Mad Men Mafia

On July 14 2012 09:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Role list

This game uses Heavy flavour for the role list. Each and every player in the game will have a separate character. Vanilla green players will still get flavour for their character regardless of being vanilla. Any character could be green/blue/red. Everyone is welcome to roleplay their character if they wish.

Warning. There will be spoilers potentially in this game from the show. You are warned.

Roles that will be included

Townie
You may just be a normal player but you are the backbone of the town. Your goal is to help bring the Mafia to justice. You get no special powers but the ability to vote during day. Blue Roles may look pretty but the real power lies with you!

Detective
You have the ability to make night investigations. Once per night phase, you may PM me to ask for the role of one player.

Medic
You have the ability to prevent one hit on a player of your choice during the night. You may not protect yourself. Each paramedic can only stop one hit and as such if the number of mafia is greater than the number of paramedics on a player then that player will die. You will know if you saved the person. The person will know if he was saved. If you are protecting a veteran, and they are hit, your ability supercedes theirs. A medic can protect someone the night she/he gets killed. They won't be notified of their save though, since they are dead.

Vigilante
You may, only once during the game, kill a player of your choice during the night. Your hit acts exactly as that of Mafia, meaning it can be used to to take out extra lives or use up Medic protection.

Veteran
You get two night lives instead of one! This means it takes at least two successful hits in one night to kill you, or one hit on each of two separate nights. A veteran will be told when they lose one of their night lives. If you get lynched, you die, regardless of whether you have an extra night life remaining.

Mason
At the beginning of every cycle, you may send a PM to me detailing who you would like to Mason with during that cycle. You may PM with that person for the full cycle. You may not choose a person you have already Masoned with for the remainder of the game.

Miller
This player is a townie in every way except that if a DT role checks this player, the DT will be told the Miller is a Mafia. The Miller is told that they are a Townie. The Miller will be revealed as a Miller upon their death. The miller is on the side of the Townies, and wins if they win.

Mafia
Your goal is to eliminate everyone else in the town. Your ability, as a group, is killing off whomever you decide on at night and knowing the role of each other player in your mafia. You may kill your own members. Mafia killing power will be determined when the game begins. You also must choose the Godfather, and Roleblocker from among yourselves. These two mafia power roles must be separately distributed, meaning one Mafia member can only possess one of these powers. If you do not choose by the start of night 1, I will randomly choose for you. Mafia will also have a certain number of Masons, which can be given to any Mafia (even those possessing other roles).

Mason
At the beginning of every cycle, you may send a PM to me detailing who you would like to Mason with during that cycle. You may PM with that person for the full cycle. You may not choose a person you have already Masoned with for the remainder of the game. The Mafia team will have a set number of people to choose as Masons. Mafia with other roles (Roleblocker, Godfather) can double up on Mason roles.

Mafia Roleblocker
Once per night, you may send in a PM detailing a person you would like to block. That person will be notified that they were blocked, and if the person being blocked has a night action, he or she will not be able to use it. Please note that this ability only pertains to active actions. Passive abilities, such as the Veteran's extra lives, cannot be blocked by mafia.

Godfather
The Godfather has the ability to decide what role he will appear to be when a Detective role checks him. It may be any role and must be chosen Day 1 or he will default to Townie role. After your role is chosen you may not change it after that; decisions are final for the whole game.

Does this mean one(or more) of each role must be present? You don't say that it's a semi open setup so that means that there is a possibilty for other roles as well, right?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 03 2012 08:57 GMT

#262

I really don't see a reason for someone NOT to claim if they get masoned. One might argue that it let's scum get one of the few pieces of info that they've not already recived, however I don't really see how scum would be able to capitalize on the fact that there are town masons in the game.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 03 2012 11:09 GMT

#268

On August 03 2012 17:57 Lazermonkey wrote:
I really don't see a reason for someone NOT to claim if they get masoned. One might argue that it let's scum get one of the few pieces of info that they've not already recived, however I don't really see how scum would be able to capitalize on the fact that there are town masons in the game.

Okay, when thinking of it, there might be some situations that people claiming masoned might be usefull for scum. But Town will most likely gain more from claiming than scum. Masoned players SHOULD claim.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 03 2012 12:38 GMT

#287

@Toad: I don't agree with masoned players not claiming. You say that the most likely player to be masoned is someone who looks town, I agree with that. But your argument is that scum will have an easier time to make a good NK kill because of that. People will be posting town reads none the les so I don't see this as much of an issue. One town read will most probebly not be the main reason for a Nk and if there are alot of people suspecting that person to be town, he is very likely to be killed anyway.Also, if the masoned players claim right before night we can prevent a night kill on these players at least for that night.

Basically, this is the only negative thing I can think of with people claiming masoned. But the advantages for this is way bigger.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 03 2012 13:13 GMT

#290

On August 03 2012 21:44 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

Just to remind you, this was the question:

Show nested quote +

We will know the exact numbers of masons unless scum mason decides not to use his power at all in which case he can be treated as vanilla scum. Yes, this means scum will also know how many masons there are, however scum already have two advantages here.
1. They already know whether or not there is a scum mason.
2. If one scum ever gets masoned all scum will know who is that that person is scum mason whilest if town gets masoned and we decide that they shouldn't claim, only that person will know who is the mason.

There is more to gain for town than for scum by claiming.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 03 2012 14:56 GMT

#324

On August 03 2012 22:27 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 03 2012 22:13 Lazermonkey wrote:

On August 03 2012 21:44 Toadesstern wrote:

On August 03 2012 21:38 Lazermonkey wrote:
@Toad: I don't agree with masoned players not claiming. You say that the most likely player to be masoned is someone who looks town, I agree with that. But your argument is that scum will have an easier time to make a good NK kill because of that. People will be posting town reads none the les so I don't see this as much of an issue. One town read will most probebly not be the main reason for a Nk and if there are alot of people suspecting that person to be town, he is very likely to be killed anyway.Also, if the masoned players claim right before night we can prevent a night kill on these players at least for that night.

Basically, this is the only negative thing I can think of with people claiming masoned. But the advantages for this is way bigger.

Just to remind you, this was the question:

On August 03 2012 20:35 Toadesstern wrote:

On August 03 2012 20:09 Lazermonkey wrote:

what kind of information do you get as a townie if I were to tell you that I got masoned for example?
What kind of reaction would that trigger?

I can't think of one to be honest.

We will know the exact numbers of masons unless scum mason decides not to use his power at all in which case he can be treated as vanilla scum. Yes, this means scum will also know how many masons there are, however scum already have two advantages here.
1. They already know whether or not there is a scum mason.
2. If one scum ever gets masoned all scum will know who is that that person is scum mason whilest if town gets masoned and we decide that they shouldn't claim, only that person will know who is the mason.

There is more to gain for town than for scum by claiming.

If you treat it as information we want to use that IS a pretty big if, isn't it?

Let's say we're in a situation with 3 town masons and 1 mafia mason for the sake of getting some numbers.
Let's say the 3 town masons get claimed, the 1 mafia mason won't be claimed.
What's the next step? "Woah, we've got EXACTLY 3 masons, one of them is bound to be mafia! Let's lynch into them!" ?
If that's not the next step, what good is the information?
You said yourself, we're going to know the exact number of masons, while saying that it's very much possible that the number will be wrong. That's kind of contradicting imo.

Show nested quote +

kind of.

That's not what I said. In the situation you describe we can't assume that any of the masons are scum. There are no guarantees for scum mason. However, In the situation you describe, we have effectivly turned a quite strong scum mason into a weak vanilla scum. We are in an advantage we wouldn't have been in if we wouldn't claim masoned.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 03 2012 15:00 GMT

#327

EBWOP: So essentially even if we are wrong about the number of masons it's good for us.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 03 2012 15:57 GMT

#343

@Toad: Well we shouldn't lynch a couple of masons just because they are masons, the same way we shouldn't give them some sort of immunity just because they are masons. If they are scummy - > lynch. if not then we don't. Obviously... But that isn't really what we argued about in the first place. I said we should claim beeing masoned, not mason.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 04 2012 13:52 GMT

#504

Wbg: grush scum meta isn't to troll. His meta overall just doesn't make any sense. I played with him in Newbie XVI(where you actually coached me a bit so you maybe remember that as well). He made posts like this all the time and even claimed detective. Guess what? He was VT.

Lynching grush today is essentially a coinflip. I will not lynch into him today.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 04 2012 16:08 GMT

#524

On August 04 2012 22:56 Erandorr wrote:

Show nested quote +

So what exactly do you intend to do. Do you agree about WBG?

If you mean agree with lynching him, then yes. His play really havn't made alot of sense to me and in some cases been directly anti-town imo. This is especially suspicious because of the fact that he is s veteran.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 04 2012 21:54 GMT

#626

When is the lynch happening? I've been busy as hell these last two days and finally got some time to post now. I will reread some stuff now

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 04 2012 23:08 GMT

#672

So regarding the WBG vs Prp debate:

I truly disagree WBG opinions about both outing the masons and his vote on grush. I do however agree with what he said about having diferent opinions=/=being scummy.

When reading his filter I have a hard time seeing scum motives behind his play.

Him outing masons doesn't make sense as scum unless VE and Errador are both scum, which is quite unlikely. He could simply have said all that in mafia QT and effectivly avoided this major shit storm he is in. Scum would all have gotten all the info , town none and WGB could've had a good shot at manipulating the masons.

