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On July 25 2012 00:58 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 22:47 HiroPro wrote:
Eh revealing your power level isnt such a great idea... Gives mafia an idea of who to eliminate.
I have a very simple way to ensure that lynches happen the way they should: if you are not voting for the candidate with the most votes, then right before the deadline you must switch your vote to this candidate. Effectively, this then becomes a plurality lynch. That just discourages different viewpoints. How would that be good while trying to scum hunt?
How does it discourage different viewpoints. You still push for whoever you want, make reads on whoever you want, and vote for whoever you want. The only difference is that instead of say having a 6-5 voting and not knowing who'll get lynched, you ensure that the person with the most votes gets lynched (by moving all votes to them at say 5 minutes before the deadline).
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Except
Characters each have unique power level base and cap
So now, you've introduced a new mechanic where we have no idea who's really controlling the lynch. It's not quite kingmaker, but it still introduces a lot of chaos into the lynch. I would rather have more information with a high amount of accountability, even if that does give the scum team more to work with.
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On July 25 2012 01:05 ghost_403 wrote:Except So now, you've introduced a new mechanic where we have no idea who's really controlling the lynch. It's not quite kingmaker, but it still introduces a lot of chaos into the lynch. I would rather have more information with a high amount of accountability, even if that does give the scum team more to work with.
The power levels don't matter at all though, with the plan I'm describing. Who controls the lynch? The majority does.
Accountability? You still get that by seeing who people vote for and make cases on before the final consolidation.
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Player A has a BPL of 5k.
Player B has a BPL of 2k.
Player C has a BPL of 1k.
Players B and C vote to lynch Player A, Player A votes to lynch Player B. Hammer swings, and Player B flips.
Right now, while we have everyone playing, that's not nearly as much of an issue. However, I don't believe that we can truly make this a plurality lynch.
Besides, what happens when one player decides not to sign up for your plan? Suddenly, the rest of the town is at a disadvantage, because we were planning to vote at the last minute, while the other player(s) have more influence since they started voting much earlier in the day.
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On July 25 2012 01:12 ghost_403 wrote:
Player A has a BPL of 5k.
Player B has a BPL of 2k.
Player C has a BPL of 1k.
Players B and C vote to lynch Player A, Player A votes to lynch Player B. Hammer swings, and Player B flips.
Right now, while we have everyone playing, that's not nearly as much of an issue. However, I don't believe that we can truly make this a plurality lynch.
No plan can prevent A from getting what they want there lol. It doesn't matter how you decide to vote.
Besides, what happens when one player decides not to sign up for your plan? Suddenly, the rest of the town is at a disadvantage, because we were planning to vote at the last minute, while the other player(s) have more influence since they started voting much earlier in the day.
Not everyone is switching at the last minute though. Only the people who weren't on the leading candidate. You'll still have players who have been voting for that candidate for a long time and have powered up. 1 or 2 players are not going to be able to stop the lynch.
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Hello all,
Glad to see people posting and all. With regards to roleclaiming:
+ Show Spoiler +Not all of the above red roles will be in the game. In fact, three won't be. Hmm...
This line makes me not want to. It's heavily implied that the "Scum" team have fake claims.
As to claiming power levels (base/max/whatever) I'm also hesitant about that. Leaving the strategy of switching votes at the last minute to me feels like giving mafia more control over the lynch. What if they all have really high base powers? What if there are other mechanics involving power levels with their characters? Honestly, sticking to good old fashioned scumhunting and accountability jazz will probably be the way to handle voting/lynching.
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Brazil5259 Posts
Quick reminder, observers may request for a quicktopic
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On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote:
Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game.
Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything...
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On July 25 2012 03:21 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote:
Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game. Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15420479
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On July 25 2012 03:35 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 03:21 Sinensis wrote:On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote:
Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game. Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15420479
Thanks. In my defense, that wasn't actually in the OP. It makes sense to now that I think about it though especially to keep a plan like mine from working.
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Apparently I forgot to say this anywhere, but The Defenders of Earth have 1kp/night
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On July 25 2012 03:44 iGrok wrote:
Apparently I forgot to say this anywhere, but The Defenders of Earth have 1kp/night
I was going to ask the same thing, but I just figured it was a part of the game xD
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On July 11 2012 23:52 iGrok wrote:Power Level Lynch- Whoever is voted for by the highest Power Level is lynched.
People above seem to be operating under the assumption that several people attacking the same target will accumulate power level. The quote seems to indicate that only the single highest power level attack is used. Clarify?
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OP Updated.
Total Power Level of all people voting for a target is what is measured.
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On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote:
I think that this is probably the best time to take a moment to discuss the lynching mechanics present in this game. To me, it seems like a somewhat "standard" weighted voting system, but with the caveat that the mechanics are designed to punish last minute vote switching. That's a very important note to make: the longer we spend trying to lynch a single person, the harder it becomes to lynch anyone else.
This kind of mechanic can become very important very quickly. One such situation come immediately to mind. For instance: the Town has decided to lynch someone, while a small subset disagree and vote to lynch someone else. If the town decides to pull their votes, suddenly the small subset controls the towns lynch. Because of this, I believe that it's important to consider both who we are and aren't lynching because of the voteswitch. Even if we are convinced that the person being lynched is town, it might be best to not switch merely to maintain control of the lynch.
