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Shady Sands
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On August 14 2012 12:59 GMarshal wrote: Didn't you request replacement in the last newbie game? Sent a PM with explanation | ||
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On August 16 2012 22:25 Obvious.660 wrote: Remote Desktop Logmein Just to add a couple. If you try this at work though, aren't you at risk of being fired? | ||
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## Vote Palmar | ||
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On August 22 2012 06:31 Obvious.660 wrote: 1/4 is pushing it. Consider that a random "whatever whoever" lynch only promotes people to defend themselves, and not scum partners, essentially leaving you at a 1/11 chance the next day when there are no clear links established between players post-flip. I consider random voting a good way to waste an entire day cycle and lose at least two of our fellow townsmen/women (one to lynch, one to NK) in the process. Since when is 1 in 4 good odds? Those of you who are FOR a random lynch, what makes you comfortable betting your life against 1 in 4 odds? Tell you what, we'll put everyone who is okay with a random lynch into the random-lynch pool and we'll randomly lynch from that pool, just so everyone is okay with it, deal? So you're basically saying everyone who is against random lynch gets to randomly vote for one person from people who are for random lynch? This would make lots of sense... in a mental hospital. | ||
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On August 22 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote: Might take the suggestion seriously if you didn't have your vote on someone who's made several posts already Well the first vote was a rando-vote. | ||
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On August 22 2012 07:13 marvellosity wrote: was it random? or did you in fact simply choose Palmar. Would it make you feel better if I showed you the 11 sided dice I was rolling? | ||
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On August 22 2012 07:17 marvellosity wrote: no, but it'd make me feel better if you didn't bs me ^^ ^^ While we're at it, how about a clear statement from you on lynching lurkers vs rando-voting vs whatever other idea you have... instead of fingering people for yoda-speak and rando-voting | ||
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On August 22 2012 07:23 marvellosity wrote: you want me to talk about policy instead of picking up on actual events in thread? I'd at least like you to give a point of view. | ||
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On August 22 2012 07:24 VisceraEyes wrote: If there's no scummy candidate, I'm okay with lurker lynching. OH SHEWT NOW SCUMS GONNA NOT BE SCUMMY Come on Shady. Are you interested in helping town? Did you random Palmar or didn't you? I happen to know that there's not an 11 sided dice, and if you excluded yourself then the vote isn't truly "random", so either answer the question truthfully and play the game with us, or refuse to answer the question and prepare to be bandwagoned into next Friday. THE POWER IS YOURS!!! Yes, I randomed Palmar. I closed my eyes and pointed at the laptop screen, and the person I laid my finger on was Palmar. And props for catching onto the 11-sided die reference. We may have a budding topological mathematician in the works here, watch out... | ||
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On August 22 2012 07:33 Lvdr wrote: I support lynching lurkers. Just as a tidbit, I've never been mafia on here, but I decided that if I was: I would accuse a random player in the manner of Shady D1. This post doesn't smell right. | ||
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On August 22 2012 07:39 Obvious.660 wrote: Lurkers absolutely suck past day 2, so I agree that lurker lynches are a good fallback option. I'm also wary of easy lynches too. My experience with TL mafia has been that if it's too easy it's probably too good to be true. We're not even past 24 hours yet though so let's not get too ahead of ourselves by focusing on lurkers just yet. Also, I agree with Shady that the LoveDoctor doesn't smell right. His olfactory glands are probably on his elbows. This doesn't smell right either. First you say: Lurker lynches good backup Then you say: Easy lynches bad Then you say: Not good to do lurker lynches just yet. Then you make a non-sequitur attempt at humor. So basically if we shouldn't go for lurker lynches, and we shouldn't call out the guy who is obviously scummy, then what, exactly, should we be doing? | ||
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On August 22 2012 07:59 Chezinu wrote: This thread is extremely boring. I am not allowed to lighten up the thread, because I am playing a sane game. 1.) marvellosity 2.) talismania 3.) Lvdr 4.) Bluelightz 5.) Obvious.660 6.) iamperfection 7.) Shady Sands 8.) Djagulingu 9.) Palmar 10.) Kville 11.) VisceraEyes 12.) Chezinu Let us first look at the setup. We have 12 players and 3 of them are mafia. From the list, I recognized 3 players that i have played with previously. The majority of the players are from the United States, we have one from Indonesia, one from the United Kingdom, one from Iceland, and another from nowhere land. As the thread seems dead, I would predict based upon the location of the users playing this game that they are mostly likely coming home from work or in class and will start posting soon. This game will be a bit challenging for me with the majority of the players being new in terms of playing with me. I remember when I posted lists in Newbie XXIII I got called out for posting fluff, and nearly got lynched for it. | ||
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On August 22 2012 08:13 marvellosity wrote: That's not what he said, why are you saying it is? How isn't that what he said? He said that if a lynch looks too easy it's probably a bad lynch. Isn't that just like saying those who are obviously scummy are probably not? | ||
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On August 22 2012 08:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Could he be talking about the phenomenon of wagons not having any resistance when it's on a townie? I think that's probably what he's referring to Shady...correct me if I'm wrong Obvious. Fair enough, I'll admit that is often the case. | ||
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On August 22 2012 08:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, Hapa's nothing to scoff at Lvdr - I take it you learned a valuable lesson that game? I sure did. Never to trust a quicktopic thread again. | ||
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On August 22 2012 08:35 talismania wrote: Hey people I don't know: who are you and how you play? I don't follow the newbie games but it seems like you all know each other. Gimme your meta thoughts on each other. Right now I only really have a sense for how VE and marv play out of everyone in this game. Are you asking for everyone's filters from prior games? | ||
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On August 22 2012 09:37 VisceraEyes wrote: And for what it's worth, I'm listening to Mudvayne right now, Mr. Bungle next...techno isn't in the rotation for...neigh on forever. Kavinsky ftw. Put nightcall on repeat, gogo | ||
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On August 22 2012 18:36 Djagulingu wrote: I'm a little bit familiar with how shady plays. He lurked to the death as scum in Newbie MM 23 (which was his first game as far as I know), was pretty active and attended the scumhunt pretty well in 24 up until he got lynched at the end of day1. Meta analysis suggests that this Shady we have seen up to now is more like the scum one in Newbie MM 23. However (I don't know how big of a factor this is but) he could be a lot less easygoing in his first game of mafia, being a scum is another factor contributing to that, just like this being his first game against bigger dawgz (which I'm not one of) and not newbies might also cause him being less easygoing. On the other hand though he might have taken lessons from NMM23 as well, which may help him adapt his scum play better into bigger dawgz. I don't know and can't estimate how well or poorly he adapted though. Other than that, I'm not familiar with any of the players, except for the notorious troll Chezinu (from BH's explanations in this thread). Should add that my first game was actually Newbie XXII, where I flipped mason and tried to follow Keir's lead on pretty much everything up until he got NK'd since he was the other mason and more experienced. I'm disappointed with the level of activity here. I think that we're letting lurkers get off a little too easy. I'm especially suspicious of people who haven't posted, as it's already been a full 12 hours since the game started, more than enough time for players to post. Moreover, this playstyle is unfair to town, since town by default has to go off of evidence to scumhunt and if everyone is lurking scum gets a free ride in terms of not having to give up much evidence. I'm going to go with a rando-vote on a lurker unless someone can claim me otherwise with a compelling case. I haven't yet seen a case that's good enough so far. | ||
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One thing I am going to require: all lurkers who are making their first posts in here from now on, if you don't make a case in the post (given all that's happened in the thread already) I am going to vote for a lynch on you. Why? This forces scum to choose to bus or shoot for a mislynch right from their first post in the thread, giving them zero opportunity to "test the waters" on the town's reaction to their claim. A townie should have no problems with this. Only scum should be made uncomfortable by this requirement. | ||
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All aboard the midnight express... to hell. | ||
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On August 22 2012 21:42 Kville wrote: Lemmings will be lemmings and you just happend to be the one in front. What i gathered is that you claim to 'sheep' and yet you yourself have done nothing else but provide one liners and start nothing but chaos. If it makes you feel any better #Vote marvellosity to this: On August 23 2012 01:02 Kville wrote: The question of what i thought of talis and obvious? Well i can't say much about talis but his posts do seem a little sketchy aslways as obvious. My top three suspects seem to be : talis obvious shady I'll post more about these three later when i get home from my classes. Until then ##Unvote In the span of 3 posts. That's pretty wierd. Marv goes from being a vote to being not even in his top 3. With no justification on any of his reads except a rain check. | ||
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That's strange. Shouldn't the town response be to build a solid case on someone instead of posting rainchecked analysis? | ||
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On August 23 2012 01:20 Obvious.660 wrote: Djagulingu, you're right and perhaps I should have cast my vote earlier in the game. I did, however, want to give the people who hadn't participated much a chance to show their initial scumminess before casting my first vote. The first thing I want to bring up right now is BL (and others') suspicions of me for not voting Palmar based on being convinced that he truly intended to push for random lynch. Being my first game with Palmar, I wasn't certain that he was indeed serious about his claim there. My response to this line of inquiry about me was to, as VE put it, put the ball in Palmar's court to find out why exactly it was he proposed and endorsed a random lynch. I never did get a satisfactory response from Palmar about this. Palmar, would you be so kind as to share why you have once again pushed for a random lynch? KVille is pretty scummy-looking right now. Could you give a clear read yourself on him, one way or another, instead of simply questioning him and moving on? | ||
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On August 23 2012 01:20 Kville wrote: You are correct. There should be a solid case, which is where my mistake was given such little time given at this moment i cannot post one right now which is why I provided much little information about what i gathered about my suspects Which is the sole reason why I withdrew my vote. Does not mean he is off my radar, So basically you're pretending to agree with me to make me think we are on the same page even though you logically claim to be on the opposite side from me. AKA appeasing me and sweeping it under the rug, just like you did with Marv. | ||
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On August 22 2012 21:42 Kville wrote: Lemmings will be lemmings and you just happend to be the one in front. What i gathered is that you claim to 'sheep' and yet you yourself have done nothing else but provide one liners and start nothing but chaos. If it makes you feel any better #Vote marvellosity This makes no sense. How does "leader lemming" = scum? Also, you're twisting Marv's efforts to spark discussion here--a perfectly townish action--into scummy play. Why? | ||
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On August 23 2012 01:32 Kville wrote: No your still a scum and i plan to prove it. Wha? My response was directed at your Marv vote. You vote Marv, then you withdraw your vote. Then in your defense of that withdrawal above, you say that there should still be a solid case on Marv, which you cannot post right now because you are short on time. Which is why you withdraw your vote, but he is still on your radar. But then you fail to include him on your list of scummy players. | ||
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On August 23 2012 01:32 Kville wrote: No your still a scum and i plan to prove it. FYI, now it just looks like you're trapped and you're blindly OMGUSing because there's nothing else you can do. | ||
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On August 23 2012 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Interesting. However, that aside, his actions since joining the game are damning. He stated upon returning that he wants to lynch lurkers because "they're bad for town later". However, as his recent play shows, lurkers was never really an issue for him...because there are still people who qualify as lurkers in the game (damaging, even) yet he's contented to ride this Kville wagon. Why? Doesn't he care about town? Didn't he want to remedy the lurker situation? So what you're saying is that just because KV has started posting, I should switch my vote to players who are still lurking, while completely ignoring the content of what KV has posted? My read on KV stands because of the lurkiness of his posts. Policy lynching lurkers is never meant to be a hard and fast rule--it's always there to flush bad town players and scum out into the open. Thought you knew that, VE, since you were quite knowledgeable about that point when you coached the newbie games. | ||
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This is what I wrote: I'm disappointed with the level of activity here. I think that we're letting lurkers get off a little too easy. I'm especially suspicious of people who haven't posted, as it's already been a full 12 hours since the game started, more than enough time for players to post. Moreover, this playstyle is unfair to town, since town by default has to go off of evidence to scumhunt and if everyone is lurking scum gets a free ride in terms of not having to give up much evidence. I'm going to go with a rando-vote on a lurker unless someone can claim me otherwise with a compelling case. I haven't yet seen a case that's good enough so far. I clearly state that it is because I haven't seen a good case that I want to go with a rando-vote on a lurker. Would appreciate it if VE didn't twist that to somehow mean I wanted to lynch lurkers no matter what happened in the thread. | ||
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On August 23 2012 03:23 talismania wrote: upcaught! VE I was with you on shady until he started going after kville. I thought the reasoning behind going for lurkers smelled like bs but the way he went after kville was genuine. like picking up on the fact that marv was out of kville's list is a townie trait and it all fits with what people say about him being a tunneler. Thanks for the support... what's your read on KVille? | ||
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On August 23 2012 02:05 Obvious.660 wrote: Alllllrightythen. I'll take a look at Kville, who apparently came into the thread to push some suspicion away from himself and cast wild accusations at others. Then to disappear. So that's cool I guess. So his preliminary, opening "case" that is his list of people have "sketchy posts": Followed up by adding Marv who has has already cast suspicion on AND voted for, after being called out for forgetting to add him to the list. So there's no evidence exactly what those sketchy posts were, outside of the train of votes for Kville and somehow the interactions between those players being evidence of a scum team?This post above is making mountains from molehills. Implying connections this early in a mini game, where people working together (scums, masons) are likely to be far more careful of being linked by meta-factors such as post timing, is rather silly. It's a good bit of evidence to bring up when looking at other such coincidences and making further reads, but until those situations present themselves I just don't see any justification for making the call that it's linking them as scum partners. I think I like this one the most, though:Marv has earned his FOS and Vote for what I see as OMGUS reasons, and Kville is now certain that he has found a second scum in Shady Sands. Oooookay. Next we're going to hear how if X flips Red then Y must be Red? Kville's entire train of though needs to be explained. So basically your read on KV is that his train of thought on Marv and me is suspect/OMGUS, as well as his attempt to link Marv and DJ? | ||
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On August 23 2012 04:55 marvellosity wrote: don't we have forever until deadline? game started early so i think it's tomorrow evening/night, no? Got about 26 hours. btw thanks for sticking up for me back there. | ||
