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Oops, I meant that I was going to research Snarf's play, because it looks similar to that in EMM which I just played in (where he was scum). It's probably too late to sway the lynch, but it will help us nevertheless.
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Snarfs meta
Here's a short list that describes Snarfs' posting in EMM (where he was mafia) quite accurately:- Comments on everything, but he has few (if any) scum reads of his own.
- Has a few lenghty posts, but none of them contain much own thoughts, it's mostly just short stuff about everything going on.
- Always has an opinion that corresponds well with what others have already said.
- Applies light pressure often, but rarely follows through. Doesn't push his reads hard.
- Tends to ask other people for their opinion rather than voicing his own thoughts.
- As the number of players dwindles, he starts providing more content and more own thought. Probably because it's harder to just blend in.
Here are Snarfs' post game thoughts:
On June 20 2012 07:14 Snarfs wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Rest of his post] +GG guys. Thanks to the hosts  . First scum game and I was not kidding when I said it was way more stressful for me than town T_T. I kept looking back at things I was saying and kicking myself for saying them. Wish I could have done better, but I already feel like this experience will help my future scum play... that's kinda why I just wanted the game to end, time to move on and do better in the next one! Artanis, you were way too damn towny. Stop that! But I don't know why you guys convinced yourselves I wasn't scum based on my meta. I'd never played scum before... there was no meta to compare  . Ghost properly calling out the fact that I'd asked people for previous games but never referenced them was one of those "Oh fuck" moments for me. Fortunately, noone else brought that up again... Hyaach, sorry for pushing your lynch when you'd done nothing scummy. I actually felt really bad T_T. I'm not cut out for scum life haha. Anyways, fun game nonetheless. Thanks again wbg, HiroPro and ET.
I compared Snarfs' play in EMM (where he was scum) to his play in WoF MM (where he was a vigilante), and I found some differences:
- He seems to be willing to post more as town. He had a 2,5 page filter in EMM (excluding post game stuff) despite surviving until N5. In WoF he had a 4 page filter even though he got killed during N3.
- His posting seems more condensed as mafia. He posts about a couple of subjects at once and only makes short remarks, whereas as town, he seems to be more focused in his posting.
- Less interrogative questions as town than as mafia. (Although he still poses a fair amount of questions.)
- Way stronger scum reads as town. Look at this post that he submitted before getting shot to death. He didn't post anything that even remotely resembles this post during EMM.
I think that it's too early to guess his alignment based on meta in this game, but his play looks more like his town meta to me. The way he presents his case on Zephirdd doesn't seem like his conservative scum play in EMM. However, it could just be him adapting his scum play according to his post game thoughts in EMM, which makes me quite uncertain.
Conclusion: Snarfs is still a null tell to me. I spent one hour researching his meta, but it didn't make me any more certain on his alignment. ._.
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@prplhz's case
If you cared to look up EMM, you'd see the exact same pattern. I am usually quite hesitant with lynches unless I got a strong scum read, and I don't put my vote down right off the bat. I don't use my vote like VE does. I wait until I'm content to vote for someone, and then I put my vote and let it be, barring any major events. Like I said, if you actually cared to read my previous game, you'd understand that I play this way.
This part of your case is also interesting:
On June 27 2012 04:40 prplhz wrote:
Next is the current marvellosity wagon, we talked about it for ages but he is hesitant with his vote. He only votes after Probulous makes his big case. Earlier he said that the question-answer-thing was a bit scummy but it wasn't worth lynching marvellosity over, but now he is using that very same argument for voting for marvellosity! I also think it's very telling that he is actually saying that marvellosity is scum for saying that his own behavior is town. Why would any townie ever say that his own play is scummy when it is townie by definition? Townies think that everything they do is the towniest shit ever (even when it isn't which is surprisingly often).
I'd like you to point out just where I said that. What I really said was "You acted scummy by not answering Mattchew's question straight. The way I see it, you have no reason whatsoever to not answer the question as honestly and precise as you can as town.". I never even mentioned anything pertaining to lynching marvellosity in this post, and before that I hadn't even commented on him. You're also twisting my words when you say that I'm that marvellosity is scum for saying that his own behavior is town. I said that it was scummy that he somehow turned his anti-town behaviour into some proof that he was town.
This part is such an overexaggeration that it's almost scummy.
On June 27 2012 04:40 prplhz wrote:
He is also keen to point out how tired and drunk he is all the time, like he's trying to apologize for his play. Scum are a lot more prone to apologize for their game because, unlike townies, they're not actually trying their best and they don't see their game as inherently good!
I have two posts relating to this: here and here. They are also referencing the same day (today), and since chose to not sleep the previous night and instead stay up to read and comment on Probulous case, it's certain that it's not just some bullshit excuse. The only point of your case that is actually factual, and not some kind of twisting of my words or overexaggeration to make me look scummy, is that I said it's probably too late to sway the lynch. I don't think that's very strange considering that almost all discussion today has been on marvellosity, and not one strong case has been presented on any other player. Other than marvellosity, most players seem to disagree on lynch targets.
If you want to lynch me based on my hesitance on the marvellosity lynch, then go ahead, but don't come with bullshit lies in order to paint me up as scum.
