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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On September 30 2012 14:15 Drazerk wrote: I disagree the set up speculation would start again when all the Europeans wake up because your little idea was poorly managed. To me it just looks like a third party realizing they had done something silly and trying to back out of it before they are caught out without realizing their excuse puts even more focus on the stunt. If you wanted to truly derail the thread from set up you would of kicked up a storm and not backed down for at least 24 hours. A 2 hour changeover where only mattchew posted anything significant isn't that. People seem to be missing this. The first time he said it, he had some options in there, but now Draz seems focused on "Third Party" for Keirathi... Not scum, but potentially third party (based on all that same speculation about setup)? You suggesting you know who IS scum, Drazerk? ##Vote Drazerk | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 01 2012 05:20 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: Also, I hope nobody will have the nerve of calling me hypocrite and vote me because of "me doing the same thing JingleHell is doing" or some shit like that. I'm going to study for my test, but I'll be around, so I'll answer any questions you guys have and try to be here and not just disappear. Oh, so you acknowledge that your "case" against me would work similarly against yourself? Good, I'll just ignore you. If it was somehow ambiguous, I found Draz suspicious in that he seemed to have just assumed a specific subset of non-town for Keirathi. Generally, if I see something as anti-town, I don't go saying "Oh, he must be third party". Why? Because scum is anti-town. Making a faction based guess, especially in a closed setup, beyond saying "X is acting anti-town" sounds like you're privy to some knowledge about factions, and it's probably a little early for that. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 01 2012 05:48 Mattchew wrote: insta-delurk. actively lurking is cool ##vote: JingleHell Terrible timing. I had just logged out of GW2. Believe it or not, I don't much care. As for Gonzaw, I'm just going to ignore his ass, if anyone else would like to actually question my motives instead of just making silly assumptions so they can look active by jumping on a dumbass bandwagon, I'll happily answer them. Especially since Gonzaw quotes my post where I explain why I think Draz was being scummy, and then asks me, in essence, to explain what he just quoted. Unless he needs it in smaller words, there's no value in responding. | ||
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JingleHell
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Hiro, could you expand on why familiarity with Drazerk makes that seem less scummy? Oh, and as for trying to be leader-y, after my dismal performance in PTP3, and worse, people listening to me while I was doing it, I'm trying to formulate more solid cases before going after people. I seem to have a knack for accidentally creating anti-town bandwagons, so I want to avoid a repeat of that. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 01 2012 06:32 HiroPro wrote: No, it's not. I don't think that JingleHell has played with town Drazerk before. I have and I know that Drazerk is obsessed with third parties regardless of his own alignment. That's good to know. For now, then... ##Unvote I'm going to continue to wait a bit before going into heavy attack mode on anyone, though, for the reason I just gave. Fuck bandwagons and (too often my own) bad cases. | ||
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On October 01 2012 06:56 HiroPro wrote: I find this a bit weird, "seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it", but he could just be busy. Frankly, I'm more interested to hear what he has to say about other people. Ignoring my paranoia about people bandwagoning on what could turn out to be bad reads, if I go pointing to Mattchew's actively-lurky accusation of me actively lurking, he'd just say OMGUS. Not much else he's done that's really worth analyzing, without breaking down silly things, which will always end up making someone look scummy. Gonzaw, who's mixing a tunnel my direction, and asking for the tail to wag the dog (he keeps pointing my way, and asking everyone else to dive in before he commits any harder), would scream OMGUS if I made that into a case. Draz, who I unvoted, I'm continuing to keep an eye on. A lot of us, minimal posting. If I rip into Ghost for his rather funky post that's already been commented on, people who are already looking at me based on napkin-thin logic will assume I'm trying to redirect suspicion (which, realistically, they'd say about anything probably, but still.) It's "too easy" to jump on board with that, and while I dislike the post, I'm assuming it made more sense in his head, because that's too often the case with posts that get people shredded on D1. And I'm trying not to lead into cases based on over-analyzing one or two posts yet, because when I do that, I do a better job of persuading people than is good for town, so I'm waiting for larger patterns. And, as always, if anyone likes one of Gonzaw's questions for me, please repeat it, because I don't feel like indulging him. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 01 2012 23:45 Drazerk wrote: If we don't lynch S+B my next target would probably be JH because I just hate the wounded survivor act but its not really telling of alignment. Hey people. Awake and not busy right now, and catching up with the thread. (Uh-oh, I must be active lurking, how DARE I answer stuff directed at me?) What, exactly, are you calling a "wounded survivor" act? If you're referring to me not wasting my time answering Gonzaw directly when he's being irrational, it's not worth it. The way he's posting is pretty much 100% guaranteed to incite an argument if I answer him, which is no good to anyone. I'm seriously starting to get paranoid about Gonzaw. He wants other people to weigh in before he commits to a course of action, he posts in a way intended to spark arguments, he doesn't give a shit who gets lynched, and he spreads suspicion around like icing on a cake. (Incoming accusation of OMGUS in 3, 2...) | ||
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JingleHell
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Well, sorry you don't appreciate the reason, but it's hard for it not to be foremost in my mind, this is my first game played since that performance. It was painfully embarrassing. I'm not trying to make myself seem like a non-threat, or push my townie-ness with it, I tried to answer a (fairly valid) point, with my reason for not playing the same way. I probably over-made the point, but that can't much be helped. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote: Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? I led several rather key mislynches. As town. Pushing Grush was about the least embarrassing part of my performance, because frankly, he's useless. I do wish he'd died earlier in the game, though. I don't remember all the specifics at this point off the top of my head, but almost every time I convinced people on someone, it made the overall situation worse. Clearly, if I make too much case out of too little, it doesn't serve the town, so I'm letting things solidify in my mind and in the thread a bit more before going into hardcore push people mode, because once I do that, there's a tendency for someone to get lynched. Being in a town-leader-ish position is only good if I don't also get nominated as the scumteam's MVP as town for it. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 00:40 Keirathi wrote: How long, exactly, do you plan to wait? Theres only 7.5 hours until the deadline. How long do I plan to wait to go into hard-push mode on someone? Until I'm reasonably confident in my assessment. I'm not going to suddenly play differently just to make you happy, so deal with it. If you really want someone slammed into the floor, take a case and run with it, and slam someone into the floor. Don't wait for a scapegoat to lead the case. At any rate, my favorite target right now would probably be Gonzaw, between the stuff I've already pointed to, his wishy-washy voting everywhere, and his public "Oh, the person who's most interested in me is going to be my placeholder vote, I'll be back some time after the deadline, which might make that person look scummy if they decided to push". That's survivor play, not town-win play. In fact, speaking of such, ##Vote Gonzaw | ||
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JingleHell
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##Unvote ##Vote Gonzaw Sorry, need more caffeine. | ||
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Or do you want townies to lead mislynches? | ||
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On October 02 2012 01:20 Mementoss wrote: we want you to promote discussion. which exactly what discussing your reads and making cases does. I wanted Keirathi's answer. And I have promoted and joined discussion. I'm just being less aggressive and pushy about it. | ||
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JingleHell
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Amusingly, out of people who have talked to or about me, the one I'd be least suspicious of voting me also seems to be the one most inclined to actually wait for a good reason, and that's Keirathi. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 02:12 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: I guess he could have meant that he thought I was faking the effort and just making bullshit up. But that's demonstrably not the case. If you said "Not demonstrably", I could maybe agree. Saying "demonstrably not" is a bit harder to see. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 02:20 Drazerk wrote: Does anyone think the JH lynch feels off to anyone else? I can't put my finger on it... it just feels wrong Well, it's based in misrepresenting my play now to me "not playing", when I'm actually "playing less agressively", for reasons that were explained. The inference they're using to push me is that I'm not participating, which I think is ridiculous. In particular since Mattchew isn't willing to push it, and Gonzaw insists that his vote is a convenient placeholder, and oh by the way, he'll be back after lynch, hope it doesn't go bad. It feels completely scripted and noncommittal, although I'm sure someone will scream OMGUS at me saying that. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 02:26 Mementoss wrote: Instead of spreading doubt on your lynch when it isn't even close why don't you put together a post explaining your top 2 scums reads with some sort of explanation why? Stop defending yourself at every turn and explaining yourself try to actually push a read for the lynch. Because I already fucking did that, and people promptly ignored it and accused me of not playing, using it as motivation to push me as a target without committing to it? | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 02:32 austinmcc wrote: There's a combination of nobody really hard-defending him and nobody just BLASTING his play here, that I don't love, but I'm not sure how you'd get either of those with what we have to work with. What are the alternatives? (I'm not voting snb because he should be interacting with you differently)ghost/nisani/iamperfection? It feels too much like RNGing between the three. I don't like Mattchew for scum, he's my strongest town-read right now. I don't like gonzaw for scum atm, although it'll take more time to figure that one out. I don't like me for scum, because I'm not. So those posts are out. This is your other post where you mention a few people, and it IS the best thing in your filter. But...it doesn't really have much to it. Gonzaw tunneling you. You're keeping an eye on Drazerk. Ghost's post looks bad but you won't deal with it because we'll jump on you. You mention a lot of names, but you don't SAY anything. How does your eye feel about Drazerk atm? Do you think ghost's post/vote looks different or worse than iamperfection and nisani? I don't require you to agree with my reads, or vote based on them. But to dismiss them as not playing and being scummy just because you disagree is ludicrous, especially if you aren't willing or able to argue with my reasoning for those reads. I'm still not sure about Drazerk. He's fucking hard to read, and anything I could make on him could just as easily be over-analysis. I'm still leaning potential scum. Also, if my strongest reads are Mattchew and Gonzaw, I'm going to focus them more. Just to be realistic, if I go accusing the entire thread of being scummy based on one or two things, it's not going to contribute to discussion either. I recently gave a "possible town" read on Keirathi because he at least makes sense when he discusses what he finds suspicious about me. I didn't say it in as many words, but that was the intent of the post. Oh, right, that got dismissed as me throwing doubts on anyone voting me. Ghost, I've discussed a small amount. If I was going to be worried, it would be more based on lurkiness. Usually, a one post wonder lynch target D1 turns out to be a mislynch, especially when there's so much room for interpretation in the post. If we don't see more from him, though, he'll start looking like a target. Sorry if I don't sound particularly heavy handed regarding people who aren't my primary reads right now, but I'm not playing to make you happy, I'm playing to hunt scum. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 02:33 iamperfection wrote: @ JINGLE Why do you have to feel you have to change your style if you are town? In the game i played with you i thought you played quite well and we did catch 1 scum because of mainly all of your effort. Was it just because of one bad performance? Have you tried reading the thread, or my filter, to find the answer to that question? It's in there. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 02:50 austinmcc wrote: I don't find your reads scummy because I disagree with them. I find that POST scummy because it brings up a bunch of players, give a tiny thought on each, and moves on. There's no ... substance. There's not much besides hunches based on small things to work with. I could go through their filter with a fine tooth comb and a negative outlook and make them look so scummy their own mothers would want to lynch them, but frankly, that's got a nasty tendency to not make good cases. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 02:51 iamperfection wrote: i did read it. my point is who gives a shit if you had one bad game. It takes a village and i find it strange you would completly change your style just because of that. Because if I'm wrong and persuasive, it's BAD. As a townie in PTP3, I was probably the scum MVP. I made bad reads and good cases, and hurt the town badly. Since I don't want to repeat that, I'm hoping people will reach their own conclusions, but instead they're all looking for someone to sheep. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 03:49 Mementoss wrote: This exchange read extremely weird for me, especially since before this austimccn has never mentioned Iamperfection. You know, that's actually an intriguing point. Mind explaining, austin? | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 03:59 Drazerk wrote: Replaced by a potato or a lemon? Replaced by a corrupted core. | ||
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JingleHell