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On August 23 2012 05:13 Kville wrote: Ok sorry, Reason im not scum in order by my filter -I was thrown under bus becuase i was supposed lurker -Tried to counter the vote and suspected marv based on his recent one liners and random lynch on me -All i tired to do was end the accusations on me -Turned heads towards shady based on filters between VE and shady even more so since the recent ones came out. -obvious filters seem out of ordinary as well same as marvs Im not a scum just quick reaction responses becuase of the scenario and place i was at (school). If anything im liking VEs choice and the way he is basing his decisions. Thrown under the bus? Who threw you under the bus? Your defense is: --people are picking on me --I tried to defend but I was at school/afk --point fingers at shady, obvious, and marv (forgetting about the other lurker, talis? or are you not looking at lurkers anymore?) --then saying "fuck it, im just gna sheep VE" and finally a semi-slip by using the phrase thrown under the bus This is either terribad town play or... terribad scum play. It's so off the scale, i'm not even sure how to read it | ||
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On August 23 2012 05:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Did you not just whine at me about this? JUST NOW SHADY? Yeah, but at least I gave some damn good reasons for tunneling KVille like a railroad engineer and dropping my focus on lurkers. KV, on the other hand, didn't. | ||
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On August 23 2012 05:47 VisceraEyes wrote: This is patently false. I had you as a scum-read before you even came back into the thread Shady. This is Shady claiming scum everyone, please take note and vote accordingly. Your scum-reads before I came back into the thread were incoherent (kind of like Chezinu's post above), so I ignored those. Your accusation after I came back into the thread made some sense so I responded to it and I remember it. | ||
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On August 23 2012 05:23 talismania wrote: dear lord what happened there. I think I typed in the quote: "continuing my trend of what? I never vote early D1. I'm not a fan of how my name keeps floating up for seemingly no reason." FYI, what are your top scumreads at the moment? Anyone deserving of an FoS or vote? | ||
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On August 23 2012 05:58 Lvdr wrote: @VE It is entirely possible Shady misunderstood your suspicions. In my last few games we have had to deal with a lot of suspicious Bad townies. This is what shady looks like me right now. This statement is really over the top. You seem too experienced to push this as town; therefore I find your behavior scummy. ##Vote: VisceraEyes I have no idea as to VE's meta, so I'd hesitate to make a read like this. If he's scum, he's playing very fast and loose for one. That being said, though, VE I find your waffling between me and KVille kind of strange. If KVille looks really scummy to you, and I look really scummy to you, how does that make sense when I started tunneling KV aggressively before he really came up on anyone's radar? (Especially when I could have rando-voted another lurker instead of piliing on the train?) I just want to get your thoughts on that, since there may be something I haven't caught yet and you are (according to people in XXII) one of the best mafia players here. | ||
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On August 23 2012 06:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh really? This was before you entered the thread. So you're either not reading the thread (my guess) or you're blatantly and maliciously misrepresenting the facts. Which is it Shady? Your first post there is empty. Your second post is based on posts from the first half of D1, a grand total of only a few posts from me when most people hadn't even started serious discussions yet. Basically, your second post was non-indicative of anything, so I didn't think it was important. I'm sorry if you think it is. | ||
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On August 23 2012 06:00 Lvdr wrote: Also in a show of great irony I second VE's analysis of chez's post. Scum hate making their own cases. It is much easier to get on board someone else's. Chez seems to be explicitly asking to do just this. Agreed here. Chez doesn't make sense. Chez, can you stop trolling us and actually post a case? | ||
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On August 23 2012 06:09 VisceraEyes wrote: It is important, as it displays a complete lack of any kind of concern about helping the thread find scum. The section of the day you're dismissing as "not indicative of alignment" is, in my opinion, one of the BEST points in the game to find skating by, aloof scum such as yourself. I'm sorry if you don't think it is, but I'm afraid you're mistaken. Got it. I'll keep that in mind for future games, I guess, but I mostly have a difficult time finding scumreads early D1 myself. After this is over, maybe you can PM me some tips and tricks for doing it. | ||
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On August 23 2012 06:16 Chezinu wrote: I'm not trolling. You have to get reactions before you can accuse people. Don't you think there's enough raw material in the thread to build a case with now? | ||
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Because if that's all he brings to the table, then he is my clearest scumread ATM and I am officially switching from a rando-vote on KVille to a vote based on a scumread. | ||
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On August 23 2012 06:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Regardless of what I think about you, I can get behind this...although I thought your read had already switched to a scumread. Yeah I had a scumread on KVille but I wasn't willing to base my vote on it just yet. But if that's all KV is bringing to the table then I'm going to base my vote on it. (Before, it was just a rando-vote on a lurker.) | ||
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On August 23 2012 06:54 VisceraEyes wrote: AH, the CRUX. In asking if I have a history of "successfully reading scum D1", ven if I have 100% accuracy in the past, this is completely meaningless unless you are operating under the premise that I'm town and am READING Shady. It shows his true thoughts on me (that I'm town) hiding beneath his actions (his vote, the questions, the ruse) and betrays preexisting knowledge of my alignment. Chez, you truly are inspirational. ##Unvote ##Vote Lvdr I guess I'm being mildly retarded here, but I don't actually understand how this is a slip. VE can you please explain? | ||
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On August 23 2012 07:06 VisceraEyes wrote: He's wondering if I'm "reading you accurately" while voting me. He's SAYING he thinks I'm scum, but he slips my alignment in asking if I'm "reading you accurately"...which is something only town can do (scum don't read anyone, they know everyone's alignment). Ah, ok. In that case I'd be fine with a lynch on Lvdr, although I still stand by my read on KVille. | ||
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On August 23 2012 07:06 talismania wrote: reposting this: I have read this like ten times now and it seems pretty clear that he is claiming mafia. Is this... I mean, what? Is this really a troll? I can't understand it from either alignment unless it's just a straight-up slip. This better not be a bastard mafia game where Chez rolled Jester. | ||
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On August 23 2012 07:09 VisceraEyes wrote: The fact that he completely disappears while apparently "awaiting responses to his question" in light of all this is pretty damning too, tbh. I'm flipping through his filter right now, to see if we can do any association scumtells. | ||
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On August 23 2012 06:30 talismania wrote: kville for reasons stated. djasldkfhlskad because his first post didn't sit well with me. too overcomposed, nothiung like the kind of posts he made pre-game. he was also more engaged pre-game than in the game. but he's strange to read because his top suspect changes every few posts and I don't know why. for some reason I was his top suspect, but it was never explained why that was the case, even though he at least posted some about obvious when he FoS'd him. Got it. Funny that you mention his pre-game behavior not matching up with in-game--didn't notice this on my first pass through his filter but definitely is apparent now. Oh well, further cements the scumread on him. Lvdr looks really scummy right now. | ||
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On August 23 2012 07:13 VisceraEyes wrote: You seem pretty certain of it to be checking the thread for all that - yet your vote remains on KVille. How ODD. And why haven't you been doing that with regard to KVille? I won't make a scumread vote on someone until after they've had a chance to defend themselves. Also, I have been doing association scumtells through KVille but he points fingers in so many different directions it's pretty hard to do so. | ||
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The guy never endorses the lynch-lurker position, then lurks pretty hard himself. Why is he adopting such a lurker-friendly stance? Also, he drops one liners calling people out either 1) flinging baseless accusations or 2) not participating. If you look at those 2 claims, you'll realize he can essentially put everyone into those 2 buckets, as loud players go into bucket 1, and quiet players into bucket 2. So his MO is essentially a wash. Third issue is why he seems to go out of his way to make himself seem like an active participant: On August 23 2012 14:23 Bluelightz wrote: For now, ##Vote:marvellosity Some reasons 1. Takes the easy lynch target, and only because of him lurking, and doesn't provide additional reasons. 2. His post's are mostly one-liners with the occasional suspicion More reasons later as I read more :/ On August 23 2012 12:08 Bluelightz wrote: Well, I'm here. I'm honestly not sure why BL is constantly reminding people that he's here and promising additional analysis... and then not delivering. For those reasons ##FoS BlueLightz | ||
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On August 23 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote: Why are you only FoSing him when you were quite happy to follow my vote on kville, backed up with even less reasoning? Because there wasn't a good case around at the time yet. But now there are a bunch of good cases. My reason I'm not voting him is because 1) I feel that the case on KVille is a lot stronger 2) BL hasn't had a chance to respond to the charges yet I generally believe in giving people a chance to respond before voting them. Seems fair that way. | ||
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On August 23 2012 21:55 Kville wrote: I will cast it before i attend work, most likely it will remain to be shady. But lets look at the case: Obviously i'm just a bad townie. Who more to target than someone who blantantly messed upon entering. Scums only seek easy targets, which is why he never attacks VE becuase he is strong and will be almost impossible to attack during the day. I already made my name and he will use it until he completely seals the deal. The problem with the bad townie defense is that every tell associated with being a bad townie could also be associated with being scum. So KV constantly arguing he's a bad townie is a null tell in my opinion, which means he's done nothing to dissociate himself from the case on his head. On the other hand, if he built a case on something other than OMGUS, he might be able to persuade me. | ||
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On August 23 2012 22:07 Kville wrote: 1. I never argured about being a bad townie until now? 2. I'm not trying to persuade you that i'm not a scum so it's irrevelant to provide any information to what you say. Why would I tell anything to a scum to further, inorder plant onto someone else? That is just helping you target someone. Your falling apart now Bro. ##Vote Shady Sands No, KV's been talking about being a bad townie for quite a while. There should be a solid case, which is where my mistake was given such little time given at this moment i cannot post one right now which is why I provided much little information about what i gathered about my suspects Which is the sole reason why I withdrew my vote. Im not a scum just quick reaction responses becuase of the scenario and place i was at (school). He now knows that since i am at a corner he can keep piling the bandwagon and keep attacking until the lynch comes and he will find others to attack and go back to strike again. Obviously i'm just a bad townie. Who more to target than someone who blantantly messed upon entering. Every single one of these quotes, from his first defense of why he unlisted Marv up til now, has contained some excuse or another for seemingly anti-town play. That's what I call a classic "bad townie" defense... and it's been ongoing. The second point KV makes here just digs him in further. I'm not trying to persuade you that i'm not a scum so it's irrevelant to provide any information to what you say. Why would I tell anything to a scum to further, inorder plant onto someone else? That is just helping you target someone. KV assumes that he no longer needs to persuade me that he's not a scum because I am scum. But there's still the rest of the town to speak to. Why does KV assume that the rest of the town won't care when he flat out says he no longer needs to build cases on anyone, because that would just "help me target people?" By that logic, wouldn't anyone building cases on anyone else be detrimental, because they could help scum other than me target people, given that there's more than one scum in this game? Clearly, that line of logic is incorrect. Ergo--the above quote is exceedingly anti-town, not to mention illogical, and further cements my read on him. | ||
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On August 24 2012 02:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Gah there's not is there. JESUS WHY? All right... ##Unvote ##Vote: Obvious I thought there were WAY more votes on Lvdr. You're not sold on KVille? | ||
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On August 24 2012 01:19 Bluelightz wrote: Don't have much time, have to sleep but i'll defend: 1.Is it not bad that people are just flinging around reasonless accusations? (or stuff) 2.Are the people I am accusing of not participating participating? 3.I said I am here, but I got too focused on games 4.Last promise, I'll deliver tommorow on my summary on marv (depending if my read changes or not, if it does change im going to do an analysis on the person its changed to) I'm still suspicious of marv though, so my vote is still on him, there's a small chance I'm going to be there for the lynch as well. This defense is weak. 1/2 don't address the point, which is that you can potentially auto-accuse anyone given your criteria. 3 is a cop-out and mostly null to me. 4 is really wierd because tomorrow = after the lynch, which means his analysis won't be of use until the lynchvote after a full Day/Night cycle. this is a huge scumtell in my opinion, because it means that BL is speaking under the assumption that marv will somehow survive past the night. The only two individuals who can feel that confident about marv surviving the night would be medic (targeting to protect from NK) or scum (not NKing marv.) Given that BL is accusing marv of being scum before a wagon has come into play, I highly doubt he is a medic planning to protect marv. The only possibility left is that he is a scum. For that reason, as well as the insufficient defense, I switch my vote to BL. ## Unvote ## Vote BlueLightz | ||
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On August 24 2012 04:09 VisceraEyes wrote: He comes across as townie. He was attacked, I feel he adequately defended...and your case on him reads as diversionary to the Obgious wagon Palmar is pushing. Because I am leaning town on Palmar and null on Obvious, the math is pretty easy.w Hang on, why do you feel BL is townie? Also if town Palmar is pushing a null Obvious, then how is a case that looks diversionary to that case a scumtell? | ||
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On August 24 2012 04:14 Shady Sands wrote: Hang on, why do you feel BL is townie? Also if town Palmar is pushing a null Obvious, then how is a case that looks diversionary to that case a scumtell? Also, VE, by the same logic, if I read BL as scum, and you come in here launching a vote on Marv with very little explanation, then aren't you also scummy for playing diversionary tactics? | ||
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BL KVille I'd be fine with a lynch on either one of these. Still need to re-examine Lvdr -- seemed really scummy when I left thread earlier, but now seems to have dropped below the radar. Will have to reread thread to figure out why | ||
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Above all else, we need to avoid a no-lynch. | ||
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You've been by far the most active poster in the entire thread. Yet you can't be bothered to build a case for Marv, even though you're voting for him, even though he is NOT an easy lynch (one of the other big active posters here), even though it is 5 hours away from deadline. And you give no reason to lynch or not lynch BL other than the fact that you want to sheep the active townies. This sets you up to gain towncred after a BL green flip, which will likely happen given how hard it will be get another wagon rolling between now and lynch. This last point I just brought up is why I think you're scum, VE. BL's posting has been massively scummy and most reasonable townies who are reading this thread are including BL on their lists, even troll posters like Chez. In XXII, we had a similar situation, and the person that suddenly defended the "obvious lynch" ended up flipping GF. I nearly fucked up there and got a VT lynched because I was hell bent on tunneling the "obvious lynch." But looking at what's going on right now, I have major feelings of deja vu. In this case, I'm going to say fuck it. Even though there's 5 hours left I am not making the same mistake twice. ## Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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On August 24 2012 06:10 marvellosity wrote: Shady, I think VE is quite unlikely to be scum. Please vote for a candidate that might actually get lynched. Why? Other than a case on Lvdr he actually hasn't built a coherent argument. | ||
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On August 24 2012 06:29 iamperfection wrote: stop wasting your vote shady get back in here. Alright fine. ## Unvote ## Vote BlueLightz I am much more suspicious of VE now, though. Why does he think BL is innocent? Why does he just go ahead and vote BL anyhow? This whole thing just smells funny. | ||
