EPTTL Mafia LVII - Page 86
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On September 11 2012 08:57 Forumite wrote: S&B, what were you refering to? That was a joke. I was referring to the fact that Mattchew said "BM is definitely town" before he died. In actuality, that gives us basically no info because of the wifom principle. If you're actually interested in my read on BM - I put him in the "probably town" category, but not because of what mattchew said. More because he's been more involved and less shitty-town-atmosphere-promoting than his reputation or other games of his I've seen lead me to expect he would be. That said, the "I'm town because I read Austin as blue and didn't kill him N1" is a stupid argument and it makes me pretty suspicious of z-boson that he was so pro it. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote: Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Make a fucking case. Doesn't it seem odd for anyone how easy people are swaying towards me? Were at this stage of the game where we are not in a comfortable position anymore to go ahead throwing votes around without reason. S&B, is it so difficult to think a little bit? Sigh... I was hoping I could get an answer from him, but it seems I have enough. Here it goes: First of all, BM didn't answer my questions, because since you guys are so blind, he threw suspicion towards austin AFTER he "blue claimed him"!! This is surely not the attitude of someone who was "absolutely sure he saw a blue". Observe, this post came after his so called "crumbs": On September 06 2012 13:04 Bill Murray wrote: weird interaction between kobe and austin there, too, and coupled with him slipping in his wording? potential scumteam I asked him about this to see what kind of shit answer he would give, but alas, there is none. Why? Because he didn't feel100% sure austin was blue, despite saying so. He didn't use his main "evidence" as "evidence" Take one look at his "I'm cleared" post: On September 10 2012 07:42 Bill Murray wrote: I BROUGHT HIM UP AS A JOKE then i filtered him, and i was like, holy fuck this guy has 3 wall posts and is the most obvious blue I HAVE EVER SEEN but i didnt want to give it away, so i decided to engage him in questioning, as seen above and then i encourage him to scumhunt, which he does. It was awesome. My questioning lead to him posting a little more, which may have bought him another cycle. IDK. Regardless, notice how I'm trying to get him to engage me in more scumhunting? I have no suspicion of him at all, not only do I figure he's town, I know he's blue/red, and I'm leaning blue at this point. He's not acting as per his townie meta, and he looks blue as shit versus being scum. He could be scum here, but that's why I'm questioning him at all, really, to see how he will react. Well, he reacted well, so I, as above, asked him about Gravan Notice how I'm FoS the "top scum" who is likely Forumite I don't think it's Toad - pretty sure he's town as per meta by now... he's just such a good player, that I'm wary of him. Back on track, and off tangent, the bolded line above is me saying "hey, you're blue, but don't worry about me... im not scum" Now, why didn't he include this post: On September 06 2012 07:35 Bill Murray wrote: Forumite's defense is really good. He's off my scumlist. I just filtered mav. TBH, maverick is looking more like town. i mean he's openly defending himself vs me and Dr.H Seems really inactive, however, so I'm not calling off a potential vig shot there... *looks at austin* Though, I'd still rather someone shoot Gravan, at this point. To clear him? It's the most compelling piece of evidence he has! ,so why not?? because it happened AFTER n1, look at the time. It's evident that a post-n1 confirmation is useless. I include this in my questions, and again, he doesn't answer. Oh wait, better yet, he does: On September 10 2012 21:25 Bill Murray wrote: FURTHERMORE, AS I HAVE DEMONSTRATED, I CALLED AUSTIN BEING A VIG BEFORE HE DIED BEFORE N1 AND HE DIDNT DIE N1 AND I WOULD HAVE DEMANDED AT LEAST 1 KILL OUT OF THE SCUM KILLS AND HE WAS MY ONLY BLUE READ SO. He LIES saying that it was before N1, which is WRONG, just look at the date!! Why would a townie BM lie about this? This is his strongest piece of evidence that he suspected austin, and he didn't use it before. Now, he is trying to use it to tell us all that he knew all along austin was vig. Anyways, there is one more thing to consider here. When I noticed this, I didn't know that if you killed a vigi, the shot still went through. I don't find it likely that austin chose not to kill anyone, so I'll assume he got roleblocked. He didn't bother shooting ottox and I'm sure he wouldn't bother shooting someone like mav/shiaopi. If so, then who could have possibly known austin was blue? Better yet - a vig? Yes, BM. I do not doubt he thought austin was blue. I think he realized he was vig after N1, where it was too late to kill austin, and is now using it to clear himself up. Want a 100% scum tag on him? Find crumbs that austin was vigi. If he was town, he surely would have shared them with us. (I tried finding some, but failed to do so, maybe more attentive players can try). Even if you find nothing, the fact that he lied about saying he "confirmed" it before N1, AND the fact that he didn't use this, the most strongest evidence in his stack, is compelling. Rephrasing to make it crystal clear, as I know some of you don't like to read: He didn't use the single most compelling evidence that he knew austin was blue. He then said it happened before N1. If he honestly thought it happened before N1, why didn't he use it? One more thing, he disappeared during the BKE lynch. Then, he claims it was a dumb lynch, etc. This is ridiculous, if he genuinely thought it ridiculous he would have appeared and tried to save him. If he was town, of course. Not to mention his disruptive play, how he never keeps his vote on someone, and his general uselessness in giving reads. Bill Murray is SCUM and needs to die! ##Vote Bill Murray | ||
