone other than prplhz first. It boggles my mind that that boggles your mind, but alright. | ||
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On October 16 2012 05:03 kushm4sta wrote: End of ro4. I vote bombed 1der 1 hour before deadline. He counter votebombed ON seconds before deadline when he returned from afk. R3. ET dropped votes right at deadline to send ON to R4 instead of hopeless1der. | ||
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On October 16 2012 05:28 prplhz wrote: kinda sucks that i could lose the game by going for EchelonTee i just don't want to get lynched in the first two days for my third town game in a row prplhz gets lynched in the first two days if town therefore, if no lynch...prplhz scum? See whatever that mini was where you claimed cop in response to D1 pressure. On a more serious note, a lot of your reasons for wanting to get ET killed feel like his reasons to get you killed. His "tone is different," he doesn't seem to be hard-working and you remember him as hard-working, his cases "have been based on stuff [you] don't think that [he] would consider scummy," and apparently more but it's irrelevant somehow. You don't seem to know who he voted for at what time, nor do you appear to be taking that into consideration now. Not entirely sure WHY you're going for ET, because a lot of the reasons you gave are specific to your own thoughts, and you didn't give anyone much to work with. If you get mislynched as town for going after ET, it's because you don't seem to really be going after ET...just giving some mushy thoughts with no specifics and holding onto the potato that you should be passing around. | ||
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prplhz, if ET is town, who are your top 2 scumreads and why, given their play this game? mementoss, I'd ask you the same question but you don't seem to REALLY have scumreads. We'll just go with, if prplhz is town, who are your top 2 scumreads and why, given their play this game? More mementoss stuff? Why, certainly! Please take a look at his D2 posting, and then some questions about his play to generate discussion can be conveniently found below! Here's him talking about his scumreads, or my scumreads, or your scumreads, during D2: On October 15 2012 20:41 Mementoss wrote: It bothers me that everyone is just dropping in the thread and is like sup d0ad and prplhz scum. Without giving much reason. Its killing the discussion. Also holding the potato until you think its about to explode than passing it is a bad idea, cause really you have NO idea when its going to explode. I think you should just pass the potato to your scum read ASAP. The more time you have the potato, the greater chance you have of lynching yourself. You know your alignment and if you are town this is bad. That stuff being said I need to re-read the filters cause I don't want to just say LOL d0ad prplhz pass da potato gg guyz. Then if one of them flips town, everyone just says "fuck" and town loses its good start, It bothers me that everyone is just dropping in to talk about these two and call them scum. Instead, I will drop in, NOT call them scum, and not give any kind of read on them. Instead, I will re-read filters. Keep that in mind, that passage highlighted in red, as we take a look at what Mementoss got out of rereading filters. On October 15 2012 21:27 Mementoss wrote: Work Time now, so I don't have time to explain. Hopefully will before the potato blows I would MUCH rather lynch d0ad over prplhz. If you actually read prplhz filter he looks pretty town ignoring the fact he really thought sandroba was scum. But guess what? Townies are wrong most of the time. They don't have the information like scum. They can't manufacturer reads based on this information. That looks like what da0d has been doing all game, picking people to make cases on and manufacturing them after the fact. Also, to everyone saying lolz da0d/ prplhz pass between eachother. (kush) I want a detailed post on why you think they are both scum. Including stuff that doesn't have to do with ON flipping scum. Also think if you had the potato and you knew you were town. Why the fuck would you listen to anyone else or hold the potato because someone told you to? Holding the potato as town makes no sense. Holding the potato as scum, makes more sense to get town cred. Telling people what they have do with the potato without a good reason, or they will be lynched is complete scum motivation. If I had the potato, I would not hold that thing a second longer than I had to, and would be putting it on my top scum read, not someone elses. Why? You know your own alignment and no one elses. You can only trust yourself at that point. "If you actually read prplhz filter he looks pretty town ignoring the fact he really thought sandroba was scum" Specifics? Negatory. Just that his filter looks towny. "what da0d has been doing all game, picking people to make cases on and manufacturing them after the fact." Specifics? Negatory. Just that da0ud has been doing this thing that mementoss thinks is scummy. On October 15 2012 21:28 Mementoss wrote: : I could be wrong about prplhz, but I think he is town and d0ad is a better potato explosive target. Specifics? Negatory. On October 15 2012 23:32 Mementoss wrote: Does this change your view of me from the last page? And it was funny how right after I defend prplhz he ninja defends me, and then subsequently makes a plan to throw the potatoe at ET without explanation. If you could pick one person to be scum that doesn't include me prplhz or da0d. Who would it be? (only asking your because your my top town read atm) @prplhz Do you think ET is town? If so, don't pass to ET the greater the time in towns hands the potato is the greater chance of dead town. If you think ET is scum, how do you explain ETs last minute ninja semi final vote to put ON into the finals over hopeless. If you could pick a person to be scum that's not a top candidate, oh thrawnykins, my bestest most toppity-toppest townread, who would it be? **Note: Mementoss just getting information from everyone, taking the pulse of the thread, despite basically having no reads on the table himself except a generic comment that da0ud's filter looks scummy** On October 15 2012 23:39 Mementoss wrote: One more quick note, if your looking for scum with associations to the ON flip, look for people who were confident ON would flip scum. No townie could be confident ON would flip scum because ON had 2 posts, and was inactive. It was a complete guess/safe lynch. Also look for people who didn't vote ON in the early rounds, but bussed him in the finals. More "Hey guys, let's all do this" without doing it himself? Did Mementoss do this? What did he conclude? When he re-read filters, which, remember, he was going to do, what did he find? On October 15 2012 23:51 Mementoss wrote: Nice we have the same hunch. I will try to put something cohesive together after work. Read this if your interested in scum austin: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174 Ah. "We have the same hunch." I will put something together later. Again, no specifics. Maybe I'm scummy? Maybe I'm not? Maybe he just thinks I might be scummy? For...reasons!? On October 16 2012 05:11 Mementoss wrote: I take back thinking prplhz being town. Him trying to kill ET has no town motivation and the fact he can't even explain why is even worse. Only thing I can think of is prplhz trying to kill ET before he is inevitely lynched? Things that still make me think hes town. He's not trying to push the case on me so that the lynch targets extend from him and da0d to him da0d and me. prplhz now scummy because he's trying to kill ET. Despite his whole D1 filter looking townie to mementoss earlier. Also, mementoss takes back thinking prplhz is town, but...there are things that still make him think prplhz is town. LET'S PLAY BOOK CLUB. PLEASE READ THE ASSIGNED MATERIAL AND ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS: (1) What are mementoss's scum reads? There appears to be one on me, but I don't know why. There appears to be one on da0ud, that he doesn't talk about much and never explained with any length or particularity. There appears to be one on prplhz, as well as a town read on prplhz. (2) What is mementoss doing today? He's chiming in a decent bit. He's asking some questions. He's asking everyone to go do x and y, but it doesn't appear that HE has done x and y. Boo. Boo on that. (3) Does that behavior correspond with Mementoss's scum play? (4) I have been on the receiving end of a case from mementoss, when mementoss thought I was scum - + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 05:32 Mementoss wrote: My thoughts on Austinmcc: When I think of everyone in the game the person that sticks out most to me as scum is austinmcc. I realize that most of these points were explained by austin, but any decent scum player can explain things after the fact of doing them. So I figured id sum up my thoughts in this post. 1. Goes from not thinking Keirthia is not scummy, to super scummy in less than 2 hours apart. He doesn't call Keirathi scummy however, he just finds it weird, even though the way austinmcc is posting it seems like he thinks he caught keirathi in a lie. Doesn't vote for him. + Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 01:09 austinmcc wrote: The good start bit is relative to other recent games. It may seem dead, but, comparatively, this game started much quicker. So you don't see Keirathi's early play as scummy, you find it poorly executed town play. I didn't find it scummy and asked Drazerk whether he actually does, which was not a rhetorical question (The other ones, sure, but the final question to Drazerk is for realsies). You even want "more explanation" from Drazerk in the future, which is what I wanted because I didn't see Keirathi's entrance as third party. I know that Drazerk gave some comments on why an uninvested survivor would give up so easily, but look at his actual vote:The vote lays out survivor/third party/idiot. What makes Drazerk sure it's the first two and not the third? I'm wondering why, if it can be any of the three, he's so focused on the third party options. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but Drazerk and third party have a history in themed games, and want to know why he's zoning in on third party options rather than what would appear to be bad townie. It's not that I can't see what Drazerk is saying, but I want to know where that option for Keirathi's play went. + Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 03:18 austinmcc wrote: Keirathi, I'm a little troubled by this when I look back through your explanation: When you unvote, you specifically note that you want real, meaningful opinions that people can be held accountable for. So you're interested in getting discussion going in general. This seems to not match up. If you wanted people to give opinions, how was your goal accomplished when only Mattchew responded? Now you seem to be responding to Drazerk that you were only concerned with Mattchew and not other people's opinions. The initial justification says you wanted opinions, now you don't even want them. Back to wanting discussion. Why the two inconsistent explanations? You may think this has been covered ad nauseum, but some of your explanations aren't really matching up. 2. Keeps implying finding keirathi but is too scared to actually place a vote on him, even after complaining about people not consolidating on the votes. Wouldn't austin want to place a vote on keirathi and start pushing him now?? Nope. No fucks were given by austin about keirathis lynch. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote: Alright, done some rereading. My number 1 concern at this point is the number of side squabbles and useless votes that we've got. Previous votecount had 6 people with votes, and I think we're still about as spread out as we were before. Stuff like: Drazerk/snb very interested in each other. Both voting each other, in part, based on what seems to be "He should understand my play better." I don't want to lynch either of them today, and telling me that some other player should understand you better doesn't make me want to lynch that other guy. The votes feel entirely wasted. ghost's vote is wasted. Votes keirathi for trying too hard, never engages anyone else who's talking about keirathi. nisani201 still has a vote on Drazerk for Drazerk's initial response to Keirathi. Followed by very little else and Can't single people out for not contributing, but those votes look like they've been made without any attempt to convince anyone else, and they don't feel like they're serving a purpose. JH, how is PTP3 pushing you to play this way? Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 00:58 austinmcc wrote: Those jumps are based on what you did in the meantime. Here's my initial post: I didn't see your unvote for weak reasons as scummy. Drazerk had just posted that it was third party or idiot, I didn't find it to be telling at all because the reasoning behind the vote in the first place didn't seem strong. Then after that post, you give your explanation and justification. THAT is what I feel is scummy, reminds me of scum. I'm not concerned about you unvoting based on some weak comments from matt (What drazerk mentioned and what I didn't find scummy), I'm concerned about you based on your later explanation where you claim to have wanted discussion and opinions yet unvote before any of that ever appears. Right now, I'm scummy on you. I'm not going to lead a crusade to lynch you because the way you explained a plan reminds of what a scum player in another game did, however. For now I'm looking elsewhere for today's lynch, and I'm watching you. I'm alright with the way you discussed Ghost when talking to Gonzaw, I don't think someone can get a free pass for a terrible vote and then not pushing it at all. If you want me to keep looking at you, fine. What's up with this? You've been doing more in thread, but it seems like you're getting on JH for saying he's doing exactly what you've said you're doing. Why is it fine for you to wait to scumhunt until you've got enough to make a case, but it's not alright for JH to wait before pushing someone? 3. The vote on imperfection when mattchew told him to. It wasn't serious, but yet he has been withholding voting keirathi all day but can vote iamperfection, I know it was a joke, but it was an odd post, lumping nisani ghost and iamperfection into one boat. Maybe to confuse people into bandwagoning on another? Clearly you could differentiate between them. Austin never bothered to comment on iamperfections rockband meta even though we just finished that game a week ago and he was in it. Avoiding the fact? Wants to limit the discussion on Iamperfection? Hell he didn't even mention him at all before this joke post. 4. After pointing out keirathis scumminess all day, austin sheeps under gonzaws wing and votes jinglehell for weak reasoning, and then unvotes him for even weaker reasoning which struck me again as not giving a fuck who was lynched. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 02:14 austinmcc wrote: I don't think that ghost is hiding something (The hiro posts are odd but not...hiding something? A connection to look at if either flips), and I agree that Keirathi is missing part of why ghost voted for him. But dropping a vote on someone, walking away, and never engaging the thread when there's active discussion on your vote is not a thing I like. With most of us pretty inactive, it doesn't stick out as much as it would under different circumstances, but it's still not town conduct. Nisani and iamperfection both just look similar to me. I don't have experience playing with nisani, and their play is so similar this game that I'm not overly confident in choosing between them, and I find it unlikely both would be scum. I'd rather vote elsewhere and then see how nisani and iamperfection differentiate themselves over time. ##Vote: JingleHell Thinking about thishas me convinced. If he really feels like he played poorly in PTP3, then the solution is to address the "poorly" part of that, rather than the "played" part. Being non-participatory isn't a better route. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 05:10 austinmcc wrote: Huwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? This just can't be a scum post. Congrats on being town. ##Unvote + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 05:17 austinmcc wrote: No, you think scumJH could actually be making that argument? 4. Town reads on Mattchew and Gonzaw. Explained to the max. This just gives me the wrong feeling and reminds me of Palmar from rockband to a bigger extreme. I know he was asked to do this, but the extent he did it, espeically on day 1 town reads. It seems like he actually knows their alignments. This time coulda been spent scum hunting, or provoking some sort of discussion. No one was even thinking of voting either of these two atm, so why give a huge town read on them? Who are you convincing? Who does this help for day 1? + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 04:26 austinmcc wrote: On Mattchew, it's a couple of his posts. In particular, this one: I'd just mentioned not liking drazerk/snb being so focused on each other:The fact that Mattchew was similarly critical gives me a townie feel. Drazerk's questions the last couple of pages have been good. I hope he would be playing the same way regardless of my comment or matt's comment, I don't think they influenced him, but he and snb being so focused on each other wasn't really helping town based on the reasoning they were providing. His iamperfection question to me felt townie. It's...an odd way to phrase something as scum? Like, you can just say "What is your read?" or "Would you vote iamperfection?" Instead he asks why I'm not voting with him, just an odd little bit of creativity. scumMatt from what I'm seen is either disinterested or...claims scum. Creative questions don't fit the bill for either of those. He's continued to pursue iamperfection, in a noticeably different way than the early voters that I've been critical of. Whereas ghost/nisani just left the thread, and iamperfection stayed focused on ghost, Mattchew has been actively commenting on other matters, has been asking questions to others, has been trying to get iamperfection lynched. It stands out so differently from behavior that I'm finding scummy in others. The gonzaw read is weaker, but the way he returned to thread feels like he was being gonzaw-y. Spammy, finding lots of little stuff, talking about it. In particular, things like this:I like finding odd interactions or posts. This was one of those...interesting finds. Not necessarily scummy, but worth noting. He noted it, explained why he was interested, and then went further later in the post to vote JH after adding in some other stuff. I like that he pulled out a weird interaction, didn't completely disregard it, didn't blast anyone for it, but used it to look further at someone. He asked this which was a good question and something I was going to ask until I saw he'd already done so. He also comes off townie in the way he addresses mementoss here: As I read it, he's concerned with mementoss's post on me. Instead of straight-up saying that, or directly confronting mementoss, he just sort of asks this minor question. What are you doing with it now? It shows me that he's trying to piece things together, that he's actively thinking about alignments. He could have burst in with "this post makes me feel weird," but he doesn't, and dangling that question out without giving a full read comes of townie to me. 5. Finally votes keirathi!! But with only 45 minutes till lynch deadline.... Why?! WHY?! When he has clearly been on him and thought he was scum all day he waits till 45 minutes left to try and lynch him. I'll tell you why, because Iamperfection his teamate the godfather the jack of all trades glados was about to die. