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On October 01 2012 02:09 Djodref wrote:
Also Remedy is too much of a lurker. I don't think we are going to encounter lylo or mylo situations in this game but I hope that we can get something of him before this...
This was a reason I made a post about him. Granted, the post itself wasn't on the best foundation and plagued by some misinterpretations, but it was an effort to get his input on things. You can see that he posted a large post after me, and that's it. I respect his defense, and I'm curious to hear what he thinks about the Debears situation, or the other cases made earlier on night 1.
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Thoughts on night actions:
On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote:
LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save!
I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order:
Debears
Djodref
Alsn
From my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end.
What does everyone else think?
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On October 01 2012 07:47 RemedySC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 05:56 Omniscient4983 wrote:Thoughts on night actions:On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote:
LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save! I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order:
Debears
Djodref
AlsnFrom my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end. What does everyone else think? Omni, you seem very sure of your prediction, and actually very detailed. Maybe a mafia trying to cover up after a bad night? At first you say you are guessing, but by your second paragraph you seem pretty sure of yourself. I'm pointing this out because there are many more possibilities as to what happened, and I think speculating on this a waste of time. Also this could be a way of sidetracking the discussion. As for what else could have happened - 1) Scum could have hit someone (DarthPunk or otherwise) and they were saved/jailed 2) A JK jailed the scum who took the shot. 3) Whoever got shot was a veteran 4) Scum didn't send in night actions (Not likely) That's why I think your "thoughts" are more mafia motivated. ##FOS Omniscient4983
If you're saved by a medic, don't you get a PM that states this? The reason I quoted Darth was because he stated that a medic saved him. Was this an assumption on his part? I took it as truth.
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@RemedySC
On October 01 2012 11:06 RemedySC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 08:25 Omniscient4983 wrote:On October 01 2012 07:47 RemedySC wrote:On October 01 2012 05:56 Omniscient4983 wrote:Thoughts on night actions:On October 01 2012 05:14 DarthPunk wrote:
LOL. Seems scum really went for it. Nice medic save! I'm guessing scum targeted Darth, and the medic saved him. He was the obvious candidate for NK, but the mafia tried to kill him anyway despite there being a high chance that a medic would be on him. This means that scum is desperate to get Darth out of the game. Why? Not only was he correct about Kush, but he gave his 3 top scum reads during the night in this order:
Debears
Djodref
AlsnFrom my perspective: since scum targeted Darth, one of his three reads has a high likelihood of being correct. If he was headed in the wrong direction with these reads, scum would have taken out someone else and let him lead us astray. Attempting to NK Darth was a huge risk, but I believe it's one scum had to take because he was so on track, and having him alive would spell their doom in the end. What does everyone else think? Omni, you seem very sure of your prediction, and actually very detailed. Maybe a mafia trying to cover up after a bad night? At first you say you are guessing, but by your second paragraph you seem pretty sure of yourself. I'm pointing this out because there are many more possibilities as to what happened, and I think speculating on this a waste of time. Also this could be a way of sidetracking the discussion. As for what else could have happened - 1) Scum could have hit someone (DarthPunk or otherwise) and they were saved/jailed 2) A JK jailed the scum who took the shot. 3) Whoever got shot was a veteran 4) Scum didn't send in night actions (Not likely) That's why I think your "thoughts" are more mafia motivated. ##FOS Omniscient4983 If you're saved by a medic, don't you get a PM that states this? The reason I quoted Darth was because he stated that a medic saved him. Was this an assumption on his part? I took it as truth. . Also you point out three people, which out of the three you say there is a high likelihood of one being scum. So i'm going to ask, who is your top scum read?
Debears without a doubt. Djodref I see as leaning town and Alsn is still pretty null / slightly scum for me, even after previewing some cases against him.
I was suspicious of Debears ever since I questioned his claiming Djodref as town. I find that he has a ton of posts throughout the thread, many that are long cases against various people. At the beginning of night 1, I thought we should move away from him to pursue other cases; however, since that time, I think a lot of his posts are attempting to deflect attention away from him and at other people. It isn't that these posts are void of content, it is that they seem extensive and overbearing as if to crowd the thread with information that isn't anti-debears.
As for my vote:
##Vote Debears
@Alsn
On October 01 2012 23:45 Alsn wrote:@OmniscientI'd like you to respond to RemedySC's questions, but I'd also like to ask you about the following quote: Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 01:46 Omniscient4983 wrote:
@stutters
I'm inclined to agree here. Seems like you kind of jumped on the anti-Kush bandwagon without much thought. Admittedly, I didn't like his early play either, but I'm interested in hearing what you have to say concerning it. What made you suspect that stutters suddenly jumped the kush bandwagon? At that point there wasn't even much of a wagon to jump onto. Yes, Darth had been pressuing kush pretty hard, but other than that people had been mostly cautious at that stage. I would argue that Stutters and SDM actually caused the wagon.