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I'm still around. If we have enough people, I'd be up for a Mattchew lynch.
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I'm up for another one hour. Let's make this happen.
##Unvote
##Vote Mattchew
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We don't have enough people to lynch prplhz. His vote can be explained by him ensuring the lynch, but it's still a bit strange.
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Does prplhz come off as pro-town to you?
Because he doesn't to me, and VE said that prplhz usually looks incredibly towny when he plays town. I'm starting to believe that he is scum... It's mostly just OMGUS and meta, but still.
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That's actually quite strange. It doesn't really appear as though VE was convinced by Mattchew's posts either:
On June 27 2012 12:45 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 15:07 Mattchew wrote:On June 25 2012 12:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
What the fuck
Truth + Show Spoiler [Probulous post] +On June 25 2012 14:40 Probulous wrote:MattchewYou started the whole Marvel thing and given his incredibly vague response why is this all you have to say about him Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 13:42 Mattchew wrote:On June 22 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:22 Mattchew wrote:Hi All, I want MrZentor dead. On June 22 2012 07:16 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Let's try and figure out a way to figure out if we're town right here and right now...
:/
Because it's going to help me a lot if I can trust you. I now know you're a fucking beast as scum. What do you suggest? you may quiz me and i will answer your questions. Marv, if you were to pick out the differences in your scum play and your town play, what would you point to? I like this question a lot. I think there are a couple of possible tells. But tell me what you think first. I dislike this answer greatly. The entire reason I asked was because of how strong your scum play has been recently, and that seemingly no-one (especially in this game) could finger you as scum. I was looking for an answer that would leave me with things to hold you accountable for. Instead, you dodge the question completely. On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 22 2012 09:42 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote::OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! On May 30 2012 06:16 marvellosity wrote:On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input.
:/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? This is the second misrepresentation. Trying to compare a 'defence' in a game where I wasn't accused to my defence this game where I am in fact accused First misrepresentation: On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote:
here's a clue
count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV
see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat
compare to current situation
profit On June 22 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous, what did you see when you went back and read Magic? When I went back, all I saw was a completely different opening strategy. I mean, he could just be doing a fast-expand or something, but it's looking kinda cheesy to me. :/ I clearly said what I was referring to in Magic and yet you try to pretend that you went and looked and didn't find anything. Despite the fact I said exactly what I was referring to. I "pretend" that I went and didn't find anything? I went and looked and I said EXACTLY what I found. I don't care about you wanting to shoot NT, nothing similar has happened this game to compare it to. When I went back, I found what I was looking for - you acting like a townie. You haven't done that this game. When I went and looked at your scum game, I found something there too - you defending yourself needlessly with meta . You HAVE done that this game. These aren't misrepresentations, they're observations I'm making. If you don't like it, STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO GO READ YOUR PREVIOUS GAMES. I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum. I don't like your grasping at straws to use "im smarter than doing something so scummy" as a defense. If you knew it would look scummy, why would you do it? It serves no town purpose to act willfully scummy. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 04:10 Mattchew wrote:On June 23 2012 02:36 Snarfs wrote:Also, I'm still waiting for Mattchew to come back and explain this: On June 22 2012 15:23 Snarfs wrote:
Mattchew, you claim that you had hoped that marv would write down some things that he does as mafia so that you can hold him accountable, yet it just appears as though the most likely thing that will happen is, if marv is scum, he will become more cognisant of his flaws as mafia and be more likely to attempt to avoid them. It seems like you didn't fully think that question through. I figured that of all people he would have more insight as to his differences and tells in his scum/town play, he would have the most information. It was extremely early in the game and was what I thought a good time to go into a self meta analysis that if he were town, he would gladly bestow upon us the things that he would use to set himself apart from scum. Instead, he sidesteps the question completely, not leaving us with anything to hold him accountable or help us get a read on him. Then he says that he knew this answer would be viewed as scummy, which if something is scummy, it is anti-town. I don't see why he would post like that knowing it would not help town. From my reading it sounds like you think he is scum. You are certainly not happy with his reply. Which begs the question, if you are unhappy with his response but don't bother writing up a case, why ask the question? In fact you have nothing else to say about marvel at all. Then when you do push a case it is this terrible excuse for a vote on rastaban Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 04:10 Mattchew wrote:On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote:
Second, the focus of Marv makes me think of karma after seeing him do it to Gonzaw in our last game together. We need to be careful with tunneling though, when you push someone so hard day1, they will often come across as scum no matter what since the only content you have is them trying to defend themselves against accusations. He could be scum but I just want to say that we need to be cautious, as I feel the case against him is a bit biased. Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate but I feel like there is too much discussion on him this early in our day. Remember we have 48 hours, half that time hasn't even passed yet so I don't like the band wagoning on Marv so quickly.
That said I have a hard time getting anything from his filter right now. Some people analyze best when their quarry is under pressure but for me that introduces too many variables so I like to read posts where they aren't defending themselves. So marv would you mind answering the original question ( as leading as it may be) about what you feel are your tells, and second who do you feel is most likely scum? (big post by post case on Risk.Nuke that I am not quoting) On June 23 2012 03:47 rastaban wrote:
When I review MrZentor I see someone who hasn't contributed much, which, while scummy, isn't enough to lynch yet in my opinion.,Especially when he commits to delivering something tomorrow. I have seen players like Foolishness say the same thing so I am inclined to give him till tomorrow before I make my Judgment on him.
