On October 13 2012 03:34 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 03:12 Z-BosoN wrote:
Can someone please be explain to me this KP mechanic? You sacrifice 1-2 KP so that someone's flip changes, is that right? Why is that so costly? The only advantage I can think of is that town thinks the scumteam is bigger then it actually is...
Are there any other KP saving mechanics you guys are aware of?
Kush's meta seemed like he was indeed town, which made me think that, but that could have been fabricated if he was scum with the knowledge that he would pop town.
It's setup speculation, and no one really knows because affecting flips like this is really rare. Like the controversial Death Millers from LIII, but reverse. The idea is that scum "spend their KP" for other effects, in this case to make kush flip town. Wanna flesh out the reads you have?
I've already gone through a lot of my reads, but I'll give some of my recent thoughts this game.
First thing is, I don't think a KP shenanigan occured. Why? kushm4sta has been looking like his town meta all game long. I've seen two other games of his, and imo it's pretty clear when he is town and he is not. I'm not as confident of reading him as I am on shady, but I don't think that his alignment was changed or whatever. Your recent comment on how rare it is for such a thing to exist supports this.
So what concerns me regarding this no-kill thing is the roleblock.
We know there is a roleblocker, that is for sure. Now what has happened?
Two supposedly claimed blues (VE and Mementoss) were neither shot nor roleblocked. This right now is screaming WTF at me. Either both of them are scum, or mafia are keeping them alive so we mislynch them out of fear or something of the like.
The fact that neither of them got roleblocked, however, is unsettling. That makes me think that either:
a) We have a town roleblocker, that blocked someone sending in the kills and that accounts for one NK.
b) Mafia decided to forgo the roleblock on supposedly confirmed blues and not use it at all.
Something is way off here. I think a) is much more likely. I can't see mafia choosing to let confirmed blues do their bidding on the premise that we will mislynch them.
Since right now I'm taking the stance that both VE and mementoss are legit, then it's much more likely that a town rber exists (despite us having so many blues).
If you are town roleblocker, confirm and we will have our next scum .
If no one claims anything related to roleblock, then the roleblocker is scum, and they chose to not roleblock anyone, for some reason. I will go over why I think this information is important later on.
Mattchew/DarthPunk
Right now I'm supportive of a Mattchew lynch, as I've mentioned in my case against him. Shiaopi coming out of the blue to attack DP doesn't strike me as scummy at all. He has played in LVII and spent extensive moments trading flame wars with DP.
DP/Shiaopi interchange.
I originally thought him scummy, made a case on him, and he went OMGUSE against me hardcore. Had some moments where I thought he was town due to his exchange with me, but after some more reading, I've changed my mind yet again. I am now also supportive of a DP lynch use.
Observe, from his filter from LVII, some of the same elements from his metagame he's using here:
On LVII - if you think someone is X, why don't you do Y?:
On September 19 2012 21:59 DarthPunk wrote:
Seriously you are convinced I am red yet you won't lynch me. WTF?!??!
On this game :
On October 11 2012 11:10 DarthPunk wrote:
Z-Boson. If you think Kush is green why is your vote still parked on him?
(obs: + Show Spoiler +On October 11 2012 10:41 DarthPunk wrote:
I have misgivings on this lynch. But it is probably better play to just verify the cop claim. Like I think the optimal play is to lynch the red check. But I am not 100% on that. :/
On LVII - Uses the fact that he is being "mislynched":
On September 22 2012 17:44 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2012 17:42 ShiaoPi wrote:
sorry bm Im on the phone, so not checking all the time. DP obviously ccs you VT claim. I for one believe BM. which brings us back to DP vs. BM in terms of lynching.
so yeah ##Vote: Darthpunk (In case I live lol) Really???Sigh. this is SO incredibly frustrating. At least I know how it feels to be mislynched now.
On this game - he's also treating himself as a mislynch, and quite extensively at that. (after I had only made an FoS off him. Extremely defensive about it.):
+ Show Spoiler +On October 11 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 11:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Omfg, he's that dense. I'm not trying to mislynch you off of kush. I'm trying to LYNCH you because I find you scum. See this clusterfuck I've bothered to make? On October 10 2012 14:42 Z-BosoN wrote:For contrasting purposes. First view on kush: On October 07 2012 20:18 DarthPunk wrote:
About Kush's analysis. That is beyond anything I have seen from him in terms of actual quality analysis in the 3 games of his I obs'd and the 2 I have since played with him. It is a striking difference from that play and even the play in this game.
Either he is improving in his play. or he is being coached in the QT. I find both plausible at this point and certainly don;t want to lynch him for sound analysis.
That being said. I do want to lynch him for All the reasons I have already brought up. What the fuck is this post right here? I don't want to lynch him for these reasons. I want to lynch him for those reasons. Why the hell is he even bringing that up? This flimsiness is characteristic of scum. Especially DarthPunk. In XXVIII when he got tunnel vision on kush, he didn't even begin to make a concession of any type. So right now, he's made clear he wants to lynch kush, despite him showing improved play (for some reason, he feels it's necessary to mention this). Afterwards: On October 09 2012 17:28 DarthPunk wrote:On October 09 2012 17:20 kushm4sta wrote:
DP and VE have me voted.. seriously. I realized I'm biased but from my perspective I seem pretty damn green.
Marv defending me means nothing. If that is your primary reasons for voting me then that is weak and you know it.
DP your primary reason for voting me is that I fucked with you? You don't see how that is something a town or scum kush could have done? If anything it's a null tell.
Look at my play, if you can bear to drudge through my filter.
