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I am at work and don't have much time. Catching up is hard, from my reading so far I think Maverick is scum and will vote him I read the most recent case on forumite but I just don't see it. Hopefully I can finish filling in the gaps of reading tonight and actually post a worthy post of why maverick is scum. I'm hoping I can make deadline today busy day.
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On September 11 2012 22:12 Mementoss wrote:
I am at work and don't have much time. Catching up is hard, from my reading so far I think Maverick is scum and will vote him I read the most recent case on forumite but I just don't see it. Hopefully I can finish filling in the gaps of reading tonight and actually post a worthy post of why maverick is scum. I'm hoping I can make deadline today busy day. Okay, your top read is Mav, but there´s no way he´s getting lynched today, so you throwing away your vote on Mav is indirectly a vote to lynch me.
Why do you want me lynched?
You say you don´t see the case on me but you sit on the sideline. Instead, check Z-Boson and Bill Murray, and decide if I´m less scummy than either of those two. If I am, then vote that player. I support you making a case on Maverick, but that can wait until the night.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 11 2012 19:32 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me.
What would be really helpful is if you actually made a case now. You said before that you thought day three was going to be a waste now. Surely you actually contributing something, besides saying a few people are scummy, would help to alleviate that. You posting vague reads on people doesn't help town lynch scum which is the reason everyone is voting for your lynch in the first place.
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Hey all been busy and absent from the thread. Just caught up now.
As to the 3 leading candidates, based on my gut and what I have picked up from reading the thread, I would 100% go for a BM lynch.
Regardless of alignment I think we would be better off without his presence especially around endgame where, you know, you actually want an idea wtf someone's alignment is.
In addition to that I have a Town Read on Z-boson. This is made up of a couple of things.
- Hapa had a town read on Z- Boson. Even though I thought he was scummy he flipped town and our discussions on Z- Boson
caused me to re think my earlier suspicion on him and re-read his filter.
- Z - Boson is playing very differently from his scum meta which I experienced last game. He is being a lot more proactive in scum hunting and making cases.
- His case on BM was excellent.
Forumite - No fucking Idea as I do not know his meta. Which seems to be what the case is largely based upon. I am going to reread his filter to get a firmer grasp on where he stands with me.
I am hesitant to rely too much on the meta analysis of others for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, I have not experienced the games being quoted and I can't be fucked reading them so I am relying entirely on the opinions of others which are of course circumspect and potentially misleading.
Secondly I feel that blindly sheeping the meta analysis of others does not allow me to improve my own play and I would rather come to my own conclusions.
A good example of this is Bill Murray. DYH wanted to policy lynch him day one. I was of course aware of his reputation but did not agree with this. After experiencing his play for several days I have come to my own conclusion on BM: Bill Murray is a Liability regardless of alignment.
Anyway. I am far less caught up in this game than I would like to be so I am going to dive into some filters and dig around.
I encourage everyone to take a good look at Z- Bosons case on BM as I think it deserves some discussion and analysis.
I will be checking the thread continuously for the next few hours ( I had to set aside some time for this or I would keep finding myself distracted by other things) So if anyone wants to bounce ideas off me. Ask me for reads. anything let me know. I am at your service.
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On September 11 2012 19:32 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me.
If Z - Boson and BM are both your strongest scum reads, How do you resolve the issue that they are making cases on one another?
Are they both scum? or are they mutually exclusive? i.e. If BM is scum Z -Boson is town Vice Versa.
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On September 11 2012 22:25 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 19:32 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me. What would be really helpful is if you actually made a case now. You said before that you thought day three was going to be a waste now. Surely you actually contributing something, besides saying a few people are scummy, would help to alleviate that. You posting vague reads on people doesn't help town lynch scum which is the reason everyone is voting for your lynch in the first place. I could say the same about you. You gave your reasons to vote me, but it was basically agreeing with everyone else. Why don´t you make a case on me? What in this game have I done that´s been actively anti-Town? We know Z-Boson tried to divert the case on Matt and happily chatted away with GK, him and GK having a little dance of friendly FoS back and forth. Don´t you think that´s suspicious?