This all feels extremely middle of the road, I am ready to jump on a bandwagon but don't want to commit to anything scum play. He also contradicts himself about the talks about Marv, then contradicts his we have 48 hours post, by posting a case that he is pretty deadset on, about risk.nuke. Overall I just feel like Rastaban's posting has been flaky and his case on Risk is bad. To answer his question to the thread, I read his vote switch that he was not confident in a Marv lynch, and that he wanted to pressure a lurker with no content. Also, his first 30ish hour case doesn't take into account that Risk.nuke has played many many games before. ##Vote: rastaban Wishy washy and bad cases do not a scum make. Rastaban may be scum but if all he has done is be wishy-washy and push a bad case, he may be bad town as well. Of course you then jumped back onto your policy lynch of Zentor. What really confuses me is this Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 06:04 Mattchew wrote:On June 24 2012 04:54 prplhz wrote:Okay I wanted to write a case on Zephirdd last night but then I really had to sleep and I've been busy today but here we go. On June 22 2012 08:41 Zephirdd wrote:
This is a semi-closed setup. If there are 13 players, it's possible that 12 are medics and 1 is a scum. Of course that's retarded as fuck, but nothing is concrete and we shouldn't think "but it's not common to 2 of X" exist ever. at all.
In fact, we can't even confirm the existence of a SK until after the night phase.
I'm not sure about Millers instaclaiming. While it clears path for cops(as it's pretty obvious that they will show red), it also reduces the number of possible blues, making it easier for scum. At least what I understood from the setup is that Millers can't be blues.
If anything, Millers should be breadcrumbing and claiming in case a cop calls them guilty. For all other purposes, they should be *Vanilla*(unclaimed, aka. possible blue) to make it harder for mafia to shoot into blues. This is the post in question. People have already said that this is a bad plan and I agree with that. My problem isn't that he's suggesting a bad plan. it's that I think it comes from a scum perspective. Scum are much more likely to suggest plans that they think are bad for them. For scum, it doesn't really matter if millers claim or not but what Zephirdd focuses on is how it will make them confirmed green and not blue. Zephirdd thinks that that will narrow down the pool of potential blues that scum can shoot which will be a plus for scum. Townies would never focus on this because they don't really care about blues, they care about analysis and avoiding chaos and that's what miller claims will help them avoid. This is really the crux of my case but I'm going to write some more that might convince other people too. First Zephirdd is pretty suspicious about rastaban. Worst case ever into doesn't feel like your other games. He never does anything. Next he has an epiphany that VisceraEyes and marvellosity are scum and again he doesn't do anything about it. No vote, no push, no anything. He looks pretty convinced from what he is saying but he's not acting on it. In the end he jumps on the zentor wagon as the 9th voter, an ultra safe vote based off of two lines of analysis that has already been made several times by other people. What you guys think about this? what exactly are you trying to do with this? save your scum teammate zentor with a no-lynch? When prpl was the guy who started the whole thing. Your play is substandard mattchew. The only case you have pushed has been Rastaban which is not revealing at all. What happened the crazy bastard who fake claimed a hit in LV? Can I say "the weekend happened" (work into happy hour into NYC debauchery friday, graduation BBQ party saturday, NY Red Bulls game sunday)? Also, I fail to see how my thoughts on Rastaban are bad? Those reasons help push a scum agenda while showing a fear of posting in the thread. Prplhz's post on zeph came at a really suspicious time. He may as well have asked for a no-lynch because if his case had actually gained traction, thats what would of occurred considering the time and players available. I answered Snarfs question because it was asked of me. The discussion I believe had shifted away from Marv and he was no longer a lynch candidate. I don't believe that posting anything further about Marv would have helped town at that time. I will however be posting more on him in the next 24 hours while we discuss lynch candidates. I am attempting to post more concisely and be less annoying this game then usual due to complaints in past games. When I wake up tomorrow I want to do a big post explaining my scum reads. You may all hold me accountable for doing so and the reads that I present. For now I am going to sleep after a long weekend. Mattchew lynch is a go guys. On June 27 2012 12:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
If you're town, your death isn't necessarily the end of the game for town. Appeal to emotion AND fear simultaneously while you're at it.
I'm sorry if you're town, but I don't think you are. Get over it.
I wonder why he suddenly chose to unvote him.
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rastaban + prplhz scum, I'm uncertain on the rest.
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Did VK/xsksc get the chance of checking someone during N1? I'm asking because it appears as though VK posted during D1 and then disappeared. It's possible (even probable) that he did not submit a night action.
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All right, I guess I'll just have to accept WBG's answer, but I feel that not knowing this is unfair. We'd be certain that our cop used his night action if it wasn't for the replacement. I'd like to hear WBG's reasoning behind his choice, but this feels more fitting in the post game discussion, as it isn't really a mod question. Not knowing whether or not he used check sucks. ._.
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On June 28 2012 11:06 wherebugsgo wrote:
Think about it from this perspective (this is all I'll say on the matter):
If in a normal situation a cop died and didn't provide checks would you ask whether the cop used his actions? Obviously not.