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 07:08 austinmcc wrote: Okay, finally seeing some differentiation in some of our early voters. Right now I'm liking ghost's recent outburst and he replaces nisani as the towniest of the three. I actually really like this point:I was so focused on Keirathi's explanations for his mattchew vote that I overlooked this. It does seem off that the contrived case to get discussion going would have more work put into it, and some reliance on meta, when compared to keirathi's actual vote. Especially when players who have played with nisani said he seems townie based off past games. For some reason it makes this post hang in my mind: Keirathi notes that he went way back into Mattchew's games to be complete, for the case that was intended to generate discussion. Keirathi notes that he spends a lot of time in filters even as scum. But now it's just 5 minutes: I'm assuming keirathi didn't time himself, but this + the explanation of the mattchew case/vote + things like this + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 01:10 Keirathi wrote: The difference is there's less than 1/4 of the day left, and JH hadn't done much at all so far besides making excuses as to why he isn't playing to his town meta. ##Vote: Keirathi 6. Heres the cheery on top, Austin at the first of this quote says hes considering me active scum team. He spends the whole post on me, just defending himself. He never touches any scum motivation when writing about me. The purpose of this post was not to get people to think im scum, it was to put himself in the clear. At the end of his post he contradicts the start of his post and says im not getting a strong scum read on him. + Show Spoiler + On October 03 2012 03:45 austinmcc wrote: Concerning Mementoss Gonzaw, he and keirathi are sort of right up there with each other for the people I'm considering for active scum. It's a couple little things: (1) His comments on me feel slightly forcedI can't see what Drazerk is saying. I think the game is getting off to a good start. I don't explain why the unvote isn't scummy well enough for mementoss's liking. I lack logic. I am trying to make Drazerk look bad. I addres some of those points here: See GSL Open II for slow start, which I'd just been killed in. See Drazerk's vote for an option that Keirathi was an "idiot," yet he never really addressed why he was dismissing that option and finding Keirathi to be third party. At least not that I've seen. Note also that in this post I say I didn't find Keirathi's conduct scummy. I say this. I didn't find Keirathi's early play scummy. (2) By the time mementoss posts this, I was finding Keirathi scummy because of the EXPLANATION that he was giving for his mattchew vote/unvote:+ Show Spoiler + I look further into Keirathi On October 01 2012 03:18 austinmcc wrote: Keirathi, I'm a little troubled by this when I look back through your explanation: When you unvote, you specifically note that you want real, meaningful opinions that people can be held accountable for. So you're interested in getting discussion going in general. This seems to not match up. If you wanted people to give opinions, how was your goal accomplished when only Mattchew responded? Now you seem to be responding to Drazerk that you were only concerned with Mattchew and not other people's opinions. The initial justification says you wanted opinions, now you don't even want them. Back to wanting discussion. Why the two inconsistent explanations? You may think this has been covered ad nauseum, but some of your explanations aren't really matching up. On October 01 2012 05:03 austinmcc wrote: There's just a little disconnect there between wanting discussion and being happy to discuss Mattchew with others and then "why do I need someone else's opinion on my case." Like...if your case was meant as a tool to get discussion, then it doesn't matter much what mattchew says or how he responds, because your primary concern is discussion and not his alignment. His response gives you a starting point for MORE discussion, asking people how they feel about his response, etc. Scummy motivation? Just look at your explanation, that you wanted to stop setup speculation and move into something else, generate discussion, because it would help town. RAWR, i am keirathi, the hero who saved town from a slow game, scum would never do that, feed me your town cred! Ymmv, but I'm pretty clearly focused on Keirathi's explanations for the entire thing, not the ease at which he unvoted, which is what I was initially defending/not finding scummy:I'm not concerned with the vote/unvote in the posts that have happened between mementoss's case and this, I'm concerned with Keirathi's explanation for the whole Mattchew shebang, that he wanted opinions yet stopped before he got them, and then stated he didn't need anyone else's opinion. So I don't get mementoss's post: we may just disagree that I completely switched stances. Which is fine. I said I didn't find Keirathi's early play scummy. After looking at his explanation further, I did. I'm probably splitting hairs in trying to separate the vote/unvote from the explanation, but that's because I still don't find the vote/unvote with ease scummy, but I DO find the explanation scummy. They point in different ways for me. But the bolded part here gets stuck in my head. I don't see any post concerning me "flip flopping." I don't see a comment in his initial vote on me about that. I don't see a comment at any point while I'm going back and forth with Keirathi about me flip flopping. This is the first time I see it, and I have no idea what it's referencing. This is ODD. It gives off scummy vibes, because it indicates that mementoss misremembers what he was calling me out for (not focused on actually calling me out, more focused on just making a case), or, the more paranoid option, that this is part of some planned attack and there's a post that should have come, calling me a flip-flopper, but never did. Neither option gives me a townie feeling. (3) Then he's got this post as well:That post does read weird, because he's reading it seriously. Like I said to keirathi, + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 04:12 austinmcc wrote: Found Mattchew's question to be real but posed in a silly way (What is your read on iamperfection?). Gave him a real answer, but started with a silly beginning. On October 02 2012 04:34 austinmcc wrote: Oh, no. It was meant as a silly response and vote, not that I'm finding him more scummy than the others. That question isn't "Why am I voting iamperfection? Let me tell you!" It was "Why am I joining you in voting for iamperfection when these other two look almost the same?" Not actually hopping on the wagon. Mattchew's question looked silly. I gave a silly answer. I am sometimes silly in thread. But mementoss pulls this up later: Read my vote/unvote. I'm not sheeping onto iamperfection because Mattchew asks me to. I vote him as a JOKE, unvote him, and then ask why I should be lynching iamperfection over ghost/nisani, and why I find the three to be similar. I do not know how this is interpreted as me jumping on a wagon. If I were jumping on a wagon, I wouldn't unvote and ask why I was lynching one instead of the other two. I was joking and then seriously asking mattchew why he was on iamperfection over others. Again, it's this weird disconnect where mementoss doesn't quite seem to be reading my responses. Or he just dislikes my responses but never really voices that when they come out. I misread him in Rock Band as scum when he was town, and I'm not getting as strong a scum read here, but flip flop posts that don't actually exist, not really reading my posts but continuing to just poke at me don't result in a townie feel. This quip stuck out to me as well, just as very interesting: (Mementoss, why is Gonzaw the N1 kill? I'd like to see your reasoning behind this statement) Beyond that, I agree with all three of these:I remember him being around a good bit, I remember some posts of his, but I'm not sure that I would if he didn't attack me. He kind of blended in, and there were some major points (Mattchew trying to drum up iamperfection lynch, the JH discussion, the ghost/keirathi bit at the end) where he's just not seeming concerned. But yet he didn't move off of iamperfection, and attacked him early, and also responded to keirathi about iamperfection's meta. A lot of his posts on me just confuse me. They don't give me a townie vibe, but he's picking up on things that I would probably pick up on as well. The joke-vote looks really odd when it's just text and I didn't put a disclaimer as to what I was doing. But it feels like he's detached from actually pushing me, just like he was detached from pushing iamperfection. And that "flip-flopping" comment...I can't figure out where that comes from. Am I being overly paranoid thinking there was some sequence of posts he thought he'd made? I'm still more sold on Keirathi as the active scum. But mementoss is my secondary candidate, and if I'm being purely speculative, one of the people I could most see being third party. It's the only way I can really rectify my read based on his general play AND the fact that he voted for scum. So I want to keep an eye on him even though he voted iamperfection. 7. Is aware he plays scummy on day 1, but has no motivation to change it. This is really just an excuse for acting scummy while being scum. I gotta go now. But that is all I have. Austin has had some townie posts in his filter I will admit, but the strange way he goes about things makes me think he is scum. His contradictions that he doesn't think are contradictions make me think he is scum. (5) Did Mementoss go re-read filters? If so...WHAT DID HE FIND? My answers? Of course! + Show Spoiler + (1) I don't really see any! (2) It looks like he's participating, but really he's not. He's just chiming in with "helpful thoughts" and never actually taking any action on those himself. (3) Based on the QT from SNNM8, Mementoss wants to know reads and where he can push, when to push, etc. This feels like him gathering information, getting everyone to give thoughts so he can see where to push. (4) No way! Look at that post (and some earlier ones I can dig up or you can dig up). I'm scummy for specific reasons. There are quotes. There are specific behaviors. There's a cohesive reason why my play is scummy, what i've done is scummy, and it's detailed. This game, not only are we not seeing that, but he's NOT specific with his scumreads at all. They're very amorphous, like he doesn't want to be held to anything. (5) It doesn't really appear so! He never seems to reference anything he found, although he does TALK about filters, he gives no real indication that he knows what's in them. | ||
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I'll note that this post, one of the ones you're linking concerning da0ud, feels more interesting given the D1 flip On October 13 2012 00:12 EchelonTee wrote: This post is pretty strange from you. You spent a fairly long post (listed above) detailing your opinions on 3 players, in an organized listed manner. But when it comes to 1der vs ON, a matchup that actually is in play right now, you are much more unclear and hesitant. 1. This point doesn't really hold; you say that a townie who is still in the running for a lynch would probably be more active, which is true. But a scum who is up for lynch would also probably be more active, compared to if he wasn't up for lynch. While I have my own reasons for being suspicious of ON, your logic here is a lot less laid out then your previous points. 2. It's not ok to put down an opinion, then say "well I'm not so sure because I'm a newbie". It seems like you're trying to shy away from responsibility for your actions. Especially because you are more assertive in other posts. If you could make a more definitive stance on 1der/ON, that would be nice. | ||
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On October 16 2012 06:22 EchelonTee wrote: I might lean more scummy on mmt as of late since da0ud could just be noobie, but I don't really think prplhz/mmt would try and defend each other so hard? It's possible though. I don't think I've played with scumprplhz before, so I don't know what's possible for him. Reading mementoss's thoughts in scum QT give me the sense that he wouldn't defend a fellow scumbuddy so hard. Granted, IF mementoss is scum this game then he's run into more trouble already than he did in that other mini, and this is themed whereas that wouldn't, so might affect how he plays. But based on that game I don't see him super defending a scumbuddy. | ||
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Here...you really look scummy. You're basically active enough in thread while saying nothing. What you're saying is pro-town at points, "Guys let's do this," "Everyone should read x," but it doesn't appear that you're DOING those things, and you have no desire to actually push people to do those things. It looks like you're trying to SAY or DO something townie, but the lack of followup gives me the impression that you yourself aren't townie, or you'd keep pushing those things. I repeat, for townies reading this, it looks like Mementoss is mentally checking the "do/say this thing to look town" box, because there's no actual conviction behind the little townie quips he's made. You wanted to read filters because "I don't want to just say LOL d0ad prplhz pass da potato gg guyz. Then if one of them flips town, everyone just says "fuck" and town loses its good start." But you've:
Also, that entire post is just why you are scummy for D2. For all this chatter but doing nothing. It doesn't even factor in how in aperture townie mementoss was making cases on MULTIPLE players D1 , moving his vote around, explaining himself, being VOCAL about his targets and his reasons. It doesn't factor in the ON connective stuff from this game. It doesn't factor in your ducking some questions D1,. | ||
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On October 16 2012 07:31 prplhz wrote: austinmcc are you going to give it back to me if i give it to you? Right now, I'd be giving it to mementoss. If I had the potato, I'd take another look at the double Ds and at you, but currently he's my strongest scumread. | ||
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Again, this is not true hat's just the same as if i give it to da0ud except i get to keep control You do not have control unless you know when it's going off, which is information you should be sharing if you had it and were town. | ||
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On October 16 2012 08:10 Mementoss wrote: kush could be scum as well This is still not contributing anything useful... | ||
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On October 16 2012 09:06 Djodref wrote: No fucking way ! Why did you hold onto it like this if you were town ? Read his posts... On October 16 2012 07:30 prplhz wrote: if i keep it then you lynch da0ud tomorrow (hopefully it'll be a more reliable lynch mechanism) and that's just the same as if i give it to da0ud except i get to keep control. so it's either keep it or give it to a scum read who wants to give it back. since you guys a bitching so much about me giving it to EchelonTee i'll consider not giving it to him and just blowing up. technically that's not really you lynching me and i'll see if i can convince myself of that. On October 16 2012 07:37 prplhz wrote: i don't think you read it. exploding da0ud and just keeping it until i die will lead to the same outcome for me. i will die either way, it's just the order that's different. giving it to da0ud will expose Mementoss though and he's probably town so i don't want to do that. there, i control that Mementoss doesn't blow up by keeping the potato. keeping control. He wanted control over what happened today, and to push for a da0ud lynch tomorrow over Mementoss. | ||
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I'm interested in what you meant by this: On October 10 2012 04:20 HiroPro wrote: Going to be changing the way I play this game. How are you changing your play, and do you feel that you've done so? You've been very, very reserved. You haven't commented on a whole lot. Despite just playing a game with you as scum, I don't feel that I have a great handle on your scum play, as it felt different in Rockband and Aperture 2. If you're town, you're existing at the edges of everyone's scummy zone, and that's no bueno. Hard to tell whether you're being lightly pushed for a mislynch later or whether you're actually scummy. Rereading Hiro, I don't find the links between his play here and aperture as strong as I was before. There was something about the way he summarily announced votes on D1 that reminded me of some of his aperture votes - On October 13 2012 05:01 HiroPro wrote: Nothing. But I think hopeless is probably town. And ON is basically useless. WAS reminding me of some very cursory votes/explanations Hiro gave there, stuff like - On October 11 2012 05:57 HiroPro wrote: fuck it. if ghost isn't going to answer for the stuff that doesn't make sense, I'll just lynch him. ##Vote ghost_403 On October 12 2012 04:41 HiroPro wrote: happy birthday gonzaw. I'm totes down for a Jingle lynch. But upon looking over the small amount of posts Hiro has about votes/suspicions, there's some reasoning given, and it feels like legit reasons to differentiate the people he's voting/not voting. Again, I'm less concerned about Hiro than before. I do not have a scumread on him. However, IF he's town, he's going to be a mislynch target for scum. Lowish activity, not much in the way of reads, and people will jump on and vote him. I'll admit that I don't quite pick up the distinctions between lurky townHiro in games like PTP3 and lurky scumHiro in games like Rockband/Aperture, but he's town in my book right now by virtue of just not looking scummy. | ||
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In looking over the D1 votes, you said: On October 14 2012 22:22 da0ud wrote: I would look for scum people within the ones here around deadline and trying to put focus on Sandrosa... Only kush, austin and prplhz were here. I cannot see how prplhz could be scum because he is the one who actually changed the fate of Sand. But later in D2, you said: On October 15 2012 22:50 da0ud wrote: Edit : I am pretty sure that the scum team is mementoss and prplz. Just kush is getting on my nerves right now You don't mention how you went from not being able to see how prplhz could be scum to how you were pretty sure he was scum with mementoss. Why and when did you become convinced prplhz was scum? | ||
