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On July 13 2012 08:15 strongandbig wrote:
- keirathi is probably scum. combination of gut read plus he posted a couple things that look like what I would have done in my scum game when i was uber nub. look at his filter - he accuses two people but doesn't commit to either accusation. That in itself is suspect but not necessarily scum; but the accusations are for reasons that don't make sense. he accuses tali for saying his own plan is stupid and he accuses me for not calling tali scum b/c of his plan, when I was actually saying how I did exactly that in a previous game and tali was town. ##vote: keirathi (for now).
No, I called you out because you are giving him a free ride for a bad plan just because he was town and proposed a similar plan when he was town in another game. That doesn't make sense. Either you think proposing the plan is scummy so you push him (like you said you did in the previous game), or you don't think its scummy. You're being inconsistent to the point of defending him for bad play.
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On July 13 2012 08:38 sciberbia wrote:
These posts give me the feeling that Keirathi is just looking for easy posts to make. Especially the last one. I don't know why Keirathi feels the need to defend Talis from a very minor accusation from Mattchew.
Why wouldn't I defend a completely baseless accusation? He was flat out wrong. People making accusations keeps the game flowing. People making wrong accusations builds false cases and gets mislynches.
On July 13 2012 08:38 sciberbia wrote:
I could probably look through every other player's filter right now and find an original, insightful reason for accusing somebody. But all of Keirathi's accusations are based off evidence that had already been mentioned or just seems trivial and unconvincing.
Not really much I can say to that, because people made their points while I was sleeping. I was specifically asked what things I found scummy, so I replied. If I refused to reply, then I would have looked scummy too.
On July 13 2012 08:38 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:38 Keirathi wrote:
The only things that have thrown up yellow flags so far were people proposing less than optimal (read: bad) policy plans, ie talis, but I don't feel that was necessarily out of a scum mindset, just didn't think it through very well. However, like I said, its about patterns in behavior which is why I keep notes the way I do (which you saw in NMM XIX).
Here is the first time Keirathi talks about anything he finds even mildly suspicious, and only after I prompted him for it. He repeats the already-covered "bad plans" but doesn't really go anywhere with it. I asked him for suspicions and he wrote a few sentences which say basically nothing.
Again, I was specifically asked pressed for information. What am I supposed to do, stay silent?
I said it before, and proved it in Newbie XVIII: patterns are more important than any single thing. There obviously hadn't been enough time to develop consistent patterns.
On July 13 2012 08:38 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 03:33 Keirathi wrote:On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote:
pardon me for some half-assed musing:
...
So I was going back through the thread looking for more information, when this leaped out at me. When I read it the first time through, I didn't think anything of it because I don't have previous experience with you, but if you propose the same plan in every game you play in, then how is it "half-assed musing" this time? It feels like you're pre-emptively making an excuse for a bad plan. And why, as a townie, are you half-assing things anyways? I don't buy into his point here at all. He brings up talismania's plan yet again, and makes some very easy criticism of Talis. "pre-emptively making an excuse for a bad plan" isn't convincing scum motivation to me. Talis's post is easy to criticize, but I think it's a stretch to say it's scummy.
Then we agree to disagree. Giving yourself an out when you're called out for bad play is mafia mentality.
The key point I was trying to make with that post, however, was why was talis saying he was proposing a plan without thinking it through (half-assing it), when it was clear to everyone else that had played with him previously that he had proposed a similar plan in those games. He even SAID that his intention was to generate discussion about it. So he had obviously put thought into what he was doing. Why say that he didn't?
On July 13 2012 08:38 sciberbia wrote:marv demanded some real reads and Keirathi posted this in response: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 06:55 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 06:18 marvellosity wrote:
Keirathi, can you stop catching up and provide your views on a person or two? Certainly. strongandbig+ Show Spoiler +On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote:Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET.
Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] +The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that.
NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you.+ Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy. He comes in by leaving himself an excuse for his inactivity that he can fall back on later, then proceeds to lay out basically an entire case based on pure speculation. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 20:46 strongandbig wrote:
Plus he even referred to the fact that he does this as town and I find him scummy for it in the same post where he did it.
