Bureaucracy Mafia!

On July 17 2012 19:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

I think every time I have used this logic of "I know I am 100% town" I have been scum. I actually don't ever recall seeing anyone use this as town.

##Vote: BlazingHand

On July 18 2012 06:38 risk.nuke wrote:

Okey good thanks, I just finnished reading up on the thread and I'd say I did better then skimming but not really a thorough readthrough either. Right now I'm feeling of a mind to join in on the austin wagon. It seems nice there.

On July 18 2012 14:06 Mattchew wrote:

why did you do this 3 minutes (aka knowingly) past deadline..

On July 18 2012 12:37 Chezinu wrote:
Yeah, I've been talking about all day. I work for the department of communication.

My name is Mr. Walton, a pleasure to meet you.

On July 19 2012 04:54 Blazinghand wrote:


You're right, let's have more chezinu talking, that will make this thread easier to understand

On July 19 2012 05:00 HiroPro wrote:
Zealos, who would you like to kill other than austin? Don't say Kurumi.

And can you explain your vote for austin? What did you find scummy?

On July 17 2012 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:

._. My point is that "if you are really a town player" you should be spending your resources to help me lynch syllo. You're not doing much to convince me right now.

On July 19 2012 04:59 Blazinghand wrote:


The constant claims of being unable to keep up with the thread seem to be the crux of the issue.

On July 19 2012 05:19 Blazinghand wrote:


LOL WUT

LOL

"an influential town player"

Kurumi at that time? Are you fucking kidding me? Kurumi was caught scum and was self-destructing, and I figured on the off chance he was town I'd give him some advice on what to do before he died so that after the flip he'd look good. Are you even paying attention? Kurumi? Did you read the thread?

Come on, man, there's tons of evidence against me, tons of qutoes you could use, and you used THAT ONE? Did you just quote a random post from me or what? Put some serious effort in. It's not THAT HARD.

LOL

On July 20 2012 05:51 Kurumi wrote:

GGQ

I am very confident that GGQ is scum. His filter is not even one page long. (Actually 5 in-game posts.)
"How can you say anything about the guy then, Kurumi?"
Some of you have pointed out that Mafia's biggest objective is to survive. You can do it vanilla style - try to blend in during the discussion. You can do it lurker style - just avoid the fire and appear when everything's a little more silent... There's always false townie style, where you basically try to forget about your role and go with the flow while trying to keep in mind who's good target and who's not. As we've seen so far, being a lurker in this game is a GREAT option. We've been attacking each other like mad. If it wasn't an in-game attack, it was an attack on person her/himself.
We've got a good player lurking like mad for no reason. It's already Day 2. If he was really occupied, guess what - he'd get replaced, just like two guys already, but he has no reason to ask for one.
When I call him out that he is actively lurking(I am going to count how much it takes you to respond to this GGQ by the way)


How does that answer sound to you? It's strict denial. He sees nothing wrong with his play. He feels no guilt. Why would he?
There's a post by him in this quote too. He shares... a little of his knowledge... HE HAS PLAYED TWO DAMN SLEEPER CELL GAMES. Everything he has to tell us is that Mafia do whatever they please on Day 1. Solid advice here man.

He tries to shift focus off from Palmar. He is defending him telling people that Palmar is just like that. That's what Palmar should've probably said, right? Look at how this post ends "has never changed him before and it won't now" it's a decisive NO. And this BH vote. He did explain it, right?


TO SEE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN? Sounds like someone doesn't freaking care about the lynch?
Wait, he does care, look at the last line!

Why would a person with no thread presence try to defend Palmar? GGQ has NEVER said anything about Palmar. Never EVER.
If you were searching for a guy trying to survive - here you go. Why would you lurk as Town in this game? With 1KP, Mafia has little power to do anything to stop you from acting. Sure, they might have roleblockers, maybe politicians or anti-nukers, but it's the cases which should win games.
Palmar and Bill Murray are playing similar style, where they mostly post one-liners or troll material. Palmar just now started pushing layabout hard (without proper case, just some meta to back it up).
GGQ has a lot of knowledge. It is Day 2 and he hasn't shared ANY of it. He is denying us information. No cases made, no activity in the thread, NOTHING. He is trying for his survival. If he comes guns blazing at any point in the game... I think you'll get it that he's scum.
I am voting GGQ.
##vote GGQ

On July 20 2012 06:08 Blazinghand wrote:
So I guess that's Zealos' post for today. No response, huh/

On July 20 2012 07:34 sandroba wrote:
Man this is fun.

I messaged Zealos yesterday before the day post. He never revealed he got pm. I just got confirmation that the pm was sent and Zealos has posted twice since then. So yeah fun times.

On July 20 2012 09:24 Probulous wrote:


ROFL he stated it quite clearly that he wanted that person to claim they received the PM before the deadline

On July 20 2012 09:32 Probulous wrote:


Yes he called you scum, but note the bold. He wasn't sure until you didn't answer.