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On August 24 2012 06:41 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Obvious The eff? This is going to draw us into a mislynch. Also WHY DO YOU THINK BL IS INNOCENT? | ||
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On August 24 2012 06:55 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm trying to get ONE OF my scumreads lynched and not a townie. VE you still haven't answered my fucking question. Why is BL innocent. | ||
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On August 24 2012 07:04 VisceraEyes wrote: Because he hasn't been proven guilty to me Shady now shut the hell up. I'm not going over it again. He reads as town to me. That's not a reason. You're just repeating yourself. Why? | ||
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On August 24 2012 07:13 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah. Silly is how I'd describe this situation too. Except I actually think you are scum fpr more reasons than that and you are oversimplifying the situation in an attempt to make me seem...what bad? Scummy? I can't imagine what town motivation there is fpr such actions. Still no answer? Why do you think BL is not scum? You can't just say "town read" and expect everyone else to accept it. You yourself stated earlier that every townie is precious Now BL is about to get wagoned to death, and you're not even offering arguments in his defense. WTF? | ||
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On August 24 2012 08:04 VisceraEyes wrote: He can't be bothered to defend himself, I'm not going to do it for him. I don't understand why you think this is some big thing. It's really not. You haven't offered any explanation as to why Obvious is town, yet you accuse me of not trying to defend MY townread? Get outta here sir. The reason I'm not defending Obvious is because Obv is in no danger of being lynched. If I see a townie about to be lynched, I'd defend them, simple as that, especially in a case like this where a clear wagon was being formed and the deadline was hours away. I thought this is something you'd do as well, especially given that you flat out stated that every townie is precious in a mini game. | ||
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On August 24 2012 09:06 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote Bluelightz I still think Blue is town. But yeah, this town needs something. Flip information. Something to base cases on. After a day like today, I don't think a no-lynch is going to benefit town more than losing a townie in this situation. We NEED information to get active again. Wha? Lynch for information? This is a clear scum-tell. Either lynch for scumminess or don't lynch at all. | ||
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On August 24 2012 08:58 Palmar wrote: obvious that doesn't make sense, seeing as I will indeed kill BL because he's useless even when he's town. That doesn't make this lynch terrible, and marv is probably scum. So you think this lynch isn't terrible, because BL is a useless townie? | ||
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On August 24 2012 09:25 VisceraEyes wrote: Don't be naive. I'll kill any of you to win. Why the verb kill instead of lynch? That's a kind of wierd. | ||
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On August 24 2012 09:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Weird like scummy? Weird like...a duck with a backward bill? For someone who's being a stickler about word choice, yours is pretty interesting as well. I'm saying why would you use the verb lynch in one sentence and the verb kill in the other? | ||
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On August 24 2012 09:30 VisceraEyes wrote: What's your theory? I think it's a slip. Only scum think about killing townies to win. | ||
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On August 24 2012 09:34 VisceraEyes wrote: So why aren't you voting for me? From your perspective I just claimed scum right? And we can only vote for who we think has the highest probability of flipping scum, so surely your vote should be on me right? VE, I did vote for you. I switched to BL after 1) realizing it was too late to start a wagon on you, and 2) seeing that we could already lynch BL, who I have strong scumread on. | ||
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Come the fuck on guys, we can't have a no-lynch right now. | ||
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On August 24 2012 09:37 Palmar wrote: screw it, I'd rather no-lynch than lynch someone I think is town. Good night. What? Didn't you just say you think lynching BL wouldn't be terrible because he's a bad townie? Now you do a 180? | ||
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Complete logical inconsistency between his last two posts. | ||
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Or if his vote is still on BL, then shouldn't it be 6 on BL? | ||
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On August 24 2012 10:04 Bluelightz wrote: yeah I'm probably gonna help kill a townie? That was a joke reference to obvious660 voting himself earlier in the day. | ||
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On August 24 2012 10:04 marvellosity wrote: It looks like the only way we're going to get a majority is to consolidate on Obvious. What do the people on the BL wagon think of him? I think he's town. I think it would be terrible if the stubbornness of one or two players (who look scummy to boot) made us all switch to someone we didn't want to see lynched. That would just be retarded. | ||
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On August 24 2012 10:05 Chezinu wrote: ##unvote ##vote Bluelightz Hooray! Since BL was already on your shortlist of scum players, I won't press you too hard, but could you at least give a short blurb detailing your reasons? | ||
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On August 24 2012 10:06 Lvdr wrote: I'm willing to consolodate on obvious, but i dont like tht so many people are afk so close to the deadline. This is pathetic. ##obvious.660 No don't do it. Chez just voted BL | ||
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On August 24 2012 10:08 Bluelightz wrote: He didn't in unvote it's fine I'm gonna die. Any last words? | ||
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On August 24 2012 10:12 Chezinu wrote: Is it plurality insta lynch or something? No, majority lynch with time limit. | ||
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On August 24 2012 10:19 marvellosity wrote: oh shit. Bluelightz is probably town. Unless this is an insane stunt (which I don't think BL is capable of), my own personal metaread on him (quite proud of its accuracy) is that as townie he's obsessed with other townies, and as scum with scum. His spreadsheet, while ridiculous, absolutely shows his mindset this game. His response also feels townie since he got back. I'm not at all comfortable with this lynch now, and Obvious is the better option. ##Unvote ##Vote: Obvious.660 What the fuck? | ||
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On August 24 2012 10:33 marvellosity wrote: A couple of games ago in a game with him I back-filtered about 6 games of his. Every time he was town he was obsessed with townies, every time he was scum he'd make scumreads. Unfortunately I was too emotionally invested in other stuff in NMM2, but go take a look where he was scum there. Lots of scum reads, no town reads. And you're willing to chuck everything else you've written about BL out the window on the basis of only your meta? You haven't cited meta as the sole point of any of your other reads, but for the one read which determines your vote, that's how you swing it? | ||
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On August 24 2012 10:36 marvellosity wrote: it's not been wrong yet, and yes i do feel very strongly about it. A decent part of my case was that he didn't care about the lynch and he's here caring about the lynch (even if it does involve himself). He said there was a small chance he'd be here for deadline but he is. All he had to do was show up and he'd get a free pass from you? You do realize that if you believe he already had that Excel written out, then his "caring for the lynch" is even smaller than before--all he had to do was just post a freaking link to a Google Doc. He didn't even go through the trouble of copy pasting things into the thread. What? | ||
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KVille backed off on his OMGUS... to switch it to an OMGUS on me, lol. Then he forgot all about the other two people on his list and tried to tunnel. I'm null on Talis. Let me read through his filter and get back to you on him. | ||
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On August 24 2012 10:51 Palmar wrote: rofl this is excellent! I don't even care if obvious is scum or not now, this is hilarious enough on it's own. I love how that 2 minute conjured up spreadsheet made you all give up on bluelightz. lol Were you the eighth guy browsing the spreadsheet? Why weren't you posting in the thread? | ||
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I'd be fine with voting Talis now. | ||
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On August 24 2012 10:54 Palmar wrote: I was playing dota, what are you talking about? I just came back to the thread. There were eight people browsing the spreadsheet, but only 6 posting in this thread. So I was wondering if you were one of the guys lurking. | ||
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On August 24 2012 11:07 marvellosity wrote: After all that he could at least have had the decency to be scum :/ I'm holding you accountable for this. | ||
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On August 24 2012 11:03 Palmar wrote: meh fuck this shit. Why are you posting a ragepost on Obvious' flip before the night post? | ||
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marvellosity Lvdr iamperfection VisceraEyes Chezinu In order, starts from this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=43#850 I think that scum are in here. As of right now, I have an FoS over all of you. I am going to be staying up late tonight to dig through filters from these five and post my thoughts on this. I fully expect to die or be framed tonight, so I will post my analysis post haste. I also would urge any vigis out there to read said analysis and take some fucking revenge on the folks that led this mislynch. | ||
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On August 24 2012 12:26 Palmar wrote: I'll rethink tomorrow. If you have roles use them wisely. if we have a jailer I don't mind being locked up. If we have a vigilante shoot into the lurkers please. Talis is a good target, maybe shady. marv is a decent target too and perfection. Just pick one. cops go for higher profiles. whatever, just don't be an idiot with your roles. Palmar you didn't answer me. Why did you post a ragepost before the Nightpost flip? | ||
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On August 24 2012 12:31 iamperfection wrote: marvelosity explained it............. Ah, okay, got it. | ||
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On August 25 2012 03:00 marvellosity wrote: I can't remember the games, but WoF was the genesis for these thoughts. See posts like these + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 21:32 Bluelightz wrote: Toad, I know that your not Okay with this, but at least im going to explain how im going to try to find scum :/ 1 Mr Zentor 2 SamuelLJackson (Toadesstern+sandroba hydra) 3 Radfield 4 Snarfs 5 VisceraEyes 6 Phagga 7 prplhz 8 strongandbig 9 Forumite 10 Sbrubbles 11 marvellosity 13 Ace By cutting down the townies who I think are town, There are less people to read,etc. I guess you may just call this by process of elimination. Also, your exaggerating very much, I'm not calling 'EVERYONE' Town. On my suspicions, I have a sneaking feeling that prp is scum, MrZentor I'm debating as well. + Show Spoiler + On April 26 2012 23:04 Bluelightz wrote: Here is my current standings on people before I sleep 1 Mr Zentor 2 SamuelLJackson (Toadesstern+sandroba hydra) 3 Radfield 4 Snarfs 5 VisceraEyes 6 Phagga 7 prplhz 8 strongandbig 9 Forumite 10 Sbrubbles 11 marvellosity 13 Ace That's it? | ||
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On August 25 2012 03:02 marvellosity wrote: Are you completely unable to read? You cited 6 games marv and all you can do to justify a meta read is 2 posts? You said you backfiltered his games. You made it sound very impressive. And this is it? Can you read? | ||
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Here is how it went down: Marv switches from BL based on his read of BL's all-green spreadsheet. Lvdr follows IamP follows VE, who has wanted Obvious dead from the outset, follows Chez follows BL hammers This isn't as bad as it seems. Scum didn't want a mislynch on Obvious, scum wanted a no-lynch to minimize the amount of information town could get from D1. Given how split and apathetic town was close to the deadline, it was certainly possible that they could have pulled it off. But they didn't. In this context, Chez and BL do not look scummy. BL could have easily kept his vote on someone else and gone for a no-lynch. Chez probably assumed BL was going to lynch Obvious, so his vote is a quasi hammer. VE I'm a bit more uncertain on, but his play, while not necessarily pro-lynching-the-right-person, was clearly anti-no-lynch. So his behavior there is basically a null read. This leaves the first three. Marv, Lvdr, and IamP. First, let's look at Marv's reasoning for the switch from BL to Obvious: On August 24 2012 10:19 marvellosity wrote: oh shit. Bluelightz is probably town. Unless this is an insane stunt (which I don't think BL is capable of), my own personal metaread on him (quite proud of its accuracy) is that as townie he's obsessed with other townies, and as scum with scum. His spreadsheet, while ridiculous, absolutely shows his mindset this game. His response also feels townie since he got back. I'm not at all comfortable with this lynch now, and Obvious is the better option. ##Unvote ##Vote: Obvious.660 On August 24 2012 10:26 marvellosity wrote: I find it far more plausible that that was his actual spreadsheet than one invented. Calling everyone town is a ludicrous idea. He also came back for the lynch, and his posts on return seemed townie too. On August 24 2012 10:33 marvellosity wrote: A couple of games ago in a game with him I back-filtered about 6 games of his. Every time he was town he was obsessed with townies, every time he was scum he'd make scumreads. Unfortunately I was too emotionally invested in other stuff in NMM2, but go take a look where he was scum there. Lots of scum reads, no town reads. On August 24 2012 10:36 marvellosity wrote: it's not been wrong yet, and yes i do feel very strongly about it. A decent part of my case was that he didn't care about the lynch and he's here caring about the lynch (even if it does involve himself). He said there was a small chance he'd be here for deadline but he is. It's based purely on meta. And he didn't even list the games he looked at. When I asked him for the games he just listed one game as the "genesis" of his thoughts. Then he started yelling at me T_T. I'm almost inclined to call bullshit on it, but what troubles me is how easily people sheeped. The true culprits here are not Marv but the sheepers, Lvdr and IamP. IamP goes from not suspecting Obvious at all, to saying "I agree" and then sheeping Marv on Obvious. But IamP at least jumped into the thread to rein me in when I went off the reservation and switched my vote to VE rather than BL. So it doesn't seem like he's working for a no-lynch. That leaves Lvdr. Here's his filter: On August 23 2012 05:58 Lvdr wrote: @VE It is entirely possible Shady misunderstood your suspicions. In my last few games we have had to deal with a lot of suspicious Bad townies. This is what shady looks like me right now. This statement is really over the top. You seem too experienced to push this as town; therefore I find your behavior scummy. ##Vote: VisceraEyes He starts with a quick vote on VE. Then he defends himself from VE's scumslip accusation at him, then FOS's Chez and BL. Then he switches his vote to BL. This is where things get a little wierd. On August 24 2012 07:42 Lvdr wrote: Ok I'm back, and I still think ve smells funny. Total gut feel so I'm not going to vote it today. Of the lynch candidates I think bl or chez would be the best. Given that chez is not on the block... ##vote bluelightz Got some reading to do. Apparently his "gut feel" on VE was enough to make him clog up the thread with questions on VE, and even when those questions were never answered, he somehow forgets about them, then unvotes VE and switches to BL for the simple reason that BL hasn't posted enough content. Then he starts asking about VE again instead of trying to persuade other people of a lynch on BL. Then finger points Palmar for the no lynch move. Then says he's willing to consolidate on Obvious and switches his vote to Obvious before a consensus is clear on obvious. But in spite of looking dorky and out of touch through this whole process, he is following the vote process closely. When someone asks how many votes are necessary, he jumps to the call and informs "7 vote lynch." Then finally he sheeps Marv--but critically, after he sheeps Marv, this is what he posts: On August 24 2012 10:28 Lvdr wrote: Most times the simplest explanation is also the right one. This game has been very confusing so the "alltown" read is possible. Smells very mislynchy to me. It's almost like he's trying inject uncertainty into the vote minutes before lynch deadline. Advocating an alltown read then also smacks of trying to push for a no-lynch. Then says "lynch obv, he's eating dinner." At this point, it just looks like he doesn't give a shit. Then finally when Obvious comes back into the thread, he takes the first angry post Obvious makes and calls it a scumtell: But note that he only does this AFTER ALL SEVEN VOTES ARE IN. Basically he does nothing to encourage lynch before the hammer and only flips to feeling good about Obv lynch after he's hammered. Based on Lvdr's D1 behavior and his extremely pro-no-lynch behavior after the Obvious switch, I'm going to call for a vigi hit and/or D2 lynch on him. Finally, there are a few association theories which I think we can draw, but only after Lvdr flips. Conclusion: [b]## Vote Lvdr and/or vigi whack him. | ||
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## Vote Lvdr and/or vigi whack him. | ||
