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On July 25 2012 09:38 marvellosity wrote: Don't tell me you didn't know something was coming Probe, he's been needling you for a little while now Yeah but it is VE. I mean, like I said, I like his scepticism. No reason to completely trust anyone. Anyway, I am happy to be responsible for the lynch tomorrow. | ||
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On July 25 2012 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Considering I've been considering the probability of mirrored scum to town Power-roles, then yeah...I was pretty much expecting a second kingmaker. That's a hella powerful scum role. It removes town only real power. I highly doubt that scum minions have no idea who their managment or brethren are so giving them a kingmaker role screws over town majorly. It was partly why I was so confident in proving my alignment, I mean a scum kingmaker is pretty ridiculous. | ||
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I give you Kurumi and RoL as counter evidence. Yes not exactly the same role but certainly very similar and no similar role for scum. | ||
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Tomorrow, MZ dies. | ||
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On July 25 2012 09:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: What I am concerned about is someone pulling a lone ranger act and shooting me without warning. I won't do that. Right now I am convinced but I will obviously go back an recheck my analysis. I am not stupid. | ||
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 Speaking of when is deadline? I thought it was an hour ago  | ||
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BTW thanks VE! I am now officially a king. | ||
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I know I said I wouldn't argue but I really cannot understand your logic and this is hella important.
So either you don't believe there are mirror roles in which case you have been lying and discrediting me for no reason, or you believe there are mirror roles and therefore I am scum. If that is the case then you gave scum a free day vig. Alternatively you don't know my alignment and are planning on using my choice to judge me. This seems the most reasonable (and is what you said) but then why suggest I am scum? You could have just given me the role and let me do my business. Then you judge me just the same, this suggestion that I am mafia makes your choice illogical. I chose you because you were my strongest town read and I agreed with your reads. It's that simple. The fruit was born when you lynched Blazinghand. To be honest I was expecting you to choose Foolishness but he died before you could. It doesn't matter though. The whole point of the role is that you trust the person with a lynch. But you go out of your way to make it clear you don't trust me. Why? | ||
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Curve ball accepted. I assume you want me to pick someone at least a little controversial, otherwise how do you get a read on me right? | ||
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## lynch layabout Do you want reasons or are you just happy to let me take the responsibility for his flip? | ||
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Honestly, rereading MZ's filter, it looks better than I thought it did. He pushed BH hard until he was lynched and has been generally active. His case against rastaban is the worst part of his filter though, it is almost like he decided to follow my advice from Day 1 and just tunnel someone. His latest stuff is better so hopefully he will improve. Zealos was another option but I have a problem with outright lynching him. Why would he remove the first line from the sandroba PM? He knew sandroba had the original so he knew he would be called out on it. It is a dumb move which reflects the rest of his game. Does that make him scum? I will need convincing. | ||
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On July 25 2012 13:04 VisceraEyes wrote: No, we don't do things for reasons here Prob. *sigh* I'm happy to let you take responsibility for your actions. If you choose to not give reasoning that's your deal. I think layabout was a decent choice, though there are others I'd have chosen first. Hey you put me in thsi position. Think about it, if I wrote up a huge post explaining my reasons scum would use it to say I am setting up excuses for when he flips town. He is dying anyway, so what use does the post provide? It just allows scum to cast doubt on me. | ||
