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ATTICA ATTICA | ||
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##Vote marvellosity | ||
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you are scum stop ignoring me | ||
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marv ignoring me because scum | ||
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On July 07 2012 01:37 Dangeresque77 wrote: [...] i would be ok to vote for prplhz but im not totally convinced that hes scum. then again it would help to jst go ahead and lynch one person to give us a starting ground [...] listen to this man | ||
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Last game VisceraEyes called marvellosity scum. VisceraEyes was town. Implying that I am blatantly trying to replicate last game for whatever purpose is ludicrous. | ||
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I also don't get why he implied that NoSmurfHere is wherebugsgo. On July 07 2012 06:09 VisceraEyes wrote: I'd really like prplhz to come explain his actions before we move on...because I'm totally fine with my vote where it is if this is the median level of play we can expect from prplhz this game. I fucking called his shit in MSM and I'm not letting him escape again because he lurked his way clear of suspicion. YOU HEAR ME PRPL YOU'RE NOT GETTING AWAY THIS TIME BRO "before we move on" "you're not getting away" Saying "before we move on" is no way to apply pressure which he is obviously making it seem like he's trying to do with his "you're not getting away". "if this is the level of play we can expect from prplhz this game" Implying that I'm town who is playing badly (in his eyes). I have no idea what he's trying to do with this post. I didn't even lurk in MSM, I pushed day1 lynch. There's more of that but I didn't do notes. slOosh On July 07 2012 07:44 slOosh wrote: [...] thoughts on prplhz I found his initial vote on me and subsequent explanation of it (low tolerance on bs) believable from town perspective. Now he called marv scum based on just one post (as he voted me first and the only thing that changed was 1 hr and a couple posts from BL and marv) - strange. His policy lynch on Zentor comes to mind, and perhaps he saw a strong parallel between that and marv's inital vote on MsZontar. Yet to stop him in such a way (calling him scum repeatedly rather than addressing town) isn't what I'd expect from a townie who genuinely wanted to do it. His "not this again" doesn't make sense, because he believes marv is scum, in which case it is VE and marv going at it, and they aren't both town in his mind, yet that was what it was in Movie Mini Mafia (the game he is referring to for those who don't understand) - a slugfest between two townies. People are definitely concerned and expressed suspicions of him yet he has not done anything to remedy this, but has been posting in a haughty / antagonistic manner. People are obviously putting visible effort into this game (beside me at the point), yet he throws a hissy fit. Concluding thoughts: People shouldn't be WIFOMing themselves out of a lynch. He did some scummy things. If he doesn't give adequate explanation / contributions, he should hang end of story. I don't get how slOosh can actually think that I was sure that marvellosity was scum. He even expresses doubt at this himself but then he just ignores that. First of all it was like two pages into the game. Who the hell has a clear read then? When did anybody ever post something that wasn't gauging reactions in the first pages of a game? Second, if I was sure that he was scum then it would be because there were some really good arguments and then I would have told you guys. Instead slOosh is using this to call me scum when he should really know better. I didn't do anything? Well that's right, I wasn't here. Yesterday was pretty crappy for me which also contributed to my thread presence. I saw that I got a PM and then I thought "cool, I know how to start this game, I'll do setup speculation" but first I voted slOosh because I thought it was funny that our filters would be identical (single vote, no explanation) but his would be scummy and mine wouldn't (his had no reason and mine has the clear reason that his didn't) and I like to try to cheer myself up when I am in a bad mood. I was kind of trying to cheer myself up. Then I went to setup page and saw that this was a semi-open setup and I had thought it was an open setup (I thought it was Radfield's setup from Newbie Mini Mafia XX) and I don't really know why but that just put me in a crappier mood (not that I prefer open setups to semi-open setups, just that I couldn't do setup speculation like I had planned to). Then I just voted marvellosity to gauge his reaction and to argue with someone ('cause I like a good argument and I was trying to cheer myself up) but he didn't react spontaneously like I had wanted him to (like the "lol, ok" in MSM). Then marvellosity and VisceraEyes had a couple of thoughtful posts in no way similar to what they did in MSM and I posted "not this again........" as a joke, again, to cheer myself up. Then people posted full cases on me but I didn't really feel like responding to any of it (and I don't think that I really can) because I was in a bad mood and then I just pointed out that Dangeresque77 was being way more scummy than I was and I left the thread. I'm going to be back in a few hours but I'm not going to be around for deadline. | ||