Regarding grush, I don't agree with this move one single bit. But what's the motive behind this from a scum PoV? There were so many easy targets, but yet he chose grush. Also note that noone really supported him in his case against grush.

I'd say prp is the better lynch out of the two as of now for reasons others stated. Prp is playing in a super defensive way and his reason for loosing the pressure on Glasse is just weak.

##Unvote
##Vote Prplhz

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 05 2012 09:54 GMT

#727

CountDropula is appearing scummy and what not during D1...

On August 04 2012 08:19 CountDropula wrote:

Show nested quote +

Zephirdd's change from one unfounded vote to another tells me that

1. He doesn't care who is lynched
2. He doesn't feel comfortable dealing with pressure, so he fires back on jinglehell counterproductively.

Show nested quote +

Another example of an unsubstantiated position-taking. After a legit response from toad, another switch.
He sounds way too meek in the latter quote.

Any objections/further evidence backed by specific evidence? Cause I'm leaning toward voting zephirdd.

His first post. Starts off with saying that Zephs behavior could be explained by two ways, both which are to some degree anti-town moves. Yet he ignores that Jingle's reason to FoS him was very weak. Zephird's vote on prphlz was clearly a joke move, and there wasn't a reastic chance for someone to get bandwagoned for that, especially not in such a big game. The most resonable explanation for him voting Jingle was to put pressure on him after putting up such a weak FoS on him. Dropula completely ignored this, which would imply that he is making Zephird look worse than he actually did.

Changing your opinion is not necesarly a scum trait. He is testing the waters here. Wants to hear everybody elses thought's on Zephird. He is leaning towards voting him. He does however end up not. Why? In worst case you could simply unvote him, no harm done. Note the timing of the post as well, right when the Zephird shit-storm is at it's peak.

On August 04 2012 10:16 CountDropula wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 04 2012 08:59 Zephirdd wrote:

On August 04 2012 08:19 CountDropula wrote:

On August 03 2012 10:41 Zephirdd wrote:

On August 03 2012 10:36 JingleHell wrote:

On August 03 2012 10:34 prplhz wrote:
And we're off.

This is a 23 player game and I will not be able to handle it if there is a 130 page spamfest between a couple of people before night1. Seriously, condense your god damn posting. That said, there's also a couple of new/newer people on the list. You guys remember to post your thoughts and stuff on the game. No one here bites.

Do you bite if we ask nicely?

Zephirdd, don't you think there's danger of an early bandwagon voting with no cause like that? It's hard to defend yourself against a vote for no reason.

FoS Zephirdd

What.

If you really think an early bandwagon would come from a vote like that, then you are silly. He doesn't even have to defend himself against non-existant accusations.

##unvote
##vote JingleHell

On August 03 2012 20:02 Zephirdd wrote:
Masoned players should claim IMO.
masons themselves shouldn't unless that would save his life.

toad, why improvise? Are you feeling some kind of pressure that stops you from making a decent post?

On August 03 2012 20:27 Zephirdd wrote:
What you said makes sense. Mason'd people shouldnt claim :s

wbg mason does sound scary too

I just noticed this gem. Finally that paid off.

Let me explain it to you. It was 5min into the game. I didn't even bother casting those votes on the voting thread. Why? Because they didn't matter, and I'd change them later anyway. It's not that I don't care, it's just that by creating a stupid vote, you take reactions from people. People like you, who is trying to take something as silly as that as an excuse to vote me, when in fact there is nothing there that makes me scum.

I'm not afraid of having opinions change, as no town should be. My opinions did change quickly - and that's pretty damn common for a town player.

You are creating bullshit reasoning to jump into the wagon easily. Nice first post scum.

##unvote (talismania)
##vote CountDropula

Your burst of emotion is suspicious. If your play in the first 5 min paid off, why are you continuing the same behavior in the very response where you out it to the thread? Isn't it over?

You never mentioned my second point in your response.

I'm not the only one who is suspicious of you, but I don't know about a bandwagon. Just give everyone some concrete defense, we will determine that you are green, and this won't take up any more time.

Second post. His vote against Jingle was NOT the same thing as his vote against prphlz. Also, I'm not sure what he means by never mentioning his second point but I really can't find anything Zephird didn't answer in his post. Still throwing shit at Zephird for things he is not responsible for.

He then does some super back and forth vote jumoing without explaining himslef.
1.

On August 05 2012 03:16 CountDropula wrote:
I really think the most important issue for us right now is getting people active. Were giving mafia too much space to hide.
Nevertheless, I'm voting wbg right now though that can change.
For sure watching zeph though, but I need a better case.

On August 05 2012 03:24 CountDropula wrote:
Vote: Wherebugsgo

2. just 1 1/2 hour later, without any reason what so ever.

On August 05 2012 04:42 CountDropula wrote:
##Unvote: Wherebugsgo

##vote: Talismania

3. Still no reason.

On August 05 2012 08:48 CountDropula wrote:
##unvote: Talismania
##vote:prplhz

4. When BKE confronts him with this hillarious voteing pattern, he respondes with:

On August 05 2012 16:08 CountDropula wrote:

Show nested quote +

I felt my votes on Talismania and wbg were too based on cherry picking and jumping the gun. The reason I didn't vote for zephirdd even though I had only mentioned him is that I'd like to back up my suspicions of him more thoroughly. Did not mason. Hope that helps.

Gives some really weak reason for his vote/unvote on Talis/WBG. Says that the evidence for voting Zeph was too slim yet he was able to vote prphlz without any reason what so ever.

Dropula, unless you give some really good response I will make sure to get you lynched tomorrow.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 05 2012 15:39 GMT

#736

On August 05 2012 23:28 CountDropula wrote:
Not a smurf, I'm new.

Changing votes like that was a mistake. Honestly i was too hasty, and that's it.
Made a mistake, but is it really that suspicious?

Yes, it absolutely does not make any sense from a town point of view to do that. And still, we don't even know who you are suspicious of. TBH, the only reason I'm not convinced you are scum is the fact that you scum team should've told you to stop this nonesense a long time ago.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 05 2012 16:20 GMT

#741

On August 06 2012 01:13 grush57 wrote:
Solstice, my man.

Lol, care to post something usefull?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 05 2012 20:37 GMT

#792

Okay, kinda changed my mind and I'm actually starting to like the kill-grush plan. It's impossible to get a read in him anyway if he is going to play like this. Also, a big bonus is that WBG should be somewhat confirmed town if he flips scum.

As for Dropula, his only defense against all of my suspicion was that he was inexperienced and that it was all a mistake. This can be explained in 2 ways.
1. He is inexperienced.
2. He is scum.
If he is town he will most likely be left by scum unless he improves his play by an miraculously amount. If he is scum... Then he is scum.

For all Vigis, I hope you shot these guys tonight, as lynching them tomorrow will not really generate any discussion if they keep on playing like they've done so far.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 05 2012 21:13 GMT

#797

On August 06 2012 05:56 CountDropula wrote:

Show nested quote +

Which explanation do you like best? Inexperience or scum?

Lolwut.

Well, since I want to lynch you I'd much rather prefer you to be scum : ). You aren't helping town at all atm. If the only defense you have is the noob card then you must die. Preferably sooner than later. Unless you do some actual scum hunting, which it doesn't look like you are trying to. If you do not get shot tonight you will have 48 hours to convince me and everyone else why you shouldn't be the one to be lynched * hint * make some analysis * hint *.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 05 2012 21:17 GMT

#798

On August 06 2012 06:09 grush57 wrote:
Wait till tommorow, everything will be explained.

Why? There is a decent chance you will get shot tonight IMO and if you are withholding info there is a chance we will never know what you were going to say. If you are mason/masoned you should 100% claim right now.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 05 2012 22:29 GMT

#801

On August 06 2012 07:18 CountDropula wrote:

Show nested quote +

U mad?

U scum?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 06 2012 00:13 GMT

#807

Lurker is a very broad term. A player like Xsebt I would highly recommend not to vigi kill, while his filter is empty enough, he does at least try to make a post and we will be able to judge him later on. However grush or Dropula I'm 100% okay with getting shot. I looked through some of grush older games and he does indeed just do this no matter what alignment he is. The way I see it we have about 5/21~24% chance of him flipping scum. These are not good odds. But arguing that shooting grush tonight because he has a 76% of flipping town is stupid. Why? Because you are then Ignoring the fact that once we get to lategame with him we are in trouble as there is simply no way scum would ever decide to NK grush unless he is confirmed blue. Our chances of getting a proper read on grush not increase as the game goes on. Really. If grush actually wanted to play this game the way it was supposed to, he would've done that a long time ago.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 06 2012 00:59 GMT

#812

On August 06 2012 09:56 slOosh wrote:

Show nested quote +

Not only did I not argue for this at all, but the statement itself is very foolish. Vigs take note.

Never claimed you did either. Just explained why I think shooting grush tonight is a good thing.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 06 2012 01:03 GMT

#817

-.-. Did grush not mason someone?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 06 2012 20:02 GMT

#885

Well if scum havn't used their masons, they probebly won't use them for the rest of the game. If we would suddenly have 5 players being masoned then there is obviously at least one scum among those masons or someone who fakeclaims getting masoned. This is why you should claim masoned.

But it's quite unlikely that someone didn't use their mason power D1 tbh.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 08:18 GMT

#923

I'm convinced that Dropula is town now. His case against Zeph is the most insane thing I've ever read. All it's based on is the META WIFOM-argument that Zephird got more mad this game than his last game. And even that is a very weak arguments because he is yet to find a situation which is similiar to the one in this game. Unless he is a smurf of some sort and this actually is his first game there is noway he would be playing like this as scum. His team mates would've told him to stop long ago. The way he also pulled up so many suspicious posts on D1 and then responded with ''well, I'm noob'' and then later on says ''HAHA, it was all part of my plan'' doesn't make sense at all.

