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On July 26 2012 07:36 supersoft wrote:
hey i am going to bed now.
Votecount is 5:6 in favour of Gonzaw.
If you don't claim within the next 5 minutes. My vote is on you and I'll go crazy if anyone doesn't move his vote on you.
A nolynch is no option for me, just to make that clear.
Are we going to go through the same shit from Bang Bang?
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I won't let you bully me into claiming again.
I still don't see any purpose to do so.
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On July 26 2012 07:38 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 07:36 gonzaw wrote:On July 26 2012 07:36 supersoft wrote:
hey i am going to bed now.
Votecount is 5:6 in favour of Gonzaw.
If you don't claim within the next 5 minutes. My vote is on you and I'll go crazy if anyone doesn't move his vote on you.
A nolynch is no option for me, just to make that clear. Are we going to go through the same shit from Bang Bang? I already realized that you try to mirror this play.
What?
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@Prob: I get angry when people just sheep vote me, or vote me for bad reasons and don't take the rest of my posts into account.
I also don't know when I "shouted and sweared", other than when I sweared at syllo for starting the wagon against me with shitty reasons.
Anyways your case is like 100% confirmation bias so I won't respond too much to it.
You are basically assuming me and MZ are scum and I know he's scum, and trying to nitpick stuff that shows that.
Even if both of us were scum, unless me/him were supervisor/minion I wouldn't even know he was scum (and trust me, when I'm scum I have shitty reads of other scum as well, just check Liar Game)
About MZ, I'm actually not very sure of him being scum. Yes, it's possible he's scum for reasons I've stated, and some people (that are likely town) that are so sure about him may indicate they saw something I didn't, but I'm not actually sure after reading his filter even more.
He seems too confident even when all players accuse him, and his behaviour seems similar to Liar Game which is why I'm wary (i.e he has that aggressive/confident tone in his posts in this game as well)
I also agree that Zealos was an "easy bus" for many players (palmar, layabout, etc), but that's because it was pretty apparent he was scum and his scumbuddies would have no choice but to bus him. If nobody even pays attention to him or votes him it makes it even easier for them to bus him, since apparently he was never in danger of getting lynched.
I haven't heard a single reason for why Zealos is town, I've only heard people (like Prob) saying that he might have been dumb townie and did the whole sandro incident by accident, but nothing else.
On July 26 2012 10:33 Katina wrote:
I do want to lynch sloosh but I always want to lynch you just as much gonzaw. I'm not going to switch my vote off of you since you are so high on my Mafia list. It doesn't look like a sloosh lynch wiill happen today and you have votes on you at the moment as well which is great (since you are Mafia) I think that trying to go after me is a desperate attempt to get attention off of you and onto me for close to no reason. You also tried to push attention onto sloosh.
You didn't start going after me until I started talking about you and added your name to my Mafia list. Whic h only increases my suspicions of you. I don't really care what you have to say about me or in your defense because I'm already sold on you. So when you are lynched and somehow flip town then I will write you a nice note and wash your car or something but until then I'm not moving it. So say whatever you want.
No, don't lie: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=122#2434
The fact that you accused me for things that were already explained made me more suspicious of you and then I reread your filter and figured out you were scum
Anyways I'll see if I have the time to check other players right now.
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On July 26 2012 11:13 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 10:49 gonzaw wrote:
You are basically assuming me and MZ are scum and I know he's scum, and trying to nitpick stuff that shows that.
Even if both of us were scum, unless me/him were supervisor/minion I wouldn't even know he was scum (and trust me, when I'm scum I have shitty reads of other scum as well, just check Liar Game) Explain to me where exactly I said I assume both of you are scum. My point is not that you know MZ is scum it is that you haven't bothered to take a position on the person on the opposing wagon. You are actively avoiding mentioning him and instead are determined to lynch Zealos. It is clear that Zealos is going nowhere today, there are virtually no votes on him, so why do you not bother to try and work out MZ? I mean if you think he is town, then we are all wrong but you can't be bothered to even try and convince us. If you think he is scum you have done everything in your power to step back from that position. You want us to ignore your opinion on MZ, given he is the only likely candidate for lynch today that is not you, why would you do this?