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Maverick32x
United States311 Posts
shit. You just totally exploded. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On September 11 2012 11:26 Maverick32x wrote: holy. shit. You just totally exploded. What's the matter, didn't expect I'd find your scum buddy? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On September 11 2012 08:44 Maverick32x wrote: Ok, I just want to start off by saying I suspect Forumite is mafia and I will be voting for him. That being said- the amount of bandwagoning that just occurred for him to be our prime suspect is disturbing. If Forumite is NOT mafia, we NEED to focus on the people who are not contributing to a case- and start putting some pressure on them because they are just allowing us to kill each other and are just going to sit back the entire time. Sl00sh's weak "that doesn't show he cares" case is such a knee-jerk reaction to a single post. Hopeless1der: Bandwagons- despite forumite asserting that he suppported someone that hopeless was suspecting (Z-boson). Rewok- gimme a break. Imallinson- your weak vote is pretty damning. etc. etc.. Not sure if lazy town or scum. Refer to my post for Forumite reasoning. Guys I want to lynch Maverick. 1) He wants to wait for a Forumite flip before he starts focusing on the people "causing" the lynches. 2) He hasn't contributed anything to the Forumite case, nor the Z-boson case himself. 3) He spends the last cycle talking about lynching lurkers and totally dropped it this cycle. I'm wondering if a voteswitch will rustle up enough friction to catch some scum. What do you think Toad? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [case] + Well, I already had my initial case on him: On September 06 2012 08:18 Z-BosoN wrote: Let me! let me! First of all, you post this: These seem like soft-defending attempts on your scum buddy. You are on the same train as Graven, you figured out it wasn't a good idea to defend him and backed off. But these arguments are weak, if I want to judge someone strictly on defending a now-confirmed scum, then I wouldn't bother with anyone else other than Ox. However: You DON'T SCUMHUNT! So now you say that you have a huge red flag and it really makes you suspicious. Yet, you don't make a single post later on, to anyone else. You just seemingly forget all about s&b and the huge red flag you have on him. If you were townie I'm sure you would be more focused into attacking someone you have a huge red flag on than on defending yourself. You show more interest in defending yourself than in making cases and scumhunting. And thus, your first non-casual FOS: ##FOS Maverick And now we have this: On September 08 2012 06:55 Maverick32x wrote: Ok, this probably will be my last post of the day, but I'm finally home and could read through BKE's filter properly. To be honest, I went into looking at BKE from a "Everyone is ganging up on him, and I don't think its deserved" perspective. I don't think anyone said this, but this is the evidence that I'm considering as the most damning... Well okay, I know THIS has been brought up... but I just want to reiterate that this 'soft defending' makes me suspicious... not 100% scum.. just suspicious. This is just the last post on his slight attack on Toad. Which is significant to me beecaaauusse: I really see this as putting the responsibility on someone else to make claims and to avoid doing it himself.... He just lights touched on a couple people, but clearly expected town to start lynching themselves. So yea, I'm good with this lynch....AND the one thing I'm concerned about is that we are tunneling. And that concerns me.... still worried about the lurkers!! This ending right there is ridiculous. He's a lurker, a bad one, and his confirmation on BKE is quite weak. I can see him being just a very bad town, but I still think he's scum. He simply doesn't scumhunt, criticizes people for not scumhunting while him himself makes shit for cases. Says he worries about lurkers and goes ahead to target me, the opposite of lurker, without making a case. He is screaming scum to me right now, I don't know how the fuck he's not getting lynched... With what I found on BM, plus Mav's "soft defense" on him early in the game, which is the ONLY time he has ever bothered defending someone, but still keeping a distance with a "looks suspicious". Note that the "looks suspicious" is also the reason he is voting for me... check it out: On September 07 2012 10:11 Maverick32x wrote: Okay, got through everyone's filters, so lets label some of the lurkers just to make sure we're aware: Hopeless1der, Shady Sands, ShiaoPi, and honestly I'd like to put Austinmcc in there too just cause his posts are useless.. but meh Okay, Obviously my read above on Forumite still stands- but I'm going to focus on DoYouHas for this