To Dropula: Your case is the most shittiest shit I've read in a long time. Stop it. Your flowing the thread with useless text.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 09:43 GMT

#925

On August 07 2012 18:02 s0Lstice wrote:
agree Lazer

who do you want to lynch today?

Well, my n1 scum read turned up to be probebly town so I had to reread a bit first.

My top scum read is VE. Unless I'm misstaken he is considered vet or at least semi-vet, no? Yet I feel like all his attempts to hunt scum is aiming to hit weak plays rather than scum plays. He is chasing Erandorr for picking on WBG with poor logic. He went after Talis for the way he he is '''role fishing''(even tho OP says every character can be any algnment) yet ignoring all the other things he had posted at that point. He also went after Zeph when the shit storm around him was at it's peak. Note that he is always picking the ones who is under most pressure, while this is not necessarily is a scum trait, it's something to consider.

I don't know anything about his meta TBH, but unless he is always aiming to kill weak players under heavy pressure(Lol...), I'd say this is a very scummy behavior.

##Vote: VE

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 10:54 GMT

#928

Toad, what do you think about VE? or anyone else who you suspect to be scum for that matter?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 11:18 GMT

#931

On August 07 2012 19:59 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

I consider it highly unlikely that two out of VE, WBG and Eran are mafia right now. That being said I still consider WBG the scummiest out of those 3 which makes both VE and Eran town besided having a null-read on VE and a town read on Eran so far myself.

So unless we're lynching WBG I'm not willing to lynch into a vet today.

It doesn't seem very unlikely with a WBG lynch atm so who do you want to lynch then? Because my impression of this post is that you have other scum reads than WBG atm.

Also why a null tell on VE? Do you not agree with the suspicion on him? I did do some research on one of his older games(Mini mafia II, he played townie). While he was whish washy which eventually got him lynched D2, his reads were very good. Out of the 4 people he suspected at the end that day, 3 of them were scum. He was basing his reads on whether or not someone seemed scummy, rather than if their logic was flawed.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 11:19 GMT

#932

EBWOP: missed your most recent post, although that doesn't really change anything.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 11:45 GMT

#935

On August 07 2012 20:34 Toadesstern wrote:
Honestly I'd rather lynch into Hassy right now and give us some time to figure out this triangle of bullshit: WBG, VE and Eran

Whaaat? Hassy, the guy with 4 posts on his neck? The only thing he posted of substance is his flawed read and vote on WBG. I agree with that this is not a town move but he has posted far to little for me to determine whether those posts are becuause he is scum or because he isn't playing well.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 11:46 GMT

#936

EBWOP: I also think he would be in risk of getting modkilled/replaced for his inactivity.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 12:03 GMT

#938

On August 07 2012 20:52 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

I was masoned with him and he was talkign with me a lot. So I know he did that on purpose for some reason. Just check out the timesstamps of our logs.
He may have missed the first day because he only masoned me on the 2nd day of the game but he still was talking a lot in sykpe.
I don't know if that stuff had a lot of thought behind it but he definitly had his opinions on things that were going on.
Remember the prplhz lynch yesterday? When I told him that prplhz said he really meant what he said about glasse he instantly said "WAT? I thought that was a joke" or something along those lines. So he at least thought things through and evalutated wether or not some people are still trolling around or already posting something with actual content, which is something that is beyond "just reading the thread".

He could have easily posted something, in fact when he did I pushed him into posting, but he chose not to for some reason and I consider that weird.
Combine that with what I said about the logs when I posted them and I consider him scummy.

But I agree, it's a weak read.

Lol, missed that he masoned you. Need to read the logs.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 12:27 GMT

#939

Hmm, I must say Hassy doesn't look very good either. In the logs he often avoided taking any hard stances and was really neutral about alot of things. But still I think VE lynch > hassy lynch.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 17:26 GMT

#960

On August 08 2012 00:48 MrZentor wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yes, any character can be any alignment, but I think it is safe to assume that most characters are matched with the role that is similar to their personalities. (Think of it as a kind of DT check: just like a DT check isn't certain because of millers and godfathers, you can't be certain of what somebody's alignment is from their character, because of what is stated in the OP, but it makes to more likely for the person to be that character's alignment.)

While this may be true, it may just as well be false. We cannot possibly know, and for all that's worth I will not lynch into someone based upon WIFOM. Because that's what it is to lynch someone based on their name.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 17:32 GMT

#962

EBWOP: I'm not saying Talis is town, but the reason VE was after him at the start absolutely hillarious. Tbh I have talis as a small scum read for his quite non commital play + how he outed like 5 players as town just some hours into the game(me incleded, and I only had like 2 shitty posts at that time.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 18:28 GMT

#977

On August 08 2012 03:25 JingleHell wrote:
Didn't I get chastised just recently for pointing out possible links before flips happened?

Ignoring that, you're talking about lynching someone just to see how they flip to try and establish a correlation that only has meaning under intense WIFOM.

Lolwat. Who are you talking to bro?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 18:32 GMT

#979

On August 08 2012 03:30 JingleHell wrote:

Show nested quote +

Read half a page and figure it out, "bro". Don't go trying to start shit with me because you're still pissed you couldn't get me modkilled for lynching scum when you wanted to ignore the confirmed DT's investigation as townie.

Are you always like this? o.O

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 18:41 GMT

#982

Btw, what happend with MrZentor?

The only post in his very short filter that isn't discussing blues or talking useless shit is a small attack on Glasse. I think this post in it self was good, but there was no follow up at all. I know he was replaced but it's been almost 3 days since that and still nothing usefull out of him. And he isn't really some sort of first time playing noob either.

##FoS: MrZentor

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 18:48 GMT

#986

On August 08 2012 03:39 JingleHell wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think I've demonstrated quite effectively that I'm only like "this" when people are being stupid.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066&currentpage=51#1005

There's you asking for me to be modkilled when I wouldn't change my vote off the guy the confirmed DT had as red.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066&currentpage=54#1062

There's him flipping.

So, who's unreasonable? You're just trying to start shit for no good reason.

If you want to talk about that game, do it in Pm's. Right now all you do is shit up the thread. I have never, I repeat, never insulted you as a person. Only your play. You are the one who keeps calling me names and what not for no reason but that I disagree with you. But once again take this in Pm's or w/e as town doesn't benefit at all from us fighting for no reason.

I simply asked you who you were refering to as there wasn't a quote or anything. Yes, I could've probebly come up with the answer quite easily myself(Toad) but I was lazy. However, you just could've answered me just as well. But yet you respond with this. How is it helping us in any way?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 20:32 GMT

#1003

On August 08 2012 05:07 VisceraEyes wrote:
I can get behind a bioSC/synstyr/MrZentor lurker lynch today if I'm the alternative - but I prefer to see Erandorr walk.

Bugs, you say a hallmark of Erandorr's scum play is his laziness. Can I ask what amount of energy it takes to bullshit with someone you were gonna bullshit with anyway playing DotA or something?

+ Show Spoiler +

Also I miss you on LoL - I get sick of people raging when I feed. You just took it like a champ.

Well, as it doesn't seem like your about to get lynched I may need to rethink who I want to lynch. I'm okay MrZentor lynch, the other two have not posted in 3/4 days and is in danger of getting modkilled/replaced anyways. If they in danger of flipping, why bother lynch them?

Erandorr just seem like a crazy townie to me. I'm not keen on voting him.

Will Synstyr and BioSC be modkilled replaced?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 20:55 GMT

#1016

On August 08 2012 05:40 MrZentor wrote:

Show nested quote +

Oh, you want to lynch me because I'm a active lurker?

-.-

Wtf, yes.

You obviously have the time to answer questions like this fast. You were also fast to talk about this blue thingy just some hours back. But yet you have only made 1(!!!) attempt to find scum and you don't even follow it up. Can you please explain these actions from a town PoV? Do you really think it's more important to talk useless shit about blues than hunting scum?

##Unvote
##Vote: MrZentor

Can someone give me a reason why we shouldn't lynch Zentor atm?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 20:56 GMT

#1017

EBWOP: ninjad, although his new post was shit too. He is not even saying that VE or me is scum. Just that we are suspicious. And he doesn't even argue why I am suspicious.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 21:00 GMT

#1020

On August 08 2012 05:58 MrZentor wrote:
Oh, I'm sorry that you couldn't see what I was implying.

Let me put it for you in nice, big letters.

SECRET AGENDA --> SCUM

SUSPICIOUS--> LIKELY SCUM

Cool, why am I suspicious?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 21:11 GMT

#1022

On August 08 2012 06:08 MrZentor wrote:
If somebody called me suspicious and I were town, I would just ignore them until they gave some reasoning for their conclusion.

If somebody called me suspicious and I were scum, I would be worried about it, so I would try to get them to explain their reasoning as soon as possible, so I would have more time to fabricate excuses.

Like what you just did.

Wow, so I just activated your trap card? Also isn't it funny that your logic makes me look scummy and you townie? what a coincidence!

Also, isn't it funny that MrZentor posts almost nothing up to this point and then just when he gets pressured he gets super serious and everything. Let's look at this:

MrZentor gets under pressure: Doesn't care about the game which is why he lurked.