It is not clear that Zealos is going nowhere. You can't use people sheeping other's into voting MZ or me as a basis for me "pushing a guy that won't get lynched".
I guess if nobody does shit by now and park their votes like they did by now until the day ends he won't likely get lynched, but the alternative is to sheep the vote on MZ without thinking at all and just sit idle for the remainder of the day.
I won't do that.
why do you not bother to try and work out MZ?
What tells you I didn't?
I've read the cases against him, and I've already posted what I thought about him
Yes, he's not really scumhunting other than going against rastaban since D2. I don't really buy the "he's passive" case though, since he didn't seem passive to me.
Other than that I noticed his behavior and it seemed similar like in Liar Game, which like I said makes me uneasy about him being scum (even though he didn't bring anything to discussions, was inactive for quite a while, etc), and I'd even say he could be town because of it.
I'm not 100% convinced he's town because it's possible he's deliberately playing like this as scum to "stick to his town meta" or something.
Either way, I don't seriously think he's town to spend 100% of my time defending him, so instead I'm pushing for other people that are MUCH more likely to be scum than him and getting them lynched instead.
Like Katina said, we can deal with MZ later.
Show nested quote +About MZ, I'm actually not very sure of him being scum. Yes, it's possible he's scum for reasons I've stated, and some people (that are likely town) that are so sure about him may indicate they saw something I didn't, but I'm not actually sure after reading his filter even more. He seems too confident even when all players accuse him, and his behaviour seems similar to Liar Game which is why I'm wary (i.e he has that aggressive/confident tone in his posts in this game as well). Now that you are forced to take a position you say he is too confident thereby suggesting a scum MZ would not be confident? Like how is this a defense? You did exactly the same thing with Palmar. You tried to stop our lynch with bad reasoning and the only other target you bang on about is Zealos.
I'd bet that a scum MZ wouldn't be that confident, but I don't actually know. It's one thing that doesn't make me confident in him being scum, and it's possible he's town.
Here's his filter from Liar Game which is what I was using as reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=82024
Also it's not just his "confidence", but his attitude as well, like how he responds to people, the way he makes those short posts, etc.
It's strikingly similar to Liar Game. As you remember, everybody wanted him dead in that game too (at least until D4).
I "bang" on Zealos because he's the one most likely to be scum, and the "easiest" scum to get lynched (the one that would get the least opposition, at least I'd suppose)
Considering how little resistance the Kurumi lynch got on D2 it seriously baffles me how much resistance a Zealos lynch is getting all these days.
In fact he should have been lynched on D2 instead of Kurumi at least.
Show nested quote +I also agree that Zealos was an "easy bus" for many players (palmar, layabout, etc), but that's because it was pretty apparent he was scum and his scumbuddies would have no choice but to bus him. If nobody even pays attention to him or votes him it makes it even easier for them to bus him, since apparently he was never in danger of getting lynched.
I haven't heard a single reason for why Zealos is town, I've only heard people (like Prob) saying that he might have been dumb townie and did the whole sandro incident by accident, but nothing else. See here again, why do I have to prove Zealos is town. For all I know he may be mafia, but the reasons you are providing don't prove squat. Marvell and Hiro have pointed out some other stuff, which I already have banked for later, but you are content to push based solely on Sandroba's gambit which we know can catch dumb town. Saying that it is "pretty apparent" that he is scum is not case, especially when I am pointing out townie explanations for the only evidence you have presented. See I think you are too lazy to actually build a case that is not based on the PM.
Wat
Read the thread Prob: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=173#3455
Sandro's gambit (although sufficient in my mind) is not the sole thing that makes him scum.