So why are you letting him have a free pass for doing it this time? Together, I feel this is a decent case for him being scum but his recent reply to gonzaw's post gives him so townie cred back in my eye. I'm still keeping an eye on him. DropBearI'm mainly suspicious here of his vote for Vivax. Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 02:58 DropBear wrote:On July 13 2012 02:20 talismania wrote:On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote:
##Vote Vivax the hell? any reasons beyond what marv said? I called him out as being suss last page, do you read boy? When his previous calling out of Vivax was simply asking questions + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 01:39 DropBear wrote:Vivax I am very confused as the reasoning behind your voting so far. Why did you choose strongandbig initially? Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 18:30 Vivax wrote:
@ NSH
It's cause of a habit. I just tend to expect links in underlined words <_<.
Back to the topic:
##unvote strongandbig
Very informative post about marv there.
Wanted to vote Milton next but he posted.
He tries to make himself pretty transparent by posting his games. It's a good sign, but nothing decisive.
Speaking of meta, sciberbia doesn't look good based on that.I was with him in two games and I feel like he's being different in this one.
s0lstice already pointed out the missing fast posts we're used to see from scib at the start of the game.
That alone is forgivable given the posted reasons. But the overall gut feeling is still bad cause of the overall style. What do you mean by an informative post? Cos he made a case he must be town or something? What are the differences in sciberbia you talk about? . He never explicitly said he suspected him of being scum, and tali called him out on this and he never responded. As an aside, its pretty frustrating that so many arguments in this game are based on meta. As someone new to TL, I feel like I am disadvantaged when you all have so much extra information on each other. Both of these reads are easy criticisms of players that have already been criticized. Keirathi said strongandbig left himself "an excuse for inactivity that he could later fall back on". This seems like another stretch. strongandbig just said he was watching a movie. That's not a great excuse for inactivity and even so only buys him a couple hours. I highly doubt that a scum strongandbig would be scheming about how to get out of posting for 2-3 hours. Keirathi also criticizes strongandbig's post on marv and balance, but again this had already been covered by other people.
No, his excuse for inactivity was being in Europe and not having a cell phone data plan. That gives him an excuse to be inactive any time he wants it.
On July 13 2012 08:38 sciberbia wrote:
His suspicion of dropbear was based off the vote on vivax. This is yet another easy point to accuse somebody on (a random vote) and again had already been covered in the thread.
Again, I agree that it was already covered. I can't magically make up things when someone asks me what my reads are. I pointed out the two scummiest specific events because I was asked to.
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On July 13 2012 10:58 s0Lstice wrote:
what do you think of Miltonkram, Marv?
I'm not marv, but I'll give my initial impression of your case against him.
Your case mostly seems to be about his meta arguments, but all of them were based on games he actually played with those people, not on overall meta.
Maybe you're right that he should have gone back and looked at the overall talis meta, but I don't fault him too much for just using meta from games that he was actually a part of and not pouring over thousands of posts of other players to figure out their meta.
As an aside: your case against Risen feels stronger than your case against Milton anyways. I'm kind of suprised you voted the way you did.
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@gonzaw: You're right, you're not using meta to find scum. I never said that you were. You ARE using meta to confirm or deny cases people make though. For instance, you just did it ("Hmm, okay, I think I'll let austin slide, it does seem he posts like this when he's town,") in your reply to sciberbia about austin.
I'm not saying that that is a bad thing, but people are making arguments about me and no one can refute them with "well he always plays town like that" like they have for most of the other cases in this game.
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EBWOP: That is to say, its unfair to me, but I guess I understand it to an extent.
I have a different way of looking at the game and I don't particularly like the whole "point at finger at everything until something sticks" way that day 1 tends to play out as. I'm fairly good at making reads from connections and patterns, but not from this day 1 bullshit. If that is enough to get my lynched, then so be it. I'll play this way any time that I'm town. But at least you aren't killing off a blue, so I'm not really that upset about it.
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On July 13 2012 16:46 DropBear wrote:
I want to firmly stand by Keirathi, he is one of my strongest town reads right now.
Err, what?
