TL Mafia LVII

On August 25 2012 05:49 Toadesstern wrote:
so we meet again mr BC. bets on who'll die first this time?

On August 27 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote:

Play! judging by the roster its gonna be a pretty average game. I dont think there are any vets yet.

On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.

---

The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.

That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.

On September 04 2012 11:10 Mattchew wrote:

?

On September 04 2012 11:25 Hapahauli wrote:


You did read the setup right?

On September 04 2012 11:34 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Anyway - ##vote BloodyC0bbler. Nosy Neigbor specifies that you will not know who you visited, not "you will not know that you are the nosy neighbor" which implies that they would at least know they are the nosy neighbor.

Nosy Neighbor makes a lot of sense as a scum fakeclaim it's probably what I would claim if I had to and thinking about SNB from Death Note mafia I have no reason to implicitly trust mattchew but the fact that you're throwing suspicion on him this early and this stupidly is completely consistent with your scum meta so bye

On September 04 2012 11:34 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Anyway - ##vote BloodyC0bbler. Nosy Neigbor specifies that you will not know who you visited, not "you will not know that you are the nosy neighbor" which implies that they would at least know they are the nosy neighbor.

Nosy Neighbor makes a lot of sense as a scum fakeclaim it's probably what I would claim if I had to and thinking about SNB from Death Note mafia I have no reason to implicitly trust mattchew but the fact that you're throwing suspicion on him this early and this stupidly is completely consistent with your scum meta so bye

On September 04 2012 11:40 Hapahauli wrote:


So your rationale is "How would a miller know they are a miller?"

Well if he's telling the truth, he would know he's a Nosy Neighbor, because according to the setup rules, he would have knowledge of his title.

Thus if telling the truth, he would know he's a miller.

So... you're 100% sure he's lying? Something I'm missing here?

On September 04 2012 11:46 BlackMamba24 wrote:
1. Burden of proof is on you to prove mattchew is lying

2. whether or not it makes sense as a fakeclaim does not indicate his alignment whatsoever. your case is that you know 100% he is lying, ok and on what grounds can you support that? you haven't shown any so far

bad bc

On September 04 2012 11:51 DarthPunk wrote:
It seems to me that the best play for a self aware nosy neighbour would be to claim immediately. Your whole Argument rests on the assumption that they are not self aware, which is something that is not clearly defined in the Rules. And yes the burdon of proof is on you as you are making the accusation. It is a fallacy to proclaim 'I am right unless you prove me wrong.'

On September 04 2012 11:53 Hapahauli wrote:


Let's do this the easy way:

Is the "Nosy Neighbor" self-aware? Does he receive his exact title in the role PM?

On September 04 2012 11:56 Mattchew wrote:

there have been games with self-aware millers

On September 04 2012 11:58 BlackMamba24 wrote:

now he's making up fake scum motivations for your claim

not even really reading your post just cherrypicking and trying to push his fake case. hes scum.

On September 04 2012 12:01 DarthPunk wrote:


BC clearly stated that he is making an assumption based on his experience with previous games. This discussion is pointless until someone hears from a mod.

On September 04 2012 12:04 Mattchew wrote:

devils advocate answers:

vanilla trying to look blue and draw a shot

blue trying to look vanilla

On September 04 2012 12:29 Z-BosoN wrote:
It's not like it's the end of the deadline, we are still a long ways to go... plus, votes don't count in this thread.

Also, the discussion up to now is going nowhere. BC has made it a point to say that he knows something we don't, but won't clarify. If he did indeed learn something game changing as that, I presume Palmar would have announced it in this thread.

So, he's directed the whole discussion at him, and has disappeared. This is all but productive..

On September 04 2012 12:35 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BC

Regarding the "Nosy Neighbor" claim, I just can't see mafia doing that. If the role isn't self-aware as you suggest, aren't you just shooting yourself in the foot from a mafia perspective? Because if no one else claims, you get auto-lynched.

On September 04 2012 20:46 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Oh, some suspicious notes about Mattchew before I go to bed

1) never outright accuses BC of lying and doesn't OMGUS at all, takes passive role in defending himself. result of implicit guilt?

