TL Mafia LVII
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BloodyC0bbler
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On August 25 2012 05:49 Toadesstern wrote: so we meet again mr BC. bets on who'll die first this time? Me. If I am town I will be offed night 1 by mafia. If I am mafia I will be offed by town or bussed by mafia. If i am Third party I will be checked first shot day 2. I r going to lose. | ||
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On August 27 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote: Play! judging by the roster its gonna be a pretty average game. I dont think there are any vets yet. No Vets? Sweet, BM time to troll | ||
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On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day. That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today. Just saw this post. You are scum sup. | ||
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you claimed miller. How would a miller know they are a miller? thus you are scum. | ||
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Good thing I know I'm right. | ||
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On September 04 2012 11:34 BlackMamba24 wrote: Anyway - ##vote BloodyC0bbler. Nosy Neigbor specifies that you will not know who you visited, not "you will not know that you are the nosy neighbor" which implies that they would at least know they are the nosy neighbor. Nosy Neighbor makes a lot of sense as a scum fakeclaim it's probably what I would claim if I had to and thinking about SNB from Death Note mafia I have no reason to implicitly trust mattchew but the fact that you're throwing suspicion on him this early and this stupidly is completely consistent with your scum meta so bye If you think I am wrong prove it. I wouldn't make the statement if I was not 100% sure I was right. As such you have defended a confirmed liar and are scum with him. Seriously people do you think I would call someone out if I didnt know my shit? -_- | ||
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On September 04 2012 11:34 BlackMamba24 wrote: Anyway - ##vote BloodyC0bbler. Nosy Neigbor specifies that you will not know who you visited, not "you will not know that you are the nosy neighbor" which implies that they would at least know they are the nosy neighbor. Nosy Neighbor makes a lot of sense as a scum fakeclaim it's probably what I would claim if I had to and thinking about SNB from Death Note mafia I have no reason to implicitly trust mattchew but the fact that you're throwing suspicion on him this early and this stupidly is completely consistent with your scum meta so bye Also given that you recognize the claim makes sense as a fakeclaim you should realize I wouldn't call someone out given my playstyle unless I knew I was right. As you note that it makes sense as a fakeclaim, a scum making said claim WHILE ASKING FOR PEOPLE TO CLAIM. Seriously, are people this dumb? or have I been deluding myself for ever. | ||
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On September 04 2012 11:40 Hapahauli wrote: So your rationale is "How would a miller know they are a miller?" Well if he's telling the truth, he would know he's a Nosy Neighbor, because according to the setup rules, he would have knowledge of his title. Thus if telling the truth, he would know he's a miller. So... you're 100% sure he's lying? Something I'm missing here? I am 100% sure. Nosy Neighbor is a miller role. A player never knows they are that role and a miller is always included in OP as a potential role. Again I say I am 100% right and nosy neighbours are for all intents and purposes a miller for this game and do not know they are a nosy neighbor. This is information 100% accurate given setup information. If you think I am lying prove me wrong, there is a way to do so. | ||
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On September 04 2012 11:46 BlackMamba24 wrote: 1. Burden of proof is on you to prove mattchew is lying 2. whether or not it makes sense as a fakeclaim does not indicate his alignment whatsoever. your case is that you know 100% he is lying, ok and on what grounds can you support that? you haven't shown any so far bad bc You can prove I am lying with 1 action. As you have yet to do so (hey its even in the OP to find out how to prove me wrong). You are right, his fakeclaim doesn't prove he is mafia on its own. However, HIM ASKING FOR CLAIMS DOES. Why would a townie fakeclaim and attempt to get all blues to claim ? No townie day 1 should ever be this fuckign stupid. Even if he gets caught as mafia (as I have caught him) had anyone or if anyone proceeds to claim and a bunch of retard blues out themselves mafia is instantly ahead. Use your head DrH. You know how I play and know even as Mafia I don't spout complete bullshit. If I am calling someone out like this I know I am in the right. So in the offchance I am mafia I know hes lying, and as I am town I know hes lying. There is only one way for me to know he is lying given that this is a setup mechanic. Figure out how I know and you then you will know the same thing I do and realize hes fucking lying. | ||
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On September 04 2012 11:51 DarthPunk wrote: It seems to me that the best play for a self aware nosy neighbour would be to claim immediately. Your whole Argument rests on the assumption that they are not self aware, which is something that is not clearly defined in the Rules. And yes the burdon of proof is on you as you are making the accusation. It is a fallacy to proclaim 'I am right unless you prove me wrong.' No miller/neighbor is self aware in any game ever except odd pyp/ptp like setups as it defeats the purpose of the role. This game holds true to the same rule as normal games for the mechanic. | ||
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On September 04 2012 11:53 Hapahauli wrote: Let's do this the easy way: Is the "Nosy Neighbor" self-aware? Does he receive his exact title in the role PM? Stop breaking rules yo | ||
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On September 04 2012 11:56 Mattchew wrote: there have been games with self-aware millers Thankfully this game does not. | ||
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On September 04 2012 11:58 BlackMamba24 wrote: now he's making up fake scum motivations for your claim not even really reading your post just cherrypicking and trying to push his fake case. hes scum. Yes, the liar is town and the not liar is scum. Drh Logic ftw. Now people know why I play less, because logic doesn't exist here. You are right, I did misread his post for that I apologize, i skimmed saw what I thought was bs and posted on it. He still clearly lied. Give me a town motivation for lying at this stage in the game drH. Please tell me what a townie gets from lying about his role this early into the game. | ||
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On September 04 2012 12:01 DarthPunk wrote: BC clearly stated that he is making an assumption based on his experience with previous games. This discussion is pointless until someone hears from a mod. It isnt an assumption. | ||
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On September 04 2012 12:04 Mattchew wrote: devils advocate answers: vanilla trying to look blue and draw a shot blue trying to look vanilla No mafia will shoot a nosy neighbor and any vig who does is stupid, blue trying to look vanilla would claim vanilla. You don't claim miller. Miller is a mafia claim to explain why they do shit at night. Pre claiming is to add "legitimacy to it" | ||
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On September 04 2012 12:29 Z-BosoN wrote: It's not like it's the end of the deadline, we are still a long ways to go... plus, votes don't count in this thread. Also, the discussion up to now is going nowhere. BC has made it a point to say that he knows something we don't, but won't clarify. If he did indeed learn something game changing as that, I presume Palmar would have announced it in this thread. So, he's directed the whole discussion at him, and has disappeared. This is all but productive.. How I know was answered already in thread. -_- As for disappearing? I am not. I have said all I really can on that matter at this time. | ||