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On September 11 2012 22:25 imallinson wrote:
You posting vague reads on people doesn't help town lynch scum which is the reason everyone is voting for your lynch in the first place.
Is that the entirety of the case on Forumite? Lots of people are guilty of that. What makes Him stick out in particular?
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You need to vote, DP.
On September 11 2012 22:40 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 19:32 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me. If Z - Boson and BM are both your strongest scum reads, How do you resolve the issue that they are making cases on one another? Are they both scum? or are they mutually exclusive? i.e. If BM is scum Z -Boson is town Vice Versa. I don´t think anything about their relationship, I think they are both scummy on their own merits and focus on that. They could be both scum and distancing themselves from eachother, or one is scum and the other a scummy townie. Or the top three candidates today are all townies and will occupy discussion all the way to a scum victory, who knows? I just think Bill Murray and Z-Boson are the most scummy of all players, I don´t need any other reason to want to lynch them.
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On September 11 2012 22:25 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 19:32 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me. What would be really helpful is if you actually made a case now. You said before that you thought day three was going to be a waste now. Surely you actually contributing something, besides saying a few people are scummy, would help to alleviate that. You posting vague reads on people doesn't help town lynch scum which is the reason everyone is voting for your lynch in the first place.
If you're looking for something alternative to Forumite, theres been cases last 2 or 3 pages on both him, Z-Boson and Bill Murray. You should really try and read some of those rather than just leaning back and demanding him to do the work. If he had anything to say in addition to whats been said Im sure he'd mention it. If he doesnt have anything else to add, you should read through them and make your own opinion.
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On September 11 2012 22:50 Forumite wrote:You need to vote, DP. Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 22:40 DarthPunk wrote:On September 11 2012 19:32 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me. If Z - Boson and BM are both your strongest scum reads, How do you resolve the issue that they are making cases on one another? Are they both scum? or are they mutually exclusive? i.e. If BM is scum Z -Boson is town Vice Versa. I don´t think anything about their relationship, I think they are both scummy on their own merits and focus on that. They could be both scum and distancing themselves from eachother, or one is scum and the other a scummy townie. Or the top three candidates today are all townies and will occupy discussion all the way to a scum victory, who knows? I just think Bill Murray and Z-Boson are the most scummy of all players, I don´t need any other reason to want to lynch them.
Fair enough. Yeah I know I need to vote but I am sort of out of the loop so i want some info before I make a decision. At this point though I am leaning towards BM. What did you think of Z -Bosons case on BM?
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On September 11 2012 22:40 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 22:25 imallinson wrote:On September 11 2012 19:32 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me. What would be really helpful is if you actually made a case now. You said before that you thought day three was going to be a waste now. Surely you actually contributing something, besides saying a few people are scummy, would help to alleviate that. You posting vague reads on people doesn't help town lynch scum which is the reason everyone is voting for your lynch in the first place. I could say the same about you. You gave your reasons to vote me, but it was basically agreeing with everyone else. Why don´t you make a case on me? What in this game have I done that´s been actively anti-Town? We know Z-Boson tried to divert the case on Matt and happily chatted away with GK, him and GK having a little dance of friendly FoS back and forth. Don´t you think that´s suspicious?
I'll admit that most of my reason for voting for you was sheeping toad's argument. I'll give your filter another read and see what pops out. As for ZB being chummy with GK I don't read that as being scummy. Scum would be the ones who knew GK was going to flip scum soon so would want to put as much distance between them as possible. The diversion on the Matt case is more scummy.
