EPTBureaucracy Mafia! - Page 14
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On July 25 2012 14:48 Mattchew wrote: how could they without being rash and scummy. just look at kurumi Hmm good point. I guess as long as we keep killing scum it makes it harder for them to explain it if they use their nuke. Double win. I just want to point out that we have killed four scum since the last townie died. This feels good  | ||
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On July 25 2012 14:51 VisceraEyes wrote: Please be MZ. Please be MZ. Everyone votes on Probulous. Do it immediately.  Like seriously what is this shit? | ||
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On July 25 2012 14:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Wait what? Oh I'm sorry, that flip pretty much PROVES that the power roles are mirrored. It DIRECTLY implicates you and Chezinu as scum. DIRECTLY sir. I don't care that you just lynched layabout, you could have had no idea that he'd flip scum. YOU ARE THE SCUM KINGMAKER PROBULOUS!!! Well you're wrong. That is all I can say. You are throwing out my entire game where I have sucesfully pushed lynch after lynch of scum AND I PLAYED YOUR STUPID GAME SUCESSFULLY simply because you believe that the setup requires a scum kingmaker. I ask you this VE, if you somehow manage to convince the jubjubs to lynch me and I flip town, what is proven? That your theory is dumb, illogical and downright stupid, or that you are scum? | ||
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No I would not be willing to lynch Chez today. I am concerned that he promised to post more clearly as well as his reads but he has yet to do either. Again your entire case against him boils down to him trolling (he does this as both alignments) and his mirror role which clearly I believe has nothing to do with his alignment. You can try and bully town to believe your fairy tale bullshit but I am not entering the store. | ||
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On July 25 2012 15:18 Mattchew wrote: ##vote Chezinu if we are going to test this theory on someone, it might as well be the least useful of those we are trying to test it on (and the one with a direct town-flipped counterpart) This is downright stupid. Think about it, we have two confirmed mirror roles. What does a third do? If you think Chez is scum because of his actions, then post a case, but lynching him because we want to test the mirror role thing is scummy as all hell. It has been "tested" and twice it has been found to be true. So if you accept that it is true that every role has a mirror than you can push Chez based on your belief but not to "test" it. | ||
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What exactly does another flip tell us that the previous ones haven't? It's a really bad reason to lynch someone. @Meapak Why did Zealos leave out the first line from sandroba's PM? I just don't understand how his reaction to sandroba makes him scum. Either he deliberately chose to remove that line and not respond to sandroba in thread, or he is dumb and wasn't reading. Wait a second, maybe he expected Sandroba to die that night alleviating him of the need to post the PM? But that doesn't explain why he left out the first line. I don't get it, can someone explain to me? | ||
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Again, if you vote Chez for his playstyle then you will lynch him as town as much as scum. Maybe you are happy with that. Contrary to what you may think Chez has been awesome this game. Take a look at his reads. I don't want to lynch someone who has been right so often. | ||
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On July 25 2012 15:44 Mattchew wrote: no one else has had their vote stolen. So BM's role hasn't been mirror'd. But where would it have been useful? Day was a no-lynch without the role and the other lynches have been almost unanimous. What is the point in revealing the role when it wouldn't make a difference to the outcome. It would be a decent play to wait until there are a few people left and bust it out then to secure a misslynch. | ||
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On July 25 2012 15:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: wait probulous are you saying that you think the mirror theory is correct? No. I was simply responding to Matt who does. It is possible that it is correct. If Chez and Sandroba are the mirrors of the Chairman of the Board amd Marketing, then we have space for the power roles. It would mean a scum VE which would pain me severely. I have liked his play this game and I would feel real shitty to get played like that. There are some questions that would need to be answered but his actions could be explained by a mafia viewpoint. He shot BH because he was pushing BH from early and didn't want to out himself. BH was going to die so why not take the cred. He gave me the lynch because he has no more non-scummy buddies to give it too. He was hoping I misslynched hence his attempts to discredit me beforehand. His whole reason for giving me the lynch was to "test" me and when I pass I am suddenly scum? He needs to get me lynched but I have played pretty well this game so he needs to find another way. So he uses the mirror thing to get the jump on me and try and convince people that I am scum based on roles. His attempts to discredit Chez makes sense as well because Chez has had good reads all game. What I don't understand is why he would offer himself as a 1:1 trade. Surely when I flip he will flip next, so why bother? | ||