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On September 04 2012 12:35 Hapahauli wrote: @ BC Regarding the "Nosy Neighbor" claim, I just can't see mafia doing that. If the role isn't self-aware as you suggest, aren't you just shooting yourself in the foot from a mafia perspective? Because if no one else claims, you get auto-lynched. Not for sure. Some people will never claim publically until heat is on them simple. As for auto lynched? I am the only person who even made a comment on the claim, no one even thought to figure out if it was fake or not, it was accepted as fact and everyone near moved on till I pointed it out. That claim had no one touched if he visits someone lets him off the hook as no one second guessed or batted an eye at it later or prompted this argument later and his team claims once and hes off the hook for sure until he or his partner dies. | ||
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DrH I hope you now understand why I could only say what I did, and was moderately infuriating to be so limited. However, as everyone has seen and as drh was kind enough to point out in this post On September 04 2012 20:46 BlackMamba24 wrote: Oh, some suspicious notes about Mattchew before I go to bed 1) never outright accuses BC of lying and doesn't OMGUS at all, takes passive role in defending himself. result of implicit guilt? 2) hints at the fact that he might be blue without outright claiming. if he has reason to suspect BC is right he knows he's getting lynched and needs to claim right away. scum, unlike someone who is actually blue, need a considerable amount of time to think about a second claim and plan with the mafia, his posts during the time i was arguing with BC read to me like he was stalling while trying to think of something 3) by saying that BC must have PM'd Palmar he's basically admitting that BC is right that he was lying but yet does not actually defend himself for it which seems tbh really strange to me from both a town and scum motivation. he says "devils advocate" when he comes up with a town motivated scenario for lying as though he's trying to just tell BC what he is doing so he will drop it i guess it comes down to what mattchew claims now if he flips blue then that doesn't tell me anything about anyone else here really except for people who didn't say anything about mattchew until after palmar confirmed the bit about the nosy neighbor so i guess we will just have to take it as a lesson for blues from now on to be a bit more careful i really just don't understand #3 but i have seen scum kinda give up when they get caught in lies before or martyr themselves so maybe it isn't so strange after all Personally when I saw that he refused to admit that he was lying (had to wait for a mod to clear the air) it was a clear sign he wasn't town. If he was town he would have outted himself since he got caught instead of waiting. Lack of posting or solid defense / admission = scum imo I will be jetting off to work and will have more time to actively sort through all the posts after that but there are a few people imo who have made some pretty shady posts. | ||
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On September 05 2012 05:16 grush57 wrote: And all of you new players as town you gotta make stances, lists of reads do jack shit. A lot of you are sounding scummy and probably just because you're new, but actually town. Please follow your own advice. I see very little stance making in your filter and a ton of meh posting. I know this is part of how you post, but please don't tell others to do what you aren't doing yourself. Lead by example and so on and so forth. Besides, "coaching" people how to play is typically something done by mafia to feign real activity / helpfullness to the town while providing nothing substantial at all to the game. As a more experienced player you should be aware of this, and before you go "well it was just this one post" On September 04 2012 07:53 grush57 wrote: Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum. On September 04 2012 08:26 grush57 wrote: NONONOONONO As town ALWAYS tell town if you got hit/roleblocked unless some weird setup or something. On September 04 2012 09:27 grush57 wrote: Town needs all the information possible. Mafia will already know this information.If it was a blue vigi shot then the blue willl already know and they won't have to tell town without outing themselves. Mafia will know if there were vigi shots because they killed the other people. Now, these are just a few of your "contributing" posts. Most of which are extremely void of anything substantial whatsoever. The remainder of your posts are spam and provide basically nothing as a read of you. These however are a very good example of your alignment. Why? Because for someone who talks about wanting people to have as much information as possible, or being able to determine stances of people. YOU DO NEITHER. You have no solid outlined stances, you have not helped at all in further discussion thus giving more information. If you were actually intending on helping you would do exactly what you tell others to do or explain how others can do the same thing. | ||
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On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote: Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? I may be blind here, but where did Darth seriously push mattchew? I see him point out voting for someone who distrusted the claim as retarded and happa jump on him for it. Would that mean everyone who called me a liar for calling mattchews claim bullshit chain saw defending him? I honestly do not see this case you are seeing, I see two people moderately arguing over a choice of wording being in this case "retarded". Everything I can see (maybe my dyslexia is kicking in here) is that they argued over poor word choice and darth never stood down from his opinion, nor did happa. They commented on word choice, it was explained out by both people and once discussed they moved on. I honestly think unless you can provide me any real analysis here a new case as I just do not see or comprehend what you do here. | ||
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On September 05 2012 05:41 Gravan wrote: This post is passive and is just here to give you guys some information about me. I am reading through all the filters and will be making a real contributive post sometime soon. I haven't been keeping up with this thread as well as I ought to have. For some reason, I can't seem to access the voting link from my phone - I am trying to work out when the vote is due, but I will be submitting one in a few hours after reading and pondering, once I get back to my computer. I hope I am not missing a deadline because I really would not like to be modkilled so early on. I am done traveling after today, so I will be properly active very shortly. Sorry for lurking and not contributing. Again, sorry for the spam, hello and expect to start hearing from me. You have one cycle. If you fail to contribute into the night period you should be vigi'd for not following through on your promise. All vigi's / hatters mark this target, if he fails to contribute please deal with him. | ||
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On September 05 2012 05:44 Bill Murray wrote: BC says coaching is scum bc coaches grush in the same post *facepalm* smh not so much coaching as it is me saying that I am watching him I have to explain my reasoning to people or I get auto attacked remember? | ||
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On September 05 2012 05:52 Bill Murray wrote: I disagree. His post feels sincere to me. He is letting us know why he hasn't been posting, is apologetic, and truly American. I don't even care if he's European, dammit, he's acting American. It doesn't matter where he's from. Why would you want to vig him for this, when you have people like Maverick defending Mattchew? new player, promising to be active, and if he fails to deliver shoot him. I am not saying do it right this second, I am saying if he fails to honor what he just said to shoot him. You and I both know my rationale for this as it is the most common newbie/lurky mafia trick in the book. If he comes back and follows through on said promise guy is most likely town. I however tend to lock onto people who make this promise and never contribute as it is almost 100% sign of mafia lurker. It is me pointing out this post to whoever has a gun to be watching this player closely. | ||