MrZentor gets under pressure: His lurk-plan is spoiled.

Which of the above situations would MrZentor react in the way he did? If he didn't give a shit up to this point, why would he do so now?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 21:11 GMT

#1023

EBWOP: Okay, not super serious, but he have effectivly doubbled his post count in like 15 minutes...

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 21:25 GMT

#1029

On August 08 2012 06:15 talismania wrote:
lazer stay on target. we only get one lynch. If you still think VE is scum, stay on VE.

toad, I wish I could convince you. I think we might both be right, actually. I still can't shake the feeling that wbg is just fucking around, pretending like he didn't notice sloosh was killed etc. But I'm not ready to pull the trigger on that yet.

VE you never answered why you picked the lurkers you said you would be comfortable lynching out of the total pool of lurkers... so why those three?

I can change my vote if MrZentor isn't a contender, but right now I think he is the most scummiest. Take a look at his filter please. Do you not agree with me?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 21:26 GMT

#1031

On August 08 2012 06:13 MrZentor wrote:
Lazermonkey, you should read some of my past games.

I work best under pressure, because that's what I'm used to.

People always try to get me lynched.

Do you really play like this as town? Trying to look scum untill someone puts a vote on you?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 21:40 GMT

#1037

On August 08 2012 06:28 talismania wrote:
ah sorry. I would argue that they are all around the same level of interest to be honest.

Whatever happened to your thoughts on xsebt and zephirdd? You said in PMs you were going to look into them yesterday.

Pms? I was never masoned/mason XD.

Don't think I said that I was to look into zephird yesterday and it's kinda low priority atm due to the amount of people already having accusations against them.

I'd like to save eventual Xsebt lynch for some other day. He is at least posting stands and reads, although little. We will hopefully be able to judge him for more than his >1 page filter later.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 21:45 GMT

#1038

On August 08 2012 06:31 strongandbig wrote:
MrZentor is like grush, but only barely less so.

He is no help to any town of which he is part and it's inexplicable why he continues to play the way he does, but at least he occasionally tries a little bit which grush doesn't seem to

anyway guys i'm so tired and this deadline is bullshit. We should be killing VE today. He's barely even putting in the effort to defend himself, just the minimum to maybe shift the lynch onto someone else.

I still hold to the reasons I posted earlier why I think he's scum.

Fair enough. He is still a scum read for me tho, but since it seems very unlikely that he is going to get lyched...

##Unvote
##Vote: VE

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 22:47 GMT

#1048

From voting thread:
##Unvote: VE

##Vote: Erandorr

MrZentor, what's up with you? Is VE not scum anymore? o.O

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 23:07 GMT

#1056

On August 08 2012 08:04 MrZentor wrote:
I don't know whether it's more likely that Erandorr or VE is mafia.

Meh.

You are free to vote anyone at the moment. But why would you sneak with it like you are doing right now? Also without any reason what so ever. If VE flips scum you will be so dead. So dead.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 23:10 GMT

#1058

On August 08 2012 08:09 MrZentor wrote:
Rofl, like you could sneak a vote.

Don't be silly.

Okay, that was fucking stupid of me, scartch it : P. Still think you are scum tho.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 07 2012 23:16 GMT

#1060

WBG: If you are still there, what are your scum reads outside of the lurkers? Also, why would you vote Xsebt in this situation? Even if he for some reason would be your n1 scum read it's quite clear that he will not be lynched today.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 08 2012 08:49 GMT

#1119

Just woke up. This sucked -.-.

Just a quick thought for now, wouldn't it be good to vigi kill Glasse, Zentor or Dropula? Assuming there are vigis left. These guys are obviously in no danger of getting modkilled but on the other hand they play bad all of them. And even though that might not necesarily mean that they are scum because they play bad both as scum and as town, we will need to kill them sooner or later if they are scum. And it doesn't seem like we are going to get any wiser the longer the game goes on if they are playing like this.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 08 2012 19:00 GMT

#1148

On August 08 2012 23:50 talismania wrote:
@Lazer Don't vig bad townies. Dumb at this point. Vig people you think are scum.

How do you know they are town_ Dropula is probebly a bad shot, as he is most likely town. However I feel both Glasse and Zentor have a decent chance of flipping scum. And IF they are scum, we need to lynch them sooner or later anyways.

However, I think the best shot atm would be VE or Hassy as even though one of them flips town it would almost guarante that the other one is scum. Jingle is probebly not scum, partly because I feel it's unlikely that scum would let him have that role, partly because of his activity in the mason logs. Toad feels town, at least for now. So the only real possibility where both VE and Hassy could be town(assuming Jingle is town here) is if scum only got 1 mason and that mason is Toad. But this is a stretch.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 08 2012 19:00 GMT

#1149

EBWOP: The _ should be a .

In case you didn't understand XD

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 08 2012 19:01 GMT

#1150

EBWOP: LOL I'm stupid. It should be a ?

....

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 18:57 GMT

#1239

Havn't been posting in some time...

Lol, I'm so puzzled by Dropula. Usually when newbies are playing, they go from being completely irrantional to somewhat understandable. Dropula did the opposite. He started off by making some reads and a cases altough they were all very weak. Then he goes completly crazy. wtf.

I have a bad bad feeling that Dropula is a smurf, which would kinda make sense. He started of by playing the noob card but wasn't too bad untill most people had him as a town read(myself including) at which points he went crazy.

I also agree with Jingle that Dropulas alignment tells us absolutely nothing about Zephird alignment. They could very well both be town as well as both being scum.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 19:17 GMT

#1242

On August 10 2012 04:07 Hopeless1der wrote:
I would pretty much say hes absolutely a smurf. Every one of his posts are in this game. It also seems like this puppet master routine was planned, but I can't make heads or tails of his affiliation based on that nonsense. His shitty tunnelling on the other hand is very suspicious and I think that the tunnelling is the core of the case against him. Still, I find VE's latest post/case to be worse than what Dropula has done so far. Dropula will be my second choice of lynch if my case against VE doesn't get any more support.

My thoughts exactly, although I have told IRL friends to try mafia on TL and they havn't been posting anything but in the mafia forums AFAIK. So this it's kinda WIFOM to say that he is a smurf but if he is a smurf he is 101% scum.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 19:19 GMT

#1244

On August 10 2012 04:08 JingleHell wrote:
And if me and Lazer can agree about someone without screaming at eachother, it might just be a bad sign...

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 19:26 GMT

#1246

On August 10 2012 04:25 talismania wrote:
He claims to be new::

Show nested quote +

Ya, I know. But you are allowed to lie about being a smurf, right?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 19:28 GMT

#1250

Yes, that's was what I was assuming thus I was puzzled to why Talis wrote what he wrote.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 19:37 GMT

#1254

On August 10 2012 04:28 talismania wrote:

Show nested quote +

huh. well at least this more or less proves that you're town unless you're way craftier than I remember.

How does this prove that Toad is town? Wouldn't this just mean that his ''source'' is town and you are scum or the other way around? I guess it could mean that both you and the other guy are both town if you are a miller.

But how does this mean Toad is town? It's very possible that the guy just told Toad to say he got a red check on you in the thread. This way he wouldn't out himself as DT but still let us know that he got a red check. As there really isn't a reason for town not to out this in the thread Toad is more or less forced to do that no matter what alignment he is.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 19:39 GMT

#1255

On August 10 2012 04:34 Toadesstern wrote:
Smurfs never tell people who they are... That's the purpose of a smurf.

Eventually people figure them out or they screw up big time themselves when posting with their origninal account but smurfs lie about wether or not they are a smurf for obvious reasons.

He is 99% a smurf, although I don't agree that he has to be mafia, nor do I think it is likely for him to flip mafia. Though with bugs flipping green the chances increase I guess..

Well I guess the purpose with being a smurf is to avoid people judging you by your meta. Why would someone smurf and then troll the thread to death if he got town? It doesn't make sense. But I guess he could be doing it just to fuck with everyone...

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 19:51 GMT

#1259

On August 10 2012 04:45 talismania wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well the way I see it, I am town. If toad were scum, he would know I'm town. There'd be no reason for him to go mum like this in that case. I mean it's like a free mislynch.

A bit of an academic point though everything else about toad's play screams town as well.

I don't get this. If Toad is scum and you are town and we lynch you and you flip town, then we know that the guy is scum unless you flip miller. How will Toad look bad for that?

Yhea, I'm also thinking Toad is town. At least atm.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 20:02 GMT

#1263

On August 10 2012 04:54 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

or because they're so good at playing that they usually get shot d1 and don't want to get shot.

The really good vets do that all the time, either by playing "weird" on purpose or by smurfing.

Foolishness for example is someone who preferes not to smurf, proceeds to post in a way that it's really hard to tell wether he's town or mafia, so he won't get shot as town and dishes out a list on d3 that is pretty much 100% correct. He's not trolling but he's making himself a bad target for mafia to shoot that way.
People like Palmar, Kita, Greymist and Sandroba (I think he's either kita or Greymist) like to smurf although it comes down to the same thing. Greymist and Kita are two guys who love "roleplaying" so that's why I'm mentioned those two.

Well it still doesn't make sense that he is BOTH smurfing and playing wierd. I could get it if he was doing one or the other but both at the same time just isn't town at all.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 21:28 GMT

#1269

On August 10 2012 05:02 Lazermonkey wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well it still doesn't make sense that he is BOTH smurfing and playing wierd. I could get it if he was doing one or the other but both at the same time just isn't town at all.