@VE your activity has been really bad and if you are town I doubt you put much thought into this vote. Why would you vote for an outlier candidate instead of a popular one? You haven't done of the legwork to make a case against me and convince others. You Employed WIFOM against me in order to mask your scum slips and meta. By intentionally making scum slips and employing your scum meta. It is the scummiest thing that has happened in this thread. And bvy god you should have been lynched for it days ago. It even caused ToutEstChaos to change his mind and make you his number one scum read. A confirmed town thinks you were the most likely scum. You shat all over the thread. You have barely scum hunted despite a lengthy filter. You have proven that you are aware of your meta so that is now useless. You employed Wifom to mask your scumslips and scum meta. Marv defended you before he was caught. Hapa defended you before he was caught. As soon as you became toutEstchaos' number one scum read he died. The only argument in your favor comes from a suspicious player in his own right. And is comprised of pure WIFOM and speculation. I have not voted for you so now you are lying or not reading. And the case against you is far more than you 'fucking with me' which in itself is far to simplistic an explanation. Then ends with this post: On October 10 2012 08:36 DarthPunk wrote:On October 10 2012 08:35 kushm4sta wrote:
gg dp. If I flip town will you admit that you are bad? because that would almost make it worth it. LOL. So bad I caught you twice in a row. You are not flipping town. Obviously. Also: On October 10 2012 08:41 DarthPunk wrote:On October 10 2012 08:39 kushm4sta wrote:
dp this is important: if I flip town are you bad? You aren't flipping town kush. Now what's interesting about this is that he finds me scummy for including the possibility that kush may flip town. If he thinks kush will flip scum, for sure, as he says, why is he targeting me for considering this possibility?. One may think that he thinks I'm trying to defend my scumbuddy. But that's not what he includes here: On October 10 2012 14:12 DarthPunk wrote:On October 10 2012 14:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
Kush, you are acting a lot more townie this game when confronted to a lynch.
I find it weird how DP is making no mention of this, since he's the "kush expert" here I have mentioned it. I have also mentioned how he is aware of his meta and has employed it in WIFOM bombing me. So he could easily have changed it. And lets be honest. Getting caught so fast last game would have been an obvious catalyst for working on an incredibly transparent meta. This is not the first time he has been confronted with pressure and I would have originally thought this was a town tell for kush. I even had a town read on him when I replaced in. But his WIFOM against me showed a willingness to both abuse and alter his meta. To the point where I don;t feel it is enough to clear him Especially with the multiple scummy things he has done. Also. If you feel that kush is town. Then you should unvote him. Voting for someone and then protesting that vote is scummy as fuck. In fact. The biggest thing that makes me wary of lynching Kush is that you seem to be trying to milk town cred if Kush flips green.In fact. That is very very scummy. So, Darthpunk, are you or are you not sure that he is scum? You attack me for considering that he might be townie, yet you make that same consideration yourself? Very weird. Very weird indeed.
Also, his only scumhunting from the last three pages is this list: On October 07 2012 16:20 DarthPunk wrote:
Also. Where the fuck are:
Shiao Pi
Mattchew
BloodyC0bbler
These are experienced players that have had almost zero thread presence since I replaced in to the game.
I mean I think Kush is scummy as shit. But at least he is making a contribution and posting. Even if his posts are crap. They exist and he has thread presence.
And a couple of other aggressive cases against ShiaoPi. He also reiterates the meta arguments brought up by our smurfy friend ToutEstChaos. Another useless post: On October 09 2012 11:03 DarthPunk wrote:
I have to agree with Keirathi about sloosh. Even as 3rd party he contributed more than he has this game. And he even pushed a case on scum S&B. This game I barely even know he is playing. He hasn't really scum hunted and combined with switching off the node wagon back to shady he looks very suspicious.
I also agree that it is strange for hapa to have pushed risk so hard if he was town. I know this is somewhat WIFOM. But I don't see the point of Immediately pushing your scum buddy after you lose marv.
I feel Like VE fits into that whole group of scummy/lurking vets.
BC
Matt
Sloosh
VE etc.
They can't all be scum. But out of that group I think Matt and Sloosh look the worst.
Also Shiao Pi continues to lurk so I don;t know wtf is up with him. Yeah his meta has him sort of inactive. But not as badly as this game. It could be a by product of the boring past cycles. But I would be watching him.
So DP has spent much of the last three pages in his filtering tunneling kush, and made some posts that seem more like he's giving off the impression he wants to scumhunt without generally doing so. He's also criticizing me for something he himself noted earlier on, but quickly changed his mind on the subject. It seems to me like he's seizing the opportunity to use kush as an excuse to not bother reading the thread. His "suspicion" on me seems fake as all hell, and I think he's scum. #Fos DarthPunk Yea. So you are not trying to mislynch me off the back of kush? Except the majority of your case is about me tunnelling kush and not thinking he is townie. Cool story. The rest is just shit. On October 12 2012 09:34 DarthPunk wrote:
I believe that VE is a cop of some description. Claiming to trade one for one with Kush of all people is just silly. Especially after Scum lost Marv and Hapa consecutively. What you are suggesting is that after scum lost two members the rest of them decide that VisceraEyes known to be a good scum player should fake claim cop with a green check on kush.
I find that scenario INCREDIBLY unlikely. Sanity is certainly in question. AS is the possibility of a framer or something similar. But we should not be lynching VE right now.
I find it very interesting that Z - Boson has dropped his pressure of me. Despite what he 'foresaw' (despite thinking it was highly unlikely) in his case coming true.
I want to lynch Z - Boson. He clearly tried to entrap me with a green kush flip and his case relied upon this. Despite his vote for kush and stating kush was 75% red.
He also stopped the lynch of scum day one by throwing away his vote. Even though he says he wasnted neither to get lynched. What he was actually doing, and every thinking rational individual would know this, was lynching shady and saving scum.
His 'I thought neither was scum so voted for neither' Is silly as it was clear that his actions would cause a shady lynch. And save node.
What he actually did with his vote was: I prefer shady to be lynched rather than node.
That is Scummy. Combine it with trying to entrap me with clear foreknowledge of kush's flip Despite calling him red and voting for him.
he expressed doubt over kush;s alignment. And instead of attempting to lynch someone else like the others who doubted the claim. He used his doubt to set up a further mislynch
Z- Boson is scum and must be lynched. On October 11 2012 10:45 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 10:40 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:39 DarthPunk wrote:On October 11 2012 10:35 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 11 2012 10:30 DarthPunk wrote:On October 11 2012 10:27 Coagulation wrote:
im pretty sure kush is town now.. Yeah, He seems pretty townie in the face of death. Who would you rather lynch? So now you are saying that huh? Didn't that make me scummy? I am not using it to get a mislynch buddy. Like you did. are you on drugs? wtf are you talking about You didn't say oh kush is townie lets not lynch him. You said why doesn't DP think kush is townie. He is suspicious for that. All the while still voting kush and setting up a mislynch on me if kush flipped green. That is the key difference in motivation between being genuinely worried about kush's lynch. And having an ulterior motive which it was incredibly transparent you had. On October 11 2012 10:50 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 10:47 Z-BosoN wrote:
Ulterior motive my balls, I was very clear in my thoughts You were very clear in voting Kush then immediately calling me suspicious for not thinking he was town and putting in the groundwork for my lynch if Kush flipped green.
