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On July 25 2012 05:01 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 04:45 heist wrote:On July 25 2012 03:21 Sinensis wrote:On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote:
Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game. Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything... You seem quite sure that the missing roles are from the Ginyu Force. Why? There's no way to know for sure except for scum. And this is quite a naked play for power level if I've ever seen one. Scum would not be afraid of your plan because they know they have a fake claim. I was looking at the Dragon Ball wiki because I've never watched it (thought this was going to be a Samurai Champloo game) and it said enemies of Earth I.E. TOWN this game are called the Ginyu Force. Also... what? Scum don't know anyone's role except defenders of Earth.
Oh so it was an issue of not knowing the "lore". Only
Captain Ginyu
Jeice
Burter
Recoome
Guldo
are in the Ginyu Force.
Scum know their own fake claims and thus each others.
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EBWOP: I just want to point out that the person voting for me wants to either lynch for information or completely randomly.
On July 25 2012 04:52 michaelthe wrote: I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote.
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On July 25 2012 05:05 heist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 05:01 Sinensis wrote:On July 25 2012 04:45 heist wrote:On July 25 2012 03:21 Sinensis wrote:On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote:
Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game. Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything... You seem quite sure that the missing roles are from the Ginyu Force. Why? There's no way to know for sure except for scum. And this is quite a naked play for power level if I've ever seen one. Scum would not be afraid of your plan because they know they have a fake claim. I was looking at the Dragon Ball wiki because I've never watched it (thought this was going to be a Samurai Champloo game) and it said enemies of Earth I.E. TOWN this game are called the Ginyu Force. Also... what? Scum don't know anyone's role except defenders of Earth. Oh so it was an issue of not knowing the "lore". Only Captain Ginyu Jeice Burter Recoome Guldo are in the Ginyu Force. Scum know their own fake claims and thus each others.
Okay so if I want to call the people who want to kill the Defenders of Earth something what should I call them? What do you call the group of characters with red names if not the Ginyu Force?
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Attackers of Earth?
IDK, Lorewise those 5 are part of a squad, in this game its just a bundled mess of villains =D
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For all intents and purposes, the Defender of Earth are SCUM and the red name characters are TOWN, some of whom are in the Ginyu Force.
Btw, your vote is just as bad.
On July 25 2012 04:52 michaelthe wrote:
Ignoring a games unique mechanic- power levels- is a little bit silly to me. While it may be difficult to see valuable data in a hidden stat at this point of the game, it will be very valuable in later stages to look at early votes and estimate power levels, or perhaps compare claims.
A system that attempts to never obtain data from power levels is restricting potential information, therefore bad. On the other hand, I don't think open PL claims are ideal immediately.
@Sinensis
1) Acknowledge plan is rubbish due to rules.
2) Claim you have a scum read because someone pointed #1 out to you. The misstated that the rule was in a clarification rather than OP.
That's not even close to a scum read. That's just stupid.
I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote.
#1 is ideal, but only an option in some situations. If there is a clear schism between two groups, certain voting blocks emerging, people defending hard, etc. then this can be used. But just someone making a crap case based on crap day 1 analysis (no hard data yet) I think is useless.
#2 is more likely to be the case on day 1. I have two reasons for support a random vote: 1. Town is bad at day 1 reads. I did analysis of this once based off TL data. And 2. Scum will be actively- though subtly- pushing their agenda, whereas the town cannot effectively do this. This increases the chance of a townie kill if we go off crap day 1 reads. We will still gain data based off who voted when, who pushed for who, who supported the kill- regardless of if we hit a townie or scum.
That said, I will be hoping that #1 is the case today, and will be examining everyone’s play/claims/attacks/support to see if there is any vote that will gather significant data for day 2.
Otherwise, I will be rolling a random number now, and voting on that person due to how the mechanics work, it's best to do this early.
##Vote: Sinensis
I'm gonna focus more your reasonings than your vote itself. Honestly it's a bad vote based solely off a bad vote.
When is a random vote EVER BETTER than a case even if its based off of flimsy day 1 data? There's no accountability. The success of day 1, I would argue, does not rest upon a successful lynch. You're right; we are more likely to mislynch than actually manage to kill scum. If you go into day 1 thinking that the end result of the lynch is the most important thing to day 1 you'll go nowhere. Planning to vote randomly because of it, day 1, will get you nowhere. Information is inevitable but only if you try to pursue scum (even if it may be flawed). Information lynches don't just magically happen to occur. It's there because of analysis and discussion about the lynch target, not everyone deciding to randomly vote because it's the same odds.
@Ghost: Do you still disagree with the plan?