I questioned Stutters for bandwagoning because of this brief post:
On September 29 2012 00:00 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm awake. Catching up now.
First impression is I really don't like Kush's early play.
At the time, it looked like he had just kind of taken the flavor of the thread (which was, through and through, anti-Kush after the YOU ARE SCUM accusation by Darth) and posted it into his "I'm back!" post. It was a few hours since this post, and he had not posted since. The "first impression" seemed like the only input he was giving. You'll see that about an hour or so after my post (and a few after his), he gives his thoughts and opinions here:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 02:27 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 01:36 kushm4sta wrote:On September 29 2012 00:00 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm awake. Catching up now.
First impression is I really don't like Kush's early play.
Reading everything more in depth now. I'm sorry you don't like my early play. Care to expand on that? I don't like your early play either, except I will tell you why: you are a lurker. It's been several hours since you said you read everything in depth, why not share your thoughts then? On September 28 2012 07:41 Stutters695 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 07:08 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote:
@sonic
getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. Encouraging newbie towns to post is more important than typing out the same things I've said about lurker policy in XXVI and XXVII yet again: If we don't have a good scum case (lurker or active) by late d1, we lynch the most suspicious lurker. We should obviously be looking to avoid that scenario by scum hunting. That's really all that needs to be said as far as I'm concerned. Agreed but, regrettably, there isn't really anything else to talk about this early. To second his point about townies being active, don't get intimidated if you aren't really sure how to make a case and stop posting. Long cases aren't the only way to catch scum so if you feel overwhelmed sick around and ask questions. Demand answers for things you find wrong. Even if it doesn't directly catch a scum it provides insight into both you and the person you question. Silence allows the scum to hide very easily without having to do anything. This is your first post. Let me summarize: 1 theres nothing to talk about d1 2 townies should be active So you didn't actually give your lurker policy. 1 is just anti town. A lot of stuff has happened that you can talk about. 2 is just obvious beyond obvious. Alright, here are my thoughts. Starting with this post (^). You have issues with reading or you're misrepresenting intentionally. I said "there isn't anything to talk about this early. As in the time of posting that what can we discuss except lurker and simple policy that has nothing to do with a case. Number two is obvious because you have played multiple games. Not everyone has. My first game I played like I described in my post and was dead weight. I was carried and simply posting more would have helped out with that. Even if it is completely obvious to everyone in the game it still was worth saying. It gave you something to accuse me with, which opens up discussion. Now onto your other case of misrepresenting (Full quote in spoiler for context, relevant part is immediately after). + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 00:35 kushm4sta wrote:Darthpunk 1 You ask people what they think of me, Then when they don't tell you the exact answer you want to hear, you accuse them of defending me. What you meant was agree with me about kush or I will FOS you.
2 Did anyone notice how I went from DEFINITELY SCUM to a "distraction" instantly and without reason? Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 21:23 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote:@corrosionI'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time  . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides. @everyone This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST. Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on... Wow. Really? That was not an explanation at all. It was a slip, and now everyone believes his weak as shit explanation. Anyway this is obviously going nowhere. And it is becoming a distraction at this point. ##Unvote##FoS: Kush @darthpunk
Why did you unvote me if you are certain I am scum?He explains his strategy: So why have you already FOSed 3 different people? 3 Darth's scumstrat is not so much to flame but to provoke. Show nested quote +If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy?
This is from the post in which he FOSes Alsn. Not even his most inflamatory statement but pay close attention to his tone in his posts. Specifically, "Savvy?" Condescending, intimidating, irritating. He wants you to get pissed. 4 @Darthpunk at the end of newbie 26, marv said scum's biggest mistake was not nightkilling me. So your supposition that scum would never nightkill me is in itself ridiculous. It was an indirect flame, suggesting I play bad, and that's all that post was. Show nested quote +4 @Darthpunk at the end of newbie 26, marv said scum's biggest mistake was not nightkilling me. So your supposition that scum would never nightkill me is in itself ridiculous. It was an indirect flame, suggesting I play bad, and that's all that post was. Can you show me where this happened? I checked the postgame from XXVI and it wasn't there. I checked the pregame for XXVII and it wasn't there. The closest I found was this post from Hapa that says they made the mistake of shooting kreb N2 because of the gut read Jacob had on you as town and that they couldn't kill Jacob, you and myself at once N3 to reduce the number of confirmed/near-confirmed. If this is the quote, it wasn't that your amazing play put you in such a confirmed town role that they should have shot you, its that Jacob (de-facto town leader) thought you were town. He isn't off the mark in saying that your play makes it so you don't get night-killed. If Jacob had been iffy about you I'd bet money Hapa wouldn't have said anything about scum shooting you. Instead of addressing why less than a day into the game you aren't worried about a nightkill you accuse him of flaming while misrepresenting previous games to avoid answering.
