/in
Bureaucracy Mafia!
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gonzaw
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/in | ||
gonzaw
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"Harass player X" seems kind of vague, does it mean "go against him with all you can and get him lynched" or "attack him a little bit but don't let a wagon form against him, just put him under your aim"? Damn, this will be a clusterfuck. I guess scum can't order something like "Tell Player X "You are a ballet dancer!", that way when they see someone posting "You are a ballet dancer!" they identified their subordinates, right? | ||
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Occupy TL Mafia! Those CEOs must fall! | ||
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On July 10 2012 15:19 Ver wrote: Do whatever you want pregame but remember once the game begins the bureaucracy will strike down your spam! Sorry, but you need to make some papers and get the signature of the majority of the players playing this game, plus all hosts/co-host with their approval of your spam policy before you are allowed to strike down spam. After that, you need to go over to mafiascum.net and other mafia sites, get into a meeting with their administrators to determine the current spam regulations applied universally to all mafia games. After that's done, you have to meet with the administrator of TL, give him the signed paper with all the signatures from players/hosts, and get him to sign a form indicating that they allow you to strike down spam in this site. After that, you need to go back and meet all other mafia sites' administrators, give them this signature and get them to sign a new form giving you permission to enforce their new spam policy in your games. After that's done, you need to come here again, wait 2 weeks for all proceedings to resolve, and meet with the TL administrator and get him to agree for you to use the spam policy on this particular game ("Bureaucracy Mafia"). After that's done, you need to meet in person with Foolishness and those other guys so they can agree on you enforcing the spam policy in a game that follows the Ban List. If they disagree, you need to go meet the TL administrator again and get him to overrule their disagreement so you can enforce the spam policy. If he's on vacation you need to meet with the administrators of the other mafia sites so they can overrule it; however you need to wait 1 month so they have their schedule free to do so. After this matter is resolved, then you are free to strike down spam once this game begins (following the universal rules of spam-strikedown of course) | ||
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You need agreement from the majority of players to do that | ||
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On July 12 2012 03:20 Blazinghand wrote: You know what's funny, it sounds like this is a really dumb mistake, but it's super super easy to do by accident. Like, amazingly easy. If I were gonna smurf, I'd log into TL with the smurf account on a different browser (chrome, or firefox, or something) and ONLY use that browser for playing mafia, so I wouldn't have to deal with who's logged in and who's logged out-- chrome for the smurf, firefox for blazinghand. or something. Well...I'm just always logged in as the smurf and that's it >_> I guess that wouldn't work if I'm playing another game with my real account though | ||
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On July 13 2012 09:27 Probulous wrote: I be sad.. There is no Ace There is no Radfield There is no Palmar There's the chance Q-Berts-dude is one of them (at least not Palmar....unless he's playing twice with 2 different accounts...? >_> <_< ) | ||
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On July 15 2012 10:12 Zealos wrote: If the CEO dies how does the mafia team carry out hits? Then there'll be like a freaking revolution man The proletariat will rise against the high class, and like, like like man, man dude the dudes in black will try to oppress the dudes fighting the dudes, like yeah | ||
gonzaw
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Holy shit I've read the voting thread and its chaotic as fuck. I'll deal with the ICBINT Mafia game and then come back to this one. Fuck I thought this would start after one of the 2 games I'm playing would end >_> | ||
gonzaw
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I just skimmed these last few pages and for first impressions I have to say Foolishness post seems quite scummy since he doesn't usually start playing like that as town (that was his 1st post right?) I don't know wtf is going on with that nuke. Don't know what's up with Kurumi/BH since I didn't read, but MZ's initial posts I skimmed from the first pages and so seemed too passive indeed, although I don't know if he'd be that "obvious" as scum (I remember Liar Game where he started acting anti-town and scummy all of a sudden at one point, like in D2 or D3 so he could easily do the same here). Anyways if there are any other 1st impressions you guys want from me I'll try and post before I leave (in like 30 minutes or so), but I wont' have time to read the thread before I leave (I'll be back in 4-5 hours I think, but even then I'll have to check the other 2 games I'm in that are in a more advanced state and require more care and effort than this one that's just a D1 clusterfuck from what I've skimmed). | ||
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Could Kurumi have used his nuke without claiming he used it? I didn't see the "nuke post" saying "Kurumi launched a nuke" This mass vote-swing towards Kurumi is suspicious as fuck (although I haven't read the thread so there may be something else to it >_> ) | ||
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Damn this game is weird as hell. It should take me some time to read everything though, hopefully I can do it in 1-2 hours | ||
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Wait, Palmar tried to follow RL in iGrok's game yes (austin mentioned this I think)....but he was scum that game I'm so fucking surprised at Mattchew and Foolishness that they assumed Palmar was town in that game and posted his RL thing with good intentions in mind...when he didn't.....because he was scum. I'm more surprised at Mattchew for using it as evidence to shit on Katina. I would have thought a townie would check something twice if they'll use it as evidence someone else is scum. I'll recheck Mattchew tomorrow, but I see him not caring about shit and posting sporadically, plus his first attack on Katina screamed of "picking an easy target". About Palmar himself, he did that RL thing in iGrok's game and he was scum. I don't see him doing shit this game, it's likely he's scum as well. However I don't know if he'd risk using his RL site thing 2 times in a row as scum both times, it seems obvious to me that someone would notice the similarity (I'm baffled how nobody noticed it to be honest, specially people that played in that game too, like VE and MZ). I wouldn't mind lynching him, he's not doing shit and that seems to be his scum meta these days. About Foolishness/syllogism I can't shake that feeling they are both scum. I've read syllogism posts and I did get that feeling he's just trying to appear pro-town while not contributing himself. Him accusing Prob for making that post 1 minute into D1 seems so fake. I don't think a town syllo would actually believe that or accuse him like he did without either changing his mind or following up on it He seemed pretty aggressive against Meapak, Katina and others, but just in an "accusatory" tone of his post that doesn't help town at all but helps create more confusion by casting suspicion on many people. I think he's scum since I didn't see syllo act like this in Liar Game. He was more intent on getting information from people, not shit on people, cast suspicion and not try to shit things up. The thing is that I get the feeling Foolishness is scum too :/ I didn't see the conviction from him in that 1st post of his. He was just babbling about lots of people in 1 or 2 sentences casting doubt all around without explaining himself one single bit. Although I kind of agree with his case on syllo, although he spends too much time focusing on "giving advice" when he hasn't done much like that in this game and has more incriminating stuff. The way he posts is not usual town Foo' either, where he tries to make sense of stuff and actually lead town. Also I would have thought Foolishness had read iGrok's game, or at least known Palmar was scum there. About laya: I don't think laya was casting doubt on the claim but rather trying to get an answer from sandro (on why he wasted his ability). I don't get why some people think killing him should be a priority over people like syllo/FOolishness or even Palmar and stuff. Now that I'm at it: ##Vote: Syllogism On July 17 2012 11:20 Blazinghand wrote: WBG, after some thought, I agree with you. Although syllogism strikes me as scummy, Layabout is irredeemably so. Examining his filter (link) I cannot in good conscience NOT vote him. This is a big game and he's trying to skate by. Syllogism's posting history, while unfavorably comparable with the droppings of a flock of diuretic parrots, greatly outdoes Layabout's simply on strength of its existene. Layabout is trying to skate by. We can't let that happen. ##unvote ##vote: layabout Wait you come out of lurking to jump on a wagon on a guy with 2 votes that aren't even that scummy to begin with? Also BH, you said that you blocked Chezinu's "nuke" because he was targeting it at you...but why didn't you try to do anything when you figured out Kurumi was scum? Why didn't you block his nuke there or tried to tell town about it to consider it or something? Here: On July 17 2012 07:32 Blazinghand wrote: welp ##unvote ##vote: Kurumi Tomorrow we lynch Syllo But fuck it's too late, I'll read your filter tomorrow. About Kurumi: Wow it doesn't get any easier than this, lol I really should have read the thread before commenting before (I thought the nuke was done in PM or something and thought Kurumi claimed he used the nuke himself) The only weird thing that could happen is sandro being CEO or Manager and Kurumi being his actual minion/Manager (most likely Manager->Minion). In that case the CEO is either him or knows him so he won't be killed by scum (even if other minions want to kill him). He could live for pretty long under "confirmed town" status. It's unlikely though, I've read his posts and he doesn't seem like scum, since he's trying to "break the setup" like he does as town. On July 17 2012 06:52 Kurumi wrote: I will say it again: If I were mafia, when I got this message there should be someone crumbing those words earlier. I was the first person to do that. Why would a Director/CEO NOT do that? Meh. Ehmm..you mean if you and sandro were mafia right? If you are mafia and sandro is town and he tricked you into outing yourself and you fell for it there's no contradiction... For fucks sake that took me like 3 hours, fucking hell. | ||
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About Hiro: I've read his filter and he seemed to be pretty active, and his reactions seemed legit. I wouldn't want him lynched at all today, he's likely town. I've reread BH's filter and he's too aggressive and "in-your-face", I don't really see him acting like this as scum. The thing that bothers me is how he changes his vote so much and disregards his previous reads. Like he thought syllo was scum enough to kill then immediately voted laya just because "he was useless". BH, what about now? Do you still want to lynch laya? @Mattchew: What do you think of Katina now? Do you still think she's scum? How do you respond to me pointing out Palmar posted the RL thing as scum? Does it change your read on Katina or Palmar? I would have thought you'd not instantly jump on someone based on that RL thing without checking it out at first. I don't really see you caring about the game right now either. You think Katina is scum yet you are just asking irrelevant questions and posting one-liners. Fuck, Mattchew you act like this every game and I don't know if you do it on purpose at times. Fuck, syllogism makes sense about Foolishness, I don't know if I was wrong about him before or this is him "finding other scum for us" like wbg said, but damn, maybe lynching syllo is not a good choice, I think lynching Foo' today would be better. On July 17 2012 15:47 Foolishness wrote: And also, doesn't blazinghand try to do the whole, "I'm going to try to post like a sane person and make sure all my sentences make complete sense" thing when he's mafia? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember seeing that game where he was 3rd party and he was so obviously not town cause he was posting paragraphs of babble trying to look normal and helpful. This is the kind of post I don't see town Foo' doing at all. He just mentions BH and adds some wishy-washy stuff about how he acted like this as 3rd party and concludes nothing at all. Foo' defending Palmar when Palmar was acting like a dick by saying things like "we can figure him out as scum by D3 if he has less than 6 pages of filter" is so stupid I can't believe a town Foo' would say that. I've posted about his earlier posts before. ##Unvote: syllogism ##Vote: Foolishness @WBG: What would you think of lynching Foolishness today? I've already posted why he's not acting like town at all, and to be honest those things he said about Palmar (that we should wait until D3 to see if Palmar is scum...wtf?) are senseless and I don't think a town Foo' would say them at all. What do you guys think of Foolishness? @laya: Your first posts weren't exactly "scummy" but you doing nothing at all is not helpful for town at all. What do you think of syllo and Foo? Thoughts about Mattchew would be welcomed as well. I haven't read MZ, GGQ, austin, and other's but I will after I come home in a few hours. | ||
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On July 18 2012 04:28 supersoft wrote: we are not lynching veterans today. Wait at least for night 1 and see who's left by then. Why not? As far as I know scum have only 1 KP, so a lot of veterans will be "left" by D2, specially the scummy ones that even if town scum wouldn't kill (fearing they are their buddies). On July 18 2012 04:32 Mattchew wrote: I actually read that and meant to respond, but forgot to put it in the thread. Firstly I read the post as if it was written in postgame discussion which was a dumb assumption but I don't think it changes its meaning I don't think his alignment had anything to do with his thoughts on Random Lynching in that game. I mean ace literally said in the next post that he completely agreed with Palmar about Random lynching and Ace was town. I don't think was a trick tried by Palmar or anything like that in either game. Theres a decent chance at that point he had not even read his role PM (a. I know he has done this before and b. he didn't post in the scum qt till way later) I am trying to care about the game but there is so much E-Penis measuring going on and unexplained reads that I find all of this pretty hard to follow, and when I ask people to elaborate, I am very much ignored Right now, I believe Kurumi to be scum and nuked cause when I tried to launch a nuke it didn't go off I believe Katina, MZ and Rastaban to all be very suspicous and scummy. Hence my poking and prodding at people about them. So what do you think of Palmar, not taking into account his Random Lynch proposal? On July 18 2012 04:44 austinmcc wrote: I have no name cache here, that's fine. But read this with an open mind. Seriously read point (1). Consider whether it makes sense. (1) Sandroba's role is way, way, way too powerful Not a single person here knows how sandroba's power works. Mafia, town, 5th party, whatever. Nobody is curious? Nobody is thinking, jeez, in a game where mafia cannot communicate except through 2 messages per day cycle, 2 messages per night cycle, and there are NINE of them. A game where they might lynch each other, NK each other, use powers on each other. Nobody is going, holy balls, the ability to SEND FAKE MESSAGES is an incredibly, incredibly powerful role? Think about it. The way sandroba used it, he's a cop. You ask someone to do something, if they do, they must have assumed it was from a mafia higher-up. So if they obey, they're mafia, you got this game's equivalent of a red check. Moreover, you're a cop that cannot be affected by any kind of framing power. Normal cops can be balanced out by gfs, millers, frames. A red check from a normal cop may or may not indicate scum. Saying "Hey use these 3 phrases in your next post to identify yourself" CANNOT be balanced by any mechanic at all. If they obey a message they received, when they had no idea anyone other than mafia could send messages, they must be mafia. Name a single other explanation, because when kurumi tried to give one, it sounded dumb and everyone agreed it sounded dumb. No. If a scum that's not CEO received his order first then sandro's message 2nd, he'd instantly figure out something is wrong, and it would be likely he'd figure out the 2nd message was bogus and not sent by his supervisor. If the scum is the CEO then he knows it's bogus. I think "Use these phrases to identify your partners" thing is not allowed in those mafia communications since it outs their mafia members so the hosts would censor it, meaning even if everything happened according to sandro's plan scum may just not believe that message would get by that censor. It's not that powerful if scum are smart and can easily figure out the bogus message; at least in this case (not if sandro had made a more "subtle" message). I don't really think his outburst here is "pushing a mafia agenda" and makes him scum alone, I'll need to read his filter first. It seems Foo' or syllo won't get lynched though. Austin and Blazinghand are the only choices? I don't really like any of them to lynch today. | ||
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I don't get why he's obsessing so much with sandro's role. I'd understand having that first suspicion if he actually believed something was wrong (like in that post I mentioned), but he spent posts and posts and posts dealing with sandro's claim and ability and it clogged up the thread too much. I don't get why he'd do that as town, specially since his doubts of sandro's claim were dealt with by other people, he didn't need to keep cluttering things up with it. There are little things that don't make me confident in him being scum, like some of the confidence he seems to have in his posts, and the fact that he "overposts" like this as town. I'm not that confident in lynching him, but I think he has more chances of flipping scum than BH. ##Unvote: Foolishness ##Vote: austin I don't see MZ being scum after skimming his filter. Damn I don't have much time for this, this game is huge :/ After I come back from the gym I'll post more thoroughly | ||
