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On July 17 2012 16:17 Foolishness wrote:
Yes I'm a bit bitter at the moment. He prodded two people so far and hasn't followed up anywhere. Instead he's been spending his time responding to my posts (not an issue) and downplaying all of Katina's posts (is an issue). The case is built upon the similarity to Responsibility Mafia, where he played a passive game and put jibber jabber in most of his posts. The question asking is more pronounced and noticable when he's mafia.
Why is this an issue and is this actually true? It's not; I've made maybe one post that could be characterized as that, the others were downplaying your posts and trying to find out what exactly she liked about them. Even if that was a true, what relevance that has to do with my alignment? Your do not appear to be willing to re-evaluate anything based on the input you are getting and you keep distorting to build your "cases", which makes you not only wrong, but likely maliciously wrong.
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On July 17 2012 13:51 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 13:33 Mattchew wrote:On July 17 2012 13:29 rastaban wrote:
Sylo also looks like a good target, and while his actions are Scummy I recommend the Ace method, when two people both look like scum start by lynching the player you have more content on. We can give Sylo till tomorrow to improve if need be, and lynch this scum BH he has so much content and it all points one way How are his actions scummy? His stance and comments on Probulous are a red flag for me, combine that with Foolishnes and WBG's arguments and I think he starts looking like a great secondary candidate. It isn't conclusive, thats why I would like to move him to spot #2 and hopefully pull some proponents from his lynch onto BH who is scummier and give Sylo a day to see if he will shape up.
I too want you to elaborate on this. Do you disagree with what I said about probulous? If so, why? What stance?
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What do you mean I fail to do something? Not only I had done more than the vast majority of players before "being called out", I've done things since that. In case it's not clear, I'm saying that foolishness isn't just wrong, but wrong in manner that is likely malicious; i.e. he is mafia. It is not "whining" at all. It's probably not optimal to lynch him today as I'm not entirely confident in my read as I may be somewhat biased due to knowing my alignment.
Look at what foolishness has done so far besides tunnelling me based on a very weak case. He keeps ignoring other subjects of interest until he is poked about them and the few reads he has shared besides me are even worse supported. He initially thought palmar was town for suggesting random lynch and when presented evidence that disproved that, he didn't really re-evaluate, but justified his "town read" by claiming palmar's average post length is how you determine whether he is town or mafia.
In liar game Foolishness correctly identified palmar as mafia, but not even once used that as even supporting evidence for his read in that game. Furthermore, look at what he says here
The issue is that it's still too early to tell with Palmar, but as I said I think he's town. I hadn't realized that he did that as mafia and as town when I said that.
If you want something more concrete, when Palmar is mafia his average post length is longer than when he's town. I used iGrok's and BC's game as comparison (even though Palmar was 3rd party in BC's game he was effectively town). BC's game he one liners his way to victory with the occasional two paragraph post. In iGrok's game the two paragraph post comes out every few posts or so. What's he done so far this game? One liners.
If you want something even more concrete, wait until like day 3. If his filter is 3 pages, then he's scum, if it's greater than 6 pages he's town. That's the failsafe "is Palmar mafia?" proof.
It doesn't even make sense; he says palmar posts are longer when he is mafia but then says as town his filter will be longer. I suppose the implication here is that town palmar posts are shorter but he is spammier, but palmar hasn't posted much yet in this game. Futhermore, why is he ignoring the content of palmar's posts and instead focuses on this laughable palmar "scum tell", which of course won't even be accurate in this game after he publicly announces that. He basically wants to give palmar a pass until day 3 and then use this laughable method to determine his alignment. The pattern in foolishness posting so far in this game is that his reasoning has been uncharacteristically weak.
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She didn't really "totally reverse it" since she mentions in the very same post that she isn't sure about foolishness. I don't see anything in her filter particularly suspicious and don't think she is a good target today. I would like to hear her thoughts on foolishness though as she promised to say something about him.
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On July 17 2012 22:18 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 18:43 syllogism wrote:On July 17 2012 18:41 supersoft wrote:
the nukes are modconfirmed. both kurumis and rols nukes were followed up by a modpost saying that they will go down at the end of the day. if this turns out to be trolling by the hosts we can still lynch kurumi tomorrow right? That doesn't confirm they are actually real though, because in some setups with nukes anyone can "launch" a nuke but only real ones are actually lethal. It seems like an amazing coincidence for the person kurumi nuked to also have nukes. Nuke me. Why are you scared of trying it out?