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On September 05 2012 05:51 Bill Murray wrote: I see. See, what is happening here is both distancing and trying to divert the wagon. Hapahauli also has scummy interaction with Doyouhas in the said suspicious post. Doyouhas's vote on me early reeks of scum pushing policy on town feels like a bus... Hapahauli has bad language use which makes him look like scum. Possibly but you are giving me reasons in this post that are not really the ones that miltonkram is talking about. Given the specific case he provided I cannot say hapa is scum based on those reasons. Do I think he has had odd interactions? yes, but I think many players this game have done weird shit. DrH, Sloosh, Strongandbig and you BM are the only ones making posts that I understand why you would make them regardless of your alignment. Newer players still have the "not sure if you are new or scum" read at first as newbies make horrible mistakes that make them look red when they are town sometimes. I am going to continue reading the thread to find anything that pops out to me and do as I have thus far and commented on it if I believe it needs it but so far most "cases" made are imo are somewhat stretchy however its day 1 and thats to be expected. The fact people are trying to find scum actively does make me insanely happy though, it feels like there will be near to no non posters thus far. | ||
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On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote: check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Only real issue I have with this is that he didn't misread the setup to my knowledge. The setup was completely ambiguous on the Nosy Neighbor and required a mod to come in and clarify the situation. Aside from that I do get how you made the connections you did although he doesn't neccesarily have a scum role as my understanding of the setup would be mafia choose who makes a night KP given that no mafia can be responsible for more than 1 shot according to that mafia KP change. Thus any "non visiting mafia" would be "cleared" from suspicion. | ||
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On September 05 2012 06:18 Hopeless1der wrote: A mafia with a role can both use his action and take a shot. As an example, the mafia Vig can 'visit' and shoot two different players in the same night. I don't follow how the Scum KP mechanics make it unlikely that Forumite (or any potential scum) would NOT have a role, or for example, how a goon who stays home is cleared. On September 03 2012 22:12 Palmar wrote: Due to slight setup tweaks, mafia now has permanent 2kp. It will not change over the course of the game. Take note, however, that no member of the mafia can deliver more than 1 kp, so effectively the mafia will drop to 1kp when there is only one member left. The way that reads to me is no single member can deliver more than 1 kp. All I got is the OP + that quote to bank my comment off which states no mafia can deliver more than 1 kp. I would think this means a mafia vig can only use his power or shoot with mafia base KP. I could be wrong I am basing this off on the OP. As for how a "goon" is cleared it means that they would not be suspected of a shot on dead player x. Watchers only see who visits and a tracker only follows one player. Given that a generic goon can sit his ass at home all game and never be caught on those reasons. As for my point of that forumite doesn't neccesarily have a scum role is that post BM quoted does not scream "i have a scum role" to me. | ||
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You be thought to be a newbie yo. | ||
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On September 05 2012 06:43 Hapahauli wrote: @ BC Since you're in the thread, what you think of miltonkram? I've think I've lined out why he's scummy pretty well, and I'd like to hear some thoughts from other players. either scum or town trying really hard to find reasons to justify his read of you. I don't think what he has posted is enough to go on. I say this purely because I have never seen him play before thus have no idea if he knows better then to stretch a generic situation of word choice into the case he did. If he is still new enough to not realize how bad that was then he could be town. If he is experienced enough to know better then possibly scum but still possible bad town. I would like to see him post more than his cases on you and his responses to people asking him for answers before making up my mind. If you notice I already did address his case on you and said it was lacking. | ||
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On September 05 2012 07:00 Hapahauli wrote: I saw the original post - appreciate you sticking up for me (well atleast attacking bad cases anyway)! I find mattchew's next post interesting: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=26#502 He continues his tunneling with more misinformation, which I address below: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=27#537 Why would he make two horrendous cases as town? Even after I pointed it out to him? He seems desperate to cast suspicion. Again, confirmation bias is one thing, but it's just misinformation one post after another. Well if he thinks your scum, hes going to ignore your posts against him, or at least treat them with extreme bias. Notice he responds to someone else when they poke at his case and even makes mention of asking if someone else has an issue (grush I believe). What you or I perceive as bad doesn't mean the person who makes the case does. Getting caught up in the heat of the moment or when you are so sure you are right leads you to do in some cases dumb things as town. Mafia making these mistakes this early is possible as well but seems pretty dumb to do given the current day events. I honestly need him to post more before I can be assured of his guilt as well townies do make bad cases. | ||
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On September 05 2012 09:06 BlackMamba24 wrote: I just woke up. I'm still catching up but here's my sense of where the game is: 1. Mattchew is an assassin and the scum are the people who came in after the fact or way after the fact and voted without saying a lot. They didn't think critically about the situation and say things like "well he lied....so ##vote mattchew". 2. Mattchew is scum and people who defended him today (post-Palmar) and people who come in way way way after the fact with more empty posts and bullshit (cough...grush57...cough) need to be tracked or vig'd. If Mattchew flips red then Ottoxlol needs to die tonight and so does either Miltonkram or Maverick. The chances that the whole scum team is pinned Day 1 doubtlessly? Pretty slim. In a situation like this, I think at least one will go rogue or try to buddy up to me. I am pretty wary of Bill Murray so there's that. Not really useful but: I think Rewok could be an assassin, there are no town motivations to his posts whatsoever but not really any scum ones because they are too bad. I don't feel he has any town motivations but I also sense little to no direction in his posting. Assassins you might want to hit him. Same thing with any super lurkers or people like Gravan. By the way: NEVER LYNCH ASSASSINS IF YOU"RE SURE THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE. One of the most frustrating games I've ever played was one where everyone wanted to lynch a confirmed assassin because "we lynch anyone not pro-town". No, we lynch SCUM and ONLY SCUM. I've read a little while writing this post so as an addendum, ottoxlol's early defense of mattchew basically comes down to some weak conditional things that I already said like "yeah he could be a tracker or something trying to blah blah blah" but the simplest answer is more often than right one. Maybe he is a dumb tracker or a dumb assassin, but the simpler answer is better. The fact that he isn't here defending himself well either speaks volumes. the less information he gives us, the better, right? Of all the things you could have said to defend him, the fact that he chose some weak hypothetical that I had already considered when voting for him is bullshit. Kill this kid if Matt flips red. the biggest change I would make to this is. If its day 1 (like today) and your options are sure kill on assassin or random lynch on someone who could flip town (day 1 reasoning's for lynches usually aren't the best) then I'd take the assassin. Only reason for this is if you aren't sure on your lynch choice and the option is deff not a townie I would opt for that. I also think I know what game you are referencing. What do you think of the last page or two's worth of posts? There has been some moderately decentish talking compared to last night. | ||