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On September 11 2012 23:00 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 22:50 Forumite wrote:You need to vote, DP. On September 11 2012 22:40 DarthPunk wrote:On September 11 2012 19:32 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me. If Z - Boson and BM are both your strongest scum reads, How do you resolve the issue that they are making cases on one another? Are they both scum? or are they mutually exclusive? i.e. If BM is scum Z -Boson is town Vice Versa. I don´t think anything about their relationship, I think they are both scummy on their own merits and focus on that. They could be both scum and distancing themselves from eachother, or one is scum and the other a scummy townie. Or the top three candidates today are all townies and will occupy discussion all the way to a scum victory, who knows? I just think Bill Murray and Z-Boson are the most scummy of all players, I don´t need any other reason to want to lynch them. Fair enough. Yeah I know I need to vote but I am sort of out of the loop so i want some info before I make a decision. At this point though I am leaning towards BM. What did you think of Z -Bosons case on BM? I dislike most of the case, especially him calling BM out for lying, often a "lie" is the player simply forgetting something instead of scum-motivated. What I do agree with is that it´s very bad of BM to have been gone during the BKE lynch. My opinion of BM is that he doesn´t try to help. We want him to be a town leader and all he does is short posts, cryptic or irrelevant passages, FoS on me, taking back FoS on me, saying he actually always suspected me, back and forth.
The old cases on me during N1 were weak, and both BM and Toades said so, so I didn´t do much about them except resolving to get more active, and yet it´s those same reasons that are used to get me lynched today. =/
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OK I just read through Forumites filter a couple of times and I tried really hard but failed to find anything particularly scummy about him. I even began some cases on him but they sort of fell apart as soon as they began. I am not saying that Forumite is town. What I am saying is that the case on him could be a case on several people in this game and the one thing that differentiates Forumite from these others is the meta claims. He lead a case against Mav day 2. But he then drops it to sheep his scum read Hapa's case on BKE. I found it weird that he dropped scum reads on hapa and Mav and then failed to pursue them any further after day 2 but I don't view this as damning evidence. The accusations that BM have been throwing at Forumite since day one and the defense of them which take up a large part of his filter are also hardly damning.
Forumite has not been a particularly active scum hunter. Sheeped the Matt and BKE lynches defended himself when questioned. This could describe many of the players currently in the game.
The weirdest thing is how he dropped his reads on hapa and mav, never to return and sheeped his scum reads case so easily.
All in all I find Forumite mildly scummy but not any more so than the multitude of scummy players in this game.
I do not see anything particularly damning and I find it odd that so many people are voting for him over almost identical candidates.
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Looking back at who voted who and why so far, I couldnt help but noticing this one:
On September 11 2012 04:07 Rewok wrote:
I've been wrong every time I voted on my own instinct and right the time I followed Toade so my vote is for Forumite.
##vote: Forumite
Do you really not have any opinion on this yourself? If you dont have an opinion on the voting candidates, at least elaborate a bit on why you chose to follow Toad blindly and not any other random player.
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As it stands ##Vote: Bill Murray
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On September 11 2012 23:16 Forumite wrote:
I dislike most of the case (Z-boson's case on BM), especially him calling BM out for lying, often a "lie" is the player simply forgetting something instead of scum-motivated. What I do agree with is that it´s very bad of BM to have been gone during the BKE lynch. My opinion of BM is that he doesn´t try to help. We want him to be a town leader and all he does is short posts, cryptic or irrelevant passages, FoS on me, taking back FoS on me, saying he actually always suspected me, back and forth.
The old cases on me during N1 were weak, and both BM and Toades said so, so I didn´t do much about them except resolving to get more active, and yet it´s those same reasons that are used to get me lynched today. =/
- You want BILL MURRAY to be the leader? The voice of reason, a beacon for us to rally around? Are you kidding me?
- Where is this so called activity? Why is it that my posts are never responded to? Am I lurking to hard? For the last time:
On September 11 2012 07:24 Forumite wrote:
And there goes D3.
Come on guys, ignore the wagon for a while, where are the other scum? When I flip town, who is your next target? I´ve been away a few hours and the only thing that´s happened is that everyone´s said they want to lynch me. Doesn´t anyone have something else to add?
On September 11 2012 01:09 Hopeless1der wrote:
Forumite, could you perhaps flesh things out a bit more on Z-Boson, besides his interactions regarding Mattchew? Why is he a better lynch than you right now?
