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On August 29 2012 20:55 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 20:44 Miltonkram wrote:
Ok, having caught up on the thread a few things have jumped out to me.
Firstly, because of general inactivity and the accusations that have been flying every which way between the active posters in the thread I think the correct play for scum has been to lay low. I'm looking at several players who have avoided putting out a lot of content, specifically Chezinu, Talismania, iamperfection, and KVille. At this moment I'd be fine with a lynch on any of them, but especially Chezinu. I realize he plays trolly, but he hasn't contributed much more than placeholder votes at the end of the days. This is bullshit. Feel free to hoist him up and I'll make sure to dance on his grave.
It seems like there is a decent amount of traction towards a talismania lynch. While my gut prefers a Chezinu lynch, I can happily get behind this lynch as well. Having played with talis in the past, I think he's been inactive/unhelpful enough to warrant a lynch.
I'm pretty tired and catching up on the thread while I probably should have been sleeping has left my brain fried. I'll hopefully get some more time when I wake up to put together more complete cases. Night everybody. To the bold, this could well be a good shout. Lvdr, do you have a 2nd read behind talis?
Thanks for drawing attention to this.
Marv, do you have 2nd and 3rd reads behind talis?
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On August 30 2012 00:49 Chezinu wrote:
I can't get over the fact how I find it strange that town can never lynch lvdr. Everytime lvdr has the lead, people just jump to another candidate. Anyone else noticing this?
This.
On Lvdr on D2, the people who jumped were me and you. The person who led the DJ lynch train was IamP. So the only thing we have to blame is ourselves. Today, we should stick to the Lvdr lynch.
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I just am really frustrated with the reasoning on the Talis wagon. I feel like Lvdr is a much, much, much stronger case than talis, and even certain folks on that wagon themselves seem to acknowledge it, yet somehow the Talis wagon has more votes. What gives?
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On August 30 2012 01:03 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 01:01 Chezinu wrote:On August 30 2012 00:57 Shady Sands wrote:On August 30 2012 00:49 Chezinu wrote:
I can't get over the fact how I find it strange that town can never lynch lvdr. Everytime lvdr has the lead, people just jump to another candidate. Anyone else noticing this? This. On Lvdr on D2, the people who jumped were me and you. The person who led the DJ lynch train was IamP. So the only thing we have to blame is ourselves. Today, we should stick to the Lvdr lynch. I jumped, but only after no one was voting lvdr. This time I'm not going to buy in, even if it is another good candidate such as tali. It is the same reason I'm not voting Dj right now. I need to stick to my original read. We need answers! I think the mafia are trying to lure me by providing a name that was on my list.
So why do you think Lvdr is scummy?
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On August 30 2012 01:30 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 03:31 Chezinu wrote:On August 22 2012 03:16 Palmar wrote:
Which reminds me. I'm up for a random lynch day 1.
You bros cool with that? I'm fine with whatever you have to say in a joking manner. However, we all know that behavior analysis is the number one option in lynching mafia day 1. Besides, you know what happened last time you advocated a random lynch day 1... It was not too long ago. Let us remember, oh yeah.. It was when you were mafia.. I think it is not wise to follow the same path unless you are trying to develop a new meta with your vanilla town role because you are so disappointed that you don't have any abilities. It is a good long term investment. BUT remember you must play to win... This isn't bureaucracy where your life comes before your job. You must play to win first! Well, I'm guessing that is in the op... I haven't read it yet to be honest.. Alright, I'm going to go read it now. Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 15:44 Chezinu wrote:On July 20 2012 15:38 Probulous wrote:On July 20 2012 15:31 Chezinu wrote:On July 20 2012 15:28 Probulous wrote:Hmmm but is there anyone with that skill? Chez, I assume your memory hasn't changed then? Is this about the nuke only being half true and about chezinu only being half chezinu? It's about Palmar So do you want to know where I was... well I was... not in a mafia irc cause we can't no communicate.. but I was at work or sleeping or something.. . even if I was there, why does it matter? I would never want to fall into the lynch policy nonsense. That stuff is ugly.. you know it doesn't matter and not very productive you knows.. I rather make jokes and talk nonsense to get people to relax and then BAM you falls into my trap as blazing did.. or something like that.. poor gonzaw.. well uhs umm... RL is a joke.. no not real life, thats kind of important .. the whole random lynch.. you know that like dumb.. you know there are good players with good analyzing skillz - just look around ya. Behavior analysiseses work. yeah... uh.. I didn't do it! These two posts say about the same thing. Very similiar in content. But only those who understand the chez troll can read it. It's very useful to talk to selected individuals. Others won't even read your posts.