Here he did a good job of addressing Kush, and calling him out on the "at least i won't be nk" response.
The reason I thought Stutters was "jumping on the bandwagon" was because it seemed as if he were taking what was obvious, and specifically agreeing with it briefly in his return post. After hearing his reasons as to why he didn't like his early play (i.e avoiding answering and accusing of flaming), he effectively answered my question.
If Stutter's reasons were there, I wouldn't have thought he was jumping on the bandwagon.
Overall, my slightly-town reads are:
Djodref, Corrosion, BosoN, and of course, Darth
My best scum read is Debears, and a slight scum-read is on Alsn.
The rest (especially Lesrah!!! haha) Are fairly null.
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Oh and I forgot:
@DarthPunk
You promised a cookie, where is it? 
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On October 02 2012 04:18 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I get really paranoid when people jump the Debears wagon with this kind of reasoning. He's making too many long many cases? Really, that's what confirms your suspicion?
I'm not jumping the wagon--I've always thought Debears would be a candidate for lynch. There are many points against him, including the association / defense of Kush, townie reference, meta-based arguments, etc... the only thing as of late that erks me is all the different cases. It seems as if he's diverting attention / spreading chaos to make the case against him seem insignificant as compared to those of others. Z-BosoN made an extensive case against him--reference it if you'd like. The long cases don't so much confirm the suspicion as they do add to it.
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@RemedySC
I'm sure a few people have mentioned this about Corrosion: the fact that he "attacked" Darth, or, as someone said, "cast a scummy shadow" on him. At this point, he doesn't totally trust Darth because it's d1, and Kush isn't obvious scum yet. Personally, it seems like he is trying to be objective about the issue at hand. He points out a totally plausible case.
On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote:One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote:
@sonic
getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread.
Later, he mentions that Kush is indeed suspicious but doesn't want to focus on one person like Darth is. I don't see it as scum-motivation or an attack on Darth. I see it as common sense.
As for my post saying that his second reason for voting Kush was ridiculous: it was. It has nothing to do with Kush. He basically says that it would be better to pull a name out of a hat and lynch them than have a no-lynch.
However, I think he's coming off as genuinely newbie-town. He's trying to contribute. I also find this post to be very town-like.
On October 01 2012 00:29 corrosion wrote:Darth's response was clear and to the point (pointing out the error in my post). I liked it. I also think Remedy made good points: + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 23:15 RemedySC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote:
Let me just state the reasons that my vote is on Kush right now:
I'm sorry, but I don't believe these are reasons a town would choose to make a vote. Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote:
1) I think his explanation of the slip was poor. If he had given a good explanation, I might have believed him. So the scum slip itself doesn't give you good reason to vote for him, but his poor defense does? A mafia making a scum slip could have the best explanation in the world. That doesn't exonerate them. Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote:
2) I've been thinking about who would benefit if the result is a no-lynch. I'm thinking mafia is likely to benefit the most from a no-lynch.
So your second reason isn't even something that Kush has done. Wouldn't you also say that mafia would benefit from a mis-lynch more than from a no-lynch? Could you elaborate more on the bolded part, because you give no explanation as to how a mafia would benefit more from a no-lynch. Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote:
Right now, I think that there's more than a 25 % chance that Kush is scum. Therefore, I'm voting for him. I'm not sure if any of these points are original. I'm having trouble keeping up with the thread, because I tend to get hanged up in details.
You would think a town would want to be more than 25% sure the person they are voting for is scum. You don't even have any cases made against kush. No questions asked. Very vague reasons given... This looks like good scum-hunting to me. Well done.
He likes the feedback he is getting. If he were scum, he likely would have gotten very defensive about these points in efforts to exonerate himself. He admits faults; something I think scum would have a hard time doing.
That is just, in brief, why i have a slight-town read on Corrosion. Nothing decisive as of yet. Unfortunately, he says he won't be around to post much more, and can't be sure on my read of him if he ceases to post.
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On October 02 2012 07:32 debears wrote:
@omniscient
What would you rather me do?
1) post nothing
2) post worthless shit spread out
3) post cases all in one post
4) Be decisive.
The thread doesn't need to know every thought you have. You're talking about this person, then that person, then that guy over there. It's not that these cases aren't truthful/don't hold merit. I just find all of it to be a bit excessive. I apologize if it's inherently wrong to view it in such a manner.
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I'll be reviewing the Alsn case tomorrow after my classes let out. I should be getting home just before lynch time, so I hope can get my thoughts in about Alsn. I'll consider changing my vote based upon these observations. Good night, gentlemen. See you at the gallows.
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EPT