So what difference is there in this situation? What does the knowledge that a cop used his action give you?
It's not like knowing that will tell you who he used his action on.
I'd be dead certain (unless the player is a mental case) that he used his night action. This means that I can look through his posts and try to discern who he checked. Now, being uncertain that he even checked someone, I can't do that. Anyway, this subject is more fit for post game discussion, but thanks for trying to explain your answer. I understand that it is a hard thing to do when you are the host of a game that is still going on. I'd be happy to hear more of your thoughts behind your decision once the game is over.
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My strongest scum read is rastaban. His first post (the overly cautious one) and his hilariously bad case on risk.nuke have already been examined thoroughly, and thusly I'll omit them from this post. I'll only say that I find them both quite scummy.
On June 23 2012 03:47 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 03:19 Snarfs wrote:On June 23 2012 03:08 rastaban wrote:
Wow, really surprised no one sees the vote switching without any reason at all not scummy. My case is misconstrued as "risk.nuke has not yet posted anything of value." That would be a case against
Also I never saw Sloosh's post as it took me far longer than 30 minutes to work up a case against risk. You know why ,because I don't throw accusations around wildly until I have convinced myself.
Last game as a doctor I had no gun and so I had to mafia reads and a town read but since it was my first game in a year and I was afraid that without a gun if I pushed too hard they would want me to shoot and out my role. Well no one seemed to care about my cases but me but in the end I was correct.
Day 1 of Bang Bang I posted this: "Meapak_Ziphh, your filter looked really bad last night tons of filler and no posts contributing to discussion, but you seem to be posting more like your normal self today. Mind explaining what was going on?" I actually had an entire case typed up like I just did for risk and yet I decided to go easy and let him slide, well guess what he was GF. If I had pushed for him like I thought I should have day 1 we might have outed GF immediately.
This game I am trying something different since I don't worry about having a gun, I am going to push my scum reads and try and save my town reads. If I get lynched for that, at least town gets a trail votes to follow that led up to it.
Sorry but this is so similar to bang bang's Gonzaw fiasco where everyone clamored about him being red while I thought the case against him was awful, he gets shot flips blue and since it was almost all townies pushing the lynch we started the next day clueless as to where to begin which is why I had to post the Cephiro case linked above to begin with. So yeah, I stand by thinking risk is our best candidate and want him lynched. I am putting forward someone who is actually scummy instead of the marv case where half of it is based on his reaction to a leading question. Why risk.nuke and not MrZentor? Can you demonstrate the differences you see which makes risk.nuke the more likely scum, in your opinion? Because I feel they have played a similar game up until now. When I review MrZentor I see someone who hasn't contributed much, which, while scummy, isn't enough to lynch yet in my opinion.,Especially when he commits to delivering something tomorrow. I have seen players like Foolishness say the same thing so I am inclined to give him till tomorrow before I make my Judgment on him. I feel like Nuke hasn't just been a null, like MrZentor, by not contributing, but that his actions further scum agendas. There are legitimate reasons a town player may not contribute day 1, but I can't find legitimate town reasons for Risks actions. His "lol, ok #1 scum response ##Vote: marvellosity" Seems like such a cop out to get a vote on marv, instead of finding for a reason himself or even investigating it. It is the combination of not contributing but still trying to push a lynch that I find very questionable and seperated him from MrZ. What does town gain by him voting Klaust later, but not mentioning why he is doing it? The huge time gap, is so strange as well. I can see not being caught up and posting a quick one liner, but to be aware enough that one of the players still needs to post, to take your vote off someone you said was scummy, and yet not take even a moment to say something seems strange to me. I would like to hear from him on these actions and why he did it, maybe I am missing something but I feel that his actions make him extremely suspicious.
So, what sets them apart is:
1. MrZentor has promised analysis (which is a null tell), while risk.nuke didn't.
2. risk.nuke's quite clearly unserious vote on marvellosity (null tell).
3. Somehow risk.nuke's play (i.e. posting some insignificant stuff early during D1, throwing an unserious vote on marv and pressure voting VK) "furthers scum agendas". What the fuck? He didn't even remotely influence the town in any way, and if lurking this early is furthering scum agendas, every player is scummy during early D1.
4. risk.nuke's pressure vote on VK, who had not yet said anything (null tell).
This is enough to make rastaban extremely suspicious of risk.nuke. To me it seems like scum trying really hard to paint someone up as scum.
In this post he says that he will try to push his scum reads, yet he switches his vote over to MrZentor without really pushing his case further (although I have to admit that it's quite hard when it sucks so hard that everyone disagrees with it). He says this:
"The reason I wanted to wait on on mr.Z untill tomorrow was because he stayed in, even after subbing out. now it isn't deffinate by any leas but it increases the likelyhood he got a blue or red role. I didn't mention this earlier because if he wasn't scum then it increased his chance of getting hit tonight. However I think his vote on marv after claiming both were probably town is pretty incriminating."
Some bullshit reasoning about MrZentor being red or blue and a voteswitch that doesn't make any difference to the lynch whatsoever, and this is enough for rastaban to stop pushing his best scum read. As slOosh later points out, there was also a whole 24 hour-period between MrZentor saying that they're both town and him changing his vote to marv. It's not really strange that he changed his mind during this period. It is also D1, which means that no reads are very certain (even likelier that MrZ changed his mind).