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After all, Gonzaw called his vote a throwaway, and Mattchew keeps screaming my name and putting his vote elsewhere. Kind of like Gonzaw did at one point. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 04:39 austinmcc wrote: No. They're not worthy of sheeping for that, they come off town to me for that. And for the other stuff mentioned above. It DOES seem like neither wants to lead the wagon. However, Mattchew pretty clearly wants to lead a vote on iamperfection. How is him clearly wanting to lead a lynch on someone else scummy because he won't lead a lynch on you? It's scummy because neither of them has yet to make sense in their suspicions, neither wants to lead it, both want to direct suspicion at me, and both have demonstrated willingness to sheep onto me for little to no reason. That looks less like scumhunting and more like avoiding suspicion. Avoiding suspicion is, at best, a null tell, and certainly not validation for strong town reads. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 04:47 austinmcc wrote: You think...Mattchew is pursuing iamperfection this hard, not because he wants to hunt scum, but because he wants to avoid suspicion? Pursuing him hard? He wasn't the first. Here's his "analysis". On October 02 2012 00:39 Mattchew wrote: gonna hop right back into the thread with some analysis I believe iamperfection is scum and I would like everyone to click on his filter This post clearly mis-reads what ghost is trying to say and jumps on him with a hyperbole and what feels like a very fake sense of confidence. The way this post is worded is not as much anger as much as it reads "grab your pitchforks and bandwagon with me" After this, his teeth are sunk into ghost, and he is afraid to move. He also has failed to comment on literally anyone else in the thread. His reasoning is bad, his contributions are next to nothing. Honestly I don't think anything more needs to be written. Enough time has past for iamperfection to comment on other players, or contribute to actual discussion. His reasoning for pushing a ghost lynch is bad and grasping at straws. ##unvote ##vote Iamperfection On October 02 2012 01:15 Mattchew wrote: austin why arent you voting iamperfection with me? On October 02 2012 01:59 Mattchew wrote: ghost has provided opinions confidently. Do you feel that he is hiding something or just doesnt care about adding in extended explainations? Nisani is more of a meta read for me, but I see him play like this a decent amount Iamperfection is purposefully ignoring the rest of the thread and is not trying to actually help town with anything useful or anything that resembles effort. JH as i have said, is a lynch I would support but I would much rather lynch iamperfection On October 02 2012 03:04 Mattchew wrote: lets expand on this... what do you think of his contributions to the game. What do you think of his read on ghost? Do you agree with his reasoning? What would make you think he is town? Wow, that's such strong pressure! Including a desire to get OTHER people to provide a rationale for it. This looks more like fake scumhunting than real. Sheeping, asking others to contribute to his paper thin case, and making noise about a lack of contribution. The exact same formula he used to jump on me. In other words, yeah right. Hell, at this point, I'm convincing myself to vote Mattchew over Gonzaw... ##Unvote ##Vote Mattchew | ||
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JingleHell
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I think the correct solution is to wait for a vigi to get frustrated and find out for us. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 05:33 Drazerk wrote: and pushing non lynch targets is a pretty good thing to do as scum IMO Well, speaking of not assuming what scum would or wouldn't do... since we're in the realm of pure, unadulterated WIFOM from the purest sense of the word, it's also good for scum to push lynch targets. Since people assume that's not scum behavior, since it can be harder to keep things straight, it lets you hide in plain sight. Everything and nothing is scummy in Mafia. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 05:36 Drazerk wrote: Safe non controversial day 1 target - iamperf flips town - JH gains huge town momentum - JH wins game. Ah, but see, scum me could KNOW that you might think that, at which point scum me could easily break a deadlock, and point to how no scum would dive into such dangerous waters, scum Jingle gains huge momentum, scum Jingle wins game! Except Drazerk might know that I know and know my plan, so then he'd see that possibility! But I'm ready for that, so... Fuck it. DUCK SEASON! | ||
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JingleHell
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Well, that was kind of my point. Literally any and every action can be both scummy and townie, depending on individual perceptions. There's no such thing as a "safe" scum action, since all it takes is one persuasive individual perceiving things correctly. I do think it's silly how Austin is still hung up on my "False premise" regarding Mattchew, when we're basically discussing how there's no such thing as a false premise in Mafia. | ||
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On October 02 2012 05:50 austinmcc wrote: Unless you're gonna flip red here and prove me wrong, there are some posts that just don't come from townies. Not that every townie every game posts something that shows he/she's town, but sometimes they pop up. Haven't been wrong about one yet. Well, I'm less worried about being flipped than I am about the possibility of flipping with people not seeing the attack on me in the correct light. Dying as a townie can be irksome, but it can say a lot about the people in the game. In PTP3, for example, early-ish, I was after Mattchew pretty hard. I was a townie. My power had randomly redirected his vigi shot. His claim looked really awkward, but then I claimed my role, to keep him from getting lynched for the wrong reason. If there's anything worse than townies being wrong, it's deliberately ignoring possible information. That, however, is exactly what you're doing. Regardless of the reason, you consider my concept of someone wanting to push without seeming to lead a push as insane, impossible, or improbable. That's disregarding a conclusion that the facts can lead to, even when we've just recently discussed that due to WIFOM, every action can be scummy or not scummy. | ||
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On October 02 2012 06:05 ghost_403 wrote: JH, why are you spending so much time defending yourself instead of just hunting for scum? And austin, why are you taking part of this conversation? I'm trying to figure out what the two of you are actually talking about, and I can't figure it out. Ghost, hunt for scum first, then question the amount of scumhunting I've done. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 06:23 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: What I mean is, the case isn't gaining traction, and I don't think I have enough to convince anyone off of their null reads to vote for him. He has very little in the way of content for people to analyze. Its getting down to crunch time and we're going to have to consolidate onto someone at some point. Last I looked, there were literally votes on 8 out of the 13 players. Continuing to push someone that isn't going to get lynched is useless. We don't have to consolidate at all. Greymist is just being confusing. This game is a simple majority lynch. Whoever has the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. From the OP. The description includes the word majority, but it's a simple majority, with the description not matching what we think of as "Majority lynch". | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 06:29 Keirathi wrote: Yes, I realize that. Its basically plurality. That doesn't mean we don't need to consolidate. Having votes out on 2/3 of the players in the game just gives scum a place to hide. IMO, we need a polarized vote so that scum are forced to pick a side and justify it. So that we can argue WIFOM with each other regarding what votes mean, when the scum team will actually be divided anyways most likely? No, the main reason I could imagine seeing that as critical would be if we were at MYLO, to make it a little harder for scum to swing last minute. | ||
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JingleHell
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It's a nice theory, but it still comes down to "Do you believe X's reason to vote for Y is legitimate?" "Do you believe X is scum?" As a counterpoint, "Consolidation" provides the perfect excuse to hop wagons without a valid reason. "Everyone wanted to consolidate, and I felt like X was slightly scummier than Y. Blame Q for suggesting we consolidate, not me!" There's never guarantees, and anything can be turned to an advantage by anyone, if the circumstances and argument are right. I don't think one option or the other is inherently any better. At least if you don't push for consolidation, then people who choose to consolidate might still face serious pressure to explain a mislynch vote. | ||
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JingleHell
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Let's get him tomorrow, gents. Or am I supposed to ignore his tone in his post and bathe in good feelings because he agreed that I'm town while he spewed all sorts of shit? | ||
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On October 02 2012 10:34 gonzaw wrote: "Town you impress me" is kind of the opposite of "I told you so". Hell I expected it to be a misslynch (I even said so myself) so I'm very impressed. If people had done what I told them to they would have lynched you and (unfortunately) you would have flipped town most likely. Please read carefully before posting. Also I'm not an "arrogant dipshit" and that's the most ironic statement I've seen in TL mafia. Again, carefully read my post, specially the part where I give you advice. No. Calm down, read the thread carefully, stop being so biased and arrogant and think. After you've done that come back and consider lynching me again. I won't take you seriously until you do @S&B: Dude, start posting NOW or I'll do everything in my power to kill you. If I can ever be justified in tunneling the hell out of you in any game we play together it's in this one. You only have 7 freaking posts, 4 of them having less than 3 lines. @Crossfire: You know, the fact that you forgot it's plurality lynch and not majority lynch actually makes you look worse, since you parked your vote on iamperfection and left. If you were scum maybe you thought there would be a NL so you thought iamperfection was safe before disappearing. Is this the case? I don't know. If you don't give more thorough reads and actively participate in discussion while giving your thoughts on things discussed and your thought process (<-most important one) I and the rest of town can't know for sure. The only irony here is that you start talking shit (which, thankfully, came well AFTER I pointed to your earlier, lighter efforts at inflammation) and then act like I'm being unreasonable when I turn it around on you. Oh, and maybe the fact that you're trying to use my defense that you clearly hated against me now. QQ much? No, you're caught, give it up. It wouldn't be the first time that a soft bus wasn't enough to buy someone town cred. Byebye. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 02 2012 11:31 gonzaw wrote: You are not making any sense Jingle. Although good job in convincing me you are bad town rather than scum I guess that means you are not actually playing that "bad"? >_> Hell if I know. You're relying on an ad hominem attack against me to defend against my solidifying case, even though you trying to be inflammatory was a point I made before your recent attempts. You're actually helping make my case. And since I don't need to convince you you're scum, just everyone else, feel free to keep it up. Ad homs aren't cases, and they're not defenses, but it's all you have. Cheers. | ||
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On October 02 2012 11:43 gonzaw wrote: If you have a case against me please post it/link to it. I seriously haven't seen anything resembling a serious accusation from you against me, other than that "you softly bussed iapmerfection" and "he's wishy-washy" Oh, so you're ignoring the thread, except when it's convenient? More scumtell-ish-ness. Keep handing me evidence. Certainly, if you're going to make personal attacks, which you did, you should be basing them off the person's posting, which should imply you've read it well enough to know it's there. | ||
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JingleHell
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If you want to ignore me, except to throw insults around in an effort to make me look bad so people won't see it and agree, please, just ignore me, it's much better for the thread. That's what I'll be doing for a while, at least until you show some actual reasoning. | ||
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On October 03 2012 04:06 austinmcc wrote: JH, what are your reads on Keirathi and mementoss? Also, I'm trying to follow this spat between you and Gonzaw. You think the early vote on iamperfection and then unvote was a bus attempt that he gave up on? I see a lot of quick responses, but I don't see a coherent summation of why you're finding him scummy based on what he's done. I think it was a soft bus. Common enough. He was accusing lots of people, vanished with a "throwaway" vote on me, was trying to incite hostilities (and temporarily succeeded, unfortunately) which can only benefit scum, as it makes it hard for his primary detractor to make a case, and hurts logic and reason. His case on me sounded like something grush would come up with, and all of a sudden he's sure I'm town, but that I'm so bad nobody should listen to me. Yeah, I think he's scum. I don't particularly feel like doing a cut/paste fest to support this, but I can if needed. I just expect a lot of people to react to his inflammatory attitude and ad homs by ignoring anything I put together on him, so it'd be a lot of work for nothing. Give me a few minutes, and I'll put my thoughts on Keirathi and Memen into proper light. | ||
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Keirathi, on the other hand, feels like he knew in advance. He was fairly non-committal with his words, but definitely not feeling it enough to vote. That's a reasonable scum tactic with that sort of lynch. Also, he was pushing consolidation, which might have rescued perfection. | ||
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On October 03 2012 05:43 austinmcc wrote: Also, where do I sheep Gonzaw on JH? You include stuff like that with no reference to Gonzaw on JH, not referencing my prior posts on JH, and then say you have to leave thread. I'd say if you sheeped anyone regarding me, it would have felt more like you sheeped Mattchew. But really, you were one of the people who at least sounded sane in your suspicions, and overall, you were thinking for yourself, so even if your intial reaction was sheep-ish, your continued interest couldn't be called that. | ||
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On October 03 2012 07:07 Mattchew wrote: i am actively lurking debating if i want to put in the effort for a post on people now or later OOOH Your first post directed at me was calling me scummy, claiming that missing part of the first half of D1 was active lurking! LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH!! | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 01 2012 23:52 Mementoss wrote: Any reason for leaving out mattchew, strongandbig, hiropro, keirathi, drazerk? lol you can't make a list with 6/12 players (not including yourself) That is way too broad, you can't think they are all scum, and its way too easy for scum just to pick one that is not scum and go hey look, why 6 players instead of maybe 3. On October 01 2012 23:56 Mementoss wrote: DEWBOP: Since when does gonzaw need convincing of who to lynch, isn't gonzaw the one that usually does the convincing? On October 02 2012 08:54 Mementoss wrote: wat Didn't do anything First one to post a case on Iamperfection and make a case Also, what timing. No posting since you left but you manage to make it back 50 minutes after the night post. But nothing before the deadline. Also this last post before you take off for the rest of the day struck me as odd. Pretty weak reason to switch/ odd timing: Also the tone in your posts don't seem like your town self. On October 02 2012 08:58 Mementoss wrote: Also @gonzaw, austin is most likely town for what? Sheeping onto iamperfection when mattchew told him to? Trying to counterwagon a last minute switch onto keirathi? Dude, either your out of it this game or scum not sure. Now obviously, he was a solid target no matter what for an NK, since he got perfection, but this is someone who hasn't been baited into an argument by Gonzaw who seems to have also had some serious doubts. I've said what I felt about him already myself. ##Vote Gonzaw | ||
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On October 03 2012 08:11 Mattchew wrote: JH why not austin? Mattchew, why not Gonzaw? As Memen said, austin DID explain a lot of those things, he just thought they were justification. I can't be sure one way or the other with austin, he's given alternately scummy and towny vibes to me. When I get back from TKD, I'll try and take a better look through. Got to leave soonish, and there's a bit to wade through, and context will probably matter. | ||
