EPTBureaucracy Mafia! - Page 48
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On July 18 2012 06:37 sandroba wrote: Fuck new information comes up too fast. Did you play in the game you referred to bugs? I played in both LV and LVI. I was NoSmurfHere in LVI. In LVI Austin had posts like these: On July 01 2012 22:44 austinmcc wrote: I'm not comfortable with a Broodking lynch right at this point, although it looks like that wagon has passed somewhat. For one thing, from what I remember, he's been mislynched a few times (out of a small sample size).
I'll admit that I don't find "BKE often looks scummy as town" to be strong reasoning, but for D1 it's enough that I don't want lynch him. I also thought BKE had played in another game or two, but didn't see more in his profile. However, I'd love for him to clarify his first post, given all this discussion. Broodking, you say that you don't consider those with 4 or 5 games newbies. The rest of the players seem to disagree, and I know that I do (no more newbie games allowed =/= not a newbie in my mind). IF you accept a much more broad definition of noob, like the thread seems to want, would you alter your first post? Should people with something like 4-8 games be treated like the noobs in your post, or treated like more seasoned players? I'm alright with adding my vote to mK right now. The whole "role name" thing is actually what I thought Mattchew was referring to earlier when he said a previous poster looked super townie to him, and that was my dumb "don't think you should be trusting that" post. It's in VT pms, it's in the OP, if scum received the VT pm then they had it too, etc. Worried that mK's reaction is a blue who didn't read vs. scum who didn't read (those are the obvious options, so don't get on my junk about possibly revealing blues), but if so, he can defend himself if he ever returns to the thread. The absence in the face of votes doesn't look good to me from that standpoint. NoSmurf, initially I read you as one of the more sensible and townie folks in the thread. However, this caught my eye somewhat: Care to explain your train of thought? Over the course of 2 hours, you went from "probably town" to "completely fine with Mandalor lynch/scumread on Mandalor." Would like for you to articulate why you changed your read there. In this post he comments on the day 1 lynch (BKE) and correctly identifies him as town. My basis on d1 that game for identifying the strongest town players was those who agreed with my assessment that BKE was town. Austin was one of those players and he was shot like n2 because he had at least 3 correct reads and he rapidly established himself as town (though he was unlikely to be protted). He was one of the only players who suspected Acrofales and he supported me in my Katina push. I don't remember much from LV but based on a skim of his filter there I do think that marv is right about that, that he was concerned with MZ + Kita + Toad being scum. However I do strongly believe that Austin is a capable player and a capable scumhunter. In particular his question to Kurumi of "aren't you curious about what out-ed you?" is incredibly strange. He's treating Kurumi like scum, but instead of moving on and trying to find other scum he tries to get sandro to roleclaim. What difference does knowing sandro's role make in determining sandro's alignment? I mean, there are 9 scum in this game. It's phenomenally easy to scumhunt just in terms of numbers, yet Austin's sole concern has been the balance of sandro's claimed role. In LV I don't remember him frothing at the mouth because he thought kita + MZ + toad were scum together. That NSH post was me, I was looking at my past posts and forgot to log out. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On July 18 2012 06:45 Katina wrote: Gah! Blazinghand! It's like you know! My strategy is actually to insta-delurk SECONDS BEFORE getting voted. Much more town cred that way. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On July 18 2012 06:48 wherebugsgo wrote: I don't remember much from LV but based on a skim of his filter there I do think that marv is right about that, that he was concerned with MZ + Kita + Toad being scum. However I do strongly believe that Austin is a capable player and a capable scumhunter. In particular his question to Kurumi of "aren't you curious about what out-ed you?" is incredibly strange. He's treating Kurumi like scum, but instead of moving on and trying to find other scum he tries to get sandro to roleclaim. What difference does knowing sandro's role make in determining sandro's alignment? I mean, there are 9 scum in this game. It's phenomenally easy to scumhunt just in terms of numbers, yet Austin's sole concern has been the balance of sandro's claimed role. In LV I don't remember him frothing at the mouth because he thought kita + MZ + toad were scum together. That NSH post was me, I was looking at my past posts and forgot to log out. Yes I can't quite work out what he's doing here. sandroba: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336250&user=119148 that is austin's filter. roughly speaking towards the end of page 3 of his filter and then all the way through page 4 | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
