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rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 27 2012 03:43 GMT
#1107
Until we get a verbal confirmation that we have enough people to kill xsksc please no one switch your vote. Mafia would love nothing more than have us do a no lynch. If someone switches and makes us have a mislynch I will do my best to get you policy lynched tomorrow.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 27 2012 03:57 GMT
#1121
On June 27 2012 12:56 Mattchew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 27 2012 12:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
If you're town, your death isn't necessarily the end of the game for town. Appeal to emotion AND fear simultaneously while you're at it.

I'm sorry if you're town, but I don't think you are. Get over it.

I'm trying to win by avoiding a mis lynch

I'm appealing to the same logic you've used to push my lynch Aka none

What was your opinion on marv, is he innocent you think?
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 27 2012 03:59 GMT
#1125
What!!!! VE, don't be ridiculous!
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 27 2012 04:07 GMT
#1134
This is like the stunt Godfather pulled in bang bang where he shot as soon as day come up and acted like he had a valid reason. Uhg!

Now we don't know if Matt was town or mafia, if marv was town or mafia and all the votes are nearly pointless right now as we don't know who was on scum and who wasn't.

On June 27 2012 12:43 rastaban wrote:
Until we get a verbal confirmation that we have enough people to kill xsksc please no one switch your vote. Mafia would love nothing more than have us do a no lynch. If someone switches and makes us have a mislynch I will do my best to get you policy lynched tomorrow.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 27 2012 13:49 GMT
#1161
Allow me to quote a townie from the last game I played in:
On June 17 2012 19:53 marvellosity wrote:
Mafia heuristic: if an outrageous play is retarded from both a scum and a town viewpoint, it is usually from mafia
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 27 2012 13:59 GMT
#1164
I am referring to VE not marv. Sorry I thought that would be more clear,
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 27 2012 14:05 GMT
#1166
So VE spends 2 days tunneling Marv, it has filled the lynch discussion no-stop, we finally get a majority on marv and then we begin to think well maybe marv is telling the truth so Mattchew seems to be the best choice, we barely get enough to have a majority lynch on him , and then minutes before the deadline VE jumps ship and cancels the whole lynch.

VE let his opinion supercede the votes of half the town
He reacted when there could be no recourse or time to switch to a different lynch which is deceptive
He filled the chat with spam between himself and marv for 2 days and then cops out at the last minute
We don't get to see the flips on anyone discussed so we don't know what was right or wrong.
Both marv and Matt were on his top list of scum
As others have pointed out he specifically has stated that even if matt was town it wasn't that bad for town.
We could have learned from the votes when we found out for sure what matt was, but now we don't know b/c you can be sure mafia isn't going to hit mat tonight.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 27 2012 21:57 GMT
#1244
On June 28 2012 06:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
I also prefer a Matthchew lynch - or a prplhz lynch, or a risk.nuke lynch.

Not a big fan of the prplhz lynch, I would rather lynch either of the other two and decide which way to head once they flip red.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 27 2012 22:11 GMT
#1271
Bah! and our cop was shot too

Time to read through his posts and hope he bread crumbed some information.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 27 2012 23:07 GMT
#1293
##Vote Mattchew
I think he should have died last night if he hadn't have been saved last minute :/
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 27 2012 23:56 GMT
#1315
On June 28 2012 08:41 marvellosity wrote:
ok but no-one else claimed rb. ok scratch that sorry

Yeah, very unlikely he is sk, though as you said scum is possible.
I am going to review the current players, I have felt risk was scum the whole game but I'd he was rbed that wouldn't work.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 28 2012 13:49 GMT
#1337
So yesterdays lynch bothers me for quite a few reasons. Now I know mafia may not play optimally so this isn't an air tight thing but it does tie into a couple of other things that I think can help us figure this out.