2) hints at the fact that he might be blue without outright claiming. if he has reason to suspect BC is right he knows he's getting lynched and needs to claim right away. scum, unlike someone who is actually blue, need a considerable amount of time to think about a second claim and plan with the mafia, his posts during the time i was arguing with BC read to me like he was stalling while trying to think of something

3) by saying that BC must have PM'd Palmar he's basically admitting that BC is right that he was lying but yet does not actually defend himself for it which seems tbh really strange to me from both a town and scum motivation. he says "devils advocate" when he comes up with a town motivated scenario for lying as though he's trying to just tell BC what he is doing so he will drop it

i guess it comes down to what mattchew claims now

if he flips blue then that doesn't tell me anything about anyone else here really except for people who didn't say anything about mattchew until after palmar confirmed the bit about the nosy neighbor so i guess we will just have to take it as a lesson for blues from now on to be a bit more careful

i really just don't understand #3 but i have seen scum kinda give up when they get caught in lies before or martyr themselves so maybe it isn't so strange after all

On September 05 2012 05:16 grush57 wrote:
And all of you new players as town you gotta make stances, lists of reads do jack shit. A lot of you are sounding scummy and probably just because you're new, but actually town.

On September 04 2012 07:53 grush57 wrote:


Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum.

On September 04 2012 08:26 grush57 wrote:


NONONOONONO
As town ALWAYS tell town if you got hit/roleblocked unless some weird setup or something.

On September 04 2012 09:27 grush57 wrote:


Town needs all the information possible.
Mafia will already know this information.If it was a blue vigi shot then the blue willl already know and they won't have to tell town without outing themselves. Mafia will know if there were vigi shots because they killed the other people.

On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:

Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew.

This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa?

On September 05 2012 05:41 Gravan wrote:
This post is passive and is just here to give you guys some information about me.

I am reading through all the filters and will be making a real contributive post sometime soon. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I ought to have. For some reason, I can't seem to access the voting link from my phone - I am trying to work out when the vote is due, but I will be submitting one in a few hours after reading and pondering, once I get back to my computer. I hope I am not missing a deadline because I really would not like to be modkilled so early on.

I am done traveling after today, so I will be properly active very shortly. Sorry for lurking and not contributing.

Again, sorry for the spam, hello and expect to start hearing from me.

On September 05 2012 05:44 Bill Murray wrote:
BC says coaching is scum

bc coaches grush in the same post
*facepalm* smh

On September 05 2012 05:52 Bill Murray wrote:

I disagree. His post feels sincere to me. He is letting us know why he hasn't been posting, is apologetic, and truly American.

I don't even care if he's European, dammit, he's acting American. It doesn't matter where he's from.

Why would you want to vig him for this, when you have people like Maverick defending Mattchew?

On September 05 2012 05:51 Bill Murray wrote:

I see. See, what is happening here is both distancing and trying to divert the wagon. Hapahauli also has scummy interaction with Doyouhas in the said suspicious post. Doyouhas's vote on me early reeks of scum pushing policy on town

feels like a bus... Hapahauli has bad language use which makes him look like scum.

On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:

check this scummy post from forumite
1) misreads the setup
2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit
3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role
FoS: Forumite

On September 05 2012 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote:

A mafia with a role can both use his action and take a shot. As an example, the mafia Vig can 'visit' and shoot two different players in the same night.
I don't follow how the Scum KP mechanics make it unlikely that Forumite (or any potential scum) would NOT have a role, or for example, how a goon who stays home is cleared.

On September 05 2012 06:43 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BC

Since you're in the thread, what you think of miltonkram? I've think I've lined out why he's scummy pretty well, and I'd like to hear some thoughts from other players.

On September 05 2012 07:00 Hapahauli wrote:
I saw the original post - appreciate you sticking up for me (well atleast attacking bad cases anyway)! I find mattchew's next post interesting:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&currentpage=26#502

He continues his tunneling with more misinformation, which I address below:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&currentpage=27#537

Why would he make two horrendous cases as town? Even after I pointed it out to him? He seems desperate to cast suspicion. Again, confirmation bias is one thing, but it's just misinformation one post after another.

On September 05 2012 09:06 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I just woke up. I'm still catching up but here's my sense of where the game is:

1. Mattchew is an assassin and the scum are the people who came in after the fact or way after the fact and voted without saying a lot. They didn't think critically about the situation and say things like "well he lied....so ##vote mattchew".