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On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote: I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid". I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. | ||
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On September 05 2012 09:27 goodkarma wrote: I would agree with Hapa that Mattchew is almost a 100% scum read. He's done a good job of highlighting why. But there is more than one scum. We need to move past Mattchew onto pressuring other people. A scum lynch day one puts us in an excellent position going forward. Looking at others' filters I couldn't help but notice that there still are a considerable number of people that need to participate more to help ensure a strong pro-town environment going into day 2. Grush is at modkill-threshold. I don't expect he's going to be around all that much longer. Until he makes his first post, I consider any time spent pressuring him as a waste. On the other hand, Gravan, Lvdr, austinmc, maverick, ShadySands, and ShioPi all stand out to me as semi-lurkers. Some of them seem to have legitimate reasons (such as ShadySands), but that doesn't mean they aren't scum with legitimate reasons. As for things that have stood out to me: -Obviously, Ottoxlol made a rather out of place vote after it was apparent Mattchew was lying. I don't feel this is a scum tell, as from a scum perspective Mattchew is pretty much "confirmed scum" at this point. Scum would be dumb to not bus him. It doesn't guarantee he's innocent, but it feels like his vote is too out of place to have been made by scum. -BlackMamba's early vote against Cobbler still stands out to me. Cobbler started the initiative to get Mattchew lynched, convincing me that he's "confirmed town." I just don't see any scenario where Cobbler as scum aggressively buses his partner day one. Yet BlackMamba voted him with little reason, then turned around and tacked on more of an explanation a little later. BlackMamba's play here makes sense from a scum perspective, as he could have been trying to avert attention away from Mattchew. Also, he isn't transparent with his reads. As town, I see no reason why he'd withhold them, as he does here: I don't understand why it is that he can't share reads on sloosh and toadstern if he has them. Refusing to be transparent does not help town. ##FoS: BlackMamba I look forward to hearing BlackMamba's reply, especially regarding his reads on sloosh and toadstern that he refused to share. BM24 (DrH) has perfectly sound reasoning for voting for me as he did. Burden of proof was on me, I couldn't provide it or i'd be rule violating and thus most likely modkilled or punished. Palmar coming into the thread with his announcement is the only reason I am not swinging from the gallows or that we aren't arguing like mad over setup issues. I also in the heat of the moment skimmed the rest of a post and misread it and basically bullshitted something not said. DrH was fully within his right to doubt my intentions given the situation, hell everyone would have been within their rights to. I dislike extremely your coming to the "aid" of hapa. It imo was not clearly illustrated by him why mattchew must be scum. It was outed by me and explained by many people and giving sole credit to someone who is at this time under a strong amount of pressure is curious to me. You also prove you have not been closely reading the thread. Why? Because grush has in fact posted. Thus he is not likely to be modkilled. This is your main reason for poking at him but it is clearly wrong. I also don't know why you have avoided talking about key points mentioned in thread or why you chose to give a semi lurker list while giving a pass to one of them. Why mention him if you think he has a valid reason for not posting? I think you made a post that most likely took you alot of time but it comes off as very "crafted" and overall has a sense of offness to it. | ||
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On September 05 2012 09:32 Ottoxlol wrote: why would they get out of any lynch if someone they visited died? 2-3 people claim nosy. Tracker or watcher sees one of them go to someone who dies. They claimed nosy, we accepted the claim as legit. It means an entire day will be spent clusterfucked around who did what or the like. As they claim nosy, if its accepted near no tracker will check them so only a watcher will see them and if he sees 2 people visit someone who dies the non claimer will be the one killed. Even if you figure out that 1 person lied, you won't know if the others did as we have no idea on the setup numbers. As such the likelyhood of town offing them is insanely lowered unless they get bad luck by being seen by a watcher where only they visit x player. | ||
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On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote: First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player. As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later. Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me. Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way. The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be. If you want to make a post history that isn't full of "filler" posts you need to post content. You just rehashed what others have said before. As an assassin hes dead, as scum hes dead. If he was town he would be fighting tooth and nail in some way to get his ass out of this mess, or at least rectify the mistake he made. If he flips town I can honestly say the level of rage all of us will have will be insane. As such I firmly believe he will only flip mafia/assassin with a far higher likelyhood of scum. Why? Because if he was an assassin he still wouldn't claim Nosy Neighbor. It makes no sense to. He is immune to night hits, and until he finds an assassin he would never shoot. In event he is outed as someone he checked dies? Fucking claim his role. He then outs his checks of who isn't third party and voila. Third party has no need to fake claim ever. It only makes sense for a mafia to claim the role. Near no one thought to clarify on the setup and would have been convinced neighbors were self aware and caused mass issues for us later. You much like the other person I just responded two both just made very badly timed posts to my senses as they both said near nothing helpful. | ||
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On September 05 2012 09:48 Rewok wrote: Been keeping up my reading. Here's how the situation seems to me: We're voting Mattchew today. Pretty much no getting out of that. If he turns up scum, Ottox and a few others could be on the chopping block. If he's town, we've got a whole new set of reads. But it seems to me that our whole strategy hinges on how Mattchew turns up after he's killed. Is there any way we can get another read / another kill set up for D1? One which doesn't hinge on Mattchew's alignment? I'm asking because you guys are way more familiar with the way TL mafia runs. Did you just ask us to figure out a different lynch target because you just asked us to get a new one and this seems fishy as fuck. | ||
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On September 05 2012 09:50 Rewok wrote: EBWOP: We obv don't want to start roleclaiming, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to give our potential vigilante a target for today / tonight. Any ideas? I am pretty sure that we have plenty of people who are good targets. Hell we have tons of people analyzing or finger pointing at eachother who all in some way link back to our central lynch target. A ton of people are going to look good or bad after this lynch. | ||
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On September 05 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote: The strange thing is that he buddied up to me and not to BC. Hell it's pretty clear from his post that he didn't read the thread, given his stances on Grush and lvdr. Good Karma is the same person who said earlier that I was a lurker and called drH out for his vote on me (luls it was actually a valid vote at the time) then after a few posts said I wasn't a 1 line post semi lurker. He obviously doesn't know who the players are in this game who have been around awhile. Nor does he appear to read the thread at all. It just shows a level of just general uncaring while appearing active. | ||