On July 20 2012 09:38 VisceraEyes wrote:


sigh

That's clearly designed to look like a scum message Zeal. :/

On July 20 2012 09:44 Kurumi wrote:


Did you miss that post or what?

On July 20 2012 09:46 Kurumi wrote:

Roleclaim.

On July 22 2012 04:35 Blazinghand wrote:
I mean, if our thought is "sandro can't be trusted" I'd see why we're not lynching Zealos, but... we're also not lynching sandro? It just seems to me that between Sandro, Zealos, and Palmar we should totally be able to find a non-me lynch today

On July 22 2012 12:05 rastaban wrote:

Who was it, VE I think, who even said Vt would be enough. Over compensation.

Lynch Zealos

On July 23 2012 09:54 gonzaw wrote:
lol when I saw Foo' flip CEO it made my day :D
I was very surprised about BH though, I really thought he was town.

---

About sloosh/supersoft:
I don't see any reason for sloosh to fake-claim he shot Foo' as scum if he wasn't the one that actually shot him.
I don't really see a reason for supersoft to fake-claim that either, unless he wanted to push a misslynch on sloosh.
We need to be sure about it, supersoft has been acting shady all game and this "contradiction" here doesn't sit well with me.
Can both of you get confirmation that vigs waste their bullets if they shoot the same target?
If there is scum between them he'll have to fake that info, and depending on what they claims we can get a confirmed scum between them.
I don't really see the "I can only shoot 1.5 cycles after scum aren't dead" thing suspicious...since it's too odd to claim as scum.
Wouldn't it just be better for him to fake-claim regular vig as scum? Or a vig that can only start shooting from N2 onwards or something? Claiming something weird like that will only catch attention, as will fake-claiming that vig shot from the get-go.

---

Did you read the thread Katina? I already explained why I was posting like that on D1.
Some of the things you say don't make sense, you accuse me of things (I didn't do) when you've done them yourself.
Here:

I didn't complain there was "much chaos"; I complained there was a lot to read and didn't have time to do it (albeit you could make the case "much to read"=="spam"=="chaos", but that's not what I was pointing out at the time).

Also, the thing you accuse ME of doing is the EXACT SAME THING you have been doing this game:









Every time ever since D1 you make a post getting angry about how much "chaos and confusion" there is in town, yet you are the one that does nothing about it.
You just complained, yet the only thing you did was post useless lists about "people that need to die" that serve no purpose, and accuse people over and over and over. Every post of yours is just "we need to kill Foolishnesh" or "we need to kill BH".
Yes, Katina is scum, the more I read her filter the more I'm convinced about it. When she's active she doesn't participate in any discussion. Every time she posts she's aggressive against someone, and restates reads she had long ago and doesn't add anything new.

Katina keeps posting these lists of "people that need to die" that don't add anything new, specially since they are constantly changing and she doesn't really explain why she changes them at all.

+ Show Spoiler +

She never explained why syllo and BM are not suddenly on her "to-kill" list, and every time she makes a "case" against someone new and adds them to the list, thinking that's the only thing she has to do to contribute and "prevent town chaos".

I don't think a town Katina would act like this at all. She's just throwing suspicions around every time she posts ignoring everything else that's happening, which actually adds to the chaos she herself keeps "complaining" about in 80% of her posts.
Pre-Edit:

Really? Another list?

---

About Palmar:
I don't agree with this lynch at all. This lynch is based on him "being Executive because of balance issues" and because "Foo defended him without reason".


I also Palmar is most likely town.

Here is his filter this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=87086
Here is his filter from iGrok's game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=87086

In iGrok's game he did stay to his "town aggressive Palmar" game on D1, but however as you can see from D2 onwards he stopped giving a shit about the game and just trolled from then on.
I don't see that this game. In D2 he even started to be active and give his reads and reasoning behind them, even more so than in D1, and that's not how scum Palmar plays, he's putting much more effort this game than when he's scum.

---

About Zealos:
He's scum as well.
He hasn't contributed AT ALL ever since D2. His few posts ever since have just been "hi I'm not scum" and nothing else.



Only two posts he made since then and they are completely useless
He was outed by sandro on D2 as well, yet it seems everybody ignores that

---

I'm down with a Katina, austin or Zealos lynch right now, I'm not too sure on supersoft (because of the claim) until we can confirm their claims.
I'd like people's thoughts on Katina and austin before voting.
Actually fuck it, here:

##Vote: Zealos

If anybody is "confirmed scum" by now it's him.
I'll change my vote to consolidate later on austin/Katina/etc if necessary

On July 23 2012 19:35 Palmar wrote:
i'm voting zealos.

because of this:




and this



Which basically means he's guaranteed to be scum.

On July 23 2012 20:30 Mattchew wrote:

Riveting

+ Show Spoiler [......] +

On July 23 2012 20:34 Mattchew wrote:

cool that makes 2 of us!

On July 25 2012 02:21 HiroPro wrote:


Explain the case to me then please.