On June 24 2012 04:52 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 04:40 slOosh wrote:Yea I really think rastaban has a higher chance of flipping mafia than MrZentor. On June 23 2012 03:08 rastaban wrote:
This game I am trying something different since I don't worry about having a gun, I am going to push my scum reads and try and save my town reads. If I get lynched for that, at least town gets a trail votes to follow that led up to it.
On June 23 2012 23:23 rastaban wrote:On June 23 2012 19:34 marvellosity wrote:
Fairly happy with risk's recent contribution.
Had a look through Zentor's filter. His vote on me was the first time he mentioned me at all (other than the general 'how intense' comment), and worse it was in response to Zephirdd's comment about scum bussing. 'One of them has to die' - why? no reasoning.
I first got my anti-town read on Zentor in Bang Bang when he mysteriously lumped Toad into his list of scumreads without having previously mentioned him, because other people had done so. So pretty satisfied with where my vote is right now. I disagree about risk, he defended himself but didn't actually contribute yet. However I doubt I am going to get enough people to vote for him today. The reason I wanted to wait on on mr.Z untill tomorrow was because he stayed in, even after subbing out. now it isn't deffinate by any leas but it increases the likelyhood he got a blue or red role. I didn't mention this earlier because if he wasn't scum then it increased his chance of getting hit tonight. However I think his vote on marv after claiming both were probably town is pretty incriminating. He isn't doing what he said he would do - hold him accountable. He pushes risk saying that he is scummy, yet waits for risk to defend himself. When he does, all he doesn't comment on whether the defense is valid or not, but dismisses the whole thing and says risk still hasn't contributed. How is that pushing scum reads? He clearly still has one, but isn't pushing it. He is merely going with the flow and sentiment of town. Compare his play here to his play in Bang Bang, in which he is confident in what he says and isn't afraid to put out his thoughts. In this game there is more fluff and more references to games that don't really prove anything. Moreso, suspicions of him have been ignored several times, which indicates resistance. Vote rastaban. Guess what there is more than 1 mafia in this game o.O surprising huh. I still want risk lynched, but do you really think 6 other people are going to do that in the next few hours? No, because everyone seemed to want to discuss me instead of my case. And this game if we don't get 7 votes on someone then it is a no lynch which is very bad for town. Also if I stay on risk it doesn't say anything about my alignment if I am the only one. I think Zentor is currently the second scummiet player after risk. As I mentioned earlier his voting for someone who he thought wasn't scum pushed me from being neutral on him to him being likely scum. I felt his play only fit a red or blue player, I don't think he is blue now so red is most likely. Also staying on risk is the safe move it means regardless of the lynch results I am not responsible For the outcome.
Two problems with this post:
1. Jumping onto the MrZentor wagon without providing any sound reasoning doesn't really say that much about your alignment either. rastaban didn't play a major part in the lynching of MrZentor. He could be a bandwagoning scum just as well as a bandwagoning townie.
2. This is scum thinking (the bolded part). He is trying not to look suspicious (keep in mind that he already knows that MrZentor will flip town). He is trying to appear pro-town by saying that he can be held accountable for lynching a townie. (He wasn't even responsible for the lynch anyway.)
Then we have rastaban's follow-up on risk.nuke's defense/analysis. I'll put it in a spoiler to reduce the size of my post. My comments are in bold (open the nested quotes).
+ Show Spoiler +On June 25 2012 07:39 rastaban wrote:Well it was ignored day 1, but perhaps with more information available to us now you will see that I was correct in my original annalysis. I will start with his post responding to my original post. Show nested quote +On June 23 2012 10:15 risk.nuke wrote:So my first thought is what two players are yelling the loudest at eachother. It's Vicera and Marv. So naturally my first assumption would be to remove both of those from my day 1 lynch pool. While Vicera doubtlessly seems like the towniest townie ever towned marv seems a bit scummy. Partly because how his inabillity to see how Vicera is town. Anyway lets go to Rastaban, I'm sort of writing this on the fly out of lazyness so I still haven't decided who I want dead the most yet. + Show Spoiler [Rastaban Says] +On June 23 2012 00:31 rastaban wrote:I would like to put forward a new actor into the spotlight who I feel doesn't want this movie finished. One risk.nuke! This fellow looks shady to me and he must have gotten Kirsten Stewart for his actor for the poor job he has done hiding his distain for our movie. Check it out: Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:28 risk.nuke wrote:
Well Zentor started out very strong but then his activity dropped which is all-in-all a scumtrait.
He spends half of his posts unnecessarily defending himself and the other half is useless 1-worders. I would very much like him to come here and explain himselves. Seeing how he can be one of the largest postcount in this game and have said so little of significance. This is his most rounded and contributing post... And it is a joke post. Next we get this gem: Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:52 risk.nuke wrote:
While I agree Zentor is a scourge to have on the gamefield I don't think we should kill him to be rid of him. That's not the way. As for now I want to hear from more players. Not much here, he defends Z but against an attack that was never going to happen anyway so a null read on this one Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 07:57 risk.nuke wrote:On June 22 2012 07:53 Snarfs wrote:
I have a great idea guys:
Let's lynch Probulous so that we immediately know which team is going to lose, then whoever is on that team can just forfeit and we all save a ton of time!
