EPTMuch love to the newbie twins (at least in my mind) s0Lstice + sciberbia. How come whenever I find one of you, the other isn't far off?
I Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Much love to the newbie twins (at least in my mind) s0Lstice + sciberbia. How come whenever I find one of you, the other isn't far off? | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
On July 11 2012 06:57 marvellosity wrote: ... if all the people I've hosted/coached/watched from the Newbie games gang up on me, I shall be rather displeased D: You can't stop me marv! I've got tunnel vision and it's only for you! Now is it the good kind or the bad kind... | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
First things first, here is a list of games I've played in as well as links to my filters from those games. I think I'll be starting all my games with a list like this because it helps me improve. If I'm scum, I have to avoid playing closely to my scum meta. If I'm town, I put pressure on myself to make good reads. The list is spoilered so as not to take up too much space. + Show Spoiler + NMM XIV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337671&user=240210 I was a Mafia Goon in this game. NMM XV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340298&user=240210 I was a Vanilla Townie in this game. NMM XVII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344270&user=240210 I was a Mafia Goon in this game. NMM XVIII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345447&user=240210 I replaced into this game. I was a Vanilla Townie. NMM XIX: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856&user=240210 I replaced into this game. I was a Vanilla Townie. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Looking through his filter he seems awfully defensive about the plan he came up with. Let me state this so as not to cause confusion, I don't find the fact that he came up with the plan scummy, I find the amount of time he's spent defending himself from the fallout of his plan scummy. I think he's spent 3 or 4 posts just defending himself. I'm looking at his "Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan" post. It seems like a forced way of making some sort of analysis come from his proposal. He seems to think that so many people agreeing that it's a bad plan is bandwagoning of opinion, and thus scummy. I disagree, I think anyone can see that it's a bad plan and it would be a bad idea to agree with it, scum or town. He's shat up a bunch of the thread talking about his proposal or trying to derail the discussion towards it. I'll post more reads on players as they come to me. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
The case against talis isn't just that he came up with a half-assed plan. He's been really defensive all game and hasn't really put much effort into the scumhunt. If you look at his play from that light he seems pretty scummy. Just look at how many times he's defended himself without adding much to the conversation. @ Mattchew I have a difficult time making a read on Keirathi. Having played with him in previous games his town play has always been a little strange to me. My current understanding of his town meta is that he's not a very strong D1 player, but he gets better as the game goes on. I'd like to give him the BOTD based on that. As for sciberbia I'm a little suspicious, but I don't think we have enough to go on to get a read either way. I think we have better options for lynch. For now I think talis is the best option and I'm looking deeper into the cases made against austinmcc. These are the two best cases that I've seen. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
##Vote: talismania I'm off to work. I should be back in a few hours. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
You're misrepesenting what I said. Let's look at the reasons you find me suspicious. 2. He comments on Talis plan being bad, and that being reason enough to be scummy. My impression of talis plan gone bad so far: It's a magnet for players with no/bad cases to have a reason to post something accusing. The downside is that it might have triggered policy discussion and a lot of chaos, while promising a lot of clarity by forcing players to take a hard stance, so talis plan was risky from a town perspective, and I'd leave it at that. He said it worked in bastard mafia, let's leave it at that: It won't be used here. 3. Defending oneself isn't scummy. If it's really the only thing you do, then yes, but Milton already knows that it's not the only thing tali is doing: still seems to firmly believe in a scum tali. He doesn't have any other reads. He comments on Keirathi and sciberbia being unreadable to him. I'll go for Milton if I don't see some arguments to his defense. I never said talis's plan was scummy. It was a bad plan, but it wasn't scummy. He spends a ton of time after the plan is scrapped talking about it. That is what I find scummy. Not only that, but he takes the plan one step further and draws reads from the way people reacted to it. Drawing reads based on timing from a shitty plan that everyone-and-their-mother-can-see-is-shitty seems like a good way to gain steam for a mislynch. I didn't outline that particularly well so I can understand some confusion on your part. Also, at the time of the post you've outlined in section 2, I'd missed the part in talismania's "Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan" where he put pressure on austin. I didn't want to misrepresent him so I posted the edit. I still stand by my opinion that the pressure he's posted has been pretty weaksauce. He's talked about dropbear and austinmcc being scummy, but he's done very little to follow up such talk. IMO the pressure he's put on people has been "blending in" pressure rather than a real attempt at scumhunting. @ s0Lstice Yes, I have based some of my reads off of meta. You'll notice that all of my meta reads have been on players I've played with before. If I feel that players are getting flak for posting the way they've always posted, I'll say so. That was happening to both Keirathi and austinmcc so I tried to make sure that town knows that's the way they typically post. I don't see anything wrong with that. It gives the town more info about players and their habits, rather than less. You're right on one thing, I should familiarize myself with talismania's meta, which is something I will do now that I've gotten home from work. (They called me in on my day off, the bastards) Just a quick point. In no way does a player following their town meta absolve them of suspicion, but it does push them closer to a null read than a scum read. I'm looking for a player pushing a scummy agenda. Neither austin or Keirathi fit that bill to me. Talismania does. It's as simple as that. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