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On October 17 2012 04:39 kushm4sta wrote: Very little. I just played scum with him but I haven't had a great grasp of it in the past. Apparently it's noticeable if you actually read him over though.Boo don't trust thrawn. A lot of your case relies on null tells like lurking. But yeah I don't think the case against Daoud is super strong. 1der and Hiro are scummy seeming nulls imo. Does anyone have meta insight into Hiro's play? Since he gave up on tunelling me earlier I haven't really noticed him. He was quite active in Bureaucracy, asking a lot of questions that felt like they had clear purposes behind them. I mislynched him in PTP3 for being less active, and was informed that he was pretty clearly his townie self but low activity. I would recommend looking at PTP3 Hiro for low-activity town, vs Rockband/Aperture Hiro for low-activity scum. | ||
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Nobody has answered the book club questions. Nobody has pointed out mementoss BEING useful/townie on D2, although there were posts of his that FELT useful/townie. That is quite scummy to me, as it shows someone wanting to LOOK useful/townie, without actually putting in the effort to BE so. I like to use CAPS sometimes to EMPHASIZE things. Djo, earlier you were: On October 15 2012 19:54 Djodref wrote: I've checked the filters again, with the assumption that one of prplhz and daoud is scum and that we have exactly 3 scums this game. I have a town read on thrawn because he's promoting good discussion in the thread, he is active and he is clearly trying to find scum. I have a town read on kush from his meta. But I would like him to put more efforts on scumhunting to be sure. It's more difficult for me to read austin and ET because it's the first time for me to play with them, I'm leaning towards town for ET because I feel like he is honest in his posts. I can't see any other intention that trying to find scum, also dumping ON like he did would make no sense at all for scum. For austin, I'm also leaning towards town. I really liked his mementoss case and he looks clearly invested in the scumhunt. So, for the last scum, I'm torn between Mementoss and Hiro and I have a special option on Hopeless. Hence my previous post. I would say Mementoss right now but I've just been reading other people opinion so I need more time to think by myself. thinking Hopeless/mementoss, but you said you'd been reading other people's opinions. Overnight, you've now gone Hopeless/Hiro. Why do you think mementoss is not scum? ET's whole "When I'm scum I do whatever to ensure that I can win" bit partially/completely invalidates his voting for hopeless1der over ON. We should not be treating him as confirmed town, although it doesn't seem like many people are at this point. Although he didn't give out specific tactics or anything that he'd consider using D1 here as scum, the statement about doing whatever he needs to in order to win the game feels like a truthful summary of what he thinks his scum play is. Hammering a scumbuddy in a round that does not definitively end in a lynch is a great way to put yourself in a good position to win the game. ET, I still think your attack on prplhz was pretty crappy, and it felt like you neither made the strongest case you could nor pushed it like you could. The fact that you stuck to analogizing to things prplhz had done as town and wasn't doing here, never touching what scum prplhz does and analogizing that to things he did here is crap. You never updated your case in response to that accusation either. | ||
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ET. I would like to hear some updated...general thoughts on the game. D1 you had some nice comments about how un-theme-ing themed games generally helped town, some praise for sandroba's comments on how to scumhunt, some other generic thoughts like: On October 12 2012 01:05 EchelonTee wrote: Game will be fun because it seems that scum is running good interference. Also, it just seems fun because we have good activity from good players. We now know that scum let ON get into the final round, and let him get lynched. Therefore, they were NOT running good interference really, although they got sandroba close to being lynched. What does that tell you, in general, about the rest of the scumteam this game? Are they inexperienced? Do they just not like VE, so they wanted to get ON killed in order to not deal with VE replacing in? Did they run so much interference and influence so many lynches in the first 2 rounds that they simply ran out of gas and couldn't influence R3 and R4 enough? I'd like you to comment on mementoss a little. Yes, you have posted on him. And linked back to those comments. prplhz flipped town, so according to your post yesterday mementoss was then one of top scumreads. Is this still the case? What was the towniest thing mementoss did D2? Do you agree with mementoss's case on me? Also, I'd like your thoughts on the N1 kill. Sandroba made it to R4. He wasn't considered the towniest townie on townie town. Yet he was the first townie to be offed. Why? Does the choice of the N1 kill tell you anything about the scum team? | ||
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On October 17 2012 05:24 kushm4sta wrote: @austin I will answer your questions but I am in the process of rereading the thread. I don't get why you think daoud is town, especially after you bring up how he said there's no way prpl can be scum. Thinking back to that, my scumread on him is much stronger. It seems like he already knew prpl was town. hard fos daoud at this point I think daoud is our best lynch. He reminds me of me in terms of odd comments like how the lower seeds might have rigged the bracket D1 and be scum. That feels like a paranoid townie comment. Also, this post is very, very townie to me: On October 12 2012 18:06 da0ud wrote: Trying to get some reads/assocation of people from previous votes. 1) Only ET has been twice voting for someone he would face in the next round. Djo in the first round when he had a BYE and kush in second. If he was a scum, I would them believe Djo and kush are not. Because at first glance it doesnt seem logic to vote for your mate so that one of you for sure would advance to the next round. He is the only one who has ever voted on the next potential opponent. 2) on Mementoss : he seems to be throwing away votes on as many people as possible and of oppisite logic. Already voted for 4 people which is the most of all of us. First round he votes for Djo and kush to make them move to the next round on their respective matches. But when they move on he decides to now vote on none of them but even worse voting for their opponents in the matchups hence actually totally changing his mind on them and now backing them up. Should have voted again for them to follow his initial logic. 3) Austin looks too unconcerned after being saved on the first round, He hasn't voted anyone in the second round. Looks to me more like a scum who now hides to get us to forget about him. To me a townie, even saved should continue to be implicated in the votes in order to gather as much information as possible on other players. Please let me know your thoughts.... That's a good observation about mementoss. Voting for player X in R1, and then voting player X's opponent in R2? Changing over like that without really explaining yourself was a nice catch. His reaction to the R3 Hopeless/ON/ET bit. It's actually slightly odd, but for now I read it as townie. He seemed quite happy that ET pushed ON through to R4, then saddened when he thought ET's votes wouldn't count. I have a hard time believing he both: (1) let ON through to R4 AND (2) faked those posts. That's something that will stick in the back of my head though, they either look VERY townie and real, or VERY scummy and fake. Currently reading them as real, but if he's got the capabality to fake those posts, then it's a good move to do so as scum. He's scummy on mementoss. There's all sorts of whispers about da0ud scum. But he doesn't flip out D2 and try to super-address them, nor does he absolutely let them slide and lurk. I like the way he interacted with suspicions on him, asking people why they found him scummy, and still pushing his own reads the whole time. | ||
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On October 13 2012 11:08 da0ud wrote: Wahouuu I didn't see the 6 votes on Hopeless from kush and at the last second you actually vote on ON. Only looked at the update. Happy with how it went then ! On October 13 2012 11:10 da0ud wrote: What if he has a town read on Hope, then his last second vote makes perfect sense It's not super spectacular, and it may be staged, but I don't read it as such atm. | ||
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On October 17 2012 06:00 kushm4sta wrote: damn austin your posts always convince me. He does seem quite town from those quotes. I guess thinking prpl was town was a coincidence. I want to see his answer to the prplhz read. I think I know his reasoning but I want to doublecheck, and if his reasoning was what I think then he stays on my townie list. | ||
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On October 17 2012 08:01 kitaman27 wrote: icwutudidthergg ET | ||
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There's also the option that ET is solid and hadn't posted much of substance lately. If you off me, you have my thoughts on about half the thread. If you off ET, we don't really know what he's been thinking the last little bit. | ||
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On October 17 2012 09:59 kushm4sta wrote: that was just my if i die post.. i had to do it quickly. memetoss you are town mostly because I actually read the thread from the beginning and you seemed over quite town. I think people are getting caught up on certain moves you made and not looking at the big picture. I would like to hear specifics on these moves. | ||
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On October 17 2012 09:21 kushm4sta wrote: I think due to lynch craziness there are no power roles. No one got rbed or anything right? One reason I'm thinking power roles of some sort exist: On October 13 2012 23:57 kitaman27 wrote: In the interest of moving things along due to the extended day one cycle, you may submit night actions early if you wish. When I have received all night actions, the night cycle will end.You still have a maximum of 24 hours to send them in after the day one lynch is decided. night actionS. When I have received all night actionS On October 14 2012 11:01 JingleHell wrote: It is now night. You have 24 hours to get your night actions submitted to myself and Kitaman. If they're all submitted early, as Kita stated before, the following Day post may come early. night actionS. If they're ALL submitted early. We have not seen rb claims. We have not seen medic protects. However, we've only seen 1 KP per night, and the N1 posts make pretty clear that there were multiple actions to be received. Moreover, Sandroba made it to R4 in D1. That means he didn't look uber-town. Yet scum chose to kill him. Why? He's been known to be a dangerous scumhunter. If scum killing him was the only action, I would expect it to happen EARLY. He was killed because they were afraid to let him live, and killing him early in the night would be better than giving him time to get some night thoughts out. So the fact that night didn't end almost immediately means that scum killing sandroba was probably not the only action that needed to come in. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(1) On October 13 2012 16:00 sandroba wrote: I'm not going to fight against this lynch. This is simply too stupid to fight over and I don't feel like it. If you people stopped one second to look at this thread you would come to realise that is simply no way I'm scum purely based on how this situation came to be. Also there is no case against me. I refuse to defend myself against the ignorant uninformed opinion of a bunch of riotters. This is no way to play mafia. You have to look at the intricacies and not follow the mob rule that is usually driven by scum. I leave you sheep to your fate. My reads so far is that ET austin hiro and kush are town. I honestly don't know anymore about ON cuz I would expect him to try to at least keep apearances as scum. This djodref is either very dumb or scum. You would never as town (and inteligent) feel that a person that is standing up to you against the majority trying to lynch would be scum. Prpl and mementos are prob scum. Sandroba said nothing about mementoss beyond this point. In response to me asking what his top two scum reads were if prplhz was town, ET wrote: On October 16 2012 06:22 EchelonTee wrote: I might lean more scummy on mmt as of late since da0ud could just be noobie, but I don't really think prplhz/mmt would try and defend each other so hard? It's possible though. ET said nothing about mementoss after this point. Moreover, the main reason he appears unsure of mementoss is that prplhz/mmt mafia team wouldn't be defending each other so hard. prplhz flipped town, that reason is out the window. So, point 1 is that both NKs have stated that they believed mementoss to be scummy, under the flips we've had (ET had him scummy if prplhz flipped town, which happened). They shared that read. Moreover, this partially explains why I'm not dead, if you think I should have died last night. I have come out with strong suspicions of mementoss. Both of them mentioned him as scummy, but sandroba didn't go into detail and ET didn't really update that read after prplhz flipped. They are great players to take out if mementoss is scum, because when you look over their filters, you don't get a clear "This NKed person found mementoss scummy" train of thought. If I die, the strongest read I've had is mementoss, and so he's much more in the spotlight. (2) mementoss is a solid player from what I've seen. He played quite well in Aperture, we needed to take him out N1 as scum. In this game, IF mementoss were town, I would expect scum to go "Sandroba scummy on mementoss" and "ET scummy on mementoss" and "Austin and da0ud wrote cases on mementoss" and try to push mementoss. If mementoss were town, someone would be sheeping me, because getting a lynch on a strong townie as scum is great, it saves you a NK. Instead, we're arguing over whether to lynch da0ud? me? Again, IF mementoss were town this game, there's a real nice avenue for scum to push for his lynch. They haven't done so. ET and Sandroba both NKed, ET and Sandroba both scummy on this guy, yet scum isn't using that to push a mislynch. mementoss slightly less likely to be town based on that. This concludes the NK/dead folks' reads portion of crap I'm going to say right now. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Here is the post where I see you finding mementoss town: On October 17 2012 12:01 kushm4sta wrote: This is your first "case" on memetoss. You say his early game looks town. And yeah it looks town as fuck. His activity cuts off quite a bit. I don't think this is really a scumtell. It fits his meta to sometimes afk. Your second point is memetoss' 1 vote idea. I had that idea too. Not a scumtell. It's a huge reach to say that this was a conspiracy theory to control the vote. Third point: he's willing to gave away votes. So were you. Also he didn't. Also this directly contradicts your idea of trying to control the vote with his scumteam. 4th point: He got pissed at ET for votebombing ON. So did I. The thing was I really thought he was a bad lynch, until sandroba started looking really town and ON was the only other option. He was a null read for everyone, and you can't blame anyone for not wanting to lynch him. 5th point: Meme toss voted for ON anyway. That's because he didn't think Sandroba was scummy. You have to realize that he was pissed about sending ON over 1der, but that is a completely different story than ON over sandroba. 6th point: He didn't answer ALL of your questions. Your questions were fucked up and pretty unanswerable though. 7th point: He says apathetic voting is horshshit. Well it is anti town so that's prob what he meant? Your book club questions: memetoss has been way more active at pushing his suspicions than someone like thrawn for instance. Also I know what it's like to play this game at work and it's really hard to be in depth and include details. I get the sense that he was keeping up on the thread and writing down his observations mostly. I do this a lot and maybe it's not super helpful but I think it's quite risky and dangerous for scum to do. Memetoss=town, sorry austin. That was my first case on mementoss. So, for starters, you should look at the thoughts I've had after that. Specifically addressing some of the reasons you found him townie: The 3rd point. He's willing to give away votes, so was I, contradicts my idea of trying to control the vote with the scumteam.
The 4th point. ON was a null read and I can't blame anyone for not wanting to vote him. Mementoss was actively upset at ET that he voted NOT-ON. If ON was null to mementoss, there would be no reason to get so worked up. If someone finds one of my null reads scummy or townie, oh well. I don't have a strong read on that person. But Mementoss is concerned that ET voted ON, which implies that Mementoss actually has a read on ON, or is, at the very least, not null on ON. You wouldn't get upset that a null read went further. It shows that Mementoss is actively concerned with what happens to ON, rather than purely null on him. The 6th and 7th point. Those questions were not meaningless. Some of those questions are difficult for scum to answer. If you ask a scum what he would do this game as scum, you're forcing him to think. Does he give up his actual plan? Does he lie and hope you don't know his play? He has to consider what he's saying, really think and work at an answer. But he never provides an answer to some, and doesn't give his reasoning for saying apathetic voting is horseshit. If he's town and thinks apathetic voting is horseshit, he should be able to explain exactly why, and whether it's town or scum horseshit. Instead, he just calls it horseshit and doesn't follow-up. In effect, although "horseshit" looks like a strong accusation, it's wishy-washy. He refuses to say if it's town horseshit or scum horseshit, refuses to make a read off it. Mementoss is throwing things into thread that LOOK good, but when you go a level deeper, there's nothing THERE. Horseshit didn't mean scummy horseshit, it was just a colorful adjective that was actually wishy-washy. I'll address the book club questions in a sec. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 18 2012 00:08 Hopeless1der wrote: 1-da0ud 2-austinmcc 3-djodref 4-HiroPro 5-kushm4sta 6-thrawn2112 7-Mementoss 8-Hopeless1der Obviously I'm biased due to his case, but MMT has been berating us constantly for not actively pushing scumreads and I kept seeing him saying things that weren't true Day1 regarding voting on your own matchups. I sincerely doubt that a scumteam would allow him to continue to misunderstand the lynch mechanics like that, or that he'd be so careless if he were scum. Be back later, need to go do work for a change.