MZ was shot and masoned by Toad on some night (or it might've been different nights, but he was shot + masoned) and kita was the medic who protected MZ. Kita was under a lot of lynch pressure on a later day and so claimed medic and said he protected MZ. There was no counterclaim and so essentially MZ and kita were confirmed. The question arose of whether MZ and kita could be faking together as scum and this was partially what austin was concerned with (though not nearly as fervently as he is here) On July 18 2012 06:47 sandroba wrote: Can someone please link me to the supposed austin conspiracy theory on LV? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=336250¤tpage=123#2456 look at that post (go to the filter) and then like the next 5-6 posts. Note that throughout that, in the background he's still considering other suspects. He's not solely concerned about his idea that kita + meapak + toad could be scum, and he's still considering other options. Here I don't see that, his sole concern all game has been your role. Now the comparison isn't 1 to 1 since the setups are different, but I suppose it's still useful. | ||
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Katina
United States454 Posts
On July 18 2012 06:47 HiroPro wrote: Katina, you've never mentioned anything about BH before. Why lynch him? I mention him briefly in one of my posts early on. I said I wanted to see more from him until I make decision. I was watching him closely because people were always talking about him. At the time I thought the cases on Palmar and Foolishness were stronger. When Syllo popped up I thought he was more suspicious as well. So I was merely attacking them until I was more confident in Blazinghand's alignment.I have never been against his lynch if I was I would have said something early on. Especially when he started getting votes. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On July 18 2012 06:48 wherebugsgo wrote: However I do strongly believe that Austin is a capable player and a capable scumhunter. In particular his question to Kurumi of "aren't you curious about what out-ed you?" is incredibly strange. He's treating Kurumi like scum, but instead of moving on and trying to find other scum he tries to get sandro to roleclaim. What difference does knowing sandro's role make in determining sandro's alignment? I mean, there are 9 scum in this game. It's phenomenally easy to scumhunt just in terms of numbers, yet Austin's sole concern has been the balance of sandro's claimed role. Yeah, I hate to be "that guy" who just agrees with an existing case, but right now, I'm that guy. Think about what Austin was up to. If we examine the motivations for such questioning, it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. As a townie, your thought isn't to question to setup or to ask about whether a strong town role makes sense in an 18-9 game. Your thoughts are based on scum-hunting, and A) you probably won't be an sandro's ass and B) assuming you are on sandro's ass, you'll be consistent about who you think kurumi is and you'll be on sandro's ass about his behavior, not the potential specifics of his role. especially given role=/= alignment. A townie wouldn't naturally have this train of thought, but scum would. ##unvote ##vote: Austinmcc I've gotta do some work and then get home. Katina, I don't suppose you'll be online in about 3 hours? I'll be able rip apart your case with spears of pure townie logic then. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Because for scum austin to boldly go against what pseudo confirmed town sandroba, he would have to have some payoff - why bother bringing so much attention to yourself? The way he focuses on sandroba's claim does look like paranoid conspiracy theorist - I cohosted LV and if memory serves he was making really elaborate (read totally wacky) speculations. Unless it was an order from a higher up (which is hard to swallow since it means someone else who knows more decided this plan of action was worth it), I'm seeing a paranoid town. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On July 18 2012 06:59 slOosh wrote: Still mulling over this austin business, because it doesn't make much sense from either alignment: Because for scum austin to boldly go against what pseudo confirmed town sandroba, he would have to have some payoff - why bother bringing so much attention to yourself? The way he focuses on sandroba's claim does look like paranoid conspiracy theorist - I cohosted LV and if memory serves he was making really elaborate (read totally wacky) speculations. Unless it was an order from a higher up (which is hard to swallow since it means someone else who knows more decided this plan of action was worth it), I'm seeing a paranoid town. This post, this post, this post. austin has never rolled scum yet and yet he's supposed to be making this sort of play as his first time? I don't see or understand it | ||
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Katina