Actually, if Dropula is the DT everything would suddenly make sense once again... However If your guy is someone else then it's another thing.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 22:21 GMT

#1278

On August 10 2012 07:06 Hopeless1der wrote:
So now what, you hold the logs until tomorrow, or give them out so we can make our reads on the claim and let the scum WIFOM the shot vs the medic(s)?

IMO Toad should absolutely not out the guy. If we do, even if we lynch talis and he flips scum, our DT will die. Maybe he could give out the logs but without name? If Toad really feel that the person to claim DT is scum, then he should consider outing him and lynching him instead.

The one advantage we have with outing the guy(other than knowing who we are trusting...)is that we will have a confirmed DT if Tallis flips You could argue that he is a good medic target but we don't even know if we have a medic which makes it risky. Also scum could just perma RB the guy if they want too as well, assuming Tallis isn't the scum RB.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 09 2012 22:45 GMT

#1284

On August 10 2012 07:40 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

I still can't tell if the guy is mafia or if it's talis.

I found his breadcrumb all right. I see what he was doing now and it's all fine but mafia could set that kind of stuff up as well.
Again, I posted it in an instant without thinking about it. Should not have posted it and I'm going to ignore it now that I can't make out which of the two guys is the mafia and who's faking.

I hope the rest of you does the same and just proceeds as if I never said a thing. kk thx bye :3

Why should we ignore it? We are 99,9% guranteed to get a mafia, either this day or the next. The only scenario we don't get a mafia is if Tallis is miller but that is highly unlikely.

I'm going to bed now. But before that.

##Vote: talismania

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 05:48 GMT

#1380

Talis needs to die. We cannot judge him by his defense. There are two possible explanation for his play here.
1) He is miller.
2) He is scum but wants to act as miller as it's the only way he might survive.

Out of these two 2 is much more likely than 1. So unless you had a very convincing town read to start with, you should vote him.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 15:43 GMT

#1391

On August 11 2012 00:08 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

well but BC is most likely not going to confirm a thing. Right now what we have is a public claim. Believe it or not but the moment BC comes in this thread and confirms it that's a modconfirmed red DT check on someone.

He can't do that so again, take from it what you want. I can't prove a thing but you wanted me to tell you anyways. BC is most likely going to act with the next night-post or maybe even not before postgame, who knows.

We're best to assume there's not going to be a word from BC about this.

Well xsebt is confirmed DT anyway. There is no fucking way that he guessed both your and Talismanias name unless all three of you are scum. Or if he hacked BC account... But that is modkill material as well I guess : D.

I do by no means think that Xsebt did the right thing but ignoring it would be silly as well. Like really silly. We must lynch Talis today. The only reason for someone not to vote him is if you actually got a solid town read on him. If you are even the slightest unsure of his alignment or even think he is suspicious you SHOULD vote him. NAO! The only way we don't get a scum today is if Talis would flip miller and that is quite unlikely.

Also, Talis posting and begging for not getting lynched since the DT claim means nothing, like I've already said. It's not like scum would be like ''Ow, GG guys you got me''. He is obviously trying to look like a miller no matter what alignment he is.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 20:25 GMT

#1445

Okay, fuck this. We must lynch Talismania today!

I am not going to analyse Talismanias behavior before the red claim as that has already been done. SlOosh had concerns with the very little actual scum hunting Talis did and VE also posted a semi big case on him a while back. I recomend you guys to read these things again. I also belive there was one more case on Talismania, although I don't remember who posted it. These are both points and I've been somewhat suspicious of him for a while. However, he wasn't my highest scum read untill the read check. While you could argue that it is good or not good to be lynching someone just because of a redcheck( Hi Jingle, I know you love me and I love you! : DDD)Talis play have been suspicious.

I'm going to analyse some of his play after the DT claim. If one were in Talis postition and knew you were miller what would you do? Probebly say that you were miller which Talis is doing but also post all of your reads and the reasoning for them. Because even if you get lynched which is quite likely everyone will at least know that they can trust your reads to 100%. Talis have spend alot of time saying that he is miller, why he should be godfather if he was scum etc and very little if any time to dicuss his reads. He says that Toad is probebly town but who does he think is scum?

On August 10 2012 10:03 talismania wrote:
Bottom line:

xsebt - DT
talismania - miller
toad - town mason
jinglehell - town mason
VE - scum mason
hassybaby - scum mason (?)
BKE - scum goon
Count Dropula - scum godfather (Sinensis smurf - has to be someone who played with zeph in NMM II)
hier - scum goon

I think I know who the vig is as well but I won't say.

__________

I say we lynch VE and have xsebt check BKE. If neither comes up red, lynch me tomorrow.

So he posts his lists of scum. No explaination, no reason just the 5 he thinks are scum. And look! He is posting VE who was under the heaviest pressure at that moment, however he had posted a long case on him earlier so no real contribution here- Not a very bold claim.

On August 10 2012 10:41 talismania wrote:

Show nested quote +

Does this smell incredibly off to anyone else? Like I can't logically put my finger on it but my brain is screaming at me that this is a scumslip or something. Like, if he's saying that xsebt is going to flip town DT, then why does he state after that that I assume I'm a miller? What else do I assume in that case? Like, is he trying to say that I am incorrectly assuming that I'm a miller, and therefore that xsebt is scum? That's the only logical way to interpret those two sentences but I'm fairly sure that's not what he was getting at.

Look how flip floppy his accusations are! He is asking for everyone else's opinion and he seems very unsure of his accusations. Why would he be that? He just called Heir scum just moments ago. WIFOM obviously, but I guess this could be a way for him to try avoid getting voted by Heir at the same time trying to apear scum hunting.

On August 10 2012 10:54 talismania wrote:
Look if you guys feel you have to lynch me, then fine. You'll have one mislynch to give before you're at LYLO. That said I will keep fighting until the end because I honor my wincon.

Here's the list of roles in the game, for those who missed it earlier:

xsebt - DT
talismania - miller
toad - town mason
jinglehell - town mason
VisceraEyes - scum mason
hassybaby - scum mason
BroodKingEXE - scum goon
CountDropula - scum godfather
Hier - scum goon

If you follow that list, you will win. (Hopefully if I'm wrong I'm not TOO wrong).

Toad, they'll probably keep you alive because of how wrong you've been and likely will continue to be. If I can't convince you today then I hope you can swallow your pride and start fresh after I die.

Medics, protect xsebt.

Xsebt, check BKE first, then hier, then synystyr, then glasse.

Marvellosity, Jingle, maybe lazermonkey. You guys will have to be town leaders after I'm dead. Marv I know you're not invested in this game since you weren't in it at the beginning but please try to win it for us.

Long post, but what does he really say here? He already posted the scum reads(I know he says that as well...) and the rest of the post is like no contribution at all. Medic protects DT should goes without saying.

On August 10 2012 11:08 talismania wrote:

Show nested quote +

Eh you're the one I'm least sure about definitely. It's between you glasse and synystyr. Synystyr is up there with you since he continuously fails his activity standards and hasn't contributed much to the game. I'll rethink things after a break so that I can settle down and give my final reads out for people to follow once I'm dead and flipped.

On August 10 2012 11:10 talismania wrote:
@Hier Oh and for why I picked you over the other two - your filter has nothing substantial in it. You have taken no initiative. You also show signs of being an active lurker. You delurk rather quickly when your name comes up but otherwise stay silent. You are attentive to the events of the game without trying to become entangled in them yourself.

Only answers when called out by Heir. Also note that he is very unsure of his read on Heir.

On August 10 2012 13:23 talismania wrote:
Why I'm town:

(1) Why am I a goon?

Mafia got to pick their own roles. Look at the players left in this game. Imagine that I am scum. What other three players in this game, on my scum team, would end up with mason (assuming there are two scum masons) and godfather? Toad? VE? Toad obviously isn't scum with me. Neither is VE. Hassy? The only thing Hassy has done is point out suspicious things I've done. So what - GF goes to a lurky new guy over me? I love the mason role. I don't know for sure if I would have taken it as scum because it is kind of fraught with peril but I for sure would have taken GF over goon and who else in this game could claim as much?

Why, if I'm a goon, do behave like this? So actively, playing exactly to my town meta. Why do I even talk about setup shit if I'm a goon lol. As GF, sure. But goon? No way.

(2) Who the hell are my scumbuddies?

No scum have died yet. Let's look at the remaining players. I'll do this off the top of my head:

VE - wants me lynched. I want him lynched.
toad - very publicly vacillated on me. Can't be my scumbuddy or he doesn't bring up this whole stink.
zephirdd - called me scum D1. Called me scum N2 (with VE for some reason).
Hassybaby - only thing he's talked about is my setup talk and cast suspicion thereon. And I've been very public about not minding him getting lynched either.
xsebt - obviously not my scumbuddy
count dropula - wants me dead. Voted me D1 before changing, has promoted me to scum-marionette.
synystyr - wants me lynched.
lazer - no problem voting for me today.

Ok that's all I remember off the top of my head let's look at the remaining filters

hopeless1der - voted me day 1
hier - has called me scum, wanted to lynch me or erandorr D2
BKE - no real stance on me, but I want him checked by the DT and lynched.
jinglehell - used to think I was town
glasse - no real stance on me that I see.
marv - said I was town.

Clearly from this the only conclusion is that my whole scum strategy is to bus all my teammates and get bussed by them. I've done that before, or tried to, in I can't believe it's not themed mini (filter here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147&user=32774 ). Compare the activity in those two filters. What happened when I was under duress? I gave up and waited to be lynched. Is that what I'm doing now? This leads us to the next point:

(3) My Meta

I like playing town.