Lets go through the lynch. It ended with this being the final vote count:

risk.nuke (0): Rastaban
Zephirdd (RIP) (0): Snarfs
rastaban (1): xsksc
VisceraEyes (0): marvellosity
marvellosity (3): VisceraEyes, Probulous, Shraft, Mattchew, Snarfs, Rastaban, prplhz, marvellosity VisceraEyes
xsksc (1): risk.nuke
Shraft (0): prplhz
Mattchew (5): Rastaban, Snarfs, Probulous, VisceraEyes, Shraft, marvellosity

Now remember mafia knows marv isn't lying and they believe he can shoot. Now the real question here is what alignment is Mattchew? Lets discuss him being scum vs town

If he is mafia why would scum switch to him? They can lynch marv and we would be in the spot we are right now. just switch marv and VE. Remember scum didn't know that VE would switch off so they play knowing that matt gets lynched. We know probulous and marv are both town that leaves me snarfs and shraft. If mattchew is mafia then the mafia team would seem to be prplhz,risk.nuke,Mattchew. Because if any mafia voted for him it would have been an awful play they lose their first member and we go into town today with 3-1-2 and a way to track things back to them. The real problem is their is no need to do it, Any of them can feign not being on line and just let marv be lynched we could only switch because we had the exact amount, 6 players, online. what are our chances that all town voted for matt, I think it is unlikely

How about if Mattchew is town, well then things start to make a lot more sense from an optimal play stance. Mafia knows that either lynch is good for them, but they have good reason to believe they can control marv with either a block or letting him kill VE. This means that both lynches are good for them but killing matt is slightly better (2-1-3 instead of 3-1-3)

I think they thought the lynch of mattchew would end the game for them with a 2-1-3 day today so they got a bit bold I would like to point out something else, including today every lynch has had Snarfs and Shraft voting in sync for the same person.

Also check out this:
On June 27 2012 03:42 Shraft wrote:
Snarfs meta

Here's a short list that describes Snarfs' posting in EMM (where he was mafia) quite accurately:
  1. Comments on everything, but he has few (if any) scum reads of his own.
  2. Has a few lenghty posts, but none of them contain much own thoughts, it's mostly just short stuff about everything going on.
  3. Always has an opinion that corresponds well with what others have already said.
  4. Applies light pressure often, but rarely follows through. Doesn't push his reads hard.
  5. Tends to ask other people for their opinion rather than voicing his own thoughts.
  6. As the number of players dwindles, he starts providing more content and more own thought. Probably because it's harder to just blend in.


Here are Snarfs' post game thoughts:
Show nested quote +
On June 20 2012 07:14 Snarfs wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [Rest of his post] +
GG guys.

Thanks to the hosts .

First scum game and I was not kidding when I said it was way more stressful for me than town T_T. I kept looking back at things I was saying and kicking myself for saying them. Wish I could have done better, but I already feel like this experience will help my future scum play... that's kinda why I just wanted the game to end, time to move on and do better in the next one!

Artanis, you were way too damn towny. Stop that! But I don't know why you guys convinced yourselves I wasn't scum based on my meta. I'd never played scum before... there was no meta to compare .

Ghost properly calling out the fact that I'd asked people for previous games but never referenced them was one of those "Oh fuck" moments for me. Fortunately, noone else brought that up again...

Hyaach, sorry for pushing your lynch when you'd done nothing scummy. I actually felt really bad T_T. I'm not cut out for scum life haha.

Honestly, I spent way more time on this game than my posting reflects. Many times I'd spend a couple hours reading the thread and writing out a post, only to delete it and turn my laptop off because I didn't want to stick my head out. Rookie scum mistakes like that will be improved upon for next time and are my biggest takeaway.

Anyways, fun game nonetheless. Thanks again wbg, HiroPro and ET.


I compared Snarfs' play in EMM (where he was scum) to his play in WoF MM (where he was a vigilante), and I found some differences:
  1. He seems to be willing to post more as town. He had a 2,5 page filter in EMM (excluding post game stuff) despite surviving until N5. In WoF he had a 4 page filter even though he got killed during N3.
  2. His posting seems more condensed as mafia. He posts about a couple of subjects at once and only makes short remarks, whereas as town, he seems to be more focused in his posting.
  3. Less interrogative questions as town than as mafia. (Although he still poses a fair amount of questions.)
  4. Way stronger scum reads as town. Look at this post that he submitted before getting shot to death. He didn't post anything that even remotely resembles this post during EMM.


I think that it's too early to guess his alignment based on meta in this game, but his play looks more like his town meta to me. The way he presents his case on Zephirdd doesn't seem like his conservative scum play in EMM. However, it could just be him adapting his scum play according to his post game thoughts in EMM, which makes me quite uncertain.

