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Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 09 2012 15:15 GMT
#1501
On July 10 2012 00:02 strongandbig wrote:
I recommend WBG since:
- If Zealos is scum we lose anyway since he'll have his combo, which even if it doesn't outright kill you it will give him enough life to outlast you until the mafia beast kills you
- If Zealos is town then the very LAST thing we want to happen is to bring him below the mafia beast threshhold, we need his combo tomorrow.

So attacking Zealos is a lose/lose, but since WBG is already below the mafia beast threshhold attacking him doesn't matter if he's town and it can only help if he's mafia since it will make it easier to kill him.

So as long as you don't kill him this turn I advocate attacking WBG.


You are telling me what I already said and what WBG came at with a huge attack. Why is WBG's defense against this plan bad? and why did you ignore his play here? What is it that he has said that is totally wrong and should be ignored?
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 09 2012 15:15 GMT
#1502
Since I ended up on a new page I'll make this easy for you: here is WBG's post.

On July 09 2012 13:40 WereBugs-Go wrote:
Okay thought things through and I think sacrificing at least one creature would be good strongandbig.
Not exactly, but kind of.

Here's why:
I thought this through A LOT and I can't think of big disadvantages or big advantages, however we would get a lot of information here. To get this straight, I don't think it hurts us and I don't think it will benefit us but with what prom has recently posted we desperatly need to get clarity in here and forcing everyone to sac stuff might end up revealing hidden mafia plans if there are any. We all got a pretty good idea at what people should be saccing if they are town however if we consider what they have and what would be best for town, however we might end up seeing weird stuff. I'm not really willing to get more into details here but there are several choices you can make for different people and I think we could easily break down things that way and get clarity about what people want to do this turn and not just want people say.
I still don't have an idea what's going on in Matt-land or Prom-land and I honestly don't think they're telling the truth.

On top of that we have Prom telling people "well we should waste our damage this turn because it doesn't matter". Prom says we're at Mylo and that's complete bullshit, we're not at Mylo, we're at Lylo right now.
Just read what he's postng most recently:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 09:24 Promethelax wrote:
On July 09 2012 09:06 Fulla wrote:
Strong already made it clear, he only wants me and Matt to die.

I did say these guys won't go along with that plan


Do note how niether of us will kill WBG. This attack doesn't hurt town because he is already below the mafia beast kill threshold but hurts scum if WBG is scum which I feel that he probably is.

If Matt is doing enough damage to WBG to bring him to the point where I could kill him I will instead attack Zealos to weaken him in case he is scum.

This is clear mafia agenda. He's basicly telling people to no-lynch and hold damage back, because after all "worst case" would be you wasted your damage on someone who is going to die either way, and telling you that's not bad at all and won't change a thing.
We're at lylo right now. Every point of damage might matter in the end and it's a race against the clock before the mafia beast kills the remaining townies. How is wasting damage in that scenario not something bad?
We need to kill Matt today to give ourselves another chance to stay in the game and we need to focus our damage on prom to give ourselves a chance to kill him off.

Here's the same post:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 09:07 Promethelax wrote:
You already know my thoughts on that, if you go for him I'll probably go after WBG with my follow up as well, if he is townie Mafia is already able to one shot him with their beast so it won't hurt us and if he is mafia weakening him helps a great deal.

He's not even talking about what he thinks about me. He says "well if he's town I derped and it doesn't matter because he's dead anyways and if he's mafia he's not". That's not an explanation to go after someone in lylo, we need every point of damage we can get and we need people to attack who they consider to be mafia and not some "well if he's town it won't hurt so I poke him instead".

Also check out how he completly changed targets over the past 48 hours. If I remember correctly the only reason he considered me to be a mafia is that I was fosing multiple people early on. Well newsflash, I did not know how is town and who is mafia before the game started. Reads change over the game and people are wrong. I ended up being wrong on Grey and I ended up being fooled by wifom badly.
But here's how reading people works: You have a somewhat bad idea early on. Usually you get a couple of green reads early on, maybe a couple of red reads but you're not sure at all, not on d1 and most times not on d2 as well although people keep saying otherwise to sound confident in their reads to make people follow them.
Most interesting is this fact: Reads start out weak and get better and better over the course of action.
Prom basicly said I am mafia because I was not certain about someone early on and attacked multiple people. Do you people really think that is something that mafias do? Or more importantly, do you think that is something townies don't do?
I can only speak for myself but I don't usually figure out 100% mafia by the end of d1 calling every single name without calling more names than having mafia in the game. Do you? So really there is no point in saying "Well toad is suspicious because he was suspicious of multiple people early on". If anything that's a fucking town tell because of course I'm not sure about my reads early on. If you would waltz in the thread telling people otherwise that sounds more confident that you should be and therefore you're either overconfident or mafia having more information.