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On July 18 2012 09:00 Probulous wrote: Gonzaw He really impressed me with his play in the iGrok game when he was town but here he has been underwhelming to say the least. Compare a typical post from that game To his filter here. I mean the closest thing I can find to pushing a read, or poking, or asking a tough question or just generally being productive are his two big posts here and here. 90% of the stuff in there is just fluffy questions, even his vote reasoning is terrible Which is just a straight up parrot of what other people have said. Then he does a complete 180 to use Syllo's logic to vote for Foolishness when no-one was voting for him. He doesn't present anything knew or even poke Foolishness. He is so concerned with looking good that he doesn't bother to actually participate. This is complete contrast to the iGrok game where he actively pushed people, broke down the setup and was generally a hard ass. ##Vote: Gonzaw I knew this would happen, it's entirely my fault. Shouldn't have joined this game when I was playing 2 other ones. In iGrok's game, I was playing only one and it was a mini, you can't really compare me to that game. On July 18 2012 10:16 austinmcc wrote: I'd prefer to vote for GGQ (or Sandro), but those aren't lynch options. Gonzaw looks like the candidate on the block now, and I'm okay with a gonzaw vote Besides the other stuff that's been mentioned, here's Gonzaw giving some specific filters that he's going to read. Gonzaw comes back from reading those with: So he skimmed MZ, finds him townie. Looked at my filter, had mixed feelings, but still voted me. It feels a little off to me that he doesn't mention GGQ, the third player he was going to look at. If GGQ is such an easy target, why not add GGQ? Why not mention you found him scummy? Does Gonzaw have feelings so mixed on GGQ that he looks better than me? That's a little hard for me to believe. I'm know I'm a topic of conversation at this point, but he still finds time to mention that he read MZ and give his read on MZ. Sort of makes it seem like he didn't read. It ain't much, but it's something that stuck out to me beyond me just saying "I like non-austin targets, sheeping dat vote" ##vote: Gonzaw I haven't read GGQ's filter yet. On July 18 2012 09:16 Probulous wrote: In case you were wondering why I singled out this post, I'll explain it to you. The first bit Gonzaw explains he is confused by poor austin's behaviour. It just doesn't make sense from a town point of view but damn it is cluttering up this thread that is so hard to read. But it is alight, there are some small things that make him "unconfident" that austin is scum (like WTF?), so he doesn't think he is scum. But hey why not lynch him, right? Honestly can someone explain this sentence to me? Everything about it says Austin is town but he straight up votes for him? This is not townie Gonzaw. What do you want me to do if nobody will vote for Foolishness? There were 2 candidates, BH and austin so I had to choose the one more likely to be scum to try and avoid NL, whether I liked it or not, I couldn't do anything else since I was going away. Anyways, as far as I've read, Foolishness is scum, syllo is likely scum as well. I got a scum read from Mattchew initially but that response to my post made me change my mind, it didn't seem as aggressive as I would have expected. I don't see laya as scum at this point since he seems genuinely frustrated, but I'm not that sure. sandro+wbg+katina are town. I haven't noticed anything else, other than austin's posts but like I said I'm not too sure about him. I can't believe I'm getting lynched just because I don't have time. Once the other UG game I'm playing in and/or Can't Believe ends (or I die in them) I'll be able to devote more time to this game, but not right now. | ||
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Anyways, I'm not in the mood right now and have to do other stuff, can't even find the willpower to read a single filter. I don't know when the deadline is, but perhaps me getting lynched would be better, specially if a NL is the other alternative and I'll get the same shit on N1/D2. Fuck it, sorry Ver/Incognito :/ At least I learned my lesson here. | ||
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That NL last night seemed pretty bad, but I actually think it was a good choice, since I think BH is town and would have been misslynched About BH: I don't see him as scum to be honest, he's too confident and doesn't care about what people think of him. He's too arrogant to be scum, I'd think he'd be more careful if he was scum. For instance: On July 16 2012 15:32 Blazinghand wrote: @Prob: I think that's Chezinu you got quoted there. In any case, in this setup it seems pretty straightforwards to me. Analyze like normal, hold people to their views like normal, look for weird unsubstantiated cases like normal. There's more scum and they're less organized, but I don't see why we need to do our D1 or D2 anything different than what we typically do. Just keep an eye open for people doing shit without legit town motives and you're good to go as always. @Chezinu: Chaos bad ##vote: Chezinu Starting the game with a vote on a guy everybody knows is just crazy is very risky as scum. Not only that but he was the first one to try and get some scumhunting going: On July 17 2012 01:01 Blazinghand wrote: Yes. M_Z's pressure was craptacularly underwhelming and indicates to me that he's scum looking to build a backdoor in his wagon in case it turns out to be a bus. Therefore I voted him. Probulous comes off to me as unhelpful and unthoughtful, so I am ignoring his questioning. If you'd really like, I can take a look at him, but I think he's just scum farting into the wind to throw me off the scent. Coupled with his vote on MZ. He's too "all over the place" to be scum. Plus his reaction to when he was lynched seemed legit. Foolishness is scum: I have a little more time right now so I can make a proper case. Don't know why I'd get flak about this, specially if people ignore what I actually said and keep ignoring Foolishness to attack me. But anyways Previous thoughts about him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=36#715 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=42#836 I already talked about his first post, but his second one doesn't help him at all either. On July 17 2012 06:39 Foolishness wrote: That's not what I said. I said mafia don't propose things like random lynch day 1. Palmar does stupid things but there's a big difference between claiming to be a king and trying to get a random lynch day 1 (he even made that txt document as well). Wanting to be a king was stupid but it had an agenda behind it and there were benefits for him to do so. Random lynch day 1 has no agenda and will not help him if he's mafia. He knows it's not going to ever happen so what's the point? Just see how people will respond to him is all he's doing. Being a king pushed an agenda for him; especially so since it was a PM game. I already said that defending Palmar because he proposed RL, specially when it's Palmar we are talking about (and specially since Palmar already proposed RL as scum before, albeit other people have already proposed it before in that game) was stupid. Not only that, but he tries to justify by saying Palmar's other "absurd play" from Liar Game (wanting to be king) pushed a scum agenda. Why does this matter? He took an even older scum game from Palmar, if he wanted to compare he'd take iGrok's game (which actually he used....to justify Palmar posting the RL thing making him townie). This doesn't make sense and I don't think there is a way town Foolishness would actually believe so Day 1 nuke is a Kurumi-esque thing to do, but I've said that before about him when he's mafia. I want the nuke redirected at marvellosity because he's mafia. He defends Kurumi (who we know is scum), and accuses marv without any reasoning behind it. Town Foolishness wouldn't accuse anybody at all without explanation, he'd never do that. I won't comment his case on syllogism, since he may have actually thought syllo was scum and tried to bus him, or genuinely tried to scumhunt. On July 17 2012 15:26 Foolishness wrote: The issue is that it's still too early to tell with Palmar, but as I said I think he's town. I hadn't realized that he did that as mafia and as town when I said that. If you want something more concrete, when Palmar is mafia his average post length is longer than when he's town. I used iGrok's and BC's game as comparison (even though Palmar was 3rd party in BC's game he was effectively town). BC's game he one liners his way to victory with the occasional two paragraph post. In iGrok's game the two paragraph post comes out every few posts or so. What's he done so far this game? One liners. If you want something even more concrete, wait until like day 3. If his filter is 3 pages, then he's scum, if it's greater than 6 pages he's town. That's the failsafe "is Palmar mafia?" proof. This is bullshit. After being shown he was wrong he tries to justify his town read on Palmar any way he can. "If his filter is 3 pages, then he's scum, if it's greater than 6, then he's town". There are several things wrong with this: 1)Thanks, now if Palmar is scum he knows exactly what to do to avoid suspicion (at least from you) 2)This is bullshit. Post count doesn't relate to being scum at all. Palmar could post 3 pages and be town or post 6 pages and be scum, the content is all that matters. This is a shitty heuristic that isn't actually how you catch scum Palmar (scum Palmar gives a shit about D1 but stops giving a shit about D2-D3, has nothing to do with post count), and I find it very suspicious that town Foolishness would not only believe it, but apply it to figure out Palmar is town. I didn't see Foo' say anything about the content of Palmar's posts, or anything, he just tried to use 2 shitty heuristics to say he's town, nothing else. Conveniently he forgot about Palmar the rest of the game, but I guess he won't even try to read Palmar until Day 3. On July 17 2012 15:44 Foolishness wrote: Click his filter, click his filter from a game where he's mafia and a game where he's town? Then do one of those compare/contrast things teachers seem to be so crazy about. Honestly what do you want me to say? I played in more games with VE before he was good I don't know what to say about him. I remember posting an analysis against someone and writing at the top "Attention: if your name is VisceraEyes please skip this section because it's all about meta, which you claim holds no ground in finding mafia". I guess thinking back I cannot recall a single post he's made this game that wasn't I LOVE YOU BLAZINGHAND.... This post is just filler as well. The post is just saying "I dunno", nothing else... ...like what's the purpose of it? He never stated why he thought marv was scum (it seems he forgot about it). He never decided to change his vote even though he said he would. Okay I don't have time to mention other things about his play but I think this should be enough. It seemed to me he was the obvious choice for D1 lynch but sandro/supersoft/wbg all fucked it up. If there was enough time for me to go from having 0 votes to have like 10, there was enough time for Foolishness to go from having 1 vote to be lynched, the fact that people say that "I wasted my vote voting Foolishness" with this in mind baffles me. Like I said before I'm not too sold on syllo being scum, specially after he started being a little more active in discussions at deadline-time and this N1. About Katina: She's likely town in my opinion. On July 17 2012 05:56 Katina wrote: Mafia does stupid things, Palmar does stupid things. Especially when he's Mafia or third party, your reasoning for that is "He can't be that stupid if he's Mafia". Why would you redirect the nuke at marv? I don't like the vote on syllogism right now, especially with your lack of reasoning behind it. You want to shoot Kurumi and redirect a nuke at Marv. Can you elaborate? It seems that you are throwing around doubt and trying to side track people in your first post. You post one sentence about people who are scummy such as Kurumi (which you seem to have scummy feelings towards) and Palmar. You basically posted close to nothing just a sentence maybe two on a few people. I know you all too well, those are the things you taught me to do. I know you are Mafia love cake <3 She feels confident here. I don't think she'd go against Foolishness as mafia, since she knows Foo' knows her well and would pay more attention to here if he was town or scum. She sounds like she did in Liar Game, posts little but sounds confident in her posts and doesn't really stay back when people accuse her and such. I don't get why the hell sandro and others would instantly think she's scum just because she discredited their vote switch. Yes, that vote switch last night was awful, you can't change lynch candidates in 1 hour and expect it to work, anybody can see that. If someone thinks that's suspicious it's understandable since at first glance it is. Instantly FOSing people because of it only adds to the chaos and only serves to inflate your ego. I'll get on to the people that jumped on my wagon. My first impressions were that Prob is town, he's too active and tries to contribute as much as he can. His case on me was wrong since he misunderstood the context of the posts, but I don't see any malign intent in his posts. I don't remember other people's reactions, but that "kay I'll sheep sandro" mentality pisses me off, since it gives people a free pass to do anything they want, and all the responsibility would just fall into sandro, specially if there was a misslynch. The worst thing is that I can see both townies (without much time like myself) and scum doing so, which gives us absolutely no information at all. Okay, I'll go back to Can't Believe, do stuff there, then in my other game and come back. I'll have to go somewhere in 2 hours or so so expect from me later, like before the deadline or something. Yes, these are excuses but I can't do anything else. The alternative I have is just make incomplete posts and disappear for a long time without explaining myself, which doesn't make my actions transparent at all. If the truth makes me scummy then whatever, I won't lie to you just to appear more "townie". If I'm switching my attention between games I'll state so. | ||
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On July 19 2012 05:21 syllogism wrote: I liked it too, but by this point it's outweighed by all the bad, in particular her last few posts. This just screams lazy mafia She went from "knowing [foolishness] is mafia" to basically ignoring him. I just noticed this. Hmm...that sounds odd. Katina, what the hell did you mean by that? I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and perhaps that was just misunderstood. | ||
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Does no one have a nuke or shot to spare today on Kurumi? *sigh* ##Vote: Kurumi @Foolishness: Will you even respond to the cases against you? GGQ's filter is severly lacking, but I don't get the feeling he's scum from what he posted for now, albeit only slightly. About supersoft On July 18 2012 08:08 supersoft wrote: and I am also okay with MZ and BH. But it's too late for me to give you full reasoning for these guys lol sorry, need to sleep :D zzZzZZzzz What about this? Why are you okay with lynching MZ and BH? You never mentioned them again. On July 18 2012 04:28 supersoft wrote: we are not lynching veterans today. Wait at least for night 1 and see who's left by then. And what about this? Why were you defending Foolishness there? Did you think he might actually be town or something? I think supersoft is mafia. Here's his filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=64722 Most of his posts are him responding to people, and never following up what he posts. He asks BH some stuff, he asks HiroPro some stuff...but? I don't see him acting on that pressure, even when he's active, he just seems to appear he's pressuring by asking people questions. He wants to kill MZ and syllo and never really says why. He entertains the notion that the hosts made syllo CEO because he's a vet....but nothing else, I haven't seen a single reason why syllo is scum from him. On July 18 2012 08:08 supersoft wrote: okay time is ready for my interim findings: § 1 The good guys Sadly I have to tell you that I won't be around for the lynch, so i want to make sure, i do my best to prevent you from screwing up even if i am not around to babysit the lynchprocedure. :D This leads me to my first important point: I really hope WBG and Sandroba will be around when the lynch happens, it's like 6 hours earlier in their timezone, so it will be around midnight for them (correct me if i am wrong) when the lynch happens. I really think you guys should listen to them, reasoning: these guys know how to play this game and know how to reason their decisions well. They won't attempt to do crazy shit, because if something bad happens, we can actually blame them, unlike many others, who don't make any sense at all and their failure is neither a scum, nor a towntell. Moreover both of them have been really active and I agree with most of their opinions so far. § 2 The Lynchtarget and more about the good guys Now the more important part. I think austin is a solid lynch today. I. At first some thoughts and additions to a good post: The first thing is actually a thing that austin may not know. But it's simply true. Based on this knowledge the second point is extremely logic. if you start to wifoming around someone who claimed a role and catched scum, at some point he will look suspicious in the eyes of an unexperienced mafiaplayer. But if you look at the facts, sandroba is, if he catched scum with kurumi, town MVP right now. Noone else catched scum so far. he's not confirmed whatsoever and I already pointed out, that setupwise there is still a possibility that sandroba is scum. But this possibility is the only thing what stands between his status as townMVP and confirmedtown-townMVP. The assumption that the very existance of this possibility leads to the conclusion that sandroba is scum, is just bullshit. sum-up: attacking sandro rigt now is bad play. Experience shows us that bad players =/= scum. therefor some more evidence: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=119148 II. He starts of with a post discussing general stuff. Long post, no paragraphs, many ()()() this text is the exact kind of text i've seen often times from scumplayers. They feel good if they produce a big text at the start, because they feel that they need to do something. III. The screwup: What happened between this post and his meaningless policypost. Answer: he didn't follow the game in detail (scum is lazy but many townies get used to that bad habit, too) Now he felt like he needs to do something. But scumhunt as scum? Nooo: You really don't want your teammates to get lynched, so why not go for the guy who claimed and look like you're busy helping the town with this mean roleclaimer. That's actually funny: he says, he's curious about the power. I believe him. What I don't believe is, that he's also curious about the alignment. Woa, while I am writing this I can now see it much clearer what bothers me about his crusade against sandroba. He doesn't say that he thinks sandroba is scum, or maybe scum. He doesn't even bring up that sandroba may be bussing kurumi. As scum that's not interesting for him. All he knows is that roleclaiming is usually considered as scummy and he sees his chance here to appear like someone who is pressuring scummy people, but he really isn't. Hah! I am pretty confident now, that austin is scum :-P IV. With his following attemps (for example to accuse GGQ) to clear the blame fail in my eyes. Accusing GGQ is easy and the motiveless effort to try to justify the attack on sandroba with this dubious speculations about the immense power of sandrobas role doesn't turn me around. § 3 The alternatives lynch Hi risk. I already pointed out that post. For someone who just realized that scum had been busted, this post is not happy enough. I want to read outbursts of rampant excitement and not this: feels like... i expect this... k... lynch. and I am also okay with MZ and BH. But it's too late for me to give you full reasoning for these guys lol sorry, need to sleep :D zzZzZZzzz This is the only post with real "content" I could find, but it basically says things others said about austin. Also this paragraph: The first thing is actually a thing that austin may not know. But it's simply true. Based on this knowledge the second point is extremely logic. if you start to wifoming around someone who claimed a role and catched scum, at some point he will look suspicious in the eyes of an unexperienced mafiaplayer. But if you look at the facts, sandroba is, if he catched scum with kurumi, town MVP right now. Noone else catched scum so far. he's not confirmed whatsoever and I already pointed out, that setupwise there is still a possibility that sandroba is scum. But this possibility is the only thing what stands between his status as townMVP and confirmedtown-townMVP. The assumption that the very existance of this possibility leads to the conclusion that sandroba is scum, is just bullshit. sum-up: attacking sandro rigt now is bad play. Seems like total fluff that can just be reduced to "sandro could be scum, but that doesn't make him scum", which again is not rocket science either and seems like pointless filler to me. I remember him "trolling" in Bang Bang, and I know he posts one-liners and the like. However, in Bang Bang he was intent on killing and catching scum since the beginning, and if he thought someone was scum he pushed them until they died. I know since he did that to me, and later with talismania and other. Here he doesn't have that same attitude at all, he just seems intent in asking questions to some people, subtly accusing MZ/syllo/etc and just saying he wants to kill them, but never pushing them. If he actually thought MZ was scum he would have pushed for his lynch D1, not just say "kill MZ" in between joking with Kurumi and Palmar or whatever. The only time he seemed to genuinely try to catch scum was 1 post about austin and that's it. Even then, after he came back.....he never mentions austin again. That's not like his Bang Bang play at all, if he thought austing was scum he wouldn't have just "forgotten" about him after the NL. Foolishness hasn't done anything to convince me he's town. He hasn't even tried to respond to the cases made against him. Even that case on BM seems pretty bad, it mostly boiled down to "BM posts a lot when town, posts less when scum. Here he's posting less, therefore he's scum". Again he's trying to use those same shitty heuristics he used to deduce Palmar was town to catch scum yet ignores other more important aspects, like motivation, behaviour, etc. Speaking of which, I don't actually have a read on BM, although by memory he doesn't seem as scummy or inactive as in LIII | ||
