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On October 09 2012 06:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 06:43 Coagulation wrote:
bc are you saying mementoss is scum? its certainly possible given two known mafia have attempted to get me lynched on the same response. He claims a flipped role, and his watch just happens to include a dead scum, and his second check turns up notta. The timing is odd given that I had called him out yesterday for shitty behaviour and likely being scum. Does this mean he 100% is? No, but the time of his claim is weird as shite, even you should see that.
how is it weird, I couldn't claim at deadline, and although unlikely, if I died tonight, then town wouldn't have this info. Claiming at deadline woulda been could cause I probably woulda got another watch.
anyways it would make no sense for me to do this as scum and you even thinking its plausible just makes me think you are 3rd party even more.
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This is what I hate about after-the-fact edits.
Mementoss willingly gave information about his role without hesitation when Promethelax asked, but had to edit it out because he was ninja'd by BM24.
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On October 09 2012 06:54 Keirathi wrote:
This is what I hate about after-the-fact edits.
Mementoss willingly gave information about his role without hesitation when Promethelax asked, but had to edit it out because he was ninja'd by BM24.
What I mean is that it already influenced my read of the situation, but now I can't even share that with other people because it was asked to not be talked about.
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On October 09 2012 06:54 Keirathi wrote:
This is what I hate about after-the-fact edits.
Mementoss willingly gave information about his role without hesitation when Promethelax asked, but had to edit it out because he was ninja'd by BM24.
Save it for the post game (that is what I'm doing).
Instead of bitching about the host decisions maybe you can grace us with a read. You are better than your play in this game. I know you have been doubting your abilities as a townie recently but maybe you could at least try to do some analysis, get some reads and get a post out before deadline.
Pre Post Edit: I see that we agree about the reasons that this is a shitty host decision. Leave it dude, nothing we can do about it. We're in the middle of a game and being stuck on this won't help town at all. You've posted more on not being able to talk about Memen's post than you have about anything in days. It affected your read, eh? Well what read is that?
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Before I go, it was my fault I should have asked. Carry on with game like nothing happened. lol.
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VE why are you so hard on my ass all of a sudden?
First you lie about suspecting coag.
Then you say you are going to look through my past games to figure out if I'm a moron or scum. Did you do that? I hope not because it would be a collosal waste of time given how limited your time must be to justify your lack of contributions to this game.
But if you actually did that then kudos to you. You should have come to the conclusion that I am indeed a moron. So why are you so suspicious of me? Because marv and hapa defended me? Well scum node attacked me. I think mafia see me as an easy target and use me to distance themselves from each other.
I am an easy scum target because I have acted superficially scummy.
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That I almost 100% believe Mementoss's claim at this point.
As far as BC...I think its about 50/50 whether he's SK or Vet. We don't know enough about the scum numbers or KP to be able to decidedly prove that there's an SK, IMO. And claiming that he was medic protected as a Vet does make some modicum of sense. Its probably what I would do if I knew there were save notifications (ie austin).
I'm...not sure he's worth lynching tomorrow. Even if he is SK, SK at this point is probably wants to shoot townies but doesn't want to overlap his shots. So he would be aiming for less obvious townies (which could be beneficial to us, as it gets rid of some controversial townies), and may end up inadvertently hitting scum.
My next read is going to be about risk.nuke. I'm going through some logs and checking a previous game. I'll post it soon.
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On October 09 2012 07:05 kushm4sta wrote:
VE why are you so hard on my ass all of a sudden?
First you lie about suspecting coag.
Then you say you are going to look through my past games to figure out if I'm a moron or scum. Did you do that? I hope not because it would be a collosal waste of time given how limited your time must be to justify your lack of contributions to this game.
But if you actually did that then kudos to you. You should have come to the conclusion that I am indeed a moron. So why are you so suspicious of me? Because marv and hapa defended me? Well scum node attacked me. I think mafia see me as an easy target and use me to distance themselves from each other.
I am an easy scum target because I have acted superficially scummy.
I'll build a case when I have time. In the meantime, keep defending yourself against accusations I haven't made. I'm finding the reading incredibly interesting.
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On October 09 2012 07:09 Keirathi wrote:
That I almost 100% believe Mementoss's claim at this point.
As far as BC...I think its about 50/50 whether he's SK or Vet. We don't know enough about the scum numbers or KP to be able to decidedly prove that there's an SK, IMO. And claiming that he was medic protected as a Vet does make some modicum of sense. Its probably what I would do if I knew there were save notifications (ie austin).
