|
On September 07 2012 14:48 Bill Murray wrote:
id love to lynch maverick or hapahauli
why are people voting BKE?
can i get a summary of the case?
BKE "Fail-Bussed" Mattchew
Read the bolded segment below (occurs right before Palmar confirms the Mattchew fakeclaim).
On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About Mattchew (who I think is town):
Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.
BKE states that fake-claiming isn't enough to lynch Mattchew. Hell the entire post is wishy-washy for reasons I pointed out in the case earlier. It's a very scummy post overall, but the "fake-claiming" bit is the most important, because BKE turns around two pages later after the mod confirmation and does this:
On September 05 2012 00:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
Wow.
Mattchew hadn't posted anything in the interim to, as BKE put it, "sound scummy." BKE went from not wanting to lynch Mattchew for a fake-claim, and then when everyone jumped on Mattchew, treated the fake-claim like a huge scum-slip.
That's all you need to know really. It's indefensible.
|
|
|
On September 07 2012 21:59 imallinson wrote:
Wow that flip with regards to the Matt vote is pretty damning. I don't see why a town player would ignore what he had just said just because other people were voting against it. I'd be very curious to see what BKE had to say about it. ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
I'm still suspicious of Gravan (BKE trumps that at the moment). I'm not really buying the "he is newb town" argument, his filter still looks more scum than town to me.
If BKE flips red, Gravan is 100% town. GoodKarma and BKE talked about him too much (and BKE was highly suspicious of him) to be a scumbuddy.
|
On September 08 2012 00:30 Maverick32x wrote:
I have a list at home. Your label is 'Ultimate Lurker'. So.... That seemed reason enough.
Are you concerned about the bandwagoning that is occuring? What makes you trust that their reads are correct?
So are you voting ShiaoPi because he's the "Ultimate Lurker" or that he's scummy?
To be honest, it sounds like you're really reluctant to comment on BKE at all.
|
Might be a good vigi shot if BKE flips red.
He already soft-defended BKE earlier on this page, and has this fascination with lurkers when he himself is a hardcore lurker. Coincidentally, BKE and GoodKarma also have posts showing a tunnel-ish attitude toward lurking players.
|
@ Rewok - Kinda surprised you don't have any solid reads after your long post earlier in the game declaring everyone "null"
Any updates? Town/Mafia reads or otherwise?
|
On September 08 2012 03:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 11:37 Hapahauli wrote:Before I go to bed for the night: BroodKingEXEHe has two very suspicious posts regarding two confirmed players: Mattchew and Ottoxlol.
A bit before Mattchew is scum-confirmed (right around when a few players start voting for Mattchew), Broodking posts this unbelievably wishy-washy opinion on Mattchew. On September 04 2012 16:20 BroodKingEXE wrote:
About Mattchew (who I think is town):
Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy. Look at the logic - he first thinks its a great idea, then there are "too many holes." He doesn't want to lynch him because his "roleclaim isn't verifiable until he is lynched" - the hell? He said he's town originally, then says "its a coinflip" Then he says "Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch" and wants to wait until "mattchew sounds scummy". Again, the fakeclaim is the entire reason everyone voted for him. But wait! Two pages after the fakeclaim (and before Mattchew posted anything in the interim): On September 05 2012 00:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
Wow. After stating earlier that the fakeclaim wasn't enough to lynch Mattchew, he votes Mattchew for that very reasoning.
His viewpoints on Ottoxlol are the nail in the coffin: Goes from top scumread: No, his response was belivable based on posts he made after his sloosh interaction. Ottox has replaced him [ed note: Broodking's scumread on Toad due to the fact that he is pushing a "Matt is an assasin/townie scheme" instead of pushing his scum read toad. Then proceeds to push cases against Miltonkram, Shadysands, and Gravan while Ottox is his top scumread: Then says strange things about potentially townie Ottox while keeping a scumread on him. filter
My 2 cents about the Ottox thing. I played with him in Area 53 and he's as stubborn as a mule. I could see him trying to derail a lynch from a town perspective. I just don't get why as town he wont push a lynch canidate (in all seriousness his isn't doing much to push toad or hapa). That's why Im keeping a scum read on him. Then SOFT DEFENDS OTTOX when talking to DrHOn September 06 2012 16:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:It was later in the game from what I remember, just that he doesn't really listen (or ignores) others logic.