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On September 05 2012 09:55 BlackMamba24 wrote: and ignoring ottox by buddying to BC I mean he's taking his side in a sense post comes off as totally constructed and edited like BC said, this dude is scum Also if he had time to make his post, you think he would stick around at least for 30ish minutes and see what was going on / keep posting to avoid being one of those semi lurkers like he called out a bunch of people for. Instead he just seems to have jet. If he starts responding in the next few minutes I will be less annoyed or suspicious of him but seriously, if he doesn't have a damn good reason for not voting like a giant block of text post responding to a ton of us, guy has got to follow mattchew to the gallows. | ||
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On September 05 2012 09:58 Rewok wrote: Sorry guys, basically meant this: Instead of just bringing up targets in passing, let's actually focus on it. Like, what's our priority here? My fav scum read right now is Ottox because of how hard he fought for Mattchew, even after the proof was up. Plus, he spreads a fair amount of dissent - I see his names in multiple filters. He'd be my reco for D1 / N1. But if someone has a better reason for someone else, we should talk about this. Think about it: if we get two kills day one (two GOOD kills) we're looking at a huge advantage. If we snag one red in d1 lynch we are looking realllllly good. If vigi's shoot accurately we will be insanely good. Right now we have found someone I would say is good for a lynch / vig shot. However. I dislike trying to organize a blue vig shot at this moment in time. Why? Because as people discuss it and get into the heat of it it can out our blues. People who have roles post in such manners you can get an idea of their role or if they have one. I would like to avoid giving mafia free blue shots N1. | ||
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On September 05 2012 09:59 Ottoxlol wrote: So we agree it was dumb. Now tell me how come everyone thinks it is a dumb scum play, not a dumb assa or blue? Don't forget he asked the other millers to claim. That can work as assassin for instance. Or baiting a scum RB to claim? IDK. All I know it gave scum a very easy D1, some ppl attacking others for defending Matt, but ignoring me. What is that about? You look horrible for your defense of matt, however you keep saying near universally the same crap over and over. You have been responded to multiple times and now just look even worse. The only reason I think you could possibly be town is I think if you were red your team would have told you to quit it by now. | ||
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On September 05 2012 10:03 BlackMamba24 wrote: Hey, BC, you knew from the beginning that because you were the only one with that information that I was really just an incredulous town right? Yep. I would have reacted near identically to you if roles were reversed. I knew damn well what I was doing and how it looked by seriously I could not let that shit fly. I know damn well if our roles were reversed you would out him just as I did to avoid a potential clusterfuck of a game later / letting mafia slip by with an easy fakeclaim. | ||
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On September 05 2012 10:06 BlackMamba24 wrote: I see. I want you to know that if shit hits the fan and mattchew is blue/black, that i have you completely figured out. Eh? If he flips blue I am going to rip him a new one after game. If he flips black I will be surprised as hell but could understand taking that risk. However his reaction since being proven a liar suggests red. I cannot believe a townie or third party would just give up at this point. | ||
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On September 05 2012 10:07 Rewok wrote: @Hap - I voted for him ten pages ago. No change in heart. @BC - I agree. We got a good D1 going on. That's a fair point, too. My bad. I didn't think this through all the way. I wasn't going to post at all - I guess I should stick with that instinct haha. No posting is always better. If you don't post you just come off as a lurker skirting a modkill for inactivity and that behaviour does not benefit town at all. Townies have no reason to fear posting as even if they make "mistakes", mafia tend to take the opportunity to take an easy lynch and roll with it, etc... and out themselves. Townies need to post to help catch scum and force them to play at our pace not us play at theirs. | ||
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On September 06 2012 07:17 Ottoxlol wrote: Toad is scum. Hapahauli confirmed my suspicions by his last post, he's purposely trying to skew the discussion. I think these two are defending their mates by not letting the Matt discussion go on -> the other 2 possibly are lurkers who voted on Matt with no real content. imallinson Z-BosoN Shady Sands DarthPunk ShiaoPi BlackMamba24 goodkarma all voted Matt after Palmar's announcment and provide little to no reasoning. Bad town or scum can easily be among them See I am not sure if anyone else caught this as I am still reading / catching up but no where in the OP does it tell me that I can see how many red's there are. As in town doesn't know how big the mafia team is. By telling us that happa + toad are defending matt and the other two are lurkers means you KNOW THERE ARE 5. So, I say we off you next. If Palmar said the exact scum team numbers somewhere I have missed I apologize for my outburst and will find other people to hang. | ||
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On September 06 2012 07:42 BlackMamba24 wrote: Here we go, I at least need an answer from BC here. I'm probably dead tonight so I gotta post what I can. If mafia keeps me alive to lynch me later, they're dumb. BloodyC0bbler - Changes his opinion of m and then lies about it. . First accuses me of being Mattchew's scumbuddy, then later claims he knew I was town all along and would have done the same thing. When he first claimed Mattchew was lying, he was belligerent toward other townies and even claimed I was Mattchew's scumbuddy. One question on my mind was "why is it that BC knew Mattchew was lying before anyone else?" e also used his first post to call him out. Nothing before that. Scum would of course be the first people expected to ask any role/setup questions along with blues, but blues usually only ask about their own roles. If it weren't for the inconsistency in his perception of my alignment (softly accusing me, unnecessary if he is town who thinks i'm town, then goes to "yeah I knew you were town from the beginning") I would assume he was a tracker. If he's a tracker, I've just outed him to the scum now but he's going to be hit target #1 regardless so it doesn't really matter tbh. I just want BC to answer to this. We know how he got the information, it seems an awfully strange question to ask before posting unless you saw his claim before you entered the thread and wanted to make sure. But surely you'd have something else to comment on? If it's a bus, it's a good bus. So consider that just pressure. I don't think BC or anyone is cleared by this flip. I've seen scum do buses like this and in fact I've orchestrated them myself. If mafia planned on bussing Mattchew previously it makes sense that BC's first post would be a call out. I really just want BC to answer about that inconsistency with regards to my alignment. He claimed a Role that in every game I have that has normal setup type is not claimable. I double checked the OP and saw that it didn't say they were self aware but that virtually everyone in the thread to that point had accepted the claim more or less at face value. I saw near no one combatting the claim and more asking why he wanted others to claim. I then felt something was horribly off. Got the information I needed and acted. As you have seen thus far in this game and if you take a quick gander over to PtP3 I am like a dog with a bone when I think I have something I have found something scummy. I do understand why you are asking me questions but drH the reason I was annoyed at you specifically at the time is you are one of the few players I assumed would understand how I got my info then doublecheck to make sure I wasn't totally full of shit, as if I was I'd have instantly outed myself and kept your argument up way to long before checking. However once cooling down I realized that I would have behaved near identically if I was anyone having to deal with what you all did with my call out. | ||