Because of this, I would propose two policies for the town. First of all, pulling votes from a lynch candidate must be done as a block. Voting shenanigans similar to what's been going on Day 1 in Bureaucracy Mafia is simply unacceptable in this game. As a town, we must work together to control the lynch, and that involves coordinating our voting.
Secondly, post your Base Power Level (BPL), Power Level Cap (PLC), and Power/Hour (PHr) every time you vote. This will allow the town to identify how many votes are on a candidate at any point in time, and help us in identifying if a voteswitch is practical.
I really don't think we should be claiming our power level bases and caps. Quite frankly there is no real reason to do so at this point in time.
You suggest that "Even if we are convinced that the person being lynched is town, it might be best to not switch merely to maintain control of the lynch." This is exactly the situation we want to avoid as town. The minority is essentially holding the majority in hostage. With no plan or policy, if the majority wants to switch their vote, it's somewhat implied that the vote change is meaningless if there is a small subset who has been building Power. The solution to this is NOT to just keep your vote on a target whom you no longer hold conviction.
Hiro's plan makes complete sense to me and I fully support it. Essentially, we are pretending there are no Power Levels. Why? Because it's a factor we cannot really control and it hinders a majority lynch. We all vote normally and we are all scum hunting as we normally would. This plan HELPS us scum hunt because it allows to put real pressure in the form of a vote that is actually meaningful late in the day. 1 hour before lynch deadline, we all agree to switch votes to whomever has the most votes. Ensuring that the person who the MAJORITY already voted for is actually lynched. There is no kingmaker here, only the insurance that whoever the majority wants, the majority gets. I think it's important to iterate that his plan does not take into effect until the very last hour or minutes of the lynch.
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My plan is rubbish and will never work now that I know the actual rules.
However, I have spotted scum, they are ghost_403.
Reason: His initial post is criticizing my plan for reasons that aren't actually true. He says "someone didn't read the OP," when in reality there was nothing in the OP that said my plan couldn't work. The reason my plan will not work is not answered until iGrok posts this later in the thread:
On July 12 2012 00:43 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 00:40 gonzaw wrote:
So town are scum in this game?
...I'll wait for Kenpachi's "I'm Townie" post on D1 and it to be considered a scumslip >_>
I take it the 3 townies and the Sunflower receive safeclaims right? (from the 4 scum names that won't be in the game)
How do exactly the masons "find" the Sunflower? By PMing you his name or something? Yes.
That is for them and anyone who has minor wincons relating to them to know.
He is mimicking HiroPro's criticism that I didn't read the OP, when in fact I did and thoroughly. Nothing in the OP says that blue roles have access to fake claims. Especially not the DBZ rules, which are what we are using.
The truth is ghost_403 was afraid of my plan, because he is a defender of Earth. So I'm voting for him.
##vote: ghost_403
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On July 25 2012 03:21 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote:
Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game. Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything...
You seem quite sure that the missing roles are from the Ginyu Force. Why? There's no way to know for sure except for scum.
And this is quite a naked play for power level if I've ever seen one. Scum would not be afraid of your plan because they know they have a fake claim.
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Not all of the above red roles will be in the game. In fact, three won't be. Hmm...
I took this to mean "the scum team will be given these fake role PMs". The quote has been in the OP the entire time.
And I don't understand how being afraid of your plan is a scum tell. Do you disagree with my analysis for why I think your plan is foolish?
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Ignoring a games unique mechanic- power levels- is a little bit silly to me. While it may be difficult to see valuable data in a hidden stat at this point of the game, it will be very valuable in later stages to look at early votes and estimate power levels, or perhaps compare claims.
A system that attempts to never obtain data from power levels is restricting potential information, therefore bad. On the other hand, I don't think open PL claims are ideal immediately.
@Sinensis
1) Acknowledge plan is rubbish due to rules.
2) Claim you have a scum read because someone pointed #1 out to you. The misstated that the rule was in a clarification rather than OP.
That's not even close to a scum read. That's just stupid.
I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote.
#1 is ideal, but only an option in some situations. If there is a clear schism between two groups, certain voting blocks emerging, people defending hard, etc. then this can be used. But just someone making a crap case based on crap day 1 analysis (no hard data yet) I think is useless.
#2 is more likely to be the case on day 1. I have two reasons for support a random vote: 1. Town is bad at day 1 reads. I did analysis of this once based off TL data. And 2. Scum will be actively- though subtly- pushing their agenda, whereas the town cannot effectively do this. This increases the chance of a townie kill if we go off crap day 1 reads. We will still gain data based off who voted when, who pushed for who, who supported the kill- regardless of if we hit a townie or scum.
That said, I will be hoping that #1 is the case today, and will be examining everyone’s play/claims/attacks/support to see if there is any vote that will gather significant data for day 2.
Otherwise, I will be rolling a random number now, and voting on that person due to how the mechanics work, it's best to do this early.
##Vote: Sinensis
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On July 25 2012 04:45 heist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 03:21 Sinensis wrote:On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote:
Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game. Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything... You seem quite sure that the missing roles are from the Ginyu Force. Why? There's no way to know for sure except for scum. And this is quite a naked play for power level if I've ever seen one. Scum would not be afraid of your plan because they know they have a fake claim.
I was looking at the Dragon Ball wiki because I've never watched it (thought this was going to be a Samurai Champloo game) and it said enemies of Earth I.E. TOWN this game are called the Ginyu Force. Also... what? Scum don't know anyone's role except defenders of Earth.
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EPT