I'm...not sure he's worth lynching tomorrow. Even if he is SK, SK at this point is probably wants to shoot townies but doesn't want to overlap his shots. So he would be aiming for less obvious townies (which could be beneficial to us, as it gets rid of some controversial townies), and may end up inadvertently hitting scum.
My next read is going to be about risk.nuke. I'm going through some logs and checking a previous game. I'll post it soon.
People keep saying how ahead we are, is that really true? do you think we're at a 13-2-1 situation right now or 12-3-1 or what? I see those still being pretty balanced. We've lost some power roles, scum has lost their GF. And, most importantly, we have had almost no discussion for two cycles. How do you see us as so far ahead of scum that SK wants to eliminate townies?
VE, Kier, thanks for participating. Its nice to see you guys posting more.
VE: if Kush were to be Vig'd who would you want to lynch next Day?
Kier: What do you think of our lurking contingent, there are a lot of good players not joining in, which of the is towniest and which scummiest?
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On October 09 2012 07:09 Keirathi wrote:
That I almost 100% believe Mementoss's claim at this point.
As far as BC...I think its about 50/50 whether he's SK or Vet. We don't know enough about the scum numbers or KP to be able to decidedly prove that there's an SK, IMO. And claiming that he was medic protected as a Vet does make some modicum of sense. Its probably what I would do if I knew there were save notifications (ie austin).
I'm...not sure he's worth lynching tomorrow. Even if he is SK, SK at this point is probably wants to shoot townies but doesn't want to overlap his shots. So he would be aiming for less obvious townies (which could be beneficial to us, as it gets rid of some controversial townies), and may end up inadvertently hitting scum.
My next read is going to be about risk.nuke. I'm going through some logs and checking a previous game. I'll post it soon.
Some further thoughts:
One thing that concerns me about the BC = SK thing is that marv and Hapa tried pretty hard to convince us that he was SK. Scum don't necessarily want the SK dead, especially when they are hemorrhaging members. They want townies dead, and, at least early, SK helps with that.
The caveat to this is that eventually the SK is going to have to start trying to hit scum, because to win he has to make it to 1v1v1 LYLO. And, BC being SK would eventually scare mafia, because I believe he is good enough to pick out the scum at some point.
But again, we don't know for sure that there even is an SK. All we can be certain of is that there was 4 KP night 1, one of which was a claimed vig shot, and 2 on night 2 without a vig and mafia lost 1 member.
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On October 09 2012 07:22 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 07:09 Keirathi wrote:
That I almost 100% believe Mementoss's claim at this point.
As far as BC...I think its about 50/50 whether he's SK or Vet. We don't know enough about the scum numbers or KP to be able to decidedly prove that there's an SK, IMO. And claiming that he was medic protected as a Vet does make some modicum of sense. Its probably what I would do if I knew there were save notifications (ie austin).
I'm...not sure he's worth lynching tomorrow. Even if he is SK, SK at this point is probably wants to shoot townies but doesn't want to overlap his shots. So he would be aiming for less obvious townies (which could be beneficial to us, as it gets rid of some controversial townies), and may end up inadvertently hitting scum.
My next read is going to be about risk.nuke. I'm going through some logs and checking a previous game. I'll post it soon. People keep saying how ahead we are, is that really true? do you think we're at a 13-2-1 situation right now or 12-3-1 or what? I see those still being pretty balanced. We've lost some power roles, scum has lost their GF. And, most importantly, we have had almost no discussion for two cycles. How do you see us as so far ahead of scum that SK wants to eliminate townies? VE, Kier, thanks for participating. Its nice to see you guys posting more. VE: if Kush were to be Vig'd who would you want to lynch next Day? Kier: What do you think of our lurking contingent, there are a lot of good players not joining in, which of the is towniest and which scummiest?
Tentatively ZBoson. He was quick on the Node wagon on D1 if memory serves, which was what made me start reading him in the first place...however he was also quick off it. He expressed pretty serious suspicion of myself and Coag which he has never revisited (to my knowledge - I have not done a thorough reread.)
I'm going to go over some of the interactions, but yeah ZBoson is my second highest scum read.
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Where is z boson? He has been active in his other game. He is my top scumread.
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2nd scumread is VE who reappears after paramedics are dead.