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On September 05 2012 05:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You have one cycle. If you fail to contribute into the night period you should be vigi'd for not following through on your promise. All vigi's / hatters mark this target, if he fails to contribute please deal with him. so its been over 24 hours since this post and in that time he has made 3 posts, both of which were yesterday, IE when he wouldn't be traveling and has made 0 contributions since. His other two posts are both filler IMO and do not offer solid contributions. HE EVEN LEAVES HIS LAST POST WITH THIS LINE "Sleep time for me now; I'll actually have some rest by tomorrow and won't be travelling." So for a well rested person not moving around alot. His posting is horrific. I believe he is also a good vig shot or lynch for tommorrow. | ||
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On September 06 2012 09:06 BlackMamba24 wrote: we should lynch doyouhas too, this is a post that was definitely posted in the scum qt a few times my intuition is flaring up like crazy over this I would say the biggest reason I could agree with you here is he has lurked so fing hard then appeared to post this. Also I would like to point out sloosh is likely scum for his insane lack of posting with 0 explanation combined with his near 0 effort to help the town. In his 3 posts he has had since coming back into the thread after over 24 hours of absence he has said On September 06 2012 07:35 slOosh wrote: Cool. I think now is a good time for me to meander back into the thread and talk about good vig / lynch targets. This to me screams that he doesn't actually give a shit about this game. Meandering is a really bad word choice as its a essentially lazy movement. Given that the town Sloosh is generally a fairly hardworking and not lazy person this speaks horribly of him. He also rather than discussing ANY OF THE POSTS in the day and a bit he was gone, he wants to talk about good vig targets or future lynches.... WHY DOESNT HE GIVE HIS READS OR HIS TOP SCUM CALL WITH THIS. He was gone for long enough he should be posting gems of information but instead shows a complete lack of concern or any form of town leaning. On September 06 2012 07:42 slOosh wrote: Everyone shut up about Ottoxlol and let him cool down. There are much better targets, i.e. people who lurked the whole time after dropping their singular vote. I.e. DYH. And that maverick guy comes to mind. Fact is (most likely) that scum got caught with their pants down and panicked. You can probably pick off some scum from the voting frenzy after Palmar's announcement. Then it would be incredibly uncomfortable to start talking about scum buddy Mattchew, so you do next best thing, which is lurk. He now tells people to get off a player for no real reason, says we should look at people who lurked and dropped a vote then passes off two names. He spent enough time this game to find two people who fit this criteria yet doesn't even explain his own inactivity. Sloosh basically did the exact same thing the people he called out did. His next post is a defense post that says near nothing important. The first two posts since his return have in no way helped the town in any way. Given that I have seen him be a beast as town this is inexcusable. Sloosh for scum Ottoxlol for scum as well. Gravan for scum. | ||
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On September 06 2012 09:16 DoYouHas wrote: Your intuition is wrong. You should look into my past games before you make a gut read like this. It took you a day to make that giant analysis post? You had nothing to say in that entire time? Given how much you aren't posting and your previous posts in this game you posted something that looks heavily tailored. | ||
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On September 06 2012 09:27 DoYouHas wrote: I've been thinking about Hopeless for a while now, but I was waiting for Matt's flip to put together the case (it wouldn't have held much water if he had flipped town). And yes, I am a slowish reader and it takes me hours to put together cases. I tailor them quite a bit. I understand you don't like me lurking. But at least address my case. Not horrific considering I have my own reservations about him. Primarily his activity levels. However I also find it very unlikely that it took you this long to write up a case then refused to post it as you waited for mattchews flip. By admitting you tailor it alot then waited to post it for mattchews flip its almost as if you knew for certainty what he would flip and thus waited to avoid being suspicious. You also aimed for a player who has a very short filter and is incredibly easy to analyze. So the case while not bad is not good in the same light. If you keep posting and contributing my reservations on you will go away, and my view of your case far higher aside from "convenient" | ||
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Basically, as you guys all know how I caught mattchew day 1? Well until a mod comes in and clears him by saying the mafia # is something not 5 hes mafia. As of right now, the only people who have the actual mafia size # are mafia thus I believe it was an unintentional slip by him, but one that is unsurprising giving the heat he was taking. | ||
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On September 06 2012 08:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote: See I am not sure if anyone else caught this as I am still reading / catching up but no where in the OP does it tell me that I can see how many red's there are. As in town doesn't know how big the mafia team is. By telling us that happa + toad are defending matt and the other two are lurkers means you KNOW THERE ARE 5. So, I say we off you next. If Palmar said the exact scum team numbers somewhere I have missed I apologize for my outburst and will find other people to hang. For those who missed it the first time. He clearly states happa + toad are trying to defend their "mates" or in this case "mate" by trying to drop the matt discussion. This is 3 reds. He then states the other 2 mafia are lurkers who voted with no real content then generically lists a bunch of lurkers and DrH who has been one of the most active players in the game. But he told us 5. 2 defending 1 and then 2 in a group of lurkers. It wasn't I think there are two more or anything. he clearly outlines 2 defending their scumbuddy by shutting down conversation (lul as that wasnt the reason they argued with him) and 2 in lurkers. Guy outright mislabeled one of the most active players calling him a "lurker" and outed the mafia team # as 5. Burn him with fire. | ||
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On September 06 2012 09:55 grush57 wrote: Damn BC you're on a roll, though that slip isn't 100% confirmed mafia but adding that with the other bs he said definitely scum. Well, it isn't 100% confirmed mafia, but given that it is not information town is able to currently have it seems horrific for otto. I mean if Town are not able to have this information, why the hell did he use wording that heavily suggests he knows the #. | ||
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On September 06 2012 09:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: BC says the same thing i'm saying about how he lied about my arguments/activity level but I guess when he says it people agree whatever @boson my main case against ottox is him not pushing his reads and completely ignoring peoples arguments/logic while pushing his defense which is exactly what suggests that he has a preconceived agenda no one is gonna listen to me in this game so ill keep doing what i'vebeen doing which is make a point, wait for BC to repeat it so that everyone suddenly agrees lol yo smurf man, get on your smurf. Also everything DrH has said is correct IMO on otto. Just read his posts please. I really do not feel like having to repeat things intelligent players are saying as you guys refuse to read their shit. Given that at this point in time drH and I have done near the most to prove we are town I honestly think people should properly be reading our posts. | ||