Forumite, Why should we lynch Z-Boson?
Why do you want me to die?
Make an effort to explain yourself.
For reference, a case on Forumite that is not based on Meta:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 07 2012 02:43 Hopeless1der wrote:First, my original case on Forumite: + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. "We're lynching you anyway" Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:46 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:42 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 09:27 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:07 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I mean that blues should do what they feel is best with their own judgment and ignore any direction from the "town" Sorry, I should have been more specific. I wondered about this phrase: On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc. What is there to explain? There's a difference between lynching someone for not backing themselves up after they're caught lying or whatever and lynching someone because they don't trust the town circle. It sounded weird. It´s common for the voteleader to be lynched unless he claims (convincingly). As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:55 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues. Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement. Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. Dat Over-reaction: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:42 slOosh wrote:
Cool ... you wanna talk about something else? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? And then of course slo0sh himself points out: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:17 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. I reacted strongly because there was no grounds for the vote / read. I still have a problem with the fact that he keeps emphasizing the uselessness of the post (it isn't, because as clearly seen that people can miss setup information), which I take as soft discrediting of my posts in general. I'm not claiming my opening post is super useful, but to call it useless is unwarranted. That said I can see this coming from a town perspective, so my problem with his play thus far is a matter of taste rather than alignment. On September 04 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Um... this: " My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not" You are saying that he tries to discredit you ---> you think he tried to discredit you ---> if he tried to discredit you, you are saying he wanted to do this and is being deliberately disruptive. Why not just straight answer the question without adding another one? There is a difference in someone discrediting me and someone being deliberately disruptive. Forumite phrased the question in a way that seemingly put words in my mouth as I said the former but not the latter (or never intended to so I checked with my question). Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted. Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hello folks ^^
I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone.
A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker.
Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum. ##Vote: Forumite+ Show Spoiler +Pregame answer for Rewok, I got curious when going through Forumite's filter: On September 03 2012 01:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 00:51 Rewok wrote:
There's a word for arguing for arguments sake but I can't remember it. Anybody want to help me out? No there isn't! + Show Spoiler + Eristic My followup, continuing my journey through his filter: His entire reasoning for voting matt is to sheep BC: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 21:11 Forumite wrote:
Still catching up with the posts made while I was asleep.
For now:
##Vote: Mattchew
He´s a scummy liar and I´m 100% behind BC for calling him out. He didn't even read the entire thread through...He initially just tossed his vote in there because BC was so sure of himself, but that wasn't really the case. How do I know this? Because in his next post, he's defending his 'out of place' vote in the spoilered post below: + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote:Reading through the thread, my vote on Matt looks kind of odd. I made it after I got a PM-confirmation from Palmar but before I saw Palmars post in the thread. Why do people fakevote, then say "lol, I never really voted!" It´s irritating. Making a vote in this thread might not count but I think it´s bad form. Similarly it´s bad to stealthvote in the other thread without confirming it here. If you want to pressurevote, do it for real. @BMShow nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite I don´t get it. Matt was looking very strange for claiming when there was no benefit in claiming. I was talking to him to try and get a better read. Yes, if Matt was blue then I might have exposed him, but I wasn´t worried about that, I was thinking Matt was either NN or scum. With Matt looking more and more scummy, do you still accuse me of fishing for his role? Your FoS seem to rely on Matt being a townie, which he´s probably not. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:48 Rewok wrote:
Been keeping up my reading. Here's how the situation seems to me:
We're voting Mattchew today. Pretty much no getting out of that. If he turns up scum, Ottox and a few others could be on the chopping block. If he's town, we've got a whole new set of reads.
But it seems to me that our whole strategy hinges on how Mattchew turns up after he's killed. Is there any way we can get another read / another kill set up for D1? One which doesn't hinge on Mattchew's alignment?