##Vote Probulous! what? What a quality contribution, but after wanting to hear more from players he certainly doesn't add anything himself or even push this thought further. The original post was a joke regarding probs penchant for losing lately but risk doesn't follow up to even find that out. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:03 risk.nuke wrote:
I say we lynch zephirdd on account of not realising we're past fun-time. Wants to lynch zeph but like most bad actors he says the lines but doesn't have his actions (vote) match up to his words. He doesnt want to have the case lead back to him, and until more people have joined in he holds his vote. Perhaps you might think he is an actor who values life and is very conservative with his voting habits, but you will soon see that is not the case. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:55 risk.nuke wrote:
lol, ok #1 scum response
##Vote: marvellosity Now he gets crazy like Charlie Sheen, he now throws his vote onto the marv train, but he doesn't add anything to the arguments, he doesn't even mention agreeing with others but instead he bases his vote off one post. What was this incriminating post? Well I thought it must have been the dodge marv made or perhaps his posts where he says he is confidant he doesn't get lynched, but no it is this one. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:53 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 08:41 Zephirdd wrote:
This is a semi-closed setup. If there are 13 players, it's possible that 12 are medics and 1 is a scum. Of course that's retarded as fuck, but nothing is concrete and we shouldn't think "but it's not common to 2 of X" exist ever. at all.
In fact, we can't even confirm the existence of a SK until after the night phase.
I'm not sure about Millers instaclaiming. While it clears path for cops(as it's pretty obvious that they will show red), it also reduces the number of possible blues, making it easier for scum. At least what I understood from the setup is that Millers can't be blues.
If anything, Millers should be breadcrumbing and claiming in case a cop calls them guilty. For all other purposes, they should be *Vanilla*(unclaimed, aka. possible blue) to make it harder for mafia to shoot into blues. Thanks, I will pass this on to my scumbuddies immediately. Marv is showing how absurd it is to have millers breadcrumb so they can be saved later, and this post is the one risk decides justifies throwing the weight of his vote behind? I think he thought the risk train was gaining momentum and wanted to get on board. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 19:01 risk.nuke wrote:
##Unvote: marvellosity
##Vote: von Klaust II Here is his latest post, what!!!??? This is so out of the blue, he never says why he changes his mind, he doesn't even say why he votes for klaust though I am guessing inactivity. This is a huge throw away vote meaning nothing as he doesn't even ask for klaus to speak up. On top of that look at the time stamps, this occurs 10 hours after his Last post. So picture this, risk votes marv, 10 hours later he comes and votes klaust with no reasoning at all. Ahha, but what has changed? Well I and a few others have pushed for slowing down on tunneling marv, and he realizes that it might not happen. Prob mentions the lurkers need to get posting and names klaust as one of them, risk immediately votes for him. So he has 10 hours between his posts and apparently knows enough to change his mind on the marv lynch and that klaust hasn't posted yet and still we don't get even a single line of content from. This is a mafia mindset, all of hs targets are equally scummy since none of them are scum so he doesn't care about who gets lynched as long as it isn't them. Let's kick this sham of an actor off our set before he changes this movie from Signs into The Happening. ##Vote: risk.nuke There are alot of things I don't like in his so called analysis of me. Mainly because these posts were made right at the start of the game and were mostly just for getting up the activity and he complains how they are content-short. It should be obvious why it's impossible to make a case when you're the first player to talk. Oviously he doesn't approve of the case, and he says the posts were made right at the start of the game, so there was nothing to discuss. Only the first 2 posts fit this criteria and I pointed out they weren't applicable. What is else is that you will see nothing has changed since this point in his posting habitsAll these posts were made early D1, and you are still only bringing up null tells, so there really isn't more that he can say to defend himself. You're right in that he continues lurking quite hard, but both townies and scum can be lurky. Not picking up on posting might indicate that a player is mafia, but he might as well be a lazy townie. It's basically impossible to get an accurate read on them, which is why they're so dangerous to town.Second I think it favors town to lynch mafia rather then prioritizing people soley because they are unpleasant and that's what I said. How is it scummy? I didn't understand that inside joke that post seemed to be and I wanted Prob to come back and explain himself or post some more. Scum are sometimes a bit tense and scared to jump into the thread and zephirdd choose to jump in with some joke-post which I thought was suspicious. His entire, Oh the game has started "insert joke stuff here" felt in the spur of the moment like a condemnable lie. I voted marv because I though that was something a mafia would say when they thought the case against them was poor. Then lastly he's completely misinterpreting my voteswitch. This you probably don't know but I felt a bit annoyed because i realised that in my last games I've had an unstatisticly high ratio of misreads in the earlygame and I came to the conclusion that it's because I'm to lenient to lurkers. So I pressurevoted a guy who still hadn't joined us (but shortly after did~ heeyoo~) Anyway I didn't explain myself because I thought a pressurevote on a lurker was decent reasoning enough and it shouldn't had been so hard to figure out that was what I was doing without me spelling it out for you. Here he admits he is changing his play style and his reasoning is he is too lenient to lurkers, but he is lurking this whole game. I don't buy itThis is a slight scum tell. First one in your entire case against risk.nuke.+ Show Spoiler [Rastaban Says II] +On June 23 2012 03:08 rastaban wrote:
Wow, really surprised no one sees the vote switching without any reason at all not scummy. My case is misconstrued as "risk.nuke has not yet posted anything of value." That would be a case against
Also I never saw Sloosh's post as it took me far longer than 30 minutes to work up a case against risk. You know why ,because I don't throw accusations around wildly until I have convinced myself.