BroodKingEXE is scum!##Vote BroodKingEXE I've got a break to post. The reason I didn't like the idea of voting for a fake-claim is because short of Mod-confirmation, we wouldn't have any way to confirm BC's theory 1. I switched my vote because the fake-claim was confirmed and Mattchew had made no attempt to explain the fake-claim from a town perspective 2.
1: That's pretty clearly a misrepresentation of your post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=21#412
Firstly, you weren't even thinking about the mod confirmation. Your quote below proves this:
...Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched...
You explicitly state that his roleclaim isn't viable unless he dies. You very clearly weren't thinking of mod-confirmation.
2: Misrepresentation again. Palmar confirmed the lie 5.5 hours before your ##Vote post. You're telling me that you only gave Mattchew 5.5 hours to address his fakeclaim before you were convinced he was scum? You played off the entire thing as a mega-scumslip. Also, you explicitly mentioned that you weren't going to vote him based on the fakeclaim, and only if his posting was scummy.
Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.
In what way does 5.5 hours of Mattchew's silence describe this complete 180? It doesn't.
|
|
|
|
|
@ Mav
Read this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=54#1080
There's no rational reason why town BKE would make such a wild 180 in such a short time. When the bandwagon was starting on Mattchew, he expressed reservations and didn't vote him to protect his teammate. He explicitly stated that he didn't think a hypothetical fake-claim was a good enough reason to vote Mattchew.
THEN, he votes Mattchew 5.5 hours after the confirmation with only the word "wow." It's pretty clear that he's treating it as a mega-scumslip from Mattchew now. No rationale, no reasoning - all of a sudden when everyone votes Mattchew, he consents to it in a way completely inconsistent with his previous actions.
It's pretty clear that BKE forgot about his previous post and bussed Mattchew to blend in. Also, fun fact: he never voted Mattchew in the voting thread - he had his vote on Toadsstern officially the whole time.
|
On September 08 2012 04:46 Maverick32x wrote:
That's awesome news then.
I'm struggling because of the timing of his posts... And I'm not able to check them now... I'm concerned that people are using the "hindsight is 20/20" logic.
Such as- well now that we know Matt is scum... Anyone who associated with him scum. So I guess looking at the time will be important.... That being said- I want to see how much
Back to training ill clarify later.
This is not my argument at all. In fact, BKE doesn't interact with Mattchew much at all. It's his attitude towards Mattchew's lynch that's proof of his alignment.
And in mafia, "hindsight is 20/20" is actually a pretty good way to go about things. In mafia, you always make inferences from the past. Every time we get more information (alignments, flips, etc), we can infer more and more information from past posting.
|
|
|
@ BKE - Make a case against someone else - who should the town consider lynching instead of you?
|
On September 08 2012 06:23 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:18 grush57 wrote:
That post was before Palmar's post, lets see if he disappears after. What?
Does Grush hard defending BKE make him scum? I have no idea what hallucinogens he's on.
|
@ Z-Boson - it's funny you bring Toadsstern up, because if it wasn't for the BKE slip I found, I probably would have made a case on Toad instead.
That "goodbye" post looked so scummy to me, and I find things like this to be huge scumtells:
tl;dr / Summary so far:- I am town
- BC is pretty much town
- I highly lean on BM being town giving his style. He attacked me during this night for something he thought to be something. It obviously was nothing but his argument was not the typical "toad is unreadable, BE AFRAID GUYS" fear mongering I get all the time and I doubt a mafia would get in there attacking me the way he did.
That leaves us with Foru and DrH. DrH still feels odd although I can't put my finger on it. Foru feels way to cautios when he's posting.
1) Toad had been screaming that he's "town" throughout the day. This is pretty excessive considering there's very little reasoning why he should be considered town at all.
2) Toad says he's town, then gives a bunch of reads without any reasoning. Like read his goodbye post, then read the quoted selection. He never gives any reasoning for his reads.
3) If toad thinks he's going to get shot, why is he claiming town??? This is the most absurd thing ever.