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On October 03 2012 08:35 Mattchew wrote: i just find it very strange how quickly you are willing to jump on gonzaw cause of meme pushing him, while not jumping on austin for the same reason.. One, I was already thinking Gonzaw was scummy, Meme, it seems, had similar doubts. Austin I was on the fence about, and if you'll notice, Meme's post even ADMITS that Austin has what can be taken as fair explanations, so it's down to whether you accept those explanations. Which is why I'm digging through them later. Got to run out the door time now, though, just finished getting my shit together to go. Cheers. | ||
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On October 03 2012 05:32 Mementoss wrote: My thoughts on Austinmcc: When I think of everyone in the game the person that sticks out most to me as scum is austinmcc. I realize that most of these points were explained by austin, but any decent scum player can explain things after the fact of doing them. So I figured id sum up my thoughts in this post. 2. Keeps implying finding keirathi but is too scared to actually place a vote on him, even after complaining about people not consolidating on the votes. Wouldn't austin want to place a vote on keirathi and start pushing him now?? Nope. No fucks were given by austin about keirathis lynch. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote: Alright, done some rereading. My number 1 concern at this point is the number of side squabbles and useless votes that we've got. Previous votecount had 6 people with votes, and I think we're still about as spread out as we were before. Stuff like: Drazerk/snb very interested in each other. Both voting each other, in part, based on what seems to be "He should understand my play better." I don't want to lynch either of them today, and telling me that some other player should understand you better doesn't make me want to lynch that other guy. The votes feel entirely wasted. ghost's vote is wasted. Votes keirathi for trying too hard, never engages anyone else who's talking about keirathi. nisani201 still has a vote on Drazerk for Drazerk's initial response to Keirathi. Followed by very little else and Can't single people out for not contributing, but those votes look like they've been made without any attempt to convince anyone else, and they don't feel like they're serving a purpose. JH, how is PTP3 pushing you to play this way? Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 00:58 austinmcc wrote: Those jumps are based on what you did in the meantime. Here's my initial post: I didn't see your unvote for weak reasons as scummy. Drazerk had just posted that it was third party or idiot, I didn't find it to be telling at all because the reasoning behind the vote in the first place didn't seem strong. Then after that post, you give your explanation and justification. THAT is what I feel is scummy, reminds me of scum. I'm not concerned about you unvoting based on some weak comments from matt (What drazerk mentioned and what I didn't find scummy), I'm concerned about you based on your later explanation where you claim to have wanted discussion and opinions yet unvote before any of that ever appears. Right now, I'm scummy on you. I'm not going to lead a crusade to lynch you because the way you explained a plan reminds of what a scum player in another game did, however. For now I'm looking elsewhere for today's lynch, and I'm watching you. I'm alright with the way you discussed Ghost when talking to Gonzaw, I don't think someone can get a free pass for a terrible vote and then not pushing it at all. If you want me to keep looking at you, fine. What's up with this? You've been doing more in thread, but it seems like you're getting on JH for saying he's doing exactly what you've said you're doing. Why is it fine for you to wait to scumhunt until you've got enough to make a case, but it's not alright for JH to wait before pushing someone? 4. Town reads on Mattchew and Gonzaw. Explained to the max. This just gives me the wrong feeling and reminds me of Palmar from rockband to a bigger extreme. I know he was asked to do this, but the extent he did it, espeically on day 1 town reads. It seems like he actually knows their alignments. This time coulda been spent scum hunting, or provoking some sort of discussion. No one was even thinking of voting either of these two atm, so why give a huge town read on them? Who are you convincing? Who does this help for day 1? + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 04:26 austinmcc wrote: On Mattchew, it's a couple of his posts. In particular, this one: I'd just mentioned not liking drazerk/snb being so focused on each other:The fact that Mattchew was similarly critical gives me a townie feel. Drazerk's questions the last couple of pages have been good. I hope he would be playing the same way regardless of my comment or matt's comment, I don't think they influenced him, but he and snb being so focused on each other wasn't really helping town based on the reasoning they were providing. His iamperfection question to me felt townie. It's...an odd way to phrase something as scum? Like, you can just say "What is your read?" or "Would you vote iamperfection?" Instead he asks why I'm not voting with him, just an odd little bit of creativity. scumMatt from what I'm seen is either disinterested or...claims scum. Creative questions don't fit the bill for either of those. He's continued to pursue iamperfection, in a noticeably different way than the early voters that I've been critical of. Whereas ghost/nisani just left the thread, and iamperfection stayed focused on ghost, Mattchew has been actively commenting on other matters, has been asking questions to others, has been trying to get iamperfection lynched. It stands out so differently from behavior that I'm finding scummy in others. The gonzaw read is weaker, but the way he returned to thread feels like he was being gonzaw-y. Spammy, finding lots of little stuff, talking about it. In particular, things like this:I like finding odd interactions or posts. This was one of those...interesting finds. Not necessarily scummy, but worth noting. He noted it, explained why he was interested, and then went further later in the post to vote JH after adding in some other stuff. I like that he pulled out a weird interaction, didn't completely disregard it, didn't blast anyone for it, but used it to look further at someone. He asked this which was a good question and something I was going to ask until I saw he'd already done so. He also comes off townie in the way he addresses mementoss here: As I read it, he's concerned with mementoss's post on me. Instead of straight-up saying that, or directly confronting mementoss, he just sort of asks this minor question. What are you doing with it now? It shows me that he's trying to piece things together, that he's actively thinking about alignments. He could have burst in with "this post makes me feel weird," but he doesn't, and dangling that question out without giving a full read comes of townie to me. 5. Finally votes keirathi!! But with only 45 minutes till lynch deadline.... Why?! WHY?! When he has clearly been on him and thought he was scum all day he waits till 45 minutes left to try and lynch him. I'll tell you why, because Iamperfection his teamate the godfather the jack of all trades glados was about to die. 7. Is aware he plays scummy on day 1, but has no motivation to change it. This is really just an excuse for acting scummy while being scum. I gotta go now. But that is all I have. Austin has had some townie posts in his filter I will admit, but the strange way he goes about things makes me think he is scum. His contradictions that he doesn't think are contradictions make me think he is scum. I think the chunks I left might be worth building a case around. Bolded/underlined him pointing to a possible connection involving Gonzaw (and Mattchew, but for now, giving Matt BOTD for reasons already stated). I think a lot of the rest of it is down to how you read it, and didn't find those chunks particularly noteworthy compared to what I left. I don't think a scum Austin and a scum Gonzaw are at all mutually exclusive, and I'd lynch either at the moment on the current evidence, but I prefer Gonzaw just because one of his scumslips happened to be inflammatory comments directed at me, which will make it more gratifying. | ||
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By that rationale, there's only two ways scum didn't shoot a "suspect", and that's if they shot one of their own, or nobody at all. Just to add to the pile of reasons I prefer killing him before Austin. Plus, of course, he casually dismisses the possibility of Austin wanting Mementoss dead a bit ago. On October 03 2012 11:08 gonzaw wrote: It is entirely possible a scum austin would kill mementos to avoid the pressure and then say "I wouldn't do that as scum"....but really I haven't really seen that happen when non-vet-players are concerned (i.e if it was wbg or Ace or something I wouldn't just shrug it off). Look, he says Austin probably wouldn't do that. But then, Austin doesn't have to when Gonzaw can do it for him. | ||
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On October 03 2012 11:42 gonzaw wrote: Jingle, I just want you to answer me this: You are willing to entertain the idea that 2 of the most active players, and most contributors (in a way) are scum but you won't entertain the idea that guys that didn't do shit on D1 or N1, where never around, didn't care about discussion or the lynch at all, and the only contribution they had was 1 post with a "list" of reads that were full of fluff aren't? Entertain the idea please, at least so you pay attention to them. If you think they are town and me or austin scum then please state so I don't think activity is even remotely alignment indicative, but generally, I think people who have near-modkill experiences every day of the game are less likely to be scum. And at what point was I ambiguous about you and Austin being my favorite two lynch candidates right now? Pretty sure I made that abundantly clear. But then, you keep ignoring things you aren't actively working with in the thread, almost like you're only situationally interested, which is scum behavior. Hey, didn't I mention that before? | ||
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On October 03 2012 12:13 gonzaw wrote: lol it's Can't Believe all over again (replace talismania with iamperfection). I don't see anything wrong with what I did, I can't lie and be "confident" on someone being scum when I'm not. I'll just ignore any "link" you guys think there is between me and iamperfection since it's not worth time arguing about (again, it will end up the same as Can't Believe and you guys are and will be grasping at straws). On October 03 2012 02:26 gonzaw wrote: This leaves me with 4 guys: Nisani, Mementos, Drazerk, S&B. There's this little voice in the back of my mind that tells me "Drazerk and S&B are bussing each other to disrupt everything in the thread and cause shitstorms and then when one of them flips the other one plays the 'a confirmed scum wanted me dead therefore I'm town' card; just like that Toad-vs-VE feud from LI". Yeah. How DARE we suggest possible connections between players? Ignore it from everyone if you like, even I wasn't doing that, I was happy to take your questions if someone sane repeated them. So if I'm "bad town" what does that make you? Remember, we don't make a case against you to convince you. Just everyone else. So a complete refusal to defend (rather than waiting to see if you actually need to) is just one more scummy thing to mention. Especially when it's kinda hypocritical. | ||
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I'm operating under the assumption that he's a VI type role at this point. If we don't run out of scum with the people who are suspicious without seeming to beg for it, we can always kill him as a backup plan. | ||
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On October 04 2012 02:38 Mattchew wrote: Gonzaw - His posting displays his thought process and a ton of second guessing himself, i feel this is very very (if not impossible) to fake as scum when you actually have more information than town. Who we should be lynching Jinglehell - tried to push me as scum based on my case on iamperf. I feel like this was more of an attempt to discredit me and the case I made than an actual push on me. Also, he gets really mad at gonzaw. He also is proven to be actively lurking on multiple occasions now Huh? So Gonzaw is not that scummy for behavior that people have bitched at me about some in this game? Not directly, but that was kind of the impression I got from some of the commentary on my posts. On October 04 2012 02:56 gonzaw wrote: I don't think Jingle would be this aggressive and "active" as scum. He's all over the place and is making such "obvious" mistakes (going against you for shitty reasons, then tunneling me all freaking game, etc) that I doubt he'd willingly make those actions as scum. He seems much more like overconfident townie that "already figured the scum team out" and doesn't care about anything else but his ego. I don't think his attitude and activity is something he'd fake as scum. Remember that at some points he was just posting and posting and posting and posting. That'd take A LOT of trouble as scum to fake, specially if it doesn't seem to further any real scum agenda other than "keep shitting on gonzaw/Mattchew", which like I said isn't really a good scum agenda anyways. Gonzaw, still trying to discredit anything I say, even though I'm not even close to the only person who saw it, still making personal attacks, and seems really damn confident in my townieness. On October 04 2012 03:09 austinmcc wrote: I am 100% certain JH is town. Short of me getting an unframeable DT check on him or something and him claiming scum in thread, I'm not willing to vote him. Austin is also scarily confident in town reading. We really need to be lynching one of these two today. | ||
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On October 05 2012 02:34 Drazerk wrote: ok Gonzaw's gone ignore all his posts on Nisani and follow me on lynching S+B This almost makes me feel bad for my original vote on you, except you're aiming for SNB over Gonzaw. Although SNB would probably be third on my list after Gonzaw and Austin, just because I remember him being a bit more assertive when I've seen him. | ||
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On October 05 2012 02:39 Keirathi wrote: So you think s&b made it all up? What about my point about the p-body smurf in the caller game before roles went out? I think that sort of speculation is absurd from every angle. I'd certainly rather see SNB than Nisani, so actually, since people aren't listening on Gonzaw yet... ##Unvote ##Vote Strongandbig | ||
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On October 05 2012 02:48 Keirathi wrote: @JH: So you think it makes more sense that either he randomly picked the name pbody for his partner, or he saw the pbody smurf and made up an elaborate story and exact role details, than it does him actually telling the truth? I don't know if you're just being ginormously dense, or scum. Because in no way does that scenario make sense to me. Suggesting there's only two possible options, one of which must be true, neither of which is pleasant, is a logical fallacy. It's like asking me when I started cheating on my wife. You're ignoring all kinds of random possible options, purely for the sake of discrediting me. You trying Gonzaw's style? You'll notice I don't give a rats fuck about what he tells me to vote either. | ||
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On October 05 2012 02:58 Keirathi wrote: I gave 4 options when I said why I believed him. That he is telling the truth just makes the most sense. More often than not, the simple answer is the correct one, in my experience. No, you gave ME two options. You said I must just be dense or scum, because I either believe he randomly made something up based on either X or Y. That ignores the possibility of safe claims, third party, or all kinds of stuff. Your "YOU MUST BE USELESS OR SCUM FOR DARING TO DISAGREE WITH ME" is an emotional reaction seeking and otherwise generally scummy tactic, but even so, I'm at least giving you the BOTD that you could just be absurdly egocentric. | ||
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On October 05 2012 04:04 strongandbig wrote: Will anyone tell me though why it's okay keeping Drazerk alive? No one ever seems to interact with the substance of what I'm saying. Also I don't like this keirathi / jingle hell recent minishitfight. Something feels weird about it to me. The whole thing just feels so unnecessary. He's not the first person to try and force me to play a certain way, he won't be the last. Your attempt to redirect suspicion has been duly noted, however. | ||