How do you have a town read on me when literally everyone else has a scum read?
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@Drop: How do you feel about gonzaw's defense of Vivax+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 04:47 gonzaw wrote:About Vivax: (Fuck I need to use these tags again >_>) Marv, I don't agree with your read on Vivax either Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 07:07 Vivax wrote:
We should lynch Mattchew cause his avatar is a zerg.
Keirathi is the serial killer.I know it. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 07:21 Vivax wrote:
We don't have much movement yet, so I have used my psychic powers to determine the first scum player:
sciberbia
Let's hear his defense. I don't see a "relatively noob" scum posting like this as soon as the game starts. He "jokingly" accused 3 people by that point, and seemed cheerful about it. That's not how noob scum play (why would they try to "joke" accuse people if it puts them more in the spotlight as SOON as the game starts?), hell they even rarely post at the very beginning of the game at all, and they never appear cheerful or anything. Why? Because they are scum that's why, they have to check their scum QT, check their buddies, talk to them, think how they are going to proceed, etc. Someone more experienced could pull this off, but I even doubt that. That's what made me think Radfield wasn't scum on iGrok's game and I was right, basically no scum jumps right into the action at the very start of the game and start joking around and posting without hesitating at all. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 17:21 Vivax wrote:
##unvote strongandbig
##Vote Miltonkram
Well you said you were watching something on tv yesterday and would start calling out scum soon, so I thought you were monitoring the game.
Anyway, that was a pretty informative post about marv, you have my seal of approval for unlurking.
Now I wanna see something from Milton :p. I also don't see him posting like this as scum. His vote+unvote on S&B wouldn't make much sense to do it as scum. Why would he do that as scum? Why would he vote someone when almost nobody else had voted at all, and then unvote him immediately after when that guy posts and never speak of him again? It doesn't seem to cause any confusion or push any scum agenda, since if he wanted to cast doubt on S&B he could have continued to do so after his post. That's not entirely definitive to think he's town, but for me it's VERY definitive for not lynching him on D1.
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I'm leaning towards a vote on either Risen or DropBear.
Risen
+ Show Spoiler +On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:18 DropBear wrote:This is silly. On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote:
pardon me for some half-assed musing:
since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others). This isn't going to happen and would just waste time.
On the majority lynch, day 1 this tends to be a right kerfuffle. I can't think of any system that has ever worked on day 1 in games I have been part of. So fuck a system, we deal with it when the time comes. There should be solid candidates by then anyway. For example: this could be DropBear bussing/giving his teammate a way to backtrack on his plan or it could be scum calling out a townie. I'm not saying I even have a scumread on drop as he seems to want a pro-town environment, which is something I'm all for, but this is something that could be used to confirm a connection in my mind at a later point in time. On July 12 2012 15:22 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: He could also just be a townie doing pro-town things. This is the most likely option.
He's being extremely non-commital. Unlike Vivax, I'm not going to make a case that this was a scumslip, but it doesn't make much sense and doesn't really say what he thinks about the situation.
Then: + Show Spoiler +On July 12 2012 16:38 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 16:29 Vivax wrote:
There's no link to a voting thread in the OP methinks.Add pls?
##Vote active lurk strongandbig Yes, this is going places. I like your thinking. I just like your style, my dude. You have my vote! ##vote: Vivax
This vote could be forgiven if I had a read on him as townie, since it was a bit out of the blue for Vivax to vote S&B, but he hasn't done anything to push pro-town sentiment yet, so this is a suspiciously easy case to jump on and get a bandwagon.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 14 2012 04:06 Risen wrote:
Reading through I'm thinking vivax/keirathi/s0Lstice(or gonzaw) team. I'm not as confident on s0Lstice, though. I think he's actually reading me based on my meta, which is fine day1 since there isn't much else to go off of. Keirathi's soft defense of my strongest scum read makes me really weary of him. Vivax, of course, is my strongest scum read and I'm having a pretty difficult time believing that a town gonzaw would defend him.