I dislike playing scum.

When I'm town I'm active, when I'm scum I'm inactive. The only scum game I've tried in was Pick Your Poison and I know I'm playing way more actively and aggressively than I ever did in that game (filter here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340727&user=32774 ). Other mafia game filters: BangBang2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340480&user=32774.

Compare those to SSB64: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=348072&user=32774 and Bastard 2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=343892&user=32774

Especially read SSB64. I was town and was mislynched. Toad you should know this better than anyone. Did I give up? Did I ever stop trying? No. I knew I was the only townie who had the game figured out at that point, and I knew it was my job to convince the other townies. They stubbornly refused to listen and I ended up getting lynched, shot, and we lost the game. Of course I was culpable to some degree. How did I get in trouble that game? Toad you know the answer - I speculated (correctly, by the way) about the nature of the setup. Contrast that with I Can't Believe It's Not Themed where I gave up as fast as I could as mafia getting lynched (Mattchew and Dropbear were my scumbuddies for those reading the filter).

(4) N2 Night kills

Why do I, as scum, kill solstice and strongandbig? Both of them were on the same page as I when it came to VE. If I'm scum, then clearly a major part of my plan is to get VE lynched. Why do I make that intentionally harder on myself? I don't. I kill toad in that situation, 100% of the time. I also kill the person whom I believe is the vigilante. Scum picked those two because it suited their purposes (reduced focus on VE) plus they thought it would be funny if they kept picking the targets that I said should be defended. As far as N1 goes, I agree and would have double-stacked sloosh, assuming that's what happened and gambled on there only being one medic or one of them deciding not to protect him.

(5) Why the hell do I do this?

Why am I convinced Xsebt is town DT, instead of scum? Why aren't I arguing against him? Why, instead, did I go out of my way to get toad to post exactly what was in those PMs, because I knew that if it said "Henry Francais" instead of "Henry Francis" then he had to be a DT as only I and BC were privy to that spelling in my PM. I was asking for this very early on today: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&currentpage=62#1229

_________________

At the end of the day, what is more likely?:

--That I'm a crazy scum who chose goon over godfather, set out to bus all my teammates or be bussed by them, stated who I would be killing every night just for the shits and even risked directing medic protection at who I picked, and have managed to play to my town meta better than I've ever done in my life. (Seriously people just count the number of pages in the filters).

--That I'm a townie miller.

Long post on why he must be miller.
Point 1 is purely based on WIFOM and is thus disregarded.
Point 2 is such bad logic from his side (assuming that he is miller...). For example you say that people who was suspicious or voted you on D1 or D2 can't be your scum mates. LOL. You weren't close to getting lynched neither D1 nor D2 so why bring that up? Also I don't really see any telling with people wanting to lynch you right know. If there is any time you would want to bus, wouldn't that be when you got a red check?
Point 3 is WIFOM once again.
Point 4 is WIFOM.
Point 5 is bad logic once again. It's not like you were the only reason for Toad to out Xsebt. Also arguing against someone who had ''guessed'' the name of Toads character correctly wouldn't look very good neither.

On August 10 2012 13:33 talismania wrote:
Ok I messed up earlier when I said there were 17 people alive. Apparently there's only 16 unless I've miscounted again:

1. Hassybaby
2. mrzentor
3. Toadesstern
4. visceraeyes
5. BroodKingEXE
6. talismania
7. lazermonkey
8. Hopeless1der
9. jinglehell
10. zephirdd
11. XsebT
12. Hier
13. Glasse
14. CountDropula
15. Marv
16. Synystyr

So right now it's 11 - 5

Assuming I'm mislynched, that puts us at 10 - 5, then 2 night kills, 8 - 5. That's essentially lylo. Mislynch and you have to pray for a medic save. That means every day a scum has to be lynched.

Upshot: lynch me, likely lose the game. Do what I say, have a fighting chance.

Fellow townies, please take this seriously. Ask me as many questions as you need to. Please take the time to check my meta. Please read my posts thoroughly. I will be as succinct and direct as possible.

Ya, we can count, even when you are lynched.

On August 11 2012 01:59 talismania wrote:
Let's talk about this game.

Scum: you guys know how good of a position you're in. You can win without losing a member.

Town: I don't think it's really set in for most of you how terrible of a position you're in. Let me explain it again.

Right now there are 11 town and 5 scum.

Here's what will probably happen: I'm lynched, jingle and marv are killed at night, toad is still completely wrong the next day and zephirdd gets lynched, GG flawless scum victory. The only real chance is if when I actually do flip miller toad (assuming he's town) actually realizes that he's just been completely wrong about everything in this game and genuinely re-evaluates the situation and sees that VE is the most obviously scummy person in this game. Sidenote: if this doesn't happen people need to look at toad more carefully because I can't imagine him being wrong for that long is weird even for his standards.

Alternate scenarios:

(1) I'm lynched and flip miller, jingle and marv are killed. 8 - 5, lylo. VE or BKE is finally lynched, lazer and toad killed. 6 - 4, lylo. The other of VE or BKE is lynched. 2 other townies killed. 4 - 3, lylo. Count Dropula or Hier gets lynched (depending on what xsebt says), then it will be 3 - 2 the next day. Then 2 - 1. So to say it again,

If I am lynched, town will be at lylo from now until they lose or lynch all five scum in a row*

*Of course, this is barring medic protects. However, the medics should be on xsebt. Scum may attempt to double stack on xsebt, gambling that there's only one medic too, which might reduce the NK. And of course, if there's still vig shots out there then that can accelerate or decelerate the game.

(2) I'm lynched and flip scum. VE and synystyr NK'd I guess? 9 - 4. Not a terrible position but not great either. One mislynch (say, zephirdd) puts it at 6 - 4 and right back to lylo. Also it won't happen because I'm not scum.

(3) VE or hassy gets lynched today and flips scum. 9 - 4 but people actually realize that I was right. I'll probably be NK'd but that's a tricky play for scum given that I do have a red check. If they leave me alive I'll be able to lead at least one other scum lynch, putting town in the advantage. This is the best case scenario. Too bad I don't think you'll be convinced.

What you say in this whole post is basically ''if you lynch me and I am a miller you are in big trouble''. We know that. But that isn't important. What is important is if you are a miller or not, not how bad position we will be left in if you were a miller.

On August 11 2012 02:27 talismania wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm fairly certain VE is scum. I think Dropula is the godfather as well. I know - a bit connectiony.

Zephirdd just doesn't fit with any model of scum play this game. We both played with him when he was traitor in Pick Your Power and I seem to recall a safer style of posting then, not as loose. In Pick Your Poison I was scum and he was town and I found him incredibly scummy and spent the whole game more or less plotting to get him mislynched. He just does things that people consider obvious scumtells as town. I think he's done that here.

I mean, scum aren't playing that great this game. They haven't built any good cases or actually convinced people. They instead pick up on the stupidest little things, like my discussion of setup, or zephirdd's list of people that hadn't posted in D1 and base their false suspicions on those.

Marv, assuming you're town, which I lean on you and BioSc but can't really prove, you should really dig into this game during the night phase. Read through it like you're scum, since you're quite good at scum, and discern the scum lynch pushes and plans. I think you will come to the same conclusion that I have, which is that VE is scum mason, and that count dropula's play is explained perfectly if he's a sinensis smurf (dropula attacks zephirdd based on zeph's meta in Normal Mini Mafia 2, claiming that he went and read zeph's past games. No one ever reads past games, especially not "new" players which is what dropula claims he is. Dropula is acting weird as fuck because he wants to draw DT checks because he's GF).

Once again, only when called out does he give out his reads. But now he at least gives out a few town reads, although all of them seems very vauge. He does at least explain that he thinks Dropula is GF.

He also recently posts a case on VE. We know he is suspicious of VE. And TBH, I had VE as my highest scum read before the red check on Talis. VE should get lynched if you flip miller Talis, although not very likely. Talis has spend shit loads of time after he got red checked to speak about setup, about blues and other stuff we don't really need to hear right now. The thing he should prioritize the most, reads, have only been done when he is called out for it, except for VE but he was already massivly suspicious of VE before so no chocker here.

TLDR;

KILL TALISMANIA!
KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 20:54 GMT

#1452

I can confirm Dropula being DT. I am Harry Crane.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 21:11 GMT

#1463

On August 11 2012 05:54 talismania wrote:
Format fail

Show nested quote +

On August 11 2012 05:53 talismania wrote:
Let me respond to this bit:

Point 1 is NOT wifom. It's the truth. There's no one in this game right now (marv doesn't count since he was originally BioSC) who would make a better GF choice than me, if I'm scum. To say otherwise is to suggest that I've played the entire game with the hope of being red-checked or something, and that that was the plan from pre-game, when role decisions were presumably made. Does that make sense to you?

Point 2 is just to show that there's no clear scum strategy involved in my play, or any of my interactions with anyone or their interactions with me.

Point 3 is absolutely NOT wifom. You can't wifom meta. I can't just turn on a switch that says "ok act like town". If I could, I would, you know, act like town when I'm scum. Read Bang Bang 2. Read Pick Your Poison. Read I Can't Believe It's not Themed. I don't play like town in those games, and I'm not town in those games. I'm sorry but I don't have the power to magically alter my meta. Very few people do.

Point 4 is not really wifom either. I don't kill the people who are helping with the mislynch I'm pushing if I'm scum.