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To help those who don't know the Lore:
Enemies of Earth in approximate order of appearance, with brief descriptions:
- Raditz: Goku's Brother. Saiyan. Wanted to make Goku destroy the Earth. Weakest Saiyan alive. Attempts to kidnap Goten (Goku's son), defeated by Goku & Piccolo.
- Vegeta: Prince of Saiyans. Extremely Arrogant. Works for Freiza with Nappa, his "bodyguard". Does not know Freiza destroyed his planet initially, finds out later. Strongest living Saiyan (other than Goku), hates Goku for being stronger and tries to eliminate him at all times. Cannot go Super-Saiyan until after the Freiza Saga.
- Nappa: Bodyguard to Vegeta. Very brash. Takes out all of the original Defenders of Earth (Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu, Piccolo, Goten), and the Earth's military. Kind of dumb. "Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his Power Level?" Defeated by Goku
- Dodoria: One of Freiza's right-hand men. Uses his weight to attack people. Knows that Freiza destroyed the Saiyans. Defeated by Vegeta.
- Zarbon: Freiza's other right-hand man. Obsessed with his looks. Transforms into a monster form. Defeated by Vegeta.
- Ginyu Squad: Freiza's Special Forces Commandos. 5 Total:
- Captain Ginyu: Leader of the Squad. Switches bodies with Goku, and then accidentally switches bodies with a Frog. Obsessed with poses.
- Recoome: Brute of the squad. Very aggressive, not very smart. Knocked out by Goku, killed by Vegeta.
- Jeice: little red guy second only to Ginyu with his love for poses. Works with Burter to take down Goku, fails.
- Burter: Tall blue guy, fastest creature in the universe (other than Goku). Works with Jeice to take down Goku, fails.
- Guldo: tiny green frogman. Complete coward and physically weak, but he can freeze time for as long as he can hold his breath.
- Freiza: Most powerful being in the universe (before being defeated by Goku). Has different stages of transformation, each increased stage increases his Power Level. Destroyed Vegeta's planet and all the Saiyans because they were starting to be a threat, tells Vegeta it was a comet. Kills Krillin (but then, who doesn't?)
For any other Lore questions, feel free to check here
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Thanks iGrok this is very helpful
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On July 25 2012 05:28 heist wrote:+ Show Spoiler +For all intents and purposes, the Defender of Earth are SCUM and the red name characters are TOWN, some of whom are in the Ginyu Force. Btw, your vote is just as bad. On July 25 2012 04:52 michaelthe wrote:
Ignoring a games unique mechanic- power levels- is a little bit silly to me. While it may be difficult to see valuable data in a hidden stat at this point of the game, it will be very valuable in later stages to look at early votes and estimate power levels, or perhaps compare claims.
A system that attempts to never obtain data from power levels is restricting potential information, therefore bad. On the other hand, I don't think open PL claims are ideal immediately.
@Sinensis
1) Acknowledge plan is rubbish due to rules.
2) Claim you have a scum read because someone pointed #1 out to you. The misstated that the rule was in a clarification rather than OP.
That's not even close to a scum read. That's just stupid.
I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote.
#1 is ideal, but only an option in some situations. If there is a clear schism between two groups, certain voting blocks emerging, people defending hard, etc. then this can be used. But just someone making a crap case based on crap day 1 analysis (no hard data yet) I think is useless.
#2 is more likely to be the case on day 1. I have two reasons for support a random vote: 1. Town is bad at day 1 reads. I did analysis of this once based off TL data. And 2. Scum will be actively- though subtly- pushing their agenda, whereas the town cannot effectively do this. This increases the chance of a townie kill if we go off crap day 1 reads. We will still gain data based off who voted when, who pushed for who, who supported the kill- regardless of if we hit a townie or scum.
That said, I will be hoping that #1 is the case today, and will be examining everyone’s play/claims/attacks/support to see if there is any vote that will gather significant data for day 2.
Otherwise, I will be rolling a random number now, and voting on that person due to how the mechanics work, it's best to do this early.
##Vote: Sinensis I'm gonna focus more your reasonings than your vote itself. Honestly it's a bad vote based solely off a bad vote. When is a random vote EVER BETTER than a case even if its based off of flimsy day 1 data? There's no accountability. The success of day 1, I would argue, does not rest upon a successful lynch. You're right; we are more likely to mislynch than actually manage to kill scum. If you go into day 1 thinking that the end result of the lynch is the most important thing to day 1 you'll go nowhere. Planning to vote randomly because of it, day 1, will get you nowhere. Information is inevitable but only if you try to pursue scum (even if it may be flawed). Information lynches don't just magically happen to occur. It's there because of analysis and discussion about the lynch target, not everyone deciding to randomly vote because it's the same odds. @Ghost: Do you still disagree with the plan?
I like to think about it this way; at least michaelthe is giving us a choice between the two best scenarios possible for scum.