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On October 09 2012 07:22 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 07:09 Keirathi wrote:
That I almost 100% believe Mementoss's claim at this point.
As far as BC...I think its about 50/50 whether he's SK or Vet. We don't know enough about the scum numbers or KP to be able to decidedly prove that there's an SK, IMO. And claiming that he was medic protected as a Vet does make some modicum of sense. Its probably what I would do if I knew there were save notifications (ie austin).
I'm...not sure he's worth lynching tomorrow. Even if he is SK, SK at this point is probably wants to shoot townies but doesn't want to overlap his shots. So he would be aiming for less obvious townies (which could be beneficial to us, as it gets rid of some controversial townies), and may end up inadvertently hitting scum.
My next read is going to be about risk.nuke. I'm going through some logs and checking a previous game. I'll post it soon. People keep saying how ahead we are, is that really true? do you think we're at a 13-2-1 situation right now or 12-3-1 or what? I see those still being pretty balanced. We've lost some power roles, scum has lost their GF. And, most importantly, we have had almost no discussion for two cycles. How do you see us as so far ahead of scum that SK wants to eliminate townies? VE, Kier, thanks for participating. Its nice to see you guys posting more. VE: if Kush were to be Vig'd who would you want to lynch next Day? Kier: What do you think of our lurking contingent, there are a lot of good players not joining in, which of the is towniest and which scummiest?
I think we're probably at 12-3-1. General rule of thumb AFAIK is 1 scum per 5 players. So in a 25 player game, theoretically there would be 5 scum. 4 or 6 is also possible for balance reasons, but default assumption would be 5.
Some further reasoning for that: In general, scum KP is (alive mafia/2) rounded up. That would give 3 KP on night 1, but then only 2 on night 2 (since marv died). Which fits with what has happened (and why I'm hesitant to say that there's an SK).
As far as the lurkers/good players thing, I'll really have to get back to you. As terrible as I know it sounds (and its really obvious already), I really haven't been spending that much time going back through the game and making reads. Its just been really hard to get motivated to pay more attention when I have 1) another game that is taking a ton of attention and 2) this game having 2 full cycles in a row of guaranteed scum. Yes, I understand that's terrible. I apologize to BM24 and my fellow townies.
But, for a quick "gut" response, I would say slOosh looks the worst of the lurkers vets, and VE the towniest. I'll expand on that before deadline.
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On October 09 2012 07:33 kushm4sta wrote:
Where is z boson? He has been active in his other game. He is my top scumread.
You just answered your own question. I'm very busy IRL as well.
On October 09 2012 07:27 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 07:22 Promethelax wrote:On October 09 2012 07:09 Keirathi wrote:
That I almost 100% believe Mementoss's claim at this point.
As far as BC...I think its about 50/50 whether he's SK or Vet. We don't know enough about the scum numbers or KP to be able to decidedly prove that there's an SK, IMO. And claiming that he was medic protected as a Vet does make some modicum of sense. Its probably what I would do if I knew there were save notifications (ie austin).
I'm...not sure he's worth lynching tomorrow. Even if he is SK, SK at this point is probably wants to shoot townies but doesn't want to overlap his shots. So he would be aiming for less obvious townies (which could be beneficial to us, as it gets rid of some controversial townies), and may end up inadvertently hitting scum.
My next read is going to be about risk.nuke. I'm going through some logs and checking a previous game. I'll post it soon. People keep saying how ahead we are, is that really true? do you think we're at a 13-2-1 situation right now or 12-3-1 or what? I see those still being pretty balanced. We've lost some power roles, scum has lost their GF. And, most importantly, we have had almost no discussion for two cycles. How do you see us as so far ahead of scum that SK wants to eliminate townies? VE, Kier, thanks for participating. Its nice to see you guys posting more. VE: if Kush were to be Vig'd who would you want to lynch next Day? Kier: What do you think of our lurking contingent, there are a lot of good players not joining in, which of the is towniest and which scummiest? Tentatively ZBoson. He was quick on the Node wagon on D1 if memory serves, which was what made me start reading him in the first place...however he was also quick off it. He expressed pretty serious suspicion of myself and Coag which he has never revisited (to my knowledge - I have not done a thorough reread.) I'm going to go over some of the interactions, but yeah ZBoson is my second highest scum read.
wtf? You were quicker than me on the Node wagon. What kind of grounds is that? I offed it because it felt like I was just mindlessly sheeping someone else, I had read very little on the thread and I fucking hate that kind of play.