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On October 05 2012 04:08 strongandbig wrote: Is pointing out anything I find suspicious automatically "redirecting suspicion"? That's silly. Well, every time I refuse to agree with someone it's automatically either scummy or bad, so I figured I'd take a page out of the Keirathi/Gonzaw playbook. | ||
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On October 05 2012 04:24 strongandbig wrote: I don't think drazerk needs to be today's lynch. I'm voting nisani because I think he's scum. I just want drazerk to die and I want everyone to tell him how shitty he is so maybe he changes a little. Hey SNB, didn't you flip complete apeshit about me and VE wanting to lynch Grush for being useless in PTP3? Didn't you try to get VE lynched for it? Awkward... | ||
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On October 05 2012 04:30 strongandbig wrote: three differences: 1. I don't actively hate grush. I'm admitting that emotion is involved here. 2. I also think Drazerk is scum, because of the circular reasoning thing I've talked about before, and because of the way he was flipping his vote around day 1. 3. I'm not saying "we should be lynching drazerk right now instead of scumhunting other people," which was my problem with VE's policy lynch on grush. If you notice, my vote isn't even on drazerk right now. I just think we should be aware that he's not trying to help town and I think he should die for it. The fact is, you accused VE of being scummy for it on multiple occasions, and called it completely scummy to try and kill someone just for being bad or being someone you dislike playing with. Now you're pushing Draz for the same reason. By your own logic, it's scum behavior, so we should lynch you for it... Or, in your own words... + Show Spoiler [PTP3 Quote] + On August 21 2012 07:04 strongandbig wrote: ............................................... are you serious right now? you'd rather policy lynch grush? you know we do have actual discussion of scum candidates going on right now, even if the cases aren't great neither are the responses so there's plenty of ground for a real lynch and almost certainly like a million vigs in this game and you want to policy lynch grush?????? are you serious right now? scuuuuuum claaaaaaaaaim http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359357¤tpage=23#452 Make sure you check the whole filter, maybe with "All, Ctrl+F, grush". Meta is a bitch. | ||
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On October 05 2012 04:45 strongandbig wrote: Are you completely ignoring what I just said about "not trying to get us to policy lynch drazerk" and "how I'm voting nisani instead of him right now"? Please explain to me how I'm pushing the scum agenda of "getting people complacent about a policy lynch" when I'm also re-bringing-up some evidence for why he's scum, as well as I'm voting for one of the other two lynch candidates and saying we should scumhunt at people other than drazerk as well as him? None of that are things that VE and you were doing with the grush thing. You were just saying "grush is bad let's kill him." That's different. The fact that you're trying to push something you've called scummy, while your vote is entirely elsewhere, just suggests you might not be concerned with where the lynch lands. There's two sides to every coin, things can look scummy or not. And yes, I'm choosing to see scummy. Your point? You going to keep using a mixture of insults and QQ to try and change people's votes? | ||
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On October 05 2012 04:47 strongandbig wrote: 3. you're scum. Fixed that for you. | ||
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On October 05 2012 05:19 Keirathi wrote: Yea, you're right. I think you either have to be an idiot or scum to want to lynch a claimed KP-reduction role, especially if what he says is true about ATLAS-Pbody interactions. He's basically a double-shot medic every night until he eats enough KP to die. If he's still alive in a couple of days, then maybe you have a case. Right now, all I see are two people hard pushing to get a claimed blue role lynched. Which, as I well know, is something that scum JingleHell would do. Uhm, if you mean Newbie XVIII, wasn't that a fakeclaim, and rather blatant? Oh yeah, it was. As was discussed, there's plenty of reasons not to trust the claim, and to think he's scummy, so I think you're an idiot or scum to be so absolutist. Besides, who wanted consolidation D1? Nisani seems too easy. Nobody is interested in my scum reads yet, I can at least understand a vote for SNB, so I consolidated. Make up your fucking mind. Or did consolidate mean "Do what I fucking tell you"? Of course, yesterday you were SO right about perfection... | ||
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On October 05 2012 05:50 Keirathi wrote: You're right, he was fake-claiming. AS A TOWNIE. And you, as scum, knew that he was town and pushed the lynch. This feels an awful lot the same. Maybe you could explain your read on Nisani a bit then? Considering the only time you've even mentioned him in your entire filter is when you said "I'd rather see SNB than Nisani" as you consolidated onto him. And I would argue that this is the exact opposite of an "easy" lynch. Its 6 votes to 4. That's a pretty polarized town. Uhm, the point, Keirathi, is that the dead townie in XVIII happened because he blatantly fakeclaimed. Just because I've succesefully done it once as scum (hey, by the way, earlier this game wasn't I suspicious for NOT being aggressive and leadery, you hypocritical little scum who really didn't want perfection dead yesterday?) doesn't mean I'm doing it now. It worked then because he was scummy, and scum usually push mislynches based on scummy stuff. Scummy stuff is also why we lynch scum. Unless you think we should NOT lynch people who act scummy? That might confuse them... And when I say "Too easy" I mean it's too simple of a target. He's easy to push in a way that he doesn't feel particularly scummy. I actually referenced him another time without using his name, when I said I don't tend to think that people whose activity level is down near the "almost modkilled" level are automatically scummy lurkers. | ||
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On October 05 2012 05:53 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: Also, its funny that you mention iamperfection. Because, despite getting lynched, you didn't offer a single opinion on him at all. Literally not one. I may have been wrong, but at least I wasn't afraid of being wrong. You just ignored him completely. Yeah, I was busy pushing other people, kind of like you were, but I wasn't trying to make someone else look like a better target than perfection. Who knows, maybe I've been wrong about Gonzaw, and he really was just wrong place/wrong time, and you're the guy I should be focusing into the dirt. | ||
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On October 05 2012 06:05 Keirathi wrote: OR maybe you should just stop and use your brain for a second. Lead by example or drop the personal attacks. | ||
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On October 05 2012 11:52 Keirathi wrote: What about Matt? He's the only person you didn't mention across those 2 posts, although you have said since n1 that you believe him to be town. So your list is: Town: strongandbig HiroPro Keirathi ghost_403 JingleHell austinmcc Crossfire99 gonzaw Maybe: Drazerk ??: Mattchew That seems...pretty unlikely? I think he overdid the whole effort to stay alive by trying to ingratiate himself by calling people town. | ||
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Cry me a river, scum. | ||
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I'm really tired of reminding you that my case against you is to convince others, not you. Don't get all pissy about me getting sick of you talking shit while you try to run roughshod over the town. You're scum, and I've already laid it out for everyone. | ||
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The fact that a now death confirmed townie suspected you shouldn't be part of your defense. You're scum, I've pointed to tons of scummy behavior throughout the game. Just because the rest of the town is letting you run roughshod over them doesn't mean I'm going to, if you want to find the shit, go look for yourself. It's not particularly hard. | ||
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On October 05 2012 13:27 gonzaw wrote: Also, I don't get why people get so angry at me when they FoS me :/ (at least when I'm town) Really? On October 01 2012 07:14 gonzaw wrote: Try not to be such an asshole Jingle, it's just freaking D1. I'm having mixed feelings about you. I don't know if this aggressive "I don't care" behaviour of yours is a ruse or if it's legit, but it's confusing me a little bit (i.e I don't know if you'd react like that as scum). I'm not asking people to bandwagon you, and asking for opinions and stances. If it makes you feel any better though: ##Unvote: JingleHell Jingle, what do you think of Mementos' 1st post about Keriathi and austin and his behaviour this game? I wouldn't mind shifting discussion towards Mementos, ghost, S&B and maybe Nisani. Hell S&B did absolutely nothing so far, maybe Drazerk is onto something. P.S: Also Jingle, are you seriously saying you won't accuse anybody so they don't accuse you of OMGUSing back? Are you willing to accuse any of those people you mentioned just out of spite or because you seriously think they could be scum? Don't start acting like the world is against you when you only have 2 votes and it's 24 hours into D1. On October 02 2012 08:45 gonzaw wrote: Town...you impress me Jingle is town, but he's bad. Bolded bad. Chill out, don't OMGUS, pay attention and don't get all cocky and arrogant and spam the thread with those defenses of yours. The way you argued and interacted with people and the way you kept "shitting things up" even though it was obvious you should have stopped doing that as scum makes me think there's a chance you can be town, so take that chance and try to play better. You start a fight, throwing insults around, and now you pop off saying you don't get mad about being suspected? So the insults and whatnot were part of your scum plan, right? Discredit the main guy pushing you, and try to push for emotional reactions? Since you weren't mad, I mean. That about it? | ||
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On October 05 2012 13:38 gonzaw wrote: /facepalm Okay, answer me this then: Why are you under the assumption that you are trying to "convince others" I'm scum when it obviously failed and you actually got suspicion on yourself from many players (like Mattchew and Crossfire, and maybe someone else)? Of course again counting the fact that you are not trying to convince anybody I'm scum You just quote stuff I do and point out "lol obvs scum". You don't seem to try and convince anybody. Have you asked Mattchew why he thinks I'm town, argued against his points and try to convince him I'm scum? No Have you argued against any of those points austin made in his gigantic post about why I'm town and try to convince him I'm scum? No >repeat for everybody that thinks I'm town Actually, yes, I did try to debate this, even with your specific example, and he wasn't interested in listening. Another thing you've managed to miss since you weren't worried about the thread? I'd instantly label you as scum in any game....but again I had that gut feeling you were just that bad of a townie and got into a tunneling vision you can't get out of and you can't take a step back and think twice about it. My gut feeling seems wrong in all these games though, so I could ignore it this time to lynch your ass if you don't start giving answers. P.S: I'll try this to be the last post in direct response to Jingle to not shit up the thread. Jingle I already posted what I needed to post, and all you guys can see it, so put your thoughts/pressure Jingle/etc. If I keep posting surely Jingle will keep insulting me and not doing anything. Trying to make this into me starting shit is utterly ludicrous. I'm "tunneling" (which is why I'm looking at other targets too, I suppose, asking what their townie motive for shit is?) you because I see you as scum. You started picking a fight because I wouldn't back down, and now you actually accuse ME of starting shit, and threaten to get me lynched on it, in a post where you QUOTE me demonstrating you starting the shit? If the town doesn't see it from that, they won't see it from any other effort either. | ||
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in a post where you QUOTE me demonstrating you starting the shit? is actually rescinded. Because despite your best efforts to show something otherwise, I want you lynched for what you HAVE done, not for what you haven't. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 05 2012 13:49 gonzaw wrote: Please make points about me being scum that don't have anything to do with you or "starting fights" with you or "insulting" you or discrediting you or "misinterpreting" you. I won't ask you again. You're threatening to make a case because I'm theoretically doing those things to you, irony much? If anyone who isn't you asked me, I might even put together a cute, carefully formatted case, but you can bet your ass I'll include all of the evidence, whether you like it or not. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 05 2012 13:58 Keirathi wrote: I have to admit JH, you aren't doing a good job of trying to convince the rest of the town that gonzaw is scum. Right now, I feel like you're both shitting up the thread and both of you are looking scummy for it. Would you prefer to see a "pretty" case against him? And now for the real question. Will you ACTUALLY read it objectively, or would I be wasting my time? Fact, gonzaw's little "get u lynched scrub" threats don't scare me, I'm town, an all-in probably favors us. So if someone else wants it and actually plans to read it and consider it, I'll post a "proper" case. If it's just going to get dismissed out of hand, can you blame me for not wanting to waste a pisston of time? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 01 2012 05:19 gonzaw wrote: I'm more concerned with JingleHell at the moment: This was his first post. After this I assumed he'd come with walls of text quoting everybody, asking everybody questions and trying to actively find scum. What he actually did was disappear, then come out of nowhere to park a barely-justified vote on Drazerk and disappear again. The contrast between his initial "eagerness" to catch scum and his actual behaviour is very scummy. Again, also considering the fact that he doesn't seem to care about his read on Drazerk since he immediately disappeared later instead of trying to reason his read with others or with Drazerk himself. Players that vote just for the sake of voting (and not for the sake of trying to figure out someone else's alignment) are either ultra bored/busy townies or scum. I see no indication of JingleHell being bored because of his 1st post, nor any indication of him being busy (again, because of his 1st post as well and the lack of explanation from him), so I'm going with the 3rd option here: ##Vote: JingleHell P.S: I can't be arsed to check austin/Mementos/s&b/hiro and all those people right now. Ok, let's get this out of the way first. He accuses me of not doing shit, when he hadn't done shit at this point, and of a bad vote. The reasoning for my vote was pretty much covered after that. Of course, he still remembers my suspicion of him as being purely an OMGUS. (Hey, I've got the perfect scum plan now, accuse everybody in post number 1, then just scream OMGUS any time someone says anything against you...) Of course, he tried to head off any response by admitting he was calling me scummy for behavior similar to his own... On October 01 2012 05:20 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: Also, I hope nobody will have the nerve of calling me hypocrite and vote me because of "me doing the same thing JingleHell is doing" or some shit like that. I'm going to study for my test, but I'll be around, so I'll answer any questions you guys have and try to be here and not just disappear. Here, he begins smearing me, suggesting the only options are "bad" and "scum". On October 01 2012 06:03 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: JIngle, I get the feeling you are voting Drazerk and accusing him just so you can justify doing something in this game. I don't get the feeling you are trying to figure out his alignment and convince yourself he is scum, nor I get the feeling you want to convince us he is scum so we can lynch him. I just see you lurk, then come out of lurking to park your vote using a half-assed justification for it and then going back to lurking. Like I said, I can only see bored/trollish/busy townies doing that (although even busy townies would try to do something else to push their read), and I don't see you being any of them. You are too serious and "eager to catch scum" to be a bored or trollish townie (for instance I could see Nisani being a bored townie, at least at this point in the game), and again there's no indication you are busy (and again even if you were I doubt you'd act like you did). So where does that leave you? As scum unfortunately, unless someone can figure out some town motivation for Jingle's behaviour. Absolutes like that are completely stupid. On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote: Okay, answer me this then: 1)How do you stand in respect to Drazerk? Do you agree with Nisani/Jingle/etc about his scummy behaviour or do you think he's town or are you not sure? 2)Same about JingleHell. Do you agree with what I said about him or not? Or do you think it's not enough to judge his alignment, and if so why? 3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment? I'm more interested in your thought process at the moment rather than what you actually think (I want to know if you are legitimately trying to build your reads or you are scum trying to skate by without doing anything) Of course, Gonzaw does the same shit he's picking on Keirathi for. Oh, and here's another accusation. Keirathi, might as well not make a case, he'll just write it off as OMGUS and call you bad town. On October 01 2012 06:45 gonzaw wrote: What about my other points? That Jingle comes out to post just to "appear he's contributing" and "justify himself" and seems less interested about his actual read and convincing people of it? Hmm, I'll wait on the contributions of other people before doing anything else. I'd really like Mementos to tell us if his austin thing is getting anywhere and if he has anything else to say. This one actually seems to directly contradict itself, accusing me of appearance of contribution, not worried about convincing people of my read... oh but he wants the contributions of others. On October 01 2012 07:14 gonzaw wrote: Try not to be such an asshole Jingle, it's just freaking D1. I'm having mixed feelings about you. I don't know if this aggressive "I don't care" behaviour of yours is a ruse or if it's legit, but it's confusing me a little bit (i.e I don't know if you'd react like that as scum). I'm not asking people to bandwagon you, and asking for opinions and stances. If it makes you feel any better though: ##Unvote: JingleHell Jingle, what do you think of Mementos' 1st post about Keriathi and austin and his behaviour this game? I wouldn't mind shifting discussion towards Mementos, ghost, S&B and maybe Nisani. Hell S&B did absolutely nothing so far, maybe Drazerk is onto something. P.S: Also Jingle, are you seriously saying you won't accuse anybody so they don't accuse you of OMGUSing back? Are you willing to accuse any of those people you mentioned just out of spite or because you seriously think they could be scum? Don't start acting like the world is against you when you only have 2 votes and it's 24 hours into D1. Remember this one, since his favorite defense is that I'm OMGUSing him. Oh, and more of that talking shit and smearing. On October 01 2012 08:47 gonzaw wrote: Mementos, any thoughts on JingleHell and others? (like ghost for instance)? There's a severe lack of information going on. I'm also severely worried/disappointed in s&b. Does he act like this when he is scum? (i.e never post anything) Yet another post of Gonzaw wanting other people's opinions to jump on board with. It's a recurring theme. On October 01 2012 10:44 gonzaw wrote: So....hello, anybody? austin, why aren't you making those fluffy walls of text you make when you are town? Why does it seem nobody cares? Damn, what a boring game :/ If this keeps up like this I'll most likely vote S&B, or ghost (if he wasn't intentionally trolling), or Jingle (if I make up my mind about him) or Mementos/Nisani/austin/iamperfection (I have "weird" feelings about all of them but there so little to go on that I can't know for sure). Yeah, not incredibly useful, but oh well... Hmmm, whole fucking thread is scummy... On October 01 2012 15:38 gonzaw wrote: Just in case I miss it I'll make a placeholder vote on iamperfection: ##Vote: iamperfection I don't have a strong read on him at all, but after rereading it's the strongest one I have. None of his posts seemed to contribute at all, and even his ghost vote seemed "easy" to latch on. He doesn't have anything else to go on, so it's a safe bet I think. Soft bus, possibly? He did unvote so he could move his "placeholder" vote once perfection had votes... if it's really a placeholder on either person why would you move it when one of them gets momentum? Awkward. On October 01 2012 23:44 gonzaw wrote: Yeah but ghost is not Palmar. We all know how scum Palmar works, and that's a thing a scum Palmar would do. Is it a thing scum ghost would do? (well, to be honest I don't remember him in any games where he was scum though) Hmm, okay people, what do you guys think about lynching one of these guys: JingleHell Mementos Nisani CrossFire austin iamperfection And if you'd switch to one of them, why would you do it? Like I said before I have that same "weird" feeling about them, but again it seems none of them other than Mementos decided to show up to contribute at all. It wouldn't bother me too much since it's D1, but we are getting too close to the lynch deadline and we have to choose a lynch. We have like 0 information on the table, so it's VERY likely this lynch will be a misslynch, specially if there's some incognito scum in the group of Mementos/Hiro/Keirathi/(me lol)/etc that are driving discussion. But fuck what else can we do, right? I'm leaving in like 20 minutes and wondering if I should put my placeholder (or basically lynch vote) onto someone else. I'm gonna eat now....so convince me people Another list of half the thread as possible scum... On October 01 2012 23:58 gonzaw wrote: ##Unvote: iamperfection ##Vote: JingleHell I don't really buy that "the world is against me" attitude and I haven't seen any contribution from him other than his scummy read on Drazerk (maybe his unvote is not that scummy, but it's the only thing I can go on). Take into account that's a rash vote/placeholder, but oh well. So long people! Here's that change from one placeholder (who flipped scum) to another one. Me. A guy who thinks he's scum. On October 02 2012 08:45 gonzaw wrote: Town...you impress me Jingle is town, but he's bad. Bolded bad. Chill out, don't OMGUS, pay attention and don't get all cocky and arrogant and spam the thread with those defenses of yours. The way you argued and interacted with people and the way you kept "shitting things up" even though it was obvious you should have stopped doing that as scum makes me think there's a chance you can be town, so take that chance and try to play better. ghost and Nisani are likely scum I think, Mementos and Crossfire are there too. ghost/Nisani/Mementos/Crossfire/Drazerk I think all remaining scum are in there Talking shit, fairly random change of opinion about Draz, who he formerly thought wasn't scum, who really wasn't doing much that could be more than a null tell, yet again accusing half the thread. (Oops, like I said, if we suspect him, must be an OMGUS!) On October 02 2012 10:34 gonzaw wrote: @S&B: Dude, start posting NOW or I'll do everything in my power to kill you. If I can ever be justified in tunneling the hell out of you in any game we play together it's in this one. You only have 7 freaking posts, 4 of them having less than 3 lines. Hmmm. He spent the entire next day on Nisani, IIRC? On October 03 2012 11:08 gonzaw wrote: Night Kill Speculation: Well, let's just first assume it was a scum kill. Seems that scum were scared they couldn't actively push Mementos because of his "town cred" of voting iamperfection first and sticking with his vote. Sadly, he then says: On October 03 2012 11:38 gonzaw wrote: Scum Speculation: Well, thank you scum for shooting a suspect instead of, let's say, Hiro or Keirathi or austin. Huh? That makes a lot of sense... I'm actually starting to get a headache. I'll come back to this either later tonight or tomorrow morning. That should be a good start to chew on, while glossing over a lot of the more personal reasons he's given me to enjoy watching him flip red. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
I'm sure you'll understand if I just completely ignore his "defense" of part 1 that mostly consists of him continuing to dismiss the case without actually defending shit, which I kinda expected anyways, hence why I waited until someone besides him asked for it. On October 03 2012 11:42 gonzaw wrote: Jingle, I just want you to answer me this: You are willing to entertain the idea that 2 of the most active players, and most contributors (in a way) are scum but you won't entertain the idea that guys that didn't do shit on D1 or N1, where never around, didn't care about discussion or the lynch at all, and the only contribution they had was 1 post with a "list" of reads that were full of fluff aren't? Entertain the idea please, at least so you pay attention to them. If you think they are town and me or austin scum then please state so This was one of those non-defenses... implying active people can't be scum, and people who just post huge lists probably are. I know it's been a few posts since Part 1, but hopefully we all remember plenty of examples of Gonzaw just posting huge lists? + Show Spoiler [Rolefishing] + On October 03 2012 12:35 gonzaw wrote: There wasn't a lightning rod in the last Aperture Mafia game...? Do you at least have evidence of there being a lightning rod in any game of mafia? It doesn't make much sense, who used it? Scum? Then they can't use any abilities on anybody and can only use them on the guy they kill. Town? Then they can tunnel all scum actions into anybody of his choice. He's basically a vig that saves all scum KP and abilities the same night he makes a shot, and that's unbalanced as hell 3rd party? That's the only possibility I can see but it still seems like a stretch Is there anything in particular why you mentioned that? What makes you think there could be a lightning rod? Aren't all KP/actions accounted for? Or is it because apparently Mementos didn't jail anybody? (Nisani, S&B and I think Crossfire have yet to claim though) On October 03 2012 13:06 gonzaw wrote: If there is one and he's town he should claim, because if not he'll fuck any analysis that can be made from night actions (both kill and made by blues). Doubt he exists anyway. Drazerk, what do you think about what happened these past few hours? Do you agree with Jingle+Keirathi, or maybe with me, or with neither of us? On October 04 2012 02:56 gonzaw wrote: Fuck I hate it when people do this. Now i have to wonder all game whether this is true or if you are scum that just took the chance to claim made a night action to misdirect people. How is the player list swapping important even if we know who Mementos jailed? Maybe I'm not understanding it fully though On October 05 2012 00:16 gonzaw wrote: Hmm, that's interesting, S&B could be 3rd party alright. However there wasn't any additional KP last night, so we can assume if there's a 3rd party it's not a SK kind of role right? Maybe it's more of a survivor, or like someone said a lyncher (and he has to get Drazerk lynched for instance). I wanted to see if someone claimed JKed or shot because of this as well, to see if there are additional KPs flying around. If the 3rd party has no KP, shouldn't we focus on killing scum that have KP? Hmm, I'm kind of torn about it, but it does seem like Nisani scum and S&B 3rd party are possible. I just can't comprehend S&B's play this game. Anyways, Jingle and Keirathi, you guys have effectively spend all D2 FoSing me and nothing else, and right now you are wasting your votes and not contributing at all. Wtf dudes? On October 05 2012 01:25 gonzaw wrote: Hmm, if P-BODY claims it could go on to basically confirm both of you as town (or really bold 3rd parties), or at least put both of you into the spotlight and see if your actions at night confirm you both (if for instance you "save" another shot). Who was your target that was shot? I don't see any reason to not claim since scum would shoot him anyways, and it may semi-confirm him as town as well (unless he was shot by a SK-type role). When P-BODY targets player X and you target player Y, then it means both you and P-Body target both X and Y at the same time? Or did I get that wrong? Another thing: If scum shoot you directly, do you take a hit to your "extra lives" as well? Or do you die instantly? Hmm, well, I don't see why we shouldn't lynch Nisani today, unless in a weird state of events he claims P-Body (but I heavily doubt it). Also, again like always I'm leaving to uni until after the deadline (cue Jingle FoSing me again). I'm leaving in about 1 hour or so. On October 05 2012 01:42 gonzaw wrote: If P-Body claims then he couldn't have made up that stuff. That's like the easiest way to see if his claim is legit or not (P-Body should have a similar claim) On October 05 2012 01:51 gonzaw wrote: If someone claims P-Body it confirms both your roles. It means you weren't lying your ass out there when you are in fact "Aperture Turret Nº 2" or something like that. It proves you are ATLAS and it proves the other guy is P-BODY (and if you are both scum making a gambit, surely another ALTAS/P-BODY can claim or you'd get found out very easily) That's a lot of information that helps town tremendously, and it also puts a lot of pressure on both of you (so you keep your promises with night actions and stuff, and you keep up contributions and shit) to help us figure out your real alignments. On October 05 2012 01:53 gonzaw wrote: Yeah, because GlaDOS could obviously be town. You may have been given a fake-claim as scum, it's a possibility; but if you are scum I want you to take the chance and expose yourself (even then there may be inconsistencies with what you claim and your own abilities. For instance if you claim "Companion Cube" I couldn't possibly believe you would be a vig, so we lynch you) Give us your role name Ok, I think I've made this particular point? Speaks for itself, but even I have to admit that this sort of evidence is barely damning in and of itself. On October 05 2012 12:05 gonzaw wrote: Yes, that's what I see now, which is why this game is giving me a headache right now. No, Mattchew is most likely town and I don't doubt that....at least for now. If I have to make a quick response about "who's scum" I'd have to say one of these: Hiro-ghost-Drazerk-Jingle But I'm not in the mood right now to start completely changing my reads on them. Being in this situation also makes me doubt the other players still (Mattchew, austin and Crossfire). Again, the "easiest" answer I can give you without having to drastically change my point of view is "Drazerk" and maybe "Jingle" (because honestly he's the easiest one I can FoS and just say "maybe he's that reckless as scum anyway" and brush it off). I have to reread filters though, I can't answer anything seriously until I do. Hopefully tomorrow I have time and go to uni later in the day and not so early. Semi-randomly suggesting which of his earlier town reads he'd throw out. Since he's suddenly running out of people he thought were scummy. Maybe he tried to hard to look town by calling people town? On October 05 2012 13:13 gonzaw wrote: How about we lynch you until you make that case? Does that sound good? Remember how hard he was trying to force me making a case? You'd think he'd have more responses than "That doesn't make sense" and "You're just too shit to get it, and that's advice, not an insult" and "OMGUS". Ok, so we're pretty caught up now. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
Make sure to read all of both parts, and check his filter for yourselves, there's so much shit in there I'm almost sure I missed stuff. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 03:33 austinmcc wrote: Okay. I think it's an awful idea to lynch one of them just in case they're taking that big a risk, but I see where you're coming from with that. Ask me after the daypost, assuming we're alive, what possible scum motive I see for lynching to confirm the roles now, rather than just holding onto the knowledge and treating them as confirmed until given a reason to do otherwise. Discussing it at night would have severe anti-town potential. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