Anywho, I have a scumread on toad, but I want BKE lynched first
Good stuff Z-Boson
|
For emphasis, the guy is practically on a megaphone saying he's town, and then whines about how he's going to get shot D1. Why is he so insistent on claiming "I am town" if he thinks he's going to get shot N1? I think it's because he's scum.
|
On September 08 2012 08:12 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 07:37 Hapahauli wrote:@ Z-Boson - it's funny you bring Toadsstern up, because if it wasn't for the BKE slip I found, I probably would have made a case on Toad instead. That "goodbye" post looked so scummy to me, and I find things like this to be huge scumtells: tl;dr / Summary so far:- I am town
- BC is pretty much town
- I highly lean on BM being town giving his style. He attacked me during this night for something he thought to be something. It obviously was nothing but his argument was not the typical "toad is unreadable, BE AFRAID GUYS" fear mongering I get all the time and I doubt a mafia would get in there attacking me the way he did.
That leaves us with Foru and DrH. DrH still feels odd although I can't put my finger on it. Foru feels way to cautios when he's posting. 1) Toad had been screaming that he's "town" throughout the day. This is pretty excessive considering there's very little reasoning why he should be considered town at all. 2) Toad says he's town, then gives a bunch of reads without any reasoning. Like read his goodbye post, then read the quoted selection. He never gives any reasoning for his reads. 3) If toad thinks he's going to get shot, why is he claiming town??? This is the most absurd thing ever. Anywho, I have a scumread on toad, but I want BKE lynched firstGood stuff Z-Boson wat? Number 1 was already explained and I said I did that on purpose. 1Number 2 was already explained in the post itself as I said it's already quite a wall of text and I don't want to spam up the thread even more. I don't feel like posting way more cases right now either for that reason. We've got a bunch of cases and there's no need to spam more right now. 2Number 3 is supposed to mean what? I claimed town, so what? Think mafia is going to shoot me because they now know I'm town, which they knew before I "claimed" as well? It's not like I claimed a role. Claiming town makes no difference about whether or not I'm going to get shot. It's not like they're going to say to themselves "crap, that dude just claimed town, we've got to deal with him NOW". 3
1: You said you did it on purpose, and it had already served its purpose. There was no reason for you to continue doing it after alerting the thread to your "ploy." However, this ties more in to my response in #3
2: The last thing you should be concerned about when making a "goodbye I'm going to get shot" post is spamming up the thread, especially when you believe you have critical information that could help the town. WTF is the point of pointing out your reads to other players in a goodbye post if you're not going to provide your rationale?
3: It's more of a scumtell that marvellosity described to me a while back. When someone's trying to tell you they're town and tell you a bunch of other people are suspicious/scummy/whatever (without reasoning to boot), they're likely mafia.
But claiming town literally makes no sense in the context of the post. It's a goodbye post. There's no reason to claim town in a goodbye post. If you think you're going to get shot, why the fuck would you claim town? It's pretty goddamn self-evident.
|
Is PTP3 alone enough to make a meta comparison? I'm curious if there are any other games he buddies/is-semi-serious as a townie. I'm not familiar with Grush's meta, but I find that a pretty weak reason to get him killed.
|
Bah just woke up. Still catching up in the thread, but I'm surprised to see a couple of people actually thinking BKE is telling the truth after seeing this:
On September 08 2012 15:58 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Guys this lynch is not happening. Its like 12:00 PST I'll make a good case in the morning, but Im forced to say Im Watcher. Night One I visited BC and got back GK -_-.
This is impossible no? If GK indeed suicide bombed as many of us are assuming, isn't this a pretty obvious lie?
|
Thankfully things are getting active in here again, but I wanted to discuss the BKE fake-claim a bit.
I think all of us agree that the likely order of events last night consisted of double-stacking one person, while suicide bombing the other (between BC and DrH). BKE's watcher claim suggests that it was BC who got double-stacked and BM24 who got suicide-bombed.
Now unless something about the Day2 post suggests otherwise, this seems highly unlikely. BC was much more of a confirmed town (after outing Mattchew) than DrH was. To the average reader here, BC would seem like much more of a target for blue actions (watcher, medic, etc.) during the night. Isn't it much more likely for mafia to have suicide-bombed BC? There would be a much higher chance of blue's visiting BC after he caught the first mafia. I find it so unlikely that DrH was suicide bombed (over BC), and this is why I'm doubting the BKE claim.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