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Yes, VisceraEyes is my preferred lynch, although just about any lynch that isn't me should be preferred. | ||
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VisceraEyes himself starts the game out with a dumb vote just to get things started. Dumb shit happens in the first few pages all the time. He should really know this because he did it himself but he doesn't. He also seems the the most "bandwagonny" of the people on me, he doesn't contribute with new arguments and it doesn't seem like he understands the case on me at all even though he talks a lot. He called out for me several times and then when I appear he doesn't actually have anything for me. That seems like he is pretty happy with the lynch and he just wants to look good when it's over. Stuff like: On July 07 2012 08:09 VisceraEyes wrote: Don't appeal to authority marvel, come on. Zentor, Sinensis has all of ONE post guy...by virtue of post-count ALONE, prplhz has had more of a chance to prove his towniness than Sinensis has. So because I have five posts of one line, I should be a lot more townie than a guy with one post of four lines? What is this argument? I still don't get why he says that NoSmurfHere is wherebugsgo when he saw the *yawn* thing too and that looks really Aceish. On the other hand it seems like Ace is one of wherebugsgo's favorite players on this forum and maybe he unconsciously adopted some of his mannerisms. I would really rather wait until everybody's been around and talked this through but I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around tonight. I think this lynch is going to be pretty bad 'cause it was a bandwagon off of 5 lines and there's not a lot to get from it when I flip so I'm just going to go ahead and claim cop. Not that it matters for the lynch or anything but maybe some of you want to take it into your considerations. Sorry for sucking so much. Some days are better than others and sometimes you have a shitty day1 and then you get lynched. I haven't been lynched on day1 since forever (actually, I don't think I've ever been lynched on day1, a night1 shot is the best I can do I think) because people know that I always put in some effort. I have like 100 games and no activity modkills. | ||
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I don't get why wherebugsgo thinks my behavior is off because I am cop. He's one of the main proponents of "play blue as green" and how you're only blue while you send in your actions. I play like this, last time I was blue was in Pick Your Poison (with wherebugsgo) and no one guessed it. You can't just dismiss my case with "he's just saiyng that someone isn't playing as well as they should be and that's null" because you can dismiss any case with that really and it's not true. I don't really know about Sinensis. I just read his filter and I remember that I actually played a game with him some time ago, Normal Mini Mafia I, where he played really weird too. He insisted on tunneling me even though I was confirmed town (I was vigilante who had shot with no counterclaim) and he didn't know that mafia could communicate privately even though he had been mafia himself in an earlier game. I mislynched him on day2 in that game. I still want to lynch VisceraEyes. His unvote of me doesn't feel right, it's because of better posting even though he calls it asinine. He is also encouraging me to write a case on him, why the hell would any townie do that? It's like he's trying blatantly not to be timid while it actually makes no sense for town to encourage other people to write cases on them. I like slOosh a better though after seeing rereading his filter. ##Vote VisceraEyes Going to be around for a little while longer. Will change to Sinensis to prevent a no-lynch or a prplhz-lynch but I'm feeling better about this. | ||
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##Vote drwiggl3s good night everybody | ||
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I think we have a pretty good lynch in VisceraEyes and that's what I think we should be going for today. His early game was chaotic but that's characteristic of him and I wouldn't blame him for doing something, anything to get the game started. What you should note is that it is pretty obvious that he's doing something, anything to get the game started. On July 06 2012 22:47 VisceraEyes wrote: [...] ##Unvote ##Vote: prplhz Let's see if he wants to play now, or if he wants to continue playing like a troll. This is the post where he votes me (first vote on me) and he very clearly says that he thinks I'm a troll. The early game phase should be somewhat over by this but alright, he wants to pressure me 'cause he thinks I should shape up. Fine. But notice how he says that I'm a troll