I'd like to note that earlier you said: On October 15 2012 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote: The general consensus (which I agree with) is that one of da0ud or prplhz should be lynched. Personally, I think da0ud is more likely scum. The lynch mechanic itself has too much randomness to it for us to make a proper plan. At this point I have no intention of hiding. If I turn up with the potato, da0ud will be my first choice. Beyond that, I'd be looking for scummy things from other players. Things like MMT wanting us to ignore ON's flip to prove prplhz or da0ud being scum. They were both out in the first round. Other than the known information of scum flipping, it is extremely difficult to demonstrate scum motive for them when they are already safe from the lynch day1. The bulk of my read on da0ud revolves around his interaction with ON's situation. But apart from that, it's time to address your first point, and it's time to really dig deep into those discussion questions, to look at what the author of the book that is Mementoss's filter was trying to say with his posts. And so A Tale of Two Mementi Here is Mementoss "actively berating us for not actively pushing scumreads" - + Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 03:45 Mementoss wrote: @Hopeless stop defending yourself and give us your two best scum reads or your view of the matchups and who you are thinking of voting On October 15 2012 20:41 Mementoss wrote: It bothers me that everyone is just dropping in the thread and is like sup d0ad and prplhz scum. Without giving much reason. Its killing the discussion. Also holding the potato until you think its about to explode than passing it is a bad idea, cause really you have NO idea when its going to explode. I think you should just pass the potato to your scum read ASAP. The more time you have the potato, the greater chance you have of lynching yourself. You know your alignment and if you are town this is bad. That stuff being said I need to re-read the filters cause I don't want to just say LOL d0ad prplhz pass da potato gg guyz. Then if one of them flips town, everyone just says "fuck" and town loses its good start, NOTE THAT LAST PARAGRAPH OF THIS POST, WHICH WILL APPEAR AGAIN On October 15 2012 21:01 Mementoss wrote: No kush stop shutting down discussion. If hes town why the fuck would he hold on to an explosive potato. On October 15 2012 21:27 Mementoss wrote: Work Time now, so I don't have time to explain. Hopefully will before the potato blows I would MUCH rather lynch d0ad over prplhz. If you actually read prplhz filter he looks pretty town ignoring the fact he really thought sandroba was scum. But guess what? Townies are wrong most of the time. They don't have the information like scum. They can't manufacturer reads based on this information. That looks like what da0d has been doing all game, picking people to make cases on and manufacturing them after the fact. Also, to everyone saying lolz da0d/ prplhz pass between eachother. (kush) I want a detailed post on why you think they are both scum. Including stuff that doesn't have to do with ON flipping scum. Also think if you had the potato and you knew you were town. Why the fuck would you listen to anyone else or hold the potato because someone told you to? Holding the potato as town makes no sense. Holding the potato as scum, makes more sense to get town cred. Telling people what they have do with the potato without a good reason, or they will be lynched is complete scum motivation. If I had the potato, I would not hold that thing a second longer than I had to, and would be putting it on my top scum read, not someone elses. Why? You know your own alignment and no one elses. You can only trust yourself at that point. On October 15 2012 21:38 Mementoss wrote: Before I go kush how are your actions today town or benefitting the town, how can you be this confident to kill all discussion? People. Go re-read kush. again on kush to stop "killing discussion," which I'm giving him credit for as a "stop jerking around and hunt scum" Here is Mementoss's own thought on what he tried to do D2: On October 16 2012 10:37 Mementoss wrote: at least I tried to get people off the tunnelling da0d and prplhz all day and wasting the day. I tried to get people to pass the potato around so that this wouldn't happen. I may not have had time to read through everything and flesh out some big thoughts. But I was trying to tell people to get off them and pass the potato. Without the potato passing people didn't have to do anything. we let hiro do nothing we let kush do nothing and "plan" the rest of the games lynches you'd think ET who had a townie status by almost all would do something other than lolz prplhz scum and post a picture god damn. The funny thing is in a mini its more than likely all these guys are scum. so anti town. oh well, lets learn from it and have a better day 2. I will look into hiro and kush specifcally before nights end. I doubt scum will want to kill me. But just incase. EVERYONE READ THOSE. LOOK AT ALL THE TIMES MEMENTOSS WANTS US TO STOP TALKING ABOUT PRPLHZ/DA0UD. LOOK AT ALL THE TIMES WE SHOULD BE SCUMHUNTING. LOOK AT HOW EVERYONE NEEDS TO WRITE UP WHY PRPLHZ AND DA0UD IS SCUM. Man, mementoss is one townie mo-fo berating us like that. But, what is mementoss doing himself? Mementoss scumhunting - + Show Spoiler + Early D1 we get thoughts on all matchups. Late D1, when ON at risk, we get On October 13 2012 22:53 Mementoss wrote: Also ET I know you explained it but its still fucking weird that you LAST MINUTE dropped all your votes on ON, after expecting him for a modkill, not having a read on him. And having a scum read on hopeless all of the first 2 cycles, you save him last minute. Not sure which way I will be voting today yet. On October 15 2012 20:41 Mementoss wrote: It bothers me that everyone is just dropping in the thread and is like sup d0ad and prplhz scum. Without giving much reason. Its killing the discussion. Also holding the potato until you think its about to explode than passing it is a bad idea, cause really you have NO idea when its going to explode. I think you should just pass the potato to your scum read ASAP. The more time you have the potato, the greater chance you have of lynching yourself. You know your alignment and if you are town this is bad. That stuff being said I need to re-read the filters cause I don't want to just say LOL d0ad prplhz pass da potato gg guyz. Then if one of them flips town, everyone just says "fuck" and town loses its good start, In the same post where he first says we need to not just discuss prplhz/da0ud, he says he needs to reread filters cuz he doesn't want to just say that. He wants to do MORE. On October 15 2012 21:38 Mementoss wrote: Before I go kush how are your actions today town or benefitting the town, how can you be this confident to kill all discussion? People. Go re-read kush. People, go re-read kush. Why? I dunno. Does he think kush is scum? I dunno. Look at this post. It's wishy-washy. He is intimating that kush is scum, without taking a hard stance and saying so. On October 16 2012 05:11 Mementoss wrote: I take back thinking prplhz being town. Him trying to kill ET has no town motivation and the fact he can't even explain why is even worse. Only thing I can think of is prplhz trying to kill ET before he is inevitely lynched? Things that still make me think hes town. He's not trying to push the case on me so that the lynch targets extend from him and da0d to him da0d and me. I thought prplhz was town. Not he's trying to kill ET, so he's scum. But here are some things that make me think he's town. WISHY WASHY WISHY WASHY WISHY WASHY. Note that mementoss STILL hasn't told us about what he found rereading prplhz/da0ud, he STILL hasn't given us a scum read. At this point, mementoss is berating people for sitting on prplhz and da0ud, saying we should hunt, but HE IS NOT DOING THAT HIMSELF. He's maybe-scummy on kush. He's townie-scummy-townie on prplhz. After I call out mementoss again: On October 16 2012 06:47 Mementoss wrote: Also I did read the filters I couldn't find anything really that damming. I'm not gunna make up a case for the fact of making up a case. Oh look. I reread the filters, "couldn't find anything damning." No specifics. Not gonna say whether he has town reads on prplhz and da0ud or anything, just that he won't make up a case. WISHY WASHY. He won't make a case on them...so they're town? But he just said prplhz attacked ET made him rethink his townread. On October 16 2012 06:55 Mementoss wrote: EBWOP: However, I was at work will re-read and see what I can dig up. I made some quick notes. I'll reread again. On October 16 2012 08:10 Mementoss wrote: kush could be scum as well Thanks. Super informative. Why? How does he feel about prplhz and da0ud? WE STILL DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW. HE'S STILL DONE NO SCUMHUNTING. This is the most scumhunting he's done D2...that kush might be scum, with no reasons given. OKAY. TIME TO PULL BACK AGAIN. Mementoss wants everyone to give clear thoughts as to why prplhz and da0ud are scum, wants to generate extra discussion. However, HE:
THAT is the tale of two mementi. YES, he is "berating" town, or harping at people for not scumhunting or giving clear thoughts. Yet he is not scumhunting, and "kush maybe scum" and "prplhz was town, but is scum, but here's why he might be town" are not clear thoughts. What happens AFTER D2? AH! Look! On October 16 2012 20:27 Mementoss wrote: also I know im all over the place a bit as far as reads go but im not completely sure what to think after what was day 2. Gotta re-evaluate da0d. As well as read into kush/hiro/hopeless. Hey guys, I still don't know what my reads are. I need to re-evaluate da0ud. I need to read 3 people. On October 16 2012 20:35 Mementoss wrote: To clarify I'm not saying I think ET is def scum, or that I want to lynch him. I'm just saying my town read on him has dropped to null and anyone else with a town read on him should re-consider or re-read him. I don't think ET is scum. I had a town read on him, now it's null. Everyone should re-read him. Again, wishy washy wishy washy. On October 17 2012 07:36 Mementoss wrote: fuck im not going to have enough time to do hiro and kush I have looked at some filters, but out of the 4 I said I'd look at I only have time for 2 On October 17 2012 07:51 Mementoss wrote: hai now I caught 66% of the scum team day 1 in aperture gym time now Hiro Hopeless austin kush, can't all be scum. I like the above djos points on da0d at the moment. I will have to re-assess my case on Austin based on his more recent actions, scum austin does a decent job at looking town though. Short version in my noodle before gym and nights end. Hopeless's faking scum thing made no sense to me had me thinking he was scum for a while and then his lurking all of day 2 makes him look worse. Kush's day 1 play seemed townie, but his day 2 play had scum motivation all over it. Shutting down discussion while being active in the thread, and planning the lynch for the next day. Also making an anti-town potato plan. Hiro is lurking hard I don't remember what he did day 1 to be honest will have to revisit how he voted. Didn't do anything day 2 other than hold the potato way too long day 2, to start day 2 off on a lulll and shut down discussion, than ultimately pass it to a planning. Austins more recent posting seems to be getting everyone active and trying to pick up a town that lost a shit load of momentum, im willing to consider he may be town, but this guy is tricky. I think we have better more secure lynches tomorrow though because hes a good asset to the town, and there are people that seem to be more likely to flip scum. This was all in like 10 minutes so if I fucked anythng up my bad.
Read mementoss asking town to not just talk about prplhz/da0ud. Then read mementoss's actual contributions D2. Apoligies for not scumhunting. Never having time. Not once giving a very clear read. He made a half-assed case D2, it was on me, and he thinks I might be town and doesn't seem to want to lynch me, the only guy he's made a case on. Mementoss is asking town to take actions that he never takes himself. Mementoss puts NO effort into forcing town to do what he wants, and puts NO effort into scumhunting himself that I see Mementoss is a better townie than that. Mementoss writes cases, votes, has reads, he pushes people. Here, he SAID townie stuff, but didnt' DO townie stuff, and didn't PUSH town to do the townie things he wanted. Mementoss is scum this game. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
NO. NO NO NO NO NO. There's an Ace quote somewhere in a newbie guide or a post-thread wrap-up or something. It's a quote I like, a rule I've used (but I can never seem to dig up and find). But basically, actions count for more than posts. And if POSTS look townie, whereas the actual actions conflict with them, then the posts are fabricated. A townie doesn't just make townie smelling posts, a townie ACTS on those. Mementoss made townie smelling posts asking thread to give real reasons why prplhz/da0ud were scum. Mementoss never gave real reasons D2 why ... ANYONE was scum (except his thoughts on me, which he then backed off of). Mementoss never gave thoughts on da0ud after rereading filter. Mementoss's thoughts on prplhz were townie-scummy-townie. He has been wishy washy all game on everything since the first couple rounds. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 18 2012 02:56 thrawn2112 wrote: Austin what do you think about da0? He qualifies for a lot of the same nk points you made about mementoss although he's way more in the spotlight. Right now, some of da0's play reminds me of how I started and played in LV when I was town. I'm finding him townie based on that although that's...poor logic. I keep coming back to that set of posts aimed at ET/Hopeless/ON. Right now, I don't think those are fabricated. I'm not looking at da0ud for scum, and those posts as fabricated, unless we're really running low on options later on. He entered the thread very joke-y and his posts stood out (aliens, mini-scum), which I wouldn't expect from first-time/new scum. Those ET/ON/Hopeless posts don't feel forced. He super duper actively BUDDIED people D1, which someone should have been telling him not to do (although he did stop, again, a consideration ONLY if he's left after a while and we don't have good scum targets). I do not think da0ud is scum As to the NKs. Mementoss is a dangerous townie for scum to leave up. I do not know if da0ud is a dangerous townie for scum to leave up. If I'm scum, again, I'm going to try and somewhat push mementoss based on Sandroba's read, ET's read, my case, da0ud's case. There are votes there, he can be mislynched, so I'd be going for it. I do not know if da0ud is dangerous as town. Scum probably don't either. So I don't draw the same read off of that. And again, no, I'm not scum. I am pushing mementoss because he's scum this game, not to shoot for a mislynch. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 18 2012 03:15 Mementoss wrote: Austin, do you realize there is a great chance there is more than one scum in this game? Ausin, do you realize that in in 3 days you have made 3 separate cases on me? Some of the points say that I don't scum hunt. yet you yourself are not scum hunting, you are putting 3 cases on me, you never hunted for scum outside my filter. You know what takes away from scum hunting? Defending yourself every active day. I guess when I get home I will not be getting into analysis I will be taking all day reading your wall of text and the rest of the day trying to actually reply to it. Austin do everyone a favour and make a case on someone else. Unless your tunnelling me so hard, that you actually think I am both (assuming 2 left) remaining scum members? How is what your doing town? also I can see a huge bold point at the bottom that I can answer right now. Getting people off of what I think is a mislynch/ creating discussion, is a pretty good asset to town imo. austin da0d? I think you're one of our probably two remaining scum players. You're the person I'm most sure of, so you're the person I'm going to get lynched. If you look at my games, when I have a strong scumread, I tunnel that read. Right now, we're making lists. Scummiest to towniest. There's wiggle room there. There's room for people to drop you a few spots, bump me up a few spots, this lynch is much more malleable than normal. I think that works against town. Already we've seen people who have 2 or 3 scumreads and 2 or 3 townreads, and a mush of people in the middle. That mush can be manipulated. That mush shows that people don't have strong reads on some folks. That mush shows that we need a common candidate that we want to lynch. You just happen to be the guy that we should agree on. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 18 2012 03:20 thrawn2112 wrote: austin tell me about your vote sharing at the beginning... just go into detail about exactly why you decided to do it I had a bunch of votes left. I wanted to get the most out of them that I could. Just putting them on a candidate is nice, but I wanted to DO something with them, make them work for town. I figured sharing them is one way to draw more thoughts/reads out, and to see how people use them. So, I want to give some votes away, and I want to do it in a way that gets information. I'll give out votes in exchange for reads. A town read, a scum read. That's a nice balance, and if I give any votes to scum it forces them to call someone townie, which is kind of nice. D1, as part of this weird system, I don't expect scum to call a scumbuddy townie, because they don't know wtf I'm doing. I figure they'll be less likely to try to manipulate what I'm doing, more likely to have to give some real reads for fear I'm up to something. But I still don't want to give votes to scum. So I need some kind of criteria to determine who I want votes from. Best way to not give votes to scum (from the information I had)? Give em to townreads. You seemed townie, and had been relatively vocal on some players, but you were pretty caught up in the people actually in R3 and R4. By giving votes to you, I forced you to look at a broader scope of players, at the whole game, and make some reads on players who were already safe. kush both looked relatively townie to me and...I want to encourage good posting. I much prefer Looney Lynching kush to Liquid City kush. In part, I gave votes to him to encourage the change in posting. Call it promoting a readable thread, call it promoting a good town atmosphere, whatever. kush was also mostly concerned with R3 and R4, so again, I wanted people to look beyond those rounds and de-theme the game, play like it were more normal and everyone was at play. So I both was trying to get two town reads to look at the broader game, to not limit themselves to just R3 and R4 players (no way did all of our scum make it that far). And I wanted to see what your reads would be AND what you'd do with the votes. That felt like a much better use of my votes than dropping them ALL on a single player, when it was lurker vs. maybe-town-sandroba-who-isn't-doing-much. Neither person was super scummy to me, like I said. So I'd rather make my votes work for town in a different way. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 18 2012 03:31 Mementoss wrote: Alright austin, I know you think im scum, do you agree or disagree with my analysis on Hopeless and the Hopeless vs ON situation. I know somewhere in your fitlter you brought up that this is an important matchup but never went any further to discuss it. Mostly agree. I even deleted a post calling everyone out because of your post. I could not understand this morning why everyone acted like this was some new thing that had just been discovered. It was why ET was probably town. I asked Hiro a question about it earlier, because he said something that made me think he didn't udnerstand what had happened last second with hopeless/ON/ET. It felt as if that bit was common knowledge already, and I, of course thinking you're scum, couldn't understand why this was neat that you'd gone and found this information. Either it hadn't been discussed as much as I thought it had, or people need to read the thread harder. Right now, because of the hopeless1der/ON vote, I do not think hopeless1der is scum. I've already said that, and I also noted some bits of his D1 filter that I found townie. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 18 2012 03:37 thrawn2112 wrote: because I don't think that scum austin would defend scum da0 so hard @austin that is a very believable response Mostly because it's real... Un-theme the game. D1 those votes were useful as a tool we don't usually have in a normal game, they're EXTRA good if you put them to work. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 18 2012 03:59 Mementoss wrote: @austin before you go put your list in the thread please. No one has any idea of your opinions basically other than me being scum That is untrue. I have opinions on da0ud and hopeless1der at least that are clear, I think i've been clear with my thoughts on HiroPro as well. I will do some listing, but ... the list is stupid. We need to lynch 1 scum. We win the game when we lynch scum, and we get NOTHING for putting everyone in order of towniest to scummiest. Look at what listing did earlier today, people are changing their lists, getting called out for changing lists, blah blah blah. The lists and how they change are easy pickings for the thread to get full of crap. Thrawn, I need to finish something up quick for work and then I'll post on djodref. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
