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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
People, either get of this stupid bandwagon on Bass or at least say why you think he should be lynched I already did. Have you stopped reading? I clearly stated it. What I also clearly stated was why I think your post targeting YourHarry was bullshit, which you seem to have completely ignored. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
Now if Lazer meant the entire play of YourHarry and not just what he quotes, he should have said so. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
In the post I read Lazermonkey states that: 1) YourHarry is downplaying that we mislynched Release and almost Zen_Man 2) YourHarry said my check on Bass was useless. On the first point; YourHarry clearly states what happened. We mislynched Release and we almost killed Zen_Man. This is not downplaying, this is the opposite. On the second point; YouHarry said that, because there is a miller we can't know for sure that a person investigated as Guilty is Mafia. Now,now. I am not making a case against Lazermonkey, neither am I saying everything else he has said is a lie. I am simply saying that his last post regarding the case against YourHarry might now have been so well thought-out. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
His first post of substance is dedicated towards first counter-arguing some of Hapa's arguments against TMG but then backing up Hapa's case with a few of his own arguments. The next few posts are about a misunderstanding with Lazer. Now on to the interesting stuff. When the misunderstanding is cleared up BassInSpace opens his next post with agreeing with Hapa on the Hapa vs Hopeless discussion. By this time, Hopeless1der has already made an unforgivable mistake as scum. He has outright lied! This means that within three days, he will be dead. If Lazer was killed the first night, It would have been either Jingle or Hopeless up for the next lynch. If then Jingle was killed (or investigated) Hopeless would be next. Now, BassInSpace's only option is to jump on the case against Hopeless early so he can avoid later suspicion. This has worked with both Hapa and Lazer, as their key point in his townie play seems to be this incident. What this does with BassInSpace's credibility is obvious as we can see the result. He continues the very same post with making a case against Zen_Man. The credibility of this case is irrelevant. This is his back-up should someone other than Hopeless get lynched. He finishes his post saying that Hapa's point and Hapa's meta case (remember this) make his vote swing in the favor of Hopeless rather than TMG or Zen, the two he previously made cases against. The next 3 posts are just clarifications. So not important. The next post on line Is not really that suspicious other than he says he doesn't really like meta, yet his decision to vote for Hopeless was partially based on meta. The rest of this post can be seen as suspicious, but that will ultimately lead to too much WIFOM so I won't go there(E.g he encourages Jinglehell to make a good basis for defense to Hopeless which he then can support). The following post is quite strange. What I see as important to note here is that he says the lying is the thing that made him vote for, and now keep his vote on, Hopeless. He even says Hapa's other points aren't so strong. Earlier he said that Hapa's case (including meta analysis) made him vote for Hopeless. Somewhat strange, indeed. He then starts a little case against Mackin. I won't go into it much, other than it seems like BassInSpace really likes to keep as many balls juggling at the same time as possible. The reason for this is too much WIFOM, I won't go there. His next posts isn't that interesting. It's just throwing very, very, very mild suspicion on Lazer and YourHarry Link. He says something along the line of "Give us some credit, we can spot a bad case, No one has listened to Lazer and that he doesn't like YourHarry's play. This post is regarding my little "I am townie" trap which he kinda fell into. Now I said my vote was being deciding in a sense it was not for Lazer, which is to some degree true. The other who opposed this stance (can't remember who) did it because they didn't realize I could vote for Lazer and switch the vote. BassInSpace's mistake was one based on logical conclusion. He says that if Lazer had flipped green(had I chosen him), I would be very, very suspicious, even more so than the person who pushed the case. Now personally I believe that every vote is as important as the other, as in any other "election" (don't know if right word here, but still). It might just have been a late update (which is actually was ^^). If Lazer flipped green, my logical conclusion would be to target the person who lead the case against Lazer, not the one who happened to throw the last vote (which has just as much worth as the other). This is yet an attempt for him to keep as many balls juggling as possible. Now he hops onto the Release case for quite a few posts, not unexpected for scum. Neither is it unexpected for townie. He continues his posts with trying to clarify things. A little WIFOM about the probability of Hapa being Mafia. Updates his suspicion against Mackin and YourHarry, keeping the balls juggling (Again; The reason is not clear so can't say this makes him scum). This post is in response to Mackin who talks about BassInSpace's arguments against him (Mackin). BassInSpace has consistently been trying very hard to not make enemies. He has hold a case against Mackin almost the entire game and now he apologizes for pushing him. Dammit dude, show some decisiveness. You have been suspicious of him all game, yet you do not want to commit to a lynch on him. For that matter, you don't really want to lead a lynch on anyone even though you have so many suspicions. Now Bass votes for Zen_Man until he posts his defense. So we all kinda sit around waiting. This is how everyone acted so nothing suspicious. The rest is not showing anything suspicious (the whole of page 3 on his filter) apart from maybe this post. Now he conveniently brings up his backup case against Mackin, says he was never really pressured so he had to "poke" him. Now if you found him so suspicious why didn't you lead a case against him? Your answer is always "because other were more suspicious" and you point out quite a few times. Yet you have not actively tried to lynch the more suspicious person, you have more or less agreed with everyone else while keeping slight suspicions on other people. I feel like BassInSpace is kind of an "observer" in a sense he doesn't commit to a case. He simply backs up someones points and follows their lead while keeping some suspicions on other players which he can fall back later on. This also makes him come off as very indecisive. The fact that he first says that Hapa's arguments (including the meta analysis) made him vote for Hopeless, but then says that the sole reason he voted for Hopeless was the outright lie, is quite confusing. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
