Bureaucracy Mafia!

On July 06 2012 08:26 Kurumi wrote:
I'd play a game with lots of veterans.. but I'd be a liability, so obs qt for me when this starts

On July 10 2012 15:40 gonzaw wrote:


Sorry, but you need to make some papers and get the signature of the majority of the players playing this game, plus all hosts/co-host with their approval of your spam policy before you are allowed to strike down spam.

After that, you need to go over to mafiascum.net and other mafia sites, get into a meeting with their administrators to determine the current spam regulations applied universally to all mafia games.
After that's done, you have to meet with the administrator of TL, give him the signed paper with all the signatures from players/hosts, and get him to sign a form indicating that they allow you to strike down spam in this site.
After that, you need to go back and meet all other mafia sites' administrators, give them this signature and get them to sign a new form giving you permission to enforce their new spam policy in your games.

After that's done, you need to come here again, wait 2 weeks for all proceedings to resolve, and meet with the TL administrator and get him to agree for you to use the spam policy on this particular game ("Bureaucracy Mafia").
After that's done, you need to meet in person with Foolishness and those other guys so they can agree on you enforcing the spam policy in a game that follows the Ban List.
If they disagree, you need to go meet the TL administrator again and get him to overrule their disagreement so you can enforce the spam policy.
If he's on vacation you need to meet with the administrators of the other mafia sites so they can overrule it; however you need to wait 1 month so they have their schedule free to do so.
After this matter is resolved, then you are free to strike down spam once this game begins
(following the universal rules of spam-strikedown of course)

On July 12 2012 04:53 Incognito wrote:


What are you talking about? This is a signup.

On July 14 2012 01:05 Zealos wrote:
/in
Looks like I'll be back in time to play this - Looks awesome :D

On July 17 2012 05:02 marvellosity wrote:


Cool! I also particularly like why you're lynching BH:

On July 17 2012 05:30 sandroba wrote:
kurumi is scum 100%. LOL. Trust me on this one people. I KNOW HE IS SCUM. Go vote kurumi everyone.

On July 17 2012 05:57 Chezinu wrote:


If all of the minions random selected someone to kill at night, there would be a 1/6521 => 0.0153% that the CEO will have to kill a mafia member. The CEO must pick the person to kill. He won't kill the Chairman of the Board and the Chairman of Marketing. The minions don't know each other.. So, if everyone acts innocent... it will confuse the mafia? each minion may have an ability.. like busing or weapons of mass destruction... minions will not always follow orders.. They will not always receive orders... If town has abilities... chaos has arrived. Now, it is time to set order to the chaos...

On July 17 2012 06:08 sandroba wrote:
Meh I think mafia is going to kill me anyway so no harm doing this. I can msg people. kurumi just nuked someone so I knew he couldn't be CEO/Chairman/President. So I messaged kurumi this:

Use "of course" "pretty sure" and "very well" in the same post so your peers can identify you as soon as you read this. Look for this combination starting tonight to identify the others.

His next post was this:



So there ya go he just got owned.

The repercussions of my claim is that even after mafia kills me they can't know for certain there is no other abilities like mine in the game so all their communication is no longer safe. Have fun mafia =P

If anyone has any sort of day killing abilities they should shoot kurumi right now. If no one does so and some killing ability gets used during the day down the line that means that person is scum.

On July 17 2012 09:21 Probulous wrote:


*GASP*

He doesn't know...

On July 18 2012 05:00 Kurumi wrote:

I DON'T FUCKING CARE IF YOU CAN'T SEE IT
I CARE THAT PEOPLE WITH SOMETHING IN THEIR HEADS SURVIVE

On July 18 2012 05:11 Kurumi wrote:
Latest Town RoL filter
Now go to hell VE
If you were town you'd do your research. But you aren't.
Also, with this single post I've done more than you during entire game.
Suck it.

On July 16 2012 20:16 Palmar wrote:
edit: forgot the link: http://www.palmar.org/mafia/random.txt

On July 18 2012 08:25 Chezinu wrote:

You just haven't gotten to the part where they agreed it is time to set order to the chaos... It was a really great story!