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On July 20 2012 00:13 Palmar wrote: I'm assuming most, if not all of the abilities in this game are day-based by now. I like the idea of rastaban being scum. His latest post completely misunderstanding layabout's intentions with his frustration post only reinforces that idea. I don't think there's much to discuss about foolishness. It's so ridiculously clear he's scum. BlazingHand is almost definitely town. I have no idea how and why he almost got lynched on day one. I haven't found the time to take a thorough look at the wagon that formed on him to weed out the dumb from the scum. And most of the scum is in pretty plain sight anyway. Syllogism is scum this game. I usually find him pretty easy to read and he's completely delivering this game. The only thing that's somewhat questionable is if his raging about the setup and such is genuine. Problem for him is, he has to make dumb calls as scum, which is why he's doing stuff like this: This is funny because I already clarified (in a conversation with him) my thoughts on sandroba, see here: Sandro's basically confirmed town. I know that, and syllo knows that. For those who still don't get it, the meaning of the sentence I wrote, and syllo attacked was "Given that sandroba must be town ...." not "If sandroba happens to be town .... " But syllo probably knows this anyway, which is why he finds it reasonable to attack me in this way: I'm ignoring you for the most part syllo. I don't think I'm ignoring sandroba. Although I did miss most of yesterday in the thread. Gonzaw is scum too. If anyone doubts it, I had the unpleasant experience of playing against him when he was town in a recent mafia game. I was mafia that game. His style was completely different in that game, focused and really scary. I'm not seeing any of the aggressiveness that was really annoying to deal with. Either I'm completely blinded by not being mafia, or he's posting in a different way this game. He's for the most part been a non-factor this game. Here's his town filter, for easy comparison: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=237527 Compare that to this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=237527 The language is different, the content is different. He's scum. Let's carry on BM is scum, just murder him. VE/Sandroba/Marvel/layabout/prob/Blazinghand etc are town, for various reasons. I need to run will write more. Not like we have much more to say for today. Yeah, I had the pleasure of having lots of free time in that game. As I did on Liar Game as well (lots of free time actually >_> ). What do you mean by: The content is different ?? I don't get it, is this really your case against me Palmar? Maybe I should ignore it like I did in iGrok's game. What do you think of supersoft? The case on rastaban does seem good though, I'll check him later when I have more time. On July 20 2012 06:18 austinmcc wrote: Less scummy than GGQ, but yeah. To me, GGQ is scum, and that read seems unlikely to change. Zealos is scummy, but with a possibility of that read changing? They're entering the game with different experience, and so even though they're both contributing about equally this game, I'm getting slightly different levels of scumread on them. Wait this post seems scummy as fuck. You are "getting slightly different levels of scumread from them"? "Zealos is scummy but with a possibility of that read changing"? What is exactly your read on Zealos? Pre-Edit: lol so sandro confirmed Zealos as scum too? Damn sandro you make this game too easy. I'd like more opinions on my case on supersoft though, I've only seen marv and few people comment on it yet. | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:45 supersoft wrote: "I'd like more opinions on my case on supersoft though, I've only seen marv and few people comment on it yet." because it's a terrible case lol. Ehmm no it's not. | ||
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Like...it's impossible. Kurumi being "confirmed scum" has been talked about like every single page, it's impossible for him not to look at those posts and say to himself "Hmm, why is Kurumi confirmed scum? Maybe I missed something". Zealos was very derpy in MTG Mini Mafia, but not like this. I don't see why we can't talk about a Zealos lynch or how that "creates chaos" or anything....since this is a lynch, and apparently it's the ONLY way we can kill scum if we have no Town KP, discussing who to lynch is not bad at all. However if both are mafia there's no need to risk a NL by having votes pile on Zealos. Considering town's non-commital to lynch on D1 it's bound to happen again, specially with 2 candidates everyone wants to lynch but won't be sure who to lynch first. I changed my mind about austin, he's likely scum as well. On July 18 2012 10:16 austinmcc wrote: I'd prefer to vote for GGQ (or Sandro), but those aren't lynch options. Gonzaw looks like the candidate on the block now, and I'm okay with a gonzaw vote Besides the other stuff that's been mentioned, here's Gonzaw giving some specific filters that he's going to read. Gonzaw comes back from reading those with: So he skimmed MZ, finds him townie. Looked at my filter, had mixed feelings, but still voted me. It feels a little off to me that he doesn't mention GGQ, the third player he was going to look at. If GGQ is such an easy target, why not add GGQ? Why not mention you found him scummy? Does Gonzaw have feelings so mixed on GGQ that he looks better than me? That's a little hard for me to believe. I'm know I'm a topic of conversation at this point, but he still finds time to mention that he read MZ and give his read on MZ. Sort of makes it seem like he didn't read. It ain't much, but it's something that stuck out to me beyond me just saying "I like non-austin targets, sheeping dat vote" ##vote: Gonzaw His vote on me is a joke. It basically boils down to "gonzaw didn't talk about GGQ, therefore he's scum". The bolded bits are just pointless speculation about "why" I could have not mention GGQ (he also seems to imply I would have found him scummy...?). Why does me not talking about GGQ make me scum? Like, why would you believe those words you said? Had you just said "I agree with Prob's case" or something then it may have been fine, but you ignore Prob's case, specially if you say this: Gonzaw looks like the candidate on the block now, and I'm okay with a gonzaw vote It looks like he saw I was likely to get lynched so he just used whatever bullshit reason to justify his vote without saying "I'm sheeping Prob/sandro" so it looked like he made a contribution by himself. It ain't much, but it's something that stuck out to me beyond me just saying "I like non-austin targets, sheeping dat vote" This seems like confirmation of that above. GGQ has like 5 or so posts yes, yet I don't see how austin keeps posting so much about him. He was killed in Can't Believe so he should be free to play in this game, but his activity didn't seem to rise or anything. That post I mentioned before is pretty scummy, specially in hindisight of Zealos being outted as scum as well. Now that I looked at it, I'm not sure rastaban is mafia. I get a gut feeling he's posting like Bang Bang, and he seems kind of interested in some of the discussions he's part of. + Show Spoiler [Something off-topic] + On July 18 2012 04:54 rastaban wrote: ... Kurumi confirmed she received the PM... Wut Kurumi is a chick? O_o | ||
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Do you still think I'm mafia? | ||
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On July 20 2012 11:45 Chezinu wrote: Shh, be quite... Prob is going through a tough time right now.. He tried laughing it off.. but deep down, he is r scared! lol wat I take it you mean Prob is mafia? Meh, don't see him as mafia personally, specially taking into account his D1 play, and seems to interact with people and shit. Don't know how he plays as mafia though, the only game where he was scum I remember was that Newbie one he hydra'd with Jitsu. Prob, you still have your past games in your profile right? Anyways, thank god this game is going slow because I think my mind would have exploded otherwise. I don't see anyone commenting on supersoft, *sigh* might as well try later on when people stop being lazy. | ||
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Like...wasn't there a 10 page discussion about this when austin first mentioned that possibility? | ||
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On July 19 2012 19:32 Bill Murray wrote: i also get to steal peoples thread actions when i take their vote mattchew and meapak didnt have any for me to use i wanted to use meapak's in case kurumi was nukin him and he was going to die with a power/use it improperly, under the assumption the 2nd nuke was real, but i guess it wasn't yo foolishness is this anti town enough for you dawg BM, do you steal someone's "complete" ability or only abilities that require to post something in the thread (like nukes, blocks, etc)? You didn't make that clear. | ||
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We won't lynch sandro today, and most of this speculation is based on "whether he'll message more people or not" from now on. Just wait until N2 to see if he can message more people and that question will be fucking answered, no need to make this game 116 pages long by now. I take it sandro can message someone on this very D2 right? He said he can message every 1/2 cycle, and he already messaged on D1 and N1. sandro, you should message someone this day and confirm that (whether it's by "catching more scum" like you did or by messaging a townie who confirms you messaged him) I'm still waiting to hear what BM's power is, since he specifically said he controls "thread actions", and sandro's power doesn't seem like a "thread action" at all. | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:45 Kurumi wrote: Tell me, if someone were to forge a pm and we'd get into crossfire of who's lying and who's not, who'd you lynch first? The Messenger or The Messenged? Who forged a PM? The only way that has any bearing is if NOBODY claims they sent that PM in a massclaim or sorts. If messages like the one wbg and other people received are never claimed (i.e the sender never claims he sent that message) then you can't lynch anybody until they do since you don't know shit, and that message could have easily been sent by a minion with similar powers for instance who decided not to claim. | ||
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On July 21 2012 06:55 Kurumi wrote: Person A does not receive a message. Person B claims to have messages him/her. Forges a PM, with whatever inside. Who would you kill first? The Sender or The Receiver? When will that ever happen? sandro's "plans" hinged on the people he messaged to claim before he claimed he sent the message You mean if sandro is scum, doesn't have any more "PMs" and lies about it? | ||
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Depending on who he messaged though | ||
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Which townie follows orders from a scum message? *sigh* I'll repost these since apparently some people forgot about them: Case on Foolishness: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=73#1457 Case on supersoft: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=83#1650 Case on austin: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=99#1978 I'm ok with a lynch on any of them. About Zealos: Well fuck, if Kurumi could be so bad as town, could Zealos be that dumb townie as well? Hmm, well, actually he didn't show up at all on D2 to explain anything, he just posted those "lol I'm dumb posts" and disappeared, so maybe the "check" on him is legit. At least Kurumi posted something. Meh, I have a lot of filters to read this night. There are some little things that don't make me confident in Katina being town, most specifically her coming to the thread sporadically shitting on everybody that "town is in chaos", defending herself but not doing anything else. I'll read her filter later. Can't Believe ended, so I'll have more time for this game (finally). My other UG game hasn't ended yet, but it will soon, so stay tuned. | ||
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Tomorrow I'm going away for the weekend. I'll be gone for like 1 day. Thank god it's night, if not I could get modkilled or something | ||
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I was very surprised about BH though, I really thought he was town. About sloosh/supersoft: I don't see any reason for sloosh to fake-claim he shot Foo' as scum if he wasn't the one that actually shot him. I don't really see a reason for supersoft to fake-claim that either, unless he wanted to push a misslynch on sloosh. We need to be sure about it, supersoft has been acting shady all game and this "contradiction" here doesn't sit well with me. Can both of you get confirmation that vigs waste their bullets if they shoot the same target? If there is scum between them he'll have to fake that info, and depending on what they claims we can get a confirmed scum between them. I don't really see the "I can only shoot 1.5 cycles after scum aren't dead" thing suspicious...since it's too odd to claim as scum. Wouldn't it just be better for him to fake-claim regular vig as scum? Or a vig that can only start shooting from N2 onwards or something? Claiming something weird like that will only catch attention, as will fake-claiming that vig shot from the get-go. On July 22 2012 09:25 Katina wrote: Okay, went through some filters and found a few people who I think are Mafia. Gonzaw: I noticed that in the two pages of his filter he complains a lot about the how much chaos is in the thread but yet he does nothing about it. Instead Gonzaw often goes off and comes back eventually posts something then gone again. He talks a lot about other players in the game but never hard pushes anyone. Gonzaw makes long posts that basically ramble on certain player and by the end I have forgotten what I have read. He tries to look useful with his posts but in the end they are just taking up space. He throws doubt around the town and takes off when he has done his job. I'm aware that he said he was away this weekend and can't be here to properly defend himself. Layabout: He has two pages of filter as well. I think he is Mafia, something erks me about his filter this game. He mentions gonzaw early on and casts a vote on him for close to no reason. He didn't push his read on gonzaw and doesn't say anything about him after that. Instead he shifts his attention onto other people liks (Palmar, Kurumi, etc) and casts his vote on Kurumi. Now he's on Zealos. It seems that he is just going with the flow. Meapak: Picks on easy targets for the most part. The only one he hard pushs is rastaban who hasn't been too active this game. He makes for an easy target. Meapak continues to push rastaban when it's clear that no one is going to go for it. His Mafia list is pretty meh, As I said the only hard read he has been pushing is rastaban to try and make it look like he's scum hunting so he doesn't draw too much suspicion. risk.nuke: Doesn't have much in his filter. He starts off by agreeing with BH in the begining but then turns on him when BH starts taking fire. He sheep's along with bugs on his case against austin and jumps on board with Kurumi. The only case he has posted has been on BH, then he never follows up with it. Instead he goes on to post about me and Zealos being Mafia because he aren't suspicious of each other. He hasn't contributed anything useful to the town and doesn't seem to care that much. Did you read the thread Katina? I already explained why I was posting like that on D1. Some of the things you say don't make sense, you accuse me of things (I didn't do) when you've done them yourself. Here: I noticed that in the two pages of his filter he complains a lot about the how much chaos is in the thread but yet he does nothing about it I didn't complain there was "much chaos"; I complained there was a lot to read and didn't have time to do it (albeit you could make the case "much to read"=="spam"=="chaos", but that's not what I was pointing out at the time). Also, the thing you accuse ME of doing is the EXACT SAME THING you have been doing this game: On July 18 2012 06:44 Katina wrote: Geez, the thread is all over the place and so are the votes. Instead of focusing on one person to lynch there are several people being pushed for today's lynch. There is no way there will be a Foolishness or a Sandroba lynch today. Syllogism, or Blazinghand is most likely at this point maybe Austin (depends on everyone else) Since WBG is pushing him pretty hard right now. Kurumi is getting nuked so that's a done deal. I feel like lots of people are trying to throw doubt around last minute here. Once night hits these people should be looked at (EX: austin, marv) Right now both Syllogism and Blazinghand is near the top of my suspicion list and these two are the main candidates for lynch today. Blazinghand hasn't been around in for a bit while Syllogism has been here trying to defend himself and push his suspicions of Foolishness (Who is also scummy to me) I would like to give Syllo another day and see what happens. So I will be voting for Blazhinghand today. I'm sure enough about austin yet to consider him a lynch candidate today I will wait and see what happens later on. ##Unvote Kurumi ##Vote Blazinghand Depending on his flip and who dies during the night hopefully we will have a more organized D2. On July 19 2012 02:13 Katina wrote: A no lynch huh? That's really pathetic town. Syllogism don't you think to go after me and say I don't care because I wasn't around at lynch time. That says absolutely nothing about my alignment. You have done nothing but gone after people who think you are Mafia. Within the last 8 hours people were bringing up random cases about numerous people for example: WBG: brought in his case about austin. Really bugs? You should know better than that. Your behavoir has caused me to think you are Mafia. All the other games I have played in with you when it comes to lynch time you settle on a certain person and are incredibly stubborn to change your mind especially when theres risk of a no- lynch (I can vouch for this since I have tried numerous times to get you off my back and you didn't budge) Your votes were all over the place instead of trying to take charge and keep the thread focused like you usually do when you are town. BM: You have been pretty absent for most of D1 then you come in before the lynch and try to stir things up even more (I didn't think that was even possible) You basically sheeped everyone, your votes moved all over the place as well between gonzaw and BH. I can't get a read on you because of your blatant lack of posting (until right before the deadline) sandroba: I can say the same about you that I said to WBG. You switched your votes around so much as well and you really should know better. From what I know about your play is when you think someone is Mafia you are deadset on killing them. Much like bugs when he's town. You have accused probably 8 people this game of being Mafia D1.... That's not like you. Mattchew: I will be post a case on you later. I'm pretty sure that you are Mafia. I still think Palmar is Mafia as well. BH: I don't know why people are so wishy - washy about him. He's pretty scummy in his play. He never freaks out this much when he's about to die except when he's Mafia. On July 19 2012 02:59 Katina wrote: Syllogism you are making close to no sense right now. I have my read on Foolishness and I will give it to you once I am 1--% percent sure of it. Right now I am only 85% sure of his alignment. This whole thread has been basically nit picking and calling each other out on stupid things instead of working as an actual town and killing the Mafia like it should be. I thought this was a game for "skilled" people not a game for little bitchy whiners. On July 20 2012 11:10 Katina wrote: This thread is so messy it's not even funny. Here's what needs to happen: Keep your votes on Kurumi. We are not going to spend the last day bringing up new candidates (Like Zealos) and throw the thread into complete chaos again then end up with another no lynch. There's hard evidence on Kurumi right now, let's not forget that. We will see what his flip is then go from therw. When D3 hits THEN will we start voting for