Chez, here's the thing though. When you make a post like that and then vote for someone, you're not trying to convince other people of the correctness of your vote.
When town votes for someone, town wants other people to follow their vote as well. Town votes in good faith.
Scum doesn't. Scum wants the results of their votes to ideally never see the light of day, because that would mean either bussing or mislynching. So scum doesn't want to persuade other people to vote for the people they do.
Hence when you vote for someone and then make troll posts to justify the vote, people view you as scum. I hope you understand that.
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On August 30 2012 01:30 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 03:31 Chezinu wrote:On August 22 2012 03:16 Palmar wrote:
Which reminds me. I'm up for a random lynch day 1.
You bros cool with that? I'm fine with whatever you have to say in a joking manner. However, we all know that behavior analysis is the number one option in lynching mafia day 1. Besides, you know what happened last time you advocated a random lynch day 1... It was not too long ago. Let us remember, oh yeah.. It was when you were mafia.. I think it is not wise to follow the same path unless you are trying to develop a new meta with your vanilla town role because you are so disappointed that you don't have any abilities. It is a good long term investment. BUT remember you must play to win... This isn't bureaucracy where your life comes before your job. You must play to win first! Well, I'm guessing that is in the op... I haven't read it yet to be honest.. Alright, I'm going to go read it now. Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 15:44 Chezinu wrote:On July 20 2012 15:38 Probulous wrote:On July 20 2012 15:31 Chezinu wrote:On July 20 2012 15:28 Probulous wrote:Hmmm but is there anyone with that skill? Chez, I assume your memory hasn't changed then? Is this about the nuke only being half true and about chezinu only being half chezinu? It's about Palmar So do you want to know where I was... well I was... not in a mafia irc cause we can't no communicate.. but I was at work or sleeping or something.. . even if I was there, why does it matter? I would never want to fall into the lynch policy nonsense. That stuff is ugly.. you know it doesn't matter and not very productive you knows.. I rather make jokes and talk nonsense to get people to relax and then BAM you falls into my trap as blazing did.. or something like that.. poor gonzaw.. well uhs umm... RL is a joke.. no not real life, thats kind of important .. the whole random lynch.. you know that like dumb.. you know there are good players with good analyzing skillz - just look around ya. Behavior analysiseses work. yeah... uh.. I didn't do it! These two posts say about the same thing. Very similiar in content. But only those who understand the chez troll can read it. It's very useful to talk to selected individuals. Others won't even read your posts.
Chez, I'm referring to posts like this.
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On August 30 2012 02:38 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 01:30 Chezinu wrote:On August 22 2012 03:31 Chezinu wrote:On August 22 2012 03:16 Palmar wrote:
Which reminds me. I'm up for a random lynch day 1.
You bros cool with that? I'm fine with whatever you have to say in a joking manner. However, we all know that behavior analysis is the number one option in lynching mafia day 1. Besides, you know what happened last time you advocated a random lynch day 1... It was not too long ago. Let us remember, oh yeah.. It was when you were mafia.. I think it is not wise to follow the same path unless you are trying to develop a new meta with your vanilla town role because you are so disappointed that you don't have any abilities. It is a good long term investment. BUT remember you must play to win... This isn't bureaucracy where your life comes before your job. You must play to win first! Well, I'm guessing that is in the op... I haven't read it yet to be honest.. Alright, I'm going to go read it now. On July 20 2012 15:44 Chezinu wrote:On July 20 2012 15:38 Probulous wrote:On July 20 2012 15:31 Chezinu wrote:On July 20 2012 15:28 Probulous wrote:Hmmm but is there anyone with that skill? Chez, I assume your memory hasn't changed then? Is this about the nuke only being half true and about chezinu only being half chezinu? It's about Palmar So do you want to know where I was... well I was... not in a mafia irc cause we can't no communicate.. but I was at work or sleeping or something.. . even if I was there, why does it matter? I would never want to fall into the lynch policy nonsense. That stuff is ugly.. you know it doesn't matter and not very productive you knows.. I rather make jokes and talk nonsense to get people to relax and then BAM you falls into my trap as blazing did.. or something like that.. poor gonzaw.. well uhs umm... RL is a joke.. no not real life, thats kind of important .. the whole random lynch.. you know that like dumb.. you know there are good players with good analyzing skillz - just look around ya. Behavior analysiseses work. yeah... uh.. I didn't do it! These two posts say about the same thing. Very similiar in content. But only those who understand the chez troll can read it. It's very useful to talk to selected individuals. Others won't even read your posts. Chez, I'm referring to posts like this.