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3. Straight up I am suspicious of VE, I have made numerous posts about it. 6. Obvious was #3 on my lynch list behind BL and Chez. Given your suspicion on VE, where did VE go on your lynch list? | ||
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On August 25 2012 05:37 Kville wrote: Best bedtime story ever! is all I gotta say. This became interesting. Aren't you going to post reads instead of fluff? You're still under FoS. | ||
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On August 25 2012 04:49 iamperfection wrote: Why would you not share your theories? Because 1) They're not that useful prior to having Lvdr's alignment revealed 2) I don't want to give scum information during nighttime. I will likely post them around 1-3 minutes before the dayflip. | ||
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On August 25 2012 04:49 Lvdr wrote: VE was #4. He is an active and productive poster, and killing him as town would be a blow to the town. However as I have stated http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=23#454 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=24#463 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=24#469 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=26#514 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=27#524 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=27#529 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=39#770 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=39#773 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=39#774 Maybe this is just me being paranoid, but for what its worth here are my suspicions of VE. If VE was #4 why didn't you mention that in your original post? He was your top read for most of D1. The thing is, all throughout D1 you never mentioned obvious as being scummy (barely even mentioned him at all) up until the point where he'd already been hammered. Now you're claiming you find obvious a better lynch than VE, who you were pretty much FoSing for 40 straight hours? | ||
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Okay. What do you think about my Lvdr read? | ||
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Here are my top reads at the moment: KVille -- Disappeared for most of D1. Never responded properly to our accusations. Pops into thread to say hi. Has nothing to say about the Obvious mislynch. BlueLightz and Marv -- Either they're both scum or they're both not. Basically I don't buy Marv's reasoning. Given that, he pulled a high risk maneuver for one reason: to save a scum BL. If Lvdr doesn't flip scum I recommend going after Marv and BL. VE -- My read has shifted to null. Going after Obvious that early (before the lynch on him was assured) is a town move. No scum would push for a mislynch that hard at that stage. Although his mysterious townread on BL leaves him on the watchlist. IamP -- Scummy play throughout. Hit him hard. Watchlist. | ||
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Anyhow, everybody: No vigi hit on Lvdr means I say we lynch him. Please read my case above, and consider that a starting point for our D2 discussion. | ||
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On August 25 2012 11:10 Bluelightz wrote: Noooooo shut the hell up, you and your scum buddies are probably cheering this in the QT. | ||
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I was the only guy who didn't go along with the Obvious wagon. People had me down as a confirmed townie. | ||
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On August 25 2012 11:24 VisceraEyes wrote: I was using your words - you said you're gonna get mislynched, so I said mislynched...it was meant to tell you that if you get lynched it's of your own doing just as much as it would be Shady for posting like that. And besides, that wouldn't be "something [you] don't"...in theory you should know your own alignment. This is wierd. First you seem to have prior knowledge of BL being town. Then you make slips like this. Then you defend this question from BL in such a careful way that you don't reveal whether you think BL is town or scum. ## FoS VisceraEyes | ||
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On August 25 2012 11:33 VisceraEyes wrote: Who had you down as confirmed townie? And what does the fact that you didn't jump on a mislynch have to do with anything? Talismania did. On August 25 2012 01:27 talismania wrote: =/ so it turns out I have to do a lot of work today too. brief thoguhts: 1) iamperfection possible scum. active lurked the entire lynch and near lynch time did nothing to push his strongest scum read BL. let others do it. then hopped off bl with little comment. 2) djasdflj possible scum. keen to latch onto wagons (me, lvdr, BL, obvious). overcomposed posts. mirrors posts of others in thread (palmar). keeps saying this is his first game ever on TL but knows too much about newbie games? I'm too lazy to actually see if he played them lol. 3) kville might just be a young kid and not scum. his delurk timing was pretty awesome just now thoguh. 4) lvdr I completely read that wrong. null. 5) shady is town. he cares and maintains his pressure. 6) VE is still probably town. | ||
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On August 25 2012 11:38 VisceraEyes wrote: For the record, scum WANT everyone pointing fingers at everyone. It's what they fucking THRIVE on. But yeah, whatever. Continue being a horrible horrible player. Yeah. This isn't going to help you out of the hole VE. | ||
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On August 25 2012 12:55 iamperfection wrote: We finish what we should have done yesterday. ## Vote Bluelightz He hasent changed anything and then attempts to make a case on the god damn troll? Screw that the chezinu case seems to be just a hollow attempt to feign scum hunting. It reads as simply going the safe avenue to me. BLuelightz will spill red blood. Vote for this guy. What is your PoV on the Lvdr lynch? | ||
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On August 25 2012 13:13 iamperfection wrote: What is your PoV on lynching bluelightz? To quote: BlueLightz and Marv -- Either they're both scum or they're both not. Basically I don't buy Marv's reasoning. Given that, he pulled a high risk maneuver for one reason: to save a scum BL. If Lvdr doesn't flip scum I recommend going after Marv and BL. This was from the post I put up right before daypost. My point of view on BL remains, I think there was more to Marv's save of BL than what he claimed to be the case. But the people who sheeped Marv--you and Lvdr--are much more guilty right now, hence focusing lynching D2 efforts on you two. I ask you again: what is your read on Lvdr. Don't make me ask a third time. And it's also pretty impolite to respond to someone's question with a question of your own. | ||
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On August 25 2012 13:37 iamperfection wrote: it takes all my will power to not respond to your "impolite" remark. I will keep it simple Lvdr went after VE for a good majority of the day. VE from early on was showing he was going to be active this game. I dont see scum going after ve it would be very hard to lynch him in my view. Therfore i read lvdr as town. ...Except BlueLightz went after Marv for a good majority of the day. Marv was just as active as VE. So by your logic how can you read BL as scum and Lvdr as town? Unless your read is based purely on BL fingering Chez. But given that, Lvdr has fingered 2 other people above Obvious with even less justification than BL on Chez. | ||
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And I want KVille to post something of substance or else I will suggest a vigi kill on him. | ||
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Okay. Vigi kill? | ||
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On August 25 2012 18:47 marvellosity wrote: Tell us now, are you going to actually do anything this game, or sit around making comments like a useless douchebag? I just need to know what to expect. My activity level is going to drop for the next couple of days. Bank holiday weekend in the UK. I'll be phone-checking/posting at regular intervals, so hopefully it'll be fine. VE and Shady are just as bad as each other for making connection theories pre-flip with me and Lvdr or Bluelightz, take your pick. Noob mistakes. Shady showing he's absolutely delusional by expecting to be hit last night as well. I'm going to have to take a closer look at Lvdr to see if I'm missing something. And we should still lynch the piss out of talis. Good lord has he done nothing and that's not his town meta. VE, you saw him play in Mad Men dude. This is not it. Marv, can you make cases based on something not meta? Also, what do you think about the cases already posted. | ||
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On August 25 2012 13:01 Bluelightz wrote: Out of the activity since D1 I think this stuck out to me the most. WIFOM I know, but this feels to me like a mafia trying to ride the pressure from yesterday into another mislynch. Chez has been worthless, I don't think he is a bad lynch. Therefore this reads to me to be a mafia trying to redirect scumhunting energies from a partner without committing so much he cant end up voting for chez later. More a gut read than anything else. In a weird way though it seems I might be a good lynch target because it might actually give the town some leads when I flip green. Still don't want to die, but if i'm so untrustworthy -- anything for the town Martyring yourself won't help. Especially since you were willing to vote Obvious for martyring himself. ## Vote Lvdr | ||
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On August 26 2012 06:53 marvellosity wrote: Lvdr, what's this Shady thing about?? We just ripped into each other hard in Newbie XXV. | ||
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On August 26 2012 08:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I can kill Chezinu too. For funsies. Are you scum or vig? B/c townies can't kill. | ||
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On August 26 2012 08:38 marvellosity wrote: Except this isn't that game. Make your f eelings clear this game please. Read talis and let me know what you think. I'm perfectly clear. It's Lvdr who's getting steamed. And you still haven't shared your thoughts on Lvdr. | ||
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On August 26 2012 14:33 Lvdr wrote: Hmm my read on chez is that he is engaged in the game. His voting patterns look pretty pro-town (extremely active at deadline, seems to be trying to find a good lynch even if he doesn't actually state reasoning) Unfortunately it is very hard (at least for me) to read a troll player. YourHarry's scum game was deadly effective, and it doesn't seem that a troll townie could be all that useful to the town. Not sure why he voted for me, but hopefully there is an explanation at the other end of the rainbow. That being said, I think a vigi shot could be a good call at this point. Does the town know who made the shot Regarding talis, I would give him no better than a null read. 2 points that stuck out to me. 1. The activity is quite low, and not particularly filled with content. I wouldn't call it downright scummy though. 2. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=25#497 This post latches on to a stretch of a case, complete agreement, no further points made, never revisited beyond his initial AHA moment. Maybe I've talked myself into a scum-read. I have to see how I feel after some-more activity. This point is a classic WIFOM slip. You think chez is engaged. But you don't know since he's trolly. You cite an anecdote from another player in another game who was trolly and flipped scum. You don't know why he voted for you and subtly criticize his troll logic for doing so. And then you finish that part by asking for a vigi shot... on who? Chez for being trolly? Or you? You don't even address any of the other cases on yourself except by saying that you've talked yourself into a scum-read. You just address Chez's case, and even then, only implicitly, because Chez's case is the weakest. On Talis: Both points you cite regarding Talis are clear scumtells. Low content, lurky behavior. But somehow not "downright scummy." Then you cite his largest post as an example of active scumming. Then you say he is a null read. What? This entire post is an attempt to look active without committing to reads. This is a huge scumtell. Town, if you still haven't made up your minds about Lvdr yet, the above should be a clear reason to vote for a lynch on him. | ||
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How far away is lynch? | ||
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On August 26 2012 23:00 Kville wrote: EWOP: code messed up first sentence of my post. All those quotes are refering to what VE said during the last hours of the lynch. KVille, I'm actually pretty intrigued by your VE read, since it matches some suspicions I've had myself. Let me ask you this: why would a scum VE want to protect BL, if BL was town? | ||
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Also, welcome back to the thread and thanks for participating. I'll try to be nicer in mafia now (sorry Lvdr.) | ||
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On August 27 2012 01:29 Lvdr wrote: Shady try being smarter. Sure. Anyhow, what do you think about KV's post on VE? | ||
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On August 27 2012 01:28 Kville wrote: That is what I'm trying to figure out as well. Are we sure BL is town at all? Maybe this is a slip by VE. Who knows. I have work and I will return on my break around 4 or 6 EDT US. Alright. I punctuated and cleaned up your post, btw. Regardless of whether BL is town or not, the point remains that VE posted in the final few hours of D1 like he had prior knowledge of BL's alignment, which is extremely strange. | ||
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Marv and VE were the most active posters by far D1. But now they've both disappeared. Marv has returned a couple of times to push his Talis theory, and VE hasn't posted in the thread at all. | ||
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On August 27 2012 05:35 Kville wrote: Well based on my post earlier ima start this Can't bold because on phone. may changed given proper information on another suspect. ##Vote VE Could you give your reasoning? And what do you think of the talis and Lvdr cases? Also I can't believe we allow Lvdr to get away with shit like this: On August 27 2012 05:25 Lvdr wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=52#1035 Also, noone is here so the point is moot lol. This, on top of his constant WIFOM and null reads on the entire town. He isn't acting like this Newbie XXV so why is he acting like this in Normal III? KVille, don't waste your vote on VE for tonight. Lvdr has demonstrated consistent scummy behavior throughout. Lynch him. | ||
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On August 27 2012 06:45 Djagulingu wrote: Lvdr lynch will give a big time info to us. If he flips scum, we're good. If he is townie, then we have all the reasons to suspect Chezinu. Please explain. | ||
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On August 27 2012 06:45 Djagulingu wrote: Lvdr lynch will give a big time info to us. If he flips scum, we're good. If he is townie, then we have all the reasons to suspect Chezinu. Seconded. Explain faster. Also, now that I think about it, explain this too: On August 24 2012 03:10 Djagulingu wrote: Well, at least I was right about what Palmar was trying to achieve with random-lynch bullshit. He's picking off the guys who got overly obsessed with it. While liking his read on Obvious, I'm also reading something stupid from Lvdr. He basically defended Shady for the whole day, doing his job for him, which brought 3 options in my mind: 1- Lvdr is a scumbag defending his fellow scumbag 2- Lvdr is a scumbag defending Shady to make him look like a scumbag, after seeing people thinking that Shady is a scumbag. 3- Lvdr is a townie and trying to defend someone who he sees as a townie. Then I see this: and think. Think about the reason why would one of the 2 scumbags defend the other while getting bussed by the scumbag he's defending. This kicks the option 1 out of the window and brings another option in its place: 4- Shady is a scumbag trying to pick on controversial townies one by one, trying to create wagons for them. This eliminates option 3 in my mind. Right now, all I know is they both can't be townies. Checking both filters, I see that Shady is reading the thread, producing cases, participating the scumhunt, trying to be helpful at the very least. His attention is pretty scattered though. On the other hand, I look at Lovedoc and see that all he ever posts is some fluff showing no intention to participate in scumhunting, microscopic to no attempt on reading players and sharing his leads, almost like he doesn't even need to read other guys in the thread. All I know is; scum does not have to read people because they know everything, town on the other hand has to. ##Unvote ##Vote: Lvdr Here you say that Lvdr and I can't both be townies. So if Lvdr flips scum, then shouldn't you be suspecting me, too? | ||
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## Unvote ## FoS DJ | ||
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In light of what DJ posted and did not respond to, I'm going to revise my read. Right now I think town's top priority is to lynch Djagulingu. He hasn't contributed much (but then again, not many have); moreover, his association reads on Lvdr, me and Chez don't make much sense. Also, I see him interacting in a pretty strange manner with Marv and a few other players. Lynching Dj would give us a lot of clarity on several more active posters without risking losing an active townie over it. ## Vote Djagulingu | ||
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VE you went from being hyperactive to being silent. What fucking gives? Same with you Marv. | ||
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On August 27 2012 10:14 s0Lstice wrote: That will be up to GMarshal, he'll be back fully tomorrow Acknowledged. Motherfuckerafds/ljkadsf'jawreoizx.,/zgd/kzdr | ||