other people who are Mafia. (Mattchew, Palmar, Foolishness, Blazinghand, etc) There has been roughly ten pages since I looked at the thread this morning and all the content in those pages say close to nothing about anything. It's all a bunch of derp and twerp that is continuing to keep the thread horrible cluttered and disorganized. I'm surprised to see that the veteran players (who are usually good at keep direction for the town) are sitting around doing nothing or contributing to the chaos as well. If this continues then this game will be fast and resulting in a for sure Mafia victory. Every time ever since D1 you make a post getting angry about how much "chaos and confusion" there is in town, yet you are the one that does nothing about it. You just complained, yet the only thing you did was post useless lists about "people that need to die" that serve no purpose, and accuse people over and over and over. Every post of yours is just "we need to kill Foolishnesh" or "we need to kill BH". Yes, Katina is scum, the more I read her filter the more I'm convinced about it. When she's active she doesn't participate in any discussion. Every time she posts she's aggressive against someone, and restates reads she had long ago and doesn't add anything new. Katina keeps posting these lists of "people that need to die" that don't add anything new, specially since they are constantly changing and she doesn't really explain why she changes them at all. + Show Spoiler + On July 18 2012 09:26 Katina wrote: bugs, you should really know better than to try to switch the vote train off of two people who were discussed at in length. You have caused a shitstorm now, and the votes aren't any better than they were 24 hours ago. The people voting for austin at this point: supersoft wherebugsgo Bill Murray sandroba syllogism risk.nuke gonzaw Looks like a pretty good mafia list. I wouldn't mind 4 or 5 of you dying. On July 19 2012 12:20 Katina wrote: It doesn't matter if your vote was stolen, just vote. Why would we give up an easy kill? It will narrow down the scum count, that's what we need to win as town. If Kurumi doesn't die people are just going to derp around and be unfocused because he IS still alive. With him dead that's one less distraction and we can focus on the other scum such as: Mattchew Foolishness Palmar Blazinghand Syllogism Bill Murrary On July 22 2012 04:29 Katina wrote: Lynch those who are scummy. Don't worry about lynching the executives right now. We haven't killed one Mafia yet. Our focus needs to be on that right now. Not making speculations and picking someone we think "could be" a executive. I would imagine that all the minions have the powers anyway since executives have the authority to communicate messages. Wouldn't make sense for them to have anymore powers. We need to lynch into this group: Foolishness Palmar Mattchew Blazinghand Syllogism BM All these players are playing poorly this game and aren't playing according to their town Meta's in previous games. All these people are normally focused and organized when they scum hunt. (BM aside) There's gaurenteed Mafia in there, I'm certain of it. Again, don't worry about the executives. Just lynch Mafia, that's all that matters. There's too much worry about the messages being sent amongest the Mafia. As I have said before there is no way to know who's what on the chain of command. So it's pointless and a distraction to be worrying about this. On July 22 2012 09:33 Katina wrote: I doubt Palmar is an executive, he has been lazy this game. He has to make some big posts to keep suspicion off of him. He's most likely a minion but it really doesn't matter. The CEO is dead. All that is left is to pick the others off. Here's my list now after looking over some filters. Palmar Blazinghand Meapkak risk.nuke Layabout gonzaw Possibly Mattchew (I can't tell if he's scum or just playing really badly this game) She never explained why syllo and BM are not suddenly on her "to-kill" list, and every time she makes a "case" against someone new and adds them to the list, thinking that's the only thing she has to do to contribute and "prevent town chaos". I don't think a town Katina would act like this at all. She's just throwing suspicions around every time she posts ignoring everything else that's happening, which actually adds to the chaos she herself keeps "complaining" about in 80% of her posts. Pre-Edit: On July 23 2012 09:13 Katina wrote: I don't think I believe sloosh's claim. He doesn't say much all game then comes in when foolishness dies and claims he killed him. I'm more inclined to believe supersoft. sloosh made it on my Mafia list. I think VE is probably town and Mattchew might be as well just extremely misguided same goes for rastaban. Palmar needs to be lynched today then one of the following next: Sloosh Meapak Gonzaw Layabout risk.nuke Really? Another list? About Palmar: I don't agree with this lynch at all. This lynch is based on him "being Executive because of balance issues" and because "Foo defended him without reason". I also Palmar is most likely town. Here is his filter this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=87086 Here is his filter from iGrok's game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=87086 In iGrok's game he did stay to his "town aggressive Palmar" game on D1, but however as you can see from D2 onwards he stopped giving a shit about the game and just trolled from then on. I don't see that this game. In D2 he even started to be active and give his reads and reasoning behind them, even more so than in D1, and that's not how scum Palmar plays, he's putting much more effort this game than when he's scum. About Zealos: He's scum as well. He hasn't contributed AT ALL ever since D2. His few posts ever since have just been "hi I'm not scum" and nothing else. On July 22 2012 04:43 Zealos wrote: Well, that was weird. As far as I can see, I'd like a BH lynch. It's almost as if he claimed scum earlier, as VE mentioned, and he's very happy to just push hard on the easy target so far. As for me - I'm not mafia, deal with it. On July 22 2012 23:33 Zealos wrote: You mean because BH had a fakeclaim of vanilla town!?! What a shocking surprise. He wanted my role, so I have it to him. Even if I have been useless thus far, the evidence for me as a mafia player is pretty poor. Only two posts he made since then and they are completely useless He was outed by sandro on D2 as well, yet it seems everybody ignores that I'm down with a Katina, austin or Zealos lynch right now, I'm not too sure on supersoft (because of the claim) until we can confirm their claims. I'd like people's thoughts on Katina and austin before voting. Actually fuck it, here: ##Vote: Zealos If anybody is "confirmed scum" by now it's him. I'll change my vote to consolidate later on austin/Katina/etc if necessary | ||
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If Foolishness actually thought Palmar was scum and wanted to defend him he wouldn't use stupid reasons as "If his filter is longer than 3 pages then he's town" to defend him, since it's obvious they are stupid. He may also have not been sure Palmar was scum and could be town, so he could have just wanted to avert some suspicion on him via shitty reasons so to keep Palmar around for later and figure out his alignment via orders and shit. Foolishness defending Palmar like that doesn't say anything about Palmar. On July 23 2012 09:55 syllogism wrote: Gonzaw that "etc" better include Palmar or you too are obvious mafia Wtf is wrong with you? Are you scum? Why are you pushing so much for Palmar yet completely ignore players like Zealos who haven't done anything ever since D1 and sandro even outed him? Answer me why we aren't lynching Zealos today. | ||
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[QUOTE]On July 23 2012 09:54 gonzaw wrote: lol when I saw Foo' flip CEO it made my day :D I was very surprised about BH though, I really thought he was town. About sloosh/supersoft: I don't see any reason for sloosh to fake-claim he shot Foo' as scum if he wasn't the one that actually shot him. I don't really see a reason for supersoft to fake-claim that either, unless he wanted to push a misslynch on sloosh. We need to be sure about it, supersoft has been acting shady all game and this "contradiction" here doesn't sit well with me. Can both of you get confirmation that vigs waste their bullets if they shoot the same target? If there is scum between them he'll have to fake that info, and depending on what they claims we can get a confirmed scum between them. I don't really see the "I can only shoot 1.5 cycles after scum aren't dead" thing suspicious...since it's too odd to claim as scum. Wouldn't it just be better for him to fake-claim regular vig as scum? Or a vig that can only start shooting from N2 onwards or something? Claiming something weird like that will only catch attention, as will fake-claiming that vig shot from the get-go. [QUOTE]On July 22 2012 09:25 Katina wrote: Okay, went through some filters and found a few people who I think are Mafia. [/QUOTE] Really, you don't think a role that can only shoot once 1.5 cycles after mafia is dead isn't suspicious? There has never been anything similar in any game hosted by ver or incog. You do realize that it's suspicious because it indicates guilty mindset and thus the need to justify not shooting Kurumi n1?[/QUOTE] It is odd, but why the fuck would he claim that as scum? Like I said, if he was scum, why wouldn't he just claim "vig that can shoot from N2 onwards" or something? It doesn't make sense for him to fake-claim that as scum. | ||
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If he didn't shoot Foo and is scum I don't see why he would even fake-claim in the first place. I've never seen a game where a scum fake-claimed a vig shot from someone else, specially if it's the beginning of the game. | ||
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On July 23 2012 10:04 Probulous wrote: Ok you two, what do you think about Foolishness going balls to the wall against Syllo and BM but not Palmar. Regarding Foolishness's Actions: On July 22 2012 12:15 Probulous wrote: Palmar is interesting because he (Fool) was dead set on him being town but then changed later in the first day and into day 2 suggesting he got some new "news". Given his tunneling of Syllo who is town, I suspect BM received similar treatment. Compare the difference between his behaviour around Palmar and around Syllo, BM. The vehemence of his defense versus the pussy cat attack suggests he doesn't really want to lynch Palmar. [/QUOTE] I don't think Foo' ever said he wanted to lynch Palmar or even implied it. Foolishness was discredited basically from the get-go, I don't think anyone ever took his cases seriously, I know I didn't (with his BM case at least). Someone everybody thinks is "obvious scum" can do whatever he wants and accuse/defend whoever he wants to confuse town, since he knows he won't be taken seriously. Prob, what do you think of Katina or Zealos, and why would you want to lynch Palmar instead of any of them? | ||
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On July 23 2012 10:17 Mattchew wrote: he actually thought sinani was scum that game (there were 2 scum teams) Mattchew, why exactly do you think Katina is scum? I agree that she's likely scum, but I want to see your reasoning for it. | ||
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On July 23 2012 10:30 Mattchew wrote: I said it before using a WBG quote on how to quote her. I think she is accusing people for things other people (or herself) are doing. I don't think a lot of the things in her cases are logical and she was told by wbg (in advice to improve her scum play) to make more cases on more people, which I think she's forced out this game. I take it you agree with what I posted about her then? Anyways Mattchew, what about austin/supersoft/Zealos? If Katina isn't today's lynch, who would you lynch? | ||
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On July 23 2012 10:48 Probulous wrote: All soft accusations against him. Considering his absolute defense of Palmar Day 1, I consider this an accusation. My whole point is that he went out of his way to distance himself from his early defense without outright pushing Palmar like he did Syllo and BM. The way I see it Foo' defended Palmar from early accusations based on his RL deal and nothing else. I don't see why scum Foo' would not put suspicion on Palmar afterwards, considering 90% of his defense on Palmar was "if he's scum he has less than 3 pages of filter by D3", which wasn't much of a defense per se but rather not letting suspicious be cast on Palmar right off the bat. Hell if I know, maybe he was counting on his defense of Palmar being so shitty it would get people's attentions? Foo acted too obvious this game, but I don't know if he'd act that obvious in front of another scumbuddy. Either way, I won't really take it into account, since it's not that strong of a connection. I did. I took his original Syllo case very seriously. Are you reading the thread? He wasn't "obvious scum" by then (at least by some people). I was considering his case on BM mostly, although I didn't really take his case on syllo too seriously (since it was just "syllo gives advice when scum" which seemed pretty weak to me, even if I agreed with him at that time) so I may be biased. Because I think he is more likely scum than those two. Zealos could be Zealos, could be town, could be scum. I mean Kurumi flipped town and we know Zealos wasn't reading the thread. Katina, right now is townie to me. I will always go back and reread but right now neither are deserving of the lynch. Both you guys have been absent and we have just killed two scum, but instead of trying to read carefully and see where we are coming from you jump into the thread with different targets and try to derail the lynch. Why? You don't present evidence for Palmar being town. Just that Palmar is Palmar. Here is the kind of post I'm talking about: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=67#1336 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=85#1692 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=85#1693 He puts too much effort in making those posts, effort he doesn't have at all when he's scum (e.g read his filter from iGrok's game I posted earlier) I obviously disagree with some of his reads (his read on me obviously, and maybe syllo/laya who I'm not too sure about atm), but you can see he goes through the effort to justify them at least. When he's scum he just trolls, he votes someone (like when he voted me on iGrok's game) and then disappears or does something completely irrelevant, he doesn't take the effort to justify his reads, specially not past-D1 (which is the day he "tries the most" to appear townie when scum, but then he just completely stops caring about the game). Those posts make me think he still cares about the game, and is likely to flip town Hmm, it's been a while since he showed up though. Meh, at worst I'd like to give him time to show us he still cares about the game like he did in D2. If he's scum it becomes more apparent as times goes on, but I doubt he is at the moment. I actually forgot about that now that I remember: @Palmar: Do you still think I'm scum? Is it just based on that "his posts are different" shit you posted there? | ||
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On July 23 2012 11:11 Zealos wrote: And when you say that "A town katina wouldn't act like this" it's very vague and doesn't really mean anything to me. If you can show examples from other games with her as town where she acts very differently then it is a different matter, but just throwing things out doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. Yes, from memory in Liar Game that's not how she acted at all Here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=248411¤tpage=2 Her filter this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=248411 In Liar Game she was more calm and restrained, even though she still took strong stance on people. She was more involved in the thread, as you can see she had discussions with lots of players, even when they didn't addressed her specifically (even if it was a PM game) Even when she accuses people in that game she's more reserved and doesn't try ti shit things up by being needlessly aggressive. The tone of her posts are very different. In here she's needlessly aggressive against people in almost all of her posts. For instance, the difference in tone in these posts: + Show Spoiler [Liar Game] + On May 05 2012 02:04 Katina wrote: It's called a life, yo! Sandroba used it and he is still alive, why can't I?? Seriously though, I have been in PM land. I'll be honest, with everything taken care of there there wasn't a need to post in the thread. At the times I was around nothing was happening in the thread or there was arguing about Cephiro which was something I did not want to get involved in. Not a good excuse I know but surely you can understand. I would like to address this post you just made though. I don't see how this helps the town at all. Everything I see with it is just pushing a mafia agenda. You have been consistent with wanting to kill myself and Foolishness I'll give you that. But as for general posting behavior all you've done is thrown doubt around at the people who are trying to lead the town to victory. This includes Foolishness, but you've attacked syllogism and Palmar now. I have my doubts about these two but at least they have both tried to do something. You seem more content on just shutting down everyone's plans and instilling doubt in the town. And this seems to take priority for you over pushing your reads. Saying that the intent is "about removing any voice who speaks against them" is silly. It seems to me some of these people (Foolishness, gonzaw, wherebugsgo, syllogism) are more concerned about finding mafia than anything else. sandroba is mafia but he's not speaking out against them. Cephiro isn't speaking out against them so much as just trying to stupidly defend himself. You are the one who is speaking out about the scum hunters, who is pushing an agenda, who is slinging doubt around, who is not actively trying to make plans [I recall you saying something early that trying to make plans is stupid and we should just scumhunt. People in PM land (guess who!!!) tell me that this is not like your town play] + Show Spoiler [This game] + On July 19 2012 08:53 Katina wrote: Mattchew First thing that I found interesting while looking through Mattchew's filter was that he is gunning to get me killed the whole game but when the nukes start getting thrown around he decides to do that. He sends the nuke on BM. It makes no sense to nuke him when he hasn't said a word about BM before this. This makes no sense if he wanted to kill me that badly. Mattchew, sunk to Kurumi's level and nuked someone who hasn't posted. Furthermore policy lynches are stupid. His actions contradict each other. You have been gunning for me all game but you be willing to policy lynch a different person and nuke somone else entirely. You have given us your reads but there is no elaboration. You said rastaban was Mafia twice but only said that was because he was looking out for himself, that's hardly a reason to call someone mafia. You did not want to kill gonzaw D1 but you didn't do anything to stop the votes from going over. Instead you sat there and watched it all happen, of course your vote got stolen but that shouldn't stop from telling everyone to vote for someone else instead.Futhermore you never commented on any of the big names in the thread. You have mentioned BH maybe once or twice, you never said anything about austin and as I said before you never talked about gonzaw for more than one post. Looking through his filter he posts to make it look like he's doing something and contributing but in reality his posts don't say much of anything. Basically they are asking people the same "what do you think of this guy" "What do you think of this reponse" but not generating anything useful. It seems that Mattchew is using Foolishness' credibilty to get by with not saying much. Which seemed to be working apparently. No one is really looking at Mattchew or listening to much of what he is saying in thread. (Can't blame you) Mattchew's play has been horrid this game and I am 100% percent certain that he is Mafia. In both she basically accuses her top-read, but in this game she's too aggressive and too "sure" of the guy she's accusing is scum. In Liar Game she wasn't that aggressive nor "sure" (as would be expected from a townie). In the Liar Game she pointed out things that made people scum, and told us that trying to convince us about it. In this game she just tries calling people for as much stuff as she can and doesn't seem to have the same intent in convincing us about it. In that 1st quote you can see her trying to figure out BC's alignment, she tries to make sense of the situation (but concludes BC is mafia). In the 2nd quote it's just a flash of "scummy" things she held together. She's doesn't seem to try and make sense of the situation at all It's hard to explain, but if you read both of her filters you'll know what I'm talking about That's what make me think she's not acting like she does as town. Also the fact that she doesn't post stupid lists when she's town or complain about the "chaos" every 2 minutes. Zealos: As for the case on me, its wrong, sorry to disappoint You'll still say you were "dumb" when you didn't post the message sandro PMed you, then? Why haven't you done anything since then? You haven't posted anything relevant at all since that "I'm dumb" series of posts you did on D2. | ||