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On September 06 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote: Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but isn't he suggesting 4 mafia members in that post? At the time he made that post, I was under the impression that he thought Mattchew was town. Disagree. He clearly states defending their mates by not allowing the discussion to go on. The only person the discussion "defended" was mattchew. You nor toad were from what I read were defending a ton of people by shutting down that conversation, you were trying to stop dealing with a troll. The only person who was being defended in that entire conversation (by otto) was mattchew. We know mattchew was red, he gave 2 people ahead 2 people behind. I honestly believe its a scumslip I could have horribly misread it and if so I am certain more than you will inform me as such, however take this and apply it to everything said about otto by players like drH. Do you honestly see him otto as town? Can you explain his behaviour at all as something a town member would do. I sure as hell can't. | ||
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On September 06 2012 10:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote: the 5 mafia slip is the least important part of the whole thing because even I just assumed there were 5 scum, in fact idr if i posted it but i might have posted a scumteam guess that was exactly 5 I was assuming between 5 and 6 myself. The issue being its an assumption. You and I both know that word choice on information you aren't certain of but is gotten via setup types in the past or "this is how I would balance this game" or the like is something that normally carries through. Do I think it is the worst thing otto has done? No, but as grush said. Apply it to everything else he has said, apply it to when he said it (ie right after everyone started pressuring him as opposed to arguing with him) and it feels horrifically off. Trust me, I agree with your reasoning as well I just see that as the item that puts him at guarenteed scum. Hell the guy has just ditched thread completely more or less when the pressure hit him. | ||
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On September 06 2012 10:08 DoYouHas wrote: @BC and Toad - I disagree. If Matt wasn't red then Hopeless' actions no longer are an attempt to divert a bandwagon on scum. At least half my case is showing that he did exactly that. If Matt was green then Hopeless' case on Forumite becomes far more innocuous. Also, I didn't write it and then wait for the flip, then delay posting it. I didn't start writing it until after the flip. @slOosh - IIRC getting into back and forths with you has ended up in my being lynched as townie twice. I dropped out of our discussion after I had my read on you. I know what it will take to change that read, and it doesn't involve me interacting with you. I do think it is kind of amusing that you have tried prying at me because you know what my meta is better than anyone else in this game, while I haven't bothered dealing with you because I know yours better than almost anyone. The posts you quoted at actually insanely bad regardless of mattchews flip. You can remove the section of him trying to divert the lynch and just analyze the posts. -Horribly inactive -Fake voted -has done no real analysis -rehashed info (scum trait normally but not an indicator alone) You remove one bit and your analysis still holds. The guy still looks bad and mattchews flip was not required. | ||
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On September 06 2012 10:15 Z-BosoN wrote: Then why did you say that BC repeated your arguments and said the same thing you did? I clearly gave emphasis to the one he had just added. Well, we are just at a difference of opinion then, you think that his attitude and behavior is more lynch-worthy than him defending matt and this "scumslip". I insist yet again you read SolarSail on XXIV, here, it's pretty fast: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=273717 It sums up why I think his behavior could be more bad play than scum play. At least now we both agree that without a doubt loloxtott must die. I honestly cannot see otoxlol as town. His behaviour seems like one where if he dropped it he'd be shanked instantly and his only hope was coming off as a belligerent asshole and thus left alone. | ||
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On September 06 2012 10:15 Z-BosoN wrote: Then why did you say that BC repeated your arguments and said the same thing you did? I clearly gave emphasis to the one he had just added. Well, we are just at a difference of opinion then, you think that his attitude and behavior is more lynch-worthy than him defending matt and this "scumslip". I insist yet again you read SolarSail on XXIV, here, it's pretty fast: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=273717 It sums up why I think his behavior could be more bad play than scum play. At least now we both agree that without a doubt loloxtott must die. Also I did endorse all of what he said so drH saying I repeated it isn't a lie. I also added the bit that I see as a scumslip. | ||
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On September 06 2012 10:17 DarthPunk wrote: Where is Shady? He had a 5 page filter Day One in my last game with him and loves to take a town leadership position right off the bat as town. I can understand your meta changing somewhat in a non-newbie/ game of this size. But this is a dramatic shift in style. Which game are you referring to. I would like a reference so I can get an idea of his town playstyle. | ||
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Thank you, will take a gander at it now. | ||
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On September 06 2012 10:22 BlackMamba24 wrote: I was in Death Note Mafia with him and he was very active and aggressive in the early game. Could be blue/ninja though so it's best left until actually actively scummy people are all dealt with before we start looking at no-shows. Perhaps but I still like getting an idea of his playstyle. Makes it easier for me to analyze him over the course of the game. | ||
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On September 06 2012 10:26 Gravan wrote: Typically, when one argues against another, a counter-argument has to be presented. Since it appears as though I am on some people's chopping blocks, some discussion could be useful. Just denouncing my case gets town no-where. You chose a poor person to analyze. Bm is like chezinu and incredibly hard to pin down normally. You typically have to rely on things like scumslips to catch either of them or take look at the overall effort they put into a game. Now given that. You're analysis is very lacking, and looks like cherry picking. You don't include examples or even a link to his filter to prove your case. It seems rushed and made by someone backed into a corner. If you are town you should have no reason to feel rushed, you have plenty of time to post your thoughts. | ||
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On September 06 2012 10:28 Ottoxlol wrote: Come on guys, now you are just embarrassing yourselves. what difference does it make in my post if there are 4-5-6-7-8 scum? If that is a scumslip in your opinion.. I really hope you guys get your shit together Get our shit together? You spent the entire gd day arguing with people and defending a scum player and not only are you not addressing all the other points against you, you opted to point out at only what I said? Its the word choice you used, and if this is your only contribution since reading the thread while you caught up you obviously give two shits about this game or the town. | ||