For the second one. I said in the post that the only think suspicious is that he questions the use of meta. The other part I said was too much WIFOM to build a case on. I point out the fact he clearly says he dislikes the use of meta analysis. You seem to think that this was a comment only regarding Jingle's meta analysis. In that case I don't see how he can dislike Jingle's meta analysis but support yours. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
I'm not the only one around here who thinks that very late vote switches like that can be suspicious. Just look at the opinions of others in this game and the whole TL mafia forum. We'll just have to disagree about this point. If you think the same about votes, I can agree here. However this was not a voteswitch. I just did a late update. The Jingle and YourHarry discussion (in which I laid my vote) was already over a long time ago. That I value scummy posting more than I value meta. Does that mean I think meta is completely useless? No, I never said that. I made that point because Jingle was relying only on meta in his defense of Hopeless. This was a case of scummy posting vs meta. When I agreed with Hapa's case, it was because Hopeless was lying and dodging. The meta that Hapa used was in conjunction with the scummy posting. So again I state; I voted for Hopeless because of the lying and dodging, but the meta case against him helped a little as well. I was perfectly willing to vote him even without the meta case. I never said you think it is completely useless. Just you putting words in my mouth to make your defense sound better makes we want to lynch you. I did not apologise for pushing him. I apologised if he felt that I was being unfair/overly aggressive in my push. As for my pressuring him and then letting it go, you'll see that my main point against him was his being indecisive. When he actually had a stance on players, I eased off of him, but pretty much everyone here can see he hasn't been around lately, which is why I started posting about him again. This isn't indecision, this is updating my reads based on his behaviour. I criticised hi reads for being indecisive because they were full of "well he could be scum because of A but he might be town because of B ". So this attitude is basically "I have some things that point him to scum and some to town, but I won't pressure him because if I do he might slip scum". How else can someone be overly aggresive in a push? Isn't it a good think to make see how people react to pressure? As for Mackin, again, read what I posted earlier in this reply. I pushed him because he was being very indecisive, then he actually posted his stance, so I backed off of him. If I had continued hounding him on my original points after that point in time, I would have been guilty of tunneling him. Also, I have been lynching the more suspicious person, (started on TMG, switched to Hopeless after all the evidence against him, started on Mackin and switched to Zen Man because he seemed to refuse to defend himself properly) I can't help it if I'm active when most others are not. By the time I can come on to check the thread, a lot of my suspicions have already been posted. Explain to me how that would've been tunneling. You have never just had one person suspicious, in fact you have almost always had 3 (First TMG, Hopeless & Zen. Then TMG, Mackin, me and Zen. Then Zen, mackin and Release. Now YourHarry&Mackin) people being suspicious to you. I don't see how pushing your long-lived case would've been tunneling. His contradiction in the Hopeless case was that he votes on Hopeless based on Hapa's arguments and partially the meta analysis. Then he says the only thing of value is that Hopeless outright lied. Regardless, what I am trying to emphasis is that BassInSpace voting for Hopeless does not make him townie in any sense. When BassInSpace started posting against him, Hopeless had already lied, and as I mentioned, would most likely die within 3 days tops. He saw this mistake and actively started gaining townie points, which is actually something BassInSpace has done consistently. He has more actively tried to gain townie points than lynch who he thinks is suspicious. And when I talk about actively lynching, I am talking about pushing a case and adding to it. BassInSpace hasn't really done that. At all. Rather he has been trying to get on everyone's good side. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
No, he is implying that since we were both wrong about Zen and Release, regular scum hunting is bad. Note also that he did in fact IGNORE that we managed to lynch Hope based on regular scum hunting. So basically we have had 50% success with regular scum hunting. 50% chance of success, where have I heard that before...hmmm? So you are saying he downplayed that the lynch on Hopeless was successful. Really, I think your post was just a huge misunderstanding on the word "downplay". He said in his post that if we don't lynch into Bass at all, we have wasted one check which is false. Yes, if we don't get the miller, this check will be useless(assuming we don't lynch bass and he flips scum...). Untill then, the check is not useless. He did in fact even say this: No, he says that since BassInSpace has turned guilty we will need to be lynched sooner or later. He never said if we don't lynch him it will be useless. He says that because he turned out guilty BassInSpace should sooner or later be lynched. So basically we have had 50% success with regular scum hunting. If this is implying that so far we've had at 50% success with regular scum hunting, you are mistaken. If it does not; Please clarify. We have used regular scum hunting to declare Hopeless, Zen_Man and Release scum. Now Zen_man claimed medic. If he didn't have a blue role he would be dead now, we all know that. so 1/3 have been mafia. that is ~33% success rate. You could even argue that Jingle would be dead or still pressured had I not investigated him (this is however nothing substantial and I won't use it against anyone). Your last posts has made no sense to me at all. If you are basing your suspicion on other's arguments against YourHarry, so be it, but right now you aren't making any sense. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