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On August 27 2012 21:28 Djagulingu wrote: Like I said, all Chezinu has done for 2 days of game time is to join bandwagons while not making cases and participating discussions, which is also scum play. Day 1: He joins obvious bandwagon first, then unvotes, then joins back in. Day 2: I start by voting Lvdr, he follows after me; after I call him out and start getting bandwagoned, he joins my bandwagon. He at the very least has to provide reasons why he bandwagoned onto the people who he bandwagoned. Lvdr flipping town thus would 100% guarantee Chezinu being a scumbag who bandwagons townies down, Lvdr flipping scum would create confusions about him (whether he's a townie or a scum bussing Lvdr). In both cases, we would guarantee finding a scum by Lvdr lynch on day 2. THAT is my explanation about Chezinu. Lvdr was just my top scum read (or was he?). He was just posting scummy and also voting scummy. But now he's only #4 in my list though. Talis, iamperfection and Chezinu are above him. Why are you agreeing with Talis and iamperfection being more scummy than Chez now? | ||
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On August 28 2012 00:49 marvellosity wrote: Djagalang's explanation is here on this page, if you care to read it. My view is that a bunch of inexperienced townies leapt on a comment that wasn't a scumslip and started a bizarre wagon based off of it. Did the comment need explaining? Yes. Did the comment merit a bandwagon with hardly any time left in the day? Certainly not. On August 27 2012 15:20 Djagulingu wrote: EBWOP: I knew that Chezinu would bandwagon me if there was one, but I don't know why there was a bandwagon for me in the first place. I called him out and BAM 5 votes on me. Do you mind if I ask you the definition of "contribution" around this place sir? And for some reason I'm the first bandwagon you have pushed this hard in your mafia career I guess? You must be reading something good on me. Mind if you share them with the rest of the townfolks so that they can know why they are voting for me? Because your post seemed like a poor reasoning to me, I wouldn't vote for someone with that amount of info. Like I said, the kicker for me was the fact that you tried to do associative scumtells on Lvdr on two wildly different people between two days. My read is that you're a scum trying to set up for 2 straight mislynches in both instances. This ironically leads to me having less of a scum read on Lvdr until I lynch you. | ||
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On August 28 2012 01:45 marvellosity wrote: what gets me with VE is this: what's the scum motivation for being really active and then stopping playing at all? None, but there's no town motivation for it either. But when you look at how low-content a lot of his D1 posting was, you realize that overall he's spent 2 days lurking and giving bad reads on people (Obvious). If he had been really high-content D1 I wouldn't worry so much either, but now that he's gone from "Active lurking" to just plain lurking I have to FoS him. | ||
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On August 28 2012 01:54 marvellosity wrote: my memory is that he was somewhat neutral on Obvious and voted him to secure the lynch (his main read was Lvdr). shall check now No. He was trying to get people to vote Obvious over bluelightz for a while before the lynch. | ||
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At this point my only reason for keeping him alive is that he's posting and around. If he ever lurks or starts "Activtely lurking" I'd be perfectly fine dropping him for a lynch. | ||
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On August 28 2012 02:03 marvellosity wrote: I sheeped you for BL? what? You used BL's response to my case on him as your justification for voting him. | ||
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On August 28 2012 02:05 marvellosity wrote: That's not sheeping you, dearest. Then what is sheeping me? | ||
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On August 28 2012 02:14 Djagulingu wrote: What makes you think so? I put them in no particular order. I just think that this is the scum team. My best lynch candidate is Chezinu though, especially after seeing him bandwagon every single lynch candidate. It is not impossible for town Chezinu to misvote, I voted for Lvdr too, risking a misvote, but I had a plan with it. Either Chezinu is a sheep and doesn't have any plans whatsoever or he was bandwagoning Lvdr intentionally. The way he bandwagoned the town Obv and town me also supports my claims of Chezinu being a scumbag. The trap part wasn't intentional though, I accidentally trapped him and guess what. It is working. It is working damn so well. It pulled 3 in the price of 1. You, Chezinu and Talismania. All people who are not named iamperfection, Chezinu or Talismania; just look at the bandwagoning patterns of these guys. See how they bandwagoned into Obvious, see how some tried to bandwagon into Lvdr, see how they tried to bandwagon into me. Bluelightz dude, you're the MVP of this game, for last minute lynching Obvious. This post doesn't make sense. It's a WIFOM mindbomb. Dissecting, hold on. | ||
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On August 28 2012 03:08 marvellosity wrote: You're not this dumb, dear. Come on. Sheeping = following someone mindlessly. I made my own case on Bluelightz and I voted for him, something you hadn't done. My case was based on BL's total apathy to the lynch. The fact that the post that most of the read came from was in response to you is quite inconsequential (hence my massive confusion about you saying I sheeped you on BL). Ah, okay then. But you still led the charge on the Obvious mislynch. | ||
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On August 28 2012 04:14 Djagulingu wrote: Also: Checking if the guys are defending each other or not is another one of them scumtells me thinks. Despite claiming that Chezinu is a scumbag, this was somewhere in my mind. After calling Chezinu out, I got asked for explanations, I got bandwagoned, almost got lynched, but nobody tried to refute my case. Especially this poorly. The last of my hesitations on Chezinu and iamperfection are gone. I now think that they are scumbags. For good. Basically, if you flip green, I'll go with your some of your reads on IamP but not Chez. Both would then be guilty of sheeping rapid wagons on two consecutive townies, which is a scumtell, except in your case, IamP actually led the rapid wagon and Chez simply joined late after a perfectly legitimate excuse (hurricanes are serious business.) That being said, though, before you became lynch target #1 on D2, Lvdr was set to be lynched. If IamP was trying to do a quick wagon on you, logic suggests he was trying to protect Lvdr. Hence if you flip green, I urge cop check on Lvdr and lynch on IamP. | ||
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VE/Marv/DJ/BL vs IamP/Lvdr/Chez I think the scummiest player will be Lvdr. Then IamP and Chez also deserve scrutiny. Since VE and Marv are vets, they are also dangerous since it'll be hard to lynch them. If DJ or BL come up scummy then it should be easy to agree on a lynch, so they are the least dangerous. | ||
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On August 28 2012 08:39 marvellosity wrote: I think talis and Kville feel totally left out right now, Shady :< They're both unaligned lurkers who no one is defending. | ||
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On August 28 2012 08:41 marvellosity wrote: Does the fact that no-one is defending them make it more or less likely that they're scum? Less. Usually when a scum is about to get lynched (especially when there are still 3 scum in the game) there's quite a bit of resistance. | ||
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On August 28 2012 08:52 marvellosity wrote: no, no VE. Well I guess we have our answer. | ||
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On August 28 2012 12:19 Bluelightz wrote: I got... RBed! Someone step forward and claim RB N1, or else BL will need to be cop checked | ||
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On August 28 2012 12:18 iamperfection wrote: well might as well get this started ## Vote Djagulingu Nothing he says make sense to me. His arguments all rest on the idea that voting patterns is the be all end all of discussion. I find this to be unture and he is simply try to link players in order to get more mis lynches. The scum have perfect information when they make votes they can influence where they position themselves in regards to other players. Djagulingu arguments make no sense therfore i read this as a scum slip. DJ already explained his scum association theory pretty well. Do you have any additional arguments against him? | ||
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On August 28 2012 11:02 Kville wrote: Is it safe to accuse VE or his replacement becuase of this 'no kill'? or is scum just not paying attention? There are three scum. Doubt that one of them did not attempt a NK. | ||
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1) Scum did not use their KP. 2) Scum used their KP but JK jailed a scum. 3) Scum used their KP but JK jailed their target. 4) Scum used their KP but medic healed the target. I'm still kind of new at this, so I'm not going to hazard a guess as to which scenario is most likely. You should all form your own conclusions on this. However, I will say that today should be a day in which we center on 2 lynch candidates, at most, by the end of 24 hours. We need to avoid a repeat of the D2 no-lynch. My first case will be on IamP. I think he has actively lurked throughout D1, and also sheeped onto the Obv vote D1 and started the DJ train moving against Lvdr D2. I find both behaviors scummy. His continued attacks on DJ using the same line of logic that he used in last nights post further adds to my suspicion, since DJ already addressed the accusation. ##Vote IamPerfection I would also like to FoS Lvdr and Marv. I think Lvdr has not adequately addressed the suspicions re: sheeping the D1 mislynch, nor has he contributed as actively to scumhunting as he could be capable of (anyone who is interested may check out his Newbie XXV filter, for example.) As for Marv, something feels off about all his cases thus far. I can't really pin it down, but with every one of his cases, I get the feeling that he's arguing to our prejudices rather than basing his analysis on a read of the facts. I haven't yet seen him put out a case on someone where someone hasn't already accused his target before. I sense a bit of hesitancy, almost like a turtle afraid to stick its neck out. While mild, it's a scumtell nonetheless, and when coupled with his suspicious leading of the BL switching, makes me eager to pressure him. FoS Lvdr FoS Marvellosity | ||
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That's it? | ||
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On August 29 2012 02:48 talismania wrote: No response? I don't think I'm reading this wrong. dj claimed after being asked to explain the post that apparently got him in trouble that he partly intended for it to be part of a trap (hence, "bait"). But I don't know what the actual intended trap was, except that he claims later that the same post accidentally allowed him to detect bandwagonners since it created a bandwagon on him. None of it makes sense. I understand looking at people who bandwagon. But I don't understand how that post is possibly "baiting" a bandwagon if the person he was interested in (Chez) was already on that wagon. So you've got a scum read on DJ then? | ||
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On August 29 2012 03:28 Chezinu wrote: my list: 1.) marvellosity 2.) talismania 3.) Lvdr 8.) Djagulingu 10.) Kville 11.) Miltonkram so far I think almost everyone is comfortable saying bluelight is town? Add in that I believe shady is innocent along with iamperfection and you get the above list. So now, let everyone highlight 3 names on that list that they think are mafia like this: 1.) marvellosity 2.) talismania 3.) Lvdr 8.) Djagulingu 10.) Kville 11.) Miltonkram Why do you have a town read on IamP? | ||
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On August 29 2012 03:50 talismania wrote: I had one before and still do. I was hoping to get some reaction from him before jumping down his throat or anything though. Got it. Alright town it's getting close to that 24 hour deadline now. I'd like everyone to make cases on one or two people and post them before Midnight EDT (sometime in the next nine hours.) Lurkers will get priority on any lynch/vigi lists I draw up. Move it. | ||
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On August 29 2012 06:01 Chezinu wrote: Read my filter. If you really want reasons so bad, I will tell you. Palmar is known to be a great player as well as VE. They were really the only two people I focused on during day 1. If any one was going to get lynched, it was suspects chosen by one of the two. We end up trying to lynch lvdr first. He was one of my first suspects. Then I saw VE defending him and accused VE. Palmar comes into the thread suspecting obvious. Knowing Palmar had a talent of finding scum I voted obvious along with him. I had suspicions at the time that mafia was trying to get a no lynch because the votes were so spread out. So, I tried to get people to consolidate their vote. No one was voting obvious, so I think I might have switch to lvdr after that - I don't fully recall, you can check if you want. I know I was busy in RL at the time and disappeared for a while. When I came back somehow everyone was voting bluelight - I don't recall the reason. To aviod a no lynch, I jumped on board. Then blue was acting as if he was already dead. I remember writing in the thread that I thought it wasn't insta lynch - which I ended up being right. Blue has an ephany and realizes that he wasn't dead and posts a document calling almost everyone town. It was funny and we all laughed. Then we realized that mafia would never let one of their own members do something so foolish. So we decided to switch after the realization that everyone was actively lurking (we could see how many people viewed the document). So we jumped on to Palmar's suspect, Obvious. Cause Palmar had the best chance of catching scum. Unfortunately, obvious was town. Then mafia killed Palmar, who was the most towniest of all of us. It reminded me of when WBG died in my last game (however this reference is meaningless this game cause VE is no longer playing and no one will get my references), Now for Day 2...day 2 is kind of a blurr to me. I do remember voting lvdr to finally try to get him to flip. I come back at the end of the day and no one was voting for lvdr. However there was 3 votes on you (Dj), two of which were Iamperfection and Shady. Two people I trust to be town - they both have defended me. Mafia would never defend a troll like me. Most mafia would actually do the opposite and try and get me lynched. From experience, I am inclined to trust them. There happy, I responded to you! Holy crap the troll actually responded decently. | ||
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On August 29 2012 07:45 Miltonkram wrote: Hey all, I've been busy ever since I replaced in and I'll be leaving for work in a few minutes. Once I get back from work tonight I'll do my best to get caught up on the game and give you guys my reads. With that I'll leave you with my standard intro. First things first, here is a list of games I've played in and links to my filters from those games. I start all my games with a list like this because it helps me improve. If I'm scum, I have to avoid playing closely to my scum meta. If I'm town, I put pressure on myself to make good reads. The list is spoilered so as not to take up space. + Show Spoiler + NMM XIV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337671&user=240210 I was a Mafia Goon in this game. NMM XV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340298&user=240210 I was a Vanilla Townie in this game. NMM XVII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344270&user=240210 I was a Mafia Goon in this game. NMM XVIII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345447&user=240210 I replaced into this game. I was a Vanilla Townie. NMM XIX: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856&user=240210 I replaced into this game. I was a Vanilla Townie. I Can't Believe It's Not Themed MiniMafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147&user=240210 I was a Vanilla Townie in this game. What are your reads? | ||
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On August 29 2012 08:18 Lvdr wrote: I'm back. I was focusing on my other game. Still read along here, but didn't have much jump out at me. Going to do a close reading. Any reads? | ||
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Regarding talis, I would give him no better than a null read. 2 points that stuck out to me. 1. The activity is quite low, and not particularly filled with content. I wouldn't call it downright scummy though. 2. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=25#497 This post latches on to a stretch of a case, complete agreement, no further points made, never revisited beyond his initial AHA moment. Also, your play in this game is completely different from your town play in XXV. Part of the reason I quit XXV was so that I could clearly call everyone's attention here to your confirmed town play there versus your play here. I would encourage everyone who is still on the fence about Lvdr to see his play there versus his play here: Lvdr's filter from this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836&user=278119 Lvdr's filter from XXV, where he was confirmed town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361579&user=278119 Look at how much more engaged Lvdr is when he plays town--look at how much he sticks around at lynch time and tries to drive a read home rather than going AFK and saying he has to eat, then sheeping other players. Anyhow, at this point I think lynching him will give us more of a read on a bunch of other players too. I'm going to switch things around. ## Unvote ## Vote Lvdr ## FoS IamP ## FoS Marv I think he is our best D2 lynch candidate. I will be around tomorrow prior to 2-3 hours prior to lynch time to round up votes. | ||