Looks like my vote will be staying on Vivax. I really thought austin's case on me that concluded with a town read was just scummy b/c seriously who goes into that much detail just to end up buddying me? (Goes to the whole, he knows I'm town and therefor just found some stuff in my past games to support his "town-read" case)
I'll be gathering everything on Vivax into a single post, but I really don't think we should be lynching anyone else.
So I'm confused. You make a read that the scumteam is Vivax, me, and solstice, but you go on to make a case against austin? So do you think austin's town read on your is scummy or not? You certainly make it sound like you think it is, but he isn't in your scumteam. I don't get it.
DropBear
I still think his vote on Vivax was suspicious, but that's been talked to death, so I'll continue.
Along with tali, I feel like he was been entirely overaggressive and disruptive with thinks like + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 02:58 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 02:20 talismania wrote:On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote:
##Vote Vivax the hell? any reasons beyond what marv said? I called him out as being suss last page, do you read boy?
However, with Risen being my strongest read right now, this really bothers me:
On July 14 2012 02:40 DropBear wrote:
I do not support a Risen lynch. He stated that he is busy and I liked some of his earlier stuff once he got past filler about smilies.
Maybe a scum wouldn't just outright defend a teamate like that on day1, but its such a flimsy reason that it feels like he could get away with it later if they are both scum.
Last point: he really hasn't made much of a case on Vivax despite voting him and continuing to vote him.
His only posts that even mention Vivax at all: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 01:39 DropBear wrote:Vivax I am very confused as the reasoning behind your voting so far. Why did you choose strongandbig initially? Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 18:30 Vivax wrote:
@ NSH
It's cause of a habit. I just tend to expect links in underlined words <_<.
Back to the topic:
##unvote strongandbig
Very informative post about marv there.
Wanted to vote Milton next but he posted.
He tries to make himself pretty transparent by posting his games. It's a good sign, but nothing decisive.
Speaking of meta, sciberbia doesn't look good based on that.I was with him in two games and I feel like he's being different in this one.
s0lstice already pointed out the missing fast posts we're used to see from scib at the start of the game.
That alone is forgivable given the posted reasons. But the overall gut feeling is still bad cause of the overall style. What do you mean by an informative post? Cos he made a case he must be town or something? What are the differences in sciberbia you talk about? On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote:
##Vote Vivax On July 13 2012 02:58 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 02:20 talismania wrote:On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote:
##Vote Vivax the hell? any reasons beyond what marv said? I called him out as being suss last page, do you read boy? On July 13 2012 17:01 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 09:07 Vivax wrote:I'm not comfortable with a tali lynch. Comparing filters I found Miltonkrams filter to be fairly empty and he targetted the easy target. He posted 1. A list of his games to make himself available for a metacheck. 2. He comments on Talis plan being bad, and that being reason enough to be scummy. My impression of talis plan gone bad so far: It's a magnet for players with no/bad cases to have a reason to post something accusing. The downside is that it might have triggered policy discussion and a lot of chaos, while promising a lot of clarity by forcing players to take a hard stance, so talis plan was risky from a town perspective, and I'd leave it at that. He said it worked in bastard mafia, let's leave it at that: It won't be used here. 3. On July 13 2012 06:35 Miltonkram wrote:
I don't find the fact that he came up with the plan scummy, I find the amount of time he's spent defending himself from the fallout of his plan scummy. I think he's spent 3 or 4 posts just defending himself.
Defending oneself isn't scummy. If it's really the only thing you do, then yes, but Milton already knows that it's not the only thing tali is doing: On July 13 2012 06:48 Miltonkram wrote:
EBWOP: I didn't notice that talismania was actually putting a fair amount of pressure on austinmcc. I still find the amount of time he's spent talking about his proposal scummy, but he has put a small amount of pressure on players. still seems to firmly believe in a scum tali. He doesn't have any other reads. He comments on Keirathi and sciberbia being unreadable to him. I'll go for Milton if I don't see some arguments to his defense. I'll defend Milton for you  He started late so hasn't posted as much. We knew that was happening before the games started. Your point 1 directly helps people get a read on him. This is extremely positive town play. In your point 2, you say how the plan allows pointless posting and how that doesn't help town, but then turn around and lambast Milton for pointing this out. Contradiction much? There is no real pressure from talismania on austin at all. Milton is right, talismania IS only defending the plan and not committing to accusations. Three reads is enough for day 1, no? Posting your read on every single person is just clutter. You should be less obvious in defending your buddy. SCUM TEAM
Vivax
talismania On July 14 2012 02:40 DropBear wrote:
HOST YOU MISSED MY VOTE FOR VIVAX
I am not going to be here for lynch time, it's 4am my time.