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If he was Copycat he'd get Rol's role like other people said; if he could choose which role to get it'd be very powerful, and he would have likely chosen Kurumi's role instead (once Kurumi died), since he knew Kurumi had a nuke since D1. His posting on D2 doesn't see like a scum Palmar to me, would a scum Palmar put effort like that? Him just giving up right now is not making things any easier. I'll likely change my vote to him to consolidate, but I won't just sheep a vote on someone I'm not sure is scum so I want some more explanations first. | ||
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@Prob: Will you answer what I posted before? *sigh* You guys better be right, I don't have a good feeling about this ##Unvote: Zealos ##Vote: Palmar I'm going to the gym now and I think I'll be back right before the deadline. | ||
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Well damn, I guess I was wrong :/ Might as well sheep town next time (no before you ask I won't sheep) I also thought the deadline was later On July 24 2012 10:43 Katina wrote: So let's try this again =.= Tomorrow we should lynch sloosh or gonzaw... No, tomorrow we lynch Zealos. I wouldn't even accept a sloosh lynch. His claim doesn't make sense from a scum perspective, and other than "he flip-flopped on Foolishness" I haven't seen any case on him at all. I actually thought he made sense with some of his posts initially, like he usually plays in big games (lurks but makes good posts every once and then). Until I hear from someone why Zealos is town then I don't see why we shouldn't lynch him. If he flips scum (most likely) then this last day seemed like wasted (with all the baseless accusations and stuff). Hmm, although I'll have to check my reads again, I usually read Palmar alright (at least taking into account iGrok's game) so this is kind of a shock to me. I guess I won't get shot tonight though, seems scum stopped shooting me as town these past few games for some reason | ||
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Chezinu may be "crazy" and all that, but he's too active in discussions to be scum. Unless someone can show me he does this as scum as well in previous games I'm inclined to say he's likely town. | ||
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But why the fuck would he fake-claim as scum if he was SURE there was going to be a counterclaim? :/ Imagine if supersoft said "Vigs get their bullets refunded", which outs one of them as scum, then he'd be utterly screwed, and unless he got that info from the hosts previously sloosh wouldn't have known about it. And like someone said nobody knew Foo' was scum (unless a minion has a rolecop ability or something, but the point is that town doesn't know about it) so Foo's flip wouldn't really incriminate him much. If he was scum he'd just shut up, keep lurking and have more chances to live than by fake-claiming what he did. Meh, I'd say we just forget about his claim and wait to see what he contributes from now on. | ||
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On July 24 2012 11:39 VisceraEyes wrote: He didn't push for his lynch...that's my point. He voted with me, but he never "pushed" the lynch at all. He left that to me, the townie. He wanted the lynch to fail. Because it would implicate him as scum. I got the feeling he was trolling with that "sandro is scum" thing. Well...I actually didn't understand anything of it so I assumed he was. | ||
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On July 25 2012 05:16 Zealos wrote: Gonzaw is sorta got some similarities with Hiro, not to mention things that have been talked about by other people, so he is also looking red to me, however, I would prefer a hiro lynch. Ehm, no. Other than Katina FoSing me because she didn't read the thread, I haven't seen "things that have been talked about by other people", other than that "voted Zealos==scum" stupid thing that happened last day. Expand Hmm, I don't think I'll change my mind about you. Just the fact that you didn't out sandro's whole PM (and didn't even out it at all previously) is enough, but just in case you are "townie who makes mistakes" like Kurumi, your play this game is lack-luster, and I don't remember you doing anything other than saying "I'm dumb" on D2, "That case on Katina is good, except it's not" on D3, and "Hiro/gonzaw are scum" on N3 (and nothing else). Yeah I'll just check other people. Haven't read MZ by now, nor checked austin's recent posts, but by what I've seen it's likely they are both scum (I don't remember MZ posting at all since D2 :/ ). | ||
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On July 25 2012 07:35 Katina wrote: What? I read the thread. I read through your filter a few days ago. That's how I know you are Mafia. I was commenting on posts made by other people. As for Syllogism, he's not important to me nor was he ever my biggest scum read. Palmar, foolisness, and BH were my biggest reads. Now it's sloosh and gonzaw. My filter has been interesting this game because the thread has been so chaostic and making my reads change. I went back and read through filters and arrived at my list now. I already explained my behaviour on D1 and it has been talked about it til death by now, yet you base most of your "read" on me on it, making me think you didn't even read that. Hell I didn't even see you post anything else about me after that short paragraph you posted. You just made one short paragraph about me and from then on you went "kill gonzaw, kill gonzaw" like a robot or something, which is the behaviour I expect from mafia. That reminds me a lot of what Mattchew did to me in "Can't Believe". I don't know if I'll change my mind about you either. | ||
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It's possible a vet was hit or a medic saved someone, if we have roles like that in this game Prob, I think you should better use your "lynch" by the 12-24 hour mark or so (or at least a little bit later than now) You get 12-24 hours to figure out who to kill, but we have 24-36 hours to use the info from the flip to decide who to lynch (also so we don't lynch the killed guy). About MZ: I don't see nothing inherently scummy with his D1 play actually. He seems aggressive and involved in discussions. But damn he stopped playing after that. Like 2 and a half pages of his filter come from D1, but only 1 and a half come from N1 onwards, and he doesn't post anything really interesting there. The only scumhunting I've seen from him is calling rastaban out, and accuse Zealos/Kurumi/BH/Foolishness with little reasons; after that he just seems to argue with people and reiterate things over and over and not contribute with nothing else. Yeah I wouldn't mind him dying. I'm not very confident in him being scum though, but I was wrong before and I trust that all of VE/Prob/syllo/etc are not idiots and see him as scum so he may as well be. About austin: Skimmed his filter, but I don't see anything that could make him town. Even in these past few days he's focused on setup-related things (messages, traitor claiming, etc) and didn't really scumhunt at all. Plus he seems too "aggressive" and blunt, he was way more calm and "nooby" when he was town in Can't Believe. In there he established his innocence pretty fast by making cases right off the bat and even going so long to check Risen's entire mafia history to check his alignment, and I don't see anything of that this game. The only player I've seen him make a "case" against was GGQ, who only had 5 posts by then (and we know was town). About marv: He's too lazy this game. Out of his 10 pages of filter there are only a small percentage where he actually voices his opinions and takes an active stance in discussions. Other than that just asks questions and shit. Hmm, I don't know if he'd be this lazy as scum though, plus he has a townie tone in his posts, like he seems genuinely bored and not just trying to blend in or anything. I think he was more aggressive as scum in LV too Meh, he's likely town. Katina and Zealos are still scum. The only ones I'm having doubts about right now are rastaban and risk.nuke, haven't checked them yet. I'm still bewildered by the sloosh situation though: @sloosh: Could you try to contribute more? Ever since you claimed you kind of disappeared and that's not helping you at all. Hell doesn't make sense if you are scum (fake-claim and then disappear) but doesn't make sense as town either so get going. | ||
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On July 25 2012 11:57 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: no none of you have a case. Since we're all suggesting targets, I'd say you should lynch zealos. He's just about confirmed red because of sandroba, once he's out of the way we can actually spend the day arguing with each other over who to lynch. While yesterday was great because we killed scum, it kinda sucked in terms of discussion because it was so obvious. MZ, what do you think of Katina, austin and other people discussed by now? Yes, you've said "lynch Zealos" ever since N1, we already know you think he's scum.....so? What else? You can't think you complaining about people are considered contributions. Plus if you are really town and you know you'll likely get killed by Prob/lynch you should post all your reads and try to contribute as fast as you can to make sure people know what you think once you die and are "confirmed town". | ||
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I'll check him tomorrow though, I'm going to sleep now. | ||
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On July 25 2012 18:25 syllogism wrote: Gonzaw has defended both laya and BH and didn't vote BH despite him being the other day 1 wagon. Pretty sure Gonzaw is the chairman or at least mafia. ##vote Gonzaw What the...? Are you kidding me? You think I'm scum just because of the people I defended? I don't remember defending layabout, and sorry if my read on BH was wrong, but I honestly didn't think he was scum (read that post where I mention him if you want to know why) On July 25 2012 18:46 syllogism wrote: I'm much more confident about Gonzaw than meapak. There is no way meapak is going to be able to cast doubt on anything if he mafia. Gonzaw is pretty much guaranteed mafia and playing exactly like I would expect the chairman to play. He defended 2 chairman minions and attacked palmar on day 1, yet on day 3 he suddenly thought palmar was town. I wonder what changed his mind? Lets compare Wow really gonzaw, Palmar started putting in effort after day 2? Just lynch gonzaw, he is guaranteed to flip mafia I already fucking explained why I thought Palmar was town at that time: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=140#2782 Palmar made like 5-6 posts in a row with reads, reasoning, etc. I've never seen him do that as scum, specially not after D1. On July 26 2012 01:07 syllogism wrote: After laya flips mafia I'm sure you did ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=163#3252 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=164#3279 I POSTED IT BEFORE PROB EVEN DECIDED TO LYNCH HIM NOT AFTER. I seriously didn't remember layabout at that time, but was going to sleep so didn't have time to check his filter. For fucks sake syllo you think you can boss everybody just because you had good reads on flipped scum, but that doesn't make you "king that must be sheeped" player of this game at all, specially if you have such a shitty read on me based on shitty stuff like "he defended 2 minions" that you know doesn't say anything about me, but apparently you think it does since you think everybody is the "analysis machine" that you are and as soon as someone has a bad read they are confirmed scum. On July 26 2012 01:35 syllogism wrote: Meanwhile in this game, with 1h 40 minutes until deadline and his vote on a person who didn't seem likely would get lynched I was exhausted at that time and very frustrated. I was going to get lynched both in this game and in Can't Believe and trying to cope with it tired the fuck out of me. I was also near getting lynched in my UG game (or at least had a lot of pressure on me). Getting lynched on 3 games at the same time is not as fun as you would believe. Even fucking read Can't Believe, I was going to get lynched there but I didn't have the energy to do anything so I left there as well and went to sleep a little later. *sigh* I can't believe this is the only case against me, like, people seem to ignore everything else I wrote or something? It's the same fucking thing as in Can't Believe, I bust my ass and then people think I'm scum just for "little details" and then don't even respond to me about my other posts. I don't agree with this "either gonzaw or MZ" dichotomy at all either. I wouldn't mind MZ dying but he's not my top suspect. Does someone think Zealos/Katina/austin is town? Do some of you really think MZ is more likely scum than one of them? If so then please explain Anyways seems people will stupidly sheep syllo again today so might as well try to post anything I can. | ||
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On July 26 2012 04:31 syllogism wrote: Oh I've to make a correction, gonzaw posted that layabout remark before probulous lynched him, doesn't change much though. Might be even worse actually as there is no reason to randomly state that you forgot talking about a person who you had never suspected and had even at one point defended. Yes there is, I was reading filters from people and commenting on them, and I thought I read them all (the people I haven't read by that point). After that post I remembered that layabout was in this game as well but I haven't read him so I posted that...you know...to be transparent about what I'm doing and so people don't go later and say "oh lol there are people you didn't mention lol you are scum" or some shit. Actually I think I forgot about QBertz and BM as well. | ||
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syllo: Meanwhile in this game, with 1h 40 minutes until deadline and his vote on a person who didn't seem likely would get lynched You mean the guy that had like 5-6 votes at the time? The guy that I thought was more likely scum and had the most votes other than me (I actually may be wrong about this and BH may have had more votes, but both of them had plenty of votes anyways)? The BH wagon started after I left, I didn't have psychic powers to know that he'd be a lynch candidate other than me at that point. | ||
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I'll post all I can about him a little bit later, now I have some shit to do (I woke up just some few moments ago >_> ) | ||
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On July 26 2012 05:29 syllogism wrote: Well that's nice, can we get a claim? No. I never like to claim even when facing being lynched, since it doesn't serve any useful purpose and will either convince people that "oh he's scum fake-claiming VT" if I claim VT or create a shitstorm if I claim blue (like it did in Bang Bang mafia). | ||
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"Oh but he was wishy-washy about the flipped scum/defended the flipped scum! Therefore he's confirmed scum! Let's ignore everything else he did and lynch him!" Seriously it's frustrating as fuck that this kind of stuff keeps happening. | ||
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On July 26 2012 01:40 Katina wrote: We need to lynch gonzaw today. We already have some votes on him so let's keep it that way. There's a very good chance he's going to flip Mafia. Tomorrow we can worry about Meapak. Zealos and Chezinu would not make good lynches today. ##Vote gonzaw Nice contribution there Katina! So.....what about sloosh? You know, the other guy you wanted to lynch? | ||
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On July 26 2012 06:06 austinmcc wrote: Gonzaw, calm down and consolidate. Lot of day left, and if it's actually Can't Believe all over again it ends in us lynching scum. At least some of your suspicion of Katina rests on her play in Liar Game. Do you feel that it transfers 1:1, given that Liar Game had PMs and odd lynch mechanics? I just don't know how far comparisons between the two games get you. My suspicion rests in her behavior. After rereading Liar Game I saw her behaviour there was different as well, i.e it's not what she would normally act as town. As far as I know Katina didn't PM much in there, but what I'm talking about is how she approaches pushing her suspicions. In here it's like Katina is detached from the game in a way. She makes the "lynch X" or "X is scum" posts....but it's not like she seems to care about that happening in the game at all, and doesn't care about figuring out their alignment either. Just see that post I quoted earlier, it seems like an obvious post to just justify her vote and then leave. Earlier posts of her followed the same suit, their purpose seemed only to satisfy the "post some suspicions, accuse some guys" achievement from scum, and that's it. I don't see her trying to figure out people's alignment like in Liar Game for instance, I just see her accuse the same people over and over trying to appear that she's doing something useful, but not being invested in the game itself or seeming to care about it. Hmm, austin, what exactly do you think of Katina then? On July 26 2012 06:10 syllogism wrote: If I understand this post correctly, you were saying that what mafia would likely not believe a message that would tell them to identify themselves by posting something specific. But if that's the case, why did you think kurumi was mafia? It seems to me that when you were writing this, you weren't thinking about kurumi at all, because otherwise saying this doesn't make sense. This may be a bit of a stretch, but it feels weird to say something like this when you were "certain" one "mafia" had already fallen for it. It's not that powerful if scum are smart and can easily figure out the bogus message; at least in this case (not if sandro had made a more "subtle" message). I took it that Kurumi was a dumb mafia who fell for that trick. The point I was making is that scum would not likely fall for the same trick again (of following the message and "crumbing" phrases in their posts), since they knew Kurumi fell for it, meaning sandro's role wasn't "insanely overpowered" like austin claimed it to be. Well, that was before the whole "I'll PM someone, out the message......actually I didn't PM someone...actually I did" trick sandro used with Zealos....which in hindsight seemed kind of powerful since it was a pretty good trick | ||
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...well, for one I'd ask myself why scum Zealos wouldn't out the whole message in the first place, since he knew sandro made a similar trick with Kurumi and even said in the thread that he'd PM someone a message he wanted to out. But well, maybe he was indeed a minion who was never messaged before. Anyways, the point is that if he's town, and was indeed dumb enough to keep the message for some reason, he'd have no reason to out the whole message, even the "incriminating" part. If he was town he'd post it all, but he didn't. It makes perfect sense as "outed" scum at that point. He leaves out the incriminating part of the message so people don't think it was an "obvious scum message", and hopes sandro doesn't read it. Sandro already knew the message he sent him, so if he saw a thing similar to it that Zealos posted he'd know it was the message he sent, but it was possible he didn't strictly read the whole message trying to find inconsistencies (since he knew that message was his, he already knew the content). I think Zealos was counting on that: sandro not reading the whole message Zealos posted and not outing the "incriminating" part. Because the alternative, that Zealos is town and deliberately cut out that part and never mentioned it again, is EXTREMELY hard to believe, specially with Zealos' behaviour this whole game (i.e he doesn't seem to care about it). | ||