which means that he doesn't really think I'm scum, just trolling a bit like people do in the early game. Now just three posts later and without mentioning me at all he says this: On July 07 2012 05:15 VisceraEyes wrote: [...] Prplhz needs to get in here and either claim scum and self-vote and tell me the names of his partners or he needs to come establish his innocence by participating in the various discussions occurring right now. Tired of this prpl. If you're town you should be ashamed of yourself. If you're scum, thank you for telling your team to fuck off by so clearly illustrating your alignment to me and the rest of the class. Look at how hard his rhetoric is "either claim scum or be ashamed of yourself" this is way overreacting to what he just acknowledges was early game trolly posting. He's trying to take a hard stance but it's really conflicting with what he just said about me. On July 07 2012 06:09 VisceraEyes wrote: I'd really like prplhz to come explain his actions before we move on...because I'm totally fine with my vote where it is if this is the median level of play we can expect from prplhz this game. I fucking called his shit in MSM and I'm not letting him escape again because he lurked his way clear of suspicion. YOU HEAR ME PRPL YOU'RE NOT GETTING AWAY THIS TIME BRO I already mentioned this but here is more wobbling, "before we move on" and then the weird capitalized "YOU'RE NOT GETTING AWAY". It looks like he's trying to take a hard stance but it's very apparent that he isn't. On July 07 2012 06:37 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean...someone's gotta say it. Would scum act like that? Flippantly fingering their foes frivolously? That's my only problem with a prplhz lynch at this point...he's smart enough to realize that acting like this would bring about suspicion...but he's like gone, man. Would scum do something like that only to disappear and allow the shit to boil over? More wobbling but this post seems really fake and constructed and hesitant to me. "I mean...someone's gotta say it." looks so careful, is this how you think of VisceraEyes? He usually just says stuff that is on his mind, but the only times he does it in this game is when he's trying to take a hard stance on something where he doesn't have a hard stance. Then we have these two posts: On July 07 2012 07:15 VisceraEyes wrote: I shit I just broke Kenpachi Rule #2. :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO On July 07 2012 07:22 VisceraEyes wrote: "The first person to use the term 'pro-town' is scum" ...or something like that. This is a bit silly to call attention to yourself like this if you are town. But the most striking thing about this is that VisceraEyes is apparently rereading his own filter looking for scummy things. Who rereads their own filter and who does this looking for things that might look scummy? This scrutinizing and worrying about what you said is something mafia do. Already said this but VisceraEyes pulls out the weirdest argument ever for voting me over Sinensis when zentor asks him about it: On July 07 2012 08:09 VisceraEyes wrote: Don't appeal to authority marvel, come on. Zentor, Sinensis has all of ONE post guy...by virtue of post-count ALONE, prplhz has had more of a chance to prove his towniness than Sinensis has. 5 one liners is apparently so much more than one 4 liner that I should be looking really townie. It looks like he's just trying to make up some excuse instead of looking at it objectively and saying something like "they're both really scummy but I want to see where this leads". Already said this but after calling me out several times in the thread I show up and then he has absolutely nothing to me. I have a 5 line filter at this point but he asks me a question that proves that he didn't even read it. His unvote is nonsense, if he was voting me to pressure me into posting better then it doesn't make sense to unvote me while calling my posting "asinine". Then after I write a small case on him he votes me and then he dismissed my case... as OMGUS. Why isn't he just responding to my points? My case wasn't very big (because I usually dislike big cases like these). But see he finally takes a hard stance on me in this post: On July 08 2012 06:46 VisceraEyes wrote: More than what? His early play is BS, and he shitty blue claimed, and is now OMGUSing me when the reasoning for me disliking his play is the same that many others have given. He's just trying to BS now, taking on a well known player "because why would scum do that under scrutiny" or some shit. No, I don't believe his claim. A cop wouldn't act like he acted at the beginning of the game, I can't see it. That's not suboptimal, that's antiproductive. All it's going to do is get votes on you forcing you to claim...and then he blames me for it. LOL "bullshit" "I don't believe his claim" "cop wouldn't act like he acted" "That's not suboptimal, that's antiproductive" he's taking a really hard stance here. Cool. Does he follow up on it? On July 09 2012 13:21 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: Sinensis For reasons previously stated. No. New