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From phone | ||
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Just skimmed but I am happy to vote ## Gonzaw | ||
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On July 26 2012 06:35 gonzaw wrote: I think someone asked why would scum Zealos not out the "incriminate" part from sandro's message. ...well, for one I'd ask myself why scum Zealos wouldn't out the whole message in the first place, since he knew sandro made a similar trick with Kurumi and even said in the thread that he'd PM someone a message he wanted to out. But well, maybe he was indeed a minion who was never messaged before. Anyways, the point is that if he's town, and was indeed dumb enough to keep the message for some reason, he'd have no reason to out the whole message, even the "incriminating" part. If he was town he'd post it all, but he didn't. It makes perfect sense as "outed" scum at that point. He leaves out the incriminating part of the message so people don't think it was an "obvious scum message", and hopes sandro doesn't read it. Sandro already knew the message he sent him, so if he saw a thing similar to it that Zealos posted he'd know it was the message he sent, but it was possible he didn't strictly read the whole message trying to find inconsistencies (since he knew that message was his, he already knew the content). I think Zealos was counting on that: sandro not reading the whole message Zealos posted and not outing the "incriminating" part. Because the alternative, that Zealos is town and deliberately cut out that part and never mentioned it again, is EXTREMELY hard to believe, specially with Zealos' behaviour this whole game (i.e he doesn't seem to care about it). At least you tried to address my concerns. Essentially you are saying that when he realised he was caught he thought that leaving out the first line and hoping Sandro would not read it, would allow people to question whether the PM sounded like a scum PM... So he expected people to read the message but not Sandro, eventhough people were going to discuss the contents of the message? It's dumb, like completely stupid. But even if we accept your premise, why would he do that only as scum. Bare in mind he had been caught not posting the PM. Everyone was already baying for his blood, a smarter player would realise that being upfront with everything is a better move but clearly Zealos wasn't thinking straight. I could see a dumb town Zealos trying to make himself look good by leaving out that first line in exactly the same way a dumb scum Zealos would. Until there is a reasonable explanation for why he would do that only as scum and get away with it I have no reason to use the PM thing to lynch him. Remember Kurmui flipped town getting caught in a very similar manner. His absence is really annoying though. Here I am out on a limb for him and he doesn't bother to post anything. | ||
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I think we have two mafia here. The similarity of this lynch to the no lynch is pretty striking. Aside from Gonzaw being involved in both we have the game evenly split. If Gonzaw flips scum then this theory gains strength. Gonzaw's straight up defense of Palmar for no reason is very similar to layabout. It was trying to destroy a strong case for no reason. His insistence of lynching Zealos without seriously considering Meapak is pretty damning. Here is his stance on MZ On July 17 2012 06:22 gonzaw wrote: Don't know what's up with Kurumi/BH since I didn't read, but MZ's initial posts I skimmed from the first pages and so seemed too passive indeed, although I don't know if he'd be that "obvious" as scum (I remember Liar Game where he started acting anti-town and scummy all of a sudden at one point, like in D2 or D3 so he could easily do the same here). On July 18 2012 08:31 gonzaw wrote: I don't see MZ being scum after skimming his filter. His initial read is that MZ is town, or rather not scum (this is no not a town Gonzaw thing to do). He says that MZ is passive but gives himself and excuse in the same sentence. There is no need to justify your read that early with such contortions, guilty mindset