I am voting for Vivax still. I would like to see the lynch between him and talismania.
I do not support a Milton lynch. I have already said this.
I do not support a Risen lynch. He stated that he is busy and I liked some of his earlier stuff once he got past filler about smilies.
On July 14 2012 02:55 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 02:43 austinmcc wrote:On July 14 2012 02:40 DropBear wrote:
I do not support a Risen lynch. He stated that he is busy and I liked some of his earlier stuff once he got past filler about smilies.
Specifics please This aimed at gonzaw. Made perfect sense, the thread was barely 4 pages old and gonzaw was saying people were lurking. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 09:49 Risen wrote:
Any particular reason you're trying to push something on people with a low post count in thread so early? Didn't even know lurking was possible at this point. So you're either an extremely eager townie or scum looking for easy targets to push early. This because Vivax is scum. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 16:38 Risen wrote:On July 12 2012 16:29 Vivax wrote:
There's no link to a voting thread in the OP methinks.Add pls?
##Vote active lurk strongandbig Yes, this is going places. I like your thinking. I just like your style, my dude. You have my vote! ##vote: Vivax
There's not a case in there, just a lot of saying Vivax is scum without any reasoning to back it up.
Pre-post edit: @austin - regarding Vivax, his early play being in the spotlight, plus him being Crazy(TM) as town (in Newbie XVIII he fake claimed DT as town, and even though he was right, cost us a lot of timer arguing and would have lost us the game if he was wrong), I just feel like for now that he's reasonably townie.
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On July 14 2012 05:16 Risen wrote:
Keirathi please update your thoughts on me regarding the case I have just posted.........
I will if you will respond to what I said about you, particularly the part involving austin.
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On July 14 2012 05:25 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 05:22 Keirathi wrote:On July 14 2012 05:16 Risen wrote:
Keirathi please update your thoughts on me regarding the case I have just posted......... I will if you will respond to what I said about you, particularly the part involving austin. What about it? I thought he was being scummy b/c who makes a case that big and concludes towny? After logical thinking on my part, this isn't a reason to vote for him. As I said when I originally posted I would be voting for him I was driving and mainly just skimming the thread on my phone. I also like how in order for you to actually do your job as a towny I have to respond to you. Really?
You asked me to update my thoughts on you. How you responded to the most important section of my post has more bearing on my thoughts towards you than your case on Vivax does.
I'll agree with you that your case on Vivax has some merit, but I feel like Vivax is playing like the crazy Vivax I've played with before as a townie. Not that that is proof, but its reason enough for me not to vote him today.
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On July 14 2012 05:34 marvellosity wrote:
already commented on Vivax, see above
I said earlier I didn't want to lynch Dropbear, now I'm not so sure. He's pushing Vivax on the basis of practically nothing, and he came out strongly defending Milton - I believe others thought scum wouldn't do this - only because he was having an argument with his scumread Vivax
He also says Keirathi is a strong townread with no explanation.
What have we got to hold Dropbear accountable for so far??
He said he meant Milton, not me. It was a strange slip though.
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On July 14 2012 05:47 Risen wrote:Hey marv wanna see something funny? Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 05:21 marvellosity wrote:I'm not sure I can get behind a Vivax lynch. His scum filter from Newbie XVI is here where he lurked and summarised stuff. Here he is active and pushing stuff, even if he's doing it badly. Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 03:32 marvellosity wrote:
i.e. all the talk about meta is a way of contributing without actually contributing
Now you're reaching. He said talking about meta is a way of contributing without contributing, not that using meta in arguments is useless.