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On September 06 2012 10:24 Z-BosoN wrote: It isn't a lie, but I felt he directed it at me, and I made reference specifically to the "scumslip" you pointed out, while ALSO having responded to his claims, not yours. I can see a townie being a belligerent asshole. It becomes harder for me to see a townie being a belligerent asshole who spent much time hard defending a scum and gave a possible scumslip. Also, Hapa does have a point regarding the count. I didn't realize it was before the matt lynch. If he was claiming that matt is town, then by his count, the mafia number is 4. Has there ever been a normal game with only four mafia? Fair, but I feel from reading that people to a degree really are ignoring his posts overall. I say the # is 5 because the only person they could be defending by shutting down the mattchew conversation is mattchew. By shutting it down and stopping thread from talking about it it would allow anyone to bring up another case and potentially force a misslynch. Keep in mind the arguments being done by otto that were being responded to were still for ages under the hypothetical situation that millers were self aware -_- As such in the case of "self aware millers" the only person being defended by happa / toad was mattchew. As dropping that discussion would let another potential lynch target be brought up. However they were arguing shit for awhile that didn't matter or wasn't possible given this setup. IE he names 2 reds, the person they were defending and 2 others given his horrible logic. I obviously am slightly bias'd as I think he's red and that screams scumtell to me. | ||
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On September 06 2012 10:39 Gravan wrote: First off, while I understand a player's meta is something to consider, I really have no idea what you are talking about with respect to how Bill plays or whoever this chezinu is. I included at least three examples. See those quotes/spoilers? All of them include quotes from Bill Murray. As to being rushed, well, I am just trying to not lurk. Apparently that is a bad thing to do - working on putting my thoughts out there and trying to stimulate discussion. Then actually hit the quote button on BM's posts. I should never have to enter a players filter to actually verify every post used as a reason against them when they are "quoted" in analysis. Any player who has played for years on this site (myself, drh, bm,) in this case for this game a giant amount of games for players to look at and compare our playstyles/meta's/trend our meta is changing. Not looking into this when making a case IMO looks badly on you as the person making the analysis. Knowing the players you are playing against if they are active and have a good set of history to compare to should be something everyone takes into consideration in cases. If someone has very few games behind them then yes, only gauging one game is fine given people change a f ton early on into their mafia career. Ignorance is not a defense imo. Making a quality post even if you only make like 4-5 a cycle isn't lurking if they are insanely solid posts. Its ones like your analysis that seem rushed to have an air of contribution that look bad. | ||
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On September 06 2012 10:42 Ottoxlol wrote: Ofc I don't give a shit about this game anymore when everyone ignores logic, even you failed to answer my question about why the scum would claim. @Darth I already answered it. It is stupid. You almost uniquely amongst the player realize my motivation but then This. You fail to see that my behaviour made scum slip, made everyone talk more about why did they vote on Matt. Its exactly what my motivation was. I haven't been called kid in a while, it is offensive since you are the one incapable of understanding the most basic logic. uh dude people talked about matt before you posted and even explained to you many times. I am only going into this once with you as this is part of my read of you. You clearly have no town inclinations. Why? Because you EVEN NOW are talking about someone who flipped. You never through that entire process tried to do anything other than talk about mattchew and BURY ALL OTHER DISCUSSION. Everything related to mattchew had been discussed by multiple people explained to you and you kept pushing it. You're very early posts were not horrific. They were something a confused/bad/devils advocate townie could make. The continued play of it for as long as you did was horrific. You never helped discuss other reads you only sidetracked the thread. The issue here isn't others understanding basic logic, in this case the issue really is you. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
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On September 06 2012 10:58 Hapahauli wrote: @ BC What do you think about my post on DrH here? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=46#916 As a further addendum, I'd also like to point out that MiltonKram didn't do anything of significance to absolve himself of DrH's suspicion between his sudden change in reads. Milton only tunneled me a bit and then retracted his read shortly after confronted. None of this should make him "clearly town" after DrH suggested a VigiShot/TrackerAction on him. tbh it looks slightly off and I will have to go through drH's filter more extensively to see if its just one hiccup or a repeated thing but as a general meta read of drH from experience in the past with him this looks strongly like his town play and I could go into why I think his read could change that easily from a meta standpoint but unless I actually do a decent filter examination I can't be sure. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On September 06 2012 11:00 DarthPunk wrote: Sorry if calling you kid offended you. Just internet slang. My bad. But I would like to ask how do you resolve your stated intention of not limiting discussion through the matt lynch, with crapping up the thread, ignoring everyones response to you, lying by saying they have not responded and stifling the discussion you claim to promote? You forgot that he said he doesn't care about the game. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On September 06 2012 11:09 Hapahauli wrote: This - he might be playing wildly and showing a blatant disregard for reading, but he seems pretty emotionally invested. Also, BC, I still really disagree with you on the "scumslip" thing (post below). I think it's pretty clear he was talking about 4 mafia, thus making it pretty unlikely that he knows the exact mafia total (given balance concerns) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#921 TBH dude I strongly believe my opinion so I will need time (aka whenever i sleep) and come back to it later and review. I do understand where you are coming from I just have it ingrained my interpretation is correct. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
I don't know how town lost this, I honestly don't. GG regardless, and BM i hate you for missing the vote | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On September 24 2012 09:46 strongandbig wrote: Your claim was really effective imo. Instead of shooting someone who actually looked townie we shot you to try and get a double kill. You basically managed to confirm toad and to make us use a shot to kill you instead of letting you get lynched. And for this game - I disagree about the victory feeling hollow. I recognize that my play was terrible but I still feel pretty good right now. Still pissed at mattchew though. That was just super dumb. TBH I honestly do not feel his claim was "super dumb" as everyone makes it out to be. It was stupid in retrospect but the OP did not indicate that NN were unaware of their alignment and if you read the thread up until I outed him for it no one was attacking him for his claim being fake as hell, but that it was more oddly claimed. Even before Palmar confirmed they did not know their alignment the town should have realized something was amiss when literally no one else claimed NN to verify mattchews claim. That in its own right should have been the proof to get him lynched barring a mod post. Had it not been for a player such as myself, and any other player who has hosted (very few I believe in this game) near no one else thought to even ask so the claim was only bad given that certain people were almost sure to ask questions. For the rest of your team play though I think you guys were slightly too passive and should have exerted a bit more control. You guys could have easily pushed a misslynch onto a few people with a bit of effort and when it came down to the lynch snb died in I have no idea well, how you did. Given that a mafia member was required to get you lynched over a townie you could have coasted safely by never having allinson vote for your death thus auto win the game basically. | ||
BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On September 24 2012 09:51 DoctorHelvetica wrote: @the mafia QT how come no one ever says Cobbler or BC's name right Cloober Coober Clobber Cobbel There's always one person in every game who can never ever spell BC's name. no idea duder, no idea. | ||
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