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On August 26 2012 17:53 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 17:49 Obvious.660 wrote:
I will say that it absolutely SUCKED to replace for Ochrow given his posting habits. I'm not against replacing again in the future, I will probably try to be a bit better informed as to WHO/WHAT it is that I'm replacing next time though. 95% of the time, you'll be replacing in sometime between N1 and N2, and you'll be doing it for a guy who did next to no analysis then lurked. Typically replacements are extended a small benefit of the doubt, but are expected to also do extra to make up for the bad position they're in. I've only ever once seen a replacement who got no benefit of the doubt, and that was me, because I replaced into Storm Mafia a few minutes in. but yeah most of the time replacing in means fighting your way into a game from the position of a replaced lurker, whether you were scum or town.
Why wasn't it suspicious when I survived a NK? Isn't that typically what happens to controversial townies who aren't NK'd the night they are subbed in? They get lined up for a lynch? Maybe I am misremembering. Yeah, I just kinda found Marv's post in the replacements thread by random chance so I found him on IRC so I let him know I was available. It was actually interesting having two games going at once for a couple days.
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On August 26 2012 17:49 Obvious.660 wrote:
My play last night started to slip drastically, I was heading into a sort of a depression and I really wanted nothing to do with anything or anyone, so I just kinda phoned it in, if that wasn't apparent from my previous few posts.
I feel for ya, the same kind of thing happened to me from N1 onwards. I used the game as a distraction from real life problems and I ended up staying awake and posting for over 24 hours at one point. The added stress of being tunneled the whole game by pretty much everybody made it hard to post but the game was interesting and exciting enough for me to commit myself to it. TBH I was so fucking relieved when I got lynched.
GG everyone it was a crazy and interesting first game.
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On August 26 2012 18:11 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 17:49 Obvious.660 wrote:
My play last night started to slip drastically, I was heading into a sort of a depression and I really wanted nothing to do with anything or anyone, so I just kinda phoned it in, if that wasn't apparent from my previous few posts. I feel for ya, the same kind of thing happened to me from N1 onwards. I used the game as a distraction from real life problems and I ended up staying awake and posting for over 24 hours at one point. The added stress of being tunneled the whole game by pretty much everybody made it hard to post but the game was interesting and exciting enough for me to commit myself to it. TBH I was so fucking relieved when I got lynched. GG everyone it was a crazy and interesting first game.
LOL that's how I died in Newbie XXI as Vet. I was up for 30 hours, posted crazy stuff, then slept for like 10 through the deadline and wasn't there to defend myself. Was kind of cathartic though, for a first game. Jumped right into XXII :D
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Highly speculative WIFOM point 1) My understanding is that neither the target nor myself is notified of a roleblock. So after night one when he claimed RB I thought it was mafia's doing. However, after night 2 he also claimed RB. As I understand it, this is only his second game, so it is entirely possible that he hasn't carefully read the differences in how RB-ing works and is in fact a blue. More specifically, a cop that isn't getting his night checks returned to him. This is highly speculative, and I feel DarthPunk is an intelligent player, and would have a good enough grasp on game mechanics to only claim RB if it was clearly from a RB-er. Honestly, I'm not exactly sure why I bring this up as I feel this is highly unlikely.
From GK coaching QT. It seems as if because my Night action was blocked I got a role-block notification. The exact words were 'You were roleblocked'
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On August 26 2012 17:57 Obvious.660 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 17:53 Blazinghand wrote:On August 26 2012 17:49 Obvious.660 wrote:
I will say that it absolutely SUCKED to replace for Ochrow given his posting habits. I'm not against replacing again in the future, I will probably try to be a bit better informed as to WHO/WHAT it is that I'm replacing next time though. 95% of the time, you'll be replacing in sometime between N1 and N2, and you'll be doing it for a guy who did next to no analysis then lurked. Typically replacements are extended a small benefit of the doubt, but are expected to also do extra to make up for the bad position they're in. I've only ever once seen a replacement who got no benefit of the doubt, and that was me, because I replaced into Storm Mafia a few minutes in. but yeah most of the time replacing in means fighting your way into a game from the position of a replaced lurker, whether you were scum or town. Why wasn't it suspicious when I survived a NK? Isn't that typically what happens to controversial townies who aren't NK'd the night they are subbed in? They get lined up for a lynch? Maybe I am misremembering. Yeah, I just kinda found Marv's post in the replacements thread by random chance so I found him on IRC so I let him know I was available. It was actually interesting having two games going at once for a couple days.