Last game as a doctor I had no gun and so I had to mafia reads and a town read but since it was my first game in a year and I was afraid that without a gun if I pushed too hard they would want me to shoot and out my role. Well no one seemed to care about my cases but me but in the end I was correct.
Day 1 of Bang Bang I posted this: "Meapak_Ziphh, your filter looked really bad last night tons of filler and no posts contributing to discussion, but you seem to be posting more like your normal self today. Mind explaining what was going on?" I actually had an entire case typed up like I just did for risk and yet I decided to go easy and let him slide, well guess what he was GF. If I had pushed for him like I thought I should have day 1 we might have outed GF immediately.
This game I am trying something different since I don't worry about having a gun, I am going to push my scum reads and try and save my town reads. If I get lynched for that, at least town gets a trail votes to follow that led up to it.
Sorry but this is so similar to bang bang's Gonzaw fiasco where everyone clamored about him being red while I thought the case against him was awful, he gets shot flips blue and since it was almost all townies pushing the lynch we started the next day clueless as to where to begin which is why I had to post the Cephiro case linked above to begin with. So yeah, I stand by thinking risk is our best candidate and want him lynched. I am putting forward someone who is actually scummy instead of the marv case where half of it is based on his reaction to a leading question. Not much here but I think it's safe to say it shouldn't take 30 minutes or more to analyse what very little I had written, come on, it's not many lines. Another key thing, he faults how long it took me but as you will soon see for thinking it only takes 30 min to argue a case he doesn't ever post one himself.Making this remark is certainly rude, and it could be interpreted as a slight scum tell, but it is mostly null. My last comments on this post by rastaban are at the bottom of the spoiler (after rastaban puts his vote on risk.nuke).In this post Rastaban makes sense. He supports the miller-must claim which is basic. Though I wouldn't award him town-points for agreeing. The second paragraph is more interesting to me. It shows that he knows how to be carefull with bandwagons. Which makes no sense at all that the next thing he does is he try to push me hard on exagerated and out-of-context reasoning. I think I'm done with rastaban but it's 3:15 now. Sorry T.B.C. tomorrow. He ends with T.B.C. tomorrow, but as you will see he never followed up with anything to help town from this point on. Let me lump he next few posts together. Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 01:49 risk.nuke wrote:
rastaban zephirdd and zentor, what are your thoughts on eachother? Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 01:53 risk.nuke wrote:
vonKlaust II what are your thoughts on the lynch? Instead of contributing any original thoughts at all to the conversation he sits around asking 1 line questions with no follow up. This is a perfect way for scum to hide as it doesn't require any original thoughts from them. Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 02:22 risk.nuke wrote:
There are a few hours left but it's starting to become time we worked up on a majority. I'm going to vote for Rastaban
##Unvote: von Klaust II
##Vote: Rastaban Again we have a vote, this time on me but what is missing? Any reasoning on why. His biggest reason is to start working on a majority, but at this point we already had or almost had one on Zentor, so why vote for me over zentor? I think he just wanted to spread out the mafia vote so they weren't all on one guy. Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 04:47 risk.nuke wrote:
Honestly I'm fine with both Zentor and Rastaban (Klaus aswell and maybe zephirdd), I'm feeling I prefer rastaban but I don't care enough to sway people one way or the other. Aslong as we have majority on one, This post is incredibly incriminating... he is fine with lynching 4 different people. He has yet to give a single reason on any of them but he finds all of them viable targets. To me this is the words of mafia and not a town player. Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 04:54 risk.nuke wrote:
Rastaban if you still think I'm scummy why haven't you bothered defending your case? Another post where he asks questions of other players and yet still adds 0 to the game himself. Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 04:58 risk.nuke wrote:
I agree completely prplhz those are thoughts I've felt about zephirdd aswell. Show nested quote +On June 24 2012 05:00 risk.nuke wrote:On June 24 2012 04:58 risk.nuke wrote:
I agree completely prplhz those are thoughts I've felt about zephirdd aswell. The Miller point and the VE+Marv=scum. Now he agrees with someone, and says he had been thinking the same thing. He uses past tense and yet why didn't he bring the accusation forward or say something but instead waited on others? He has already said it shouldn't have taken me 30 minutes to put a case together against him, and yet he is so busy he can't not only put a case together but not even add a single original thought this entire game. He hasn't added a single thing to this entire game, and his only time to post anything longer than a line or two was when he felt threatened. He promised to follow up but didn't, He was fine with lynching any of four people, never trying to narrow those results down to the right one because as scum he doesn't care who dies when they are townies.. ##Vote risk.nuke - Asking questions can be pro-town (when you do it VE-style), but I agree with you that it is a bit scummy to just ask questions while providing little content yourself.