Posts like this get you nowhere closer to the goal which you logically should have, building up enough traction to get Lvdr lynched.
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On August 30 2012 02:42 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 02:39 Shady Sands wrote:On August 30 2012 02:38 Shady Sands wrote:On August 30 2012 01:30 Chezinu wrote:On August 22 2012 03:31 Chezinu wrote:On August 22 2012 03:16 Palmar wrote:
Which reminds me. I'm up for a random lynch day 1.
You bros cool with that? I'm fine with whatever you have to say in a joking manner. However, we all know that behavior analysis is the number one option in lynching mafia day 1. Besides, you know what happened last time you advocated a random lynch day 1... It was not too long ago. Let us remember, oh yeah.. It was when you were mafia.. I think it is not wise to follow the same path unless you are trying to develop a new meta with your vanilla town role because you are so disappointed that you don't have any abilities. It is a good long term investment. BUT remember you must play to win... This isn't bureaucracy where your life comes before your job. You must play to win first! Well, I'm guessing that is in the op... I haven't read it yet to be honest.. Alright, I'm going to go read it now. On July 20 2012 15:44 Chezinu wrote:On July 20 2012 15:38 Probulous wrote:On July 20 2012 15:31 Chezinu wrote:On July 20 2012 15:28 Probulous wrote:Hmmm but is there anyone with that skill? Chez, I assume your memory hasn't changed then? Is this about the nuke only being half true and about chezinu only being half chezinu? It's about Palmar So do you want to know where I was... well I was... not in a mafia irc cause we can't no communicate.. but I was at work or sleeping or something.. . even if I was there, why does it matter? I would never want to fall into the lynch policy nonsense. That stuff is ugly.. you know it doesn't matter and not very productive you knows.. I rather make jokes and talk nonsense to get people to relax and then BAM you falls into my trap as blazing did.. or something like that.. poor gonzaw.. well uhs umm... RL is a joke.. no not real life, thats kind of important .. the whole random lynch.. you know that like dumb.. you know there are good players with good analyzing skillz - just look around ya. Behavior analysiseses work. yeah... uh.. I didn't do it! These two posts say about the same thing. Very similiar in content. But only those who understand the chez troll can read it. It's very useful to talk to selected individuals. Others won't even read your posts. Chez, I'm referring to posts like this. Posts like this get you nowhere closer to the goal which you logically should have, building up enough traction to get Lvdr lynched. Winning is not the only objective of playing mafia. Having fun is a crucial part of the game. Of course, I will try and withhold having too much fun if it will hurt the town. But I don't see how making that post hurts the town.
Posts like that don't hurt the town, but they don't help the town either.
The issue is if you're just playing to have fun, it makes it impossible to develop good reads on you. That's what ends up hurting town. Understand?
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On August 29 2012 05:47 talismania wrote:ok dj I understand what you're trying to say but it doesn't hang together. This is the post that you said later was intended half as bait: Show nested quote +On August 27 2012 06:45 Djagulingu wrote:
Lvdr lynch will give a big time info to us. If he flips scum, we're good. If he is townie, then we have all the reasons to suspect Chezinu. Your claimed trap was to push a lynch on lvdr, who you supposedly think might be scum. if he is, great, if he isn't maybe you can catch people bandwagoning. So far... ok. But at the time you made that post, you already had two people voting behind you. So the actual trap part wasn't this post, it was the part where you voted lvdr. This doesn't contribute to the supposed trap. Instead it sounds like what it probably is: lynch lvdr, if he flips town, lynch chez. In essence, justifying two days of votes at once, which smells like scum. That isn't bait for anything, and calling it that is a clumsy way to recast your actions.
Talis, where are you? Your neck is on the chopping block. You should be in here defending yourself.