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"he'd have no reason to not out the whole message, even the "incriminating" part." | ||
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Okay, first let's check his filter on MTG mafia (the one with the actual magic game, cards and shit, not the other mafia that was a normal mafia game): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345422&user=230739 Then his filter here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=230739 There is quite a difference in behaviour. In MTG, he just spouted anything he had in his mind, made a lot of one-liners, and seemed pretty confident in what he posted. He was very temperamental (sp?) as well. If someone accused him with "bad" reasons (like S&B that game), he'd flip his shit and start tunneling, responding to everything, caring about what was happening. Granted, this is a huge game and was huge in the first few days, so maybe you could disregard the whole "being confident" stuff, but I still see his behaviour to be quite different in this game. In this game he's not aggressive, and he doesn't seem to care about what's going on, specially since this is basically the first post where he justified his reads....which came in N3. He spent all D1/N1 (when he was active) talking about irrelevant stuff, and the only relevant scumhunting I've seen is softly accusing BH. Until N3 he didn't do anything relevant. In MTG he might have been "scummy" by lurking a little bit, OMGUSing and stuff, but he tried to scumhunt, specially before N3. There's also the very incriminating fact about the sandro' message that makes 0% sense if he was town, and he never mentioned again or even tried to explain why he cut the message. Here: That's all he has to say. Apparently he's so dumb he accidentally cutted of part of the message when he posted it. Well I don't believe that, the fact that he didn't explain at all why he did that is more damning, as also the fact that he doesn't try to do anything even after people have given him a 2nd chance ever since D2 So that's why I think we should lynch Zealos today: "There's a very good chance he's going to flip Mafia. Tomorrow we can worry about Meapak" We still have 24 hours or more, this isn't coming down to a "gonzaw vs Meapak" lynch just because syllo/supersoft says so. | ||
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On July 26 2012 06:52 syllogism wrote: Gonzaw I think your approach to situations Zealos and Sloosh are inconsistent and suspicious. In the case of Zealos you ignore every town-aligned explanation for his play while you aren't even slightly suspicious about Sloosh' claim and even suggest that supersoft is more suspicious despite claiming a mirror role of a flipped mafia. Really, you think Sloosh' extremely unusual and unlikely role claim and the fact he shot a person who he had previously defended isn't suspicious, but you question supersoft's play more? Why would mafia supersoft ever counterclaim there? To force a mislynch? That's laughable. The counterclaimer in this situation is actually much less suspicious. You are mafia I thought supersoft was mafia by that point, and sloosh claim didn't make sense from a scum point of view. The double-claim was odd to me and I couldn't really figure out why, which is why I wanted a little more explanation about it and try to figure it out later. I kind of ignored it afterwards after supersoft started to get a more active participation in town, actually pushing scum like he did in Bang Bang, which made me think that perhaps both of them were town in the first place, and what supersoft said (that they both shot Foo' and their bullets didn't get back) was more likely. And no, in that specific case, if the counterlclaimer claims the claimer is scum but gives reasons that they both could be town it doesn't make him "less suspicious", which is what I thought at that time (i.e if supersoft was mafia, he'd just counterclaim, say that both of them could be town, but keep pushing sloosh's misslynch. After sloosh flips real vig, then he falls back to that statement about how both of them could still be town and avoid getting lynched himself). I also don't get what this has to do with Zealos. | ||
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On July 26 2012 07:05 Probulous wrote: Did this Change to 24hr hrs? Cause I thought we had another 24. I only got my power yesterday. Just skimmed but I am happy to vote ## Gonzaw Are you fucking kidding me? | ||
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On July 26 2012 07:11 syllogism wrote: We still have over 24 hours yes. Gonzaw: it has to do with your approaches. In Zealos' case you dismiss every explanation that might explain his behavior even if he is town and in Sloosh' case you dismiss every explanation why the play makes sense from mafia perspective. The claim is so suspicious, that the inconsistency and flat out refusal to lynch sloosh combined with your eagerness to lynch zealos is why I am not willing to believe you are town. Unsurprisingly sloosh voted meapak rather than gonzaw I already posted why I'd like to lynch Zealos, it's not about his "claim" alone, but it plays a very good part. And I do take into consideration explanations on why Zealos might have behaved like that as town (just being very dumb? I haven't really seen any of those "explanations" you were talking about), but I don't believe them. I did take into consideration explanations why sloosh's play makes sense from a mafia perspective but I don't believe them either (that he was trying to get in a better position after Foo's flip because he defended Foo' at one point, etc, I already explained why). It's possible sloosh is scum, but not just because of his claim, which at worst I find null. I'll reread his filter once I can. | ||
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sloosh's claim didn't push a scum agenda at all, he just claimed and then forgot about it, why the hell would he fake-claim as scum? Yes, scum make bad claims at times but there are reasons behind them (for instance those Toad/VE claims from LI, they were bad but they served to shit up the thread and stuff), but I don't see a reason for an under-the-radar-at-that-point scum sloosh to fake-claim he hit the CEO when he knew he was going to be cc'ed and then never doing anything else about it. | ||
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Unless you think he thought someone else was going to cc? Maybe marv or something, and he could push his lynch afterwards? Even that seems too risky to do as scum | ||
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On July 26 2012 07:25 supersoft wrote: sloosh maybe thought that BH killed Foolishness. And his claim was shitty. He'll flip scum, too after we've lynched MZ and gonzaw... Wouldn't he have waited before other people posted before doing that? Hmm, it's possible though. But why claim a stupid "delay-vig" with a "stupid" condition instead of straight up claiming town dreamflower in that case? If he thought BH was the one that shot Foo', and he flipped scum dreamflower. Hm, if he claimed town dreamflower, and he believed the "mirror roles" thing being discussed, then he would have known he'd be cc'ed by a real town dreamflower. Hmm could be though... I'm still not sure, the claim may seem "shitty" but it's too risky to do so as scum if he didn't know who shot Foo' and just "hoped" BH did it. Unless he's minion/Executive and the CEO/Executive told him to do that, in which case maybe BH did shoot Foolishness after all and they planned that since the beginning, but supersoft shot him too fucking up their plan. Well then again they wouldn't have known VE was going to kill BH, which would give sloosh the opportunity to fake-claim the guy that actually shot Foo' if BH did shoot him as well :/ Unless it was a spur-of-the moment sloosh did right when BH died. | ||
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On July 26 2012 07:36 supersoft wrote: hey i am going to bed now. Votecount is 5:6 in favour of Gonzaw. If you don't claim within the next 5 minutes. My vote is on you and I'll go crazy if anyone doesn't move his vote on you. A nolynch is no option for me, just to make that clear. Are we going to go through the same shit from Bang Bang? | ||
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I still don't see any purpose to do so. | ||
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On July 26 2012 07:38 supersoft wrote: I already realized that you try to mirror this play. What? | ||
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I also don't know when I "shouted and sweared", other than when I sweared at syllo for starting the wagon against me with shitty reasons. Anyways your case is like 100% confirmation bias so I won't respond too much to it. You are basically assuming me and MZ are scum and I know he's scum, and trying to nitpick stuff that shows that. Even if both of us were scum, unless me/him were supervisor/minion I wouldn't even know he was scum (and trust me, when I'm scum I have shitty reads of other scum as well, just check Liar Game) About MZ, I'm actually not very sure of him being scum. Yes, it's possible he's scum for reasons I've stated, and some people (that are likely town) that are so sure about him may indicate they saw something I didn't, but I'm not actually sure after reading his filter even more. He seems too confident even when all players accuse him, and his behaviour seems similar to Liar Game which is why I'm wary (i.e he has that aggressive/confident tone in his posts in this game as well) I also agree that Zealos was an "easy bus" for many players (palmar, layabout, etc), but that's because it was pretty apparent he was scum and his scumbuddies would have no choice but to bus him. If nobody even pays attention to him or votes him it makes it even easier for them to bus him, since apparently he was never in danger of getting lynched. I haven't heard a single reason for why Zealos is town, I've only heard people (like Prob) saying that he might have been dumb townie and did the whole sandro incident by accident, but nothing else. On July 26 2012 10:33 Katina wrote: I do want to lynch sloosh but I always want to lynch you just as much gonzaw. I'm not going to switch my vote off of you since you are so high on my Mafia list. It doesn't look like a sloosh lynch wiill happen today and you have votes on you at the moment as well which is great (since you are Mafia) I think that trying to go after me is a desperate attempt to get attention off of you and onto me for close to no reason. You also tried to push attention onto sloosh. You didn't start going after me until I started talking about you and added your name to my Mafia list. Whic h only increases my suspicions of you. I don't really care what you have to say about me or in your defense because I'm already sold on you. So when you are lynched and somehow flip town then I will write you a nice note and wash your car or something but until then I'm not moving it. So say whatever you want. No, don't lie: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=122#2434 The fact that you accused me for things that were already explained made me more suspicious of you and then I reread your filter and figured out you were scum Anyways I'll see if I have the time to check other players right now. | ||
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On July 26 2012 11:13 Probulous wrote: Explain to me where exactly I said I assume both of you are scum. My point is not that you know MZ is scum it is that you haven't bothered to take a position on the person on the opposing wagon. You are actively avoiding mentioning him and instead are determined to lynch Zealos. It is clear that Zealos is going nowhere today, there are virtually no votes on him, so why do you not bother to try and work out MZ? I mean if you think he is town, then we are all wrong but you can't be bothered to even try and convince us. If you think he is scum you have done everything in your power to step back from that position. You want us to ignore your opinion on MZ, given he is the only likely candidate for lynch today that is not you, why would you do this? It is not clear that Zealos is going nowhere. You can't use people sheeping other's into voting MZ or me as a basis for me "pushing a guy that won't get lynched". I guess if nobody does shit by now and park their votes like they did by now until the day ends he won't likely get lynched, but the alternative is to sheep the vote on MZ without thinking at all and just sit idle for the remainder of the day. I won't do that. why do you not bother to try and work out MZ? What tells you I didn't? I've read the cases against him, and I've already posted what I thought about him Yes, he's not really scumhunting other than going against rastaban since D2. I don't really buy the "he's passive" case though, since he didn't seem passive to me. Other than that I noticed his behavior and it seemed similar like in Liar Game, which like I said makes me uneasy about him being scum (even though he didn't bring anything to discussions, was inactive for quite a while, etc), and I'd even say he could be town because of it. I'm not 100% convinced he's town because it's possible he's deliberately playing like this as scum to "stick to his town meta" or something. Either way, I don't seriously think he's town to spend 100% of my time defending him, so instead I'm pushing for other people that are MUCH more likely to be scum than him and getting them lynched instead. Like Katina said, we can deal with MZ later. Now that you are forced to take a position you say he is too confident thereby suggesting a scum MZ would not be confident? Like how is this a defense? You did exactly the same thing with Palmar. You tried to stop our lynch with bad reasoning and the only other target you bang on about is Zealos. I'd bet that a scum MZ wouldn't be that confident, but I don't actually know. It's one thing that doesn't make me confident in him being scum, and it's possible he's town. Here's his filter from Liar Game which is what I was using as reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=82024 Also it's not just his "confidence", but his attitude as well, like how he responds to people, the way he makes those short posts, etc. It's strikingly similar to Liar Game. As you remember, everybody wanted him dead in that game too (at least until D4). I "bang" on Zealos because he's the one most likely to be scum, and the "easiest" scum to get lynched (the one that would get the least opposition, at least I'd suppose) Considering how little resistance the Kurumi lynch got on D2 it seriously baffles me how much resistance a Zealos lynch is getting all these days. In fact he should have been lynched on D2 instead of Kurumi at least. See here again, why do I have to prove Zealos is town. For all I know he may be mafia, but the reasons you are providing don't prove squat. Marvell and Hiro have pointed out some other stuff, which I already have banked for later, but you are content to push based solely on Sandroba's gambit which we know can catch dumb town. Saying that it is "pretty apparent" that he is scum is not case, especially when I am pointing out townie explanations for the only evidence you have presented. See I think you are too lazy to actually build a case that is not based on the PM. Wat Read the thread Prob: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=173#3455 Sandro's gambit (although sufficient in my mind) is not the sole thing that makes him scum. If Zealos played pro-town and was "obvious town" there'd be no reason to use sandro's gambit against him since it would mean it was likely he derped there as town. But he didn't. It's the fact that he was "outed" but never tried to prove his innocence later and just skirted by all these days making 1 case in 4 days. Also, lol at that reasoning, here let me try: "See here again, why do I have to prove MZ is town. For all I know he may be mafia, but the reasons you are providing don't prove squat. syllo and others have pointed out some other stuff, which I already have banked for later" Seriously Prob, you are using confirmation bias. You just seem to follow syllo's and supersoft's mentality that everything you do is 100% correct and if somebody else does something different it's wrong and it's their fault and the only approach that works in this game is yours. Now go and tell me why Zealos is town, or at least tell me if you think he's mafia or not. My vote on him obviously will be "wasted" if nobody does shit and just assume that going against Zealos is futile right off the start. It's not. Hell, that's what happened on D1. It wasn't even like 24 hours into D1 and voting for 1 guy that wasn't BH or austin was already a "wasted vote", even though we could have lynched the CEO by then had people not be so stubborn. | ||
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Yes, it's likely BH shot Foo' and sloosh fake-claimed the shot to "add to the chaos" and stuff; so it was all orchestrated by the higher-ups. Meh, should have known some scum would just do what they were told without asking questions, since if sloosh was playing by himself that claim would have made no sense :/ You know, fuck it. Nobody seems to listen to me, but I don't want to get misslynched this game, so I'll vote MZ. Like I said it's possible he's town but maybe I'm wrong: ##Unvote: Zealos ##Vote: Meapak_Zipph As for the rest of the team, I think Katina and Zealos would be the 1 remaining minions. Hmm, Katina could be executive though, specially if Foo' was the CEO, since it'd make better communications between them. If you guys are right and MZ is the other executive, that leaves one minion/executive seat. I think austin is the most likely to be scum out of them, but if somehow he's town....well, I'm not exactly sure, could be anyone of risk.nuke/rastaban/QBertz/Mattchew/Hiro, but we can deal with that later. If Katina is minion, then it's possible Mattchew is Chairman, since I don't really think austin or one of the others would be executives. Again assuming MZ is the executive like you guys said, but if he's town, then Mattchew+Katina would make sense as executive couple to me. They've been attacking each other ever since D1 but they never put each other as top scumreads, which could mean they figured out their alignment by now or Foo' insinuated it to them so they backed out. I'm not too sure about Mattchew since he seem too calm, different than when he's scum, but it's possible he changed his play for this game to not make it too obvious to Can't Believe (since he was scum there as well), so we don't make the connection between both games immediately. I doubt supersoft is scum by now, I think that "counterclaim" they were setting up was indeed BH. With BH claiming we know he'd start a giant shitstorm with sloosh that would clog up the thread. | ||
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MZ, can you explain the choices of your targets each night? What makes you think the mole would not come back as mafia? | ||
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The mole? | ||
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If he was actually scum (and sloosh real mole) that' be stupid as hell, so I'd be inclined to believe him. ##Unvote: Meapak_Zipph ##Vote: sloosh Even if that's not the case (and MZ is real cop), the mole still counts for mafia's numbers, and sloosh isn't really helpful with his "confirmed town-mole" status, so it doesn't really matter I'd like confirmation from MZ that he's cc'ing mole by the above way though | ||
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On July 27 2012 04:35 syllogism wrote: Gonzaw why aren't you voting sloosh? Because it was possible he's a real cop and sloosh is the real mole. I guess that's unlikely now though, since his claim does seem similar to Palmar's one in AC | ||
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On July 27 2012 04:41 supersoft wrote: scum. :D oh man. this game... now were lynching because of some strange claim - which if it is real - is completely worthless because it doesnt give us any information about slooshs mole status..., ??? What? | ||