Conclusion: Snarfs is still a null tell to me. I spent one hour researching his meta, but it didn't make me any more certain on his alignment. ._.

He spends an hour researching his "meta" and comes back with a null tell. he never follows up on this, and why didn't he judge him based on his own merits?


Shraft doesn't fare any better under scrutiny, Remember that long post on Zeph before we found out he died. As was pointed out he was too scummy to have been a scum target and they probably shot our jailer. My previous game I was working on a large case do you know when I posted it, minutes before day because I knew I might get shot and have all that effort wasted. Look however at his timing shortly after day post. and until a moment ago where he accuses me it was his only case this whole game. A whole game with 1 case that gets posted 15 min. before that person is revealed dead and flips town.


My conclusion is that Mattchew is not scum so he must be SK
I am going out on a limb here and I hate to admit I am wrong but with things the way they are it makes sense to me that risk.nuke is probably really town with that roleblock. The whole block the SK thing makes sense and so i will give him townie award #2
And of course marv is our last townie.

Now thew question is which of these scum do we lynch first?

##Unvote
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 28 2012 13:52 GMT
#1338
SO Prplhz, Snarfs, Shraft are any of you willing to vote for any of the others in that list? if so who?

To steal Marv's idea bonus townie points for quick answers
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 28 2012 13:53 GMT
#1339
OOooh Snarfs you listed prplhz as your last scum read, would you be up for teaming up and lynching him today?

Please...
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 28 2012 14:01 GMT
#1341
On June 28 2012 22:54 Mattchew wrote:
Marv

To simplify your process I will give you a step by step of how you should approach everything.

We are in Lynch Scum or Lose. Mis-lynching town or the SK will result in a scum victory

The first and MOST IMPORTANT thing you need to do is come up with a final read on Risk.
The reason for this, is that he is pretty much the only player 100% guaranteed not to be the SK.
Personally I believe him to be town. I don't think there is any logical reason for scum to hold their RB when I believe the SK has been hunting them all game (Zeph then Xsksc were scummy targets that I doubt scum would shoot at and I believe SK shot at them to kill mafia). It would be extremely bold of them to hold their RB and increase the chances of one of them being hit by SK.

If you disagree, I feel that you must vote and lynch Risk because if you are correct, he will flip scum 100%. There is no one else you can say this for.




If you agree with my assessment that Risk is town, then you have 5 players left, 4 of which are not town. I think the first step you must take is trying to remove the remaining townie from the pool of 5. This way (and this is so weird to actually say out loud) you can start to play connect-the-scum, something that normally can demolish town. However in this scenario, it is actually the best way to try and lynch a scum team member over the SK or townie.

Any route you choose I will support, other than voting me for lynch. I also will help you think out your reads if you would like my opinions. Basically Marv, the game comes down to your reads, no one else's, if you read the situation as Risk being town then his reads also matter, but until that point, the game is on your shoulders.

This is a very levelheaded and well thought out post, which coincides on my read that you are not scum.
I agree we shouldn't lynch you today. And if you really aren't scum then VE may have saved the game with his shenanigans last night. What do you feel about my post and its possible scum targets. I know we need marv on board to do anything but I would like your input.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 28 2012 14:09 GMT
#1342
Also since I am sure it will be brought up, Yes I am flip-flopping on my two biggest scum reads that I pushed all game long, it also means everyone was correct and I played horribly from the beginning tunneling people I shouldn't have.

I still don't want to change my mind, but the logic says that they are not scum and I can't fight with that as it is the best lead town has right now.

Post game I will discuss more and hopefully get some insight on what I did wrong until then lets lynch scum.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 28 2012 14:26 GMT
#1344
On June 28 2012 23:13 Mattchew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:01 rastaban wrote:
On June 28 2012 22:54 Mattchew wrote:
Marv

To simplify your process I will give you a step by step of how you should approach everything.

We are in Lynch Scum or Lose. Mis-lynching town or the SK will result in a scum victory

The first and MOST IMPORTANT thing you need to do is come up with a final read on Risk.
The reason for this, is that he is pretty much the only player 100% guaranteed not to be the SK.
Personally I believe him to be town. I don't think there is any logical reason for scum to hold their RB when I believe the SK has been hunting them all game (Zeph then Xsksc were scummy targets that I doubt scum would shoot at and I believe SK shot at them to kill mafia). It would be extremely bold of them to hold their RB and increase the chances of one of them being hit by SK.