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The post you quote is focused on Palmar, not MZ. Yes, I didn't look over MZ last night. We have a whole day and I certainly didn't expect to die. I was sure that Syllo or Supersoft were next. The reason I didn't just straight up pull the trigger is because I CAN BE WRONG! Geez, I went back and reread and took my time and now that makes me scum? I don't have any reads that are 100% like yesterday. Having a day vig is a big responsibility so I wanted to be sure. Tell me this VE, if I had lynched MZ or Zealos, could you not point out that most of town wanted that? It is an easy decision with no real ramifications because I could legitiamtely blame everyone else as well. You gave me this to check my alignment, well I gave you something to think about. You're being illogical because I am not behaving how you expect me too. Instead of jumping to conclusions, take a break and think clearly. I never gave reasons for lynching laya, I gave reasons for not lynching MZ or Zealos because that is what you expected me to do. You expected a MZ or Zealos lynch so I explained why I chose not to lynch them. I will write up my case now because clearly that is what you want. | ||
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On July 17 2012 10:04 wherebugsgo wrote: Shit that makes layabout scummy: Read his filter first, it's not long at all. Keep that in mind for a second. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=233798 He does nothing but shed doubt on sandro's claim. He instantly disbelieves it without considering other evidence. He knows the caliber of sandro's town play yet he doesn't even acknowledge the possibility that sandro could be town. In addition he's stayed toward the back of the discussion, as he does when he is scum. When he is town he is out in front if he thinks people are being stupid. He will kick and scream and call people retarded if they're doing something he disagrees with. Clearly he disagrees with us sheeping sandro on his catch of Kurumi (otherwise why else would he shed doubt on it?) but notice that he actually doesn't do anything to stop the wagon. i.e. his doubt is unfounded and he wants to undermine sandro without taking heat for the action itself. Scum tactic. Which I expanded upon here On July 17 2012 15:13 Probulous wrote: Thanks for that Gonzaw. About layabout Here is the entirety of layabouts filter Firstly, he assumes Sandro can send more than one message per day, or alternatively that he will live overnight. Given he has outed a scum that is highly unlikely. We all know Sandro is a deadly when on form so I would be surprised if he lives till tomorrow (he even stated as much). More damning though is that layabout didn't even bother to follow up on his question. I can understand forgetting a question here and there (it's a busy thread) but his only contribution this whole game has been to question the validity of Sandro's claim. It serves no purpose, especially that Kurumi has confirmed Sandro's claim. In addition, bugs correctly pointed out that layabout is very vocal when he is town. I played with him in Werewolves and he was killed early because he was way too calm and clear. He lurked a lot in my other game with him when we were both mafia (Wiggles Mini II). There isn't much to go on but what is there is pretty bad. Note that his lurking is indicative of his alignment. He is not normally a lurker unless he rolls scum. This post has already been pointed out by Syllo but it is worth rementioning On July 23 2012 09:32 layabout wrote: If we leave the Palmar defense for now, why post this? At this point Foolishness had flipped so his read can be discounted as invalid. We had presented evidence against Palmar to which he disagreed but there is obviously doubt about Foolishness' alignment. The fact that laya casts doubt on Syllo based on two scum's cases is atrocious. He has no reason to believe they have more knowledge about Syllo than we do, and more importantly that they would be genuine in their read given they are scum. Like who seriously puts stock into flipped mafia's cases, especially after night 1? It just serves to cast doubt on Syllo for no reason. I still think we should lynch zealos. >>CLICK<< ##vote zealos I think it's worth bearing in mind that both Palmar and Foolishness expressed the opinion that syllogism is mafia and continued to do so. A large part of why syllogism was not a lynch candidate early on was that the players that know him well can easily tell his alignment after a few days. Why are people voting for Palmar? I haven't seen anything concrete. Anyway he come out hard defending Palmar here. Saying there is no evidence. He goes back and forth with Syllo continuously stating that there is no case against Palmar. When I point out how stupid this is he responds with this On July 23 2012 10:13 layabout wrote: This is the first day that there has been time and reason to debate the lynch target. There are many reasons to lynch zealos and we should. Where are these cases against Palmar that you speak of? All i see is aggressive pushing and no reasoning