On Point 5 you're sort of right. But the point remains that I don't put in the effort to get a confirmed DT in the game if I'm scum. That doesn't help my team.

__________

I guess bottom line you can always invent a reason for why anything I write could be written by scum. Why my meta could be different, why I could have wanted goon over godfather, why I've been acting like I have. But at the end of the day to put all of that together is to assume that the most complex answer is right. It never is. It's always the simplest explanation. And the simplest explanation is that I'm miller.

Point 1. If this isn't WIFOM I don't know what is. Your point is based on the fact that YOU say that YOU would be the best person to give GF if you were scum. Also I don't get what you mean by ''To say otherwise is to suggest that I've played the entire game with the hope of being red-checked or something'' if you wouldn't pick GF then you obviously wouldn't want to be red checked, eh?
Point 2. How does this show anything but that your logic in case you were miller would be super bad?
Point 3. How can you not control your own play? It's entirely possible that you would try to play away from your scum meta if you rolled scum in order to be considered less scummy.
Point 4. Well people are obviously killed for a reason but there are several reasons for someone to get killed. Also, you say that you wouldn't kill these people if you are scum then you have 4 scum buddies with personal opinions as well.

Yes there is always a reason. That's why you should concentrate on making reads rather than make WIFOMish reasons for why you are miller.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 21:12 GMT

#1467

On August 11 2012 06:05 JingleHell wrote:
I don't know what the fuck is going on here, but I think one of our DTs is a liar, and possibly using some scum info to pass it off. I mean, right now the role list sounds more like Conspiracy Theory mafia. I know it's nuts to WIFOM the host, but what the hell.

Either we believe this setup is absurd as hell, or we see how today's lynch goes and start looking at cases. I usually don't trust anyone, but starting now, I go into paranoia mode.

Well either both me and Dropula is scum or bot of us is town.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 21:14 GMT

#1469

So, do we lynch Zeph or Talis now? I'm okay with both :D

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 21:14 GMT

#1472

On August 11 2012 06:13 talismania wrote:
above directed at marv.

I'm miller for sure. If zeph is scum (which I doubt) then dropula is town which makes no sense. I think dropula and lazer just outed themselves.

Let's lynch Zeph and get two confirmed townies in the process then?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 21:15 GMT

#1473

Ninjad : D

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 21:22 GMT

#1484

Okay. Let's do this. I'm sorry to let you live for another 72 hours tho, Talis : (.

##Unvote
##Vote: Zephirdd

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 21:26 GMT

#1490

Funny that when Zeph flips scum, Talis the miller have been defending him all game long!

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 21:27 GMT

#1493

On August 11 2012 06:25 Hier wrote:
What if Lazer is town? What if potential scum CD picked 2 town players to pretend to have investigations on. How about we lynch Talis today, announce that we are protecting Xsebt with medics, and have him investigate VE. If CD survives the night, that means he is mafia. If he dies, then we get a DT flip, confirming his reads. We then get Xsebt's read on VE, who doesn't die in the night. Sounds good?

No, it can't be that way. He knew my name and I havn't said it in the thread.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 21:31 GMT

#1499

On August 11 2012 06:29 Hier wrote:

Show nested quote +

In that case you are both town, with him being DT, or you are both scum. In that case his reads are flipped, if he is lying.

Yes, that was what I and everyone else was saying -.-

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 21:36 GMT

#1509

On August 11 2012 06:34 talismania wrote:
Man it would be sick if zephirdd and dropula were scum together. Scum deserve to win in that case.

Then I also need to be scum.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 22:13 GMT

#1525

wtf heir you don't make any sense.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 10 2012 22:32 GMT

#1532

On August 11 2012 07:25 Hier wrote:

Show nested quote +

This isn't about the numbers. Zeph flips scum - that's it; CD and Lazer are permanently considered town. It becomes impossible to win as town. It's called bussing.

On the other hand CD thought Talis was mafia, yet with his ridiculously well timed claim he a) took votes off of Talis (why?) and b) exposed himself as a DT to get killed at night, when he could have given town a third read. Doesn't seem suspicious in the slightest?

When Zephirdd flips scum we lynch Talis tomorrow. It's likely that one of the DTs dies tonight so you can stay calm. He will flip DT. You really have nothing to lose.

Ow, I could still be a GF tho. So I guess I'm still not confirmed after Zephirdd lynch but w/e. You will have alot of time to decide whether or nor I am scum as I cannot possibly be lynched before D5.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 11 2012 08:23 GMT

#1577

If there aren't more than 2 DT then it probebly doesn't matter who you check today. 1 will get RB and 1 will most likely get double stacked. However I guess there are a possibilty that scum tries to luck shot one DT + someone else. In that case we just need to pray that the medic(s) chose the right person to protect.

Also, to use Talis WIFOM defense against him, if me, Zeph and Dropula were all scum and you are miller it means that instead of pulling the free misslynch today on you, we decided to fakeclaim DTs in order to buss our scum buddy who wasn't even clse to get lynched? You say it's for massive town cred but why would we do this today and not tomorrow...? Obviously this is by no means a proof of any thing but if Talis is allowed to defend himself with poor logic, so am I.

On August 11 2012 15:07 talismania wrote:
pps toad would you make a setup with 2 DTs, 2 millers and 5 redcheckable scum? Do you really think that's what's going on here is as simple as that there are two DTs with correct redchecks out there?

No, I don't think that. Tbh I think it's likely that we have more than 3 millers as well. But I don't think that you are a miller.

So long story short please ignore Talis untill D4 lynch. He knows he is about to get lynched and just want to fuck with us as much as possible before he dies. If he for some reason actually flips miller, we can start digging in what he have been saying.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 11 2012 21:22 GMT

#1600

On August 12 2012 06:14 talismania wrote:
Fun quotes from sinensis where he actually tells the truth but no one notices:

Show nested quote +

What do you think about that, lazermonkey? :-)

And to repost this from Hier because it needs to be seen because holy shit lol:

Show nested quote +

Seriously, what townie DT puts that line in there? There are tons of idioms in the english language that express the idea of something coming to the end or being finished. But he goes with "One step towards the bus stop for you..." with the reference I guess to zephirdd getting on bus out of town or something? It doesn't even make sense with his puppeteer act, if you still believe CD is a new eccentric player and not sinensis. Then you say "One step towards the curtain closing..." or something. "One step towards your swan song..." etc. And it doesn't fit at all with "One step towards a win for the audience" semantically, despite the phrasing indicating that the two lines are a couplet. Plus the suggestive ellipsis. I mean I don't know how to spell it out any more and maybe I don't need to. Just look at that lol.

Lol, talis. Just Lol.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 11 2012 21:44 GMT

#1602

Well, you called me and CD scum so you obviously aren't speaking the truth. I'm sorry but all your arguments are either not even arguements or based on the most insane WIFOM there is. There are no scum hunting here. Using arguments like yours could make everyone look scum. How you and Heir are able to use the fact that CD used the word ''buss'' as a reason for him to be scum IS BEYOND MY UNDERSTANDING. You aren't spending time scum hunting, you are shitting up the thread with shit. I am going to bed in just a moment but if people really feel like there is even a point in arguing against you then I can gladly do that tomorrow. Why am I convinced that I will survive untill tomorrow? Because shooting me is probebly the worst alternative of all remaining members of town(maybe not including some of the lurkers). If scum shoot me tonight, it's a benefit for town as you will be a dead guy when the lynch happends.

If your town I am litterly sad IRL because you don't make any sense what so ever. But you claim to be good as town so thus you must be scum by your own logic.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 12 2012 17:23 GMT

#1647

Lolwut, Talis was actually miller? Well that changes alot of things. I'm guessing that we have an infinite bullet Vigi as we've had 3 NKs two nights in a row and grush was probebly not a scum kill as well. We probebly don't got a medic unless it's Marv.

Probebly town
toadesstern: Me and Toad are either GF or scum. We cannot both be scum but we can both be town as well as one town one GF. I don't think he is scum but on the other hand people keep saying that he is hard to read and wouldn't that be the optimal person to give GF to? Still have a very hard time to belive that Toad would NOT push Talis if he was scum because it was essentially a free misslynch because he would know Talis is a miller. However, both s0lstice and WBG were suspicious of Toad before they died, which is a little bit funny considering that Toad was using the argument ''Everyone who died thought I was town'' before that. Still, Toad hold as town for me.
Hier: have been using the most terrible logic I've ever seen. Were very clear that he thought Talis were town at the end, however he still wanted Talis OVER zephirdd. What's up with all this flip flopping? Still I'm quite heavily leaning towards town on this guy for his crazy bad case on CD just hours before CD was NKed. He is putting himself in a very bad situation which he could've avoided easily as scum.

Loldunno
Glasse: No fucking idea.
Synstyr: same as Glasse
Jingle: I was pretty much basing my whole town read on him because he was pressuring Talis so hard since the start and I was soo convinced Talis was scum. But now that Talis died I really don't know. I think his logic is quite flawed in many situations but it was the same when I played him in NMM XX and he was town then so I can't read too much into that as well.
BKE: No fucking idea.
Marv: It's certainly a possiblity that Marv thought Talis was dead no matter what so he could just soft defend him a bit and get town cred. Because he wasn't really putting too much effort in defending Talis either. Zeph was dead no matter what also. The way he even said that we should give him MORE town cred for that is imo alarming. Also he was super pushy about Toad outing the DT. This may be us having twisted opinions but I really think town would've benefitted more from NOT outing Xsebt. Other than that, his reads and play have made perfect sense. Overall leaning sliiightly scum on Marv

Scum
Hassybaby: He have posted so little but the only content he have posted points towards him being scum.
VE: My opinion about VE have been flipping back and forth. I started of thinking he was scum but when him and Talis started go nuts on each other I actually thought that he was town for a moment. However now that Talis actually was town I'm back thinking he is scum :D. Talis actually posted a case on him a while back.