talismania- I've posted my reasoning before. He's promoted an anti-town environment. s0Lstice- When you've got no other reads just sheep the vets, amirite? No, but seriously, let's look at his reasoning for voting me. Miltonkram: I found to my sorrow that making a case on a town Talis is an easy thing to do. This also means that he is an attractive target for scum to harp on. I found Milton's reasoning strange. His filter is small, but there are several references to the use of meta. He uses meta to inform his reads on Keirathi, Sciberbia, and austin...but not his top scum read? I know for certain that the information he would find would be useful to him here. His case reads as phony, and I think there is a good chance he rolled scum again. And then let's look at his comments later on in the same post. Now talis, you asked about austin. Right now he is looking a lot like he did in his town games. There are no scum games for me to look at, so the meta argument only goes so far. He makes long posts with a lot of stuff that amounts mainly to filler, but he also plants a few nuggets of really good reasoning. This game his effort matches, and I feel he has made some good points on Risen. Him matching his town meta is only one piece of my view on him, and it's largely unnecessary. His actions thus far seem pretty pro-town to me. He demonizes me for debunking bad reads(IMO) on players based on meta, and then he attempts to clear austinmcc from suspicion partially using meta. True, he includes the clause, "Him matching his town meta is only one piece of my view on him, and it's largely unneccessary," but the fact remains that he's guilty of the exact same thing I was trying to do. Other than that I don't have much to add that other players haven't stated. At this moment I wouldn't feel comfortable lynching any other players. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I would argue that discussion has moved along well despite the way talismania has been posting. I see where you're coming from, talismania's proposal did spark discussion. The fact that he's been so intent to keep discussing a dead topic could easily derail the thread away from scumhunting, or, in the case of his "Reaction" post, doing really bad scumhunting based off of a terrible premise. I'm not sure what you would like expanded on in that last comment you outlined. I'm going to look through previous games talismania has played to help inform my read on him. Is there something in there that isn't clear to you? @ s0Lstice I was jokingly making the point that I was sheeping marvellosity. I didn't mean to say that you were. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
My opinion on talismania will be updated. Before now, he'd done very little to make me change my opinion on him. Seriously, just look through his filter before his latest case on DropBear and austinmcc. That being said, his latest case is pretty decent and I will re-examine my opinion on him. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Townie points for DropBear: - He has a clear, concise posting style. - He is forward with the few reads he has. Quick aside. These are very easy behaviors to imitate. I think DropBear is a good player and it's possible that he is manufacturing this style of play. Scummy points for Dropbear: I'll defend Milton for you He started late so hasn't posted as much. We knew that was happening before the games started. Your point 1 directly helps people get a read on him. This is extremely positive town play. In your point 2, you say how the plan allows pointless posting and how that doesn't help town, but then turn around and lambast Milton for pointing this out. Contradiction much? There is no real pressure from talismania on austin at all. Milton is right, talismania IS only defending the plan and not committing to accusations. Three reads is enough for day 1, no? Posting your read on every single person is just clutter. You should be less obvious in defending your buddy. SCUM TEAM Vivax talismania He defends me. Unlike Mattchew, I find defending a player can be a strong strategy for scum. It makes a player look forthright with their reads in the short term, and, if DropBear ever flips red, I immediately get flak for the fact that he defended me. I don't think I've done enough to move beyond a null read for most players. DropBear's town read of me seems manufactured. Also, please note the section I've bolded in the post. In my experience scum will put up a false mask of confidence in hopes of getting townies to sheep their viewpoints. Statements like "you should be less obvious in defending your buddy" and "this because Vivax is scum (this quote is from a later post)" reek of putting up a false sense of confidence. I don't think any town player can be that confident in their reads at this point. I'd also like to point people's attention to DropBear's "defense." WOLOLOLOLOL nice OMGUS tali! So I'm aggressive? Did you forget Bastard 2 already? When I shouted and screamed to kill only 2 players the entire time I was alive? Plus the examples you give of me being disruptive and aggressive are just firm statements. How is strongly disagreeing being disruptive and trollish? And narrow focused? It's better to focus on a couple of people than splurge shit on EVERYONE like you have done wouldn't you say? Your case on me positively REEKS of being manufactured. Nope, I think DropBear's defense reeks of being manufactured. Labeling something OMGUS is a great way of defending something without actually defending the content of it or giving it credence. It's the same concept of defending oneself by labeling something WIFOM. I think DropBear has a really good chance of flipping scum based on these reasons. Please look into his play a bit more. ##UnVote: talismania ##Vote: DropBear I see the points being made in talismania's defense and I think I was guilty of a case of tunnel vision. By no means is he a town read to me, but I think DropBear is more likely to flip scum. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
@ sciberbia I would be interested in hearing your opinion of DropBear. @ s0Lstice Are you still in the thread? What are your opinions on DropBear? | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Vivax's flip has me even more convinced that DropBear is scum. Why is it scummy that DropBear defended one town player from another? Think about the situation from my perspective. I know I'm town and now I know that Vivax is town. That means when scum saw Vivax attacking me, they saw one town player attacking another town player (with a weak case too IMO). It's the perfect time to gain town cred in my eyes by defending me, while also putting pressure on Vivax that helped lead to a mislynch. Furthermore, in the past I've shown a propensity for trusting players who have defended me, such as in NMM XV. I don't know if DropBear has seen it, but it's possible that he has and that he was trying to get me to repeat one of my past mistakes. I wouldn't find this nearly as scummy without the fact that DropBear seemed to manufacture a town read on me out of thin air. He called me one of his strongest town reads, but he never explained why I'm such a strong town read to him. If he was honestly trying to save/defend me, why hasn't he ever explained why I look town to him? Calling someone a town read, and then explaining your reasoning seems like a good town move. Calling someone town and then using it to further incriminate another player (Vivax) seems really scummy. Just think about it. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I'll consider the implications of the marv kill and see what other reads I can make when I get home. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Top scum reads: DropBear- I realize I've posted on him quite a bit. The case against him has taken place over several posts so in this post I'll just consolidate the scummy points. - He had a town read on me seemingly plucked out of thin air. - His defense against talismania boiled down to a bit of meta and labeling the case OMGUS. This is a really scummy defense. - He targeted Vivax, but didn't seem particularly invested in contributing to the case against him. - He made confident statements to the extent of "Vivax is scum." This is a common tactic used by scum to get townies to sheep them based on the confident tone. If anyone needs me to point out games where this has been true, I'd be more than happy to show you. DropBear is my strongest scum read. The rest of my scum reads are not nearly as strong due to the fact that most of them are partially based on meta. At this point I will not be happy with a lynch on anyone but DropBear. sciberbia- In his last few posts before the D1 deadline, he seemed to have been convinced that Vivax was town. Why didn't he try to organize a voteswitch off of him? There was likely support for it. I argue that he knew Vivax was town, but didn't want to get a voteswitch onto his scumbuddy DropBear. Furthermore I've always viewed sciberbia as a big picture kind of guy. As town, he's exceptional at seeing through minor inconsistencies, and instead finding behavior with a scum agenda behind it. During this game he's harped on players for minor inconsistencies, been fairly wishy-washy with his reads, and was lead to the Vivax case rather than the one leading it. These are all things I haven't seen from him. This case is partially a meta read, so take that for what it's worth. s0Lstice- His reasoning for voting me was pretty strange. His D1 play has also been a lot weaker than I'm used to seeing from him. Also in this post @Milton Yea I'm here for a bit more. I think dropbear is town for mainly the same reasons that Matt does. He has been fearless, and doesn't particularly care about the consequences of his actions. he completely ignores the scummy points I made against DropBear. A point that has been made against s0Lstice is that he was content not to scumhunt for quite a while D1. In the past he has sat back and directed conversation for quite some time before making his reads. I didn't expect s0Lstice's cases to be quite so weak as they were though. Mattchew- He disappeared at lynch time and hasn't committed to reads. This is bullshit. Actually, add him to the list of players I'd be happy to lynch. I can't help wanting to lynch him out of spite. I'm exhausted and I've stayed up way too late. I'm going to bed. Please for the love of god consider the DropBear case. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Talismania's case-making against DropBear and in general has been subpar. I find that the scummiest point against him. Sciberbia, s0Lstice and I all played in Newbie Mini XV with Vivax. He's been a scummy-as-fuck town player for quite a while. I meant to point this out before the D1 lynch, but I was in a rush and it slipped my mind. The fact that none of us pointed this out should count as an extremely scummy point against all three of us. I have to run, I'm visiting family. I should be back in the thread in a while. In the meantime I would appreciate it if people would read through each of our filters extremely thoroughly. I know I'm town, but I include my name in this to be fair to both sciberbia and s0Lstice. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Glad to see you all hit scum without me though. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I was roleblocked last night. I doubt I was blocked by a jailkeeper since I haven't been a huge contribution to the town and I don't see a reason to protect me. If a town-aligned player roleblocked me do we want them to claim? | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I don't know why I was RB'd, I just know that I was. There are a few possible explanations though. 1. We have a town jailkeeper. The jailkeeper protected me during the night. I find this extremely unlikely seeing as no one claimed RB N1. 2. We have a town aligned RBer with a scum read on me. I find this somewhat likely. It would explain the lack of a roleblock N1 due to the fact that there was suspicion on pretty much everyone and the RBer . 3. The scum team has a roleblocker who decided not to use his power N1 in order to make a town-aligned player look really bad. This is a definite possibility. 4. I'm scum and I'm fakeclaiming. Just a hint, I'm not. I'll be starting my mafia binge shortly to see if I can make some decent reads. I'd like everyone to keep in mind that whether or not Risen is fakeclaiming, claims shouldn't take precedence over good, old fashioned case making. If you see something scummy, bring it up. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
For now I believe Risen's cop claim. He's either cop or he's been planning a cop fakeclaim for a while now. Claiming cop as scum can be really difficult and it's safer to claim as a less knowledgeable role. He's got the BOTD for now. I'll be updating my reads on other players shortly. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Then fucking lynch me today so you can get past your tunnel vision that you had with Vivax and maybe make an actual good read. I'm serious, as much as I don't want us to lynch a townie today, I would rather Risen not be biased and tunneling me and not trying to find the real scum. ##Vote: Keirathi If he were town I think he would continue to try and push a Risen lynch for the reasons he has claimed, to either hit scum or get close-to-confirmed town players. Keirathi giving up does nothing to help town or help us figure out whether Risen is truly a cop or not. Because of this, the only motivation I can see for Keirathi "giving up" is as a gambit to get town players to view him as town. Furthermore the timing is off. Keirathi gives up when there is still plenty of time to pursue cases. I've seen plenty of town players give up close to the deadline, but never 24 hours before it. This makes me think Keirathi's frustration is a ploy. Where did his suspicion of Risen's cop claim go? He states "I would rather Risen not be biased and tunneling me and not trying to find the real scum." It seems like he's treating Risen as if he knows Risen is town. If Keirathi is town, he would pursue a case against Risen harder and search for reasons to distrust Risen's cop-claim. I don't think he's come up with any decent reasons not to trust the claim. I'm not done reading Keirathi's filter, but this screams scum to me. ##Vote: Keirathi | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I really don't like the fact that you were willing to vote yourself. I don't see that as being helpful in any way if you're town. For the record, I do see the point that is being made against Risen. If he were town, wouldn't he at least consider the prospect of being lynched to get confirmed town players? I don't see what is so crazy about the proposal that Keirathi and DropBear have made. I'm rereading Risen's filter as well. Maybe there is something scummy to be found. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I see now. I didn't fully think through DropBear's post. I am also wary of how obvious Risen's breadcrumb was. It's almost like he wanted player's to catch it. Still reading Risen's filter and cross-checking it with the thread. @ sciberbia, s0Lstice, Mattchew & gonzaw Given the recent evidence posted, do you think Risen's cop claim is legit? | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
No, I have no idea either. It confuses me too. @ Risen Is there something we're missing here? | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