and it stinks. I shake my head and realise he won't read the thread so I post some stuff. Twice. On July 23 2012 10:35 Probulous wrote: He obviously believes he is an amazing analyst so where is his analysis, let's take a look. In response to this So wrong on both accounts here. What about this Probably wrong as well. So next is MZ who could be scum, let's see the case Not a normal palmar case. Where is the vehemence and fire and passion. Note how passive the bolded is. This is a case meant to fail. + Show Spoiler [Passive pushes for MZ lynch] + On July 17 2012 23:26 Palmar wrote: But between lynching kurumi, and preferably killing MZ too, you have some time if you're town. On July 18 2012 00:52 Palmar wrote: I have no problem with kurumi nuking rol as I already explained. And I don't think BH will flip scum. If you want to lynch someone else, MZ would be my first choice. On July 18 2012 05:32 Palmar wrote: I also have no intention of lynching you right now, I want to lynch Kurumi, MZ, maybe gonzaw. I can only kill one guy a day On July 18 2012 05:35 Palmar wrote: regarding GGQ, he's super lurky when he's scum, but he kinda is as town too. It's not a bad call to lynch him based on his day 1 posting right now, but I'd prefer MZ On July 18 2012 07:35 Palmar wrote: Can we kill MZ instead pls? On July 18 2012 07:43 Palmar wrote: for emphasis ##Vote Meapak Then I post my initial case on Gonzaw and suddenly Palmar is known for his analysis which he clearly states in the early game. He is then wrong about Sandroba and BH straight away. Then when he pushes MZ he posts a case that is weak as shit and then never actually pushes it. He even pleads for us to vote MZ but never forces the issue, despite it being clear that we were looking for targets. His language is passive and nonconfrontational. Then when I post my case on Gonzaw suddenly Gonzaw is the flavour of the month and not MZ, despite his constant pleas to vote off MZ. Ok, maybe Gonzw was a more feasible lynch but why is his shoot to kill list devoid of his target he was pushing all Day 1? I'll tell you why because he realised that MZ is probably the other Executive. To which I get no response. In fact he hasn't bothered to comment on anything since then. Why? Because his only reason for defending Palmar evaporated into thin air. TLDR: layabout irrationally cast doubt on both Sandroba and Syllo. Then he defended Palmar because "there were no cases against him" but when evidence was presented he refused to comment on them. He is lurking like he does when he is scum. | ||
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On July 25 2012 13:53 supersoft wrote: GJ VE! i told you guys to give this power to me and i'll lynch MZ. GJ! if you have the choice between 1) someone who shot the mafia CEO n2, catched the other scumvet AND who is listing the guy you want to get killed on his scumlist ALL game long 2) someone who gave you power for no real reason you manage to chose the second guy! ESPECIALLY after a night like this!!! no death means that something is wrong in the scumteam! now we have this situation. we cant be sure about probulus anymore because he decided to do unexpected stuff Well I asked him to explain why he never gave it you but he didn't. Do you think laya is scum? | ||
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On July 24 2012 22:09 supersoft wrote: first stage suspects: sloosh, meapak, gonzaw second stage suspects: zealos, layabout, austin third stage suspects: rastaban, Mattchew, marvellosity, Q-bert-Z Given he is in your list of scum (sure second tier but he certainly is there) I don't see what your problem is with my choice? VE would have had to have chosen who gets the crown last night. So the no death thing doesn't come into it. I agree you were a better choice (well kind of, I know I am town so he got that part right) but I don't see why you think I am scum. Doing "unexpected" things that fit with your reads, shouldn't impact on your read of me. | ||
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On July 25 2012 14:25 supersoft wrote: hah! This is finally something I completely support! :-D Anyways I have a problem with the night. Why didn't anyone die? I'm assuming someone was protected. Bugs dying night 1 could be explained by the medic protecting Sandro. Why he wasn't protected night 2 is a mystery though. If there was a vet around I would have expected a claim. Alternatively maybe there is a scum mechanic which can save shots for later? Or maybe they shot a bullet proof third party role... | ||
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ROFl I am beast mode this game  | ||
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A dud nuke for scum, maybe there might be a scum nuke out there after all. But why haven't scum used it yet? | ||
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