2. Mattchew is scum and people who defended him today (post-Palmar) and people who come in way way way after the fact with more empty posts and bullshit (cough...grush57...cough) need to be tracked or vig'd. If Mattchew flips red then Ottoxlol needs to die tonight and so does either Miltonkram or Maverick. The chances that the whole scum team is pinned Day 1 doubtlessly? Pretty slim. In a situation like this, I think at least one will go rogue or try to buddy up to me. I am pretty wary of Bill Murray so there's that.

Not really useful but:
I think Rewok could be an assassin, there are no town motivations to his posts whatsoever but not really any scum ones because they are too bad. I don't feel he has any town motivations but I also sense little to no direction in his posting. Assassins you might want to hit him. Same thing with any super lurkers or people like Gravan.

By the way:
NEVER LYNCH ASSASSINS IF YOU"RE SURE THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE. One of the most frustrating games I've ever played was one where everyone wanted to lynch a confirmed assassin because "we lynch anyone not pro-town". No, we lynch SCUM and ONLY SCUM.

---

I've read a little while writing this post so as an addendum, ottoxlol's early defense of mattchew basically comes down to some weak conditional things that I already said like "yeah he could be a tracker or something trying to blah blah blah" but the simplest answer is more often than right one. Maybe he is a dumb tracker or a dumb assassin, but the simpler answer is better. The fact that he isn't here defending himself well either speaks volumes. the less information he gives us, the better, right? Of all the things you could have said to defend him, the fact that he chose some weak hypothetical that I had already considered when voting for him is bullshit. Kill this kid if Matt flips red.

On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed.

On September 05 2012 09:27 goodkarma wrote:
I would agree with Hapa that Mattchew is almost a 100% scum read. He's done a good job of highlighting why.

But there is more than one scum. We need to move past Mattchew onto pressuring other people. A scum lynch day one puts us in an excellent position going forward. Looking at others' filters I couldn't help but notice that there still are a considerable number of people that need to participate more to help ensure a strong pro-town environment going into day 2.

Grush is at modkill-threshold. I don't expect he's going to be around all that much longer. Until he makes his first post, I consider any time spent pressuring him as a waste.

On the other hand, Gravan, Lvdr, austinmc, maverick, ShadySands, and ShioPi all stand out to me as semi-lurkers. Some of them seem to have legitimate reasons (such as ShadySands), but that doesn't mean they aren't scum with legitimate reasons.

As for things that have stood out to me:

-Obviously, Ottoxlol made a rather out of place vote after it was apparent Mattchew was lying. I don't feel this is a scum tell, as from a scum perspective Mattchew is pretty much "confirmed scum" at this point. Scum would be dumb to not bus him. It doesn't guarantee he's innocent, but it feels like his vote is too out of place to have been made by scum.

-BlackMamba's early vote against Cobbler still stands out to me. Cobbler started the initiative to get Mattchew lynched, convincing me that he's "confirmed town." I just don't see any scenario where Cobbler as scum aggressively buses his partner day one.

Yet BlackMamba voted him with little reason, then turned around and tacked on more of an explanation a little later. BlackMamba's play here makes sense from a scum perspective, as he could have been trying to avert attention away from Mattchew. Also, he isn't transparent with his reads. As town, I see no reason why he'd withhold them, as he does here:





I don't understand why it is that he can't share reads on sloosh and toadstern if he has them. Refusing to be transparent does not help town.

##FoS: BlackMamba

I look forward to hearing BlackMamba's reply, especially regarding his reads on sloosh and toadstern that he refused to share.

On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote:


why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died?

On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:
First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player.

As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later.

Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me.

Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way.

The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be.

On September 05 2012 09:48 Rewok wrote:
Been keeping up my reading. Here's how the situation seems to me:

We're voting Mattchew today. Pretty much no getting out of that. If he turns up scum, Ottox and a few others could be on the chopping block. If he's town, we've got a whole new set of reads.

But it seems to me that our whole strategy hinges on how Mattchew turns up after he's killed. Is there any way we can get another read / another kill set up for D1? One which doesn't hinge on Mattchew's alignment?