Sometimes replacements are NKed, sometimes they aren't. If scum thinks you're not a real threat, you're off-track, or you're not using your benefit of the doubt to help the town, they won't NK you. Also, there were strong sentiments about the few candidates up for the lynch each day, whereas you were mostly not in the crosshairs.
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On August 26 2012 18:16 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +Highly speculative WIFOM point 1) My understanding is that neither the target nor myself is notified of a roleblock. So after night one when he claimed RB I thought it was mafia's doing. However, after night 2 he also claimed RB. As I understand it, this is only his second game, so it is entirely possible that he hasn't carefully read the differences in how RB-ing works and is in fact a blue. More specifically, a cop that isn't getting his night checks returned to him. This is highly speculative, and I feel DarthPunk is an intelligent player, and would have a good enough grasp on game mechanics to only claim RB if it was clearly from a RB-er. Honestly, I'm not exactly sure why I bring this up as I feel this is highly unlikely.
From GK coaching QT. It seems as if because my Night action was blocked I got a role-block notification. The exact words were 'You were roleblocked'
Yeah... The wording on my role PM confused me a bit. I spent half the game thinking my jail target wasn't notified of being role-blocked lol.
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On August 26 2012 18:27 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 18:16 DarthPunk wrote:Highly speculative WIFOM point 1) My understanding is that neither the target nor myself is notified of a roleblock. So after night one when he claimed RB I thought it was mafia's doing. However, after night 2 he also claimed RB. As I understand it, this is only his second game, so it is entirely possible that he hasn't carefully read the differences in how RB-ing works and is in fact a blue. More specifically, a cop that isn't getting his night checks returned to him. This is highly speculative, and I feel DarthPunk is an intelligent player, and would have a good enough grasp on game mechanics to only claim RB if it was clearly from a RB-er. Honestly, I'm not exactly sure why I bring this up as I feel this is highly unlikely.
From GK coaching QT. It seems as if because my Night action was blocked I got a role-block notification. The exact words were 'You were roleblocked' Yeah... The wording on my role PM confused me a bit. I spent half the game thinking my jail target wasn't notified of being role-blocked lol.
<3 Thanks GK by the way. You carried us big time. HAHA.
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Okay my fellow players. Post-game question for you who were suspicious of Ochrow and wanted me to explain his play. Now that we have no pretenses, what kinds of things were you looking for? I honestly, laden with the curse of knowing his role, read it all as bad town (quite clearly I was almost as bad as him at the role). I'd love to sub in again, but what kinds of things specifically were you looking for? Was it just willingness to analyze his filter and figure it out for you? I certainly didn't feel like that would do much good, since I wasn't the one interacting with him. Any input from those questioning me would be appreciated, I want to try this social experiment again sometime.
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@Everyone Sorry for my relative inactivity. Working full time, school and the release of Global Offensive and Guild Wars 2 really fucked my shit up. As an aside since this actually did take my PC out of commission for close to a day if anyone knows where I can find some replacement GPU and CPU fans for an ASUS G73 other than shipping my laptop to Taiwan I'd love you forever. Hopefully the posts I did make were reasoned enough for you guys to see what I was trying to argue.
@GK & DP Well played, sorry for arguing with you so much towards the end. Clearly I need to work on recognizing blue roles because at most I had one of you as a JK. From a noob VT perspective lynching Golbat did seem like a shitty decision without the last RB coming in to verify his lynches. Rum and hindsight give me 20/20 so in retrospect I should have realized that given how adamant you guys were and my town read on you that you probably knew something I didn't instead of trying to come up with ways that you could be wrong. After the Thrawn mislynch though I was scared you guys were leading the town into another Thrawn type lynch where a "feeling" was going to trump getting the maximum amount of information for town. I feel like I should have argued for a YH lynch much stronger on D2 instead of just saying "hey, here's why lynching Thrawn is bad. Brb you guys decide." That was definitely a mistake.
@BlazingHand Sorry I only used your coaching once. Since this was my first online game I really wanted to try and wing it on my own because I probably would have asked so many questions that I was basically asking you to play for me otherwise.
That said I'm more than open to any critique in regards to building cases and recognizing scumtells. Ideally I'd be more active but that wasn't really an option during this game unfortunately.
@Everyone else
GG, thanks for playing. It was a lot of fun and I feel like I learned quite a bit. Thanks for hosting Marv, Zent and Kei.