United States454 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On July 18 2012 07:00 marvellosity wrote: This post, this post, this post. austin has never rolled scum yet and yet he's supposed to be making this sort of play as his first time? I don't see or understand it So what? Your first scum game was LV, wasn't it? Acrofales's first game ever was GoT and he basically crushed town that game. My first scum game was MLP and I didn't have a hard time playing mafia. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On July 18 2012 06:59 slOosh wrote: Still mulling over this austin business, because it doesn't make much sense from either alignment: Because for scum austin to boldly go against what pseudo confirmed town sandroba, he would have to have some payoff - why bother bringing so much attention to yourself? The way he focuses on sandroba's claim does look like paranoid conspiracy theorist - I cohosted LV and if memory serves he was making really elaborate (read totally wacky) speculations. Unless it was an order from a higher up (which is hard to swallow since it means someone else who knows more decided this plan of action was worth it), I'm seeing a paranoid town. Well I used to think this way too till S&B did pretty much exactly this as scum in SS13. Sometimes you get frustrated at something as scum and just don't think much about the repercussions of what you are posting. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On July 18 2012 07:02 wherebugsgo wrote: So what? Your first scum game was LV, wasn't it? Acrofales's first game ever was GoT and he basically crushed town that game. My first scum game was MLP and I didn't have a hard time playing mafia. it was LIV, quickly followed by LV I don't understand your point. It's what slOosh says there - what's the payoff for going after sandroba and causing THIS discussion we're having now? Did austin really think he was going to get sandroba to claim to him and help scum or something? I don't think so. Your entire post (look! players who are good at scum without practice!) is effectively disproven by the fact that austin is close to getting lynched now for making a fucking dumbass play. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On July 18 2012 07:05 marvellosity wrote: Your entire post (look! players who are good at scum without practice!) is effectively disproven by the fact that austin is close to getting lynched now for making a fucking dumbass play. This is terrible logic if you think about it for a moment. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On July 18 2012 07:09 syllogism wrote: If this was a normal setup his play would feel too audacious, but in this setup I'm not so sure as there is a lot of mafia and they are, especially at this stage, lone wolves and probably feel more free to push blatantly pro-mafia agenda. Moreover, this isn't the only problem I have with his play so far as he still hasn't posted anything that I would consider mafia hunting or given opinions on anyone at all, even though he promised some thoughts quite a while ago. ok this post is good because i can break it down into two parts 1) i just don't think austin would be blatant like you say there 2) you are absolutely correct that he hasn't scumhunted and that's why i'm torn on the lynch | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 18 2012 07:05 marvellosity wrote: it was LIV, quickly followed by LV I don't understand your point. It's what slOosh says there - what's the payoff for going after sandroba and causing THIS discussion we're having now? Did austin really think he was going to get sandroba to claim to him and help scum or something? I don't think so. Your entire post (look! players who are good at scum without practice!) is effectively disproven by the fact that austin is close to getting lynched now for making a fucking dumbass play. so your argument is that if it's his first scum game, he won't be doing a very good play. Clearly you just argued against your own point, did you not? Like you need a valid reason to actually consider him town. This is not a very good reason. The whole "but this play doesn't have scum benefits" doesn't really fly when your argument for him being town revolves around him not playing optimally. If he's not playing optimally then ofc it won't have clear scum benefits. However all of that is kind of moot when it DOES have scum benefits. Outting sandro's role under the guise of a curious townie gives mafia info that they otherwise would not have. Easiest way to do that is to threaten to waste your vote until sandro claims, and then change it. A worse player than sandro may have just claimed and this whole situation would've disappeared long ago. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On July 18 2012 07:05 marvellosity wrote: it was LIV, quickly followed by LV I don't understand your point. It's what slOosh says there - what's the payoff for going after sandroba and causing THIS discussion we're having now? Did austin really think he was going to get sandroba to claim to him and help scum or something? I don't think so. Your entire post (look! players who are good at scum without practice!) is effectively disproven by the fact that austin is close to getting lynched now for making a fucking dumbass play. As town or scum he must have thought I could have claimed otherwise there is no point even posting that. Scum does make dumbass plays, that's a privilege of townies. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
i read as scum the fact that he does jack shit all else. | ||
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