If Zealos played pro-town and was "obvious town" there'd be no reason to use sandro's gambit against him since it would mean it was likely he derped there as town.
But he didn't. It's the fact that he was "outed" but never tried to prove his innocence later and just skirted by all these days making 1 case in 4 days.
Also, lol at that reasoning, here let me try:
"See here again, why do I have to prove MZ is town. For all I know he may be mafia, but the reasons you are providing don't prove squat. syllo and others have pointed out some other stuff, which I already have banked for later"
Seriously Prob, you are using confirmation bias. You just seem to follow syllo's and supersoft's mentality that everything you do is 100% correct and if somebody else does something different it's wrong and it's their fault and the only approach that works in this game is yours.
Now go and tell me why Zealos is town, or at least tell me if you think he's mafia or not. My vote on him obviously will be "wasted" if nobody does shit and just assume that going against Zealos is futile right off the start.
It's not.
Hell, that's what happened on D1. It wasn't even like 24 hours into D1 and voting for 1 guy that wasn't BH or austin was already a "wasted vote", even though we could have lynched the CEO by then had people not be so stubborn.
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Ha I knew I figured it out!
Yes, it's likely BH shot Foo' and sloosh fake-claimed the shot to "add to the chaos" and stuff; so it was all orchestrated by the higher-ups.
Meh, should have known some scum would just do what they were told without asking questions, since if sloosh was playing by himself that claim would have made no sense :/
You know, fuck it.
Nobody seems to listen to me, but I don't want to get misslynched this game, so I'll vote MZ.
Like I said it's possible he's town but maybe I'm wrong:
##Unvote: Zealos
##Vote: Meapak_Zipph
As for the rest of the team, I think Katina and Zealos would be the 1 remaining minions. Hmm, Katina could be executive though, specially if Foo' was the CEO, since it'd make better communications between them.
If you guys are right and MZ is the other executive, that leaves one minion/executive seat.
I think austin is the most likely to be scum out of them, but if somehow he's town....well, I'm not exactly sure, could be anyone of risk.nuke/rastaban/QBertz/Mattchew/Hiro, but we can deal with that later.
If Katina is minion, then it's possible Mattchew is Chairman, since I don't really think austin or one of the others would be executives.
Again assuming MZ is the executive like you guys said, but if he's town, then Mattchew+Katina would make sense as executive couple to me. They've been attacking each other ever since D1 but they never put each other as top scumreads, which could mean they figured out their alignment by now or Foo' insinuated it to them so they backed out.
I'm not too sure about Mattchew since he seem too calm, different than when he's scum, but it's possible he changed his play for this game to not make it too obvious to Can't Believe (since he was scum there as well), so we don't make the connection between both games immediately.
I doubt supersoft is scum by now, I think that "counterclaim" they were setting up was indeed BH. With BH claiming we know he'd start a giant shitstorm with sloosh that would clog up the thread.
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Wait
MZ, can you explain the choices of your targets each night?
What makes you think the mole would not come back as mafia?
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On July 27 2012 04:22 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 04:21 gonzaw wrote:
Wait
MZ, can you explain the choices of your targets each night?
What makes you think the mole would not come back as mafia? I think he is not allowed to claim
The mole?
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Is this like Palmar's Batman claim from Arkham City?
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If so maybe you should color your claim like this so we know that you are cc'ing mole but you don't "claim" it (just like Palmar did in that game)
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It all seems to indicate he's cc'ing mole then.
If he was actually scum (and sloosh real mole) that' be stupid as hell, so I'd be inclined to believe him.
##Unvote: Meapak_Zipph
##Vote: sloosh
Even if that's not the case (and MZ is real cop), the mole still counts for mafia's numbers, and sloosh isn't really helpful with his "confirmed town-mole" status, so it doesn't really matter
I'd like confirmation from MZ that he's cc'ing mole by the above way though
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On July 27 2012 04:35 syllogism wrote:
Gonzaw why aren't you voting sloosh?