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On August 26 2012 18:33 Obvious.660 wrote:
Okay my fellow players. Post-game question for you who were suspicious of Ochrow and wanted me to explain his play. Now that we have no pretenses, what kinds of things were you looking for? I honestly, laden with the curse of knowing his role, read it all as bad town (quite clearly I was almost as bad as him at the role). I'd love to sub in again, but what kinds of things specifically were you looking for? Was it just willingness to analyze his filter and figure it out for you? I certainly didn't feel like that would do much good, since I wasn't the one interacting with him. Any input from those questioning me would be appreciated, I want to try this social experiment again sometime.
The thing that started all of it was that ochrow and I made posts at exactly the same time (down to the minute) and we talked about the same shit and came to the same conclusions.
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On August 26 2012 18:33 Obvious.660 wrote:
Okay my fellow players. Post-game question for you who were suspicious of Ochrow and wanted me to explain his play. Now that we have no pretenses, what kinds of things were you looking for? I honestly, laden with the curse of knowing his role, read it all as bad town (quite clearly I was almost as bad as him at the role). I'd love to sub in again, but what kinds of things specifically were you looking for? Was it just willingness to analyze his filter and figure it out for you? I certainly didn't feel like that would do much good, since I wasn't the one interacting with him. Any input from those questioning me would be appreciated, I want to try this social experiment again sometime.
I thought it was pretty clear you were town to be honest and the way you went about not trying to prove yourself but actually participate was good. I think we all could have been more active (apart from GK) but otherwise I felt that you were town. This also could have been to do with the fact that after the Thrawn flip. I realised how retarded associative cases could be and the main case against Ochrow was associative. The other aspect of the case against you was that Ochrow and Thrawn shared a QT. That was invalid as soon as thrawn flipped green and I am glad GK dropped the case gainst you in the end.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On August 26 2012 18:37 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 18:33 Obvious.660 wrote:
Okay my fellow players. Post-game question for you who were suspicious of Ochrow and wanted me to explain his play. Now that we have no pretenses, what kinds of things were you looking for? I honestly, laden with the curse of knowing his role, read it all as bad town (quite clearly I was almost as bad as him at the role). I'd love to sub in again, but what kinds of things specifically were you looking for? Was it just willingness to analyze his filter and figure it out for you? I certainly didn't feel like that would do much good, since I wasn't the one interacting with him. Any input from those questioning me would be appreciated, I want to try this social experiment again sometime. I thought it was pretty clear you were town to be honest and the way you went about not trying to prove yourself but actually participate was good. I think we all could have been more active (apart from GK) but otherwise I felt that you were town. This also could have been to do with the fact that after the Thrawn flip. I realised how retarded associative cases could be and the main case against Ochrow was associative. The other aspect of the case against you was that Ochrow and Thrawn shared a QT. That was invalid as soon as thrawn flipped green and I am glad GK dropped the case gainst you in the end.
FWIW I don't consider associative cases to really exist until one of the two players flips scum
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On August 26 2012 18:37 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 18:33 Obvious.660 wrote:
Okay my fellow players. Post-game question for you who were suspicious of Ochrow and wanted me to explain his play. Now that we have no pretenses, what kinds of things were you looking for? I honestly, laden with the curse of knowing his role, read it all as bad town (quite clearly I was almost as bad as him at the role). I'd love to sub in again, but what kinds of things specifically were you looking for? Was it just willingness to analyze his filter and figure it out for you? I certainly didn't feel like that would do much good, since I wasn't the one interacting with him. Any input from those questioning me would be appreciated, I want to try this social experiment again sometime. I thought it was pretty clear you were town to be honest and the way you went about not trying to prove yourself but actually participate was good. I think we all could have been more active (apart from GK) but otherwise I felt that you were town. This also could have been to do with the fact that after the Thrawn flip. I realised how retarded associative cases could be and the main case against Ochrow was associative. The other aspect of the case against you was that Ochrow and Thrawn shared a QT. That was invalid as soon as thrawn flipped green and I am glad GK dropped the case gainst you in the end.
Okay, so I honestly should have re-read D2 a lot better when I got in. I tried cramming in what I could during the 10-ish hours (around the other crap IRL) or whatever it was that I had from sub to lynch, and analyzing Ochrow struck me as the worst possible thing I could have been doing to help at scumhunting at the time. Thanks for clearing that up haha.
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When would an XXVI likely be starting up?
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GG guys. I'll get you next game 
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Marv, next time I demand a VT named for me.
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Hey what is this. VE dying before me??? ridiculous. And lynched, to boot 
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So bad news. I live in south Louisiana, around New Orleans. Hurricane Isaac is barreling towards me, so I've been busy with storm prep and getting ready to evacuate tomorrow. No analysis post today, and probably not tomorrow either. Hopefully I can get one done Wednesday though.
Sorry guys
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EPT