His D1 stuff on Hopeless1der and ON is kind of wonky. He wants ON to go through R2 against hiro, but Hopeless1der is Djodref's top scumread so he wants Hopeless1der to go through to R4 in the Hopeless/ON bracket. On October 12 2012 11:33 Djodref wrote: @Hopeless You are my top scumread at the moment so I want to go full force against you. As I might no be able to vote on the last round, I don't mind to spend all my votes on you this round. I'll come up with a case against within 10 hours. ON is a scummy lurker but, in my opinion, he is more lurky than scummy. And you are still scummier than him However, his only previous comments on them don't exactly give me the feeling that hopeless is numbah wan scum:+ Show Spoiler + On October 12 2012 00:38 Djodref wrote: Day 1 Round 2 Preview Hopeless/Thrawn It's kind of night and day. Thrawn is active in the thread, gives good contributions and points out what is weird in other players posts. So far I have a slight town read on him. I would expect very good reasons for anyone wanting him to advance. Hopeless on the opposite has almost contributed nothing. He also seems strangely obsessed with people being around at deadline or not. Which is even stranger when you consider that it seems ok for him to unvote everything without warning just before the deadline. I'll develop later on Hopeless, hopefully with some insight from his side, but I would go as far as saying that he is my top scumread at the moment. Prediction: Hopeless advances to the Ro4 3-0 On October 12 2012 00:52 Djodref wrote: @Hopeless You are saying that crazy things happen during the few hours before the deadline yet you have removed your votes at the end of the round one. I find it paradoxal because, in my opinion, the way you can protect ourselves from crazy things to happen is too stick with our votes. Unvoting at last minute is giving more opportunity for MUs to be won be the dark horse. Last round, OriginalName could have reversed some MUs because you gave him room to do it. I can see town and mafia motivations for keeping 10 votes so I'll pass you that. I can see town and mafia motivations for knowing the schedule of the player so I'll pass you that. But I don't like the way you unvoted at all and I don't explain myself the aforementioned paradox. Could you please explain yourself? And last but not least, we don't have any trace of your voting intentions in the recap at the end of the round. It really looks like you don't want to play cards on the table. On October 12 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote: Just a quick post about the people who are going to advance:
It's not scummy in and of itself...but given that the hopeless/ON matchup is something I want to keep at the front of my head, the fact that it doesn't quite seem like hopeless, based on those comments, would be a #1 scumread, gives a bad vibe. However, he drops a case 7 hours later explaining himself a little further. His reaction to an ON/Sandroba finals, and Hopeless being saved + not voting Djodref is...odd? + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2012 12:53 Djodref wrote: Morning everybody ! I'm just waking up and I have a serious hangover right now. Reading the thread has made my head exploding even more... I didn't expect this at all. I was thinking that Hopeless was going to OMGus vote me and that I would end up in the final (that was another reason for me to spend all my votes at this time but I didn't want to say it at that time). @Hopeless Why are you doing this to me ? I'm going to lose my sanity sailing the dark seas of the WIFOM again... Seriously, if you are town, you are just confusing everybody with your "plan" I need more time to process everything. I'll be around for a while and I'll give my thoughts about today's lynch and hopefully more. On October 13 2012 15:09 Djodref wrote: First of all, I'm disappointed that Hopeless did not advance to the final. Right now, I would like him to be lynched, at least for the confusion he is putting me through. Unfortunately, this is not going to happen today... I want him to flip so I definitively know if he is town or scum because it is going to bother me for a while. Last game I've been through a lot of WIFOM shit (thank you Kush by the way) and the result was me tunneling the town MVP for almost all game. I don't want this to happen again and I'll try to look for other players for a while. Hopeless explanations make me seriously doubting on my case against him (plus I've said myself that obvious scum is usually town, it might apply here again) but I cannot see him as town yet. Hopeless, I got my eyes on you <3 ! But whatever. So far that's just weird stuff, not quite scummy. His later explanation is again WEIRD but not SCUMMY. + Show Spoiler + On October 15 2012 12:04 Djodref wrote: Ok, I've just caught up with the thread now. First of all, I would like to address your concerns regarding my votes again Hopeless at round 3, when ON was facing him. I understand that they put me at a bad position right now. At the time when I've have dumped all my votes on him, I was pretty sure he was a mafia player. In my eyes, he was the scummiest but we didn't know yet that he was playing that way on purpose (regardless of his possible alignment). As I explained earlier, I was expecting him to dump all his 9 votes on me in response (in a total mafia OMGUS way) so I believed the chances were very high to have a Hopeless/Djodref final. I thought the mafia would take this final because I don't look so good and it's easier to push a mislynch on a newbie. I was all-in and I wanted Hopeless to be lynched even if it was by risking me to be in the final. So I went out quite satisfied with my move but when I finally emerged from my drunken sleep, I was very surprised to read Hopeless answer to my case. I would have expect anything but him giving me a town read. I've spent a lot of time thinking why a scum Hopeless would do that. Before going totally nuts, I've decided to stop WIFOMing myself and to reserve my judgement for later. I'm at work right now and I don't have time to elaborate so much but I would prefer prplhz to explode with the Hot Potatoe today. I was already suspicious of prplhz before all the Sandroba vote thing but it strongly confirms it. I'm not totally sold on Daoud yet. I've had a newb townie read on him until R3. His defense is very bad but he has been consistent with his read on Sandroba. Also I don't see his last scummate (prplhz?) let him post or vote like he did. Like ... that's my D1 read on him. He started off scummy to me because of...him accusing hiropro and someone else. I wrote about it, I voted him in the R1 matchup, etc. But all this stuff was just kind of odd. When I look his filter over, I notice...a lot of nothing? He talks a lot about hopeless, a lot about da0ud, and when he needs to have a scumread he has one. He'll explain scumreads somewhat, but he doesn't feel all that ENGAGED in scumhunting. Prplhz might be scum for this, hiropro might be scum for this, done. Back to just commenting on things, never really PUSHING. Back to giving advice to da0ud, not PUSHING his scumreads. But he does return to them, give more thoughts on why prplhz is scum, give thoughts on hiro/mementoss not posting enough, discuss how he reads ET and I, blah blah blah. There's almost a dichotomy in his filter. There are big posts with reads, and he spells out more or less why he has them. Then there are some one-liner-y answers to people, questions to people, etc. When I make that comment, I pause, because I feel like that's something that SHOULD be scummy. It should say "This guy isn't scumhunting, he just makes a reads post once in a while, and him making reads is a different style of post than the rest of his posting --> i.e. he's playing the game in some posts, and posting reads in others." But it doesn't. I have a gut read on that as town and I don't really know why. Overall...I'm mildly townie on him. Gut read. I don't know why I dropped the scumread on his first post, exactly. I don't know why I'm not reading what feels like two different djodrefs (the guy who is usually posting and the guy who is giving out reads) as not scummy. But I'm not. I don't know why I'm not reading the votes on hopeless in R3 as not super scummy, because out of all the voting stuff D1, the matchup that most likely dropped scum in our laps is that hopeless/ON matchup (Note: Again, mementoss said he'd put votes on hopeless, but wasn't going to because hopeless was winning). | ||
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1. Mementoss 2-7. Dudes 8. Me Thinking over mementoss's recent posts. Will reread games where I've accused him as town, as well as his scum games. If nobody is really screaming scum, then it feels likely likely that either Djoref or kush is scum for the R3 votes on hopeless1der vs. ON. Again though, mementoss fits the bill there because he says he would drop votes except the matchup's already going the way he wants it to. Not scummy on da0ud today. But he needs to keep contributing. Either there will be helpful stuff there OR he'll slip up. HiroPro replacing out leaves me with him feeling townie early on, and I'm interested in seeing what a fresh pair of eyes does with the thread. Still believe we have night actors. No way are kita/jingle being super sneaky in constantly saying "actionS" and "all actions" if nobody is taking night actions. Stay hidden. | ||
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On October 18 2012 05:54 Hopeless1der wrote: da0ud did the same thing mmt did with the R3 votes, and the way he did it seemed far more scummy to me. For the record I haven't given your most recent case on MMT a proper read and probably wont until I get home from work...so not until 4-6ish hours from now. da0ud's just not on my list of suspects right now. | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:00 kushm4sta wrote: @austin What would they say if there was only 1 night action? "Send your night action?" They are trying to not give it away. Your read on memetoss is suffering from serious confirmation bias. It's not right that you only have 1 real scum read, and then me and djo for some votes r3 d1. In other news, you are looking scummier and scummier: You admit to thinking memetoss is scum in EVERY game you play with him, yet you don't even consider the possibility this game that you are wrong about him. Well you consider it, perhaps, but not enough for you to have other scumreads. I would think as town you would realize your inherent confirmation bias on memetoss and move on to other suspects. @town Does austin usually tunnel this hard? He wasn't doing this in liquid city. @austin why are you even bringing up power roles again? I did not think mementoss was scum in Liquid City. I did not think mementoss was scum in Aperture 2 (Or, to be more specific, I would not have thought so IF I were town that game) In Rockband I thought he was scum. In LVII I didn't, but I think he replaced in after I was dead. In PTP3 I was convinced he was town. So actually, scratch that. I swear there was another game where I thought he was scum but I can't find it going through recent filters. GOOD NEWS EVERYONE! I DON'T think mementoss is scummy in every game I play with him. Just had a string of games (I SWEAR THERE'S ANOTHER ONE BESIDES ROCKBAND) where I think he's scum, and then faked a case on him in Aperture 2. | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:08 kushm4sta wrote: @austin you have several walls of text on memetoss and is the totality of your other scum reads. I heard I have a scumread on mementoss. That's more a general comment to others, and something to keep in mind. | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote: So this was a lie or what? As far as I know, that's actually a lie. I swear there's another game where I accuse him of being scummy, but it turns out when I go look through them that I'm not always scummy on him. | ||
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On August 26 2012 03:16 austinmcc wrote: Almost 100% convinced that Mementoss is town based on one thing he said, and I seem to have good luck when I get that feeling. On August 29 2012 03:20 austinmcc wrote: Jingle, for what it's worth, I'm really not finding mementoss scummy. On August 29 2012 04:19 austinmcc wrote: In fact Dirk, after continuing to look over the last couple pages, I'm finding all the major commenters right now townie? Or at least not scum, I guess we could have some third parties still. Everyone seems to be struggling to pin down exactly what's happened, which feels relatively townie. In most cases, each person is trying to get information to help answer some question (what happened to last night's KP, etc.), and those feel like townie objectives to me as well. Because I'm reading both the questions and the answers sought as townie things, I'm not currently finding mementoss, JH, or you (to a lesser extent, because I still don't have a perfect grasp of the early stuff I missed and I know you were involved there). I actually never find you scummy that game. | ||
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In LVII you replaced in after I was dead. In PTP3 I was explicitly townie on you, always. In Liquid City I found something in your filter weird, but never put together a full read on you either way. | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:18 kushm4sta wrote: it takes me to orgasm 1-3 thrawn djodref austin ( in no order) 4-7 dont give a shit Okay, as long as the answer wasn't "AUSTIN SCUMZZZZZZZ" I'm fine with that. If I lie about always finding mementoss scummy, then I'm lying to weaken my own case, which...I wouldn't do as scum (or as town, my badz). Just happened to misremember, it seems we both do. | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:23 kushm4sta wrote: Last question austin (I don't want to thrawn you to death): How sure are you that memetoss is scum? I would expect you to be pretty close to 100% since you are so single mindedly tunneling him. I am pretty darn sure. I am more sure on him than anyone else in this game. It would make no sense for me to tunnel him if I weren't more sure on him than anyone else. I think if you look at everything I've been writing, I'm focused on mementoss as a scum read, but the entirety of my posts is not "Lynch mementoss." There are other reads there, and if you look at some of the questions that I've asked to some players, you should be able to see where my mind is on other things. Don't think I'm only looking at one player, that actually isn't the case, but the playerbase has been a bit disorganized today in terms of listmaking and listshifting. More so than under circumstances, I feel the need to be very focused in my accusations and scumreads in order to get the person lynched that I believe to be scum. | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:29 kushm4sta wrote: Yeah it makes sense. You are definitely more knowledgeable about his scum meta and town meta than me. But disregarding meta, I think it is a very attractive option for scum to pick a believable tunnel target. It gives them a really safe and easy way to produce content and look town. It gives them an excuse for being apathetic towards voting (well my tunnel target isn't up for lynch so I dont care). That is somewhat true. I have seen scum drop votes on players who aren't really legitimate lynch candidates and walk away, or just halfheartedly push those targets. This is not that, however. Sandroba found mementoss scummy as of his last comment on him. ET did as well. Thrawn notes that if I'm town, then I have good, real points on mementoss. da0ud also wrote a case on mementoss. You can say that's just a "believable tunnel target," but at some point it looks like a "believable tunnel target" because the guy looks scummy. Nor would I characterize my play concerning mementoss as "apathetic." You think I don't care who gets lynched? You think I don't care if mementoss gets lynched? | ||