I'm asking because you guys are way more familiar with the way TL mafia runs. One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. More specifically, pulling from the spoilered post above: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote:
Reading through the thread, my vote on Matt looks kind of odd. I made it after I got a PM-confirmation from Palmar but before I saw Palmars post in the thread. It didn't look strange. Feel free the check the timestamps, his vote came after Palmar confirmed the lie. Forumite says he got mod confirmation anyways, but to what avail? This is a defensive statement when there is nothing to defend against. This is scummy behavior. Why did he have to sheep BC if he had mod confirmation? More scummy behavior. Next, he's reading things between lines that I have a hard time seeing. Read BM's post and show me how you came out of that thinking "Well BM is accusing me of bluefishing": Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite Forumite's response to BM: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote:
I don´t get it. Matt was looking very strange for claiming when there was no benefit in claiming. I was talking to him to try and get a better read. Yes, if Matt was blue then I might have exposed him, but I wasn´t worried about that, I was thinking Matt was either NN or scum. Next is him stifling active discussion and being wishy-washy: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote:
One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. He's kind of hedging his bets on what Matt's flip is going to be. This is a step back from when Matt was a scummy liar in his previous post. So what if we can't lynch more than one target at a time? I disagree with the concept of shutting up at night, but I don't necessarily see that as scum motivated. What is scummy is that we can "worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later." This isn't shutting up at night, this is shutting up in general. Rewok phrased his question poorly as an "alternative D1 target", but the basic concept of CONTINUE TO SCUMHUNT is completely valid to me.
In the next post: + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 21:19 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote:
Allright, Mattchew is set to be lynched.
What can we conclude if he flips scum or town?
In the unlikely event that he will flip town, will we have enough evidence to go for a BC lynch?
My take is, if he flips town, BC's suspicions will go way up, but I don't agree with insta-lynch. We all agreed that fakeclaiming is not something a blue role would do, and is most likely coming from scum.
If he flips scum, then we will take a long hard look at the people who insist that he shouldn't be lynched.
Ox, as of now, is my top candidate for a lynch. He's been so obnoxious and so annoying regarding the whole Mattchew business that he looks the most suspicious up to now. He also has been of zero usefulness this entire game.
@Shiaopi
Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? Basically that, if Matt flips town, then BC could be anything, but if Matt flips scum then BC is most likely town, and everyone who defended Matt until Palmars confirmation looks kind of bad. People who defend Matt after Palmars confirmation look bad for creating a disruption over something that is allready decided, that Matt lied and needs to die, but I think most scum jumped on the bandwagon long ago. If Matt is an Assassin then we get rid of both the 3rd Party in return for 2 townies dead. Not a good trade, but I think it´s unlikely that Matt is an assassin. There´s no point in not defending yourself to the end as a 3rd Party, while scum often shut up to avoid giving away any of their buddies. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 14:38 Bill Murray wrote:
No, Forumite. I don't see how you get that whatsoever. I see you as being scum with Mattchew for not jumping on voting him there. Isn´t that a different accusation? Before you accuse me of trying to get Matt to claim (meaning that you thought I was scum and Matt town), and now you say I´m scum together with Matt. To answer why I didn´t vote Matt early, at the time I was weighing on what Matt was and engaged him in conversation to get a better read, but until Palmar confirmed how Nosy Neighbors works, there wasn´t enough on Matt for me to throw down a vote. Matt was suspicious for claiming NN, but there were no proof that he was really lying at the time. Why should I vote someone who claims a town role unless I have a good reason to think he´s lying? , He basically says that if Matt flips red (which he has) then everyone looks kind of bad sometimes because of disruption and bussing something something waffle. Don't count on finding scum using Matt's flip is the message I got from that. This, in addition to his "find scum later" response to rewok reads very scummy to me. He also pushes his luck with BM regarding the bluefishing, which I don't think actually happened and Forumite is twisting the situation to make BM look bad. For the most part, he's shut up other than to call Mav scum and neglect to address the ottoxlol issue. This is null since he said he'd wanted to shut up at night, but with everything else, I'm reading heavily into Forumite being scum.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
Forumite:
First thing I noticed looking through your filter is this:
One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. I don't like the fact you are trying to kill all discussion the rest of day one and night one. Just because we found scum day one doesn't mean we should sit around for 48 hours.