I'm also not confident in both my reads of you and Coag. I didn't revisit them because I didn't read your filters yet, because I'm busy. I will post more once I finish this nightmarish newbie game I'm in, pinky swear 
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On October 06 2012 11:06 Hapahauli wrote:
And I'm off for the night.
But PLEASE take a look at my comments tomorrow on risk if I'm not alive!
Peace.
is there a reason people want to lynch the person the scum wanted to push? I think risk has said some stupid stuff but i am 100% against him being the top candidate for a lynch.
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Ok, time to post something before the night kills as I promised. Here are the reason I will most likely be voting VE next day if I'm alive. Also note that a lot of these things have already been posted, but with all the different tells which have been posted throughout the thread its probably a good idea to bunch them together somewhere.
1) The Node wagon.
This post:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well, I went over austin's filter and was coming back to tell you guys that I didn't want to lynch him based upon it, and then I saw two walls of his. We're not lynching austin today.
I'm liking a Node lynch. I do NOT think we have the votes to make it happen. I still like a Shady lynch, but more and more it's feeling like an angry townie ragequitting the game more than a scummy manipulation tactic. However his explanation for his trolling was totally bullshit and I can get behind his lynch more than kj/austin.
is the most scummy thing about it.
1a) He only says he read through austins filters, but he very nicely avoids posting what he found in it. Instead he refers to "the two walls of his" as if that somehow makes everything 100% clear. He still, as of today, has not explained why he changed.
1b) His extremely weak (on unexisting) reason to switch to Node. Someone (who people seem to regard a very strong player) should not change that easily to such a weak case it was.
2) Refusing to answer to said cases and other quetions
I just know what I asked him stuff myself, like this:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 19:54 Kreb wrote:@VEShow nested quote +On October 02 2012 13:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's not the worst part. The worst part is we lynched a townie. That's just a bad, expected, forseeable part.
The worst part is that we didn't fucking lynch scum annul. Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 13:40 VisceraEyes wrote:I really like austin all of a sudden. And really dislike Mattchew. It's going to be an eventful night guys. Sleep tight.  Three lines of text, three questions: 1) What gave you the scum-read on annul? You were targetting him previously but to my knowledge your last stance on him was this: Show nested quote +At this point I'm null - I got a false read on him early on, and while I think his anger at me seems a little contrived, I know I've overreacted once or twice to people calling my posts stupid or something. Once that I remember for sure. Maybe twice. Has this changed? If so, why? 2) Why do you like austin? 3) Why do you dislike Mattchew?
And he also refused to comment at all on my other accusations. To my knowledge he still hasnt said a word on the Node wagon yet.
3) The way he targetted annul
3a) His targetting D1 actually seemed to have a bit of reason behind it, but right after the Shady mislynch he says this:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 13:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's not the worst part. The worst part is we lynched a townie. That's just a bad, expected, forseeable part.
The worst part is that we didn't fucking lynch scum annul.
Once again, no explanation. Just straight up calling annul scum. It goes on for a while and the only legitimate reason I could see for his targetting of annul was the fact that annul suggested a vote switch (to ZBoson i think) very close to the deadline even though he had questioned vote switching before. While I did agree on that particular point against annul, that alone did in no way motivate the way VE attacked him. Also, it seemed like that reason only was revealed a bit after he had already started attacking annul, like he found about it later. A proper townie would have explained first and targetted after.