On July 18 2012 08:36 Probulous wrote:


I'd be much happier with a Gonzaw lynch.

On July 18 2012 08:52 Chezinu wrote:

aww then I can't say than one is laying about lurking and the other is risking getting nuke... ok, I'm going to actually have to think for this one... (and read their posts for the first time?)

On July 18 2012 09:19 Foolishness wrote:

Deciding where to move my vote to. This is chaotic guys.

On July 18 2012 09:25 marvellosity wrote:
you're on drugs if you think 13 more people are gonna vote gonzaw in the next few hours

On January 17 2012 13:28 Foolishness wrote:
READ CAREFULLY! DON'T LOSE THIS POST! REPOST MANY TIMES

I am making this post as a way of compiling the thoughts of the few people in this game who are making sense and posting good analysis. A lot of it will be my own thoughts, but it's heavily based on a few people (should be obvious) who are the most transparent and the most obvious townies.

9 Mafia remaining. Here's the preliminary suspects: Macpo, GGQ, L. These are the people I feel we have the best case for and most of the transparent people in the thread seem to agree about these 3. Personally I think GGQ is town and we should avoid lynching him for now. Protact already gave viable reasons why Macpo is better than GGQ today, and I feel there is little to argue there. sandroba pointed out how L is acting like in Ver's game, and I couldn't agree more. We also have Incog's analysis against L.

Secondary suspects: Bill Murray, chaosquo, evantrees. These 3 people have garnered attention from a few people but not from everyone, so they are listed as secondary candidates. I am of the belief that all 3 of these people are mafia. evantrees is already mentioned by Incog. I think Cyber_Cheese highlighted a good summary of chaosquo here. Most of it is similar arguments to Macpo.

Bill Murray as red? I think so. Others have cast suspicion but there's not been a full analysis anywhere. A few people have commented that the election "feels" weird in some way, and I definitely sympathize. The votes for Bill Murray come across as the most suspicious: lots of random votes there. Personally I was surprised he even got into office (remember I was out all day so I saw the results without reading the previous 20 pages). I do realize I may have initially pushed him into candidacy, but I shall take responsibility for that and see to it that he's lynched in the near future. But to be simple: Bill Murray posted a lot, and got into office. Since then he's been pretty passive at the helm (so has BC I realize). That's good enough reason to warrant a ton of suspicion, as he should be actively scumhunting and posting without fear at this point.

Remaining mafia candidates: Jackal, Opz, kingjames, zeks. Incog has an analysis against Jackal as we know. I am not on board with him being mafia yet. Traditionally when he is mafia he posts paragraphs, and not one-liners. However he warrants suspicion for having an apathetic attitude.

Opz is someone who I believe Sheth was the first to cast doubt on, and I must say Sheth is definitely onto something. I know of the past Opz as a town player who is aggressive, not afraid to call people out on their bullshit. That's something we aren't seeing much of this game. He's posted a few of his own thoughts, but there is a clear lack of effort. Bored townie who is facepalming at having to read 100 pages? Possibly. Mafia hiding in the shadows? Fits better.

kingjames is called out on by Incog, and there's further analysis by BC. His last sentence is the perfect sum to kingjames: "The key thing to note is that in contrast to his town play where he is outgoing and analytical, his posts in this game are very subdued, seem artificial and feel overly planned." kingjames has yet to do anything to contradict this.

zeks I felt strongly about yesterday, he made a bad post which is nothing like his normal outspoken attitude (though it's been a while since he's played I think). He has since asked for a replacement and hasn't posted, but should still be looked at in the future.

Meapak_Ziphh is someone I would like to throw out there as a candidate (which shouldn't be a surprise from the few of my recent posts). What has Meapak done this game? Tried to get GGQ lynched, and unfortunately that's about all he's tried to do. There is a very aggressive push from him to kill this guy, which I find a little suspicious and slightly out of character.

---

Mafia: Macpo, GGQ, L, Bill Murray, chaosquo, evantrees, Opz, Kingjames, Meapak_Ziphh.

Substitute a few off candidates and I think we've found our 9: Jackal, BrownBear, zeks, Munk-E, other random inactive player goes here.