You do try and make cases against Mav and Hapa but all they are based on is a touch of buddying on Matt. You recently said the same about ZB but given that Hapa and Ottox defended Matt and are town its not a great reason to go on. It worries me that you are still trying to pull reads from the Matt situation when there is a lot more posts to go on now.
There are like 8 players that look weird during that crucial period in the game, and that´s without counting the lurkers. This is kind of why trying to get reads from that situation isn't that productive. I said something similar to Shady a while ago when he was trying to figure out where scum were bussing Matt. To me it seems off that all your reads are based on that one situation.
Z-Boson
The main thing that seems really off is this:
Can we, with bloodyc0bbler's 100% certainty, assume that there necessarily is one, and just one watcher?? If not 100%, how likely is it? I, along with everyone else it seems, don't see why this is relevant. He is trying to say lynching a blue is ok if we have another spare. I read that as him knowing BKE was blue and trying to justify lynching him. That screams scum to me.
Then we get onto this:
Basically he's screaming out loud he knows austin is blue. Given how he was addressing austin, and the crumbs, it sounds reasonable, and is confirmed with this quote: Show nested quote +Seems really inactive, however, so I'm not calling off a potential vig shot there... *looks at austin* Which is made AFTER night 1. However, his "crumbs", were made BEFORE night one, as were his other posts. If he actually suspected austin being blue, as mafia, it would be extremely advantageous to outright kill austin. He would be catching a blue in day one. I don't believe mafia would have the balls to note this and still not kill austin. My only concern is the possibility of him just leaving crumbs everywhere with his random comments. If you note, there's a lot of stuff you basically can't understand. I'm inclined to believe BM, however, because from his filter he clearly treated austin differently, something in which he did not do with anybody else. My questions are only to avoid this "random crumbing" theory I have, because otherwise that should be like a 95% clear.
First of all, BM didn't answer my questions, because since you guys are so blind, he threw suspicion towards austin AFTER he "blue claimed him"!! This is surely not the attitude of someone who was "absolutely sure he saw a blue". Observe, this post came after his so called "crumbs"
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Bill Murray is SCUM and needs to die! This sudden flip from thinking BM is confirmed town to scum in the space of an hour makes no sense to me. In fact thinking BM was confirmed town in the first place makes no sense in itself.
Forumite still seems off to me but ZB's posting screams scum, much more so than Forumite's. How he handled the BKE thing was just plain weird and anti-town and the flip on BM makes no sense from a town perspective either.
##Unvote
##Vote: Z-Boson
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On September 11 2012 23:31 DarthPunk wrote:
OK I just read through Forumites filter a couple of times and I tried really hard but failed to find anything particularly scummy about him. I even began some cases on him but they sort of fell apart as soon as they began. I am not saying that Forumite is town. What I am saying is that the case on him could be a case on several people in this game and the one thing that differentiates Forumite from these others is the meta claims. He lead a case against Mav day 2. But he then drops it to sheep his scum read Hapa's case on BKE. I found it weird that he dropped scum reads on hapa and Mav and then failed to pursue them any further after day 2 but I don't view this as damning evidence. The accusations that BM have been throwing at Forumite since day one and the defense of them which take up a large part of his filter are also hardly damning.
Forumite has not been a particularly active scum hunter. Sheeped the Matt and BKE lynches defended himself when questioned. This could describe many of the players currently in the game.
The weirdest thing is how he dropped his reads on hapa and mav, never to return and sheeped his scum reads case so easily.
All in all I find Forumite mildly scummy but not any more so than the multitude of scummy players in this game.
I do not see anything particularly damning and I find it odd that so many people are voting for him over almost identical candidates.
The thing about Forumite is that he is as scummy or as not-so-scummy as everyone else, as you just mentioned but unlike everyone else he's not just like everyone else, he's Forumite.