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On August 30 2012 00:06 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 23:45 Djagulingu wrote:On August 29 2012 22:57 Bluelightz wrote:
I don't know, talis's post's seem's townie compared to his scum game in Pick Your Poison, granted in PYP he was active, but I dunno, I'll vote talis before I sleep though to consolidate (as I won't be there for the deadline, school started). Maybe they lost convincingly in that game and he's trying to work on his scum play? Well, I have an odd feeling that you might be scum, and that your pushing for the easy lynch today, and I think talis is town, from his reasoning on not being active.
What the heck?
You think Talis is town.
Then you say that you'll vote on him to consolidate. That's a blatant sheep vote and you know it. You've only contributed one decent case on Chez so far and that's it.
FoS Bluelightz
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Town, again, my read is that Lvdr is scum.
Everyone please read his filter and also read the below case. Thank you.
On August 29 2012 16:06 Shady Sands wrote:More points on Lvdr: Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 08:18 Lvdr wrote:
I'm back. I was focusing on my other game. Still read along here, but didn't have much jump out at me. Going to do a close reading. He says he'll do a close reading, then comes back with this: Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 14:08 Lvdr wrote:
I like my previous read on talis being scum. Also, I disappeared mainly because (as you noted) I was extremely involved in the other game, esp coming down to lynch deadlines, and I was unable to deal with shady because I was mad at him (oops).
The lack of activity makes me really uncomfortable. Also, it may be a cross game gambit, but Shady's actions here seem similar to those in the other game (where he flipped scum). I keep getting a "He is either really bad town or clumsy scum" read across the two games.
I would say lets just lynch him, but I don't think thats actually good play.
Hence, ##vote:Talismania As noted above, he's sheeping Marv and IamP here when he's already done that with the Obvious lynch. Moreover, the results of his reading simply state that And Show nested quote +Also, it may be a cross game gambit, but Shady's actions here seem similar to those in the other game (where he flipped scum). Other than me and Talis, he has no results. At all. No comment on the whole IamP/Chez/DJ discussion which has occupied most of the last three pages, no mention of his thoughts on the D2 no-lynch at all. No analysis of voting patterns or anything specific which leads to his scumreads on me or Talis; instead, we just get a general meta read and reiteration of prior points on Talis. Except: this is his prior read on Talis: Which he has never elaborated upon. Indeed, his vote on Talis D2 said this: So Lvdr at this point has offered the town no reads at all since D1, while claiming to have scumreads on 2 people. In addition he's sheeping Marv yet again and making excuses for his lurky behavior when he clearly had a much higher activity level in the game where he was town. Basically, at this point, he has a giant scum sign hanging above his head. This, on top of the fact that lynching him will provide town with a plethora of information about other players as well. In case you guys haven't done it yet, Vote Lvdr or else I will call my friend to find your IP address and DDOS you back to the stone age.
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On August 30 2012 04:03 Miltonkram wrote:
@ Shady
I'll look closer at Lvdr. I'm at work so it'll probably take me a while. What's your opinion towards Chez? I don't like the idea of him being around during LYLO because his filter is pretty shit.
I'll do my best to comment, answer questions, and build towards a lynch today, but once again I'm at work so it will be difficult for me to get in here.
My opinion toward Chez is just like yours. My response is a bit different though. I want to give him a chance to contribute. If he still doesn't, then we lynch him after Lvdr.
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On August 30 2012 04:03 Miltonkram wrote:
@ Shady
I'll look closer at Lvdr. I'm at work so it'll probably take me a while. What's your opinion towards Chez? I don't like the idea of him being around during LYLO because his filter is pretty shit.
I'll do my best to comment, answer questions, and build towards a lynch today, but once again I'm at work so it will be difficult for me to get in here.
Also, Chez is not a realistic wagon today. It's coming down to Lvdr or Talismania.
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]Vote count:
iamperfection (0):
Shady Sands
Chezinu (1):
Bluelightz
Djagulingu
Djagulingu (0):
Kville
iamperfection
Lvdr (3):
Chezinu
Shady Sands
Kville
Talismania
talismania (4):
marvellosity
iamperfection
Lvdr
Djagulingu
Not Voting
Miltonkram
Bluelightz, Milton--you guys hold the hammer. BL if you end up last minute sheeping the vote with little to no explanation, then you will look very scummy no matter what the result of the lynch. Get in here.