This second tendency, I want to highlight even more. The context is: he's displaying utter confidence that kush is scum. So much, in fact, that he (ironically) tries to say I'm scummy for "milking town cred off of kush":
On October 10 2012 14:12 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 14:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
Kush, you are acting a lot more townie this game when confronted to a lynch.
I find it weird how DP is making no mention of this, since he's the "kush expert" here I have mentioned it. I have also mentioned how he is aware of his meta and has employed it in WIFOM bombing me. So he could easily have changed it. And lets be honest. Getting caught so fast last game would have been an obvious catalyst for working on an incredibly transparent meta. This is not the first time he has been confronted with pressure and I would have originally thought this was a town tell for kush. I even had a town read on him when I replaced in. But his WIFOM against me showed a willingness to both abuse and alter his meta. To the point where I don;t feel it is enough to clear him Especially with the multiple scummy things he has done. Also. If you feel that kush is town. Then you should unvote him. Voting for someone and then protesting that vote is scummy as fuck. In fact. The biggest thing that makes me wary of lynching Kush is that you seem to be trying to milk town cred if Kush flips green. In fact. That is very very scummy.
And one more thing: discreditation. Since on LVII Shiaopi was confirmed town, all he could manage doing was going with stuff like "your case is shit", "you don't read", "you are so bad" , etc. He's pretty much doing that with an OMGUS of me and some of his other remarks.
example:
On October 11 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 10:54 Z-BosoN wrote:lol. Clear difference? On October 10 2012 14:17 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 10 2012 14:12 DarthPunk wrote:On October 10 2012 14:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
Kush, you are acting a lot more townie this game when confronted to a lynch.
I find it weird how DP is making no mention of this, since he's the "kush expert" here I have mentioned it. I have also mentioned how he is aware of his meta and has employed it in WIFOM bombing me. So he could easily have changed it. And lets be honest. Getting caught so fast last game would have been an obvious catalyst for working on an incredibly transparent meta. This is not the first time he has been confronted with pressure and I would have originally thought this was a town tell for kush. I even had a town read on him when I replaced in. But his WIFOM against me showed a willingness to both abuse and alter his meta. To the point where I don;t feel it is enough to clear him Especially with the multiple scummy things he has done. Also. If you feel that kush is town. Then you should unvote him. Voting for someone and then protesting that vote is scummy as fuck. In fact. The biggest thing that makes me wary of lynching Kush is that you seem to be trying to milk town cred if Kush flips green. In fact. That is very very scummy. First off, I'm getting the feeling that he could be town. Obviously not enough to shit on VE's claim and unvote him.Also, you are tunneling him hard, but then you make no concession that he is playing differently once he got confronted. Also, you are actually taking into consideration the possibility of me milking cred from him --> so you acknowledge the possibility of him being town? Yes or no? Clear as balls. Gg no re. Are you not reading? or are you stupid?
So yea, in light of his recent play after the night, I'm again inclined to think he's scum, after comparing his play with that of LVII. All of the above, of course, in addition to my previous case on him.
Other fluff
I'm not too sure on iamperfection yet. I'm inclined to think he is townie. Risk seems pretty townie as well.
The meta point on sloosh and shiaopi still stand. I think mattchew/dp make for better lynches today, however.
I remember I had a very strong town read on kreb. I've noticed some pressure on him today, and will go over his filter and see what I make of it.
|
Yea I don't want to lynch kreb. Posts as these:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 18:35 Kreb wrote:First: Welcome Thrawn! =) Ok, onto business. What bothers me is that by the time I went to sleep there was a minor Austin wagon starting. It didnt take off at all. Then some time later Node comes in as a target and BOOM there plenty of votes going his way. Lets take a look at the posts which started these wagons: I guess this would be the first post about austin, and it sums up the case on him pretty well: + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 05:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
-_- if you read the OP you would clearly see above the roles that all in the game are included but details of them are not known.
If their was a role with the name of spy everyone would know about it just not what it does.
You jumping on him for something that is obviously not a role and wanting to lynch screams to me "i found a powerrole, lets lynch it"
You have a horrible reason for jumping on KJ and it screams desperate for a reason to lynch him.
Then theres the Node case: + Show Spoiler +NodeNode is super duper scummy. Again, for emphasis On October 02 2012 09:00 austinmcc wrote:Another interesting mention of Shady: Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:
I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets. These feel like incredibly bad reasons for a townread. I don't see how NoT coNtINUinG TYpINg LIKe tHIs and throwing a bunch of obscenities around is townie. I don't see Shady pushing other targets. Node responds To be fair, this was before he disappeared from the thread again. I don't like at all how he left completely once he wasn't in the lead for the lynch. Now that he's back in front don't be surprised to see him spring out of nowhere. However, I'd still rather see kush dead, overall. My thoughts have NOTHING to do with when Shady disappeared from thread. I call Node out for finding Shady town for (1) stopping trolling quickly (nothing to do with his absence later) and (2) saying he started to push other targets (which he didn't, before his absence). Doesnt it strike anyone as a bit odd how Node could gain so much momentum and not austin? I'll admit that the case on austin isnt the most extensive, but I certainly think its better than the Node case. Especially considering austin is the one initiating the Node wagon. After that follows a bunch of people saying "yea I like this" and it gets going incredibly quickly. Lets look at the case on Node itself: The case is built by the fact that, according to austin, Node calls Shady town for weak reasons. Yet he doesnt say anywhere in his post he calls him towny, he calls Shady "not scummy", not "towny". Also the case is largely built on the fact that Shady would be scum (I agree Node would look suspicious in that case, but now we know better at least). But if the case is built on that we should be pushing Shady, get his flip and then push Node afterwards when we know Shadys alignment. So we have a pretty big wagon starting for what I would call an extremely weak case. The timing of the case is also a bit telling with it starting soon after the austin wagon. There would be clear scum motives to start a rivalling wagon to austin if austin is scum. Also, note how this also effectively killed the austin wagon. Only two persons I could find actually posted a reason to not jump on that wagon, VE: + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well, I went over austin's filter and was coming back to tell you guys that I didn't want to lynch him based upon it, and then I saw two walls of his. We're not lynching austin today.
I'm liking a Node lynch. I do NOT think we have the votes to make it happen. I still like a Shady lynch, but more and more it's feeling like an angry townie ragequitting the game more than a scummy manipulation tactic. However his explanation for his trolling was totally bullshit and I can get behind his lynch more than kj/austin.