@ Risen This possibility popped into my head and I just need to get an answer. Risen are you fakeclaiming cop and are you the mason? At this point, if you are the mason I'd just like you to claim since this cop claim has taken up so much of the discussion today. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Ok, thanks for the quick answer. I reread Mattchew's case against gonzaw. I think he's onto something. I'd advise everyone to look at it. My reads have shifted like crazy over the course of the day. For now I'm going with Keirathi and Risen both town and gonzaw scum. If I find any new evidence to add while reading gonzaw's filter (ugh) I'll post it. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Like I said before, try and look at his play from a VT perspective. His plan actually makes sense. Turn off your tunnel vision and take a look at gonzaw. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I don't think DropBear is scum. He attacked talismania fairly early on D1. Talismania attacked him too. It's possible that they were bussing each other early, but I find it extremely unlikely. Because of that I'm giving DropBear the BOTD. @ Gonzaw I have a small filter because I've been busy. If you've looked through my filter you'd notice that I had to help my father move. The move happened rather suddenly so I wasn't able to budget time in for this game, hence me missing the vote D2. I'm doing my best to catch up and contribute today, but there is a lot of posts to wade through. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I didn't realize my vote was still on Keirathi. Thanks for clearing that up. ##UnVote: Keirathi ##Vote: gonzaw Regarding your question, in Keirathi and I's previous game together, Newbie Mini XIX, he put in a ton of effort. He had this "never-say-die" attitude that caused him to be incredibly active. Keirathi giving up doesn't fit in with the picture I have of him from that game. There are two reasons for a player to give up, they are frustrated or they're giving up as a scum ploy. I originally thought Keirathi giving up was extremely scummy, but thinking over the situation and rereading his responses gives me the impression that he's actually frustrated. I find Mattchew's case against you more convincing anyways. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
There's still the possibility of a framer. There's still the possibility of there being two Godfathers. Your logic is flawed. I don't see how DropBear is scummy. He and talismania went at each other D1. It's possible that they tried to bus each other D1, but it's extremely unlikely. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
@ gonzaw My initial impression is that Mattchew is town and you are scum. I feel like the cases made against you are much more concrete than the cases made against him. I'm currently cross-checking filters chronologically with the thread. This takes a lot of time and effort, so I'm not spewing shit all over the thread and drowning it with all my half-baked opinions, unlike someone I can think of... | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Like, no offense to scib, but I would put a lot of the weight on Talis actually getting lynched on me forcing attention onto him. Scib's case was good and all, but would you agree that without me pushing individuals (not just HEY THREAD I MADE A CASE) was the real reason for all the votes on Talis? I wanted to get Talis lynched, something you flipflopped on a lot which I am extremely suspicious of. I think I did a pretty good job of bringing people from "I would lynch x,x, and talis," to actually voting and getting on Talis. But thats enough for patting myself on the back. I don't feel like every point s0Lstice made against Mattchew is great, but his point against this post stands out. If Mattchew did bus talismania, he stands to gain a lot by bringing his role in the lynch to the forefrunt of everyone's minds. I don't see how town benefits from Mattchew making this post. At best it's egoistic, at worst it's downright scummy. I'll be considering the possibility of a scum Mattchew. PS. I finally made it through gonzaw's filter. It'll be a little bit, but I'll post my findings as soon as I can. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Every time talismania mentions him it's rather awkward. In tali's "Reactions" post: + Show Spoiler + ---snip gonzaw Actually follows the plan - as I said seems rather townie. Especially the timing. Talismania clears gonzaw of suspicion for the flimsiest of reasons. Gonzaw actually followed tali's plan, but that isn't alignment indicative. The fact that talismania seems eager to give gonzaw the BOTD early makes me suspicious of gonzaw. Then tali mentions gonzaw in another list (did I mention I hate lists): + Show Spoiler + Mattchew: I dub mattchew "the poker-prodder". He keeps poking and prodding people. He's ultimately a null tell for me, as he is in every game I've ever seen him in. For a second I had him on my scummy list because of his "hey are you just actively lurking" post until now when I've re-read his filter and seen him poking at everyone. I am a bit surprised he's not voting for me - I think as scum he would have done that by now especially when he called me out like he did. I also have a question for you, Mattchew: What ever happened to your thoughts about austin? You never mention him again in your filter after this. Risen: I agree with what solstice just said about his style. It's sort of impossible to read given his pre-game determination to change it. That said, his content has been incredibly lacking. He made his vote too early, he didn't explain it. Actually reading through his filter now he does seem really sketchy. Interested to see if and how he changes his vote today. solstice: I really like the case marv made on him, actually, but for some reason I don't know if I can move beyond a null on him. Like I think the first half of his filter is scummy (the part marv showed), the second half townie. Overall he is playing fairly relaxed, which is usually a town indicator as well. On the other hand he's also been fairly focused on just a couple players, which is a scum indicator. gonzaw: Aside from his "lol how does the setup work?" posts everything he's done screams townie to me. Like the amount of effort he's put in just seems excessive. Even I imagine myself with 100% free time I can't see myself doing that much work as scum. marvellosity: Marv. How is it possible that he posts so much but I always forget he's in the game? It's not like his posts are bad they're usually pretty on point. I've never played against him as scum so I dunno what he does then, but his filter so far looks fairly like his town filters from the games I've played with him. He tends to have a lot of targets and switch frequently, often correcting himself as town and I see that here as well. Vivax: Never played with him before. He's sort of in the solstice camp actually. First half of the filter is scummy. Especially the part where marv asked him to explain his feelings on matt and he was just like "here's filter do it yourself" LOL. On the other hand I like what he says about Milkton. On the third hand he's also playing rather focused. Null. sciberbia: Sciberbia I am your biggest fan. I love the way you post. I have no idea what your alignment is but if everyone posted like you this game would be easy. Keirathi: Well he's conditional town or conditional scum at this point. Like I think he was way too neutral in the beginning as someone else pointed out but he's also onto dropbear as I am. Milktonkram: I think his case and vote on me are bs bs bs... but incredibly random. Like I don't know why he does that as scum. I actually can't figure him out at all to be honest. strongandbig: dear god this is tiring to make lol no wonder no one ever follows my plans. Anyway. I think he's playing pretty freely. I think he was scum in space station? He was more uptight then. Notice how tali is suspicious of everyone but gonzaw. I find this incredibly strange since I don't think anyone, including gonzaw, had done enough to prove themselves either way at that point. Just look at the post. Tali finds reasons to be suspicious of every other player. Most of his opinions are along the lines of this, "Player X does this, but..." "I like this about Player Y, however..." etc. Gonzaw is very strangely above suspicion. I'll hopefully have more coming soon. I'm running out to grab a bite to eat and then I'll continue with my findings. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Day 1: - He lightly defends talismania from pressure. - He clears talismania from suspicion for some flimsy reasoning. Goes so far as to say we shouldn't lynch him D1. About talismania: Talis' plan was "bad" but that alone doesn't make him scum. When he posted he seemed to interact with people in a genuine way I think. The way he was discussing the RB deal and shit made me think he was town, mostly because he was eager to discuss it and interact with me/others. I think he seems townie for now, so I wouldn't want him lynched D1. - Ends up voting Vivax. Night 1: - Announces he will post cases on S&B and talismania. - Posts a case on talismania. + Show Spoiler + I'm getting a little bit suspicious of talis because of his refusal to do anything constructive since he made his case on Dropbear. Him appearing sporadically ever since, posting some irrelevant stuff and one-liners don't make me feel any good. Not only that he seemed to purposefully ignore the Vivax issue at all when he was active. Basically, he "seeemed" pro town before this post: But after that his play crumbled. He spent a little time responding to Dropbear (more like responding to Dropbear's criticism though). Completely removal from the current town discussion and just tries to stay on his little own world of him FoSing Dropbear and that's it. That seemed suspicious After that he just seems to be "there"; not doing anything basically This post raised some flags because how out of context it was (regarding talis' previous posts), and how sudden and weird. Marv was being a pain in the ass to me (admit it >_> ) basically since the game started so him getting pissed about it made sense. But talis never made any comment about me "going on about the setup" and shit, so what the hell does he mean when he says that? There's no context (like with marv) where I know how talis thinks about me. Wtf is "how much of this stuff you can get away with"? What stuff? This seemed very out of place. Again, there was a Vivax vs Dropbear discussion going on and him posting this instead of trying to contribute to that discussion, he comes out of nowhere with an out of place post that doesn't do shit (it seriously reminds me of what S&B is doing this game, but I'll get to that later). After that it's just a bunch of pointless one-liners about not wanting to switch and shit. Like...they don't convince me at all; we are minutes before the lynch and he only has time to post some useless oneliners. What about the informative posts he made at the beginning of the game? Where the hell are those? This change in his play make me suspicious of him. ...however if Dropbear is scum it kinds of makes me doubt this suspicion as well (since that seemed a way too risky bus, since Dropbear COULD have been lynched). ....hmm, I'm starting to think that Dropbear might have been town after all and scum didn't really care about this lynch since it was between 2 townies. But I'll leave that out in the air and not dwell too much on that, Dropbear doesn't seem too townie to me and could easily be scum, but trying to make sense of this situation is kind of hard. Oh well shit I'll make a post about S&B next (this took a while) -Posts a case on S&B. States that he prefers a lynch on S&B. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 13:32 gonzaw wrote: About S&B: I want to lynch this guy tomorrow. I've already posted some shit about his earlier posts (fluff and stuff) I don't like how he's accusing me, discrediting me and flinging shit at me every time he can. The worst thing is that it has only to do with setup talk. That's the only thing he's posting about me when he's accusing me, here: He only finds me suspicious because of the setup talk; and it's bullshit. Not only that but I already said he was way too overdramatic and "trying to be pro-town" with that last post of his. Again I don't like these accusations he has of me (he has mentioned 0 substance on why I'm scum). What's more, I don't like this "grudge" he has about me based on my play on MTG mafia (which he still refuses to explain). That "grudge" seems fake as hell. Every time I accuse him he acts all frustrated and posts "gonzaw you are always accusing me you are posting like a toilet, etc" I already posted before that this seems fake, since there is NO indication for him to be that frustrated at me (seriously, check my filter and find any reason why he would be that frustrated, or why he would be this frustrated instead of Keirath or Dropbear whom I actually "tunneled" more than him, hell I never even voted S&B). However he always finds the time to post that when I accuse him, and he just disregards everything I say with that. That seems like an obvious attempt to reflect attention, I can't accuse him of anything since he posts "oh you are accusing me again", acts like I'm tunneling him for no reason similarly to other games, and just drops the subject Scummy as fuck. His defense didn't seem "townie" at all since he was needlessly aggressive: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=15#292 It reminded me of Risen's defense on LIII, where i accused him and he acted all offended, aggressive and mighty and call me shit and stuff (Risen was scum there). Oh wait I'm not done. I'll say that S&B FoSed Keirathi initially, and then backed off him and that seems townie. Yet he can still do it as scum so I won't take it into account (based on all the rest scummy stuff he did). The tone of this post seems way too weird to me. With phrases like "trololol", the way he phrases stuff, etc don't make me think he's paying too much attention to the game or cares too much about it (if you disagree with this doesn't matter just ignore it). His reads seem way too weird as well, and he doesn't really back them up at all (his read on me, vivex, etc). His vote on solstice is very bad: He's using meta ALONE about something IRRELEVANT (he asks "more insightful questions" when he's town, and he's "asking questions" here....how the hell is that relevant?) It may seem like he did this post in a rush and was just reading stuff, thinking solstice was town, then rereading his filter and thinking he was scum and didn't have time to actually say why, but I don't really buy it. I already mentioned something about him in that talis post. He then posts sporadically and not interested in any discussion or being part of them at all. I mean, he comes out of nowhere to manipulate marv into going against solstice again Nice ninja-vote there that sealed Vivax's fate. Like, he seems too scummy and nothing like his play in MTG (he was more active in discussion there, his posts made more sense, he wasn't this "trollish" and he didn't just post out of nowhere with random stuff and didn't care about the current discussion, at least not when he was active). I could see him posting some stuff as town (like asking me about why I'm "not caring" about the setup, flip-flopping on his solstice read in that post seems like he was a townie changing his mind quickly, him backing off keiarth), but his attitude and content convince me otherwise. Sorry if this was long but I had a LOT of things to say about S&B Day 2: - Does the gonzaw thing. - I believe he is the 3rd to vote talismania after both austinmcc and sciberbia. Now let's analyze his actions. He states he doesn't want a talismania lynch D1. It's possible that he was defending his scumbuddy. Not much more to say about it. Moving on to N2, he makes cases against both S&B and tali, stating that the case against S&B is the one he favors. This is a really safe play by scum. It puts his effort behind an S&B lynch, while still leaving him open to bus tali if the situation called for it. On Day 3 he votes for talismania after throwing out pressure on Mattchew and DropBear. What was the tipping point for gonzaw? On July 16 2012 12:41 gonzaw wrote: Before going into the talis/solstice stuff, a question for sciberbia: Why is it you think me and talis are "linked as scumbuddies"? Other than that what "gut feeling" do you get about me? He noticed that sciberbia was connecting him and talismania, and thus voted tali in order to try and break that connection. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