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ebwop should read:
iamperfection (0):
Shady Sands
Chezinu (1):
Bluelightz
Djagulingu
Djagulingu (0):
Kville
iamperfection
Lvdr (4):
Chezinu
Shady Sands
Kville
Talismania
talismania (4):
marvellosity
iamperfection
Lvdr
Djagulingu
Not Voting
Miltonkram
Bluelightz, Milton--you guys hold the hammer. BL if you end up last minute sheeping the vote with little to no explanation, then you will look very scummy no matter what the result of the lynch. Get in here.
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On August 30 2012 04:42 talismania wrote:I thoguht lvdr legitimately slipped d1 but then after re-reading it I decided I was probably wrong about that part. but then this from today is kinda funny: Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 14:33 Lvdr wrote:Hmm my read on chez is that he is engaged in the game. His voting patterns look pretty pro-town (extremely active at deadline, seems to be trying to find a good lynch even if he doesn't actually state reasoning) Unfortunately it is very hard (at least for me) to read a troll player. YourHarry's scum game was deadly effective, and it doesn't seem that a troll townie could be all that useful to the town. Not sure why he voted for me, but hopefully there is an explanation at the other end of the rainbow. That being said, I think a vigi shot could be a good call at this point. Does the town know who made the shotRegarding talis, I would give him no better than a null read. 2 points that stuck out to me. 1. The activity is quite low, and not particularly filled with content. I wouldn't call it downright scummy though. 2. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836¤tpage=25#497This post latches on to a stretch of a case, complete agreement, no further points made, never revisited beyond his initial AHA moment. Maybe I've talked myself into a scum-read. I have to see how I feel after some-more activity. Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 14:08 Lvdr wrote:
I like my previous read on talis being scum. Also, I disappeared mainly because (as you noted) I was extremely involved in the other game, esp coming down to lynch deadlines, and I was unable to deal with shady because I was mad at him (oops).
The lack of activity makes me really uncomfortable. Also, it may be a cross game gambit, but Shady's actions here seem similar to those in the other game (where he flipped scum). I keep getting a "He is either really bad town or clumsy scum" read across the two games.
I would say lets just lynch him, but I don't think thats actually good play.
Hence, ##vote:Talismania classic scum forgetting what he wrote earlier. ##vote:lvdr
Yep. Town, what Talis just pointed out is a fairly open scumslip. Everyone pile in.
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On August 30 2012 04:56 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2012 04:10 talismania wrote:
hokay so basically I'm on the block because I haven't been around? I guess that makes sense. I haven't been around much after all =P Can't say I've even really gotten into this game from the get-go either. I usually like a bit of setup talk to chew on but this one after all is normal.
ok let me gather my reads n shit. Apathy that only happens when talis is not town. talis hates scum and loves playing town. I'd like to see him even try to deny this, and try to explain this away.
These are very spurious tells you're going off of. Basically your whole case on Talis boils down to him not knowing his own meta. If Talis knew his town meta was "enthusiastic+busy", why would he even make posts which make him seem apathetic? Only a town Talis would have an excuse to excuse his own lurky play.
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On August 30 2012 05:05 marvellosity wrote:
talis' defence is
"i don't give a shit about this game"
brilliant.
Lynch this guy.
And Lvdr's defence is "when I'm town, I play like a scum".
On August 30 2012 05:06 Lvdr wrote:
Guys I always seem to have these 'scumslips' as town. I can be too offhand in assuming people know what I mean, which gets me into trouble. My prior read was slight scummy on talis. Coming back later I was reconfirming as a stronger read.
Let's make sure we have a lynch today though, even if its me. 2 no lynches would be pretty bad...
Lvdr your read on Talis was null. When you voted Talis you said "let's see what happens" not "I think we got a scum." Then you conflate your original read into "I have a scum read on Talis".
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On August 30 2012 05:04 marvellosity wrote:
Shady you're so dumb sometimes
Jeez Marv. I just posted my interpretation of Talis' actions.
Why don't you post your interpretation of how Lvdr could forget his own fucking read on someone?
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Updated Vote Count
iamperfection (0):
Shady Sands
Chezinu (1):
Bluelightz
Djagulingu
Djagulingu (0):
Kville
iamperfection
Lvdr (5):
Chezinu
Shady Sands
Kville
Talismania
Djagulingu
talismania (3):
marvellosity
iamperfection
Lvdr
Not Voting
Miltonkram
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EPT