DONT LOSE THIS POST ITS SO IMPORTANT!

Writing all that I think the usefulness of this post is immediately made clear. The most prominent townies and the ones doing the analysis are all right on most of their reads. It's just each person has found 2-3 mafia on their own, and most of the time they are all different. Pooling this information together I realize it's hard to call anyone and their analysis wrong, as when you analyze the big picture everything fits together.

Anyone in their right mind would look at this game and think "wow this atmosphere is perfect for the mafia". Ver once told me that lots of times it's easier to find the mafia when the town atmosphere sucks because they will not be the ones causing chaos and disruption. Instead they will be sitting on the sidelines enjoying the show while the townies flail around. Look at all the names I've listed above. Everyone (yes everyone on that list) is guilty of apathy and does not have the interests of the town in mind. They are not thinking long term, or analyzing the big picture. They aren't playing the game, they are watching.

Macpo

Many others have said so, and though I may be biased, I still think it's best we lynch him today. I believe his case is still by far the strongest we have at the moment, especially since he has responded to his threats (with even more reason to kill him). At the time of writing GGQ has yet to say anything. We kill him (Macpo) today and spend the night figuring out who has the next best case. In the meantime, I'm going to be looking for connections between the above players to see if anyone can be ruled out or automatically included.

IF YOU HAVE FINISHED READING AND YOU ARE A COMPETENT TOWN PLAYER PLEASE READ AGAIN

Also, after sifting through this information, I feel we have a strong enough lead to start killing like there's no tomorrow.
##Vote: double lynch

On July 19 2012 04:30 syllogism wrote:
We are lynching katina or foolishness

On July 17 2012 05:56 Katina wrote:


Mafia does stupid things, Palmar does stupid things. Especially when he's Mafia or third party, your reasoning for that is "He can't be that stupid if he's Mafia". Why would you redirect the nuke at marv? I don't like the vote on syllogism right now, especially with your lack of reasoning behind it. You want to shoot Kurumi and redirect a nuke at Marv. Can you elaborate?

It seems that you are throwing around doubt and trying to side track people in your first post. You post one sentence about people who are scummy such as Kurumi (which you seem to have scummy feelings towards) and Palmar. You basically posted close to nothing just a sentence maybe two on a few people. I know you all too well, those are the things you taught me to do. I know you are Mafia love cake <3

On July 19 2012 05:19 Blazinghand wrote:


LOL WUT

LOL

"an influential town player"

Kurumi at that time? Are you fucking kidding me? Kurumi was caught scum and was self-destructing, and I figured on the off chance he was town I'd give him some advice on what to do before he died so that after the flip he'd look good. Are you even paying attention? Kurumi? Did you read the thread?

Come on, man, there's tons of evidence against me, tons of qutoes you could use, and you used THAT ONE? Did you just quote a random post from me or what? Put some serious effort in. It's not THAT HARD.

LOL

On July 19 2012 05:21 syllogism wrote:

I liked it too, but by this point it's outweighed by all the bad, in particular her last few posts. This just screams lazy mafia

She went from "knowing [foolishness] is mafia" to basically ignoring him.

On July 19 2012 05:33 marvellosity wrote:
so smooth, VE <3

On July 19 2012 05:41 marvellosity wrote:
I'd lean on town-side of null on Palmar atm.

On July 19 2012 05:51 marvellosity wrote:
Also VE, I am extremely happy to discuss practically anything with you, I've just not got the energy to discuss you thinking I'm scum.

On July 19 2012 06:22 austinmcc wrote:
Anyone else really liking this idea, or some form of it?
For all the talk about how votes were swapped/the deadline sucked/no lynches suck, I think this was really the only suggestion that proposed a decent way of dealing with those problems. It's not perfect, but I feel like it's certainly better than all the swapping last night, and despite Foolishness's admonitions about vote swapping leading to no-lynches, we've got so many different reads being thrown around that the thread is clogged with options and I don't really see us doing a great job consolidating through that early on future days.