regarding MZ. Yes it was early and he probably didn't know if MZ was his scum buddy but that explains his reticence in taking a stand. But then suddenly On July 25 2012 07:29 gonzaw wrote: Haven't read MZ by now, nor checked austin's recent posts, but by what I've seen it's likely they are both scum (I don't remember MZ posting at all since D2 :/ ). Despite not reading his filter he is sure enough that MZ hadn't posted enoug, so he must be scum. A complete 180 based on non-evidence. Basically a hidden sheep position. On July 25 2012 11:58 gonzaw wrote: About MZ: I don't see nothing inherently scummy with his D1 play actually. He seems aggressive and involved in discussions. But damn he stopped playing after that. Like 2 and a half pages of his filter come from D1, but only 1 and a half come from N1 onwards, and he doesn't post anything really interesting there. The only scumhunting I've seen from him is calling rastaban out, and accuse Zealos/Kurumi/BH/Foolishness with little reasons; after that he just seems to argue with people and reiterate things over and over and not contribute with nothing else. Yeah I wouldn't mind him dying. I'm not very confident in him being scum though, but I was wrong before and I trust that all of VE/Prob/syllo/etc are not idiots and see him as scum so he may as well be. Now he is back to scum but look, again he gives himself an out. He is saying that MZ is scum but goes to extreme lengths to distance himself from his position. He downplays his confidence and then uses the rest of us as justification for his position. On July 25 2012 12:00 gonzaw wrote: MZ, what do you think of Katina, austin and other people discussed by now? Yes, you've said "lynch Zealos" ever since N1, we already know you think he's scum.....so? What else? You can't think you complaining about people are considered contributions. Plus if you are really town and you know you'll likely get killed by Prob/lynch you should post all your reads and try to contribute as fast as you can to make sure people know what you think once you die and are "confirmed town". This is one of only a few times that Gonzaw ever talks directly to MZ and look at how soft it is. He supposedly thinks MZ is scum but he asks questions in a completely passive manner. He is almost pleading here. On July 26 2012 05:21 gonzaw wrote: I don't agree with this "either gonzaw or MZ" dichotomy at all either. I wouldn't mind MZ dying but he's not my top suspect. Does someone think Zealos/Katina/austin is town? Do some of you really think MZ is more likely scum than one of them? If so then please explain His final mention of MZ where he says he is happy to lynch MZ. If you take the entirety of Gozaw's push against MZ it comes down to sheeping others whilst heaping doubt on the case. He nevers defends MZ, he never corrects perceptions or tries to find an answer. He simply blissfully follows which is so contra town Gonzaw that he must be mafia. Finally, I pushed him really hard Day 1 for his passivity and gentle play. He knows we are watching that so he has been aggressive in defending himself. He gets angry and shouts and swears and shows off his agressive side but it is never in finding scum. It is always defending himself. This actually reminds me of our first game together Gonz when you went apeshit at me for suggesting you were mafia. Turns out you were but I fell for your shenanigans and you won the game. Not this time my friend. ##Vote Gonzaw | ||
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Because you have never mentioned your stance on Gonzaw. You called him scum on Day 1 based on my case but since then he has disapeared from your reads but when time comes to lynch him suddenly Meapak is the scum not Gonzaw. Sure you might think MZ a better lynch but completely ignoring Gonzaw (as far as we can tell) is pretty damning. | ||
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On July 26 2012 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Probulous good news! I've figured out how we can both be town! ^^. ROFL, you're such an ass  | ||
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On July 26 2012 09:56 VisceraEyes wrote: Though for the record, I still didn't like you "assuming" what answers I wanted or what actions I wanted you to take. I would have rather you flipped MZ or Zeal...but I'm not gonna split hairs anymore. A scum flip is a scum flip. If we go 5 for 5 I'm throwing us a little party. I don't even care if scum are helping us kill each other off at this point - 4 in a row goes beyond "some scum ploy" and ventures into "we're doing something right". Well I asked what you wanted and you threw it back in my face so I had to assume. | ||
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You know what I am going to give this a go anyway Could the lawyer pardon a kingmaker lynch? | ||
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