Because it was possible he's a real cop and sloosh is the real mole.
I guess that's unlikely now though, since his claim does seem similar to Palmar's one in AC
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So I take it all those PMs sloosh posted were fake then?
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On July 27 2012 04:41 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 04:36 gonzaw wrote:
It all seems to indicate he's cc'ing mole then.
If he was actually scum (and sloosh real mole) that' be stupid as hell, so I'd be inclined to believe him.
##Unvote: Meapak_Zipph
##Vote: sloosh
Even if that's not the case (and MZ is real cop), the mole still counts for mafia's numbers, and sloosh isn't really helpful with his "confirmed town-mole" status, so it doesn't really matter
I'd like confirmation from MZ that he's cc'ing mole by the above way though scum. :D oh man. this game... now were lynching because of some strange claim - which if it is real - is completely worthless because it doesnt give us any information about slooshs mole status...,
???
What?
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Fuck yeah!
We have this game in the bag, just 3 scum lynches, then we lynch MZ in the end (he counts as mafia numbers), and we get an easy win.
On July 27 2012 09:23 syllogism wrote:I'm somewhat disappointed that he flipped executive as my other reads somewhat rely on him being minion. We are going to be adjusting reads based on every flip, but right now I'm somewhat confident that the remaining mafia are Gonzaw - executive? Q-bert-z - minion Meapak - CopKatina - executive? She is playing like someone with too much information. She doesn't seem to be reading the thread, she only has mafia reads and she seems less and less interested in the game the better town is doing. It doesn't seem possible for someone to have this accurate mafia reads and at the same time not have a clue about who is town. Her attitude towards foolishness on day 1 and 2 was suspicious, and I think foolishness told her at some point to just bus everyone. Look at her posts when she showed up today in the middle of the sloosh claim situation. She still wanted to lynch sloosh, so she probably didn't even bother reading and wanted to lynch her because she knew that sloosh was mafia. Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 03:37 Katina wrote:
Keep votes on gonzaw. It's not a good idea to start switching votes right now unless we want another mislynch. Sloosh needs to die and so does Meapak. There will be prlenty of time to talk about others like syllo and supersoft after we find out what gonzaw flips and night hits. For right now it's not a good idea to get all excited and start throwing votes everywhere. Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 03:41 syllogism wrote:
Katina are you even reading? Have you read foolishness' flip and the PMs sloosh posted? Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 03:38 Katina wrote:
sloosh you went from claiming to have shot Foolishness to claiming mole? Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 04:05 Katina wrote:
I did read. Just thought it was interesting. Really, interesting? Then she again disappeared, not caring at all about all the very interesting developments. She doesn't even bother moving her vote after all that despite "worrying" about nolynch. She is quite likely mafia. I can't really make sense of her play otherwise. Lynch order Gonzaw, Q-bert-z, Katina. We should follow this order at least until one of them doesn't flip red.
I'm actually in favor of this.
Even if I'm mislynched we'll still win the game, since scum have to kill like 14 townies or something to win, which seems impossible.
Of course I'd prefer lynching them first and getting me lynched last so we can win before I get lynched at all (I don't plan on getting misslynched just because like in Bang Bang).
I actually think it's something like this:
Executive: Katina
Minions: QBertz Zealos
Meh, I don't get why the fuck people think Zealos is town. Even completely ignoring the sandro gambit he doesn't seem town at all.
There are some suspicious people like austin around though, so maybe he could be town, but I haven't seen anybody argue why so I'm not really buying it.
The Mole bit from QBertz is basically a scum claim and I agree. There'd be no way he'd highlight it as town and guess correctly that scum had a mole.
Anyways haha this got me pumped, 2 town wins in a row is a whole new deal for me 
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Yes MZ could be from the Chairman of the Board branch or the other guy's branch.