You usually don't find mafia-vets by scummyness or something they posted because they don't screw up that badly. Yeah sometimes something weird happens and this game & Matt are the perfect example that these kind of things happen every 10 games or so but in general nothing like that will happen. So what you want to look out for is stuff that is NOT happening. There is no other way to figure out vets.
That method isn't working with other people because for it to work you need to know that the guy in question knows what he's doing which is almost never the case unless you're a vet or have been around long enough to be considered decent.
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On September 12 2012 00:09 imallinson wrote:Forumite:First thing I noticed looking through your filter is this: Show nested quote +One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. I don't like the fact you are trying to kill all discussion the rest of day one and night one. Just because we found scum day one doesn't mean we should sit around for 48 hours. You do try and make cases against Mav and Hapa but all they are based on is a touch of buddying on Matt. You recently said the same about ZB but given that Hapa and Ottox defended Matt and are town its not a great reason to go on. It worries me that you are still trying to pull reads from the Matt situation when there is a lot more posts to go on now. Show nested quote +There are like 8 players that look weird during that crucial period in the game, and that´s without counting the lurkers. This is kind of why trying to get reads from that situation isn't that productive. I said something similar to Shady a while ago when he was trying to figure out where scum were bussing Matt. To me it seems off that all your reads are based on that one situation. Z-BosonThe main thing that seems really off is this: Show nested quote +Can we, with bloodyc0bbler's 100% certainty, assume that there necessarily is one, and just one watcher?? If not 100%, how likely is it? I, along with everyone else it seems, don't see why this is relevant. He is trying to say lynching a blue is ok if we have another spare. I read that as him knowing BKE was blue and trying to justify lynching him. That screams scum to me. Then we get onto this: Show nested quote +Basically he's screaming out loud he knows austin is blue. Given how he was addressing austin, and the crumbs, it sounds reasonable, and is confirmed with this quote: Seems really inactive, however, so I'm not calling off a potential vig shot there... *looks at austin* Which is made AFTER night 1. However, his "crumbs", were made BEFORE night one, as were his other posts. If he actually suspected austin being blue, as mafia, it would be extremely advantageous to outright kill austin. He would be catching a blue in day one. I don't believe mafia would have the balls to note this and still not kill austin. My only concern is the possibility of him just leaving crumbs everywhere with his random comments. If you note, there's a lot of stuff you basically can't understand. I'm inclined to believe BM, however, because from his filter he clearly treated austin differently, something in which he did not do with anybody else. My questions are only to avoid this "random crumbing" theory I have, because otherwise that should be like a 95% clear. followed an hour later by: Show nested quote +First of all, BM didn't answer my questions, because since you guys are so blind, he threw suspicion towards austin AFTER he "blue claimed him"!! This is surely not the attitude of someone who was "absolutely sure he saw a blue". Observe, this post came after his so called "crumbs"
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Bill Murray is SCUM and needs to die! This sudden flip from thinking BM is confirmed town to scum in the space of an hour makes no sense to me. In fact thinking BM was confirmed town in the first place makes no sense in itself. Forumite still seems off to me but ZB's posting screams scum, much more so than Forumite's. How he handled the BKE thing was just plain weird and anti-town and the flip on BM makes no sense from a town perspective either. ##Unvote
##Vote: Z-Boson
Finally a case to go along with the vote, omfg.
The watcher argument I've already explained and I'll explain once again. I've played once in a newbie game, and there, fakeclaiming cop is pretty stupid, because it's almost impossible for there to be two cops. I've never played in this setup so I made this assumption:
If it was a statistical likelihood that there is going to be only one watcher, then our best course of action would have been to not lynch BKE. Why? Because his claim would be short-sighted. The real watcher would pronounce himself later in the game and would give us a guaranteed scum.
Why did I consider this a very strong possibility? Because no vet answered my question about this, at all. I already had suspicions on vets, and the fact that this went silent made me assume that it had a degree of truth to it, which explains why I was insistent on it.