I'm asking because you guys are way more familiar with the way TL mafia runs.

On September 05 2012 09:50 Rewok wrote:
EBWOP: We obv don't want to start roleclaiming, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to give our potential vigilante a target for today / tonight. Any ideas?

On September 05 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:


The strange thing is that he buddied up to me and not to BC. Hell it's pretty clear from his post that he didn't read the thread, given his stances on Grush and lvdr.

On September 05 2012 09:55 BlackMamba24 wrote:


and ignoring ottox

by buddying to BC I mean he's taking his side in a sense

post comes off as totally constructed and edited like BC said, this dude is scum

On September 05 2012 09:58 Rewok wrote:
Sorry guys, basically meant this: Instead of just bringing up targets in passing, let's actually focus on it. Like, what's our priority here? My fav scum read right now is Ottox because of how hard he fought for Mattchew, even after the proof was up.

Plus, he spreads a fair amount of dissent - I see his names in multiple filters. He'd be my reco for D1 / N1. But if someone has a better reason for someone else, we should talk about this. Think about it: if we get two kills day one (two GOOD kills) we're looking at a huge advantage.

On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote:


So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1,

some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about?

On September 05 2012 10:03 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Hey, BC, you knew from the beginning that because you were the only one with that information that I was really just an incredulous town right?

On September 05 2012 10:06 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I see. I want you to know that if shit hits the fan and mattchew is blue/black, that i have you completely figured out.

On September 05 2012 10:07 Rewok wrote:
@Hap - I voted for him ten pages ago. No change in heart.

@BC - I agree. We got a good D1 going on. That's a fair point, too. My bad. I didn't think this through all the way. I wasn't going to post at all - I guess I should stick with that instinct haha.

On September 06 2012 07:17 Ottoxlol wrote:


Toad is scum.
Hapahauli confirmed my suspicions by his last post, he's purposely trying to skew the discussion.
I think these two are defending their mates by not letting the Matt discussion go on -> the other 2 possibly are lurkers who voted on Matt with no real content. imallinson Z-BosoN Shady Sands DarthPunk ShiaoPi BlackMamba24 goodkarma all voted Matt after Palmar's announcment and provide little to no reasoning. Bad town or scum can easily be among them

On September 06 2012 07:42 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Here we go, I at least need an answer from BC here. I'm probably dead tonight so I gotta post what I can. If mafia keeps me alive to lynch me later, they're dumb.

BloodyC0bbler - Changes his opinion of m and then lies about it. . First accuses me of being Mattchew's scumbuddy, then later claims he knew I was town all along and would have done the same thing. When he first claimed Mattchew was lying, he was belligerent toward other townies and even claimed I was Mattchew's scumbuddy.



One question on my mind was "why is it that BC knew Mattchew was lying before anyone else?" e also used his first post to call him out. Nothing before that. Scum would of course be the first people expected to ask any role/setup questions along with blues, but blues usually only ask about their own roles. If it weren't for the inconsistency in his perception of my alignment (softly accusing me, unnecessary if he is town who thinks i'm town, then goes to "yeah I knew you were town from the beginning") I would assume he was a tracker. If he's a tracker, I've just outed him to the scum now but he's going to be hit target #1 regardless so it doesn't really matter tbh.

I just want BC to answer to this. We know how he got the information, it seems an awfully strange question to ask before posting unless you saw his claim before you entered the thread and wanted to make sure. But surely you'd have something else to comment on? If it's a bus, it's a good bus.

So consider that just pressure. I don't think BC or anyone is cleared by this flip. I've seen scum do buses like this and in fact I've orchestrated them myself. If mafia planned on bussing Mattchew previously it makes sense that BC's first post would be a call out. I really just want BC to answer about that inconsistency with regards to my alignment.

On September 05 2012 05:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



You have one cycle. If you fail to contribute into the night period you should be vigi'd for not following through on your promise.


All vigi's / hatters mark this target, if he fails to contribute please deal with him.

On September 06 2012 09:06 BlackMamba24 wrote:


we should lynch doyouhas too, this is a post that was definitely posted in the scum qt a few times my intuition is flaring up like crazy over this

On September 06 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote:
Cool. I think now is a good time for me to meander back into the thread and talk about good vig / lynch targets.