Maybe the deadline change helps with a few players, but as long as we enforce it, does anyone think that shaving off...maybe even 8 hours from the day cycle is going to lead us to a much worse lynch than a full 48 hours' discussion?

On July 19 2012 06:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Okay, several things:

I can confirm that there is at least one messaging power that can be used on townies. I received this after the daypost:



And I confirmed with the host that this is a player-sent message.

Secondly we have two near-confirmed scum in Kurumi and Zealos. If you're a vig or you have any sort of night KP it might be a good idea to kill them given that tomorrow will likely be a wash if they're alive.

On July 19 2012 06:34 sandroba wrote:
WBG is not the person I messaged.

On July 19 2012 06:55 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Actually I had considered that. I didn't ask you to use it, simply if you were going to.

On July 19 2012 07:46 wherebugsgo wrote:
Who cares? Vigis should shoot scum, and anyone that's confirmed scum should die immediately.

This is a closed setup, speculating about whether the nuke use is one shot or not is pointless. We don't know and we can't know. Telling vigis to shoot elsewhere is a recipe for a townie getting shot.

On July 19 2012 09:25 Probulous wrote:
@VisceraEyes

Are you ignoring me? Come on son, you can't post a wall of text and then disappear. People will think you are mafia.

On July 20 2012 05:46 marvellosity wrote:
Are you purposefully being stupid?

On July 20 2012 06:00 marvellosity wrote:
good. you ask what i particularly like the case.

I quote the part where I said what I particularly liked about the case and why, and you post some drivel. If that's the level of cognitive thought you're capable of this game then ignore away.

On July 20 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:


ok let's not ruin the thread. what about my quote didn't you understand?

1) I said the part I particularly liked was where MZ said rastaban was always going with the flow and never dissenting
2) I said that is what I viewed as classic mafia mindset in this setup
3) MZ brought this to the thread where it had not been shown before

I don't understand what you think is missing from this explanation

On July 20 2012 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
or you just won't answer for reasons I can't comprehend. you're a very very strange person.

On July 20 2012 07:47 supersoft wrote:
syllo, sandro
opinion:

zealos first because kurumi seems to have no powers today?

On July 20 2012 09:18 marvellosity wrote:


Your note is good enough. I have a hatred for people who post like that anyway. If I were offered right now for him to be dead or alive, I'd choose dead.

On July 20 2012 09:37 Zealos wrote:
Right now people are starting to talk about you, but I suspect that if you put in a little bit of time soon they will forget. Town has a lot to go through in terms of lynch, so if you shape up even a little bit I'm sure they will soon forget. If you have any useful abilities from your role please try to crumb it subtly during the next day so in the next message I can suggest you how to use it. Hopefully this communication problem will be gone by tomorrow.

On July 20 2012 11:10 Katina wrote:
This thread is so messy it's not even funny.
Here's what needs to happen:

Keep your votes on Kurumi. We are not going to spend the last day bringing up new candidates (Like Zealos) and throw the thread into complete chaos again then end up with another no lynch. There's hard evidence on Kurumi right now, let's not forget that. We will see what his flip is then go from therw. When D3 hits THEN will we start voting for other people who are Mafia. (Mattchew, Palmar, Foolishness, Blazinghand, etc)

There has been roughly ten pages since I looked at the thread this morning and all the content in those pages say close to nothing about anything. It's all a bunch of derp and twerp that is continuing to keep the thread horrible cluttered and disorganized. I'm surprised to see that the veteran players (who are usually good at keep direction for the town) are sitting around doing nothing or contributing to the chaos as well. If this continues then this game will be fast and resulting in a for sure Mafia victory.

On July 17 2012 11:00 wherebugsgo wrote:


Yourself?

On July 02 2012 16:07 Protactinium wrote:
Extra Information:
The mafia kill process goes like this:
Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline.

On July 17 2012 10:04 wherebugsgo wrote:


<3

I believe you're the only one who even acknowledged my question.

I agree with all three kills but I'd rank them differently. Wouldn't mind killing Blazingscum and layabout too, they're all scum. All scum, god damn them.