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(1) Why sandroba N1? (2) Why ET N2? (3) Do those NKs tell you anything about the identities of the remaining mafia? (4) Mementoss or Mementoss or Mementoss? | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:38 kushm4sta wrote: VE I would like your thoughts on the following: (1) Who is scum? @austin: I didn't say you were apathetic. I said tunneling allows scum to be apathetic about OTHER suspects, which you are. bunch of peeps: da0ud scum da0ud scum da0ud scum. austinmcc: here is why I don't think da0ud is scum. kush: On October 17 2012 06:00 kushm4sta wrote: damn austin your posts always convince me. He does seem quite town from those quotes. I guess thinking prpl was town was a coincidence. Right off the top of my head I KNOW that I've posted on other suspects, and other subjects. I know that you know this, because you specifically interacted with me about da0ud and found my posts convincing. I'm unsure yet whether you're trying to discredit me or actually think that I haven't been involved in other discussions, despite...having discussions with me. [spoilers]There may be some subjects about which I am apathetic (listmaking) but, beyond mementoss, I've been pretty clearly concerned with: da0ud why those NKs the R3 ON/hopeless1der matchup[/spoiler] | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:47 Mementoss wrote: holy fuck man are you this wifom every game? THIS is the weakest part of your case BY FAR, actually it adds nothing, it takes away from your case on me, why are you referencing it. Do you not realize im a night 3 kill almost every game? I'm not referencing the NKs to get his thoughts on you. I'm asking him about the NKs to get his thoughts on them, so that I can get thoughts on VE. Those are to help me read him, same way asking ET questions about the NKs was to help me read ET. | ||
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On October 18 2012 06:51 Mementoss wrote: also austin you realized you were set to be lynch before I decided to go back and read aperature I'm pretty sure I'm right up there. That does not concern me, at least not right now. | ||
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On October 18 2012 07:35 Mementoss wrote: Why would I go through the effort of using your meta to figure our your crazy tunneling alignment as scum, if I could just lynch you and get you off my back. I'm not convinced I would have ended up being lynched. For anyone keeping track, townie mementoss makes cases, like the one on djoref. Townie mementoss doesn't do nothing. A mementoss who only starts looking townie after getting called out by multiple players and tunneled by one is less likely to be ACTUAL town than one who starts off looking like townie mementoss from D1. | ||
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On October 18 2012 08:04 Mementoss wrote: Wait, why the fuck haven't you made your list yet? Or ever answered my question about your #2 read? Holding your list is super anti-town Put one down now. You can change it later. Holding it only shows your trying to fuck with the end results. Why is holding one's list anti-town? Mine most likely looks something like this, but I'm not entirely sure and I'd like to see VE in here and get some thoughts from him/on him. You Potentially kush given recent developments? hiro/VE(?) / djoref thrawn/hopeless da0ud me But, seriously, why is holding one's list anti-town? I find it interesting you'd say that. | ||
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On October 18 2012 08:19 Mementoss wrote: 1- easier to sheep others list 2- holds back discussion or questions based on your list 3- mafia can do the math and strategically place players in areas that benefit them You are silly. (1) I don't seem to be sheeping (2) Sure, but I've been open about all my reads (3) If townies hold back lists, mafia CAN'T do the math and strategically vote. Mafia can only do that if people reveal their lists. Not to mention that it's pretty obvious who's at the top of my list, and that I'm trying to get others to share that read. Are you actually worried I'm going to sit back and try to manipulate my votes? Nope. Gonna push to get you lynched. You're overly worried about the math OR not town. Only one person is getting lynched here. As long as town comes to a majority vote, there's NO way to strategically vote as mafia. The top person gets lynched. All mafia can do is mess with their ordering and WIFOM and whatnot, but as long as town places our #1 candidate out of reach of manipulation, ain't nothing going to happen. | ||
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On October 18 2012 14:37 VisceraEyes wrote: See the stuff from yesterday with...mementoss, kush, and I. Turns out I don't find him scummy every game, even though both he and I remember me doing so. Moreover, I disagree with the someone doing anti-town things = dumb. There are plenty of players who have a particular characteristic or two that give others scummy reads on them every game.austinmcc is well aware of his bias toward Mementoss. The way he's tunneling now is indicative of an agenda imo. I feel like if he were town, this would factor in more and he'd be less sure of his read on Mementoss. Think about it. If townMementoss is always suspicious to austin, then why would he say "he's not dumb as town"? It seems to me that someone I consistently think does anti-town things as town, I'd think that person is dumb. It just doesn't even make sense - it's like a weak way to buddy up Mementoss early on. And then he goes full on tunnel-mode on 'toss today? On October 18 2012 06:35 austinmcc wrote: VE, when you catch up or do something, I'd like your thoughts on the following: (1) Why sandroba N1? (2) Why ET N2? (3) Do those NKs tell you anything about the identities of the remaining mafia? (4) Mementoss or Mementoss or Mementoss? 1) Because sandroba was very obviously and unquestionably town and is routinely able to decimate scumteams - but take that for what it's worth..the word of someone who replaced into the game late. Sand has a distinct scum meta that he was very obviously not playing this game. Obviously a smart guy like Sandroba is aware of how to subvert his meta, but that doesn't stop him from NOT doing so anytime he rolls scum (to my chagrin in Liar Game...) 2) ET is less obvious, but I'd have to say that for whatever reason, scum either wanted town to believe something that he said before he died, or wanted to make town believe something about ET that he couldn't protest because he's dead. ET isn't really known for his ability to nail scum, but he's no slouch. It could be for any number of reasons. 3) Obviously they tell me that there's someone who's played with Sandroba - or is aware enough of his reputation to know what to do with a townSandroba. They also tell me that at least one remaining scum member (possible the one in charge, probably the one I was just talking about) likes to play games with town. It tells me that there's someone relatively experienced on the scumteam. 4) I agree with others' assessment of his play - that his early contributions were solid enough, that he dropped of in activity (corroborated, I confirmed him in Liquid City and he didn't do shit) but came back looking just as townie if not more so (imo). I hope that's been helpful brudda. Now swing. (3) is sort of what I was really looking for, and what I was trying to get from ET. I didn't think much of this playerbase had played with sandroba, and so I was concerned that a guy who made it to R4 and wasn't particularly active or explanatory about why he wanted certain players lynched after ON's flip was the first NK. It made me think that either someone had played with him before, or someone actually went and reread a bunch of games. This quote has been stuck in my head - On October 13 2012 15:09 Djodref wrote: because that's the only time I remember anyone saying they did the legwork and looked at Sandroba's past games. If Hiro/VE isn't scum, that statement + the sandroba NK cause me to lean scummier on Djoref (Hiro/VE have played with sandroba, so someone re-reading past games wouldn't be necessary if they're scum).Sandroba Sandroba is also a lurker but he looks scummy enough in my eyes to deserve the lynch. I'm not familiar with his meta but I've been skimming through his filter in the C9++ game and I must say that it looks like night and day when you compare it to his actual filter. | ||
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djodref thrawn djo/kush again for voting Hopeless1der in R3. mementoss's case on djodref IS good. There are a lot of things in Djodref's filter that DO look bad, for some reason my gut pushes me the other way though. With the way VE answered my question about Sandroba's NK, that may be enough to push me over the edge on djo, gotta reread him again and check out the recent stuff. thrawn is almost purely the same set of posts that rubbed mementoss the wrong way, lol. On October 18 2012 03:59 thrawn2112 wrote: But what still doesn't make sense about is that I can't justify to myself ever being willing to share any of my votes... but there was a TON of hesitation about sandroba vs ON so I can see you taking that risk with your votes. Austin I decided to work out what my new list would be, in a hypothetical scenario where I decide you're town. It comes out looking like this: 1 mementoss 2 Djodref 3 hiro 4 da0ud 5 austin 6 kushm4sta 7 hopeless1der 8 thrawn That would be my new list of most scum to most town. Mementoss gets the first place because your case against him is very convincing. I'll have to go through his filter again myself but every time you've made a memtoss case I've found it convincing. Of course that list would have to be adjusted based on what everyone else is doing, because we are in fact listing our top choices for lynch instead of our top scumreads. But anyways what do you think about djodref? I think that if you're town, then the remaining scum are probably within mem, djo, hiro. Da0 is a guy like kush said, I don't have strong convictions about. My gut read tells me that his scumhunting has extremely newbie townie traits but on the other hand I don't want to ignore the reads of ET and sand. On October 18 2012 04:34 thrawn2112 wrote: how does it not make sense? if one of the people who i've been mostly suspicious of (austin) is making a case against you.... do you not see how that would make me change my mind about his cases if I decide he's town? if you want to call me scum go for it but please do me the courtesy of saying more than it "rubs you the wrong way" The whole "I've been finding you scummy, but your case is very convincing, so if I find you townie then mementoss is my number one scumread" bit rubs me the wrong way/doesn't feel good/etc. How convincing my case is shouldn't turn on my alignment. If he just said that mementoss and I feel diametrically opposed, can't both be the same alignment, that would feel alright, but adding this middle step of the case on mementoss is unnecessary. He's sort of giving himself a variety of outs depending on flips, and almost overjustifying doing so, or justifying doing so with an odd statement. I'll look at them more thoroughly and get back with thoughts. VE, if you check djodref's town filter from newbie XXVIII, the smileys = scum thing doesn't quite hold up with him. I know you noted it was the weakest part, but dude likes smilies. + Show Spoiler + Things off the top of my head that make thrawn unlikely to be scum: voted ON R4, used my votes to vote ON R4, was asking me about my read on djoref, which I'm mixed on: [list][*]Actually wants my read on djoref (town)[*]Wants to know what I think of djoref, whether I'm a threat, in order to take sides on the mementoss/austin thing if that's what the lynch today comes down to(scummy, if djoref scum) | ||
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On October 18 2012 22:37 thrawn2112 wrote: Austin what are your thoughts about the possibility of a mementoss/hiro scumteam? When I look at the final brackets and color in who I am sure of as town, after looking at it those are just the two names that jump out at me. Hiro's D1 felt townie to me. I've specifically mislynched him before for not being more active in PTP3 when I remembered him being active in other games (Bureaucracy mainly). If you read scum QT from aperture, I was talking with him about that, and he said he just hasn't been able to be overly active lately. Based on that, I don't think Hiro was scum this game. I'm reworking those thoughts, but I don't think I'm currently scummy on VE either. For a mementoss/x scumteam, ack. I'm probably leaning mementoss/djo. mementoss can bus djo because he can actually make a good case on djo, knows where djo has slipped up and looked scummy. Hit those points, look like town mementoss, filp scum djo, probably get me off his back and then survive til lategame? I think that's pushing it, but there's still a big part of me that's absolutely sure djo or kush is scum because of those R3 votes on hopeless. We know ON was safe in R3 until the last moment. We know that scum couldn't/didn't save ON in R4. Simplest explanation for that is that scum expended a lot of votes in R3 trying to save ON there, and were just out of gas in R4, didn't have the votes to save him. | ||
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On October 18 2012 22:45 thrawn2112 wrote: wait you think mementoss is town now? did I miss something? I'm trying to figure this out. | ||
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On October 18 2012 22:37 thrawn2112 wrote: I'm kind of confused about this here. These are two names that jump out at you?Austin what are your thoughts about the possibility of a mementoss/hiro scumteam? When I look at the final brackets and color in who I am sure of as town, after looking at it those are just the two names that jump out at me. There are legitimate reasons you could connect them. VE defends mementoss hard when popping into thread VE likes mementoss's case on djoref And probably other things you could find if you went deeper, that's just the last couple pages. But you're proposing them as a scumteam because they jump out at you? What exactly does that mean? | ||
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On October 19 2012 00:10 thrawn2112 wrote: Does everyone agree? On October 18 2012 22:47 austinmcc wrote: there's still a big part of me that's absolutely sure djo or kush is scum because of those R3 votes on hopeless. We know ON was safe in R3 until the last moment. We know that scum couldn't/didn't save ON in R4. Simplest explanation for that is that scum expended a lot of votes in R3 trying to save ON there, and were just out of gas in R4, didn't have the votes to save him. Where you talk about kush "being dumber than what I expect from him," I phrase it differently in my head but have similar thoughts. D3 he's...reverted. He finds my posts on da0ud convincing, repeats my argument later and seems to have adopted it, but then accuses me of doing nothing but mementoss. I didn't find it dumb, but it felt like kush was starting to become the ... more jumpy and frantic kush from Liquid City whose votes were swapping all over the place for weird reasons on D1. I will reread him. I'm still looking mementoss over this game and some other games. If I stop pushing him as scum, then I'm in favor of a djo or kush lynch, but preferring djo right at this point. I'll give it more thought, and see what reading kush pulls up, but djo noting that he'd gone and read at least one town sandroba games currently puts him ahead of kush in my mind, because I really think that explains the N1 kill better. | ||
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United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 00:32 thrawn2112 wrote: I don't know if there's any merit in the sandroba nk speculation with regards to people who are aware of his ability being likely scum... his veteran status was something that was brought up over and over again during D1 so everyone in the gamewould be aware of it. The fact that he moved on to R4 and played N1 in about the same way as D1 (tossing out SOME reads, and giving a small amount of explanation about 1-2), doesn't lead me to the conclusion that people who just know he's a vet or have been told he can play well would drop him N1. Under a different gamestate, I'd have no problem thinking he was killed purely on vet status. But with how people seemed to be reacting to his play THIS game, I find the N1 kill less likely based on vet status alone. | ||
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If mementoss were scum here, I would expect a different allocation of attention. That's somewhat tempered by the way the lynch worked on D2, not like he can do much to influence the lynch when he doesn't know when it's going to happen, but I'm alright with townmementoss for now. Current thought process is then something like: 1. Djodref 2. kush? 3. thrawn? 4. 5. 6. 7. da0ud 8. austinmcc middle is some combination of VE/mementoss/hopeless1der. Don't feel any of them are town as strongly as I do da0ud. Don't like any for scum over the top 3 right now. Hopeless1der probably in the 6 slot, mementoss 4 and VE 5? Will lock down the spots with ?s after more reading. | ||
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On October 19 2012 01:47 thrawn2112 wrote: austin why is djo #1? I get that you are wanting to lynch one of the people who voted for hopeless in hopeless vs ON, but why djo over kush? is it mostly because of that nk speculation? I want to lynch one of those two. There were scummy things in Djo's filter (Hiro and I were concerned with part of his opening post, + more recent stuff), but for some reason I had a gut feeling he was town. As in, there were more scummy things in Djo's filter than kush's filter, as I read them, but I just wasn't reading Djo as scum despite the scummy bits. The NK stuff is enough, however, to push me over the top on Djo and not go with gut here. So it's ... not MOST of the reason Djo is scummy, but it's this trigger that moves me from "done some scummy stuff but town" to "okay, maybe scummy stuff = scum when you factor in this other thing." Again, looking at kush's play this game a little closer, and will check to see whether he's so bus-happy (actually, he and someone "bussed" more or less on the next-to-last day of GSL Open 2 iirc). I know his response to my offering votes was not as robust as yours, and was a little silly/dumb, but apart from that I haven't been watching him closely. | ||