On July 20 2012 05:24 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: "Ehmm...no Read N1 again, I'm clearly backing off pushing S&B at that time and having mixed feelings about him. At all I'm leaning more on "bussing" talis than acccusing S&B or anything else. Are you scum Milton? Your play this past day seems to indicate so to me" At the beginning of your case against him you state, "I want to lynch this guy tomorrow." I took that as meaning that he was your top scum read at the time. Later on I do see that you back off of him a bit. I missed that part. My apologies. My latest case against you was meant to show how your line of play makes sense as scum. I think it does. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I've considered the Mattchew lynch. There are things about his play that don't sit well with me, but I've given him the BOTD because his case against gonzaw was pretty good. If you can drum up support, I'll consider him. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Here's why: - His reads haven't shifted much. I see this as scummy, not townie. I looked back and he was finding gonzaw scummy from, I believe, the middle of D2. - His attempt to take credit for the tali lynch. - He's avoided commenting on players outside of his tunnel-vision. I can see scum motivation for all these things. ##Unvote ##Vote: Mattchew | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
4) Milton: Holy shit this post looks bad. As much as the cases against gonzaw look scummy, theres no way I would say he's spewing shit and half-baked opinions all over the thread. The roleblock claim is weird, but I can't necessarily think it is scummy if there's the possibility that marv was RB'd and shot night 1. @ Keirathi Have you tried reading through gonzaw's filter, much less try and keep track of the opinions he's constantly spouting? It's enough to get anyone frustrated. I let my temper out a little bit there. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
@ Keirathi My question was a rhetorical one. Thanks for answering though. I was attempting to show why I was upset at the time I posted that. I had been neck deep in gonzaw's filter for a while and it was wearing on my nerves. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Mattchew has largely kept his commentary on the players he is tunneling. This is a good scum tactic that keeps him from ever contradicting himself or slipping. His play for credit in the talismania lynch was also pretty damn scummy. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
It's mostly a gut feeling. There's also a little post that I missed from talismania. I don't have time to quote it. I might later though. It gave me the impression that he was planning to sheep behind you for the rest of the game. His awkward posts make a bit more sense that way. I'm still not 100% sure on you. I'm going to wait and see how Mattchew flips. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I'm Jim Raynor and I shoot big guns!!!!! | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I owe you some pleasure time, heh heh Gonzaw, you get the begrudging pleasure time. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
sciberbia's approach to the 1st lynch: + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 06:42 sciberbia wrote: OK guys we have to lynch today! I think there is least resistance to a dropbear lynch. I'd be willing to consolidate on dropbear. Is anyone strongly opposed to a dropbear lynch? Here he is willing to vote for dropbear because there is "least resistance" to a dropbear lynch. This does not sit well with me, particularly because earlier he had posted this regarding dropbear. On July 14 2012 06:18 sciberbia wrote: Sorry I just spotted this while going through your filter. In short, I am pretty neutral on him. His first post feels townie to me. His next couple posts feel sketchy. His vote on vivax is not a scumtell IMO. I think scum would be extremely wary of voting with so little reasoning. His conviction in a talis & vivax scumteam seems a bit suspicious. I really just don't have a strong feel on him one way or the other. I don't see how he's willing to consolidate on DropBear when earlier he's got a pretty neutral read on him. Most townies will do their best to push whichever lynch they think is better. If you look at our 2nd and 3rd lynch, sciberbia pushed pretty hard for the lynches to go his way. I've come to suspect that our first lynch was between two townies, considering the fact that now I have a fairly strong town read on DropBear. Townies didn't know that at the time and would have been extremely invested in the lynch. Scum would know that we were picking between two townies, and thus wouldn't care as much. Sciberbia didn't seem too invested in our 1st lynch, especially compared to how hard he pushed these last two lynch efforts. True, sciberbia did qualify his statement with this On July 14 2012 06:44 sciberbia wrote: @Risen I'd love to lynch Vivax at this point but there just doesn't seem to be enough support for it. but I still feel like he wasn't truly invested in how the 1st lynch turned out. I'm also wary of how easily he was convinced of Vivax's townieness. On July 14 2012 06:55 sciberbia wrote: oh ow NOW vivax is giving me a really townie feel. Does anybody else see his last two posts as townie? This sudden change of opinion feels rather forced. I feel like it's a bit of a show. sciberbia's approach to the 2nd lynch: + Show Spoiler + We all know the story, he pushed the talismania lynch really hard. I feel like both Mattchew and sciberbia came out of nowhere and put their full weight behind a talismania lynch. I don't remember who posted this, but they said that if sciberbia had bussed talismania it would have been an "old school style bus" where the player tunnels their scum buddy hardcore. Well we now know that's what Mattchew did, why not sciberbia too? This is a minor point and it could be incorrect, but with Mattchew so all-in on a talismania lynch I almost find it likely that his scumbuddy was also pushing for a tali lynch. Why get town cred for one player when you can get it for two, correct? Here are a few examples of him pushing the talismania lynch. Hopefully you can spot the differences between his attitude in the D1 lynch and the D2 lynch. On July 15 2012 20:42 sciberbia wrote: I feel much better about my reads right now than I did D1. Here are top 3 most suspicious: 1) talismania: I really want to lynch him. 2) gonzaw: I have a few minor points against him, but other than that it's gut feeling. He reminds me a lot of mafia Xatalos from NMM XV. gonzaw and talis are linked as scumbuddies in my mind. I want to see talis flip red before we lynch gonzaw. 