You are right, there is no reason not to test this theory
##nuke Kurumi
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Palmar do you seriously think I'm mafia?
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Well you are bad at mafia then
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On July 17 2012 23:26 Palmar wrote:Well prove you're not. I admit, there is not much to do other than lynch kurumi at the moment, and I also know that if I'm right you've been pushed into a very uncomfortable position due to sandroba's status atm. Any judgements you make will be reviewed by sandroba who is almost guaranteed to be town. But between lynching kurumi, and preferably killing MZ too, you have some time if you're town. What do you think of the rest of my list. I mean, I just mentioned that surviving and focusing on oneself would be a mafia characteristic this game, and you literally ignored what... 7-8? accusations I had to talk about yourself.
What, you are talking about your dumb list? How is ignoring your dumb list in any way relevant, I'm much more interested in the fact you claim to genuinely believe that I'm mafia and it's rare for you to be this wrong about my alignment. That is a more useful indicator of your alignment to me than a random list of people who you suspect. You didn't even provide any rationale for any of your reads so I'm having a tough time believing you think ignoring them is meaningful.
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I'll think about it, but right now it's hard for me not to concentrate on the people who cased me based on extremely poor reasons and the ones who sheeped those bad reasons without even bothering to state what specifically they liked about the case. Just lynching foolishness for saying something as ridiculous as this is tempting, I think it's quite likely that he is mafia
If you want something even more concrete, wait until like day 3. If his filter is 3 pages, then he's scum, if it's greater than 6 pages he's town. That's the failsafe "is Palmar mafia?" proof.
Probulous also should know better, but I could just expect too much from him. I don't think he would, as town, want to lynch me day 1 even if he found me suspicious.
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On July 18 2012 03:32 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 03:27 Mattchew wrote:On July 18 2012 03:17 supersoft wrote:On July 18 2012 03:10 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Glad people are paying attention and voting BH. Posts like this though are a problem. The last thing we want is to give scum more information on sandro's role. On July 18 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote:
Voting sandroba until he reveals his power. Don't waste your vote like that, try and do something productive. is this poor attempt to look useful by austin a scumtell or is he just useless all the time? he's not useless at all what do you think of MZ I disagree Matt. I just read through his filter in LVI as town. He actually talks about his reads and who he wants to lynch when he's town. In this game, the only thing related to actual play (and not setup) he ever said was that matt's case on Katina and Katina's case on Palmar looked wrong. I've asked him twice now for thoughts both on BH/MZ and on who his scum reads might be and he hasn't bothered to say anything. He's parked his vote on sandroba for no other reason than that he wants to know what his role is. Looks like scum to me.
I, too, thought austinmcc post regarding mattchew's case against katina and looked somewhat towny, but you are right, he was much more useful in LVI, even early on. In this game he hasn't given posted anything that could be characterized as scum hunting or even given opinions on any of the likely lynch candidates. He talks about wanting to contribute and said he would look into me/blazinghand, but then focused on sandroba's role instead and still hasn't given his opinion on anything actually relevant.
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On July 18 2012 04:28 supersoft wrote:
we are not lynching veterans today. Wait at least for night 1 and see who's left by then.
That doesn't work very well in this format given how the (1) mafia night kill is determined. I'm starting to feel confident about the evidence against foolishness; I just don't see town foolishness saying some of the things he has been saying in this game. In addition, this post from him seems quite defensive
On July 17 2012 07:10 Foolishness wrote:Well I was going to say something about Kurumi, but was focusing on syllogism because I'm sure he's mafia more so than Kurumi. At least at the time I did. ##Unvote: syllogism
##Vote: KurumiShow nested quote +On July 17 2012 06:52 Kurumi wrote:
I will say it again:
If I were mafia, when I got this message there should be someone crumbing those words earlier. I was the first person to do that. Why would a Director/CEO NOT do that? Meh. Pretty sure the point is that you had no reason to do so if you are town. But hey I haven't really read the past 5 pages cause it's so spammy.