And Shiao: + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 08:57 ShiaoPi wrote:
On austin I am kind of split, but I would prefer to not lynch him today because he is quite an asset to town (if he is town aligned of course). While his absence and stuff had been worrying I would suggest waiting for day 2 on him. Sharrant and KJ also expresses approval on the austin-case (page 22) but it gets kinda drowned in what follows. But still, even with three voters and another two approving of it, it doesnt get half the momentum the Node wagon does!Ok, onto some conclusions on what I get from this. - I dont think Node is scum. The case is weak and the wagon strange. - I still think austin is scum and that mafia successfully managed to diverge town attention from austin to Node (while keeping Shady as a backup which they obviously were fine with). People I think come off as scummy because of this:- VisceraEyes+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well, I went over austin's filter and was coming back to tell you guys that I didn't want to lynch him based upon it, and then I saw two walls of his. We're not lynching austin today.
I'm liking a Node lynch. I do NOT think we have the votes to make it happen. I still like a Shady lynch, but more and more it's feeling like an angry townie ragequitting the game more than a scummy manipulation tactic. However his explanation for his trolling was totally bullshit and I can get behind his lynch more than kj/austin.
Abandons austin with no good reason. He says he already has a reason ready after having read his filter, but somehow the two walls of text makes expressing those reasons unnecessary. He still hasnt yet expressed why he left austin. This seems very convenient. Ending it with a clear statement that "We're not lynching him today" also sounds weird. Even if VE is town and honestly believe austin isnt scum, why would he feel the need to add a strong statement like that? Why wouldnt he encourage further discussion on the austin-topic even though he doesnt plan to vote for him? - Marvellosity+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 10:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well, I went over austin's filter and was coming back to tell you guys that I didn't want to lynch him based upon it, and then I saw two walls of his. We're not lynching austin today.
I'm liking a Node lynch. I do NOT think we have the votes to make it happen. I still like a Shady lynch, but more and more it's feeling like an angry townie ragequitting the game more than a scummy manipulation tactic. However his explanation for his trolling was totally bullshit and I can get behind his lynch more than kj/austin.
I have very similar thoughts to this indeed. There are still some of us around and votes are split. Let's see if we can push Node? As with you I prefer him to Shady and Shady to then anyone else. Less scummy than VE, could just be a case of trusting VE a bit too much. Also it seems a bit unlikely scum would line up three of their players to have one post a case (austin), and then two immediately following it (VE and marv). It would be a bit too obvious. However, this post: + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 11:04 marvellosity wrote:
let's do this
##vote: node Kinda strengthens the suspicions again. So Im not really sure where to put marv right now. Less scummy:Kush, Boson, imperfection, BroodKing. Since they are all joining the wagon without any real motivation. At this point the wagon is rolling and people are switching, but I will definitely keep my eye on these four. Overall I must say its remarkable how how people switch so fast to Node because of what I would call a very weak case made by a person who is currently set up to have a wagon starting on him (austin). I'd say its very likely we have at least one scum in the austin/VE/marv trio. Two is definitely possible too. All three? Maybe not, it would be a bit too obvious I feel. ------ Annul, being the first one to notice this, comes off as town to me. I'll look at the people mentioned more closely and see what additional info I can possibly find when I get more time. For now, this post just covers the (imo) terrible Node case.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 04:41 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 04:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kreb , are you saying that because marv and whoever else pushed a node lynch away from the shady lynch that means you're suspicious of them? Shady flipped green so I don't see how that argument makes sense. You say the node lynch was unnatural and possibly pushed by scum which if true would mean that node is green and shady is red.... but shady is green so I'm not understanding your logic. Well, theres is still the possibility of it being an austin-distraction. Or just as a general distraction from, well, any mafia. Theres also the purpose of just pushing for different townies left and right because it both creates confusion and probably makes it easier to blend in (if theres votes all over the place, everything is "ok", so mafia can pick any stance they want and seem genuine with it). I still dont see Node as scummy at all from his posting, and the way that wagon happened makes him look on the townish side.
+ Show Spoiler +On October 08 2012 19:15 Kreb wrote:I've got a what I would call pretty strong town read on BC so almost no chance I'll be supporting any case on him. And its not because of his pretty contributory posts, which I dont doubt he'd be able to do as scum too. Why then? Because of this: + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 07:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 04:46 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2012 04:41 Kreb wrote:On October 03 2012 04:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kreb , are you saying that because marv and whoever else pushed a node lynch away from the shady lynch that means you're suspicious of them? Shady flipped green so I don't see how that argument makes sense. You say the node lynch was unnatural and possibly pushed by scum which if true would mean that node is green and shady is red.... but shady is green so I'm not understanding your logic. Well, theres is still the possibility of it being an austin-distraction. Or just as a general distraction from, well, any mafia. Theres also the purpose of just pushing for different townies left and right because it both creates confusion and probably makes it easier to blend in (if theres votes all over the place, everything is "ok", so mafia can pick any stance they want and seem genuine with it). I still dont see Node as scummy at all from his posting, and the way that wagon happened makes him look on the townish side. You're not making sense. The Node push makes no sense from a mafia distraction point of view because Shady was a townie heading inexorably for the lynch. It's in these situations mafia are usually happy to sit back as town happily hops on to the townie wagon. On Node: tell me, does his posting look like he cares for town? iamperfection pointed it out perfectly earlier: When Node was at great risk of being lynched, did he come in to drop reads and shit? No, he came in to call town stupid, and then promptly left again without making any reads or anything. How are you reading this as townie? You also, presumably from your attitude, find his defence of Shady townie. How? Want to talk about your connection stuff a little. You don't even realise how strongly you're doing it, or how it's affecting how you think. We have: On October 02 2012 08:23 Kreb wrote:
Anyway, time to put down my vote. Disregarding the first trio (kush/kj/shady) which Ive said Im not feeling too good about.
-snip-
Austin on the other hand indeed had a pretty bad reason to vote for KJ. And his obsession with the spy comment seem a bit..... out of place. Cant say Im feeling super convinced about this either considering how early it is into the game and the length of peoples filters, but meh, gotta place my vote somewhere.