Usually, providing a LOT of raw data increases the chances of some of that data not going the direction you want. Thus, it's more fair-minded, and demonstrates that I'm not just basing my assumptions off of one or two things that, on their own, would be tiny. Just because a lot of the individual shreds of it are small, doesn't mean they don't add up to a lot. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 05 2012 13:13 gonzaw wrote: How about we lynch you until you make that case? Does that sound good? On October 05 2012 13:14 gonzaw wrote: Hell, if I'm so "obvious" scum it should be easy as hell for you to make that case on me. If I'm scum I'm basically begging you to catch me, convince everybody I'm scum and get me lynched. So why aren't you taking that chance? Don't you want other guys like austin/Crossfire/etc who think I'm town to realize what a scummy monster I am? On October 05 2012 13:18 gonzaw wrote: If you are town, make a case against me. It's what any sane townie would do in your situation (I'm "obvious scum" to you and town desperately needs a scum lynch on D3). If you don't I'll try to get you lynched for it, it's as easy as that (to either motivate you to stop fucking around if you are town or to just get you lynched if you are scum). Okay, that's as far as I'll go getting aggressive here, I'm past that point in my mafia career, no need to get all pissy about it. On October 06 2012 03:56 gonzaw wrote: I'm currently reading filters, but I'll answer some questions (I won't answer Jingle's 2nd case since I don't think there's anything to respond to): Seriously, after all that harassment, to summarily dismiss the case (Which you did with most of the first part too, in case you'd forgotten) is completely pathetic, and doesn't exactly come off very convincing. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:07 gonzaw wrote: You "ignored" my defense and completely dismissed it without any good reason and your 2nd case has nothing damning at all. + Show Spoiler [defense] + This was one of those non-defenses... implying active people can't be scum, and people who just post huge lists probably are. I know it's been a few posts since Part 1, but hopefully we all remember plenty of examples of Gonzaw just posting huge lists? Not alignment-indicative Speaks for itself, but even I have to admit that this sort of evidence is barely damning in and of itself. Not alignment-indicative, even you admit it is not. Semi-randomly suggesting which of his earlier town reads he'd throw out. Since he's suddenly running out of people he thought were scummy. Maybe he tried to hard to look town by calling people town? Confirmation bias Remember how hard he was trying to force me making a case? You'd think he'd have more responses than "That doesn't make sense" and "You're just too shit to get it, and that's advice, not an insult" and "OMGUS". Ok, so we're pretty caught up now. Irrelevant, not alignment-indicative I don't see anything I did wrong. In fact I should be actually calling you out since I made a perfectly reasonable defense and you straight up ignored it to post a bunch of unrelated stuff and label it a "case" (I won't since that's not really alignment-indicative of you, at least in the context of this game). Do you need me to quote the part of Part 1 where I straight up said I would post the other half later? Or can you find it for yourself when you're not busy dismissing the majority of my points out of hand? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:13 gonzaw wrote: I did not dismiss the case, stop lying. I see you are still convinced I'm scum and won't change your mind no matter anything I do. Let me give you another piece advice: Step back, read filters, preferably read the thread as well and try to analyze the flow of the thread in this game and how I participated in it, with what motivation I did and what I achieved doing so If you still think I'm scum then, well I'll be disappointed but at least I'll be somewhat relieved that you at least tried and are most likely town (if you are scum you wouldn't put that effort at all) and that you at least are trying to win this game for town (whether you are wrong about me or not). Some choice bits from your initial "defense"... you can feel free to explain how they aren't dismissive. I don't get what you are saying here at all. Ehmm...I don't get this part. Those are both dismissals. A lot of other things, you just say things like... It's not "lol Jingle is OMGUSing me that stupid bitch". It's advice. Advice that apparently means I was "starting a fight" with you that I still don't get at this point in time. Still don't get it? That's writing it off, I'm pretty sure anyone who speaks English knows that that sounds hostile. Although again....why does that make me scum? lol no, you only were "paranoid" about me by that point, and you even posted that post after I started working on mine There's very much an inherent dismissal in those comments. There's very little "Here's how you misunderstood me" and a whole lot of "Yeah whatever" in your "defense". The second part, you completely and literally refused to respond to. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:26 strongandbig wrote: jinglehell you're far and away more hostile than he is, why are you attacking him for being hostile? Want the link to him starting it? It was in the case, but I kind of expected everyone to ignore it, since they want to sheep the scum.... | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:36 strongandbig wrote: what are you, seven? and am i your dad? idgaf who started it, you are being way more aggro than he is right now. What are you, stupid? And am I your teacher? The person who starts shit is very relevant if ongoing hostilities are somehow going to be used as a scumtell. He got on his knees and begged for it, just like he begged for the case he ignored. Trying to make me giving him what he wanted worse than him wanting it is hysterical. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 04:41 gonzaw wrote: Jingle, those are not points I'm "dismissing". Those are points I want you to address again since I didn't understand them... ....damn communication is sure failing hard in this game. I had to be a little bit "agressive" in parts because that's how defending against cases works (in trying to convince you how bad your point is for instance). Everybody does it, in every single game, every time, whether town or scum or 3rd party. You can't get butthurt over that No, that's you dismissing them. If you don't understand the points, I can't help you in the slightest. I didn't write it for your benefit anyways, because I knew you'd do exactly that. I wrote it for Keirathi, and everyone else. The people who I need to have voting for you so we can get scum again. If you refuse to read it, refuse to understand it, and refuse to address it, when others seem to at least grasp what I'm saying even when they disagree, it's no harm to me. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 05:07 Mattchew wrote: I hate when people play the woe is me I think imma stop playing mafia defense as town or scum... It's terrible and makes me feel bad Aren't you one of the ones who's wanted input on cases made from me? Karma. Input, please. On both parts, preferably. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 05:15 Keirathi wrote: No you didn't? I don't see you claiming the shot anywhere before that. IIRC he did mention a night action before then, but he also said it went through and that was all he was saying. Was ambiguous the first time. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 05:17 Keirathi wrote: Wat. S&B was the one who claimed his ambiguous night action went through. Which is the post I quoted. It was 24 hours later before Drazak claimed that it was a shot on S&B. Ah. Fair enough. Hard to keep their posts this game separate sometimes. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 05 2012 13:49 gonzaw wrote: Please make points about me being scum that don't have anything to do with you or "starting fights" with you or "insulting" you or discrediting you or "misinterpreting" you. I won't ask you again. On October 06 2012 03:56 gonzaw wrote: Anyways, I guess I'm kind of angry at you because I know my own intentions that I had in my posts and I know you are heavily misinterpreting them. Huh, I guess that's the problem with playing in text-form. On October 06 2012 05:33 gonzaw wrote: ...is this post serious? Do I really have to point out all the stuff you misinterpreted or got wrong? If you don't like other people talking about being misinterpreted, why is it turning into your default response after saying that? Funny thing, you were threatening to get me lynched at the time for being so scummy as to make a case involving you misinterpreting me... So now you're doing something you personally implied heavily was scummy behavior. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 06 2012 05:50 gonzaw wrote: Who is talking about being misinterpreted? What "scummy behaviour"? I'm not "misinterpreting" ghost, he's misinterpreting me (quite badly). Seriously Jingle I just don't get some of your posts or why you even bother posting them. Are you seriously just sitting on your chair, gluing your face to the monitor waiting for me to make any post at all to completely dissect and post how it's scummy? When I'm able to be at my computer, yes, I keep a close eye on the game. Is activity a problem? You act like I only respond to you. You're one of the people who posts frequently, and you're scummy as fuck, so yes, I do respond pointing out the scummy things you do a lot, but acting like I ignore the rest of the game is absurd. And frankly, you really need to stop reacting, especially since you've spent so much time harping about my "bad town" play. You were threatening me, saying I should stop saying you misinterpreted me. Since making that post, saying that you're being misinterpreted is becoming a frequent "defense". You were acting like I was being scummy, hence the threats. This implies that you doing it would, by your logic, also be scummy. I'd rather not reiterate this constantly, so actually try to understand it. There's a first time for everything. | ||
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Now, obviously, obligatory comment on how this actually increases the numerical chances of gonzaw being some sort of scum. Despite that, I find myself having to be objective here... he's not been nuts about talking about third party unless someone else brought it up, and that makes me think that if he's scum, he's normal scum, and odds are, we can look for our Black Mesa types within the people who kept having their posts and accusations drift that direction. We all know that foreknowledge can color play, so I'm inclined to think the Black team has at least one person who keeps referencing that. Possibly to include Draz, although his play smells like vengeful or village idiot. It's like he wants to get a vigi hit on him. I really doubt, just from a flavor perspective, that Atlas and P-Body would be on the Black Mesa team. Thematics here. Gordon Freeman isn't a Portal local, the cooperative testing initiative is. It wouldn't make sense for them to be the same team. It's still possible we have something screwy going on with Keir/SNB, but given that they're at least claimed, I'm comfortable leaving them alive for now, if shit hit the fan, I'd say we could lynch SNB (After all, if they ARE some sort of screwy multi-factional pair, Keir's roleclaim to save SNB feels townie.) Hiro: Gonzaw's "change of opinion" of me, while possibly scummy in some of his posts, is thoroughly documented, and even I (really WANTING him to flip red, I don't think denying that would get me anywhere) wouldn't be brazen enough to suggest it was just some sudden thing out of nowhere, even if I think some of the posts in the process were scummy. At this point, knowing we have extra scum, I'd have to say my favorite lynch targets would include Gonzaw (surprise), Hiro, Draz. Hiro's so damned innocuous it's starting to make me wonder. (By the way, if this post seems weird for me, blame being tired, having just gotten back from sparring night at TKD which is great for letting out aggression, and being well fed.) Anyways, with the new info, I'm going to have to go back through and look harder. | ||
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On October 06 2012 10:49 HiroPro wrote: That's not what I'm saying. gonzaw indicated that unless you made a "good case" on him, he was going to consider you scum. You made a case, and gonzaw seemed to consider it horrendous. So I was wondering why that made gonzaw think of you as a bad townie, when judging by his previous thoughts, he was going to call you scum if he didn't like the case. Ah. Well, he's scum. It happens. | ||
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On October 06 2012 11:03 gonzaw wrote: Jingle, Hiro, what do you guys think about ghost and what I wrote about him? Don't worry Jingle, even if I'm RS ghost can be BS, so you can actually pay attention to what I say. I think I'd rather kill the antagonistic scum first, so I'll worry about him after you die. | ||
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On October 06 2012 12:10 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: So I take it you don't buy my "there was no momentum on iamperfection so I changed my vote" defense? Why not? Why have you not responded to my defense at all? Yeah, I don't like coming back to that....but shit Jingle, if thinking I'm "obvious scum" stops you from considering anybody else at all and talking about anything else at all there's something wrong. Since your responses never have any bearing on what I said, I don't see a point in arguing in circles with you. Others are starting to see it. Hopefully enough of them will come around in time. | ||
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Anybody who's played with me should know that me pointing to this has nothing to do with my primary case on Gonzaw, and everything to do with the fact that people who suddenly start sounding like they have lynch foreknowledge should die. [QUOTE]On October 07 2012 13:04 gonzaw wrote: [QUOTE]On October 07 2012 12:59 austinmcc wrote: austin, what would you do if Drazerk flips town? Who would you look at?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On October 07 2012 13:09 gonzaw wrote: Meh scratch that question, it's kind of loaded. My main point is: How will you guys react if Drazerk is town? There seems to be no motivation to do anything at all today and everybody just assumes Drazerk will flip scum and that will make this day "worth it". But just like some people on D2, if the flip is town the day is wasted (i.e people come once in the whole day, park their vote and leave, that kind of thing). Does anybody have links to all games where Drazerk was scum, and how he acted in LYLO or before getting lynched in those games?[/QUOTE] That screams like foreknowledge to me. Oh, and the SNB/Keirathi claim protection target thing is stupid too. If they were scum, which I really don't believe at this point, all they'd have to do is not send in an NK and whammo, they're confirmed town, because they saved the NK! So, since it would gain scum two confirmed town, the only plausible use for it is to let scum try a last minute target switch. Gonzaw is still scum, kill him with fire. (Yes there's been a metric fuckton of discussion I semi skimmed, I was out and about or otherwise occupied most of yesterday. If there's something specific from the piles of speculation and ranting you want my input on, please let me know.) | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Ok, so I just woke up. Just read the thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this whole current line started because Gonzaw went "What if Drazerk is town?" Anybody who's played with me should know that me pointing to this has nothing to do with my primary case on Gonzaw, and everything to do with the fact that people who suddenly start sounding like they have lynch foreknowledge should die. On October 07 2012 13:04 gonzaw wrote: austin, what would you do if Drazerk flips town? Who would you look at? On October 07 2012 13:09 gonzaw wrote: Meh scratch that question, it's kind of loaded. My main point is: How will you guys react if Drazerk is town? There seems to be no motivation to do anything at all today and everybody just assumes Drazerk will flip scum and that will make this day "worth it". But just like some people on D2, if the flip is town the day is wasted (i.e people come once in the whole day, park their vote and leave, that kind of thing). Does anybody have links to all games where Drazerk was scum, and how he acted in LYLO or before getting lynched in those games? That screams like foreknowledge to me. Oh, and the SNB/Keirathi claim protection target thing is stupid too. If they were scum, which I really don't believe at this point, all they'd have to do is not send in an NK and whammo, they're confirmed town, because they saved the NK! So, since it would gain scum two confirmed town, the only plausible use for it is to let scum try a last minute target switch. Gonzaw is still scum, kill him with fire. (Yes there's been a metric fuckton of discussion I semi skimmed, I was out and about or otherwise occupied most of yesterday. If there's something specific from the piles of speculation and ranting you want my input on, please let me know.) | ||