But it's very easy to figure that out:
Hey Meapak, if you were to be a minion, which branch would you belong to? I mean, I know you are a cop, so this is just a hypothetical question, nothing else
I assume the mole still gets to know who he reports to, just as other minions.
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On July 27 2012 09:48 Probulous wrote:
No he did, but so did Super. LOL.
Why else would slOosh claim? He must have felt that BH did kill Fool and there were no town vigs because of Kurumi so it was a "risk less" play, but they got butt fucked by a bad ass Supersoft and a ninja VE.
sloosh is Chairman of the Board.
BH is minion who responds to Chairman of the Board.
If anything sloosh told BH himself to shoot Foolishness, he didn't have to "feel that BH did kill Foo' ", he knew that BH killed Foo', since it's likely sloosh sent him the order to do so (and claim later).
Once BH died, sloosh already knew the plan so he likely decided to follow it himself like some people said before.
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Okay, seems lots of people still think I'm scum (and most haven't even stated why) so I kind of guess what will happen
If you assume I'm town, then who do you think is scum?
Because I don't really plan on hearing "Zealos is town because you are scum" as defenses of him >_>
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On July 27 2012 10:38 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 10:36 gonzaw wrote:On July 27 2012 09:48 Probulous wrote:
No he did, but so did Super. LOL.
Why else would slOosh claim? He must have felt that BH did kill Fool and there were no town vigs because of Kurumi so it was a "risk less" play, but they got butt fucked by a bad ass Supersoft and a ninja VE. sloosh is Chairman of the Board. BH is minion who responds to Chairman of the Board. If anything sloosh told BH himself to shoot Foolishness, he didn't have to "feel that BH did kill Foo' ", he knew that BH killed Foo', since it's likely sloosh sent him the order to do so (and claim later). Once BH died, sloosh already knew the plan so he likely decided to follow it himself like some people said before. yeah, the reason for the one day delay vig shot is that it takes him a day to tell his minion to kill him.
Actually no.
Foo could have messaged sloosh on D1, sloosh could have messaged BH on D1 or even on N1, and BH could have vig-shot Foo' on N1 if he wanted.
But...I doubt they would have wanted to kill their CEO on N1, so that's probably the reason >_>
I also take it the 2nd message sloosh posted had some truth in it, since it stated that he should "claim something that accounts for not shooting Kurumi on N1", which again is likely the reason for the "delay vig" claim instead of regular vig.
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o_O what the...?
Okay, if I get this correctly, rastaban claims that last day cycle (Day 4), there were 2 messages sent and received by Chezinu, right?
So Chezinu received the 1st message first (from someone), then sent the 2nd one to Katina?
The 2nd message could have been sent by Chezinu, since he has that power.....but the 1st one had to be sent from mafia since there isn't any other similar messaging role out, which can only happen if Chezinu is minion since he received the message...
....wow
The "he figured out Katina was her executive" bit makes sense, although it's possible Chezinu thought Katina was her executive and was wrong. However I agree it's likely Katina is the executive herself, so this makes more sense.
On July 28 2012 02:46 austinmcc wrote:Had to pull this up, ended up being too true. A lynch on you turns into a scum lynch and the game mostly wrapping up, with only one unknown scum remaining, and you, I guess, being town. Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 10:31 gonzaw wrote:
I actually think it's something like this:
Executive: Katina
Minions: QBertz Zealos Which of your two minions would you replace with Chezinu?
Well shit I don't know :/
I guess it's possible Zealos is town (somehow) and derped that sandro message (somehow).
But if QBertz is scum, then he didn't send or receive any message when rastaban checked him, which he would have if he was scum.
I forgot about BM as well, who claimed Qbertz has no abilities, making him either town or executive. But if QBertz was executive surely he would have sent a message to one of his minions when rastaban checked him.
That Mole thing is incriminating though, but maybe it has something to do with his role (and he knew about the mole somehow?) or it was a coincidence?
Isn't QBertz getting replaced or something? Fuck
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EPT