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We have this game in the bag, just 3 scum lynches, then we lynch MZ in the end (he counts as mafia numbers), and we get an easy win. On July 27 2012 09:23 syllogism wrote: I'm somewhat disappointed that he flipped executive as my other reads somewhat rely on him being minion. We are going to be adjusting reads based on every flip, but right now I'm somewhat confident that the remaining mafia are Gonzaw - executive? Q-bert-z - minion Meapak - Cop Katina - executive? She is playing like someone with too much information. She doesn't seem to be reading the thread, she only has mafia reads and she seems less and less interested in the game the better town is doing. It doesn't seem possible for someone to have this accurate mafia reads and at the same time not have a clue about who is town. Her attitude towards foolishness on day 1 and 2 was suspicious, and I think foolishness told her at some point to just bus everyone. Look at her posts when she showed up today in the middle of the sloosh claim situation. She still wanted to lynch sloosh, so she probably didn't even bother reading and wanted to lynch her because she knew that sloosh was mafia. Really, interesting? Then she again disappeared, not caring at all about all the very interesting developments. She doesn't even bother moving her vote after all that despite "worrying" about nolynch. She is quite likely mafia. I can't really make sense of her play otherwise. Lynch order Gonzaw, Q-bert-z, Katina. We should follow this order at least until one of them doesn't flip red. I'm actually in favor of this. Even if I'm mislynched we'll still win the game, since scum have to kill like 14 townies or something to win, which seems impossible. Of course I'd prefer lynching them first and getting me lynched last so we can win before I get lynched at all (I don't plan on getting misslynched just because like in Bang Bang). I actually think it's something like this: Executive: Katina Minions: QBertz Zealos Meh, I don't get why the fuck people think Zealos is town. Even completely ignoring the sandro gambit he doesn't seem town at all. There are some suspicious people like austin around though, so maybe he could be town, but I haven't seen anybody argue why so I'm not really buying it. The Mole bit from QBertz is basically a scum claim and I agree. There'd be no way he'd highlight it as town and guess correctly that scum had a mole. Anyways haha this got me pumped, 2 town wins in a row is a whole new deal for me | ||
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But it's very easy to figure that out: Hey Meapak, if you were to be a minion, which branch would you belong to? I mean, I know you are a cop, so this is just a hypothetical question, nothing else I assume the mole still gets to know who he reports to, just as other minions. | ||
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On July 27 2012 09:48 Probulous wrote: No he did, but so did Super. LOL. Why else would slOosh claim? He must have felt that BH did kill Fool and there were no town vigs because of Kurumi so it was a "risk less" play, but they got butt fucked by a bad ass Supersoft and a ninja VE. sloosh is Chairman of the Board. BH is minion who responds to Chairman of the Board. If anything sloosh told BH himself to shoot Foolishness, he didn't have to "feel that BH did kill Foo' ", he knew that BH killed Foo', since it's likely sloosh sent him the order to do so (and claim later). Once BH died, sloosh already knew the plan so he likely decided to follow it himself like some people said before. | ||
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If you assume I'm town, then who do you think is scum? Because I don't really plan on hearing "Zealos is town because you are scum" as defenses of him >_> | ||
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On July 27 2012 10:38 Chezinu wrote: yeah, the reason for the one day delay vig shot is that it takes him a day to tell his minion to kill him. Actually no. Foo could have messaged sloosh on D1, sloosh could have messaged BH on D1 or even on N1, and BH could have vig-shot Foo' on N1 if he wanted. But...I doubt they would have wanted to kill their CEO on N1, so that's probably the reason >_> I also take it the 2nd message sloosh posted had some truth in it, since it stated that he should "claim something that accounts for not shooting Kurumi on N1", which again is likely the reason for the "delay vig" claim instead of regular vig. | ||
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Okay, if I get this correctly, rastaban claims that last day cycle (Day 4), there were 2 messages sent and received by Chezinu, right? So Chezinu received the 1st message first (from someone), then sent the 2nd one to Katina? The 2nd message could have been sent by Chezinu, since he has that power.....but the 1st one had to be sent from mafia since there isn't any other similar messaging role out, which can only happen if Chezinu is minion since he received the message... ....wow The "he figured out Katina was her executive" bit makes sense, although it's possible Chezinu thought Katina was her executive and was wrong. However I agree it's likely Katina is the executive herself, so this makes more sense. On July 28 2012 02:46 austinmcc wrote: Had to pull this up, ended up being too true. A lynch on you turns into a scum lynch and the game mostly wrapping up, with only one unknown scum remaining, and you, I guess, being town. Which of your two minions would you replace with Chezinu? Well shit I don't know :/ I guess it's possible Zealos is town (somehow) and derped that sandro message (somehow). But if QBertz is scum, then he didn't send or receive any message when rastaban checked him, which he would have if he was scum. I forgot about BM as well, who claimed Qbertz has no abilities, making him either town or executive. But if QBertz was executive surely he would have sent a message to one of his minions when rastaban checked him. That Mole thing is incriminating though, but maybe it has something to do with his role (and he knew about the mole somehow?) or it was a coincidence? Isn't QBertz getting replaced or something? Fuck | ||
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On July 28 2012 03:37 HiroPro wrote: Rastaban said he only checked qbert one cycle. It's not unlikely for a minion to not get messages in one cycle, considering there are three of them. And BM can't check night abilities. Oh I didn't know that (thought it was a whole ability, not just day ones). If that's the case, then I guess it's more likely he's scum because he knew of the mole, but I have a hard time thinking Zealos is town. Meh, we can deal with it later, it's giving me a headache right now. | ||
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If I was scum surely I'd need only 1-2 cycles to make messages like that (that make it "obvious" it was sent by me) to minion's I'd have; I wouldn't do the same thing on D4 risking getting caught. The message is fake, which can only mean that austin is scum, or scum have a fake-messages ability (once they are caught). If scum have a fake-messages ability, then surely it must be from a minion, who in this case would be risk.nuke, and it was sent by the chairman, but if that was the case, then the message is a lie since it says his minion has a Broadcaster ability. That doesn't make any sense, the only possibility is that austin is scum and is trying to incriminate both me and risk.nuke for a 2-1 trade, or 2 misslynches and then playing the "oh scum must have an ability to fake messages" card later. It makes sense, he claims right after rastaban explained everything about his ability, saying "oh yeah my role is just like rastaban", which is too convenient. I mean, he basically caught 2 scum, yet was afraid to claim or something? Why did he wait until rastaban claimed first with, seemingly, less incriminating message than his? His behaviour when rasta claim is inconsistent with his claim: On July 27 2012 23:57 austinmcc wrote: Imo either Rasta to confirm his role (but then we lose our streak), Chez, or QbertZ. Also, I still think the mirror rule is stupid. Really stupid and wrong. But for those that like it, even though it's wrong, if Chez is a mafia messenger then he matches up with Sandroba, and the possibility of one of the remaining mafia being one of our kingmakers is back on the table. He wants to lynch rastaban and Chez, even though he has "conclusive evidence" that risk and me are mafia? Really? I knew he was mafia before, I dunno why I started to think otherwise these last few days. The message said that the scum were trying to incriminate Chezinu. This must mean austin's buddy is Chezinu, who we know received a scum message. Makes perfect sense, Chezinu was caught so austin decided to do a desperate last-ditch attempt to save him and put the blame on others to avoid losing straight away. If Chezinu is town, then scum have another PMing ability, which seems rather odd (town have 2 exact same abilities, yet scum only have 1 that's the same), and can't happen since that message said the minion had a Broadcaster ability and never said "PM this message to X", meaning they are different abilities if it were true. I guess Katina is scum as well because of Chezinu's message, but to be honest I'm not fucking sure, considering both QBertz and Zealos are town, which is quite a shock to realize. I take it nobody will believe me, but it doesn't matter. Like supersoft said, even if I'm misslynched scum can't really win. But I never like getting misslynched at all, and was never lynched in a conventional lynch (not taking into account Bang Bang) so I'd really like people to listen to this. On July 28 2012 23:33 austinmcc wrote: Going ahead and voting Gonzaw. Don't love leaving minions with powers up, but we can be more sure, given the writing, that the message came from Gonzaw, no matter who it went to. If there's something wonky with the other stuff, we can figure it out once we've cut off mafia communication. lol are you kidding me? Didn't you just claim you checked risk.nuke? Wouldn't you say "that message was sent to risk.nuke no matter who it was sent by" instead? You are cracking dude, you are just trying to a misslynch as soon as possible, whether it's on risk or on me. I guess you planned on lynching risk first, but now that I'm the popular target you switch towards me ##Vote: austin | ||
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On July 28 2012 18:13 syllogism wrote: Gonzaw do you think the new CEO inherited the power to kill a minion they suspected to be the traitor? The flavor matches at least. I just reread Foo's PM and it said he could use a "secret trap door" or something to instantaneously kill the traitor in the mafia team. The flavor matches....however, MZ's death wasn't "instantaneous", it came with the Day Post. Also, there was no other KP missing, which I think most likely means scum used their single KP on MZ, and the flavor just made it seem like scum "terminated" their traitor like the CEO would have done Plus I don't think the Chairman of Marketing has the same ability from the CEO. I don't remember sloosh's PM (Chairman of the Board) having a similar ability. Anyways, I'm leaving to see a movie so I think I'll be back 1-2 hours before the deadline. I hope we get some discussion going instead of blatant sheeping that will cause town to waste a complete cycle. | ||
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On July 29 2012 00:49 supersoft wrote: Order from town to scum, top to bottom. 11. Supersoft --- 15. syllogism --- 4. Probulous --- 7. VisceraEyes --- 12. austinmcc up 5. HiroPro --- 20. rastaban up 18. Chezinu --- 21. Mattchew --- 22. marvellosity --- 8. Bill Murray --- 27. Zealos --- 14. Katina down 23. risk.nuke down 24. Q-bert-Z down 9. Gonzaw --- 3 scum alive, 13 townies. If you shoot 1 townie every night, you need about 5 mislynches in a row not to cut us down to a lylo situation. This would be 10 days in realtime if we shorten the days to 24 hours. If Gonzaw is town (lol he isn't), we'll make a mass roleclaim happen tomorrow. Your chance of winning this is 0. Right, so you'll just ignore everything and start lynching from the bottom up? Ok, tell me what happens in a Chezinu+austin+someone else scumteam.... .....that's more than 5 misslynches isn't it? Thinking like this can lose us the game, even if we are so close to winning. | ||
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...we'll make a mass roleclaim happen tomorrow That doesn't really matter if scum already claimed. Plus I doubt there is any other confirmable town role out there. | ||
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...hmmm, I guess it's more likely he's another minion. Hell, maybe he has that Broadcaster ability after all and that part of the message is true (like some parts of sloosh messages were true as well). Although didn't sloosh claim that the chairman of marketing's team had a "snoop" as well? That may be true and is austin's role too (and he didn't fake-claim), which adds some more credibility to the "mirror theory" (the town and scum "snoops" claimed tonight). Hmm, although seems unlikely though, but it's still a possibility. I mean, surely the CEO told sloosh the abilities of the other team as well (Foo's PM said he knew their abilities) so sloosh surely knew them. | ||
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On July 29 2012 01:45 austinmcc wrote: Sorry but you're caught. If you flip town, then we can all bow down before whoever crafted that fake. Quotes from the beginning of the night are no good for you, see the start of my claim where I say I'll stop playing around, and see how I spent early night asking some questions of Rasta and then of you about your reads. Was feeling out the situation, because I felt it was very unlikely i would be NKed, so I could just snoop you D5, pick up TWO messages from day and then night, and probably make sure that I had all 3 of you nailed down. But I tend to overthink things and make them too complicated, and didn't want to do that here. Q-bert-z's mole message is so off, and his other play fits that message as well, so there was no need to wait around and find the third scum through messages, and no need to stay hidden. So you'd wait until N5, faking that "lynch rastaban and Chezinu" claim? Would you get rastaban or Chezinu lynched on D5 too? No, you wouldn't fake that as town, it doesn't make sense, you'd out what you got instantly, or at least not lie in the thread about your intentions | ||
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On July 29 2012 02:08 supersoft wrote: it's pretty easy. if we mislynch once, i change my list. that list strongy relys on the current flips and roleclaims. if austin lied, he moves all the way down to the bottom instantly. Yeah I thought so after I said that, I wasn't really paying much attention >_> I guess I'll get lynched anyways, so remember this once I flip: lynch austin After that Chezinu is most likely his scumbuddy, since I see no reason for scum austin to make that gambit unless it was to save his buddy from certain death (which was going to happen because of Chezinu's slip). The fake message tried to "incriminate" Chezinu, which is a great way for people to say "oh, this incriminates Chezinu, therefore Chezinu is town, no matter what he did before" and just drop the subject altogether. We'll still win anyways, unless the scum is syllo or something an we were deceived since the beginning. | ||
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On July 29 2012 07:46 austinmcc wrote: For fun, I'll humor you. Who in this game knows your posting best? Hiro says that post reads like you, and reads like you talking to yourself in the liar game QT. I searched for <_<s and you use them both in this game and in others. If you happen to flip town, who knows your posting well enough to fake that? Knowing I use >_>s is obvious if one just looks at my filter (as well as the [hr] and [b][u[b][b/]]Title:[/u][/b] thing). Anyone could fake that The whole smiley use and the "lololol" and the "lol I suck" thing is just trying too hard. It's obvious it's fake. Why would scum, knowing they will likely lose be that lively and enthusiastic if it was a real message? It wouldn't. The message is fake and the guy faking it just went a little bit overboard, specially with that "lol this is so funny!" thingy at the start, which I don't really get. Tell me austin, if you didn't fake the message, who could have? You think scum have a "faker" ability to fake messages they sent or something? That seems almost impossible to me, so unless you prove that to me you are scum. | ||
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(as well as the [hr] and [b][u]Title:[/u][/b] thing) | ||
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On July 30 2012 06:53 risk.nuke wrote: Hey, I'm back. I've been at Närcon. Due to mishappens I have not had any internet acces. And honestly I wasn't very worried about the game. Then I get home and I see this storm. I'm obviously beeing framed. I don't have a power like that and personally I don't buy austins roleclaim that allows you to intercept messeges. It just sounds to powerfull for this setup. It looks a hell of alot more like a desperate trick the scumteam is pulling. Especially since it's coming from Austin. Weather or not it incriminates Gonzaw I'm not sure. It's just so convenient that after he posts his fake-pm he instantly figures out who's writing style it is. Seems much more likely that he planted the gonzaw-signs himself. Unfortuantly I didn't come back in time to say this soon so I can't avert his lynch so I guess we will find out gonzaws alignment shortly but I'm bracing myself for a greenflip. ##vote: austin You do realize that rastaban claimed the exact same thing before right? Meh it's possible you are scum as well, so after I flip green and austin flips read you are "confirmed town" for the rest of the game. But well, that's for the remaining townies to figure out later in the game. On July 29 2012 12:55 Bill Murray wrote: i was considering voting austin until this your head is surely in the scumteam, gonzaw, mister scumteam-setup-speculation I was asked a question, I answered | ||
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"austin flips red" | ||
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austin is very likely scum. The only possible way he's town is if scum have a "fake-message" ability, which I doubt. These are the 2 possible scum teams I can figure out: austin Chezinu Katina austin Chezinu risk.nuke Chezinu received a message, and he is the only "messenger" left, so he's a minion who received a message from his executive. The problem is that he could have figured out Katina was his executive, but him "figuring it out" doesn't mean she actually is (although I think is the most likely). Also his message could have just been irrelevant and he was just fooling around anyways. Also the bit about the message "incriminating" Chezinu just feels too odd, and austin claiming that out of nowhere after Chezinu was "caught" is too much of a coincidence. However, risk.nuke up there just instantly jumps against austin without even taking into account that I could be mafia as well. It seems like a planned bus, so when I flip town risk gets the town cred and gets to bus austin later. Like I said, once I flip austin should be lynched, and I assume that's what you guys will do. However if that happens, risk.nuke would be come almost confirmed town since austin's message incriminated him, so one would say "Oh, austin wouldn't incriminate his own buddy like that when they are on the verge of losing, so he's town". Well guess what, that could win scum the game, specially if they will only need 3-4 misslynches (don't remember how many of them they needed) to win. What makes me start to think this is how austin wants to lynch me even though from his POV risk nuke is confirmed scum Let me remind you of this quote On July 28 2012 23:33 austinmcc wrote: Going ahead and voting Gonzaw. Don't love leaving minions with powers up, but we can be more sure, given the writing, that the message came from Gonzaw, no matter who it went to. If there's something wonky with the other stuff, we can figure it out once we've cut off mafia communication. The dude is "sure" that "given the writing" the message came from me, no matter who it went to For fucks sake if there's any scumslip in the world it's this one. Again, let me remind you: from his POV risk nuke is confirmed scum! How the hell can he say "no matter who it went to"? From your POV It went to scum, and you should know that! The fact that he forgets about risk when he's "confirmed scum" in his eyes is damning actually. If risk was town I think he'd try to misslynch him instead of going against me. You know actually fuck it, Katina is town then (Zealos and QBertz are town so I am not surprised by now). Once I'm lynched, lynch austin, then Chezinu and then risk nuke, or just lynch them in whatever order you guys want. | ||
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*sigh* Read the thread (or just filter rastaban) | ||
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Scum are on the verge of losing, so to win they'd need an overly-complicated gambit that includes all 3 of them (austin, Chezinu, risk.nuke) and adds a lot of chaos and confusion and can make them change the game, specially if they kill influential town members in each of these subsequent nights and only leave the "sheep townies" alive, who will have no fucking idea what to do. | ||