- Him voting for you is a null tell. You make it appear scummy by assuming that he is mafia. He might as well just be a lazy townie.
- There is nothing wrong with being suspicious of four people, especially not during D1. It is a null tell.
After this he has one lenghty post (on Mattchew) along with some shorter posts. Nothing that really stuck out to me as either towny or scummy. He is uncertain about the marv/Mattchew lynch, but I can't really fault him for that. It was a difficult situation. I can't be arsed to examine it in detail at the moment, but I will take a more in-depth look at it tomorrow...
TL;DR: rastaban is scum.
##Vote rastaban
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@Snarfs
I'm not the SK. I tried to provoke risk.nuke into posting more by being aggressive, and that's why the post seems out of character. You're reading too much into it.
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On June 28 2012 21:40 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote:
yeah I don't know right now. I was too hasty yesterday with my answers.
I have to put in a monumental amount of effort to try to refocus my reads and with town's negligible chance of winning I'm struggling to find the motivation. Again I'm spamming like a baws, but obviously I will find the effort at some stage. Everyone seriously needs to help me with my questions and analysis, especially if it involves me.
Just kill rastaban. Refocus your reads tomorrow.
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prplhz your case is fucking shit. You didn't even bother responding to me when I pointed out that some stuff is your case is factually wrong.
@rastaban
Well, you are my #1 scum read at the moment, and you are comfortable lynching prplhz, and that makes me kind of wary...
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On June 29 2012 00:46 prplhz wrote:
But, you pointed out that it was factually wrong, or you pointed out that you were just drunk one night because of midsummer. What do you expect me to do respond to that? Do you expect me to try to prove that you weren't at midsummer or that you weren't drunk or whatever? There are still other (and much stronger points) in my case that I think are better than any other case in this game.
Now you're trying to infer my alignment through rastaban's actions. You can't do that. He could be pushing his town mate because he's wrong, he could be pushing scum because he's right, he could be pushing scum buddy for town credit, he could be pushing mislynch because he's scum. You can't do that and you're going to repeatedly fail if you insist on doing it.
All right, fair point. If I can't infer your alignment from rastaban's actions, then I am fine lynching you.
If you actually bothered to read my post on you, you'd see that the part about me being sleep drunk is not the point that I'm referring to.
It's the part in italics:
On June 27 2012 07:05 Shraft wrote:@prplhz's caseIf you cared to look up EMM, you'd see the exact same pattern. I am usually quite hesitant with lynches unless I got a strong scum read, and I don't put my vote down right off the bat. I don't use my vote like VE does. I wait until I'm content to vote for someone, and then I put my vote and let it be, barring any major events. Like I said, if you actually cared to read my previous game, you'd understand that I play this way. This part of your case is also interesting: Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 04:40 prplhz wrote:
Next is the current marvellosity wagon, we talked about it for ages but he is hesitant with his vote. He only votes after Probulous makes his big case. Earlier he said that the question-answer-thing was a bit scummy but it wasn't worth lynching marvellosity over, but now he is using that very same argument for voting for marvellosity! I also think it's very telling that he is actually saying that marvellosity is scum for saying that his own behavior is town. Why would any townie ever say that his own play is scummy when it is townie by definition? Townies think that everything they do is the towniest shit ever (even when it isn't which is surprisingly often). I'd like you to point out just where I said that. What I really said was "You acted scummy by not answering Mattchew's question straight. The way I see it, you have no reason whatsoever to not answer the question as honestly and precise as you can as town.". I never even mentioned anything pertaining to lynching marvellosity in this post, and before that I hadn't even commented on him. You're also twisting my words when you say that I'm that marvellosity is scum for saying that his own behavior is town. I said that it was scummy that he somehow turned his anti-town behaviour into some proof that he was town.
This part is such an overexaggeration that it's almost scummy. Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 04:40 prplhz wrote:
He is also keen to point out how tired and drunk he is all the time, like he's trying to apologize for his play. Scum are a lot more prone to apologize for their game because, unlike townies, they're not actually trying their best and they don't see their game as inherently good! I have two posts relating to this: here and here. They are also referencing the same day (today), and since chose to not sleep the previous night and instead stay up to read and comment on Probulous case, it's certain that it's not just some bullshit excuse. The only point of your case that is actually factual, and not some kind of twisting of my words or overexaggeration to make me look scummy, is that I said it's probably too late to sway the lynch. I don't think that's very strange considering that almost all discussion today has been on marvellosity, and not one strong case has been presented on any other player. Other than marvellosity, most players seem to disagree on lynch targets. If you want to lynch me based on my hesitance on the marvellosity lynch, then go ahead, but don't come with bullshit lies in order to paint me up as scum.
I am also curious about why you don't care about my play in EMM. Can't you see that my style of voting is exactly the same?
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On June 29 2012 00:46 marvellosity wrote:
how do you justify telling the only confirmed townie to not bother thinking about his reads until tomorrow?
It wasn't a very serious comment, you know. The serious part of it is that I want to kill rastaban.
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@rastaban
Can you explain to me why you took a bunch of null tells on risk.nuke, said they furthered scum agenda and pushed them as if they were blatant scum tells? Or do you still insist on them being actual scum tells?
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EPT