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##Vote Gonzaw | ||
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After all, he should be totally cool with the threat of "Explain or get lynched", he threw it at me earlier this game. | ||
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On October 08 2012 01:49 austinmcc wrote: The foreknowledge point is a good pickup. The fishing is there. The momentum stuff on D1 is there. But why do I want the lynch "securely off Draz"? Like...I just watched him get very few votes in a game where he was scum. I fooking chatted with him late while he was active and scum when nobody was around. Aperture 1 he gets caught playing Drazerk-y on D1. PTP3 he gets caught playing Drazerk-y on D1, but snb dies and nobody reads, so he survives. This game, he DOESN'T play Drazerk-y on D1. Why? He says time. Maybe. But he also keeps getting caught D1, and so maybe he suppresses that for a day here and then can't contain it D2? I dunno about that. He also just claims to mess with his meta, so maybe even if he hadn't been getting caught he'd go from Drazerk-y to not? Gah. Nor does stuff like this make me want to unvote: Don't kill me, I'm one of the most active players. Instead, kill Gonzaw, who's been one of the most active players. He's right on mattchew; we're ignoring him. But he's complaining about activity and then calling out a guy who's been very active recently, albeit Gonzaw's activity is sometimes just gratuitous posts that don't help. I'm more nervous about Hiro's invisibility than Mattchew's. Mattchew said he got a HotS invite right before he vanished, Hiro has just said almost nothing memorable all game. That sets off more of my "scum" alarms than anything else. As for why we'd want the lynch off Draz, I want it off him because Gonzaw has done several things recently that can literally ONLY benefit scum (make us look for less scum than there most likely are, act like he expects a townflip off Draz, his SNB+Keir plan that either sets up a block-free shot, or allows SNB+Keir, if they were scum, which I doubt, to withhold a shot and get free confirmed townie status). One of those things suggests Draz might well be town if Gonzaw flips scum. Avoiding a potential mislynch with scum grabbing town cred off the back of it scenario doesn't seem like a bad idea. Especially after how bad me chasing useless people in PTP3 went, I'm trying to chase scummy behavior first. Smacking down trolls/lurkers/etc. has to be a concerted effort with early game policy lynches. | ||
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On October 08 2012 02:26 austinmcc wrote: Those are reasons to want the lynch ON Gonzaw. They're not reasons to want the lynch OFF Drazerk, except that Gonzaw flipping scum could indicate Drazerk is town. Hold on. I just wrote up little hypotheticals about what happens if Drazerk/Gonzaw flip and are town/scum, how it makes the other look. But the "Gonzaw scum = Drazerk town" thing doesn't work. Multiple factions. Gonzaw scum = Drazerk not scum WITH Gonzaw. scumGonzaw can't know that Drazerk is town, just that he's not on Gonzaw's faction. Right? Fair point. But if they ARE both scum, there's one some people listen to, and one they tend not to. I know which one I'd prefer to have dead. Although, given that I just generally want Gonzaw dead (nothing like the combination of scum and talking shit to make me want to lynch him), that may not mean much. | ||
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On October 08 2012 08:02 gonzaw wrote: At least I'm not retarded Or maybe you just knew in advance, which is why you staged that cute little change of heart, and started creating all that "what if" discussion, like I said. | ||
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On October 08 2012 08:05 gonzaw wrote: Stop it. If I'm RS I can't know if he's BS and if I'm BS I can't know if he's RS without a DT check or something Oh, so we tack on even more silly setup speculation, to go with you trying to convince everyone that the OP lists scum factional KP as #scum/2 rounded up purely to troll and disguise the 2 man scumteams. In a non-caller game. So, why did you have the sudden, major change of heart? Because chronologically, you didn't start looking back and convincing yourself he might be town until after you started posting about the possibility. If you were that convinced it was possible he was town, why didn't you unvote until after you did your homework? If you were sufficiently convinced he was scum to not unvote, why did you do the homework? You did it to try and have momentum and towncred coming off the back of what you either knew or suspected would be a mislynch. That's why. And of course, nobody knows whether scum might have rolecops or something. Unless you know, and they don't? Is that it? | ||
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On October 08 2012 08:08 gonzaw wrote: Jingle, why were you here right before the deadline and didn't even try to get me lynched, specially when me/Draz/etc started voting for No-lynch and people started to back off Draz? I was trying most of the day. Don't try and turn this into ME somehow being scummy, when everybody has listened to my reasons and said they still prefer Draz, what was I supposed to do? | ||
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On October 08 2012 08:16 gonzaw wrote: Jingle, I'm tired of you doing this shit to me. Just fucking stop. I hope you are scum this game, I really do; I won't be depressed once the game ends at least. Stop doing what? Trying to lynch scum? How about I keep trying until it works instead? I can't much help it if the town refuses to see it, but your whole "waaah Jingle's a meany head" thing is getting ridiculous. Lynching scum is part of the game. You've been my top scumread the entire game. I push lynching you. That's how it works. If you don't like it, stop acting like scum. | ||
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On October 08 2012 08:20 gonzaw wrote: I made an analysis about how you are likely town which means I'M NOT ACCUSING YOU STOP OVERREACTING GODDAMIT It's something odd I noticed and wanted addressed. You know, Keirathi once unvoted Draz, austin once said he'd vote for either me or Draz, there was quite a span of time where you could have used the momentum to lynch me. Considering your behaviour I know you would have tried (although you would have been unsuccessful I suppose). You haven't really tried to get me lynched D3 that much. At the risk of sounding repetitive... how many times are people going to ignore him saying shit that makes it sound like he skipped 80% of the thread? | ||
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On October 07 2012 09:29 gonzaw wrote: How about because I'm the Black Scum perhaps? I dunno ghost, read the fricking thread please. That was part of you making a case against him. I did, in fact, make an effort to get you lynched, I just gave up when pretty much everyone said they preferred Draz over you. Sure, I could have cluttered the ever-loving hell out of the thread, but that wouldn't have done much good, the majority of the complaints about my case on you involve presentation. | ||
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On October 08 2012 08:33 gonzaw wrote: When did you start being active? As in, when did you come back to the thread? Right before the deadline or before? I've been watching it on and off all day. Granted, when Draz started going roleclaim crazy, I knew there had suddenly stopped being even the slightest point in trying to convince people, but most of the morning, I was doing what I could to push you. Which is about the polar opposite of what you're saying I did. | ||
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On October 08 2012 12:48 gonzaw wrote: That's a bad reason for thinking I'm scum. Complaining Jingle only does against me: because it's the only thing he does and it's anti-town as fuck Complaining that Jingle doesn't go against me when he had the chance to: because since it's the only thing he does, and if I assume he's tunneling townie, then that's what he would have done, so him not doing it is odd. What would be the correct thing to do for Jingle that I wouldn't complain?: Take a step back, stop assuming I'm scum, try to get other people's reasoning instead of just trying to get people to lynch me, maybe even read past games of mine and compare my attitude in them, stop bitching against me and cool down, and contribute about other players and try to find scum in them as well. When Jingle starts doing that, or just part of that, you won't see me complain at all. Hiro, what do you think of austin? Good, you answered him before I went to bed. I didn't want to post in between, because I wanted to see how you'd respond without me diving in there. Still martyr-ish, and kinda flies in the face of a recent one. On October 08 2012 08:20 gonzaw wrote: I made an analysis about how you are likely town which means I'M NOT ACCUSING YOU STOP OVERREACTING GODDAMIT I think I've done a better job of explaining why I think you're scum, even if my presentation hasn't been amazing, than you have of responding to it. You have yet to answer the majority of my complaints. Most of them get ignored, shit-talked, or contradictory responses. Or your classic "Jingle so mean to me". So, when did you go from not accusing me and wanting to ignore my tunneling, to thinking it's scummy? I assume it's got everything to do with what different people have to say. My case against you may be largely made up of things that are open to interpretation, but that doesn't mean it's inherently a bad case. There's very little hard evidence in Mafia, and enough circumstantial evidence should eventually be pretty damning. | ||
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On October 08 2012 13:08 gonzaw wrote: I'll admit not everything you say is "bad", but most of it, or at least what I notice whenever I see your posts is. If it's the stuff about iamperfection, or being "wishy-washy" on D1, or "blue-fishing", yes they are not "completely stupid points", but I explained myself on them. Whenever I start doubting my reads I always start thinking "Jingle's actions could come from scum", and of course you tunneling me like that easily makes me think you can be scum, and then I start to doubt you. If all the guys I think are scum flip town, then I have no choice but to rethink my stance on you. I really want to see you contributing about other players. So far I think you only made like 1 post in the past 72 hours or so about some people you thought could be scum and other than "Draz seems like a VI" or "Hiro is innocuous" I don't see you posting thoughts or reads on anybody at all. That's what makes me doubt my read on you most of the time I think I respond to all of yours. Unless it's those snarky comments you make some times after I make a post which I don't see the point in responding to other than saying "that's wrong". Relevant part of D2, my vote was SNB (even after the claim, due to being out.) I've contributed reads and discussion about loads of people, and amended them over time. The fact is, I can't even begin to imagine a town motivation for how much of what I do you've ignored, merely on the premise of you being my primary target. I've gotten into heated debates with most of the people in the game about posts of theirs that came off scummy. I've voted other people besides you on multiple occasions. I've amended reads based on discussion, and listened to reason. The fact is, regardless of how poor a job I've done lending credence to it, you're the only person who's consistently come off as more scummy than not throughout the course of the game. The fact is, you can say what you like about it, but, deliberate or not, you're ignoring a lot of my play this game. Your opinion of me changes almost every time you post talking about me, frequently depending on who's active in the thread. | ||
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Keirathi, Austin, basically anyone else, can you confirm for the guy who's skipping inconvenient parts of my filter that I've discussed things besides him, even if pushing him has been my primary thing, due to nearly everything he does seeming somewhat scummy to me? And yes, your opinion of me changes incessantly. It's back and forth between "Probably bad town" and "possibly scum" and "if you don't do X I'll get you lynched" on a rather regular basis. I'm pretty sure there's some supplements that help with short term memory loss, but I forgot what they are. | ||
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On October 08 2012 13:31 gonzaw wrote: Do you have any examples? I don't remember doing that. Jingle, will you read my past games? Just go to my profile and check whatever you want. On October 08 2012 12:48 gonzaw wrote: Complaining Jingle only does against me: because it's the only thing he does and it's anti-town as fuck Anti-town has a heavy dose of implying I'm scum. On October 08 2012 08:20 gonzaw wrote: I made an analysis about how you are likely town which means I'M NOT ACCUSING YOU STOP OVERREACTING GODDAMIT Not accusing me. On October 08 2012 06:46 gonzaw wrote: Do you agree that Jingle is just stubborn town and would try to appear less "Jingle-y" as scum (e.g try to explain all his On October 08 2012 03:47 gonzaw wrote: Because right now for me it's either you austin, Jingle, Drazerk or ghost. I don't really get the feeling ghost is IAM's buddy (maybe that thing about IAM pushing him, although it's possible), and I don't seem to find Jingle as scum specially after reading his past games. That one covers both bases in one post. On October 07 2012 15:46 gonzaw wrote: I'm running out of guys that can be RS to be honest. I'm stuck with Jingle right now if I'm using a process of elimination There's a representative smattering of you flip-flopping on me. | ||
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On October 08 2012 13:55 gonzaw wrote: ...why would you think that? I post my past games in my profile to spare people the time and effort of asking which games I've been in and manually searching them. It's being considerate not "using meta as a tool". I never said your filter, I said in the last 72 hours. Basically N2 and D3. How's that relevant to who's active in the thread? Yes, I "flip-flop" in the sense that I always try to rethink about my stance on you and take a step back and see if I fucked up with my town read on you or not. What I don't remember is doing that depending on who's active in the thread which is what you claimed. Well, I'm sure you don't. It's only been an impression, and not something I've got the energy to document, but it doesn't take away from changing your mind more times than a career politician. And it's not "re-thinking" by any visible logic, it's changing what you're saying about me constantly, with no clear reason. Also, the last 72 hours aren't all that's relevant to the game, and directly after the lynch, weren't you commenting on how little I pushed you during D3? Make up your mind, I'd say. | ||
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And you wonder why I keep going back to only directing my points about you to other people? | ||
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On October 09 2012 02:44 gonzaw wrote: Saying there are 10 scum remaining is easy if you don't make arguments for it. I've made arguments for a 2-2 scum team, and the arguments against it are basically "gonzaw seems like he knows the setup!". ghost tried to do that...but well you could see it didn't make much sense. At least he tried to do it and utterly failed, which is better than just saying "there are 4 scum remaining!" and not doing anything (yes even if ghost is scum). Actually, there's the best argument at all, which you keep completely ignoring. The OP tells us how scum factional KP is calculated, in a way that suggested at least a 3 person red team. Not Caller game, so, Scum KP = #/2 rounded up suggests 3 red minimum. Wording of Crossfire's post suggested 2 black minimum. I've said this before, I believe twice. That means we should be looking for, most likely, 5-7 scum. It's a reasonable deduction that Red only had 3 people, since we have yet to see multiple KPs or, as far as can be spotted, unclaimed saves/vets. | ||