next post. He randomly decides that Bill Murray must die right away. No idea why this was important for him to post- and to be honest Bill Murray is suspicious in his own ways (not to de-rail, but a lot of one sentence responses, fluctuating 'lists' of scum etc) So my sense is that this is a way to just accuse a peer early on, knowing that it won't stick. And of course it doesn't, because he quickly /unvotes that so quickly that it doesn't even make sense why he would do it in the first place. The majority of DoYouHas's posts involve meta game. Starting right at the start its his 'friend' who wanted him to vote, and people are playing as their 'meta' which he frequently refers to. We're looking at a definite Matt lynch, and he knows it, and even states it... why wouldn't he get behind that vote? He then jumps to Hopeless1der as his next target. He just appears far too sure of himself that Hopeless is voting scum for a townie- considering his entire case is built around it. His defense involves his own meta!! This leads me to believe that he is very aware of the 'meta' in the game, and is actively trying to fit whatever he views as 'usual' for him when he is town. So there you have it!! My top 2 reads currently. Has me convinced they are a scum team. Not to mention DoYouHas was a very easy case to make. Granted how they are both useless on making real actual scumreads and they flip-flop around targets, I'd happily go for any of them. I also still have my gaze fixed at forumite and Shady Sands, but I'd rather leave them for later. S&B I can't quite get a fix on him, the main reason I thought he was scummy was because I thought I found a contradiction. Now that that's gone, the only argument that stands is that he's done a shit job at making cases, and this is something both Mav and BM have in common. So yea, definitely, right now I'm pretty set that one of them should BURN!!!! | ||
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Maverick32x
United States311 Posts
2)- I made a whole post on forumite.... 3)- Yup. I think my post did rustle up some friction.... | ||
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Maverick32x
United States311 Posts
How is it possible that someone could have SIX pages of posts and for me not to remember a single one of them I thought? So I decided to flip through them. I just find a trend of you just flailing around wildly at anything and it just appears to me as if you're just trying to throw a vote on ANYONE. Sure you've tunneled me a lot through out the game, and that's cool- but why is it that none of those seem to stick? Why is it that no one seems to back you up? You even had to refresh your old 'case' on me, because as you mentioned, no one seemed to respond to it when you posted it. Why would that be? Scum buddies afraid to back you up? Weak case? You tell me. | ||
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Maverick32x
United States311 Posts
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Maverick32x
United States311 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On September 11 2012 13:19 Maverick32x wrote: 1) I'm voting Z-Boson... 2)- I made a whole post on forumite.... 3)- Yup. I think my post did rustle up some friction.... Oh ok. Could you post the part where you present evidence that suggests Forumite is scum? | ||
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Maverick32x
United States311 Posts
On September 07 2012 09:40 Maverick32x wrote: Dang, you guys know my play style better than I do!! Okay, I'm flipping through filters and I don't want to OMGUS , but come on Forumite..... your scumminess is showing... ^ Circumstantial connections. And a lot of hypothetical connections in this defense. Not to mention he kind of alludes to the fact that by now the scum have jumped on the band wagon. Also he is REALLY trying to distance himself from Matt.. excessively so... I'll be posting more shortly- but this one just made me /facepalm and I wanted to post while still fresh in my mind. Another thing that I was thinking- Forumite accuses me and Hapahauli as his number 1 and 2 scum reads. I have 2 problems with this- 1) I'm not scum. 2) Hapahauli was one of the people who seemed adamant about asking if NN is self-aware.... that seems awfully townie to me. And I was correct in Hapha being town. Its the bandwagoning from randoms and lurkers that makes me NOT want to vote for Forumite- it has very little to do with how Forumite is playing. I don't like the way these cases are being played out. By there being more than just a dominant voice of "Everyone pile on this person"- having another option forces people to choose. If everyone just says "vote for this person" and no one is offering an alternative- scum is safe to just follow along since there wasn't a realistic option. UNLESS- that person is scum... then they could conceivably try to bus their team mate..... So, if Forumite were to be scum, I feel like there wouldn't be such quick votes on him, and rather a scum or two would try to protect their team mate... that isn't happening though. Honestly- make me the second person. I'm town, so if you guys do end up lynching me PLEASE look at the deciding voters and people who don't offer cases against me because that is where you will find your scum... oh yea- and maybe check in on the people who are leading the charge ;o I kind of laughed when I was done writing this- because its pretty obvious that I'm potentially describing myself as the person trying to protect his scum-buddy... I guess that's up for you guys to decide. (I'm not) | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