As such: ##Vote austinmcc
You place your vote on him and you're not sure at all. Your very next post goes into theories about the Node wagon and how it looked and how it makes austin look much worse (which I think I've helped establish that it doesn't really). So you, yourself, never actually had strong feelings on austin if the quote above is true, until you started ladeling Node/austin/me/VE/wagon stuff on top of it. This stands out to me for one major reason. It makes perfect sense for mafia to push node as a distraction case regardless of the fact shady flipped green. Ask VE or Node if they remember a game in the high 30's or low 40s run by FW with the weird mason mechanic (each player could mason any two players they chose but only two players) where on day 3 or 4 as mafia my entire team sat firmly on two sides of a townie vs townie lynch pushing each. Also pushing node as a "distraction" case would be perfect if austin is red. Why? Because it got heat off himself. However, this is me merely clearing up something I find instantly wrong and misleading. In regards to the lynch yesterday. Not sure how shady was lynched, thought we had passed that when I was active in the thread yesterday. Also not sure how the node picked up so much steam the way it did given that the main person pushing said case was under some heat from people and the votes were slowly swinging the way. Why do you ask? Because node had so very few posts and was easy to cherry pick. The case was also poor on him given the fact that well, its node. The only thing that speaks badly about his posting thus far is the lack of it. Making odd posts like he has is very typical of his play regardless of alignment, and the biggest tell is his lack of involvement in the game. Rather then making a case on his posts someone should have brought up the fact that a veteran player had made such few and weird looking posts as the main tell over his one sentence on his why he thought shady wasn't scum. I am back for most of the night so I will go through the thread to make sure I can get more info out given that I have a horrible trend of dying day 1's these days. Context: I presented my thought in the Node wagon and the conclusions from it. Marv entered a discussion with me to discredit me/my case and to deny any support of it. He probably did a pretty good job of it actually since I wasnt really getting much support, although it was during an inactive part of the day. In comes BC and drops the fact that Marvs reasoning was flawed. Now, why the fuck would you do that as scum? Unless its some really deep plan behind it, if you're marvs scum buddy at that time you stfu and hope Marvs arguing gets support from the masses while I get discredited.
Give off a pretty strong townie feel.
Also, him wanting to lynch VE makes a lot of sense coming from a town perspective. He's had a strong scum read on VE ever since this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 21:33 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 21:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
Couple of thoughts from reading marvs filter, now that he is pretty much confirmed scum.
First off, his reaction to kreb makes me raise an eyebrow. He was extremely aggressive for something that could simply have been a townie thought. Kreb also hadn't made an association case, he simply said that some people looked scummy. Also, kreb said that marvs node push made him look scummy and generally made a weak semicase vs marv. It didn't feel legit and marvs reaction felt forced. I myself don't know what I'm implying but I think this interaction will become useful later.
There's also some interesting info regarding the node push. Marv stated that it didn't make sense at all from a mafia perspective, yet made the push. Pretty much an attempt at clearing suspicion. Now, I'm not gonna go and start accusing everyone on the node lynch because I myself sheeped it, as town. But Afaik, VE and marv basically started the Node push, and pretty much at the same time.
Initially I thought this would clear node, but it's pretty easy to not actually make it go through as mafia.
So, my conclusion from this is: VE looks pretty damn scummy right now. 1) He basically claimed he got RB(and its almost factual that at least one kill didn't go through). 2) marv showed weird hostility on the association kreb didn't make. 3) he co-led the Node push with another scum at the same time -> came from qt, quite possibly. They were pretty much caught with their pants down if it was indeed scum-influenced. Agreed. VE also didnt reply to any questions I asked him afterwards, nor did he reply to me calling him out for a very weak vote-switch to Node (left it to marv to do the dirty work by agressively defending my accusations while also clogging up the thread with plenty of posts?). He has also, should he be town, been either terribly bad or terribly unlucky in his scumhunting. Lets look at a few people he has touched on: 1) Show nested quote +I've got my eye on ShadySands, annul and Mattchew right now. Pretty sure there's scum buried deep within that trio. 2 confirmed town flips. 2) Then the attack on annul - confirmed town flip. 3) After dropping annul, posting this Show nested quote +I'm willing to lynch into ShadySands, kingjames01 as it stands. We really need more content from everyone though. while placing his vote on Shady. 2 confirmed town. 4) Voted Node - no flip on him yet though. 5) Going back to annul (confirmed town) after mislynch. With very little motivation (and refused to explain himself when I questioned it). 6) Show nested quote +Someone shoot him. We can lynch Node easier than Annul, and I want them both dead.
Medics, on me and marv.
DTs, on BC and Mattchew.
We totally got this. Calling for a medic on a confirmed (yea, he is) scum, calling vig shot on a confirmed town. He is either scum or just randomly managed to call out about every single confirmed player (except Risen) the wrong alignment. VE is my top scum read atm.
And then, this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 09 2012 08:23 Kreb wrote:Ok, time to post something before the night kills as I promised. Here are the reason I will most likely be voting VE next day if I'm alive. Also note that a lot of these things have already been posted, but with all the different tells which have been posted throughout the thread its probably a good idea to bunch them together somewhere. 1) The Node wagon. This post: + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well, I went over austin's filter and was coming back to tell you guys that I didn't want to lynch him based upon it, and then I saw two walls of his. We're not lynching austin today.
I'm liking a Node lynch. I do NOT think we have the votes to make it happen. I still like a Shady lynch, but more and more it's feeling like an angry townie ragequitting the game more than a scummy manipulation tactic. However his explanation for his trolling was totally bullshit and I can get behind his lynch more than kj/austin.
is the most scummy thing about it. 1a) He only says he read through austins filters, but he very nicely avoids posting what he found in it. Instead he refers to "the two walls of his" as if that somehow makes everything 100% clear. He still, as of today, has not explained why he changed. 1b) His extremely weak (on unexisting) reason to switch to Node. Someone (who people seem to regard a very strong player) should not change that easily to such a weak case it was. 2) Refusing to answer to said cases and other quetions I just know what I asked him stuff myself, like this: + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 19:54 Kreb wrote:@VEShow nested quote +On October 02 2012 13:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's not the worst part. The worst part is we lynched a townie. That's just a bad, expected, forseeable part.