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Ignoring that I've been trying to push him for a while based on tons of things, would you mind expanding on why that in particular stands out to you? | ||
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Usual plethora of reasons. | ||
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That's why I've been pushy and hostile (and it looks like I've been vindicated about Gonzaw having an anti-town wincon, so I wasn't so far off with the primary target of that path). I was hoping to make scum try to hit me and waste their KP. That's also why I waited so long to claim, I wanted to be very sure it was happening en masse before giving that one up. And no, my role doesn't make the other person get hit, it just gets me out of harms way. I've received no notifications of failed hits on me, but I don't know if I would since I'm actively avoiding the KP, rather than having it hit me and fail. | ||
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On October 10 2012 01:53 Keirathi wrote: So...you're a permanent Bulletproof Townie, as long as there is someone below you in the player list? :o I'm only bulletproof IF the person below me is alive to visit. Also, I assume I can be tracked there since I'm visiting them, which has a nasty ability to backfire. As to that being good for black scum, I can't even imagine my role being balanced that way, since the scum team's wincons seem to require working at cross purposes, putting red in a position where they can only kill a rival by forcing a lynch seems risky, especially with a role that would reveal that they had no other choice. Anyone who pushed it would promptly be under scrutiny. That would be an "I win" button for black. Also, if we have a vigi with bullets, confirming me tonight wouldn't be so bad. | ||
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On October 10 2012 02:47 Mattchew wrote: did you really ask a vig to use a bullet on you that you can avoid It would confirm the role. The role would be broken on scum. You have something against confirmed townies who are hard to NK? | ||
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On October 10 2012 03:00 Mattchew wrote: if your scum team had no kp, being able to avoid kp from the other team would be completely balanced Uhh, let's think. If a night passes, with no NK, and suddenly someone pushes for a lynch on someone, then, when they flip, they're town and couldn't have died to an NK the night prior, the people who wanted the lynch are pretty much confirmed scum. And in a multi-faction game, with all of them at cross purposes, the one most in need of roles that can provide information and lynch control is the town. | ||
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You're mostly right, maybe my paranoia has kicked in on the potential weirdness of the role. But I still don't see how it would be balanced as anything but town. And I really don't think that's any more absurd as far as speculation than a lot of the shit other people have done. | ||
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On October 10 2012 03:42 strongandbig wrote: why would the adventure core be a hider Uhh, the Adventure core is just slightly broken. | ||
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On October 10 2012 04:19 austinmcc wrote: snb, is that the exact wording on your role? Grrrrrrrr. JH not quite a hider, because hiders get hit with anything that hits the person they're hiding behind, right? That's the downside to keep them from actually being bulletproof. But he hasn't claimed that. Except it really seems like he's holding some info back. I told you what I know about my role. Bear in mind, I have essentially no control over who I have to visit to get my immunity, and if they die, I'm fucked. | ||
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On October 11 2012 09:31 gonzaw wrote: Yo Jingle once you are done doing your hosting stuff from Looney Mafia chime in. Well, we know someone is lying about their role and/or alignment, and I've got my money on you. That said, my reads are shot to shit right now. Been a screwy couple of days, so I'm only partway caught up right now. So yeah. I still want you dead. You've played anti-town, and your "admission" of an anti-town wincon screams "daredevil gambit". | ||
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And he goes back to the tired old threats of tunneling me till I'm dead. What happened to the last time you were going to do that? Oh wait, you went back to reading me as town, because you're scum, and I seemed like the safest person to call confirmed, since even scum need to do that occasionally and nobody wanted to listen. | ||
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On October 11 2012 10:54 gonzaw wrote: Strike nº2 | ||
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Did I do it right? | ||
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On October 11 2012 11:46 gonzaw wrote: You don't fuck with me all game and get away with it unharmed. You'll be terminated scum. You will be terminated You can't honestly tell me this is a town mentality? Where one of his biggest (if utterly inconsistent, like most of them) town reads is concerned? Revenge because he's tired of being accused of being scum, when he claims a scummy role, a scummy wincon, and somehow it's strange I've thought he was scum all game, and he should push for the lynch of his townread? No, that's scum behavior. Nuff said. I've made cases against him over and over, I've beat my head against the wall arguing it, over and over. And I guess he's decided that he should freak out and go for some balls out chainsaw defense. Lynch him, already. | ||
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On October 11 2012 11:55 Keirathi wrote: Hey Jingle, where were you all day while I was trying to get you lynched? Otherwise occupied. RL shit, mostly. | ||
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On October 12 2012 09:52 gonzaw wrote: Well sorry now you've made me paranoid about everything in a mafia game and I'll start tunneling players each game as soon as they tunnel me without reason. ...is that good or bad? I dunno, but I'm going to start doing it. Bah, it wasn't without reason, it was poorly presented and overly aggressive. What makes you think a 3rd party player who gets called out about activity early wants to be a scum target? Technically, most of my reasons were, from a perspective of not knowing your alignment, fairly decent. I just didn't care what happened with it, and if I looked functionally leaderish, I'da been an appealing NK target. | ||
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On October 12 2012 10:05 Keirathi wrote: I'm really not sure why I didn't push that harder. It triggered by Bullshit-o-meter super hard, but I just let it fly after one comment  E: I'm just terrible as town, sadly Meh, how do you think I feel, a healthy chunk of the town reads on me came because I did shitty in PTP3 and made myself look like a repeat performance... | ||
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On October 12 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote: I AM SO MAD SOMEONE TALK TO ME ABOUT MY ANGER I charge $100/hour to sit in the couch. And I might be the scariest shrink on the planet, especially since I'm not qualified as one. | ||
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On October 12 2012 10:19 gonzaw wrote: How do you think I feel seeing you boast like hell in your scum QT and having me as your little bitch in there? ....lol I think in every QT (scum+obs+black) everybody thought I was scum....? .....really? Am I that hard to find townie? Meh, you dancing to my tune didn't help my wincon, though. Besides, ignore stuff like that, I get exuberant in the QT to help me stay thinking townie in the game. Get it out, off my mind. I think my favorite moment, epeen-wise, was calling that ghost or crossfire would be a perfect scumshot shortly before Crossfire died. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
See, we SHOULD have lynched gonzaw, then we could have kept out medic!  | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 12 2012 10:29 Mattchew wrote: no we shoulda lynched you, and bah hiro i had a feeling you were red like the day3 and on, but i couldn't figure it out in terms of a case Meh, Gonzaw dying would have actually increased time needed to LYLO due to the way things worked out, as was speculated throughout the thread, Black was neutralized as a significant threat by then. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 12 2012 10:30 austinmcc wrote: I can't believe nobody was more disbelieving of my claim. It interacted with almost nothing, but I was hoping I added enough stupid flavor in that nobody would think it was a fakeclaim. If anyone called me out on it, I was going to play the "Why would Grey give me such a stupid fakeclaim if I were scum?" card. Go ssheep! Thanks hosts for putting this together and handling everything. Game ran very, very smoothly imo, which was impressive given that there was so much going on. I was actually thinking your claim sounded fake as hell, but I ignored it completely because there was literally no way I could go for that drastic of a playstyle change once the third faction's existence got outed. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 12 2012 10:55 gonzaw wrote: Grey can you tell us exactly how town could win this game without both scum teams going 100% against each other? This D1 was a miracle or something. Considering there are 6 anti-town players that would be extremely happy with a misslynch, the chances of a D1 misslynch are high as fuck. After that...it's 6 scum 6 town and it's the same thing. Very early in the game there can be more scum than town. How the hell can town win from that? Again, this game was like a super town display in comparison with what could have happened (D1 misslynch, N1 town death, D2 misslynch, N2 town death, bye bye town). Well, bear in mind, Red and Black had opposing Wincons. We had to kill each other as well. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 12 2012 12:44 gonzaw wrote: But both scum thought I was legitimately scum as well :/ It's not that they thought I was town and tried to get an easy misslynch on me....scum thought I was from the other scum team (both of them I think) ....I don't know what to think of that lol N2 was the one where me and Jingle started that shitstorm right? I don't think there was nothing to do that night other than that though. Hey, credit where due, you started a shitstorm  , I just got absurdly lucky that people decided to skip over pages instead of realizing I was fanning the flames deliberately.I think my worst slip that I was lucky nobody caught, though, was accusing you of foreknowledge on Draz. I really should have saved that for after the flip so nobody would notice it was almost like *I* knew he wasn't scum. Really, roughly everything I said was scummy about you, I caught myself doing at some other point 2 seconds after I hit post. But by then nobody wanted to read anything that had both of our names in it. By late, I had neutralized myself too effectively. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 12 2012 13:16 Keirathi wrote: Jingle: Why didn't you use your action last night? I had no idea what Austin can do, and basically, I figured that IF Austin and Gonzaw were somehow both town, I didn't want to be visiting Austin, since an NK on him would have been smart if he were town. There weren't many scenarios (with the information available to me) where leaving my action on Austin made any sense compared to not taking an action. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 12 2012 13:42 Keirathi wrote: Also I think I let you slide because I was convinced that austin was RS because of his play this game, and that Jingle was scum too. And I really only expected 2/2 If you were convinced on me being scum, why did you not listen to my "minimum of 3 RS, 2 BS" argument? | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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On October 12 2012 14:03 gonzaw wrote: Why don't you check my D1 filter? Yep, only 1 page. I really tried to hold myself back with the posting there and be "pro-town" and change my playing style and all that shit. Once shit hit the fan though I just couldn't be arsed anymore. I mean, my filter doubled just on D3 alone, that should have given people some ideas lol. That was part of why I continued actually thinking you were scum up to the end. You suddenly spiked activity when you found out about Black Mesa, which made me think you suddenly felt "safe" hunting for real. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On October 12 2012 14:06 Keirathi wrote: You guys should have killed someone day2 btw. Should have had ghost position swap you night 1 to trigger your vig ability. Me and Ghost couldn't activate him. We kinda checked that ASAP. If we could, I'da activated him so that Ghost could cop it out. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 12 2012 14:10 HiroPro wrote: You needed to play townie enough to get some protection. Yeah, I actually mentioned in QT that him and ghost would be appealing NK targets shortly before you guys offed him. I knew I would be too useful to red to NK, and too useless to town to lynch. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 12 2012 14:14 HiroPro wrote: I don't think this setup is really imbalanced (if you consider each side having 1/3 chance to win fair). Maybe black scum could have been a little stronger. But it is very variable. Like a lot depends on the interaction of night actions. And survival. As long as Black Mesa was an unknown, we had a chance. When we got revealed through flip, we were in serious trouble unless we lynched scum and scum NKed anyone with a shred of towncred. When ghost flipped, we officially lost. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 12 2012 14:57 GreYMisT wrote: Really want the flavor I would use? Hello, Cave Johnson here! Welcome to cooperative antagonist robotic testing! Today is a great leap forward in science, so you should be proud! Or rather your computer brains should be simulating proudness. Anyway after watching robots try to work together but then get each other killed, we decided to see how well robots trying to kill each other work together. Makes sense right? RIGHT?!?! Anyway, get out there and try to work towards your common goal of beating the other. You'll do fine. We're done here. Funny, that reminds me of a Portal 2 Coop map I made for the pure function of blowing up your fellow robot. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 12 2012 22:55 austinmcc wrote: iirc, both from the vote and the misunderstanding about the lynch mechanic, he came across as incredibly townie. Someone that we just couldn't mislynch later in the game. While he wasn't active and figuring things out, he was someone we didn't want around as the game went longer because he wouldn't ever be a mislynch option. Plus, although he seemed to be clearly town, it still felt unlikely there'd be protection on him because of his activity level, so it was more likely we could actually kill him than someone highly visible. Just so happened that "incredibly townie" actually meant "incredibly not-us" Pretty much the reasons I had figured in the BS QT that he'd be a great target. By the way, is anyone else almost wishing we'd gotten to find out how me vs Gonzaw in the least rational Mafia all-in ever would have ended? | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 12 2012 23:04 marvellosity wrote: no, everyone wants to forget that as soon as possible Oh come on, it was a brilliant strategy. Thank you for not being in this one, by the way, I really doubt I could have gotten away with referencing bad play in PTP3 safely. You would have gotten me lynched because you know my ego. | ||
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JingleHell
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On October 12 2012 23:20 marvellosity wrote: I love your ego, babe <3 edit: and yea, you know I found that PTP3 thing pretty weird. <3 But yeah, I literally was thinking about that when I posted that. "It's a really good thing Marv isn't in this game, he'd know better." | ||
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JingleHell
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