Oh and Wiggles is AFK. Just thought I'd throw that out there, he hasn't posted yet. Possibly rolled scum again, the bastard. OH and BM is afk too. Wtf? Well hell, half the players are afk. W/e.

Let's focus on one player first:

Shit that makes layabout scummy:

Read his filter first, it's not long at all. Keep that in mind for a second.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=233798

He does nothing but shed doubt on sandro's claim. He instantly disbelieves it without considering other evidence. He knows the caliber of sandro's town play yet he doesn't even acknowledge the possibility that sandro could be town.

In addition he's stayed toward the back of the discussion, as he does when he is scum. When he is town he is out in front if he thinks people are being stupid. He will kick and scream and call people retarded if they're doing something he disagrees with. Clearly he disagrees with us sheeping sandro on his catch of Kurumi (otherwise why else would he shed doubt on it?) but notice that he actually doesn't do anything to stop the wagon.

i.e. his doubt is unfounded and he wants to undermine sandro without taking heat for the action itself. Scum tactic.

Kurumi is going to die at the end of the day.

Thus, we should kill someone else. Let's kill this guy for now. Make the bad man fly.

##unvote
##vote layabout

On July 19 2012 21:01 marvellosity wrote:


I'd like to give this some love. I started off reading it sceptically but at the end I was down with it. Meapak demonstrates in rastaban what I would classify as the classic mafia mindset in this setup - not rocking the boat, going with the flow, not drawing attention to yourself with dissent. rastaban this game is classic mafia.

On July 20 2012 13:59 Blazinghand wrote:

I feel so betrayed

On July 20 2012 14:03 Blazinghand wrote:


So you're saying I have 4 IRL days before it's optimal to push me in which to find someone scummier than me! IM ON IT

On July 20 2012 14:43 Blazinghand wrote:


;_; I just want to help

On July 20 2012 16:56 Q-bert-Z wrote:
As far as suspects, I can say before I sleep that Foolishness's play strikes me as...hidden. I feel like he's got a lot more going on than he's saying all at once, and that more or less agrees with what I know of him from his town play. Definetly not his lurk till day three then rape, but it doesn't strike me as scum. Either way not conclusive, and all around a bad lynch.

GGQ still reads scum to me, though there really hasn't been much change to what he's done since I last mentioned that.

Blazinghand looks like scum, with the exception of the amount of effort that he's putting into posting. (even if a lot of it isn't helpful)

If I were around tomorrow, I would push GGQ, but I'm not going to be. I agree with most of what has been said about Layabout and Zealos, and would vote for them if GGQ wasn't an option.

Kill sand if you want to know the truth... there be some communicahtions that are goingz about... these messages takes a lots of the times to get to where they be the be going... so you beetter bees the living when you the gets this! or your gonna have to the protect the Director of the Communication!

On July 21 2012 02:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Seems to me that as soon as sandro sends a message to 4 people he'll be confirmed, I see no reason to kill him until it becomes apparent he can't do this.

On July 21 2012 05:58 syllogism wrote:

You are right about the CEO part, but you can ignore that part and it still makes no sense at all.

On July 19 2012 09:54 sandroba wrote:
For today killing kurumi is fine. Starting tomorrow we begin a chase for the executives:

Win Conditions:

Town wins when all the Mafia are dead
Mafia wins when all the town are dead.

As long as the higher ups are still alive this game is horribly imbalanced in favor of mafia. But IF we can kill them off soon all communication will be lost and this will be a long drawn out game where mafia and town both have to eliminate each other completely to win. So that should be our goal for the following days.

On July 21 2012 03:37 sandroba wrote:

I picked someone I thought was mafia, I thought was minion and I believed there was a fair chance didn't get messaged already. Zealos seemed to be an optimal choice.

On July 21 2012 06:31 syllogism wrote:

Sigh, who was the most likely person to be protected n1? If mafia operated like that in every game, they would never kill anyone (assuming 1 kp).

On July 21 2012 07:18 syllogism wrote:

He is terrible no matter the alignment

On July 21 2012 07:28 supersoft wrote:


No no VE has a better idea to test sandrobas ability. He just lynchs him and reads the role-PM. Much safer and you dont have to use your brain.