The worst part is that we didn't fucking lynch scum annul. Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 13:40 VisceraEyes wrote:I really like austin all of a sudden. And really dislike Mattchew. It's going to be an eventful night guys. Sleep tight.  Three lines of text, three questions: 1) What gave you the scum-read on annul? You were targetting him previously but to my knowledge your last stance on him was this: Show nested quote +At this point I'm null - I got a false read on him early on, and while I think his anger at me seems a little contrived, I know I've overreacted once or twice to people calling my posts stupid or something. Once that I remember for sure. Maybe twice. Has this changed? If so, why? 2) Why do you like austin? 3) Why do you dislike Mattchew? And he also refused to comment at all on my other accusations. To my knowledge he still hasnt said a word on the Node wagon yet. 3) The way he targetted annul 3a) His targetting D1 actually seemed to have a bit of reason behind it, but right after the Shady mislynch he says this: + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 13:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's not the worst part. The worst part is we lynched a townie. That's just a bad, expected, forseeable part.
The worst part is that we didn't fucking lynch scum annul. Once again, no explanation. Just straight up calling annul scum. It goes on for a while and the only legitimate reason I could see for his targetting of annul was the fact that annul suggested a vote switch (to ZBoson i think) very close to the deadline even though he had questioned vote switching before. While I did agree on that particular point against annul, that alone did in no way motivate the way VE attacked him. Also, it seemed like that reason only was revealed a bit after he had already started attacking annul, like he found about it later. A proper townie would have explained first and targetted after. 3b) Also he tried to paint annul as some really crafty mafia so the rest of us would be suspicious of him too, even though there wasnt as much to be suspicious of. mkfuba made a good case on that part: + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 23:51 mkfuba07 wrote:Alright, I'm going to be getting a bit more rest since I woke up for Code S. Current thoughts: I could definitely see VE being scum. His unfortunate scumhunting is a big piece of the puzzle, but his interaction with annul keeps nagging at me. Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 09:48 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 03 2012 09:45 kushm4sta wrote:On October 03 2012 09:33 annul wrote:
whats with all the lies by this cabal? "you not pushing anyone" o rly who would you say you've pushed?? Who have you made a good case on? The longest post by far in your filter is a mostly omgus defence. "Rofl"s everywhere. VE has said that annul plays a scary mafia... If this is his scumplay how is this scary? It seems like he is making himself quite an obvious target for lynching if he is mafia. That's what you think...until he actually feels like he might be lynched. Then watch. *shiver* Palmar couldn't get the guy lynched. PALMAR. And his newbie brigade was in full force at the time! Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 10:31 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 03 2012 10:21 annul wrote:On October 03 2012 09:48 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 03 2012 09:45 kushm4sta wrote:On October 03 2012 09:33 annul wrote:
whats with all the lies by this cabal? "you not pushing anyone" o rly who would you say you've pushed?? Who have you made a good case on? The longest post by far in your filter is a mostly omgus defence. "Rofl"s everywhere. VE has said that annul plays a scary mafia... If this is his scumplay how is this scary? It seems like he is making himself quite an obvious target for lynching if he is mafia. That's what you think...until he actually feels like he might be lynched. Then watch. *shiver* Palmar couldn't get the guy lynched. PALMAR. And his newbie brigade was in full force at the time! if i had such magical "lynch evasion" skills, wouldnt i have these same skills as a green about to be lynched too? What's your point? Did I ever say it was a skill you exclusively possess as scum? I didn't think I did :/ It took me a while to figure out why I was so annoyed by these posts, but I think I've figured it out. VE first emphasizes that as scum annul can become "scary" (which I assume means that he can appear to become a good contributor, though VE never actually says how annul becomes "scary"), but leaves out the fact that he might do the same exact thing as town. It doesn't feel like VE is trying to inform the town of annul's apparent meta, as much as emphasize the scummy aspects of annul's meta and attribute it entirely to scum-annul. It would feel the same way if marv came in and said that I can be incredibly wishy-washy as scum. He's emphasized in previous games that I am the master of wishy-washiness regardless of alignment (though I've only ever been scum once, for little over a day). If he were to come into this game and try to convince everyone that I'm only wishy-washy when I'm scum, then I would be incredibly suspicious of him (In fact, I believe that's part of why he avoided talking about me at all despite my case being in the same post as the Node one). In VE's case, it looks like he tried to do a similar thing, and then when annul called him out on it he tried to minimize the effect. Why say that scum-annul can be "scary" if town-annul can also be "scary" unless you're trying to make vigis take the shot without a proper reason? It seems like a pretty scummy interaction from VE. I'd really like to hear thoughts from others, as this is the first thing I feel pretty confident about this game. Finally, I'm still waiting on input from mementoss... I know that 15 pages is a lot to go through, but I'm not going to put him aside just because one of the people who was calling him out is going to flip scum. There are other lurkers, but he's promised more contributions twice now, and we've seen nothing from it. 4) Meta reads This isnt something I can really confirm but I'll add it since it makes sence because of how many peopel have expressed them. Talismania started off by calling his meta scummy early D1. That kinda died off (probably for a good reason), but since then a lot of people have commented on how VE as town is MUCH more active, sometimes/often (?) something of a town leader and being much more contributory than how he is this game. 5) Extremely scummy (or bad if he really is town) scumhunting Already posted about this, here: + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 21:33 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 21:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
Couple of thoughts from reading marvs filter, now that he is pretty much confirmed scum.
First off, his reaction to kreb makes me raise an eyebrow. He was extremely aggressive for something that could simply have been a townie thought. Kreb also hadn't made an association case, he simply said that some people looked scummy. Also, kreb said that marvs node push made him look scummy and generally made a weak semicase vs marv. It didn't feel legit and marvs reaction felt forced. I myself don't know what I'm implying but I think this interaction will become useful later.
There's also some interesting info regarding the node push. Marv stated that it didn't make sense at all from a mafia perspective, yet made the push. Pretty much an attempt at clearing suspicion. Now, I'm not gonna go and start accusing everyone on the node lynch because I myself sheeped it, as town. But Afaik, VE and marv basically started the Node push, and pretty much at the same time.
Initially I thought this would clear node, but it's pretty easy to not actually make it go through as mafia.