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On October 19 2012 02:03 Mementoss wrote: This is a pretty big contradiction from austin. Saying what I said about the hopeless situation was common knowledge, yet austin himself didn't seem to think that way earlier when he says "its pretty obvious scum let ON make the finals". No thats not what I said happened. I said the opposite. Scum was actively trying to NOT let ON make the finals and then confirmed town ET ruined their day.' Austin?? Am I reading this wrong? You're not reading it wrong but there are other posts than my question to ET. I pose a question to Hiro at some point, and there are some spots where I'm just looking over the votes, I think at one point just in a spoiler somewhere on an unrelated post? That ET post does stand...perpinducular or something to my other posts on R3/R4 all that jazz, but it's mainly because that question grows out of ET's comment about scum running good interference. That's not the point I'm talking about when I say common knowledge, it was earlier posts and I believe da0ud played around with the votes for the R3 matchup as well at some point in N2 or early D2. I can go dredge up these posts in a sec. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On October 14 2012 12:26 austinmcc wrote: The key key KEY matchup from D1 seems to be hopeless1der vs. ON. Can't point that out enough. ON was safe until right at deadline. Possible that scum expended a decent amount of votes in order to make that happen, but were happy to do so because they weren't worried about what happened in finals. Then BOOM. Deadline votes, ON moves on, and scum have already burnt a lot of their influence in R3. On October 14 2012 12:35 austinmcc wrote: Specifically: 18:07 - Djodref puts 6 on hopeless (H6, ON0) 4:27 - Hiro puts 2 on ON (H6, ON2) 4:36 - ET puts 2 on ON (H6, ON4) 4:49 - thrawn puts 1 on ON (H6, ON5) 7:09 - sandroba puts 2 on ON (H6, ON7) 7:10 - sandroba changes vote to 7 on ON (H6, ON12) 9:45 - kush puts 1 on hopeless (H7, ON12) 10:24 - OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT POSTED - SAYS (H7, ON 11) 10:33 - kush changes vote to 6 on hopeless (H12, ON12) 11:00 - ET changes vote to 6 on ON (H12, ON16) 11:00 - DEADLINE (H12, ON 15) Actually the numbers are really weird...kush puts 6 votes on Hopeless when it doesn't change anything? ET puts 6 votes on ON when it doesn't change anything... you guys vote weird. The official vote count is different, which means that under the official votecount, kush first voted hopeless once. He then voted enough to put hopeless through and save ON (ONLY UNDER THE OFFICIAL VOTECOUNT, WHICH SEEMS TO BE WRONG?). iirc he was also asking me in thread if I was gonna outvote him? I need to go find that. If so, shows that he was worried about expending votes and still having ON go through to the finals...(BUT THEN HE VOTED ON LATE TODAY) On October 14 2012 12:36 austinmcc wrote: Maybe there's not a lot there, I dunno. Jeez, only 2 people period vote for Hopeless, and they both dropped 6 votes in doing so. I dunno if it really says anything or not, except that ET very likely town (EVEN THOUGH TECHNICALLY HIS LATER VOTES DIDN'T DO ANYTHING AND THE VOTE COUNT SEEMS TO BE WRONG QQQQQQQQQQ) On October 14 2012 12:46 austinmcc wrote: So djodref on Hopeless, Kush providing the oomph to get Hopeless into the lead, then you sending ON through. Yet when given votes at the end of today, Kush used them on ON. And was set to do so before prplhz came in. Eeeeeenteresting. On October 15 2012 06:22 austinmcc wrote: Hiro, do you think that scum tried to save ON in R3 against Hopeless1der? On October 15 2012 07:54 austinmcc wrote: Sort of. Trying to find voting connections between ON/djodref/da0ud/prplhz + Show Spoiler + R1 prplhz votes 1x da0ud early. djodref beats da0ud by 1 vote. djodref votes 1x prplhz, 1x hopeless1der, 1x ON. kush beats prplhz by 1 vote. In each of those cases, they wasted votes on each other's opponents, not using enough to get their target to move on for 2 more votes. However, 1 minute before deadline: HiroPro voted 2x Kush, so prplhz was set to advance over kush until that point. Hopeless1der unvoted 1x prplhz, 1x ON, 1x Djodref. prplhz was therefore leading by 2 votes until the last moment. The double D lynch ended up the same as it would have been. R2 da0ud votes 1x djodref prplhz votes 1x Hopeless1der djodref votes 1x Hopeless1der ET vs. Djoref ends 4-5 with djoref passing on. Only da0ud spent votes to influence that matchup out of the group I'm watching. R3 djodref votes x6 Hopeless1der prplhz saves votes da0ud saves votes djodref is one of two hopeless1der voters. If we think scum tried to push hopeless1der over ON in R3, djodref and kush are the only people who voted him. kush pushed ON (to an extent, towards the end of the day) in R4. So djodref looks more scummy out of the R3 hopeless1der voters imo. djodref on D1 was set to push prplhz into R2 on R1. Last minute voting changed that. prplhz voted da0ud, djodref's opponent, but not hard enough to push da0ud through. There's nothing in here that really looks like x and y were trying to save eachother/help eachother out. There's a hiro response somewhere and I think a da0ud post or couple on the matchup, but that's what I dug out of my filter for that time period. | ||
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But then I look at what he actually did, and ... kush's #1 scum read is da0ud early: On October 11 2012 06:46 kushm4sta wrote: for 6ish hours kush is on da0ud. Then, Yeah daoud vs djodref.. I'm on team djodref meaning I vote for daoud to advance. Daoud's post just seems so awkward. SNIPPED He is my #1 scum read right now and I definitely want him to go through. On October 11 2012 15:59 kushm4sta wrote: I am not reading scum on this guy so I'm glad djodref passed instead. He shares his crazy thoughts too freely. Okay. He was #1 scumread, now townie because of the bits on alien invaders and "miniscum." I don't mind that. Note that R1 ended at 11:00 TL time. This was while da0ud was still scummy for kush, BEFORE the change of heart. But he gets on sandroba's case during R2 for voting da0ud late. On October 12 2012 02:54 kushm4sta wrote: @ET it's interesting that you say that Sandroba has a scummy scum-meta. Because my current read on him was that he was acting almost too scummy to be scum. He tries to push doaud through with no explanation by putting 2 extra votes on him. Also he does it without even saying he's going to do it. When we ask him why, all he has to say is: So a hunch with no reasoning is enough to override the majority's vote? On October 12 2012 03:08 kushm4sta wrote: ET that still has 0 explanation for why he thought daoud was scummy enough to double vote him near deadline. I get that kush's read has changed at this point, but Sandroba is "too scummy to be scum" for trying to push da0ud through to R2. When da0ud was still kush's #1 scumread. You don't get upset that someone tries to push your #1 scumread through to another round. There's weird thing #1 just from D1 Weird thing #2 is that he's got some ON comments, similar to what I didn't like from mementoss On October 12 2012 04:41 kushm4sta wrote: ON's got one post. This post - + Show Spoiler +Originalname vs Hiropro Original: I'm not going to vote someone because they are busy. Yes I buy his panic votes. I think his story about the PM is very believable. He only has 1 post of merit but I think the post is fine. He's definitely not afraid to share his thoughts. He brings up a good point about djodref's drunk post. Did drunkenness cause the vote or did it just cause him to not tell us about it? It bothered me at the time but I forgot about it. But anyway I don't think his 1 post looks scum. Hiropro: Not omgus but my suspicion of him comes from his suspicion of me. It's the only thing that's in his filter basically. He called my argument about the daoud's bye disadvantage a "contradiction" and he has not sufficiently explained how so. And he wants me so bad that he added another vote to put me over the edge at the last second? His arguments don't back up that kind of suspicion IMO. On October 11 2012 11:30 OriginalName wrote: Thoughts on tommorrows matchups as they stand: Post 1 in a (Probable) series. Echelon vs Djo -I placeholdered on Djo as I was well aware i was skirting the deadline and at this point i had no say in affecting things as they were. After going through thread i have thoughts on both: Echelon: Truthfully speaking, started out fine even with that completely irrelievent "Scumslip" (Once again reiterating- it's not a slip) however after those nice starting posts he moves towards really low content uninteresting posts that are completely meaningless "IM HELPING TOWN" posts that show hes posting but adds nothing to discussion vote counts. This on the other hand REALLY irks me, he says he reacts strongly to accusations and then right after we decided he wasnt as worth it and moved on he completely drops off the map again. THAT friends unlike my complete absence is scumlurk, throwing of heat and then ignoring us. Djo: I'm going to wait abit to call out lurking due to timezones. However he did vote me for megalurk then disappear. One thing that bothers me this time around is believe it or not, that vote on Mementoss. He uses the excuse that he was drunk to cover it up rather than assert his position harder and back it up. It was by his words an accident, at the very least he could push it and get more reactions, there is nothing wrong in an incorrect push as it always reveals something. It's a post on a single matchup. I don't see many shared thoughts there AT ALL. ET started out fine, but then moved to low content posts, and then finds that ET was scummy because ET responded sharply to scumreads on himself and then was less active. As to ON's thoughts on djo...he's going to wait to call out lurking, and he's bothered by a drunk vote on mementoss. Not exactly a bunch of thoughts. Covers only one matchup, seems to dislike both players in it? Doesn't...DO anything. kush's comments on that post, that it was "1 post of merit", "fine", and that ON is "definitely not afraid to share his thoughts" are NOT what I get from ON's post. kush continues to be concerned with ON and cases on ON On October 12 2012 05:34 kushm4sta wrote: Where is this strong case on ON? I can't find it. On October 12 2012 08:07 kushm4sta wrote: KUSH TALKS ABOUT DJO AND ET HERE, THEN FINISHES HIS ET THOUGHTS WITH After ON calls him out for low content and scumlurking: So this is that strong ON case sandroba was referring to? I'm not seeing any arguments that he is scum except for a vague reference to "disruption." There's a lot of anger here and a lot of omgus. On October 12 2012 10:49 kushm4sta wrote: (WHAT IS THIS LAST POST? IT'S NOT ULTRA-SLIPPY BUT...KUSH DOESN'T THINK ON MEANT TO VOTE DJO THAT DAY? HOW DOES KUSH KNOOOOOOOOOOOOW?)ah wtf I didn't see originals votes there for djodref.. i dont think he even meant them to be used today kush was involved in the modkill/replacement discussion, wondering what would happen to ON. Again, heavy concern with ON and specific concern as to whether he would be replaced or modkilled. then lots of hopeless/ON chatter. He's legit concerned about hopless1der's "i was scummy to catch scum" bit, which is fine, but he continues to be worried about votes on ON. + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2012 09:46 kushm4sta wrote: those aren't my final votes. Also omg it's later than i realized. Why the fuck are so many people voting for ON??? On October 13 2012 09:48 kushm4sta wrote: Why is ET voting for ON when he himself pointed out: On October 13 2012 09:51 kushm4sta wrote: Thrawn why are you voting for ON? Purely hypothetically, non-inflammatorally, etc, ON is probably going to get replaced or modkilled. Why would you policy lynch that??? On October 13 2012 09:52 kushm4sta wrote: I get that you are still null on him. You don't have to spend all your votes on him but ON makes no sense to lynch IMO. On October 13 2012 09:54 kushm4sta wrote: hiro has 2 votes on ON et has 2 votes on ON sandroba has 7!!! votes on ON @thrawn ah ok i see you changed your vote. Then he's really worried about me vote-bombing ON if he tries to vote hopeless. R2 I threatened to push djodref through over ET, when kush wanted ET through. So he's got reason to check...but again, there's just so much concern with ON. His reaction to ET pushing ON through was "not cool," and then when ET's votes were maybe not going to count, we got On October 13 2012 11:11 kushm4sta wrote: haha look at vote thread you got owned et This was one of my townreads D1...but this is a LOT of concern with ON. A lot more concern over ON than with other players. He has an early vote on Sand R4, but then changes to ON and puts the three votes I gave him on ON. Thread sentiment was shifting somewhat at that point, sandroba was starting to be vocal in defending himself whereas ON was still absent. Gonna keep going, but I do not like his D1. His D1 reads very scummy in light on ON's flip. | ||
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On October 16 2012 04:06 kushm4sta wrote: prpl you do realize giving it to ET is a scum claim right? No town would do this. He's just trying to kill the stongest town. So we know that prpl is scum. *oes anyone disagree that prpl is scum at this point?** Spends all D2 thinking prplhz/da0ud scum. Spends N2 thinking da0ud scum, and at first mementoss is scum after I make a cast on mementoss and he makes a case on me. Then decides mementoss is town. Ends N2 with On October 17 2012 07:58 kushm4sta wrote: If I die: first let me day I should not die. Either Austin or ET should die and if they don't something is very wrong. I read straight through about half the thread and I feel confident in my current scumreads. THRAWN Read this scum's filter. He is like one of those annoying little dogs that nips at people's heels. He has very little content of his own. Mostly what he does is wait for someone to say something kind of off then go Omg why you say that? DJODREF His scumstrat= make big posts, people will be impressed and think you are town. Look past the length and you will see his scumminess. ET That last minute ON vote ro4, do not trust that shit. Remember he is the one who brought it to everyone's attention originally. Scum may have known ON was getting modkilled and decided to take the townie points from leading the lynch instead. Also note how he had no points to spend either way ro2. He used more votes than necessary ro4 so he would not have to ve accountable for his vote ro2. His activity has been real low except for when attacked. Then he turns super sayain. He never even commented on sandroba until AFTER the lynch during the ro2. Kush out. ET or I should die. But ET is one of kush's top 3 scumreads. Except that ET was "the strongest town" earlier in D2, for the same reasons kush says shouldn't be trusted now. This. This is the stuff that felt like kush regressing to me. This is kush's scumreads just jumping around all over the place, often in a contradictory manner. follow kush's da0ud read throughout the game, or the djodref one...gah. | ||
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On October 19 2012 04:17 thrawn2112 wrote: austin I think some of the formatting is messed up in the quotes beneath the "kush continues to be concerned with ON and cases on ON" line No, it's just poor job by me. I wanted to snip out part of that post, but then the context was lost. That's me trying to give the context of the quote in the quote in place of what I cut, without making it very apparent. | ||
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On October 19 2012 04:50 thrawn2112 wrote: so this means you have a really strong town read on him right? I have a town read on him, but mostly he's the freshest set of eyes this game has. I've had luck when I just go back and look at a game after being a little lurky/absent, and he's valuable right now to my thought process as someone who wasn't around D1. | ||
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Since I'm asking, I'll note that I like kush over djo at the moment. That D1 really concerns me, and while I can't untangle the mess of connections and cases and suspicions that is thrawn/kush/djo right now, I'm thinking that if mementoss isn't scum then we've got 2 in that bunch. But thrawn is a side matter for me right now, and I'm more focused on djo/kush. | ||
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On October 19 2012 04:54 thrawn2112 wrote: @kush idk i'm watching dexter episodes when i want to be sleeping. Concerning austin, I've had suspicions of him for a lot of the game and some stuff VE said about him was pretty convincing. Currently I think his djo vote is pretty silly... the nk stuff incriminating djo as scum just makes no sense at all has has no basis on what's actually happened in the thread and it feels like a "made up" case or whatever you want to call it. Also he's made this case against you but it doesn't really look like a case.. there is no real conclusion or anything and I don't get what he's trying to say... I'm guessing that he thinks you're scum.. but it feels like he kinda left the question hanging. also there's the D1 vote sharing. his justifications for doing it were good, but I just don't see how he could have arrived at the point to do it in the first place. He only spent 1 vote until the finals, then used 3 out of his 9 votes for a candidate which, at the time he voted, needed a shit ton of votes to get lynched. Looks like hiding. It just doesn't seem like something a town player would do. the whole deal does strikes me as "guys i'm not gonna take a stance on anything, here i'm gonna let you use my votes because i'm so town" It doesn't look like a case, but it's things I don't like about kush's filter. I've changed my list in the voting thread to swap those 2. See post above, or just know that I'm still convinced that we've got 1-2 scum in our R3 hopeless voters. Actually re-reading kush's D1 has changed my mind about who it is. I'm not sure what this does to djo for me, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for both of them to be scum and to have gone hard at saving ON in R3. Will figure out that bit later. | ||
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On October 19 2012 05:09 kushm4sta wrote: The supposition that either djo or me has to be scum: this is simply ridiculous. And the fact that you are holding onto it like gospel makes no sense. If you notice anyone else voting hopeless1der in R3, do let me know. | ||
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On October 19 2012 05:17 thrawn2112 wrote: eh I guess, that's the weakest part of the case. also none of that is confirmed unlike that logic case I made against you in our newbie, so you know how hesitant i'd be about following through on it. "hopeless looked weird enough to get votes from town" is a true statement..... but it was the most contested MU and it's the only MU where we have a confirmed scum and a confirmed town so I don't just want to.... ignore it We have a confirmed scum. No guarantee hopeless1der is townie, but he does come out of that matchup looking good. | ||
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If you were obsing a game, and you saw someone make posts like this: On October 17 2012 09:16 austinmcc wrote: Other options include worries about a medic, although apparently I don't look super duper town, blue-sniping on ET. On October 17 2012 10:52 austinmcc wrote: One reason I'm thinking power roles of some sort exist: night actionS. When I have received all night actionS night actionS. If they're ALL submitted early. We have not seen rb claims. We have not seen medic protects. However, we've only seen 1 KP per night, and the N1 posts make pretty clear that there were multiple actions to be received. Moreover, Sandroba made it to R4 in D1. That means he didn't look uber-town. Yet scum chose to kill him. Why? He's been known to be a dangerous scumhunter. If scum killing him was the only action, I would expect it to happen EARLY. He was killed because they were afraid to let him live, and killing him early in the night would be better than giving him time to get some night thoughts out. So the fact that night didn't end almost immediately means that scum killing sandroba was probably not the only action that needed to come in. On October 18 2012 05:50 austinmcc wrote: Still believe we have night actors. No way are kita/jingle being super sneaky in constantly saying "actionS" and "all actions" if nobody is taking night actions. Stay hidden. plus lots of concern over who got NKed and why they got NKed. What is one conclusion you might come to about that person? | ||
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On October 19 2012 05:36 thrawn2112 wrote: if I see someone constantly building cases off of night kills and useless arguments concerning role speculation? that they're scum for having so many thoughts about that shit Wrong conclusion. | ||