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On August 29 2012 10:14 marvellosity wrote: Some of this case is actually pretty good. As for the bold, I went digging and found the following. This is around the Day 1 lynch deadline: Berating town for being afk. Then on Day 2, we have instead: followed by a post a few minutes after. Then not a peep from him in the next 6 or so hours coming up to lynch time. My previous read on him had related to how he was engaged and participating with town (check my filter) and firstly this hasn't been the case recently, and secondly the fairly glaring contradiction above, is making me reconsider. I'm quite conflicted, because quite a lot of his early play was pretty townie. As town knows I didn't think at all his scumslip was a scumslip, and he's been present and active at least some of the time, compared to... ...talis, who still needs to die die die. He's useless and he's never useless as town. He was totally absent for both lynches and seemingly doesn't give a shit who gets lynched. I outlined the case against iamperfection earlier in the day. What makes me doubt my read is this response to me on the DJ-lingu issue: Usually scum stick to their guns and don't back down with humility like that. It very much reminds me of Mattchew in Magic Mini backing down and voting for my scumread there (I can dig it out if people really want). We should really be lynching talismania today. I can't imagine a scenario where he's town. Nothing he's done tells me he might be town. ##Vote: talismania Here's the thing though--going purely off someone's meta to generate a read on them (when they've been lurky/afk otherwise) is a poor substitute for scumhunting. I trust you probably know that better than I do. Also, what Talis has posted is this: On August 29 2012 05:47 talismania wrote: ok dj I understand what you're trying to say but it doesn't hang together. This is the post that you said later was intended half as bait: Your claimed trap was to push a lynch on lvdr, who you supposedly think might be scum. if he is, great, if he isn't maybe you can catch people bandwagoning. So far... ok. But at the time you made that post, you already had two people voting behind you. So the actual trap part wasn't this post, it was the part where you voted lvdr. This doesn't contribute to the supposed trap. Instead it sounds like what it probably is: lynch lvdr, if he flips town, lynch chez. In essence, justifying two days of votes at once, which smells like scum. That isn't bait for anything, and calling it that is a clumsy way to recast your actions. This, after a long discussion with DJ that substantially helped my own read on the whole DJ/Chez/IamP clusterfuck. I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt to his IRL commitments keeping his activity down. As such I think you should join me in voting Lvdr. | ||
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On August 29 2012 10:53 marvellosity wrote: Feigning some contribution day 3 does not mean he's town. This is my 6th? (maybe 7th) game with talis, so I've probably played with him more than he's played with anyone else on TL Mafia. When I subbed into Mad Men Day 3, I hadn't really read the thread properly yet, but: and then I didn't wanna lynch him even though he had a red-check on him (he turned out miller). I know a town talis when I see one. The thing is the meta points to him being scum, but in addition he's done jack shit this game. His vote was useless and abandoned day 1, day 2 he only turned up right at the end to sheep. That's scummy play all on its own. How do you know he's only feigning contribution or not? Instead of looking to quantity, look to quality. Talis' posts really forced Chez and IamP to go straight with their trap/baiting claims on each other. That's very helpful. Look at Lvdr now. Can you honestly say the same? | ||
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On August 29 2012 11:05 marvellosity wrote: Yes, I would say overall Lvdr has been more proactive and helpful. At least he cared enough to participate in the day 1 lynch. He may be scum, but talis is scum. Lvdr participated in the D1 lynch, up until BL was about to go, then when the switch happened, he switched within 1 minute of you but did not even bother explaining his choice (his read on Obvious was null until then.) Then he proceeded actively lurk (making posts about how he was eating) up until Obvious returned to the thread, whereby he said that Obvious' expression of anger cemented his previously non-existent scumread. Talis is quiet, but Lvdr is scum. | ||
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On August 29 2012 11:11 marvellosity wrote: I think we could go tit for tat all day here. I think the town needs more contribution than just us two talking. Well us talking isn't going to hurt the effort to get more people into the conversation. | ||
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On August 29 2012 03:50 talismania wrote: I had one before and still do. I was hoping to get some reaction from him before jumping down his throat or anything though. Talis, if you're still in the thread, could you give us a clear read on Lvdr? | ||
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On August 29 2012 12:13 Kville wrote: Just for the sake of having some progress this day period I'll go for ldvr but if this kidflips town dj is done day 4. ##Vote ldvr KVille what are your other reads? Could you elaborate on why DJ needs to be gone D4? | ||
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Note also that this time the sheeping on Marv happened with a different candidate as well. First it was Obvious, now it's Talis--why? | ||
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On August 29 2012 13:25 iamperfection wrote: Tails said he wouldnt be as active this is a completetly diffrent then his actvity levels in the mad men game. I dont understand So he apologizes for being afk so much but then does this Why not warn us that he is going camping? I think its because he full of shit ## Vote talismania Players go AFK etc. for a myriad of reasons. Making a vote against them on that sole basis is usually sub-optimal. You're already on multiple FoS lists and here, again, you sheep Marv with poor reasoning. This is a warning to post better. | ||
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On August 29 2012 08:18 Lvdr wrote: I'm back. I was focusing on my other game. Still read along here, but didn't have much jump out at me. Going to do a close reading. He says he'll do a close reading, then comes back with this: On August 29 2012 14:08 Lvdr wrote: I like my previous read on talis being scum. Also, I disappeared mainly because (as you noted) I was extremely involved in the other game, esp coming down to lynch deadlines, and I was unable to deal with shady because I was mad at him (oops). The lack of activity makes me really uncomfortable. Also, it may be a cross game gambit, but Shady's actions here seem similar to those in the other game (where he flipped scum). I keep getting a "He is either really bad town or clumsy scum" read across the two games. I would say lets just lynch him, but I don't think thats actually good play. Hence, ##vote:Talismania As noted above, he's sheeping Marv and IamP here when he's already done that with the Obvious lynch. Moreover, the results of his reading simply state that I like my previous read on talis being scum. And Also, it may be a cross game gambit, but Shady's actions here seem similar to those in the other game (where he flipped scum). Other than me and Talis, he has no results. At all. No comment on the whole IamP/Chez/DJ discussion which has occupied most of the last three pages, no mention of his thoughts on the D2 no-lynch at all. No analysis of voting patterns or anything specific which leads to his scumreads on me or Talis; instead, we just get a general meta read and reiteration of prior points on Talis. Except: this is his prior read on Talis: Regarding talis, I would give him no better than a null read. 2 points that stuck out to me. 1. The activity is quite low, and not particularly filled with content. I wouldn't call it downright scummy though. 2. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=25#497 This post latches on to a stretch of a case, complete agreement, no further points made, never revisited beyond his initial AHA moment. Which he has never elaborated upon. Indeed, his vote on Talis D2 said this: ##Vote: Talismania Let's see what happens. So Lvdr at this point has offered the town no reads at all since D1, while claiming to have scumreads on 2 people. In addition he's sheeping Marv yet again and making excuses for his lurky behavior when he clearly had a much higher activity level in the game where he was town. Basically, at this point, he has a giant scum sign hanging above his head. This, on top of the fact that lynching him will provide town with a plethora of information about other players as well. In case you guys haven't done it yet, Vote Lvdr or else I will call my friend to find your IP address and DDOS you back to the stone age. | ||
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On August 29 2012 16:08 Djagulingu wrote: EBWOP: He's providing no content, voting uselessly on day 1 and sheeping on me on day 2, not providing reasons why he voted for these people either. His only serious attempts over starting a discussion is after I called him out along with Chezinu and iamperfection, against me. Now consider you and me, trying to generate discussion here, trying to find scumbags and shit, trying to see reasons why people are doing some stuff or why are people avoiding to do some stuff, why we suspect the people we're voting, interrogating each other from time to time too, just to be sure about one another. And now, consider talismania and chezinu. The people who never generate discussion, provide either no reasons or poor reasons over what they do, latch onto lynch candidates or voting uselessly, stay afk most of the time, troll for the rest. And you say that I'm sheeping Marv with poor reasoning? Why completely ignore Lvdr then? Both Talis and Chez have made a bunch more content over the past 48 hours than Lvdr has, yet you completely ignore him in your post. | ||
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On August 29 2012 16:01 Djagulingu wrote: Because my vote itself doesn't commence a majority lynch. Like I said before, Chezinu is my primary target because he's a) Scumbag (minimum of 95%) b) A townie that even scumbags will grief over his death. (5% tops) But people for some reason aren't voting for him and it's more probable that Lvdr can result in a mislynch than talismania. How do you know that Talis is more of a scumbag than Lvdr? | ||
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On August 29 2012 16:08 Djagulingu wrote: EBWOP: He's providing no content, voting uselessly on day 1 and sheeping on me on day 2, not providing reasons why he voted for these people either. His only serious attempts over starting a discussion is after I called him out along with Chezinu and iamperfection, against me. Now consider you and me, trying to generate discussion here, trying to find scumbags and shit, trying to see reasons why people are doing some stuff or why are people avoiding to do some stuff, why we suspect the people we're voting, interrogating each other from time to time too, just to be sure about one another. And now, consider talismania and chezinu. The people who never generate discussion, provide either no reasons or poor reasons over what they do, latch onto lynch candidates or voting uselessly, stay afk most of the time, troll for the rest. And you say that I'm sheeping Marv with poor reasoning? I quoted IamP. Not sure why you think that post is directed at you. | ||
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On August 29 2012 16:02 Miltonkram wrote: Finally got home from work. Sorry I haven't been active for much of the day. I'm going to avoid going to sleep tonight until I feel I have a decent handle on the game. I'm still catching up on everything, but it shouldn't be too much longer until I'm up to speed. Check out the Lvdr case. Also check out Talis/Chez/IamP filter for their mutual discussion. | ||
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On August 29 2012 16:17 Djagulingu wrote: Try your best son. On Lvdr though, he's my suspect #4. Being #4 on my list, he still has 70-30 odds of being a scumbag. My reasons are slightly different though, he's taking advantage from my case over Chezinu/talis/iamp trio that I used him for and using this advantage into laying low for a bit. I don't like that. Except he's laid low ever since the D1 mislynch. And how is him using your case on Chez/talis/IamP turn into an advantage that lets him lay low for a bit? | ||
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On August 29 2012 16:25 Djagulingu wrote: He sees that he's currently out of the spotlight and thinks that we now see him as a townie (at least me) but still afraid to come into the discussion because he doesn't want back in. I don't like that. Why would a townie be afraid of the spotlight in the first place? Got it. And none of my other tells on him stick? So Lvdr at this point has offered the town no reads at all since D1, while claiming to have scumreads on 2 people. In addition he's sheeping Marv yet again and making excuses for his lurky behavior when he clearly had a much higher activity level in the game where he was town. | ||
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On August 29 2012 16:41 Djagulingu wrote: I don't know which one is worse. The way he's playing on day 3 or this being actually a progress. He provided zero reads (except for talismania, if you call that a read that is) until the end of day 2, now comes up with the read on talismania. There is something wrong with him but I don't know what. So even with all that you're still reading him as less scummy than Talis, who has actually stepped up tremendously in posting? I mean, Talis even somehow got Chez to stop trolling all of us. That's crazy. Also, I find it odd how you could call for a Talis/Chez/IamP scumteam when the three were basically on the verge of FoSing each other earlier today. It reminded me of the ending scene from the Good the Bad and the Ugly in there for a while. | ||
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On August 29 2012 16:55 Djagulingu wrote: It was at least 70% my effort that helped Chez to stop with the trolling bullshit of him (that is if he actually stopped). And this shit reminds me of the Reservoir Dogs more than the Good the Bad and the Ugly. Up until I called them out, nobody was doing nothing, now they felt their asses are on fire and they are all trying to find who was the leak. Fair enough. But is that behavior worth a vote? I mean, generally scum don't alter their behavior in response to a townread, only to votes, yet they all changed their behavior before you even voted them. | ||
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On August 29 2012 17:10 Djagulingu wrote: EBWOP: At least that's what I'm thinking now.ç Here's the problem with your reasoning though: I don't see the links between them that you do. If one of them flips scum or flips town, we may end up ascribing them all false innocence or false guilt. I want to consider them all on a one-by-one basis. | ||
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Depending on how Lvdr flips, we can gain a lot of credibility into VE/Milton AND IamP as well. | ||
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On August 29 2012 19:31 marvellosity wrote: This is meaningless twaddle. Who gives a flying shit about the credibility of a bunch of players? The only thing that matters is who is likeliest to flip scum. The fact that you're suggesting otherwise is horrible. Wrong word choice there. Should read: We can gain a lot of insight into VE/Milton AND IamP as well. | ||
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On August 29 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote: I don't know, talis's post's seem's townie compared to his scum game in Pick Your Poison, granted in PYP he was active, but I dunno, I'll vote talis before I sleep though to consolidate (as I won't be there for the deadline, school started). Bluelightz this is WIFOMy and weak, and a complete sheeping justification for a vote on Talis. FoS Bluelightz | ||
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On August 29 2012 20:44 Miltonkram wrote: Ok, having caught up on the thread a few things have jumped out to me. Firstly, because of general inactivity and the accusations that have been flying every which way between the active posters in the thread I think the correct play for scum has been to lay low. I'm looking at several players who have avoided putting out a lot of content, specifically Chezinu, Talismania, iamperfection, and KVille. At this moment I'd be fine with a lynch on any of them, but especially Chezinu. I realize he plays trolly, but he hasn't contributed much more than placeholder votes at the end of the days. This is bullshit. Feel free to hoist him up and I'll make sure to dance on his grave. It seems like there is a decent amount of traction towards a talismania lynch. While my gut prefers a Chezinu lynch, I can happily get behind this lynch as well. Having played with talis in the past, I think he's been inactive/unhelpful enough to warrant a lynch. I'm pretty tired and catching up on the thread while I probably should have been sleeping has left my brain fried. I'll hopefully get some more time when I wake up to put together more complete cases. Night everybody. How can you ignore Lvdr's scummy play thus far? Read the case on him, and then read his filter. | ||
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On August 29 2012 20:55 marvellosity wrote: To the bold, this could well be a good shout. Lvdr, do you have a 2nd read behind talis? Thanks for drawing attention to this. Marv, do you have 2nd and 3rd reads behind talis? | ||
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On August 30 2012 00:49 Chezinu wrote: I can't get over the fact how I find it strange that town can never lynch lvdr. Everytime lvdr has the lead, people just jump to another candidate. Anyone else noticing this? This. On Lvdr on D2, the people who jumped were me and you. The person who led the DJ lynch train was IamP. So the only thing we have to blame is ourselves. Today, we should stick to the Lvdr lynch. | ||
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On August 30 2012 01:03 Chezinu wrote: I think the mafia are trying to lure me by providing a name that was on my list. So why do you think Lvdr is scummy? | ||
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On August 30 2012 01:30 Chezinu wrote: These two posts say about the same thing. Very similiar in content. But only those who understand the chez troll can read it. It's very useful to talk to selected individuals. Others won't even read your posts. Chez, here's the thing though. When you make a post like that and then vote for someone, you're not trying to convince other people of the correctness of your vote. When town votes for someone, town wants other people to follow their vote as well. Town votes in good faith. Scum doesn't. Scum wants the results of their votes to ideally never see the light of day, because that would mean either bussing or mislynching. So scum doesn't want to persuade other people to vote for the people they do. Hence when you vote for someone and then make troll posts to justify the vote, people view you as scum. I hope you understand that. | ||