3) keirathi: still seems somewhat suspicious; mostly for reasons I've already stated I really need a break from this game so I'm just going to make a case on talismania before getting some much-needed sleep. It's almost 7am here. I'll post thoughts on other people tomorrow. My case on talismania fixation on his plan This has already been talked about in other cases; those of austinmcc and miltonkram I believe. It's a bit weird how wrapped up he gets in proposing his plan, defending his plan, and analyzing reactions to his plan. In particular, I find his assemblage of reactions suspicious: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 00:43 talismania wrote: Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan (for those who care) + Show Spoiler + marvellosity On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote: naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over) I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons. Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense. Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan! People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. Predictably shits on it, suggests policy lynching me out of his annoyance that I keep proposing these dumb plans. gonzaw On July 12 2012 09:36 gonzaw wrote: So, if the lynch was right now I'd want to kill one of these 3 guys: You can see the recurring theme in all 3 (just 1 post, promising something/appearing they are eager to start but not doing anything else later). marv, talismania, anybody active, what do you think about these guys? If you had to kill one of them which one would you choose and why? (if you don't want to kill anyone then say so). Also this guy could die too: But at least he put a little bit more effort (although that's not town-telling) Dropbear and Milton haven't even posted, but well we can't do anything about it. Actually follows the plan - as I said seems rather townie. Especially the timing. Mattchew On July 12 2012 10:46 Mattchew wrote: Also, talis has the worst plan ever with his 3 people thing. That just allows people to half ass push some stupid reads and then connections theories run wild and everything turns to shit shits on it solstice On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote: Keirathi, assuming you are still around... why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan? I actually don't see him reacting to it at all yet he asks keirathi about it. Interesting. He did react to gonzaw's post reacting to mine. austinmcc On July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote: That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning. Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw? Actually this reads scummy again on the second go-round too. He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all. Keirathi On July 12 2012 11:54 Keirathi wrote: Sorry was getting dinner. I was verbose because I have some shared experience with sciberbia, whom I was replying to. I know that most (all?) of his TL mafia experience was in newbie games, and the dynamic is just different when you can assume that people know how to play the game. As far as talismania's plan, I feel like it makes it too easy for mafia to blend in. The more townies you have making arguments against other townies, the easier you can push mislynches and not have to take any blame for them. There are other things wrong with it, but Mattchew and austin beat me to it. No need rehashing what they said. Mmm I think this is innocuous. He might not even have responded if he hadn't been asked to. DropBear On July 12 2012 15:18 DropBear wrote: This is silly. This isn't going to happen and would just waste time. On the majority lynch, day 1 this tends to be a right kerfuffle. I can't think of any system that has ever worked on day 1 in games I have been part of. So fuck a system, we deal with it when the time comes. There should be solid candidates by then anyway. Actually this doesn't sit that well with me at all. Conversation had started to move on and then he brings it back to my plan and says the same shit everyone else did. I also don't like his misrepresentation of my views on the roleblocker's use of their power. strongandbig On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote: Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET. Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] + The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that. NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you. + Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy. He's right about me always pushing this idea althoguh I think he's overreacting to marv's reaction. So actually not that many people commented on it even though I thought like everyone did oops. My views: scummy responses: austinmcc, dropbear null responses: marv, mattchew, keirathi, strongandbig townie response: gonzaw did not respond directly although was in the thread: Risen, sciberbia, solstice This just feels like one of those busy-work summaries that scum do to make it look like they are contributing. It also ties in with his insisting that his plan has promoted discussion. Overall, all this talk about the plan is unproductive and slightly suspicious. consistently wishy/washy Here are some examples of some wishy/washiness. Several of these raise yellow flags for me: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2012 07:54 talismania wrote:I don't like milkton's last post either. There's a touch of omgus to my feelings there but I also think his argument he just made about me doesn't make much sense. Although come to think of it I dunno why he would come in out of the cold and start making a case on me does seem a bit random as scum. austin's reply to my poke at his post was rather overwrought which fits with my model of him as nervous scum but I guess that could just be the way the guy is too. solstice you said you know him - what do you make of it? + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 01:32 talismania wrote: solstice: I really like the case marv made on him, actually, but for some reason I don't know if I can move beyond a null on him. Like I think the first half of his filter is scummy (the part marv showed), the second half townie. Overall he is playing fairly relaxed, which is usually a town indicator as well. On the other hand he's also been fairly focused on just a couple players, which is a scum indicator. Keirathi: Well he's conditional town or conditional scum at this point. Like I think he was way too neutral in the beginning as someone else pointed out but he's also onto dropbear as I am. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 01:43 talismania wrote: actually that is a decent question. I originally ranked them that way in my head from way back when I analyzed reactions to my posts and it sort of has stuck since then. Mmm I guess thinking it over I can't think of a fantastic reason for one over the other to be honest with you. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 06:00 talismania wrote: @risen I don't know what to make of the risen v vivax to be honest. I liked your case against him but I'm still stuck on dropbear. and if dropbear is scum I can't see vivax being scum either. mmm I better not be tunneling again like I did last time to HiroPro. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 06:08 talismania wrote: I dunno. I'm starting to think my case on austin is actually stronger than my case on dropbear was in the first place to be perfectly honest. However milton and keirathi also brought up good points on dropbear I think. Unless they were just trying to nudge a bandwagon along? Mmm shit. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 06:39 talismania wrote: I kinda want to but I kinda don't. My feelings atm are that worst comes to worst, if I have to be wrong about someone I'd rather have a dead town dropbear than a dead town austin because at least austin seems to be trying. especially that last one. seriously wtf.. I don't like his approach to the lynch I feel like we were just lynching between a bunch of townies yesterday. If I had to guess, I'd say there is only 1 scum between our many lynch candidates: dropbear, vivax, miltonkram, s0Lstice, austinmcc, risen, and keirathi. So I think the mafia must have felt very at ease and not really cared too much who actually got lynched. Talis was just too calm in the hour leading up to the lynch. For example, what was he doing in between these two posts: + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 06:08 talismania wrote: I dunno. I'm starting to think my case on austin is actually stronger than my case on dropbear was in the first place to be perfectly honest. However milton and keirathi also brought up good points on dropbear I think. Unless they were just trying to nudge a bandwagon along? Mmm shit. Where has gonzaw gone? I kinda expect him to be in here cracking the whip near deadline. On July 14 2012 06:39 talismania wrote: I kinda want to but I kinda don't. My feelings atm are that worst comes to worst, if I have to be wrong about someone I'd rather have a dead town dropbear than a dead town austin because at least austin seems to be trying. This was a crucial 31 minutes. I don't think any of us actually had any idea who would end up being lynched at this time. But what was talis doing? Looks like he was just sitting around waiting for us to lynch a townie. In the last hour before the lynch, he really does nothing productive at all. He just says a bunch of neutralish things that don't really go anywhere. I also have serious problems with this post just after we lynched vivax: For reference, here is the full extent of his defense on Vivax: Seriously? He says that he hopes he is "completely wrong" about vivax, but he hardly defended Vivax at all. If he really felt strongly about Vivax being town, he should have been positively shouting at people like me/marv/austin/strongandbig to put votes on dropbear instead of vivax, especially seeing as dropbear was supposedly his #1 scumread. But he was just saying useless shit like this: + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 06:39 talismania wrote: I kinda want to but I kinda don't. My feelings atm are that worst comes to worst, if I have to be wrong about someone I'd rather have a dead town dropbear than a dead town austin because at least austin seems to be trying. On July 14 2012 06:54 talismania wrote: argh wtf I don't want to swtich but I will if we need too. On July 14 2012 06:57 talismania wrote: jesus risen why are you so excited? According to what talis has said, he really thought dropbear was scum, and he really thought vivax was town. I was a hell of a lot less sure than talis supposedly was, and even I was more invested in the lynch. All of his posts leading up to the lynch seriously bother me. throws suspicion on easy targets (my townreads) He throws suspicion on a bunch of easy targets: dropbear, austin, risen, s0Lstice, milton. In fact, he threw suspicion onto just about every lynch candidate, and onto nobody that was not a lynch candidate. His reads are just going with the flow. I feel like he is just gonzaw's parrot. He's quite friendly with both gonzaw and marv (people with most thread control IMO). does not defend his townreads He never makes an against-the-grain townread. In his entire filter, I don't think he defends anybody at all. He supposedly had townreads on vivax, strongandbig, and mattchew, all 3 of which were under fire at some point, and none of which he did any defending for. This is suspicious to me. I have a really good feeling about this case. Can we please lynch talis today? ##Vote talismania I'd just like to note how sciberbia has laid his plan out here. Have you noticed him deviate from his plan of lynching talismania, then pursuing a lynch against gonzaw? He hasn't. I find this incredibly suspicious since town will often deviate from any plans they make whenever new evidence presents itself. It's far more likely for scum to make a plan and then follow it through to completion. Here's a few other examples of him pushing the tali lynch. On July 16 2012 08:53 sciberbia wrote: @s0Lstice Can you look at the cases on talis and reread his filter? I want your opinion on him. I really think we should lynch him. On July 16 2012 09:02 sciberbia wrote: @gonzaw I'll post my thoughts on s&b next. Please post your most current thoughts on talis. Do you recall sciberbia pushing the Vivax lynch this hard? I sure don't. Shit, I just noticed that the endgame is being posted. I'll just toss this out there and see if I was correct. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Eh, I'm a little frustrated that I spent that much time in sciberbia's filter. But since we're winning this game all is forgiven @ Keirathi I thought that scib's change of opinion could have just been for show N2. Anyway, my case against scib wasn't complete when I posted it. I would have spent more time on it if I hadn't seen that the endgame was about to go up. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Dude, no worries. We won! I'm freaking excited about that. My first win as a townie! + Show Spoiler + FUUUUUUUUCKCCKCKCKCKCKCK YEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I would have been so pissed if your cop claim was fake and I had wasted that much time vetting your claim. It almost didn't give me enough time to read up and Mattchew and get convinced to vote for him. Thank you for being a real cop. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I feel like a pretty decent tell against Mattchew was that he wasn't willing to comment often on player's outside of those he was tunneling. It's an extremely convenient way of playing as scum. That was a pretty major difference I noticed between this game and the LVI game that s0Lstice pointed out. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I found s0Lstice's case against Mattchew far more concise and convincing. One of the issues with your post-everything-I-think style is that it tends to spread your cases out over several posts and make it difficult to follow your train of thought. If you feel the need to post so much, I'd suggest you go back every once in a while and consolidate your cases against other players into one well thought out post. It would make it a lot easier on your townie brethren. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Thanks for pointing that out. There are a few things that I really dislike about my play this game though. I feel like I wasn't confident enough in the reads that I made and that I was talked out of them too easily. I'm really glad I listened to s0Lstice near the end of D3, but I should have done it sooner and more thoroughly looked into the case against Mattchew. It's fairly lucky that I was able to get my tunnel vision off of gonzaw for long enough to give the case on Mattchew some thought. I'll take my lumps and improve as best I can. Thanks for hosting NSH! | ||
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