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On October 19 2012 05:36 thrawn2112 wrote: if I see someone constantly building cases off of night kills and useless arguments concerning role speculation? that they're scum for having so many thoughts about that shit I'm not speculating about roles. Roles exist. I'm blue. | ||
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On October 19 2012 05:39 kushm4sta wrote: @austin if you are going to claim, then claim. I don't want to claim the particular role, because reasons. I'm also probably being dumb about this, but oh well. That still seems to be my MO concerning blue roles. | ||
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On October 19 2012 05:42 thrawn2112 wrote: are the reasons that you don't want to be counterclaimed? No. That's not what I'm worried about. | ||
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On October 19 2012 05:45 thrawn2112 wrote: austin, what would be your response to someone claiming blue if you previously suspected them of being scum? It depends on the person? That's not a blanket thing. Sometimes I believe claims, sometimes I don't. If it's a claim likely to get counterclaimed, or that can be disproven by a counterclaim, I'll almost always believe it (single boxer setups for GSL Opens, Liquid City's "these roles all exist" bit). That's not really a question I can give an answer to that you want, unless it's just rhetorical and you're saying you don't buy it at all and it doesn't change your mind. | ||
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On October 19 2012 05:51 thrawn2112 wrote: It is somewhat rhetorical... trying to let you, if you're town, see the position I'm currently in Sure, you can make of it what you will. But I need to start ramping things up if people are still on me, especially given that so many people have dropped votes (with me towards the top) and haven't been around for a good while. | ||
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On October 19 2012 06:08 thrawn2112 wrote: well I'm awaiting further developments.. I assume eventually he will actually claim. This is the first time I've seen someone just claim blue so I dunno what to think about it If I have to I'll fully claim. I think this is probably a bad way to go about doing this, but oh well. It's done now. Driving home, back available in 20 or so. Still think today's lynch should be kush or djo, still leaning kush. | ||
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also there's the D1 vote sharing. his justifications for doing it were good, but I just don't see how he could have arrived at the point to do it in the first place. He only spent 1 vote until the finals, then used 3 out of his 9 votes for a candidate which, at the time he voted, needed a shit ton of votes to get lynched. Looks like hiding. It just doesn't seem like something a town player would do. the whole deal does strikes me as "guys i'm not gonna take a stance on anything, here i'm gonna let you use my votes because i'm so town" You think I just made those justifications up? If you don't, you think that I had those justifications as scum, "I'm gonna let you use my votes because I'm so town." You think I'd trade a scum buddy, who was going to be replaced by scumVE, for some town cred? Also, keep that last bit of your quote in mind if I have to full claim. | ||
austinmcc
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Who should pass the potato at the start of D2? On October 14 2012 11:48 kushm4sta wrote: prp and djodref, I choose you! (Despite those votes D1) On October 14 2012 12:24 kushm4sta wrote: @djodref sorry I just pulled you out of my ass pretty much from looking at the votes. You gave up all your votes to try to push 1der through. memetoss and prpl are top scumpicks ATM. Austin's case against memetoss makes good points. Sure he bussed ON but the bus looks pretty scummy. It is perfectly reasonable to believe that at least one scum would bus their afk teammate. Sry djodref, I pulled you out of my ass because you voted for the guy that was up against confirmed scum. No mention of why putting all your votes on the guy going up against confirmed scum is no biggie, or not suspicious at all. On October 17 2012 06:42 kushm4sta wrote: Massive time dump thread read progress note: Memetoss and hiropro and looking really town. Note: do not be fooled into thinking djodref is town from his long ass post. A lot of newbie scums do this as something safe and easy they can do to make them look town. He's being nice, too nice. It's as if thrawn pointed the cheeriness of his meta d1 and since then he has gone into super happy friendly mode. note to self, don't be fooled into thinking djodref town (Implies djodref scum?) On October 17 2012 07:58 kushm4sta wrote: Yup. Long posts = scum. That's it.If I die: first let me day I should not die. Either Austin or ET should die and if they don't something is very wrong. I read straight through about half the thread and I feel confident in my current scumreads. DJODREF His scumstrat= make big posts, people will be impressed and think you are town. Look past the length and you will see his scumminess. Constantly has djo as scum. djo is #2 on his list at the start of the day, stays #2, becomes one of his top 3, kush promises case on djo. On October 17 2012 21:44 kushm4sta wrote: guys real cases against thrawn and djo and a closer look at Austin is coming when I get home. Any case? Nope. He's now townie for the reasons he was scummy + defense of mementoss's case + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2012 09:30 kushm4sta wrote: I change my mind about djodref. I don't think scum djo would be as comfortable writing long paragraphs like he does just sharing his thoughts. He has constructed, formatted cases, but he also has posts in which he freely shares of this thoughts. He seems really comfortable and at ease in the thread. Some examples: + Show Spoiler + On October 17 2012 09:42 Djodref wrote: Regarding today's mechanics, I think we should run our majority lynch in parallel. It's interesting to get the list so people should put them in the voting thread regardless of who is going to be lynched today (according to the lists). With the parallel majority lynch (running until smthing like deadline - 1H), we decide what is the real target of the lynch today and we modify the lists in order to get the right guy lynched. I'm betting right now that it's going to be the same guy anyway. I propose a majority vote for this idea ! I'm in ! ##Vote Hopeless I would expect first time djo to think way more about his posts and be more reserved. Mementoss I don't like your case on djo. 1 I think it's a mistake to read too much into the votes d1. It's very possible no scum had votes on sandroba, or they did and then took them off when they saw the tide changing, like thrawn. 2 This is understandable from a town perspective. 3 same as 2 4 Perhaps there are inconsistencies in his idea, but I expect that from newb town. 5 The urge to sheep was strong that day lol. It seemed like a really sure thing and prpl wasn't helping with threatening to give it to ET. 6 His smiley face usage is consistent with his last game. He also called himself noob and bad many times. 7 Probably comes from his lack of confidence? It seems like he is very happy when people agree with him though. 8 WIFOM. He COULD be scum from his voting record. But look at the tone and the ease of his posts. ##DEFENSE DJODREF But nope, lowers djo because - On October 19 2012 07:01 kushm4sta wrote: I lowered djo solely because I want to lynch austin, so I want to increase his lead. Except he's spent half of today with djo at the top of his list, and half with djo at the bottom + defending a case against him and finding him "the cutest thing ever." On October 19 2012 05:07 kushm4sta wrote: @djodref I love you dude you make me smile every time I read one of your posts. That's not just buddying to you, that's the truth. You are literally the cutest thing ever. Are all french people like you? Also look at hiro d1, before he went afk. Just read through his filter, it looks town. His lurkiness, that was not deliberate. We know that now because he asked for a replacement. Reconsider austin. Vote him higher please. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:06 kushm4sta wrote: I thought djo was scum then I changed my mind once I read through his filter and thought about it more. On October 19 2012 07:01 kushm4sta wrote: I lowered djo solely because I want to lynch austin, so I want to increase his lead. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:09 kushm4sta wrote: Austin's play reeks of desperation. Rawr, I so stinky. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:11 kushm4sta wrote: Austin claim your fake role. There's only an hour left. I don't see why you are waiting so long. Because it's information I don't want mafia to have if I don't HAVE to give it up. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:14 kushm4sta wrote: If you wait until the last second that puts a lot of pressure on people to decide quick. We won't even be able to make a smart decision about your claim You may not be able to make a smart decision about my claim regardless. Also how is da0ud leading... | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
the whole deal does strikes me as "guys i'm not gonna take a stance on anything, here i'm gonna let you use my votes because i'm so town" Frankly I'm talking to one person that I think might be town, so it's not like there's really boatloads of reasons to claim. I'm not sure whether you can swing the lynch or not, based on hopeless's counts. And again, this is information I'd rather not be out in public if it doesn't have to be, today. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:30 thrawn2112 wrote: sorry austin i'm too stupid to figure out what you';re trying to suggest but i'm still thinking about it It'll somewhat make sense. You still may not believe it, but there are reasons I'm being stupidly cryptic here. | ||
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On October 19 2012 07:35 Djodref wrote: I dont want daoud to get lynched If I get room to swap he and I so I've got one more vote and he has one less, I will. If that means saving him and getting the lynch on kush. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:38 Djodref wrote: sorry I've just woke up I don't have time to catch up everything We don't quite know who's leading the votes, I think me with da0ud second, or maybe him first and me second. Kush potentially third. I'm off mementoss at this point, looking at you and kush for your R3 D1 votes. Pushing kush. His filter mentions ON all over the place in some weird ways, his reads have been all over the place on you and da0ud, blah blah blah. Also, i'm blue. That's why I was talking about night actions, and talked about blue-sniping and maybe scum trying to work around a medic. I have not revealed what role, do not want to if do not have to. The end, more or less. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:44 thrawn2112 wrote: austin you're making it so that there's no chance anyone would be able to counter claim you and then you could just lay off afterwards saying you don't want to reveal your role as an excuse It's not something that's counter-claimable. It's not even like we know the counts on anything so even if I saw "I'm a DT/medic combo" someone else can claim that and we don't KNOW we don't have 2 of those. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:45 Djodref wrote: Do you have some better breadcrumb or some thing like this ? y u no give the role ? If there's a chance I don't get lynched, my role is information I do not want mafia to have. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:47 thrawn2112 wrote: austin you aren't making this easy I'm not sitting here trying to make it easy. I'm trying to salvage what I can out of this. If people are asleep or disinterested or just not going to check the thread for 12 hours or whatever, then there's not BOATLOADS of stuff I can do. Heck, da0ud is voting me so that he doesn't get lynched, because I was in 2nd place. Like...I've got votes for that reason. I've got votes placed before any of today happened. I don't know if those people come back and see anything and change their minds or not. | ||
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On October 19 2012 07:47 thrawn2112 wrote: austin you aren't making this easy Also, I guess...why would I make this difficult as scum? Do all these death throes about a claim seem townie or scummy? If I'm just gonna fakeclaim something, why not do it? It's pretty clear there's no value in not claiming my exact role, yet I'm trying to preserve that as long as possible. Does that feel townie or scummy to you? You've found my reasons for selling off votes D1 convincing, but I could still be scum. You thought my case on mementoss was convincing, but I was probably still scum. It's not as if I'm sitting here doing nothing, it's not as if I haven't given out my reasoning. I'm just holding onto the last thing I've got left if I don't have to put it in thread. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:51 thrawn2112 wrote: austin i dont see why you cant claim. if you're blue then mafia will believe your blue claim so they're gonna nk you anyways no matter what you claim On October 19 2012 07:51 kushm4sta wrote: What do you have to lose by claiming right now?? This will be apparent. Again, you guys may believe me or not, but there are reasons why this behavior makes sense. There are roles for which this behavior makes sense, themed or un-themed. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:53 Hopeless1der wrote: If you get lynched, would we require any explanation to get your information, or will the flip speak for itself? The flip would speak for itself. You'd immediately know why I'm doing this. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:53 thrawn2112 wrote: jesus austin that's got to be some crazy role... No. It's not. It's not themed, it's not anything. I'm a veteran. I play dumb to protect blue claims if I can save townies with them, see GSL Mini 2 for part of the day. Giving away votes to be like "look at me I'm so super town" = I'm super town = I get shot and save a hit. Not wanting to reveal that because my role is passive, all that I can do is take a shot. Revealing means I won't get NKed, and I outed that we have blues for nothing. I just wish people had been here. | ||
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On October 19 2012 07:56 kushm4sta wrote: IF you are a vetern then why your insistence on night actionS... you have no night actions Because I know we have blues. That whole actionS thing is arguing that blues exist. Was trying to make scum snipe me, because I was talking about actions and blues. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:57 Mementoss wrote: austin didn't you claim medic first no. I said one reason ET got shot was maybe scum shooting around medics. I was trying to make myself look blue by talking about night actions, medic save possibilities, etc. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:57 thrawn2112 wrote: Giving away votes to be like "look at me I'm so super town" = I'm super town = I get shot and save a hit. That was your plan for vote sharing? for real? I also thought it was a good idea for realsies. I'll stand by that one post-game. Mafia wouldn't give up votes, and I wanted to do something with mine. Felt like a better use than just voting. I actually believe that. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 19 2012 07:59 kushm4sta wrote: This claim means NOTHING... no evidence of blue roles... no way to prove it.. It is the easiest fake claim in the world. I didn't say you had to believe it. I said it would explain things. | ||
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Not sure why we didn't lynch both hopeless1der voters from D1. Not like I can complain about that, I didn't push it hard enough, but ... ugh. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Sorry for being so wonky about my role, I still haven't gotten out of getting caught up in being blue and need to work on that. I still don't have a great handle on wtf happened D3, between some of the votes I got and why nobody changed votes. And yes, big thanks to the hosts. The format felt fun, and things ran smoothly. Very enjoyable game setup. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 22 2012 14:14 syllogism wrote: Some of you ought to get better at recognizing when your reads aren't that strong and you should be willing to re-evaluate and listen to others. Probably wouldn't have saved you in this game, but would have made the game less obnoxious to read and perhaps it would have been more difficult for mafia to hide. Thanks for this thought. So, I got 45 votes D3. 1 from me 1 from hopeless 8 from thrawn, who didn't actually want to lynch me 7 from djodref, who was mafia 8 from kush, who was town but who I was pushing (this one I understand slightly more) 8 from VE, who was mafia 5 from mementoss, who thought I was town 7 from da0ud, because On October 18 2012 23:37 da0ud wrote: although he ended up with the least overall votesI want to push Austin number two currently because he is the one that has the most chances of being lynched instead of me, and I know I should not be killed. That is 20 votes from people who don't think I'm scum 15 votes from scum 8 votes from town that I can understand I got more than twice as many votes from people who DIDN'T think I was scum than people who DID.................................................................................................(I cannot put enough .s here to express my confusion) Kush, as a side note, because I actually didn't realize LC had ended and didn't say anything post game there, I found your posting this game to be far and away better than in LC. If it was intentional, I appreciate the effort. If not, moar D1 kush plox. I really did find you town D1, was able to read your posts and process them, and they made sense. As opposed to LC where I honestly skipped your posts while rereading the thread, because I'd missed so much and I wasn't going to bother trying to figure out which posts had actual points and which posts were you just swapping votes for silly reasons. I ended up scummy on you, in part because you just happened to have a bad read at a bad time, but I think if you'd been able to sustain your D1 posting throughout the game, I might not have been so scummy on you. It felt like things broke down once people started pressuring you and you had to post more and more. Dunno if that's the case, or if you took what I said seriously and played while on PCP, but...more D1 kush please? And thanks for D1 kush? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 23 2012 00:35 thrawn2112 wrote: austin i did not think yuo were town. i thought out of all the people who could be lynched you were least town anyways it didnt help that kush and i were the only ones willing to talk to you that entire day Boooooo. But okay | ||
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