The Joker
Hopeless: Reading through his filter, I really see few attempts to scum hunt. He have been discussing blues, stating obvious things and asking questions but havn't really been following them up. Why did I put him here then? Well the only person he have been suspicious of is VE and I think VE is scum. Would it really make sense for him to have his only scum read on his buddy? Still, if VE ever flips town, I think Hopeless is scum.

To Jingle: If you havn't masoned someone yet, feel free to mason me. I am not sure what to think of you and you seemed a bit suspicious of me yesterday as well.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 12 2012 17:34 GMT

#1650

On August 13 2012 02:29 marvellosity wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is getting boring. Go take a look at the Vote thread. See how many votes Zephirdd had before I voted for him. See how fast the votes came in for Zephirdd after I voted for him.

But he had a fucking red check on himself. And he didn't even try to argue his way out of it like Talismania did. He almost admitted defeat, threw a random vote on CD withour a reason and went away. I don't buy this argument as a reason for you being town.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 12 2012 17:38 GMT

#1652

Ow, right. I forgot to include Zentor :D. I was on him earlier for not making any sense at all/being an active lurker. Everyone told me that his meta is like that and noone wanted to vote him except for me. I've never played with him before and don't really bother to go back and check his older games tho. I still think he is suspicious but if he always plays like this then I really dunno what to think.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 12 2012 17:41 GMT

#1654

On August 13 2012 02:35 marvellosity wrote:
And town was gonna lynch talis first anyways.

Get over yourself, I don't need to prove I'm town to you, mr kill-townie-talis-with-fire.

In that case Vigi would probebly have shot Zeph tho. So it didn't really matter.

Also, you were the one who responded to my post saying this game is boring etc. Also, do you think I'm scum for pushing Talis? Or do you think I'm scum at all?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 12 2012 17:42 GMT

#1656

On August 13 2012 02:41 marvellosity wrote:
aren't you practically confirmed town??

No, I could be GF.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 13 2012 09:47 GMT

#1667

Sooo, we kill VE I guess? I can live with that!

##Vote: Ve

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 13 2012 09:53 GMT

#1668

Ow, and Marv. Why did you not tell us that VE masoned you earlier?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 13 2012 12:32 GMT

#1672

On August 13 2012 21:09 marvellosity wrote:

Show nested quote +

mostly right now we need people to sheep me/talis

Sorry for noob question but what does sheep mean?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 14 2012 18:39 GMT

#1757

BKE: Where are your scum reads? Looking through your filter this is the attempts to scum hunt I can find:

You were suspicious of Errandor. This is the only time you've ever done an actual case on someone
You were suspicious of Dropula but didn't push his lynch the slightest.
You are suspicious of Glasse but doesn't push his lynch the slightest.
You are suspicious of Zentor but doesn't push his lynch the slightest.
You flip-flop alot about VE, finally deciding to vote him. You don't push him a single bit, however when he is finally lynched you write this:

On August 15 2012 01:57 BroodKingEXE wrote:

Show nested quote +

VE wasnt playing to his town meta, at all. Even when he isnt as active, he seems to try more than he did in this game. In all he made two cases and his scum hunting felt suboptimal for VE. He sounded a bit too apologetic at the Erandorr lynch.

My spider senses are tingeling! Now you sound like VE was obvious scum even though you were very unsure of his alignment before the lynch. It's like your trying to take town cred for the VE lynch.

Also, you never answered all of Hopeless case against you, just one bit of it. You have clearly seen the case yet you don't answer to some bits of it. Why is that? If you don't agree with the accusations against you, tell us why.

To Vigis: I'm assuming there is an infinite shot vigialante in this game, although I could be wrong. I recomend you to shoot BKE, although I'm okay with shooting Hassy as well. Even if you don't agree with me I strongly recomend you to at least shoot someone. It's essential that we get the number of scum from 3 to 2 as fast as possible so that we can decrease their KP.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 14 2012 18:45 GMT

#1760

On August 15 2012 03:42 BroodKingEXE wrote:

Show nested quote +

I read that post as Toad asking why VE was lynched for being wierd. Just wanted to clear the air. Discussion doesn't hurt right?

If you do it with the expense of giving your scum reads, the yes I think it does hurt town

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 14 2012 18:45 GMT

#1761

EBWOP: the=then*...

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 14 2012 19:26 GMT

#1763

On August 15 2012 03:59 BroodKingEXE wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 15 2012 03:39 Lazermonkey wrote:
BKE: Where are your scum reads? Looking through your filter this is the attempts to scum hunt I can find:

You were suspicious of Errandor. This is the only time you've ever done an actual case on someone
You were suspicious of Dropula but didn't push his lynch the slightest.
You are suspicious of Glasse but doesn't push his lynch the slightest.
You are suspicious of Zentor but doesn't push his lynch the slightest.
You flip-flop alot about VE, finally deciding to vote him. You don't push him a single bit, however when he is finally lynched you write this:

On August 15 2012 01:57 BroodKingEXE wrote:

On August 15 2012 00:58 Toadesstern wrote:

On August 14 2012 22:02 marvellosity wrote:
i'll quite happily sit back, do jack shit, and let town burn, if you want, toad.

That's not it.
It's just that the reasoning for lynching WBG and Prplhz came down to "they should be better than what they showed us".
The reasoning for lynching Zeph and VE always has been "they're weird, not necessarily scummy yet but they somehow manage to get these weird phrases in their posts that really sound like they're not town and they do that a lot. Not sure what to make of it though".

At least that has been the reasoning for me (check my mason-logs, I mentioned it a couple of times when talking about Zeph I think) when judging them and you're starting to give me the same feeling VE and Zephirdd gave me, unlike WBG, prplhz and Talis did.

Keep doing what you're doing
If I'm wrong neither of us is going to get shot and we're both happy, aren't we? :p

Drop DT claimed (in the thread, not through a mason

) so Im not going to write up a case on him. Ive posted some things on Zentor I'm sure. Glasse I should build a case on and will, so far I've just got a scummy vibe off him. Kinda thought you could infer the last two points:

I'm not saying you should write I case on either VE or Dropula as they are dead... My point is that you have only taken 1 strong stance this whole game. Also define ''some'' in ''Ive posted some things on Zentor I'm sure.''. Because you havn't really.

This is your posts regarding Zentor:

On August 08 2012 14:32 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Does anyone else find Zentor's voting pattern tricky at the end. Seems like he wanted to be on the townie side of the lynch. He hasn't really done much of anything in terms of scumhunting, and his vote for Eran and VE should have been crystal clear as he had suspicions about VE before. Zentor's playing to his scum meta to top it off.

You say that he is suspicious because of his voting pattern.

On August 09 2012 08:23 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Finished looking over a few people. Scum list so far:

WBG - the Erandorr thing obviously puts him in the red. What really is blaring red is that he is refusing to take a stance on anything, not making cases and complaining about the game. At this point its a ploy for him to sit back and let us townies rip each other apart. No longer!

MrZentor: He's done nothing in this game except a very fishy vote switch to Erandorr yesterday. With no reasoning behind it.

Hopeless - He's super wishy washy with his accusations jumping on and off them in every post. Plus he's being defensive of WBG.

WBG is my first canidate, but I'll elaborate on my others if needs be.

Nothing new.

On August 13 2012 15:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Was not expecting Talis to be vig shot. Fine with the claim being held off, at least till we know the outcome of this lynch. VE, based on Talis' and marvs reasoning. My list is VE, Glasse, and Zentor. Still working on connecting up the pieces, Zentors meta makes reading him a bit tricky but I find the Zentor Zeph votes confirming an Erandorr lynch pretty damning. VE fits into the story since he was the second canidate.

Still nothing new.

These 3 posts are the only time you mention Zentor. You aren't contributing anything because the only thing that you have to back up your suspicion is his vote swaping. This have already been mentioned by several people in the thread. While I don't think there is anything scummy with agree about someone being scummy(I think those votes as something scummy as well)however why is it that you havn't tried to push the lynch on Zentor one single bit even though he have been one of your scum reads for several days now? If he was scum wouldn't you want him to be dead?

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 14 2012 21:17 GMT

#1765

Howsitgoing BKE? That was a long sec.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 15 2012 00:58 GMT

#1770

So I feel there is a decent chance that I will die today. That is unless both Marv and Toad are town which seems somewhat likely but not certain. TBH if someone of them doesn't get shot tonight I will get suspicious. They are the only vets left alive and are the guys with the most contribution by far in the thread. Other than that, my reads are somewhat unchanged. BKE is scum and Hope is probebly town.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 15 2012 01:04 GMT

#1773

: /

GG town, go get zeh scum!

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

August 17 2012 09:34 GMT

#1891

Yay for town! I still have 100% win ratio as town :D. 4 games only tho.

Regarding Talis, was he not dead when he found scum QT? Or am I thinking bad? *High five* Talis for being wrong about each other btw!

Was quite unsure of Jingle in the end. His town meta is too get mad at everyone and everything when he gets accused of something. But on the other hand he really should've understood that by now, something that he obviously did.

Marv you are such a beast ^^.

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