On July 21 2012 06:19 rastaban wrote:


But he has to hit minions, scum already has a code in place to verify the messages. so he has to hit people not contacted yet.

I agree Kurumi as a personality was a bad choice as he would go along with it, but as a tactical choice it was the best as it wouldn't be an exec as it had used a power in a questionable way.

On July 02 2012 16:07 Protactinium wrote:
Extra Information:
The mafia kill process goes like this:
Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline.

On July 21 2012 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote:


This is an interesting development.

Anyone wanna verify what I'm seeing here?

On July 21 2012 08:35 Katina wrote:

Okay, really?

Anyone who says this guy shouldn't be our D3 lynch should seriously consider going back to some newbie games... He knows he's Mafia. He's only doing this because he's so obviously guilty.

On July 21 2012 08:39 Blazinghand wrote:


Look, I think it's pretty clear what's gonna happen. Either Kurumi flips scum and we lynch zealos tomorrow, or Kurumi flips town and we lynch Sandro tomorrow. I don't see how it could possibly be optimal to lynch me tomorrow.

On July 21 2012 09:18 Probulous wrote:

I have no grapes but I do have silverware. Is the kitty soft?

:p

On July 21 2012 09:26 Foolishness wrote:

So you think Blazinghand is town then?

On July 21 2012 09:35 Foolishness wrote:

That's the most ridiculous thing ever. Blazinghand has practically admitted he is mafia and you're just going to let him run around in hopes of hitting executives?

That's like a sane DT getting a red check and you don't kill the guy cause you think he's a miller (hilariously enough this happened in my first mafia game here...care to guess which side won?).

You can't ignore the players who have lots of good analysis against them (Blazinghand, Bill Murray, syllogism and austin and GGQ to some extent, etc) in the hopes of sniping an executive. That's just paving the way for a mafia victory; any competent person will tell you that.

On July 21 2012 09:43 Foolishness wrote:

I didn't mean to piss you off or be that mean when I posted that. You're one of the few people that are making sense this game; don't stab yourself now.

On July 21 2012 15:36 slOosh wrote:
Does Chezinu actually have confirmed powers or not? I've started off ok ignoring him but he has begun to seriously hamper thread legibility.

On July 22 2012 02:32 Foolishness wrote:

Weren't you just trying to tell us sandroba was scum?

On July 22 2012 02:41 supersoft wrote:
6. Foolishness
10. Meapak_Ziphh
7. VisceraEyes
16. GGQ
15. syllogism

at least 2 of them are guaranteed scum, otherwise the setup makes no sense balancewise.

On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote:
I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role?

On July 22 2012 04:35 Blazinghand wrote:
I mean, if our thought is "sandro can't be trusted" I'd see why we're not lynching Zealos, but... we're also not lynching sandro? It just seems to me that between Sandro, Zealos, and Palmar we should totally be able to find a non-me lynch today

On July 22 2012 04:43 Foolishness wrote:

Someone made a case against me?

Where?

On July 22 2012 02:50 VisceraEyes wrote:


AS usual, not reading the thread. It all revolved around my paranoid belief that sandroba was bussing his teammates and was an executive. This was disproven A) by him messaging me and B) by Kurumi flipping town.

Keep up Foolish, we can't carry you all game. Gonna have to do something bro.

BM has claimed some kind of vote-stealer. The fact that he claims it gives me hope that he's town, because I can see scum wanting to hide that power until necessary (Read: TL Mafia XLVIII). Jackal essentially won the game for us with it after we all mass-scum-claimed. *shrug*

He's calling me scum, but I think he's just misguided. He doesn't believe it strongly enough to push my lynch, and others have expressed at least passing suspicion of me (Mattchew, layabout?, marvellosity). Would scumBM not have pushed my lynch under these conditions if he were "suspicious" of me?

On July 22 2012 05:05 Chezinu wrote:


Can I have my own catergory, like maybe Crazy-???-Vets& ?

On July 22 2012 05:31 Foolishness wrote:

Blazinghand

He's trying so hard to act crazy like he does when he's town it's almost cute.