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Caught up now...
having not heard much from grush57 gives me an uneasy feeling...he basically lurked/trolled all the way through LVI when he was scum, and got very little attention.
In a mini, the story is different, so know that I am noticing your absence grush.
Fulla as well...speak up. I'm going to spend some time in Fulla's NMM as his play is pretty unfamiliar to me.
I so far do not like the random vote on Sinensis.
I don't think ghost_403's negative reaction to plan is alignment indicative. Some people just dislike planning in general, no matter what their alignment.
For right now, I'm going to be voting grush57 until he speaks up.
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also, I'd like to hear an explanation from michaelthe on the post heist spoke of briefly.
michaelthe, your ambivalence to day 1 is worrisome. if everyone played like you day 1, there would be no information to be had for any lynch. random voting just for the sake of buffing up your power level makes it seem like you don't care who dies today. scum also don't particularly care which of us die today. are you scum?
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On July 25 2012 07:29 s0Lstice wrote:
having not heard much from grush57 gives me an uneasy feeling...he basically lurked/trolled all the way through LVI when he was scum, and got very little attention.
In a mini, the story is different, so know that I am noticing your absence grush.
As far as I know there was a role PM but not an actual start PM?
On July 25 2012 08:08 s0Lstice wrote:
also, I'd like to hear an explanation from michaelthe on the post heist spoke of briefly.
michaelthe, your ambivalence to day 1 is worrisome. if everyone played like you day 1, there would be no information to be had for any lynch. random voting just for the sake of buffing up your power level makes it seem like you don't care who dies today. scum also don't particularly care which of us die today. are you scum?
I don't care who dies, I care what people think about the person I picked to die.
Also, can we use town and scum rather than reverse colors?
Plus, I'm hoping to get my power level OVER 900!!!
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@michaelthe I'm pretty null on Sinensis right now.
Activity level seriously sucks. It better pick up soon.
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On July 25 2012 09:03 michaelthe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 07:29 s0Lstice wrote:
having not heard much from grush57 gives me an uneasy feeling...he basically lurked/trolled all the way through LVI when he was scum, and got very little attention.
In a mini, the story is different, so know that I am noticing your absence grush.
As far as I know there was a role PM but not an actual start PM? Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 08:08 s0Lstice wrote:
also, I'd like to hear an explanation from michaelthe on the post heist spoke of briefly.
michaelthe, your ambivalence to day 1 is worrisome. if everyone played like you day 1, there would be no information to be had for any lynch. random voting just for the sake of buffing up your power level makes it seem like you don't care who dies today. scum also don't particularly care which of us die today. are you scum? I don't care who dies, I care what people think about the person I picked to die. Also, can we use town and scum rather than reverse colors? Plus, I'm hoping to get my power level OVER 900!!!
This isn't an acceptable defense of any of your actions, this is struggling like some pathetic Earth creature.
The game started 2 minutes after the role PMs went out. Why does grush need a game start PM too? The rest of us figured it out.
(Time role PM was sent)
Zephirdd DBZ Mini Mafia 7/24 09:51 Save / Delete / U
(Time of Day 1 post)
On July 24 2012 09:53 iGrok wrote:
All your post accomplishes is dodging real questions with nonsense. You just put yourself and your suspicious friend grush57 on my radar.
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Eh, michaelthe's post doesnt say anything about him - from what I remember he said something about day 1 lynches being useless and better to random lynch in both space station and li as town(im on my phone so its a pan to check but im pretty sure).
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Im talking about his first post btw. Sinensis I have no idea what youre trying to do with pm times but you should stop...
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On July 25 2012 12:11 HiroPro wrote:
Im talking about his first post btw. Sinensis I have no idea what youre trying to do with pm times but you should stop...
Did you not read his other post? I'm not going to "stop" who are you?
Michaelthe is defending grush57, the worst player I've ever personally played with, based on this:
On July 25 2012 09:03 michaelthe wrote:
As far as I know there was a role PM but not an actual start PM?
So I posted the role PM time and the game start time and pointed out that they are only two minutes apart. Michaelthe is defending himself, AND grush57 with nothing but hot air.
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You should stop because doing stuff with role PM times is generally banned and doesnt say anything...
How exatly does michaelthe defending grush lead you to think that grush is suspicious?
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On July 25 2012 12:24 HiroPro wrote:
You should stop because doing stuff with role PM times is generally banned and doesnt say anything...
How exatly does michaelthe defending grush lead you to think that grush is suspicious?
In my play book, grush57 starts every game with something to prove. Well, we're 24 hours into a mini where the sooner you vote the more votes you get, he's missing in action, and someone is trying to defend him nonsense.
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Sinensis, posting anything PM related other than your role PM is forbidden. Don't make me warn you again.
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EPT