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On August 30 2012 01:30 Chezinu wrote: These two posts say about the same thing. Very similiar in content. But only those who understand the chez troll can read it. It's very useful to talk to selected individuals. Others won't even read your posts. Chez, I'm referring to posts like this. | ||
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On August 30 2012 02:38 Shady Sands wrote: Chez, I'm referring to posts like this. Posts like this get you nowhere closer to the goal which you logically should have, building up enough traction to get Lvdr lynched. | ||
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On August 30 2012 02:42 Chezinu wrote: Winning is not the only objective of playing mafia. Having fun is a crucial part of the game. Of course, I will try and withhold having too much fun if it will hurt the town. But I don't see how making that post hurts the town. Posts like that don't hurt the town, but they don't help the town either. The issue is if you're just playing to have fun, it makes it impossible to develop good reads on you. That's what ends up hurting town. Understand? | ||
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On August 29 2012 05:47 talismania wrote: ok dj I understand what you're trying to say but it doesn't hang together. This is the post that you said later was intended half as bait: Your claimed trap was to push a lynch on lvdr, who you supposedly think might be scum. if he is, great, if he isn't maybe you can catch people bandwagoning. So far... ok. But at the time you made that post, you already had two people voting behind you. So the actual trap part wasn't this post, it was the part where you voted lvdr. This doesn't contribute to the supposed trap. Instead it sounds like what it probably is: lynch lvdr, if he flips town, lynch chez. In essence, justifying two days of votes at once, which smells like scum. That isn't bait for anything, and calling it that is a clumsy way to recast your actions. Talis, where are you? Your neck is on the chopping block. You should be in here defending yourself. | ||
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On August 30 2012 00:06 Bluelightz wrote: Well, I have an odd feeling that you might be scum, and that your pushing for the easy lynch today, and I think talis is town, from his reasoning on not being active. What the heck? You think Talis is town. Then you say that you'll vote on him to consolidate. That's a blatant sheep vote and you know it. You've only contributed one decent case on Chez so far and that's it. FoS Bluelightz | ||
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Everyone please read his filter and also read the below case. Thank you. On August 29 2012 16:06 Shady Sands wrote: More points on Lvdr: He says he'll do a close reading, then comes back with this: As noted above, he's sheeping Marv and IamP here when he's already done that with the Obvious lynch. Moreover, the results of his reading simply state that And Other than me and Talis, he has no results. At all. No comment on the whole IamP/Chez/DJ discussion which has occupied most of the last three pages, no mention of his thoughts on the D2 no-lynch at all. No analysis of voting patterns or anything specific which leads to his scumreads on me or Talis; instead, we just get a general meta read and reiteration of prior points on Talis. Except: this is his prior read on Talis: Which he has never elaborated upon. Indeed, his vote on Talis D2 said this: So Lvdr at this point has offered the town no reads at all since D1, while claiming to have scumreads on 2 people. In addition he's sheeping Marv yet again and making excuses for his lurky behavior when he clearly had a much higher activity level in the game where he was town. Basically, at this point, he has a giant scum sign hanging above his head. This, on top of the fact that lynching him will provide town with a plethora of information about other players as well. In case you guys haven't done it yet, Vote Lvdr or else I will call my friend to find your IP address and DDOS you back to the stone age. | ||
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On August 30 2012 04:03 Miltonkram wrote: @ Shady I'll look closer at Lvdr. I'm at work so it'll probably take me a while. What's your opinion towards Chez? I don't like the idea of him being around during LYLO because his filter is pretty shit. I'll do my best to comment, answer questions, and build towards a lynch today, but once again I'm at work so it will be difficult for me to get in here. My opinion toward Chez is just like yours. My response is a bit different though. I want to give him a chance to contribute. If he still doesn't, then we lynch him after Lvdr. | ||
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On August 30 2012 04:03 Miltonkram wrote: @ Shady I'll look closer at Lvdr. I'm at work so it'll probably take me a while. What's your opinion towards Chez? I don't like the idea of him being around during LYLO because his filter is pretty shit. I'll do my best to comment, answer questions, and build towards a lynch today, but once again I'm at work so it will be difficult for me to get in here. Also, Chez is not a realistic wagon today. It's coming down to Lvdr or Talismania. | ||
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iamperfection (0): Chezinu (1): Bluelightz Djagulingu (0): Lvdr (3): Chezinu Shady Sands Kville Talismania talismania (4): marvellosity iamperfection Lvdr Djagulingu Not Voting Miltonkram Bluelightz, Milton--you guys hold the hammer. BL if you end up last minute sheeping the vote with little to no explanation, then you will look very scummy no matter what the result of the lynch. Get in here. | ||
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iamperfection (0): Chezinu (1): Bluelightz Djagulingu (0): Lvdr (4): Chezinu Shady Sands Kville Talismania talismania (4): marvellosity iamperfection Lvdr Djagulingu Not Voting Miltonkram Bluelightz, Milton--you guys hold the hammer. BL if you end up last minute sheeping the vote with little to no explanation, then you will look very scummy no matter what the result of the lynch. Get in here. | ||
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On August 30 2012 04:42 talismania wrote: I thoguht lvdr legitimately slipped d1 but then after re-reading it I decided I was probably wrong about that part. but then this from today is kinda funny: classic scum forgetting what he wrote earlier. ##vote:lvdr Yep. Town, what Talis just pointed out is a fairly open scumslip. Everyone pile in. | ||
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On August 30 2012 04:56 marvellosity wrote: Apathy that only happens when talis is not town. talis hates scum and loves playing town. I'd like to see him even try to deny this, and try to explain this away. These are very spurious tells you're going off of. Basically your whole case on Talis boils down to him not knowing his own meta. If Talis knew his town meta was "enthusiastic+busy", why would he even make posts which make him seem apathetic? Only a town Talis would have an excuse to excuse his own lurky play. | ||
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On August 30 2012 05:05 marvellosity wrote: talis' defence is "i don't give a shit about this game" brilliant. Lynch this guy. And Lvdr's defence is "when I'm town, I play like a scum". On August 30 2012 05:06 Lvdr wrote: Guys I always seem to have these 'scumslips' as town. I can be too offhand in assuming people know what I mean, which gets me into trouble. My prior read was slight scummy on talis. Coming back later I was reconfirming as a stronger read. Let's make sure we have a lynch today though, even if its me. 2 no lynches would be pretty bad... Lvdr your read on Talis was null. When you voted Talis you said "let's see what happens" not "I think we got a scum." Then you conflate your original read into "I have a scum read on Talis". | ||
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On August 30 2012 05:04 marvellosity wrote: Shady you're so dumb sometimes Jeez Marv. I just posted my interpretation of Talis' actions. Why don't you post your interpretation of how Lvdr could forget his own fucking read on someone? | ||
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iamperfection (0): Chezinu (1): Bluelightz Djagulingu (0): Lvdr (5): Chezinu Shady Sands Kville Talismania Djagulingu talismania (3): marvellosity iamperfection Lvdr Not Voting Miltonkram | ||
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On August 30 2012 05:21 Lvdr wrote: Talis you just seem to be trying to undermine marv without actually providing any evidence. Looks like pretty scummy omgus to me. Right after saying this? On August 30 2012 05:17 Lvdr wrote: Marv, do you think shady is intentionally misinterpreting my posts, and do you find that scummy? I mentioned earlier that shady already tried a 'troll-lvdr' strategy as scum, and that I thought it was possible he was doing it in this game too. | ||
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On August 30 2012 05:25 iamperfection wrote: he dosent like you its kind of obvious. I mean he calls out one person for undermining with OMGUS about 3 minutes after he just did it himself. Huh? | ||
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On August 30 2012 05:23 iamperfection wrote: ya cause scum would put all their eggs in one basket. If it's prevent a lynch of one of their own, why wouldn't they? Up until DJ switched, there would be no reason to bus a scum Lvdr. | ||
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On August 30 2012 05:38 Lvdr wrote: ##vote:lvdr Rofl, self-hammer. | ||
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iamperfection (0): Chezinu (1): Bluelightz Djagulingu (0): Lvdr (6): Chezinu Shady Sands Kville Talismania Djagulingu Lvdr talismania (2): marvellosity iamperfection Not Voting Miltonkram | ||
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iamperfection (0): Chezinu (1): Bluelightz Djagulingu (0): Lvdr (5): Chezinu Shady Sands Kville Talismania Djagulingu talismania (3): marvellosity iamperfection Lvdr Not Voting Miltonkram No one is set to be lynched. Nightpost in 6h 15m. | ||
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On August 30 2012 05:42 Lvdr wrote: That was terrible math, please disregard. 12-2-me-2nk leaves 7! Much better, but still 4 to 3 which is precarious. I don't get your math here. How is that much better if it's 4-3 LYLO as opposed to 5-3 MYLO? | ||
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On August 30 2012 05:55 Lvdr wrote: The first math was just wrong. How is 4-3 LYLO better than 5-3 MYLO? You said it was "much better". | ||
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IamP, how does Lvdr's recent posting behavior affect your read of him? I want you to post a reply before Milton or BL replies in the thread. I want you to reply before you know whether Lvdr is hammered or not. | ||
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On August 30 2012 06:07 iamperfection wrote: i think he would have run away by now if he was scum. So you have a townread on him? | ||
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On August 30 2012 06:16 Lvdr wrote: And dont worry im on a long car ride with my phone. I got all day. What does this have to do with anything? | ||
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On August 30 2012 06:26 marvellosity wrote: why is Bluelightz vote parked fucking uselessly? Because he's lurking even harder than Talis is? | ||
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On August 30 2012 06:28 marvellosity wrote: he said he'd move his vote before bed and now he's disappeared (presuming he's in bed by now as he's from the east i think) He said he's at school right now, and he'll move his vote to talis to consolidate before he falls asleep (which will be later tonight if he's in East.) | ||
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On August 30 2012 06:09 iamperfection wrote: and dont do that bs what if i had gone afk. Dont put time constraits in forum mafia. Got it. I'll try not to do that in the future. | ||
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On August 30 2012 08:31 Miltonkram wrote: I'll be back from work in a little over an hour. Unfortunately I've only been able to give the Lvdr situation a cursory glance and nothing too in depth. From what I've seen the Lvdr case is solid though. Reviewing talismania's play I'm inclined to believe he's actually busy. It's frustrating that we've had so many players with so little content, but if I am actually voting for who I think is scum, I have to go with Lvdr YES. Hammer time on Lvdr. | ||
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On August 30 2012 08:37 marvellosity wrote: "I'd rather spend time with my girlfriend at home" (ergo, not take even fifteen minutes to look at the thread) sounds like 'he's actually busy' and cares? right-o then. Marv, what do you think of the recent train of posts from Lvdr? | ||
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On August 30 2012 08:53 iamperfection wrote: more lvdr talk unitll the last second On August 30 2012 09:04 iamperfection wrote: 2 hours left anyone having second thoughts? Why protect/help Lvdr so much right after Milton drops the hammer? | ||
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On August 30 2012 10:06 Lvdr wrote: @shady: I think personal feelings have influenced your read on me, and I ask you to compare your case in this game, to the one you made on me as scum in our last game. Don't they seem very similar? As scum you jumped on every perceived mistake I made in order to make a contrived case. I thinking you're doing the same thing here. If you're really town, instead of playing another bad game as scum, you can start the wagon back onto talis. If I am actually scum, I can be lynched later. No one is jumping on every mistake, Lvdr. Here is why I'm voting against you: So Lvdr at this point has offered the town no reads at all since D1, while claiming to have scumreads on 2 people. In addition he's sheeping Marv yet again and making excuses for his lurky behavior when he clearly had a much higher activity level in the game where he was town. It's because: [list] [*]Your Talis read is basically null and you never changed it prior to voting him. Hence no read there, yet you wound up voting him [*]You had no reads on anyone except on VE all through D1, which never really got anywhere. You wound up sheeping to Obvious [*]Somehow you loudly claim you had scumreads on multiple people, but a check of your filter doesn't find them there (until Milton hammered you, lol.) [*]Your behavior was much, much higher in the game where you were town. You put out 4 cases in the span of 1 day there, and actively led a last minute lynch wagon on a single person. You also proceeded to tunnel that person across 2 whole in-game days to secure a lynch there. By contrast, in this game, you pushed a weak case on VE, then sheeped Marv, then pushed a weak case on Talis, after sheeping Marv, then revoted Talis once there was a no-lynch on the basis of your non-existent prior scum read on him. No one is nit-picking anything here, Lvdr. These are holes big enough to drive a truck through, and when added together they form a damning picture of guilt. | ||
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It's because:
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On August 30 2012 10:11 iamperfection wrote: and when did milton drop the hammer? i didnt see no vote or is he not allowed to change his mind in your fucking view. I read Milton's post as a pretty clear hammer. He said he didn't read Talis as scum, just busy, and read Lvdr as scum. Those are the only two feasible votes he could cast (given that its 7 townies and 6 required for lynch). | ||
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Thank goodness we're finally going to get someone lynched. | ||
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On August 30 2012 10:31 Miltonkram wrote: So this is where we all voteswitch at marvelbabe's behest, right? I'm not going to let that happen. I'll DDOS his whole neighborhood if I have to. | ||
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On August 30 2012 10:36 Lvdr wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=26#509 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=26#518 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=32#623 Based on a contrived 'scumslip' you 'Had me cold' http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=48#956 After obvious wagon you decide that I am definitely scum based on trying to get a no-lynch? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=52#1021 You vote me for 'martying myself' http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=52#1036 You decide my case on talis is ALSO a scumslip because I am not 100% positive. I'm gonna stop there in your filter. There are 4 OMGWTFBBQ scumslips that you accuse me of, all of which are contrived. I hope you're scum, because this is terrible town play. Are they really that contrived? D1 VE pushed a pretty fast case on you. I ended up backing away from that because it wasn't comprehensive enough. I said "we had him cold" not "I had him cold"; I was confused as to why VE (who was the town leader at the time) had dropped you after nailing you the day prior. After the obvious wagon that was the read on the situation. Otherwise your sheeping vote makes no sense. Town Lvdr would not sheep off BL and onto Obvious that quickly and with no explanation, especially when you didn't have a read on Obvious before. Then you martyr yourself... ironic then because you voted Obvious, who was martyring himself, and also ironic now, because you are vigorously defending yourself to town rather than martyring yourself which you said you would do. Finally, on your Talis case, you said you had a null read on him. Then you said maybe that was a scumread. Then you voted for him and said that you wanted to see what happens. Then when he didn't get lynched, you re-voted him and didn't say "oh my read on Talis has changed to a scum read", but rather said "I want to reaffirm my previous scumread" which is a blatant lie since you never had a firm scumread on Talis to begin with. This would be fine if you were doing a lot of scumhunting already, but you weren't, so this seemed like an attempt by yourself to falsely claim you were. After you did that, I dug through your filter, and the rest, as we will all soon say, is history. | ||