On July 25 2012 05:27 slOosh wrote:

How is what you are doing different from what hiro is doing? Also, any reason why you doctored Sandroba's message when you posted it?

On July 25 2012 06:32 marvellosity wrote:
Oki doki, here are my thoughts (so you can hold me accountable, VE )

Meapak_Ziph: Yeah, there's a high likelihood he's scum. syllogism pre-empted what I was going to say about him a couple of pages ago:

+ Show Spoiler +

Passivity is the name of the game. I have two recent memories of Meapak playing town, that is Liar mafia and LV. In Liar Mafia Meapak was a central figure, being a part of the meapak/gonzaw/ET town circle. More pertinently, in LV he believed he had found scum in VisceraEyes, and what did he do? He made a big case and then relentlessly pushed VE until he got his lynch. We have none of this here. Here he has 'found scum' in rastaban and makes a case. Except he never pushes anyone to lynch rastaban, even though he pops up on occasion to go "yeah rastaban is still scum" and the like. Meapak is uninvested and scum.

Zealos - he is scum. Again he is uninvested in the game. He doctored sandroba's message to him in addition to not bringing it to the thread originally (I'm aware Kurumi flipped town, but it is definitely anti-town...). layabout brought up how Zealos played in Bang Bang. A decent filter comparison because he replaced into both games. It seems clear to me that Zealos was much more interested and invested in the course of that game (even if he did make questionable decisions). He was quite active and at least looking for some truth. Here his filter is defending himself poorly and very little else. What is Zealos trying to do? Also the case on Hiro is bad and smells of him making an effort because he feels he finally needs to.

rastaban - not quite as sure with rastaban as I am with the two above, but I think he will flip scum. Earlier in the game, MZ's case was an accurate summation of rastaban's play. He was going wherever the lynch was easiest, taking the path of least resistance. Since the time of his case, he's pinged the other way in what reads to me as an artificial attempt at pushing new/interesting ideas.

He magics a townread on Kurumi on the basis that Kurumi /outs a different game, and when the sentiment was anti-Foolish he buddies up to him



Just the tone of how it's written feels fake. "Look! I'm being different! yay!" He also makes a bizarre case on layabout on the basis of wbg's nightkill. It was an entire case built on some wifom and fundamentally he seems to be thinking in a different way than I'd expect a townie to.

---

Other bits and bobs: gonzaw: I seem to have a townread on him now having looked through his filter. His posts read as genuine and earnest to me. He's had a couple of dodgy reads which I'd love to say constituted an agenda, but he never pushed the misdirection of them, so I'm not seeing it. On Katina: her filter is interesting. My question to her some pages back re:syllogism was the question mark I took out of reading her filter earlier. I'm not quite sure how she can have a null read on syllo at the moment, syllo is too prominent for this to be the case. Some of it read quite decently though with her belief of BH/Palmar being scum. Basically I'm saying I'm on the fence with her atm.

On July 26 2012 06:35 gonzaw wrote:
I think someone asked why would scum Zealos not out the "incriminate" part from sandro's message.

...well, for one I'd ask myself why scum Zealos wouldn't out the whole message in the first place, since he knew sandro made a similar trick with Kurumi and even said in the thread that he'd PM someone a message he wanted to out.
But well, maybe he was indeed a minion who was never messaged before.

Anyways, the point is that if he's town, and was indeed dumb enough to keep the message for some reason, he'd have no reason to out the whole message, even the "incriminating" part.
If he was town he'd post it all, but he didn't.

It makes perfect sense as "outed" scum at that point. He leaves out the incriminating part of the message so people don't think it was an "obvious scum message", and hopes sandro doesn't read it.
Sandro already knew the message he sent him, so if he saw a thing similar to it that Zealos posted he'd know it was the message he sent, but it was possible he didn't strictly read the whole message trying to find inconsistencies (since he knew that message was his, he already knew the content).
I think Zealos was counting on that: sandro not reading the whole message Zealos posted and not outing the "incriminating" part.

Because the alternative, that Zealos is town and deliberately cut out that part and never mentioned it again, is EXTREMELY hard to believe, specially with Zealos' behaviour this whole game (i.e he doesn't seem to care about it).

On July 26 2012 06:58 gonzaw wrote:
Zealos:
There's also the very incriminating fact about the sandro' message that makes 0% sense if he was town, and he never mentioned again or even tried to explain why he cut the message.
Here:


That's all he has to say. Apparently he's so dumb he accidentally cutted of part of the message when he posted it.
Well I don't believe that, the fact that he didn't explain at all why he did that is more damning, as also the fact that he doesn't try to do anything even after people have given him a 2nd chance ever since D2

So that's why I think we should lynch Zealos today:
"There's a very good chance he's going to flip Mafia. Tomorrow we can worry about Meapak"

We still have 24 hours or more, this isn't coming down to a "gonzaw vs Meapak" lynch just because syllo/supersoft says so.