So, my conclusion from this is: VE looks pretty damn scummy right now. 1) He basically claimed he got RB(and its almost factual that at least one kill didn't go through). 2) marv showed weird hostility on the association kreb didn't make. 3) he co-led the Node push with another scum at the same time -> came from qt, quite possibly. They were pretty much caught with their pants down if it was indeed scum-influenced. Agreed. VE also didnt reply to any questions I asked him afterwards, nor did he reply to me calling him out for a very weak vote-switch to Node (left it to marv to do the dirty work by agressively defending my accusations while also clogging up the thread with plenty of posts?). He has also, should he be town, been either terribly bad or terribly unlucky in his scumhunting. Lets look at a few people he has touched on: 1) Show nested quote +I've got my eye on ShadySands, annul and Mattchew right now. Pretty sure there's scum buried deep within that trio. 2 confirmed town flips. 2) Then the attack on annul - confirmed town flip. 3) After dropping annul, posting this Show nested quote +I'm willing to lynch into ShadySands, kingjames01 as it stands. We really need more content from everyone though. while placing his vote on Shady. 2 confirmed town. 4) Voted Node - no flip on him yet though. 5) Going back to annul (confirmed town) after mislynch. With very little motivation (and refused to explain himself when I questioned it). 6) Show nested quote +Someone shoot him. We can lynch Node easier than Annul, and I want them both dead.
Medics, on me and marv.
DTs, on BC and Mattchew.
We totally got this. Calling for a medic on a confirmed (yea, he is) scum, calling vig shot on a confirmed town. He is either scum or just randomly managed to call out about every single confirmed player (except Risen) the wrong alignment. VE is my top scum read atm. 6) His post-marv-revelation behavior 6a) After having had many people saying they were suspicious of him post Marvs revelation, how did he reply? He replied with some wierd extreme confidence. Look here: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2012 08:17 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 08:12 Kreb wrote:On October 04 2012 06:51 mkfuba07 wrote:
So, did anyone actually read what I wrote about VE? What did you think about it? Anyone?
Well, a good 5+ have expressed suspicions of VE so far. I dont think we all need to go and quote each other saying we agree. The ball is in his court, lets wait and see if he has anything to say. Please, by all means. Bring it on. I haven't done anything wrong except be wrong. That doesn't mean I'm scum. It means I'm bad at the game. At least 75% of the players in this game knew that already. :/ Here: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2012 09:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
When you line it all up like that it makes it easy to see how laughable the case against me is. Thank you kush. Seriously, I was starting to worry until you did that. And here: + Show Spoiler +On October 04 2012 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
On October 04 2012 09:37 kushm4sta wrote:
You said you were going to read through the thread again so you could figure things out. Instead of making a case against someone you just sit in the thread wise cracking?
Me? Dude, we're lynching marv today. I can assure you I'm reading. I'll post something, don't you worry. It's not about the wise-cracking.
Just...trust me guy. You won't want to lynch me when it's time to actually pick someone to lynch. Im not sure why scum would really wanna do that, but its 100% not towny to do. Compare to DPs case on Keirathi for example, or the french dudes on Shiao. No matter whether you like the cases or not, both Kei and Shiao were properly there to respond to the cases like a town should. VE did something completely different. Also note how he never really commented on this afterwards either, but rather seems to be banking on it being forgotten. To me, it seems more likely he "gave up" or "lost interest" (someone already pointed that out, I think it was Coag, and VE rejected it) due to the percieved OPness/sillyness of the Paramedic role. He probably intented some kind of agressive/confident defense initally, but then just didnt care about it enough. 6b) Also note how he went trollmode with marv for a while (towny thing to do? hell no.) Its quite clear he enjoys playing with marv, which further strengthens the belief that he lost interest/gave up when Marv got caught in such a silly way. 7) Marvs motive behind his discussion with me Ok, this is a new point, but I saved maybe the best for last. Lets look again at the context of Marvs behaviour of my case. First, lets look at what I wrote: Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 18:35 Kreb wrote:
Overall I must say its remarkable how how people switch so fast to Node because of what I would call a very weak case made by a person who is currently set up to have a wagon starting on him (austin). I'd say its very likely we have at least one scum in the austin/VE/marv trio. Two is definitely possible too. All three? Maybe not, it would be a bit too obvious I feel.
Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 18:35 Kreb wrote:
. I dont think Node is scum. The case is weak and the wagon strange.
Later I also kinda halfassed bunched Kush into my group of scummy people. So what do we know now: - Node is scum (I was wrong) - Austin was twon (I was wrong) - Marv is scum (I was right) Now, lets for a moment assume both VE and Kush are town. And with that assumption in mind, lets look at what Marv had to say about my case: Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 20:01 marvellosity wrote:
On October 02 2012 18:54 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 17:47 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kush are you scum?
People have been calling him out for saying scummy sounding stuff, and some people have said that he's not playing at all like his scum meta. Well I don't think he's playing like his town meta. He's known for saying dumb stuff from time to time as either town/mafia but this game he just seems way too illogical, even taking his meta into account. In the last game I played with him where he was town he was extremely helpful and the flames were few and far between. His scum meta has been exposed to be full of faked anger, extreme failures of logic, and constant insults towards everyone in the game. The way he's playing this game strikes me as a slightly toned down version of his scum meta. He rolled scum twice in a row and everyone got to see his scum play, so he would have changed his meta somewhat if he were to roll scum again. But it still seems like he's putting up somewhat of an act, and in the games where he was town you could see right through to his obviously convoluted townie thought process. While reading through his posts in this game I get this huge "I don't give a shit" vibe about his feelings towards the lynch and he's said several things that suggest he's not trying very hard or caring about his vote, and that's not the town kush I know.
Town kush = sometimes says dumb stuff, but you can see right through to his thought process and he's very cooperative in general
Scum kush = faked anger, extreme stupidity at times, and likes to throw around insults very often
This game = looks more like his scum meta than his town meta. He's being too illogical/rude for me to be able to write it off as his "scummy town-meta"
Hmm, this kinda rivals marv's earlier claim about Kush. And considering: -I think marv acted scummy in the Node case -marv kinda defended Kush when early votes started to land on him -Kush was also an early joiner of the Node wagon -You think Kush is playing a toned down scum game Kush could definitely earn a spot in my scummy-looking group of austin/VE/Marv.
Here. Let me tell you why you're fucking awful. You're fucking awful because you've already managed to make a 4-man connection before anyone involved (node, austin, kush). Who do you think is better at understanding meta, newbie thrawn (no offence intended at all, just fact) or me?
Who *have* we had flipped? We've had Shady flipped. Confirmed town. What drugs are you on when you're looking at those on the Node wagon as the most culpable, instead of the people who derailed it back to Shady?
Damn right I defended kush, I think he's playing to his town meta far more than his scum meta, and he's such a god damn easy lynch for scum just to park on going "lol scumslip must be scum."