Also, I can see why this makes you confused. I can't see how this makes me scummy.
My switch on BM was planned. You can believe this or not, but listen to the arguments and see if it makes sense.
He claims to have known austin was blue. He takes a "I've known it all along" stance, and wants to use this to clear him. Why would this clear him? According to him, he would have shot austin, since he's known all along. When he posted this, I looked through his filter and realized two things:
1) He threw accusations at his "blue confirmation" after the "evidence" he had posted.
2) He had not given us the single best piece of evidence he had, when he actually said "looks at austin" when concerning a vigi kill.
So before I decided to make a case on him, I wanted some answers regarding these. I didn't want him to think that I was onto him, saying things like "finally you are useful, answer this and you are town!" to lure him into giving me more evidence so I could make a better case.
It worked to a certain extent.
The fact that he didn't answer 1), and the fact that he lied about 2). 2) is his BEST evidence, but he didn't use it! He later said that it came before night one, when it didn't. I'm sure you can agree that after n1, all his confirmations are useless, because austin died and most likely got roleblocked.
So my theory is that he suspected austin was blue, but preferred to target vets in n1. Then, he somehow confirmed that austin was actually vig and made a direct reference to this.
Now why did I choose to pretend to agree with him, etc.? Again, because I honestly thought it would fish better answers out of him, since this is a huge inconsistency, backed with lies. If you believe me, great.
If not, well, again, I can see why this would strike you as weird, but please explain to me how this makes me scum. The only thing I can possibly think of is that I, as scum, was actually defending BM, but then I realized it wasn't going to stick and decided go make a case on him to compensate. This seems rather stupid for me to do as scum if I didn't really think he came off as suspicious. It would also mean that I had to think up of a case on the fly, but one of the first things I did (and I was the only one to note this as well) was notice 1) and 2).
I don't see how this is "screaming scum" at all. Out of the whole case you have against me, the only thing that can possibly make me come out as scum is what's in the paragraph above. But I ask that you give me the benefit of the doubt, granted that BM has some actual tactile evidence that he is omitting and lying about convenient things to support his claim, and due to the fact that there are still players like ShiaoPi, grush and Shady Sands around who have next-to-nothing regarding posts and just throw their vote around without justifying and being completely anti-town.
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I don't know why Toad hasn't pointed this out before, but he actually responded to your (Z-BosoN's) question about the number of watchers in this post.
I feel as though Forumite has addressed my biggest concerns with him for now. He's clarified what he meant when it appeared that he told Rewok to stop scumhunting, and his response regarding Mav was good enough for me. Most of what's left on him is meta evidence, that he's being less active than in the past, and I don't have that experience with him. His recent posts have made me think of him as slightly townier than before. Especially his post regarding BM and ZB. I like that he's considering them individually, instead of trying to make associative cases between two unflipped players. I feel like scum tend to use associative arguments more. As long as he becomes more active and doesn't say anything overtly scummy, my vote will go towards people who appear scummier.
I've felt as though BM has been sketchy all game, though I do have some experience with trolly/unhelpful town players. That's made me reluctant to vote for him, since these players flip town just as often as scum (in my limited experience). Foru/Toad, I'm making an assumption here that you've both played with him before. Does this seem like typical BM play or is he being more... sketchy? I'd be willing to vote for him if he's not playing to his typical meta, simply because I don't think he's actually helping town, but I'd feel more comfortable with it if I had evidence of him playing scummier than usual.
I'm still going through Z-BosoN's filter. There's so much stuff to analyze, and I'm still having trouble deciding if I find him scummy or just bad/confusing/having different opinions than myself. At this exact moment, I would likely vote for BM just because I haven't had time to work through ZB's filter. ZB has been extremely active, and while I don't see that as necessarily a town trait, we will be able to catch him in the future if he's scum. Hopefully my next class won't be too hectic so I'll have time to finish looking through his filter and make a better decision.
Though I didn't actually vote for Forumite in the voting thread (oops), I'm going to ##Unvote here just to make it clear.
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