On September 06 2012 07:42 slOosh wrote:
Everyone shut up about Ottoxlol and let him cool down. There are much better targets, i.e. people who lurked the whole time after dropping their singular vote. I.e. DYH. And that maverick guy comes to mind.

Fact is (most likely) that scum got caught with their pants down and panicked. You can probably pick off some scum from the voting frenzy after Palmar's announcement. Then it would be incredibly uncomfortable to start talking about scum buddy Mattchew, so you do next best thing, which is lurk.

On September 06 2012 09:16 DoYouHas wrote:

Your intuition is wrong. You should look into my past games before you make a gut read like this.

On September 06 2012 09:27 DoYouHas wrote:

I've been thinking about Hopeless for a while now, but I was waiting for Matt's flip to put together the case (it wouldn't have held much water if he had flipped town). And yes, I am a slowish reader and it takes me hours to put together cases. I tailor them quite a bit.

I understand you don't like me lurking. But at least address my case.

On September 06 2012 08:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



See I am not sure if anyone else caught this as I am still reading / catching up but no where in the OP does it tell me that I can see how many red's there are. As in town doesn't know how big the mafia team is.

By telling us that happa + toad are defending matt and the other two are lurkers means you KNOW THERE ARE 5.

So, I say we off you next.


If Palmar said the exact scum team numbers somewhere I have missed I apologize for my outburst and will find other people to hang.

On September 06 2012 09:55 grush57 wrote:

Damn BC you're on a roll, though that slip isn't 100% confirmed mafia but adding that with the other bs he said definitely scum.

On September 06 2012 09:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
BC says the same thing i'm saying about how he lied about my arguments/activity level but I guess when he says it people agree

whatever

@boson my main case against ottox is him not pushing his reads and completely ignoring peoples arguments/logic while pushing his defense which is exactly what suggests that he has a preconceived agenda

no one is gonna listen to me in this game so ill keep doing what i'vebeen doing which is make a point, wait for BC to repeat it so that everyone suddenly agrees lol

On September 06 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:


Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but isn't he suggesting 4 mafia members in that post? At the time he made that post, I was under the impression that he thought Mattchew was town.

On September 06 2012 10:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

the 5 mafia slip is the least important part of the whole thing because even I just assumed there were 5 scum, in fact idr if i posted it but i might have posted a scumteam guess that was exactly 5

On September 06 2012 10:08 DoYouHas wrote:
@BC and Toad - I disagree. If Matt wasn't red then Hopeless' actions no longer are an attempt to divert a bandwagon on scum. At least half my case is showing that he did exactly that. If Matt was green then Hopeless' case on Forumite becomes far more innocuous.

Also, I didn't write it and then wait for the flip, then delay posting it. I didn't start writing it until after the flip.

@slOosh - IIRC getting into back and forths with you has ended up in my being lynched as townie twice. I dropped out of our discussion after I had my read on you. I know what it will take to change that read, and it doesn't involve me interacting with you. I do think it is kind of amusing that you have tried prying at me because you know what my meta is better than anyone else in this game, while I haven't bothered dealing with you because I know yours better than almost anyone.

On September 06 2012 10:15 Z-BosoN wrote:


Then why did you say that BC repeated your arguments and said the same thing you did? I clearly gave emphasis to the one he had just added.
Well, we are just at a difference of opinion then, you think that his attitude and behavior is more lynch-worthy than him defending matt and this "scumslip".
I insist yet again you read SolarSail on XXIV, here, it's pretty fast:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=273717
It sums up why I think his behavior could be more bad play than scum play.

At least now we both agree that without a doubt loloxtott must die.

On September 06 2012 10:15 Z-BosoN wrote:


Then why did you say that BC repeated your arguments and said the same thing you did? I clearly gave emphasis to the one he had just added.
Well, we are just at a difference of opinion then, you think that his attitude and behavior is more lynch-worthy than him defending matt and this "scumslip".
I insist yet again you read SolarSail on XXIV, here, it's pretty fast:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=273717
It sums up why I think his behavior could be more bad play than scum play.

At least now we both agree that without a doubt loloxtott must die.