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On August 30 2012 10:38 Lvdr wrote: More and more I'm thinking a vigi shot on Shady could be a really good play for the town. It will become clear when I flip green. Lvdr, if you flip green, town is in 4-3 LYLO. How you think a vigi shot on a possible townie in LYLO is a good idea is beyond me. But then again, if you're scum, you wouldn't really think about that now, would you? | ||
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First, I apologize to everyone here (and Lvdr) for tunneling him so hard. I honestly thought we had a scum. Second, if scum saved up 2kp town is facing LYLO tomorrow; if not, MYLO. Either way, the road ahead is going to suck. Third, I have a few more reads coming up. I will be digging through Marv's, DJ's, IamP's and Chez's filters. Also, KVille needs to better explain his Lvdr greenflip/DJ redflip theory. | ||
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Okay. Let me reread their filters. | ||
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On August 30 2012 22:44 Bluelightz wrote: If I could kill someone let's kill Lingu. Explain. | ||
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Right now town has had 2 mislynches and a no-lynch. Mislynch on Obv was led by Marv. Mislynch on Lvdr was led by me. No-lynch switch from Lvdr (who we now know is town) was led by IamP's quickvote on Djagulingu. On August 27 2012 08:35 iamperfection wrote: ## unvote ## vote Djagulingu Explain faster. Of the three, I think IamP deserves scrutiny. His vote came at a time when town still hadn't solidified on anyone yet, but drew just enough votes away from Lvdr to make it a no-lynch. Then he goes about on a five-post train on Marv, starting with an FoS http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16016321 and ending with a retraction http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16028983 Midway through his FoS train on Marv, he votes Djagulingu using the same arguments he had from the night before, in spite of the fact that Dj had already explained his reasoning to most of the town's satisfaction. Then he drops his vote on Dj due to reasoning from Marv. WTF? Generally when players have an FoS on someone they usually don't use that person's arguments in good faith to change their vote. Yet IamP was willing to do so. To me, this smells like a distancing exercise. Why would IamP want to distance himself from Marv? Because many people in the thread at the time (notably, myself) were blaming them for leading/sheeping the Obvious mislynch. But then of course, once the heat dies down, those two band together on Talis again, and against the Lvdr mislynch. This is where it gets a bit strange. IamP begins engaging Lvdr in conversation (near the end of D3) and begins to constantly harry him to "post until the deadline". He gives a last minute townread on Lvdr, in complete contradiction to the wishy-washy reads he had before. But at this point the entire town is aligned against Lvdr except for him and Marv. To any observer, Lvdr's case looked scummier than the case on Talis. But somehow, to IamP, not only did Lvdr look less scummy, he looked like town. This clearly demonstrates prior knowledge of who is town and who isn't. Call me stubborn, but I am more and more in belief of a IamP/Marv/BL scumteam. I'll post more if I live. If not, please lynch IamP. Thank you. | ||
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First off, town, we are at 4-3 LYLO. We have to get 3 straight lynches right. Monumental, but it's been done before. On other forums, that is. Let's be the first TL Mafia squad that pulls this off. So basically IamP and Marv have been sheeping and supporting each other the entire game. They've been careful not to do it too aggressively, but they've been quietly doing it. There is an assumption of trust that underlies all their posting between each other. When Marv saved BL I thought it was a risky bus move to avoid a D1 lynch. The ease by which town sheeped him and the fact that Marv didn't bring BL up again anymore made me doubly suspicious of him. But with BL gone, the third leg of their little support group is gone, as is the third leg to my theory. At this point I am forced to subscribe to Marv's read on lurkers/bad play being dominant scumtells. In this case my scumteam shifts to Talis/DJ/Chez. I'm going to go with Marv on voting Talis. We'll see how the rest of today plays out. | ||
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Why not Talis? | ||
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Why not Talis, is my question | ||
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Talis/KV/DJ? Chez is just really hard to read =( | ||
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On September 01 2012 12:54 iamperfection wrote: Where you at chez what you make of this cluster fuck? Is it a clusterfuck? I think we have our town and we have our scum. | ||
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##Vote Talismania | ||
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On September 02 2012 07:26 Chezinu wrote: Just moved in apartment and I can't access internet. Looks like I got to phone post. OK Shady and I am are innocent to me. If one is mafia. The game is already over. So that leaves tali DJ marvy and kville. ##vote tali That took forever to bold! You forgot IamP. | ||
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On September 02 2012 11:12 Kville wrote: Hmm interesting You're dead buddy. | ||
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I don't give a fuck, scum can whack me for voting KVille. I dare them to go. Go ahead, make my day. | ||
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On September 02 2012 12:03 Kville wrote: Town don't sheep into this .....cop me or whatever you like I'll come up innocent every time. Think with intelligence and don't give in to the aggressive so called suprised gotcha reaction. This an easy play and common play for scum to do. Awwwwwww I think we have our godfather! | ||
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On September 02 2012 12:10 Kville wrote: Um no. I'm just telling the town not to buy your stupid shit. Look at you this is totally different from just a few hours ago. You just ordering stupid comments now. Mafia is so predictable. Ah... OMGUS. KVille, you're trapped and you know it. You were trying to set town up for a DJ mislynch off the Lvdr mislynch, clever, but it's been figured out now. You're stuck. Go die. | ||
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On September 02 2012 12:19 Kville wrote: Lol you really are that stupid arnt you? Scum please kill tonight id rather die tonight then be mislynched because of shady s stupidity The more you say shit like this more likely neither of us will die. | ||
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On September 02 2012 12:19 Kville wrote: Lol you really are that stupid arnt you? Scum please kill tonight id rather die tonight then be mislynched because of shady s stupidity Also, I love how you're just ignoring my callout of you. Here it is again, so everyone can see it: You were trying to set town up for a DJ mislynch off the Lvdr mislynch, clever, but it's been figured out now. You're stuck. Go die. | ||
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On September 02 2012 19:45 marvellosity wrote: who ISN'T going for kville though? obviously we need to be getting this one right... The correct move for scum at this point would be to bus KV, now that the DJ wagon has been discredited | ||
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Also by the same logic, Marv is not scum. So between IamP/KVille/Chez we have our 2 remaining scum. Reading filters | ||
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So now down to IamP/Chez for 3rd scum. | ||
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Not sure what you mean by this. In light of the Talis flip, who are your scumreads? What's your reasoning? | ||
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On September 03 2012 11:23 iamperfection wrote: i was role blocked I thought scum couldn't RB same person two days in a row? | ||
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On September 04 2012 02:53 Kville wrote: Don't lose another townie to scum play guys. Stop sheeping and start acting because this is going to hurt us big time. The scums are smiling in victory right now dont satisfy them. Think guys please don't make another mistake. KVille, who is your scumread then? If you're so hell-bent on getting out of the lynch, who is the alternative? | ||
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I'm confused here. | ||
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On September 04 2012 05:08 Kville wrote: I have said several times it is dj. Look at my filter, nothing has proved me other wise. And was comment that he was assuming that I read town on talis. So you read scum on talis? | ||
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On September 04 2012 05:10 Kville wrote: Can I get a town read on dj? because I can't see one. So prove me wrong so we can find the real scums. Make a case on Dj. | ||
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On August 23 2012 23:26 Chezinu wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote lvdr See how this is more powerful than FoS? If you just FoS people and wait for them to "defend" themselves. They will just lurk. Why defend when you know no one will vote for you? Speaking you lvdr, shady, and obvious... and whoever else used it prepage 28..didn't feel like going that far back. Anyways. We need to narrow down our lynching list. I wonder if we are having trouble reading mafia because they are lurking. Right now the votes seem spread out. Can a mafia wanting to look like town compile the votes without "accidentally" distorting them? Thanks. I'm hoping once we narrow down the list, it will force mafia to vote each other. So how about one of: Lvdr Obvious Bluelightz tali kvillie Then Chez makes a vote list himself. After that the suspicion off KVille lifted as town centered on Lvdr, then BL and Obvious. I find this strange because I didn't see that level of non-trolliness or interest from Chez for most of the game. Wierd. | ||
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On September 04 2012 05:48 Kville wrote: the list shows 4 of 5 towns. It is a list of who to lynch. Could be that chez can be scum as for the confection between us I see none. I want you to give a read on Chez. | ||
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On September 04 2012 06:06 Kville wrote: Well seeing how 4 of 5 of those people on the list are town and have been whacked off with the last town going to be gone aswell. It does show some suspicious activity. Did he sheep vote me aswell? If so it can be probable that he is. So you think Chez is scum. Why do you think DJ is scum again? Because given how Chez was trying to get DJ lynched D2, only one of them can realistically be scum. | ||
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On September 04 2012 06:14 Kville wrote: It is a possibility he cam be it needs more looking into but dj is my top read. So can you look into it? | ||
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You say that DJ switched to Lvdr, and that makes him scum since he switched to a townie But before that he was piled on Talis wagon for the better part of a day, and repeatedly said he would vote him in a race between the two bandwagons It took a lot of heavy pressure to change his mind from Talis to Lvdr Once Lvdr flipped town, he went back to voting Talis. Why would a scum DJ not start by voting Lvdr in the first place? Lvdr was an easy mislynch for scum, especially given how badly he was reacting to my pressure. | ||
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On September 04 2012 06:54 marvellosity wrote: I'm going to be in the thread properly in about 1.5 hours, and reading everything through, and I'll be around for at least a couple of hours. So if people are around and want to discuss shit, it's a good time. I want Chez to give his reasoning on the KVille vote. So far he's disappeared completely from the thread | ||
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On September 04 2012 07:32 Chezinu wrote: Through process of elimination I have concluded that DJ and kville are the last two mafia Explain please | ||
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On September 04 2012 07:49 Chezinu wrote: Shady innocent Iamperfection innocent Leaves DJ marv and kville Of those kville and DJ would make a good team cause they are going against each other. Plus marv was pushing tali before anyone cosidered him. But then why would DJ start by voting Talis D3? | ||
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DJ started by voting Talis, then switched to Lvdr. You even called him out for it, I think | ||
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On September 04 2012 08:23 marvellosity wrote: yes, it was a leading question ^^ my point was, actions > words. It's all very well voting for talis to start with, but it's totally meaningless if your vote doesn't end up on talis (and with little explanation, to boot) Actually, I'd read that as a town tell, because this is majority and time-based plurality lynch. In majority lynch, there's pressure to bandwagon on the leading candidate to ensure no no-lynch happens. So by piling on a wagon, you make it more likely that others will consider your wagon more heavily. In a time-based plurality setup, the opposite is true: if someone disagrees with the lynch, then you voting on someone will make it feel more urgent for that person to push their candidate to make sure their candidate wins the "race". Basically, if DJ was a scum, why would he make Talis look like the leading candidate with less than 24 hours to go, and only switch away from Talis once the votes got very close? That's not optimal scum play | ||
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On September 04 2012 08:30 marvellosity wrote: this is wifom. only switching away when the votes get close tells its own story. "not optimal" scumplay doesn't mean it isn't scumplay. Do you think Kville has made optimal scumplays? Hmmmmm, fair enough. Yeah KV's scumplay has been pretty bad. Reading through DJ's filter, the only thing that seems a little wierd is that he pushed for a Lvdr lynch D2 but then tried to associate a town flip on Lvdr to a lynch vote on Chez, which is almost exactly what KV wanted to do with Lvdr and DJ. | ||
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I don't think KV is bussing DJ, as KV has been going after DJ from the start of D3, miles before a LYLO situation was apparent. Remember, Talis was the leading candidate for a while D3. | ||
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On September 04 2012 09:12 Kville wrote: Very well. I was hoping you be able to help by making the right decision. Guess not. im pretty sure the votes are unanimous correct? Can I get the number of hours till please? Town do me a favor and stop sheeping. Either marv or shady is scum along with dj or possibly iamp. One of each from the two groups. Er... what happened to Chez? This is what KV wrote on Chez guys On September 04 2012 06:06 Kville wrote: Well seeing how 4 of 5 of those people on the list are town and have been whacked off with the last town going to be gone aswell. It does show some suspicious activity. Did he sheep vote me aswell? If so it can be probable that he is. ??? Anyhow at this point I'm just going to assume that KV is scum and that he's intentionally trying to confuse the town | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 04 2012 09:21 Kville wrote: Or perhaps you are just intentionally trying to kill a townie now. Tell me you gav yet to answer what happens when I flip town? Who will be next? I think you were missing a quote there. Why do I need to answer who I will accuse if you flip town? If you flip town it's game over since we're in LYLO (assuming scum used their delay power) | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 04 2012 09:30 Kville wrote: You can answer by helping town with some quality info. What are you hiding shady? That was a scum reply honestly. Why should I release that info that won't help town win? If you flip town, the game is over. Hence any reads I make predicated on you flipping town are useless from a town perspective, and only help scum decide who to target for their nightkill. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 04 2012 09:40 Kville wrote: Can also provide vigi some info if there is a chance as well. I don't think any vigi would be stupid enough to try for a lucky shot in a MYLO/LYLO situation. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 04 2012 10:02 Kville wrote: Then this is game over. Gg mafia ##Vote Kville lol. gg KVille? | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 04 2012 10:50 Kville wrote: Hm. suppose you right why not. I mean what the hell. Lol. ## unvote ## vote dj ???? | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 04 2012 15:03 Djagulingu wrote: You're full of shit KVille and iamperfection has never actually made sense anyway in terms of being a scumbag. You are the missing part in the scum team and we will try as hard as we can to miss you. Why is IamP town? | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 04 2012 16:15 Djagulingu wrote: He looks more town than Kville and Chezinu at least. Why? | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 04 2012 16:59 Djagulingu wrote: Because Kville has nothing that makes him look townie. Only attacking to suspicious townies, avoiding to attack scum teammates when they were suspected, attacking into townies, disguising it in newbie OMGUS. Chezinu on the other hand though, knows he doesn't need teammates to win this game. They delayed tonight as well, very good play takes one more to lynch, very easy to set up a 3-3 NL, or at least much easier it is. Even if we successfully lynch, he knows that long as I'm alive, he can trick town to attack me and not him. True. I don't like the quick 5-1 split though. Makes me wonder if we should have slowed down the KV wagon to bait the other scum out for a counter-wagon. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 05 2012 07:42 marvellosity wrote: Why do you think?! I can be thick sometimes | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
Right, sometimes. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 05 2012 08:07 Kville wrote: ##unvote ##Vote Shady KVille, why did you drop Chez from your list of suspects? | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On September 05 2012 08:32 Shady Sands wrote: KVille, why did you drop Chez from your list of suspects? Well? | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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