If you disagree, I feel that you must vote and lynch Risk because if you are correct, he will flip scum 100%. There is no one else you can say this for.




If you agree with my assessment that Risk is town, then you have 5 players left, 4 of which are not town. I think the first step you must take is trying to remove the remaining townie from the pool of 5. This way (and this is so weird to actually say out loud) you can start to play connect-the-scum, something that normally can demolish town. However in this scenario, it is actually the best way to try and lynch a scum team member over the SK or townie.

Any route you choose I will support, other than voting me for lynch. I also will help you think out your reads if you would like my opinions. Basically Marv, the game comes down to your reads, no one else's, if you read the situation as Risk being town then his reads also matter, but until that point, the game is on your shoulders.

This is a very levelheaded and well thought out post, which coincides on my read that you are not scum.
I agree we shouldn't lynch you today. And if you really aren't scum then VE may have saved the game with his shenanigans last night. What do you feel about my post and its possible scum targets. I know we need marv on board to do anything but I would like your input.

I mean I dont think you are the SK and I think town is me/marv/risk so I dont really care much for your opinions no offense

Thats fine, I don't really want your thoughts on my opinions but the logic behind the vote on you last night. Also if you really believe what you just posted why are both Ss bussing me? If I am scum that doesn't make any sense. I have you, Sharft, and Snarfs out to get me, it doesn't make sense for me to be part of a scum team. Especially if you believe the players you listed are town.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 28 2012 15:34 GMT
#1362
On June 29 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:
The only player at the moment where my read on risk/matt others at the moment doesn't matter is prplhz.

##unvote
##vote: prplhz

I this this is a good call, Snarfs you are fine with this too right? He was on your list...

##vote: prplhz
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 28 2012 15:46 GMT
#1370
On June 29 2012 00:42 Shraft wrote:
prplhz your case is fucking shit. You didn't even bother responding to me when I pointed out that some stuff is your case is factually wrong.

@rastaban
Well, you are my #1 scum read at the moment, and you are comfortable lynching prplhz, and that makes me kind of wary...

Well since I am scum I am obviously just bussing my teammate. Might as well take advantage of this since the only way town can win is by lynching scum. Then tomorrow you lynch me win-win right.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
June 28 2012 15:51 GMT
#1372
On June 29 2012 00:48 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2012 23:01 rastaban wrote:
On June 28 2012 22:54 Mattchew wrote:
Marv

To simplify your process I will give you a step by step of how you should approach everything.

We are in Lynch Scum or Lose. Mis-lynching town or the SK will result in a scum victory

The first and MOST IMPORTANT thing you need to do is come up with a final read on Risk.
The reason for this, is that he is pretty much the only player 100% guaranteed not to be the SK.
Personally I believe him to be town. I don't think there is any logical reason for scum to hold their RB when I believe the SK has been hunting them all game (Zeph then Xsksc were scummy targets that I doubt scum would shoot at and I believe SK shot at them to kill mafia). It would be extremely bold of them to hold their RB and increase the chances of one of them being hit by SK.

If you disagree, I feel that you must vote and lynch Risk because if you are correct, he will flip scum 100%. There is no one else you can say this for.




If you agree with my assessment that Risk is town, then you have 5 players left, 4 of which are not town. I think the first step you must take is trying to remove the remaining townie from the pool of 5. This way (and this is so weird to actually say out loud) you can start to play connect-the-scum, something that normally can demolish town. However in this scenario, it is actually the best way to try and lynch a scum team member over the SK or townie.

Any route you choose I will support, other than voting me for lynch. I also will help you think out your reads if you would like my opinions. Basically Marv, the game comes down to your reads, no one else's, if you read the situation as Risk being town then his reads also matter, but until that point, the game is on your shoulders.

This is a very levelheaded and well thought out post, which coincides on my read that you are not scum.
I agree we shouldn't lynch you today. And if you really aren't scum then VE may have saved the game with his shenanigans last night. What do you feel about my post and its possible scum targets. I know we need marv on board to do anything but I would like your input.


so you believe risk is scum?

I don't think so, I think he really was Roleblocked last night.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
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