On September 06 2012 10:17 DarthPunk wrote:
Where is Shady? He had a 5 page filter Day One in my last game with him and loves to take a town leadership position right off the bat as town. I can understand your meta changing somewhat in a non-newbie/ game of this size. But this is a dramatic shift in style.

On September 06 2012 10:22 DarthPunk wrote:


NMM XXIV His Filter

On September 06 2012 10:22 BlackMamba24 wrote:

I was in Death Note Mafia with him and he was very active and aggressive in the early game. Could be blue/ninja though so it's best left until actually actively scummy people are all dealt with before we start looking at no-shows.

On September 06 2012 10:26 Gravan wrote:



Typically, when one argues against another, a counter-argument has to be presented. Since it appears as though I am on some people's chopping blocks, some discussion could be useful. Just denouncing my case gets town no-where.

On September 06 2012 10:28 Ottoxlol wrote:
Come on guys, now you are just embarrassing yourselves. what difference does it make in my post if there are 4-5-6-7-8 scum? If that is a scumslip in your opinion.. I really hope you guys get your shit together

On September 06 2012 10:24 Z-BosoN wrote:


It isn't a lie, but I felt he directed it at me, and I made reference specifically to the "scumslip" you pointed out, while ALSO having responded to his claims, not yours.

I can see a townie being a belligerent asshole. It becomes harder for me to see a townie being a belligerent asshole who spent much time hard defending a scum and gave a possible scumslip.

Also, Hapa does have a point regarding the count. I didn't realize it was before the matt lynch. If he was claiming that matt is town, then by his count, the mafia number is 4. Has there ever been a normal game with only four mafia?

On September 06 2012 10:39 Gravan wrote:



First off, while I understand a player's meta is something to consider, I really have no idea what you are talking about with respect to how Bill plays or whoever this chezinu is.

I included at least three examples. See those quotes/spoilers? All of them include quotes from Bill Murray.

As to being rushed, well, I am just trying to not lurk. Apparently that is a bad thing to do - working on putting my thoughts out there and trying to stimulate discussion.

On September 06 2012 10:42 Ottoxlol wrote:
Ofc I don't give a shit about this game anymore when everyone ignores logic, even you failed to answer my question about why the scum would claim.

@Darth I already answered it. It is stupid. You almost uniquely amongst the player realize my motivation but then



This. You fail to see that my behaviour made scum slip, made everyone talk more about why did they vote on Matt. Its exactly what my motivation was. I haven't been called kid in a while, it is offensive since you are the one incapable of understanding the most basic logic.

On September 06 2012 10:58 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BC

What do you think about my post on DrH here?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&currentpage=46#916

As a further addendum, I'd also like to point out that MiltonKram didn't do anything of significance to absolve himself of DrH's suspicion between his sudden change in reads. Milton only tunneled me a bit and then retracted his read shortly after confronted. None of this should make him "clearly town" after DrH suggested a VigiShot/TrackerAction on him.

On September 06 2012 11:00 DarthPunk wrote:


Sorry if calling you kid offended you. Just internet slang. My bad. But I would like to ask how do you resolve your stated intention of not limiting discussion through the matt lynch, with crapping up the thread, ignoring everyones response to you, lying by saying they have not responded and stifling the discussion you claim to promote?

On September 06 2012 11:09 Hapahauli wrote:


This - he might be playing wildly and showing a blatant disregard for reading, but he seems pretty emotionally invested.

Also, BC, I still really disagree with you on the "scumslip" thing (post below). I think it's pretty clear he was talking about 4 mafia, thus making it pretty unlikely that he knows the exact mafia total (given balance concerns)

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&currentpage=47#921

On September 24 2012 09:46 strongandbig wrote:


Your claim was really effective imo. Instead of shooting someone who actually looked townie we shot you to try and get a double kill. You basically managed to confirm toad and to make us use a shot to kill you instead of letting you get lynched.

And for this game - I disagree about the victory feeling hollow. I recognize that my play was terrible but I still feel pretty good right now.

Still pissed at mattchew though. That was just super dumb.

On September 24 2012 09:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
@the mafia QT

how come no one ever says Cobbler or BC's name right

Cloober

Coober

Clobber

Cobbel

There's always one person in every game who can never ever spell BC's name.