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On July 14 2012 05:51 Risen wrote:
EBWOP: And NOW I'm reaching? So everything before is ok, but NOW I'm reaching. If I've only just started reaching what do you think of my case Keirathi?
I already said what I thought of your case.
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EBWOP:
On July 14 2012 05:32 Keirathi wrote:
I'll agree with you that your case on Vivax has some merit, but I feel like Vivax is playing like the crazy Vivax I've played with before as a townie. Not that that is proof, but its reason enough for me not to vote him today.
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On July 14 2012 05:56 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 05:32 Keirathi wrote:On July 14 2012 05:25 Risen wrote:On July 14 2012 05:22 Keirathi wrote:On July 14 2012 05:16 Risen wrote:
Keirathi please update your thoughts on me regarding the case I have just posted......... I will if you will respond to what I said about you, particularly the part involving austin. What about it? I thought he was being scummy b/c who makes a case that big and concludes towny? After logical thinking on my part, this isn't a reason to vote for him. As I said when I originally posted I would be voting for him I was driving and mainly just skimming the thread on my phone. I also like how in order for you to actually do your job as a towny I have to respond to you. Really? You asked me to update my thoughts on you. How you responded to the most important section of my post has more bearing on my thoughts towards you than your case on Vivax does. I'll agree with you that your case on Vivax has some merit, but I feel like Vivax is playing like the crazy Vivax I've played with before as a townie. Not that that is proof, but its reason enough for me not to vote him today. That's your response. That's your reasoning. My case has merit, but whatever I'm still not voting for him b/c of meta. Got it.
I think there are better cases today than Vivax. I fail to see how that is bad reasoning. Does your post have merit? Yes. Does it have more merit than cases against you or Drop? Not to me.
I'm not really sure what to make of you coming in all of a sudden at the deadline and balls-to-the-wall tunneling someone.
So I'm going to:
##Vote DropBear
For now.
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@sciberbia: what about the fact that DropBear has literally posted 0 reasoning whatsoever behind why he's pushing Vivax so hard?
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EBWOP: for clarity, my read on him
DropBearI still think his vote on Vivax was suspicious, but that's been talked to death, so I'll continue. Along with tali, I feel like he was been entirely overaggressive and disruptive with thinks like + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 02:58 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 02:20 talismania wrote:On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote:
##Vote Vivax the hell? any reasons beyond what marv said? I called him out as being suss last page, do you read boy? , but he refuted that with some meta argument, so I'll give him the BotD for that just being the way he plays. However, with Risen being my strongest read right now, this really bothers me: Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 02:40 DropBear wrote:
I do not support a Risen lynch. He stated that he is busy and I liked some of his earlier stuff once he got past filler about smilies.
Maybe a scum wouldn't just outright defend a teamate like that on day1, but its such a flimsy reason that it feels like he could get away with it later if they are both scum. Last point: he really hasn't made much of a case on Vivax despite voting him and continuing to vote him. His only posts that even mention Vivax at all: + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 01:39 DropBear wrote:Vivax I am very confused as the reasoning behind your voting so far. Why did you choose strongandbig initially? Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 18:30 Vivax wrote:
@ NSH
It's cause of a habit. I just tend to expect links in underlined words <_<.
Back to the topic:
##unvote strongandbig
Very informative post about marv there.
Wanted to vote Milton next but he posted.
He tries to make himself pretty transparent by posting his games. It's a good sign, but nothing decisive.
Speaking of meta, sciberbia doesn't look good based on that.I was with him in two games and I feel like he's being different in this one.
s0lstice already pointed out the missing fast posts we're used to see from scib at the start of the game.