3b) Also he tried to paint annul as some really crafty mafia so the rest of us would be suspicious of him too, even though there wasnt as much to be suspicious of. mkfuba made a good case on that part:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 23:51 mkfuba07 wrote:Alright, I'm going to be getting a bit more rest since I woke up for Code S. Current thoughts: I could definitely see VE being scum. His unfortunate scumhunting is a big piece of the puzzle, but his interaction with annul keeps nagging at me. Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 09:48 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 03 2012 09:45 kushm4sta wrote:On October 03 2012 09:33 annul wrote:
whats with all the lies by this cabal? "you not pushing anyone" o rly who would you say you've pushed?? Who have you made a good case on? The longest post by far in your filter is a mostly omgus defence. "Rofl"s everywhere. VE has said that annul plays a scary mafia... If this is his scumplay how is this scary? It seems like he is making himself quite an obvious target for lynching if he is mafia. That's what you think...until he actually feels like he might be lynched. Then watch. *shiver* Palmar couldn't get the guy lynched. PALMAR. And his newbie brigade was in full force at the time! Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 10:31 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 03 2012 10:21 annul wrote:On October 03 2012 09:48 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 03 2012 09:45 kushm4sta wrote:On October 03 2012 09:33 annul wrote:
whats with all the lies by this cabal? "you not pushing anyone" o rly who would you say you've pushed?? Who have you made a good case on? The longest post by far in your filter is a mostly omgus defence. "Rofl"s everywhere. VE has said that annul plays a scary mafia... If this is his scumplay how is this scary? It seems like he is making himself quite an obvious target for lynching if he is mafia. That's what you think...until he actually feels like he might be lynched. Then watch. *shiver* Palmar couldn't get the guy lynched. PALMAR. And his newbie brigade was in full force at the time! if i had such magical "lynch evasion" skills, wouldnt i have these same skills as a green about to be lynched too? What's your point? Did I ever say it was a skill you exclusively possess as scum? I didn't think I did :/ It took me a while to figure out why I was so annoyed by these posts, but I think I've figured it out. VE first emphasizes that as scum annul can become "scary" (which I assume means that he can appear to become a good contributor, though VE never actually says how annul becomes "scary"), but leaves out the fact that he might do the same exact thing as town. It doesn't feel like VE is trying to inform the town of annul's apparent meta, as much as emphasize the scummy aspects of annul's meta and attribute it entirely to scum-annul. It would feel the same way if marv came in and said that I can be incredibly wishy-washy as scum. He's emphasized in previous games that I am the master of wishy-washiness regardless of alignment (though I've only ever been scum once, for little over a day). If he were to come into this game and try to convince everyone that I'm only wishy-washy when I'm scum, then I would be incredibly suspicious of him (In fact, I believe that's part of why he avoided talking about me at all despite my case being in the same post as the Node one). In VE's case, it looks like he tried to do a similar thing, and then when annul called him out on it he tried to minimize the effect. Why say that scum-annul can be "scary" if town-annul can also be "scary" unless you're trying to make vigis take the shot without a proper reason? It seems like a pretty scummy interaction from VE. I'd really like to hear thoughts from others, as this is the first thing I feel pretty confident about this game. Finally, I'm still waiting on input from mementoss... I know that 15 pages is a lot to go through, but I'm not going to put him aside just because one of the people who was calling him out is going to flip scum. There are other lurkers, but he's promised more contributions twice now, and we've seen nothing from it.
4) Meta reads
This isnt something I can really confirm but I'll add it since it makes sence because of how many peopel have expressed them. Talismania started off by calling his meta scummy early D1. That kinda died off (probably for a good reason), but since then a lot of people have commented on how VE as town is MUCH more active, sometimes/often (?) something of a town leader and being much more contributory than how he is this game.
5) Extremely scummy (or bad if he really is town) scumhunting
Already posted about this, here:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 21:33 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 21:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
Couple of thoughts from reading marvs filter, now that he is pretty much confirmed scum.
First off, his reaction to kreb makes me raise an eyebrow. He was extremely aggressive for something that could simply have been a townie thought. Kreb also hadn't made an association case, he simply said that some people looked scummy. Also, kreb said that marvs node push made him look scummy and generally made a weak semicase vs marv. It didn't feel legit and marvs reaction felt forced. I myself don't know what I'm implying but I think this interaction will become useful later.
There's also some interesting info regarding the node push. Marv stated that it didn't make sense at all from a mafia perspective, yet made the push. Pretty much an attempt at clearing suspicion. Now, I'm not gonna go and start accusing everyone on the node lynch because I myself sheeped it, as town. But Afaik, VE and marv basically started the Node push, and pretty much at the same time.
Initially I thought this would clear node, but it's pretty easy to not actually make it go through as mafia.