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Hmm, I think it could be something like this: Chairman of Marketing: austin Bossy Employee Minion: Chezinu Broadcaster Minion: risk.nuke I take it perhaps the "Broadcaster" ability is actually from scum and is actually risk.nukes role. If risk.nuke was lynched, he'd flip that adding lots of credibility to austin's "claim", even if I flip town. If I flip town he can just say "risk.nuke flipped Broadcaster just like I said, so I'm legit. I'm sure scum decided to incriminate gonzaw with that message just in case someone intercepted it. Yeah maybe scum sent that message after rastaban claimed, and oh yeah I lied and I got it instantly at night not in the day!" or something like that. At worst it could add confusion in the thread and may give him a little more time. Chezinu is obviously "Bossy employee" or has the same ability. That leaves austin as chairman of marketing, which doesn't make much sense if Palmar was his minion (I'd think Palmar would be executive and austin a minion, by "meta" standards at least), but well sloosh was chosen as executive instead of BH/layabout/MZ which I guess means we shouldn't take it into account | ||
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....so? Have you read rastaban's claim then? Did you change your mind? No? Why? Why not? | ||
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On July 30 2012 07:39 Probulous wrote: I'm reading it Gonzaw. Don't worry, if you flip town, I will take a closer look but right now flipping you makes the most sense to me. My problem with your play is that you started terribly and then never really got into the game until this last day. It is like you want to contribute only when under pressure and that makes it hard to take your thoughts seriously. Like I said, if you are town, your words will gain some weight with me because it is clear you are putting effort in. Well, I know I didn't play up to my "usual town" standards, but I really hope you guys read what I posted once I flip. On July 30 2012 00:36 VisceraEyes wrote: This. Maybe once Gonzaw is gone scum will surrender...he's notorious for "never give up, never surrender" isn't he? Never gonna give town up, Never gonna let town down Never gonna run around and desert town Never gonna make town cry, Never gonna say goodbye Never gonna tell a lie and hurt town But no, if I was scum I think I'd surrender by now. Although if I was scum I wouldn't know who my buddies would be, so maybe I could be scum with Prob and syllo or something so there'd be no need for me to surrender. On July 30 2012 07:41 austinmcc wrote: Gonzaw, if I'm chairman of marketing, how did I see the PM that risk.nuke received from Chez last night? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=202#4033 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=202#4035 You didn't "see" any PM, rastaban did and then you just said "lol I saw it too" It wouldn't take a genius to see that Chezinu sent it to risk either, or you just took a guess | ||
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Obviously Chezinu sent the message to risk, since all 3 of you are scumbuddies lol | ||
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Maybe as a ways to finally confirm the names of the mafia team to each other (although I guess you knew who each of you were by now) | ||
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On July 30 2012 08:13 austinmcc wrote: So Q-bert-Z just happens to bold the word mole in his earlier post, but it turns out he's town? So Zealos just happens to hide a scum message, then cut part of it to post it, then do nothing for the entire game, but it turns out he's town? I don't understand what the hell some townies are doing this game, so I'm done trying to understand what they are doing. And the third PM from N1, confirmed by WBG, just happened to materialize out of thin air? That's probably what the "Broadcaster" ability does, or it could have just been the remaining minion ability we don't know about (if it isn't the Broadcaster one) Plus, in either of your scenarios, rastaban is town. I just happen to know his role PM, despite all other mafia flipping with VT fakeclaims? *sigh* http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=192#3834 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=195#3890 It's obvious you just claimed the same thing he did | ||
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Plus you'll find out about it in 30 minutes | ||
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le sigh | ||
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lol, at some points of this game I was just laughing out loud (I was serious about it in that PM I sent to risk ). Everything went wrong for us After not being able to play D1 and having my credibility shot down I knew I couldn't do anything for the rest of the game (akin to Liar Game). I also legitimately though BH and Meapak were town >_> (well, Meapak was town-aligned so that was kind of accurate) | ||
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Like someone said, if they check an executive or minion-who-received-message on D1 they could out like 2-3 scum (depending on the message), and scum have almost no way to prevent that since they don't know any of the town roles in the game. Considering how many "obvious mafia" (layabout, Palmar, BH, sloosh, etc) were around, I didn't think there's be a "snoop" or something like that around since they would have checked one of them and outed their PMs already, and not get something on N4. | ||
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The only time I go away for ~30 hours 2 scum die and a bandwagon on the scum pardoner happens :/ I tried to do a heavy defense of Palmar there so people would think something like "there's no way scum would heavily defend someone so obviously scum like that who will obviously get lynched".....guess it didn't work :/ | ||
gonzaw
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On August 01 2012 07:54 Probulous wrote: I agree with what Bloody Cobbler is saying. I think if you halved the number of town blues the game would be fairer. Three day vigilantes is insane. We didn't need the snoopers or the cop to out the mafia team eventhough they are incredibly powerful roles. Risk, given the setup I have no idea why you would not just risk it on your own. Your team know you are looking for scum and unless you are a the town leader you are unlikely to get killed. If you do, well that is the risk you take. As for town lynching you, you have more power than the other townies in that you can night kill (once the rest are dead) so you should be able to manipulate town into misslynching. I know it is a risky strategy, I never said I expected everyone to do it. I am just suprised given 9 mafia that none tried it. PM Cops are irrelevant. Think about it, the people who the PM cops checked were all playing like mafia. The PM cop is the same as any other cop in that if you are playing with clarity they shouldn't check you. I tried to legitimately scumhunt... ....I actually thought Zealos was scum, BH and MZ were town, sloosh was more likely town and that Mattchew was scum (although I didn't pursue that since I thought he was the other executive ). Seriously lol Mattchew was always "gonzaw is town get off him!" and tunneling Katina so much I thought he was the other executive and the CEO gave him orders to keep me alive/tunnel Katina | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On August 01 2012 07:56 austinmcc wrote: I bought too hard into the "DTs check people who will be around later and you're going to want to know their alignment" mentality, so I avoided anyone I thought was going to get lynched. In hindsight, that was a particularly bad idea, because even when we had 2-3 clear candidates for a lynch I chose not to check any of them, fearing chance. Also, lol dem <_<s. I was reasonably sure you sent that because of the sender saying everyone thought him mafia, but those faces just confirmed it. If you'd been sending messages like that all along, you were getting to freely out yourself to every minion that noticed. I did that on purpose, so my minions knew who I was (also the linebreaks, bolded and underlined titles, and stuff). ....I guess that was a "common strategy" at that time, trying to give other mafia as much info as possible. Again I didn't know about any "nosy employer" role or anything so I didn't think there'd be any risks. I didn't know about the mole by then, but well I didn't really care about the mole knowing who I was. Plus all my minions were acting as scummy as fuck so I didn't think any of them would be a traitor >_> | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On August 01 2012 07:54 Probulous wrote: PM Cops are irrelevant. Think about it, the people who the PM cops checked were all playing like mafia. The PM cop is the same as any other cop in that if you are playing with clarity they shouldn't check you. That "PM Cop" outed three scum when he caught my message. It's not "irrelevant" if he can catch more than 1 scum with a "check", or can know all about scum's strategies (even if he outs only 1 scum). | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Also lol Zealos not only was "caught" yet was actually acting scummy. I can't believe how people didn't lynch him. Even I thought he was scum until like D4, how the hell did you guys figure out he was town? | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Ehm, should stop triple-posting and just edit my posts >_> Ooops there I go again | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On August 01 2012 10:05 slOosh wrote: Woo it's finally over! Really didn't expect to replace as an exec, seeing has this was only my second time rolling scum, and because Foolishness talked to gonzaw first, I was clueless for a half cycle, and was just relaying whatever he said because I didn't know what to say. This game was particularly difficult because as mafia we had to find out who mafia were separately from the thread, and in essence play two games at once, the first to find mafia teammates and the second to then push the not mafia. Not knowing if who you were pushing was 100% town or not causes hesitation, and it probably leaked out in the posts, whereas townies just played regular. It feels like most effort was put into identifying other mafia members, and therefore less energies were available to mislead / misdirect town. My first claim was probably panic induced as Foolishness was dead and suddenly I became the scum in charge without a clue how to play. I then pulled out the mole and doctored the PMs - second mistake here. I mistook pardoner for politician in my mind and thought BM was indeed mafia, so screwed up there, and I subbed katina's name with risk's which I believe played a part in his lynch (not sure, wasn't paying too much attention after I died) - didn't know risk was scum so shot ourselves in the foot there too. I wanted to set up Meapak for the late game but I should have realized sooner that medic on mafia team was dumb as heck. Or maybe I realized when he did the worst fake claim of all time. Maybe if Foolishness was alive a couple more cycles so that we could get some communications going it would have helped us ... but I really think that even without communication just the pure knowledge of knowing who was on your team would be so much better. Like, scum don't get a QT but are given each member's names kinda setup could maybe show the importance of communication better. All in all, thank you hosts for hosting, and players for playing. p.s. join Mad Men Mafia so we can start playing. I loled when you posted the "fake" PMs and people started filtering QBertz, and outed him as scum because of it (because he was "crumbing he had a passive ability by calling quiet people out" and that shit, as well as noticing the mole thing). lol worst luck ever My first claim was probably panic induced as Foolishness was dead and suddenly I became the scum in charge without a clue how to play Well, it made me think you were town at least (since I sincerely didn't think of any reason for you to claim that as scum) Defending you there was my attempt to "play townie" >_> Same as defending BH <_< ...and MZ >_> lol it certainly came back to bite me in the ass I wanted to set up Meapak for the late game but I should have realized sooner that medic on mafia team was dumb as heck Hmm, I didn't realize it at the time....but surely the scum medic would be on Foolishness at all costs right? Like, he was the most "likely scum" a minion could find, and any minion would know a scum Foolishness was either likely executive or CEO. The fact that Foo' died without the medic protecting him could have convinced us the Medic was the traitor. Anyways, I went through much of the game assuming none of my minions were traitors (although I had a slight suspicion on Palmar at one time since he went against all mafia at one point I think :/ ) I'd really like some "strategy" talk from the hosts though Like...what to message to your minions and stuff. I couldn't think of anything :/ I just gave them all the info I had, crumbed my identity in the order....and just tell them "do your thing" and nothing else. I tried thinking of using risk's or QBertz's abilities somehow (to confuse town and shit) but couldn't come up with anything in particular throughout the whole game. Yeah I was kind of clueless about the orders (I knew that would have happened since even before joining though >_> I was mostly planning on playing town here and see how to catch "uninformed" scum, not be "uninformed" scum myself ) Also Foolishness...what was that "there will be a surprise in the thread at one point and you don't have to react to it, think about it before posting" thing you told us about? | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On August 01 2012 10:25 Probulous wrote: I was responding to risk. My point was that playing a solo game would make PM snoopers irrelevant because you would aim to look as townie as possible. Remember snoopers only get PM that go to or come from the person they check. But then the snoopers would still check that minion and see he received a scum message I made my reasoning quite clear. The claim thing was dumb but it made no sense from a scum perspective either. Actually his whole play this game was terrible but it was not malicious and he doesn't have a record of playing fantastically. Compared to yourself who I know is really inciteful when you roll town, so I knew you were scum. I mean I almost got you lynched Day 1 and the only thing stopping me from pushing you later was I thought you were genuinely busy. That and we had better targets. Couldn't you say the same thing about sloosh? I mean, his claim didn't "make sense from a scum perspective" either (was just bad), and his play wasn't that incriminating (compared to Zealos at least). Yet Zealos was never considered as lynch at all yet sloosh was always "almost confirmed scum" ever since he claimed. Of course, unless I'm missing something that made people think "Zealos is town" and "sloosh is scum" that didn't have anything to do with their "dumb claims/reactions". Look at your targets for scumhunting. They were easy to push, you never went after the really big fish and you never raised something completely new. If you are behind (people think you are scum) you have to do something different. Something big. It was really hard to establish your innocence in this setup because everyone should have been legitimately scumhunting. This was true for town and for scum. The problem scum had was they decided not to do that on Day 1 which meant you guys were never truly cleared. I tried doing that with supersoft on D2 and nobody paid attention to me at all (even if they agreed) By that point I knew I had zero town presence and everything I did was pointless basically. The only thing I aimed to do was: save Palmar on D3 (a 2-shot scum Pardoner could have been very useful in late-game), and try to convince people I was town by the way I pushed my reads (on players I thought were scum/town). As you can see my reads sucked as well so that didn't help :/ | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On August 01 2012 10:36 austinmcc wrote: 2 were caught by the snooping, Q-bert-Z was caught by his own posting. I agree that QBertz was "found" before by sloosh's PM incriminating him. But my PM basically confirmed him as scum since I heavily implied I was talking about him in it (and people figured it out). So before QBertz was "likely scum" but after my PM he was "almost confirmed scum" I agree that the role was strong, but we were also lucky in that I never caught a town message. Like, see rasta outing himself because of the double Chez message. Seemed like we would very well might have lynched Chez the next day, outing a nosy employee AND lynching a townie, just because of the town messaging roles. Honestly, in 8 checks we caught 1 scum message between the two of us. Had we caught a few town, especially town messages that were trying to fake mafia instructions...could have led to a couple easy mislynches and the outing of a few power roles. Just didn't play out that way. Yeah, had you not checked risk that would have happened. Again, shitty luck/circumstances there, I was getting happy that maybe we could have gotten 1 or 2 misslynches (in Chezinu/Katina) before losing Zealos didn't look lovely, but he was so entirely uninvested in the game before that message, and remained so entirely uninvested afterwards, that he didn't feel like a better lynch than other options. Plus, once mafia started flipping, they'd ALL been pushing Zealos. Made it really easy not to lynch the guy when every scum wanted him lynched. Yeah but scum didn't know each other. I thought Zealos was scum but "bussed" him to save Palmar (which didn't work). | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Like...BH died, and everybody was like "Yeah let's kill Palmar" and then other people were like "Okay" and that's it. | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On August 01 2012 12:38 Probulous wrote: Day 3 and Palmar had done exactly what? He clearly did not care about this game and so it was obvious he was mafia. With town in the position we were I would expect a town Palmar to actually participate. Have a read of the cases against him. He didn't care about it by N2 either yet people didn't call him out by that point. But when D3 started suddenly everybody instantly figured out he was scum and just voted him without saying anything. Remember the cases against Palmar were made like 24 hours into the day or something. Before that supersoft/syllo/Katina/etc were just "let's kill Palmar he's scum" and everybody else sheeped them. | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On August 02 2012 00:37 risk.nuke wrote: I asked them and It would say A message from the broadcaster: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I thought about confusing it with a "host message", but I figured out it would be like that :/ | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I knew there were similar roles like that in other mafia games.....but what's their purpose? Like, people will instantly figure out the message comes from scum (since a townie wouldn't need that at all, he'd just claim his role or post whatever he wants to post in the thread himself), so people wouldn't pay much attention to the message. The only way I can think of it is to do something like this: "Hi town, I'm a townie and I found scum. However, I don't want to get shot at night so I'll make my case in here: *case against a player*" Or something like that, convincing people you are a townie that doesn't want to out himself or something. But other than that I don't see any benefits in that power :/ | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On August 02 2012 07:08 Probulous wrote: Qbertz. Who are you? Hmm, I'll just go out there and take a guess: Pandain perhaps? If not then maybe what Palmar said (nisani/sinani) | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
...hmm, I think I may have an idea of who he is. It certainly fits his posting style (without the whole "Hail Chezinu!" stuff at least) I won't say in case I'm wrong though >_> | ||
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On August 03 2012 03:38 Kurumi wrote: Qatol, I was dead. I should die Day 1. I was the lynch target and then slipped because RoL nuked me(dud nuked). There is nothing I could do different. You sent the nuke on RoL way before you were "already dead" (as in, before sandro made that PM thing with you). | ||
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