That alone is forgivable given the posted reasons. But the overall gut feeling is still bad cause of the overall style. What do you mean by an informative post? Cos he made a case he must be town or something? What are the differences in sciberbia you talk about? On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote:
##Vote Vivax On July 13 2012 02:58 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 02:20 talismania wrote:On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote:
##Vote Vivax the hell? any reasons beyond what marv said? I called him out as being suss last page, do you read boy? On July 13 2012 17:01 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 09:07 Vivax wrote:I'm not comfortable with a tali lynch. Comparing filters I found Miltonkrams filter to be fairly empty and he targetted the easy target. He posted 1. A list of his games to make himself available for a metacheck. 2. He comments on Talis plan being bad, and that being reason enough to be scummy. My impression of talis plan gone bad so far: It's a magnet for players with no/bad cases to have a reason to post something accusing. The downside is that it might have triggered policy discussion and a lot of chaos, while promising a lot of clarity by forcing players to take a hard stance, so talis plan was risky from a town perspective, and I'd leave it at that. He said it worked in bastard mafia, let's leave it at that: It won't be used here. 3. On July 13 2012 06:35 Miltonkram wrote:
I don't find the fact that he came up with the plan scummy, I find the amount of time he's spent defending himself from the fallout of his plan scummy. I think he's spent 3 or 4 posts just defending himself.
Defending oneself isn't scummy. If it's really the only thing you do, then yes, but Milton already knows that it's not the only thing tali is doing: On July 13 2012 06:48 Miltonkram wrote:
EBWOP: I didn't notice that talismania was actually putting a fair amount of pressure on austinmcc. I still find the amount of time he's spent talking about his proposal scummy, but he has put a small amount of pressure on players. still seems to firmly believe in a scum tali. He doesn't have any other reads. He comments on Keirathi and sciberbia being unreadable to him. I'll go for Milton if I don't see some arguments to his defense. I'll defend Milton for you He started late so hasn't posted as much. We knew that was happening before the games started. Your point 1 directly helps people get a read on him. This is extremely positive town play. In your point 2, you say how the plan allows pointless posting and how that doesn't help town, but then turn around and lambast Milton for pointing this out. Contradiction much? There is no real pressure from talismania on austin at all. Milton is right, talismania IS only defending the plan and not committing to accusations. Three reads is enough for day 1, no? Posting your read on every single person is just clutter. You should be less obvious in defending your buddy. SCUM TEAM
Vivax
talismania On July 14 2012 02:40 DropBear wrote:
HOST YOU MISSED MY VOTE FOR VIVAX
I am not going to be here for lynch time, it's 4am my time.
I am voting for Vivax still. I would like to see the lynch between him and talismania.
I do not support a Milton lynch. I have already said this.
I do not support a Risen lynch. He stated that he is busy and I liked some of his earlier stuff once he got past filler about smilies.
On July 14 2012 02:55 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2012 02:43 austinmcc wrote:On July 14 2012 02:40 DropBear wrote:
I do not support a Risen lynch. He stated that he is busy and I liked some of his earlier stuff once he got past filler about smilies.
Specifics please This aimed at gonzaw. Made perfect sense, the thread was barely 4 pages old and gonzaw was saying people were lurking. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 09:49 Risen wrote:
Any particular reason you're trying to push something on people with a low post count in thread so early? Didn't even know lurking was possible at this point. So you're either an extremely eager townie or scum looking for easy targets to push early. This because Vivax is scum. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 16:38 Risen wrote:On July 12 2012 16:29 Vivax wrote:
There's no link to a voting thread in the OP methinks.Add pls?
##Vote active lurk strongandbig Yes, this is going places. I like your thinking. I just like your style, my dude. You have my vote! ##vote: Vivax There's not a case in there, just a lot of saying Vivax is scum without any reasoning to back it up.
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On July 14 2012 06:45 marvellosity wrote:
I might get in trouble for this tomorrow but I'm starting to think i'd prefer a vivax lynch over a dropbear lynch
Why?
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On July 14 2012 06:47 Vivax wrote:
Since noone even sees my case on Risen after his spamming seizure, let's at least get some lynch and hope for the best, but I don't have a good read on this guy, sadly:
##unvote
##Vote DropBear
What discomforts me about this is that Milton voted for him, and I find Milton scummy.
That's pretty terrible reasoning.
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On July 14 2012 06:55 sciberbia wrote:
oh ow NOW vivax is giving me a really townie feel. Does anybody else see his last two posts as townie?
Of course. This is exactly the way Vivax played townie in Newbie XVIII. Desperate fighting once he is liable to be voted. He even went to far in that game as to actually fake claim DT.
I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
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EPT