day, I didn't post since that other post (it's okay that he didn't follow up on it the day before because I wasn't getting lynched) but today is another day and he has a chance to push his biggest scum reads but he just throws his vote at Sinensis when that lynch is getting momentum. I don't like his Sinensis case at all and having bad reasons for lynching people is a big scum tell. On July 08 2012 15:57 VisceraEyes wrote: As a townie, it occurs to me that anyone switching off of me would get townie points from me if the target flips town in the lynch in question. Why? Because it doesn't make sense from a scum perspective to change from one townie to another and risk coming under scrutiny for late-switching. It makes much more sense, from a townie perspective, to assume that those who for whatever reason tried to find an alternative candidate and avoid a no-lynch scenario while switching off a known townie (myself) are town. Fundamentally, it should make no sense from a scum perspective to switch late onto another townie, if Sinensis were town. That's why I think he's viewing the game from a different perspective - from a scum perspective. This is the crux of his argument. This is so hilariously ironic because I just accused VisceraEyes of the same, VisceraEyes unvoted me (apparently thinking I was townie enough) and then in that very same post he said "Come at me bro" but he didn't feel like responding to that. Townies might not respond because they don't think it was a scummy thing to do, but then they wouldn't attack others for it either! Double standards. Fact is that he is attacking somebody who has been under attack for a bigger part of the game which is symptomatic for VisceraEyes this game, first me then Sinensis. ##Vote VisceraEyes I don't really know about this Sinensis case. It seems to me like he just wrote a "that" instead of an "if" and it's not really a big deal. slOosh also made assumptions about scum night action here: On July 09 2012 11:49 slOosh wrote: Hah, with prplhz' check this game could be over today. ##Vote VisceraEyes Implying that I had a check (when it's pretty logical that scum don't want me checking anybody). | ||
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How would you feel with the five biggest town voices on your back with 8 hours left and you knew you couldn't be around much until deadline? I think that zentor and zontar defended me, woopdeedoo. You even said "I don't care about what you think" and that's what I thought when I saw you people on me, you wouldn't care about anybody else and just listen to each other. What is your opinion on VisceraEyes? | ||
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I think slOosh looks townie enough. I read his filter yesterday and nothing really tinkled my senses since then. | ||
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I don't like how VisceraEyes is avoiding a lynch because people are switching onto easy targets (Sinensis, zentor). We have a really good case on VisceraEyes and people seems to acknowledge this but for some reason no one is voting him which I don't like. Why did slOosh change away from some guy who he says he thinks is pretty much confirmed mafia just to lynch some easy target in zentor? | ||
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On July 11 2012 09:09 HiroPro wrote: A friendly reminder ![]() "2.) Don't spam. This isn't IRC, try to consolidate your posts, its horrible when pages 20-80 are all one line posts between two players yelling at each other" ... or one player yelling at everybody else ![]() Going to bed 'cause it's pretty late. | ||
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I usually just look for one scum at a time but we're at LYLO tomorrow. marvellosity is confirmed town by his vigilante shot. Dangeresque77 looks town and there was a roleblock confirming his role, I doubt that scum would tie themselves together like that on day1. Zephirdd has been playing a townie game (and he can't be the roleblocker). That leaves slOosh, Bluelightz, zentor and Sinensis. Of these I think that zentor looks townier. He has been doing something that is very uncharacteristic of scum (as I already pointed out). I think slOosh looks pretty bad by now. Bluelightz has been under the radar for the entire game which I don't think is very much like him. Sinensis is kind of a null but he would be my last scum. I'll flesh these out if I'm alive tomorrow but now you have my opinion. | ||
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I am very clearly saying that I'll do it tomorrow if I'm still around and I'm not going to run away from that or you can freely lynch me. You can't just assume that I'll never do what I've promised just because I didn't do it within 20 minutes, and using that to call me scum is nothing short of ridiculous and frankly it looks quite desperate. | ||