And Maverick, I understand your frustration that the lynches are basically one person going "I choose X" and then 10 lurkers popping out of nowhere saying "yea X is good choice" and going back to lurking. But that's what we have to deal with because our blues are stupidly lurking giving scum places to hide. Really, right now scum gameplan is probably lay low but not too much as to get caught until they can snipe off all the big town voices / blues protecting them. Otherwise they can't really come out since their history looks like utter crap. I mean same thing with Mattchew, only a handful of people decided to act before the announcement. Post announcement everyone followed suit and you can't distinguish scum easily. And scum will continue to do it because a stupid / lazy town is letting them do it. You will probably get the same exact feeling no matter who is getting lynched. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
My vote will be on BillMurray for now. Few reasons: - This post made by Hapa before he died. It did kinda get left alone given that Toads case on Forumite was posted later same page (page 77). + Show Spoiler + On September 10 2012 01:26 Hapahauli wrote: First off, I don't buy ShiaoPi's excuse. If Shiao is moving into university as he is suggesting, I find it hard to believe he'd sign up for a Mafia game if he knew his schedule. He was also plenty active to respond to Maverick's suspicion against him - and much more frequently than the "10 minute loading time" per page he was suggesting about his internet earlier. Finally, Shiao's only standing read is an OMGUS against Maverick. Strongly suggest shooting him tonight. Also, I won't be as active for the next few hours, so I wanted to comment on... Bill Murray This is mostly based on his actions (inactions?) during the BKE lynch. Right around when I dropped the case on BKE, Bill Murray had a burst of 6 short posts, all compiled into one larger one for your convenience: I summarized the case for him and never heard back from him. The only post he made between there and after the lynch is this weak-sauce soft-push of BKE: This is the only post he makes during the BKE push. Note that he doesn’t take a stance and simply disagrees with BKE’s defense. Then, after the BKE lynch... All of a sudden, he acts as if he was against BKE the whole time. Now I’m not sure if BillMurray is capable of doing stuff like this as town (his normal posting is scummy after all), but this specific thing seems scummy as hell to me. - His unwillingness to reply to this post, to Bosons post questions or to my question. There might be more occasions but probably not needed. - Me generally disliking that way of posting. If you purposedly post scummy (which people have claimed he always does) you just make it way too easy for yourself to hide. - Him not really committing to anything and switching opinions about people all the time. He said he'd back off Forumite, voted on him anyway. He had also gone back and forth about Maverick in his filter (without explaining the reasoning of course). - Toad seemingly agreeing BM needs to die. Toad is the one one who seem to have the meta knowledge about the others, and even though he's preferring Boson/Forumite, at least it doesnt mean the meta-argumentation clears Murray of anything. - Me having a bad feeling about the Forumite case and how its unfolding. Maverick explained it well + Show Spoiler + I don't like the way these cases are being played out. By there being more than just a dominant voice of "Everyone pile on this person"- having another option forces people to choose. If everyone just says "vote for this person" and no one is offering an alternative- scum is safe to just follow along since there wasn't a realistic option. That would be about it. Im very open to change my vote should he make an effort to defend himself though, but I've got a feeling that wont happen. Short opinions about Maverick and Boson and why I dont want to vote on them for now. Maverick: With the 10 or more people I have no feeling for at all, Maverick at least made two recent posts I very much agree with as town. Not enough to put him as a clear town, but enough to not make me wanna vote on him now. Boson: I think the best explanation of his play so far was him being 3rd party. So I'll stick to that opinion about him for now. ##Vote Bill Murray | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I mentioned S&B as well but as I said, he's probably Assassin so noone should care about him right now unless we see another 3rd party flip and he's still kicking. It's really as I said, we're bound to find "not-town" in there no matter what and I'm really leaning 3rd party on Foru atm while Boson and BM are more likely to be mafia. The thing about BM is that he's like a Kenpachi junior. You lynch him with knowledge you gain from other lynches or bye process of elimination and not because of what he said because he's always weird. | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote: You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote: You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote: I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? | ||
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