So, my conclusion from this is: VE looks pretty damn scummy right now. 1) He basically claimed he got RB(and its almost factual that at least one kill didn't go through). 2) marv showed weird hostility on the association kreb didn't make. 3) he co-led the Node push with another scum at the same time -> came from qt, quite possibly. They were pretty much caught with their pants down if it was indeed scum-influenced. Agreed. VE also didnt reply to any questions I asked him afterwards, nor did he reply to me calling him out for a very weak vote-switch to Node (left it to marv to do the dirty work by agressively defending my accusations while also clogging up the thread with plenty of posts?). He has also, should he be town, been either terribly bad or terribly unlucky in his scumhunting. Lets look at a few people he has touched on: 1) Show nested quote +I've got my eye on ShadySands, annul and Mattchew right now. Pretty sure there's scum buried deep within that trio. 2 confirmed town flips. 2) Then the attack on annul - confirmed town flip. 3) After dropping annul, posting this Show nested quote +I'm willing to lynch into ShadySands, kingjames01 as it stands. We really need more content from everyone though. while placing his vote on Shady. 2 confirmed town. 4) Voted Node - no flip on him yet though. 5) Going back to annul (confirmed town) after mislynch. With very little motivation (and refused to explain himself when I questioned it). 6) Show nested quote +Someone shoot him. We can lynch Node easier than Annul, and I want them both dead.
Medics, on me and marv.
DTs, on BC and Mattchew.
We totally got this. Calling for a medic on a confirmed (yea, he is) scum, calling vig shot on a confirmed town. He is either scum or just randomly managed to call out about every single confirmed player (except Risen) the wrong alignment. VE is my top scum read atm.
6) His post-marv-revelation behavior
6a) After having had many people saying they were suspicious of him post Marvs revelation, how did he reply? He replied with some wierd extreme confidence. Look here:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 04 2012 08:17 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 08:12 Kreb wrote:On October 04 2012 06:51 mkfuba07 wrote:
So, did anyone actually read what I wrote about VE? What did you think about it? Anyone?
Well, a good 5+ have expressed suspicions of VE so far. I dont think we all need to go and quote each other saying we agree. The ball is in his court, lets wait and see if he has anything to say. Please, by all means. Bring it on. I haven't done anything wrong except be wrong. That doesn't mean I'm scum. It means I'm bad at the game. At least 75% of the players in this game knew that already. :/
Here:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 04 2012 09:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
When you line it all up like that it makes it easy to see how laughable the case against me is. Thank you kush. Seriously, I was starting to worry until you did that.
And here:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 04 2012 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
On October 04 2012 09:37 kushm4sta wrote:
You said you were going to read through the thread again so you could figure things out. Instead of making a case against someone you just sit in the thread wise cracking?
Me? Dude, we're lynching marv today. I can assure you I'm reading. I'll post something, don't you worry. It's not about the wise-cracking.
Just...trust me guy. You won't want to lynch me when it's time to actually pick someone to lynch.
Im not sure why scum would really wanna do that, but its 100% not towny to do. Compare to DPs case on Keirathi for example, or the french dudes on Shiao. No matter whether you like the cases or not, both Kei and Shiao were properly there to respond to the cases like a town should. VE did something completely different. Also note how he never really commented on this afterwards either, but rather seems to be banking on it being forgotten.
To me, it seems more likely he "gave up" or "lost interest" (someone already pointed that out, I think it was Coag, and VE rejected it) due to the percieved OPness/sillyness of the Paramedic role. He probably intented some kind of agressive/confident defense initally, but then just didnt care about it enough.
6b) Also note how he went trollmode with marv for a while (towny thing to do? hell no.) Its quite clear he enjoys playing with marv, which further strengthens the belief that he lost interest/gave up when Marv got caught in such a silly way.
7) Marvs motive behind his discussion with me
Ok, this is a new point, but I saved maybe the best for last. Lets look again at the context of Marvs behaviour of my case. First, lets look at what I wrote:
On October 02 2012 18:35 Kreb wrote:
Overall I must say its remarkable how how people switch so fast to Node because of what I would call a very weak case made by a person who is currently set up to have a wagon starting on him (austin). I'd say its very likely we have at least one scum in the austin/VE/marv trio. Two is definitely possible too. All three? Maybe not, it would be a bit too obvious I feel.
On October 02 2012 18:35 Kreb wrote:
. I dont think Node is scum. The case is weak and the wagon strange.
Later I also kinda halfassed bunched Kush into my group of scummy people. So what do we know now:
- Node is scum (I was wrong)
- Austin was twon (I was wrong)
- Marv is scum (I was right)
Now, lets for a moment assume both VE and Kush are town. And with that assumption in mind, lets look at what Marv had to say about my case:
On October 02 2012 20:01 marvellosity wrote:
On October 02 2012 18:54 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 17:47 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kush are you scum?