This is after he was called out by sandroba for ignoring situation kurumi
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On July 17 2012 23:26 Palmar wrote:Well prove you're not. I admit, there is not much to do other than lynch kurumi at the moment, and I also know that if I'm right you've been pushed into a very uncomfortable position due to sandroba's status atm. Any judgements you make will be reviewed by sandroba who is almost guaranteed to be town. But between lynching kurumi, and preferably killing MZ too, you have some time if you're town. What do you think of the rest of my list. I mean, I just mentioned that surviving and focusing on oneself would be a mafia characteristic this game, and you literally ignored what... 7-8? accusations I had to talk about yourself.
Hey Palmar if you are town, wouldn't you also be "reviewing" any judgements I make in this scenario of yours? By the way you still haven't told me why you think I'm mafia, which is quite suspicious given that you wouldn't push to lynch me lightly on day 1.
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It's exactly the kind of role I would expect to be in this setup. You know basically nothing about the setup other than the fact the fact town:mafia ratio is extremely abnormal and the immediate conclusion you draw is that this role is too powerful to be town? Why is your focus on the fact that mafia has limited communication instead of there being one mafia for every 2 townies? What exactly would mafia sandroba's motivation here be? Do you think he is CEO or how exactly do you think he communicated with kurumi?
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On July 18 2012 04:52 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 04:48 syllogism wrote:
It's exactly the kind of role I would expect to be in this setup. You know basically nothing about the setup other than the fact the fact town:mafia ratio is extremely abnormal and the immediate conclusion you draw is that this role is too powerful to be town? Why is your focus on the fact that mafia has limited communication instead of there being one mafia for every 2 townies? What exactly would mafia sandroba's motivation here be? Do you think he is CEO or how exactly do you think he communicated with kurumi? If he actually communicated with kurumi, then he's either a mafia higher-up or some sort of messaging power DOES exist. But he won't tell us exactly what, despite having an incredibly powerful role and thinking he's going to die. Why, as town, if you've got such a powerful role (and are apparently known for good scumhunting) and think you will die, would you not share that information with town? If kurumi flips red tonight, we don't actually know if he communicated or not. Even if you think that role is in the game and isn't game-breaking, do you think that sandroba would out himself, as that role, on D1, with a single red check? Does that make sense?
Yes it does. Even if he pushes and successfully gets kurumi lynched without outing his power, he would be a very likely mafia target n1. If he waits, he might still die and the information is lost. His role is powerful, but requires skill to use and is hardly comparable to a cop. Assuming the role exists in this setup, we can infer any message mafia receives will be anonymous in the sense that they aren't even told if it's from another mafia role. As such, even if he happens to correctly target mafia, the person who receives the message can see through the trap. Again, what is the mafia sandroba motivation here?
I think your attitude towards the role is reminiscent to my attitude towards some (actual) town roles in death factory 2, where I was mafia.
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Why would you actually have this power if you're mafia? I'm not claiming you have this power and are mafia, I'm claiming you're mafia and have made it up.
You aren't even attempting to fit your speculation to facts. If he and kurumi are both mafia, how did they both know that if they didn't communicate? Why would kurumi go along with it? If you are a townie who is just confused by the role, why do you clearly make no attempts at actually considering the facts?
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If this was a normal setup his play would feel too audacious, but in this setup I'm not so sure as there is a lot of mafia and they are, especially at this stage, lone wolves and probably feel more free to push blatantly pro-mafia agenda. Moreover, this isn't the only problem I have with his play so far as he still hasn't posted anything that I would consider mafia hunting or given opinions on anyone at all, even though he promised some thoughts quite a while ago.
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I'm not so sure about BH right now and I don't see how austin's play makes sense from a town point of view. It's not just the fact the doubt the role claim as that is fine, but the way he did it seems to be indicative of a mafia mindset. I don't think his theory in the other game is quite like this and the context (lack of anything else) isn't the same. I would be fine with layabout as well given that he clearly doesn't care about the game.
I still think foolishness is likely mafia, but even so lynching one of the above is safer day 1 play.
##unvote kurumi
##vote austinmcc
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EBWOP: the fact that he doubted the role claim
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On July 18 2012 09:33 Palmar wrote:
bugs is not scum katina, you're insane.
She seems mafia to me. What purpose does that post of hers serve? Until now she hasn't even mentioned any of the people on that vote list and now suddenly she thinks there's 4-5 mafia on it.
Anyway, I agree with what sandroba said about gonzaw and to a lesser extent what probulous said, so I'm willing to switch to gonzaw. I'll be around for less than hour.
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Another game with RoL actively playing against his win con, disgusting
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EPT