His report, which will be his last, is too strong to go to a waste. We need to lynch Bass. Now or later. As I understand it, he feels it will go to a waste since you and Hapa does not recognize it. You are both saying it more or less doesn't matter. Zen wasn't lynched. It's stupid to say that Release would've been dead if Zen would have flipped green. Becuase this isn't true. Why is that stupid? There was two major cases, one against Release and one again Zen_Man. Zen_Man was cleared because he claimed blue. The case against Release wouldn't have dropped if Zen was killed and flipped townie. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
Yes, but you are assuming that Release would've been auto-lynched in case if Zen_Man would've flipped green. Since we had enough information to lynch him already I feel like he wouldn't have lived long should Zen have flipped townie. Especially since the case against Release wasn't born because Zen was innocent. They were two parallel cases and the only reason we picked Zen was because he didn't post a defense, while Release did. You seem to be building your point (that we've had 50% success rate) on the fact that you do not believe Release would've been lynched since the lynch on him was a follow-up case from Zen being innocent. This is just my take on what would transpire, however; Just as this makes no real defense for YourHarry, I don't think your points make no real offense against YourHarry. What I am trying to argue is that the points you brought up on YouHarry are invalid and should not be used against him. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
What are you talking about? I did not pressure him once, I pressured him twice, and he reacted to the pressure by giving us his stance, which is what I wanted. "I won't pressure him"? I did, and he reacted. I said to further pressure him based on my points against him at the time (ie his indecisiveness) would be tunneling. He gave me his stance, pressuring him further based on indecisiveness would have been repeating myself at the time. This is the post you answered with your apology: Valid points against me, but could be playing smart mafia trying to lynch the player with some weaknesses in play (aka me). If I get lynched please be careful of him as I'm undecided of why he's pushing me so hard. I really have nothing to hide so if I'm continually pushed I will be suspicious. He says that he will most likely look suspicious if continually pushed and what you do is apologize for pushing him. I also love the fact that this exact post you are answering is something Hapa is holding against him now. Since you didn't find anything suspicious at all with this post before I guess you can effectively tell Hapa why this post does not make Mackin scummy(Hapa's second point is based on this). As for the rest of your post. Townies can accidentally play scummy. You seem to base your point on that this would be false. Your defense is that you had substantial evidence. While that might be true it does not tell us you are not mafia. I honestly don't see how leading a case against a townie using substantial evidence is seen as pro-town play. The result is a mis-lynch. Now I do not claim that this makes him Mafia. I am saying to me, this does not clear him. I would say this is perfect environment for Mafia (this is just pointing it out, I am not holding it against anyone). I don't believe the tone of the post indicated that I found him all that suspicious, though you may argue it's "juggling". No, not solely this post. Currently I'm still waiting on Release to actually post something about the meta case laid against him by Hapa, rather than talk about his little breadcrumb. He never actually said anything in his defense, he just counter cased Hapa. I'm off to bed now, so since there is still half of day 2 to go, I will ##Vote The_Zen_Man Subject to change should he actually post something decent by the time I'm around again of course. You point suspicion on Release for the same reason you vote for Zen_Man. The basis being both players lack of defense. There were other points against Zen_Man too, I know that. I am saying this still classifies your actions as "juggling" which you seem to think you have disproved by quoting the most obvious anti-Release post you have made and saying why you thought people were suspicious. In fact, when I come to think of it. Hapa's whole case against Mackin is based on information which was available to you when you decided he has posted his stance and was fine. Feel free to prove Hapa wrong. Otherwise my point that you are actively pursuing townie point rather than actively pursuing lynch of suspicious of players. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
My point about BassInSpace's actions day 1 is that it doesn't clear him to me, like it does to you. For you his actions are fool-proof townie play. To me they are not, the reasons have been stated multiple times. The "meta case" case I have left behind. This is not something I can hold against him in a sensible manner. I never said he pushed me, I said he pointed suspicion when in reality it wasn't there. I will answer his paragraph (wich are ridiculous btw) But we don't know he is townie. Saying that town players can accidentally act scummy as a defense of said players just gives mafia the chance to hide behind this sort of cover. So I don't agree with what you are saying here. Scum would know he was townie, and if enabled too, scum would push a case against a townie using substantial evidence. I have never held this against you, neither have I held it for you. I pointed out it does not clear you. The next paragraph is dodging my question. Hapa makes a case against Mackin based of certain amounts of information. This same amount of information stopped BassInSpace too immediately jump on Mackin at the beginning of this day. Now I say you are trying to make friends rather than lead cases. These actions support this. Clarify your defense. This was hastily written. | ||
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Evulrabbitz
Sweden134 Posts
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