Looking at the voting list, the interesting points are players like BC, Matt, Keir, talis. It became clear kj wasn't a realistic lynch target with plenty of time to spare. BC came in, contributed some, then totally disappeared. Not sure on Keir. talis may be the worst of the bunch with his awful case on VE and subsequent total disappearance.
Later turning into: Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 05:31 marvellosity wrote:
On October 03 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote:
Marv, I don't know kreb's play well/at all, but right now I'm not as scummy on him as I am on other players, and at the very least it seems that pushing him is just going to get things more and more twisted up.
aye, it's why I've read his response and I'm not replying for now, as it's fruitless. I'm seeing him as misguided townie atm.
Now, specifically note how he is targetting me. Not the part of my case directed to him, but me (and my case) as a whole. Now, why would you want to do that if I only were right about Marv being scummy!!?? Why would he react like that if I was wrong about Node, Austin, VE and Kush?!!?Theres absolutely no reason to. The aggressiveness of his defense clearly tells me I was onto something more than just him. If he was the only thing I had right in my post, theres several other much better approaches he couldve used to abuse my mis-reads. He could have agreed on it, admitting it was wierd (which likely would have had me going straight after VE), knowing that there was a very high chance I'd go after a town. But he didnt. He could have defended himself alone, citing town reads on VE as reason why he followed him. He didnt. He could have not said anything at all, hoping it would turn into a austin or VE lynch. He didnt. Instead he decided to go and agressively discredit me and as such my whole case. And I just cant see why he would do that if the only thing I predicted right was Marvs scummyness. I think I must have hit something more to motivate this response. And while it could possible be Kush, I think VE is the most likely person. Or hell, maybe even both. Bonus point + Show Spoiler +This is definitely confirmation bias if I somehow would be wrong about all this, but out of all replies to the mkfuba/hapa thing, this still stood out to me: On October 06 2012 21:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Vote: Hapa
Twice in one game. Damn fine work guys. Sick crumb fuba. Really? Is that geniune happiness or irony and bitterness?
And VE lynching a townie with a cop claim is no detriment to it.
Seriously, I don't get why you are thinking that him wanting to lynch VE makes him scum.
So yea, I sure hope that he is not really scum and make my ass look even worse, but I'll throw it on the line and go ahead with saying that I think kreb is town. He seems invested and makes too much "omg node is town" posts.
The only weird thing from him so far, is him going after me like (sloosh?) said on the 7/7 argument when he himself thoguht Node was town.
He also says this:
+ Show Spoiler +[B]On October 03 2012 05:19 Kreb wrote: Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 04:46 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2012 04:41 Kreb wrote:On October 03 2012 04:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kreb , are you saying that because marv and whoever else pushed a node lynch away from the shady lynch that means you're suspicious of them? Shady flipped green so I don't see how that argument makes sense. You say the node lynch was unnatural and possibly pushed by scum which if true would mean that node is green and shady is red.... but shady is green so I'm not understanding your logic. Well, theres is still the possibility of it being an austin-distraction. Or just as a general distraction from, well, any mafia. Theres also the purpose of just pushing for different townies left and right because it both creates confusion and probably makes it easier to blend in (if theres votes all over the place, everything is "ok", so mafia can pick any stance they want and seem genuine with it). I still dont see Node as scummy at all from his posting, and the way that wagon happened makes him look on the townish side. You're not making sense. The Node push makes no sense from a mafia distraction point of view because Shady was a townie heading inexorably for the lynch. It's in these situations mafia are usually happy to sit back as town happily hops on to the townie wagon. On Node: tell me, does his posting look like he cares for town? iamperfection pointed it out perfectly earlier: When Node was at great risk of being lynched, did he come in to drop reads and shit? No, he came in to call town stupid, and then promptly left again without making any reads or anything. How are you reading this as townie? You also, presumably from your attitude, find his defence of Shady townie. How? Want to talk about your connection stuff a little. You don't even realise how strongly you're doing it, or how it's affecting how you think. We have: On October 02 2012 08:23 Kreb wrote:
Anyway, time to put down my vote. Disregarding the first trio (kush/kj/shady) which Ive said Im not feeling too good about.
-snip-
Austin on the other hand indeed had a pretty bad reason to vote for KJ. And his obsession with the spy comment seem a bit..... out of place. Cant say Im feeling super convinced about this either considering how early it is into the game and the length of peoples filters, but meh, gotta place my vote somewhere.
As such: ##Vote austinmcc
You place your vote on him and you're not sure at all. Your very next post goes into theories about the Node wagon and how it looked and how it makes austin look much worse (which I think I've helped establish that it doesn't really). So you, yourself, never actually had strong feelings on austin if the quote above is true, until you started ladeling Node/austin/me/VE/wagon stuff on top of it. I dont find Node towny from his posting. I dont find Node scummy from his posting. Geez. He has a whole 3 posts and I dont find anything alignment indicative in any of them. Stop saying anything else. As for not posting more when he was getting voted on, I dont see how thats anything but a very very minor read in either direction. Yea I can see it being somewhat scummy, but its overshadowed by other happening. For the second part: What words do you want me to use? Not feeling good/feeling kinda good/feeling ok/feeling so-so/feeling good/feeling confident/feeling kinda confidect/etc. I use the wording "not feeling super convinced". Maybe I couldve phrased it better, but thats what you got. "Feeling kinda good" or "feeling better than about any other voting target" would probably have been accurate descriptions of my feelings at that time too. Thats ok with you? I dont see anything contradictory in the wording I used though. And my wording feels like quite an irrelevant discussion and I dont like to have to spend my time defending that. Heres a recap, hopefully we can drop this discussion after this, we're not doing any scumhunting atm (the last 12h has been all about me/you/austin/VE/annul/node, theres 18ppl neither posting nor being discussed) but I hate not responding to questions since it makes it look like I ignore them: When I went to sleep: thinking austin was the best target When I read the thread: going wtf over the Node-wagon, concluding that the most likely reason for such a wagon to occur is a distraction. If so, from who? Gotta be austin! Meaning scum read on austin increases. After the recent discussion: Lowered my scum read on austin somewhat, still thinking the wagon is scummy as hell, considering other reasons as to why said wagon was started.
Even when earlier he said Node was pretty townie, which seemed weird to me.
Don't get me wrong, there's a chance that he's a scum dedicated to lynching VE who loves openly defending his scumbuddies, but it's not what I think atm, and I think there are much better lynch choices for today.
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EPT