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I already talked about my suspicions of slOosh because he made a very logical mistake, he assumed that I was very serious about marvellosity being scum when it was two pages into the game and I hadn't presented a single argument. He used this to attack me for a comment on VisceraEyes/marvellosity (the "not again.......") when it was pretty obvious that that wasn't very serious either, they weren't doing anything even remotely resembling what happened in MSM. It seemed to me like he was purposely misinterpreting me just so he would have a dumb but original argument for voting me which seemed scummy to me. His first case also stood out to me. It all starts out with "I've been trying to scum hunt in a new way and I don't really know if I'm doing it right" which sounded odd, why would you want people to think of your analysis as experimental and inaccurate? Why are you even making this case if you think you can do better scum hunting in another way? It's cool that you want to try something new out but forcing it into the thread when it is sub par makes no sense. The case itself was also weird, he is accusing Sinensis of being really stubborn in his defense of me and being antagonistic. This stood out for me because those things are actually slightly townie tells if you don't know anything about Sinensis (that that's actually the way he plays in which case it's more like null). The whole case also stands out to me as a "token contribution", even though he says that he knows he needs to stand by his reads he doesn't actually push the Sinensis lynch, the rest of the day is spent talking about who else people want to lynch until he switches to drwiggl3s. This post also bothered me 'cause he is just attacking my case with a very generic argument "You just don't think he is playing townie enough". I don't think that was what I did but even if it was, that's a pretty good argument too! People need to play their townie game or else you should get suspicious of them which is why I got suspicious of slOosh in the first place (because he was misinterpreting me and trying to lynch me on it). This post contained the very silly "If you take away the MrZentor tag", but you don't! He made those posts, you have to judge him by that! You can't just take stuff away and leave the rest in that makes absolutely no sense in mafia. zentor is one of those people, if he played dota2 he would pick furion and not participate in team fights or ganks and just jungle the entire game until his team lost and you can't just ignore that, especially when he actually has a pretty clearly defined meta. You can't just take away parts of the game and then leave the rest in, you cannot take away anything. He is blatantly ignoring a simple fact so he has an argument to lynch someone who isn't acting particularly scummy. slOosh's big case on me: On July 11 2012 13:40 slOosh wrote: Admits that he knows that I was pretty much goofing around, yet he is taking it very seriously.Case on prplhz Scum attributes: apathy, subtle accusations Point 1: The cop claim prplhz goofs around D1 and ends up claiming cop: As discussed prior, his claim is really off. Why would he do it? You can trust town motivated marv and NSH who both expressed concern about the claim. The thing that most surprised me was how he claimed cop. He snuck it into a giant wall of text as a little aside, one that I actually missed till marv freaked out about it: He just outted himself as cop and rendered his blue power useless. Not only that, but the "not that it matters" just shows apathy to town. It is unreasonable to treat a power role so flippantly and claiming so casually, as it makes it so much easier for mafia to deal with it. Apathy. Point 2: Subtle accusations against me Multiple times does prplhz say that I did something suspicious, but never has he actually considered me as scum (build a case, engage in conversation with me, discuss me with anyone else). This is his post when he is defending and explaining himself. What I've quoted is only part of the full post. In his "defense" post, he spends more time subtly accusing me rather than actually explaining himself. You can clearly see he has some problems with my play. What does he do with it? Another instance in which he subtly accuses me. He clearly has a problem with what I said, and insinuates that I'm illogical in the post. Yet he never pursues a lynch on me. Calls me suspicious but never treats me as scum. I'll quote myself here - addressing his third subtle accusation post. Again he points out things he finds suspicious with me, but never moves to discuss it or get a better read. This is apathy - town care about lynching scum. He clearly has had several issues with me thus far, but he never does anything with it. Furthermore, there is inherent contradiction as two times (posts that come between the accusations) does he say I look townish. This is extreme hedging. Calls me townish, points out suspicious things in me. Calls me townish, points out something suspicious. Allows him to play to town sentiment - he doesn't want to draw attention to himself by pushing me, but wants an avenue in which he is able to cast suspicion and doubt on me, and eventually set up the mislynch. Point 3: More apathy, origin of VE case. This is related to my MrZentor scum read. So far what has prplhz