People have been calling him out for saying scummy sounding stuff, and some people have said that he's not playing at all like his scum meta. Well I don't think he's playing like his town meta. He's known for saying dumb stuff from time to time as either town/mafia but this game he just seems way too illogical, even taking his meta into account. In the last game I played with him where he was town he was extremely helpful and the flames were few and far between. His scum meta has been exposed to be full of faked anger, extreme failures of logic, and constant insults towards everyone in the game. The way he's playing this game strikes me as a slightly toned down version of his scum meta. He rolled scum twice in a row and everyone got to see his scum play, so he would have changed his meta somewhat if he were to roll scum again. But it still seems like he's putting up somewhat of an act, and in the games where he was town you could see right through to his obviously convoluted townie thought process. While reading through his posts in this game I get this huge "I don't give a shit" vibe about his feelings towards the lynch and he's said several things that suggest he's not trying very hard or caring about his vote, and that's not the town kush I know.
Town kush = sometimes says dumb stuff, but you can see right through to his thought process and he's very cooperative in general
Scum kush = faked anger, extreme stupidity at times, and likes to throw around insults very often
This game = looks more like his scum meta than his town meta. He's being too illogical/rude for me to be able to write it off as his "scummy town-meta"
Hmm, this kinda rivals marv's earlier claim about Kush. And considering: -I think marv acted scummy in the Node case -marv kinda defended Kush when early votes started to land on him -Kush was also an early joiner of the Node wagon -You think Kush is playing a toned down scum game Kush could definitely earn a spot in my scummy-looking group of austin/VE/Marv.
Here. Let me tell you why you're fucking awful. You're fucking awful because you've already managed to make a 4-man connection before anyone involved (node, austin, kush). Who do you think is better at understanding meta, newbie thrawn (no offence intended at all, just fact) or me?
Who *have* we had flipped? We've had Shady flipped. Confirmed town. What drugs are you on when you're looking at those on the Node wagon as the most culpable, instead of the people who derailed it back to Shady?
Damn right I defended kush, I think he's playing to his town meta far more than his scum meta, and he's such a god damn easy lynch for scum just to park on going "lol scumslip must be scum."
Looking at the voting list, the interesting points are players like BC, Matt, Keir, talis. It became clear kj wasn't a realistic lynch target with plenty of time to spare. BC came in, contributed some, then totally disappeared. Not sure on Keir. talis may be the worst of the bunch with his awful case on VE and subsequent total disappearance.
Later turning into:
On October 03 2012 05:31 marvellosity wrote:
On October 03 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote:
Marv, I don't know kreb's play well/at all, but right now I'm not as scummy on him as I am on other players, and at the very least it seems that pushing him is just going to get things more and more twisted up.
aye, it's why I've read his response and I'm not replying for now, as it's fruitless. I'm seeing him as misguided townie atm.
Now, specifically note how he is targetting me. Not the part of my case directed to him, but me (and my case) as a whole. Now, why would you want to do that if I only were right about Marv being scummy!!?? Why would he react like that if I was wrong about Node, Austin, VE and Kush?!!?
Theres absolutely no reason to. The aggressiveness of his defense clearly tells me I was onto something more than just him. If he was the only thing I had right in my post, theres several other much better approaches he couldve used to abuse my mis-reads.
He could have agreed on it, admitting it was wierd (which likely would have had me going straight after VE), knowing that there was a very high chance I'd go after a town. But he didnt.
He could have defended himself alone, citing town reads on VE as reason why he followed him. He didnt.
He could have not said anything at all, hoping it would turn into a austin or VE lynch. He didnt.
Instead he decided to go and agressively discredit me and as such my whole case. And I just cant see why he would do that if the only thing I predicted right was Marvs scummyness. I think I must have hit something more to motivate this response. And while it could possible be Kush, I think VE is the most likely person. Or hell, maybe even both.
Bonus point
+ Show Spoiler +This is definitely confirmation bias if I somehow would be wrong about all this, but out of all replies to the mkfuba/hapa thing, this still stood out to me: [B]On October 06 2012 21:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Vote: Hapa
Twice in one game. Damn fine work guys. Sick crumb fuba. Really? Is that geniune happiness or irony and bitterness?
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That is why VisceraEyes is scum.
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That whole case has 4 quotes from me, and you didn't comment on any of them.
However, you've quoted marv extensively and even yourself a couple of times, with plenty of comment on those posts.
As such, there's nothing for me to respond to. Have a nice day Kreb.
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EPT