accomplished this game? He claimed cop D1 because of weird play on his own part. D2 he calls VE scummy. If you reread how D2 unfolds (you should since we mislynched), how does it play out? He posts a case on VE and checks out. He comes back to defend himself a bit, and then as a MrZentor lynch starts up, he comes in with A couple of posts later he gets the lynch back onto VE and checks out again. He started the lynch, but seems to have desire to discuss, or push his thoughts. Reminds me of what Mattchew did in Movie Mini. Starts it but has no involvement in it - only involvement is to redirect away from MrZentor lynch. I've addressed how he does it is also suspicious (he is hesitant but also confident in the same post that he calls zentor town, which betrays a pushing of agenda and mismatch in action and words). Conclusion: prplhz doesn't care about pursuing reads (the only one he had is the one on VE) but only in throwing subtle accusations at me, he isn't transparent (hasn't given a single opinion or mention of half the player list), only thing he does is redirect the D2 lynch from MrZentor to VE, frivolous cop claim. Library closing, so this will be it until tomorrow unless I decide to stay up late. Conclusion: slOosh is going to get lynched today because he is scum and he is either stretching the truth or straight up lying while not wanting to actually get involved in anything this game. slOosh usually looks so very townie just because of the coherent and easily understandable and correct thought process but this game he looks really off. | ||
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On July 13 2012 06:45 marvellosity wrote: The silence of people like prplhz/Danger/Bluelightz is really pissing me off. lol talk about timing I checked Bluelightz yesterday by the way but I was roleblocked again. I think you should consider your prplhz/zentor as last scum and look at Bluelightz instead. The thing about Bluelightz is that I didn't really notice him this game when his recent successes and good play should have given him a lot more motivation (just look at Wheel of Fortune where he makes 5 cases in a day and he becomes the most townie of townies and Radfield wants to create a new mafia award just for him, he is not trying any of that right now). | ||
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##Vote slOosh | ||
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horrible scum play when i could just not have acted like a moron on day1 and not had to fakeclaim. don't really know about anybody else 'cause i didn't read the thread. all my cases were just skimming someone's filter and then just finding whatever. the only remotely good thing i did was when zentor was getting lynched on day2 and marv said On July 10 2012 09:21 marvellosity wrote: Ugh. For some reason this feels like a mistake :<<< then i wrote a post that made him go On July 10 2012 20:57 marvellosity wrote: I like this whole post actually. You've put your finger on why I'm feeling uncomfortable. The thing is - was Zentor's refusal to answer my question on Sinensis (repeatedly) scummy? For definite. I mean, I only got antagonistic after I had to ask him for the third time. But why the deuce would he actually pick a whole fight with me? I mean, surely he can't be so unselfaware that he wouldn't know he would come off worse on that one. I'm just remembering WoF where, for reasons that are still a mystery to the entire community, as town he decided to piss off the entire game and get himself lynched. He's basically talked himself into being lynched, which is super dumb as townie but perhaps on the flip side, unforgivable/unconceivable as scum. Sigh. Actually I think I could get down with a VE lynch. Some of what's been in the cases so far I've agreed with, some not. I think the most mileage comes from examining his votes and the reasons behind them. I will go over the cases on him and his filter and see what I think. Actually as of yesterday I felt I could lynch VE, but I didn't feel the need to let that out the bag so early. marv opened himself up to manipulation with that first post and he probably shouldn't have done that (or at least you should be perfectly aware that you're doing it). that's literally the only thing i had to do as scum all game. i don't know what zentor or bluelightz did 'cause i very literally didn't read any of their posts, didn't even skim them. if you guys hadn't tunneled each other for bad reasons then i'm pretty sure you would have figured everything out (with exception of sinensis whose play i don't understand at all). next time just lynch a guy who acts like a moron like i did. if not then policy lynch zentor or sinensis 'cause you very likely cannot read them anyway. maybe drwiggl3s was a good day1 lynch (i didn't read any of his posts) but you could probably have done better. | ||
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marv and zeph had a good partnership going with a lot of trust but it seems more like you used it to whip each other into a frenzy than actually talking about things. | ||
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