As mentioned, reads start out shaky and with every day they should get better as you get more and more information about what's going on (unless of course you already have all the information needed, right prom? :p).
That's what's happening in camp-Toad. Reads were a little all over the place early on because I said I consider 4 people to be scummy d1 or possible mafias and now I'm certain it's got to be Matt and Prom. Again, Prom says that's something weird but it's really not at all, it's normal for people starting with no information and gaining more information to work with over the course of action.
Now on to the important part: Look at how proms reads are changing COMPLETLY over the course of 24 hours that late in the game. Prom however was the completly opposite here.
He said very little about reads early on when it should be easy to say at least something, he never really attacked someone and always keeps half of his stuff untapped for something and he suddenly chickens out like a mad mad.
He said I'm mafia and matt is mafia as well 24 hours ago. Now he's willing to attack Zealos instead, or even Fulla.
Way to go, it's Lylo with 5 people other than you alive "well I think those 4 might end up being mafia, but just maybe".

So really, I think we have all the prove we need to consider both Matt and Prom mafia at this point and should go all attack on them. However, I'd like to see s&b sacrifice one creature to check what Prom is doing as it's not changing a thing anyways. Is he going to sac his useless blocker or is he to afraid to sac something that can block fliers when Zealos has a 10/2 flier and instead sac something that actually could be used in a good way, aka attacking someone?

TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
July 09 2012 15:30 GMT
#1503
Waitaminute Promethelax, Mattchew was supposed to attack fulla... Now he's got an exuse to lurkedy-lurk and come in at the last second and attack someone...

And I don't understand what you want out of me when you're posting wbg's big case against you.

Anyway I don't give a shit at this point about the crappy cases everyone's made against each other.

Mattchew and Fulla need to die, and no one else.

Then we will have enough information to find out who the scum are.

"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
July 09 2012 15:32 GMT
#1504
Like, now that you've attacked Fulla, what is Mattchew going to do? If he's scum all he has to do is kill someone else and he wins.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 09 2012 16:34 GMT
#1505
On July 10 2012 00:30 strongandbig wrote:
Waitaminute Promethelax, Mattchew was supposed to attack fulla... Now he's got an exuse to lurkedy-lurk and come in at the last second and attack someone...

And I don't understand what you want out of me when you're posting wbg's big case against you.

Anyway I don't give a shit at this point about the crappy cases everyone's made against each other.

Mattchew and Fulla need to die, and no one else.

Then we will have enough information to find out who the scum are.


if i were to attack someone who would you like it to be
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
July 09 2012 16:54 GMT
#1506
Fulla
Or alternatively, Prome and WBG but neither of them for lethal damage
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
July 09 2012 16:55 GMT
#1507
Toad where you at? You're European right?
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
WereBugs-Go
Profile Joined June 2012
Korea (South)172 Posts
July 09 2012 17:01 GMT
#1508
On July 10 2012 01:55 strongandbig wrote:
Toad where you at? You're European right?

I'm here but as people apparently agree to play the "long game" and waste damage "because it's not hurting town if we attack someone who's already below mafia treshhold" in lylo I don't really see the point of posting anything right now.

If you guys think that not attacking mafia is anything but a straight up lose and you don't even realize that I won't be able to convince you anyways. So no idea what to do.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 09 2012 17:01 GMT
#1509
On July 10 2012 00:30 strongandbig wrote:
Waitaminute Promethelax, Mattchew was supposed to attack fulla... Now he's got an exuse to lurkedy-lurk and come in at the last second and attack someone...

And I don't understand what you want out of me when you're posting wbg's big case against you.

Anyway I don't give a shit at this point about the crappy cases everyone's made against each other.

Mattchew and Fulla need to die, and no one else.

Then we will have enough information to find out who the scum are.



Well fuck me...I did say I was going to do that and you should come and tell me if/why I shouldn't I link WBG's big case for one paragraph but, since I'm not scum, I didn't feel any need to hide the rest of it.

That one paragraph was:
This is clear mafia agenda. He's basicly telling people to no-lynch and hold damage back, because after all "worst case" would be you wasted your damage on someone who is going to die either way, and telling you that's not bad at all and won't change a thing.
We're at lylo right now. Every point of damage might matter in the end and it's a race against the clock before the mafia beast kills the remaining townies. How is wasting damage in that scenario not something bad?


If neither of Matt/Fulla are scum we lose. Because it will be 2v2. Your statement:
Mattchew and Fulla need to die, and no one else.

Then we will have enough information to find out who the scum are.

bothers the fuck out of me, if that was a scum slip I'm going to punch myself in the face for already declaring attacks.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
July 09 2012 17:03 GMT
#1510
We have a double lynch mylo.

I'm aiming for us to be at 2-1 tomorrow. I think that's the best situation Town can hope for right now, unless you want to just guess at the scum team.

What are you saying should happen? You think we should be trying to kill off Prome as well this turn?
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
July 09 2012 17:05 GMT
#1511
On July 10 2012 02:01 Promethelax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2012 00:30 strongandbig wrote:
Waitaminute Promethelax, Mattchew was supposed to attack fulla... Now he's got an exuse to lurkedy-lurk and come in at the last second and attack someone...

And I don't understand what you want out of me when you're posting wbg's big case against you.

Anyway I don't give a shit at this point about the crappy cases everyone's made against each other.

Mattchew and Fulla need to die, and no one else.

Then we will have enough information to find out who the scum are.



Well fuck me...I did say I was going to do that and you should come and tell me if/why I shouldn't I link WBG's big case for one paragraph but, since I'm not scum, I didn't feel any need to hide the rest of it.

That one paragraph was:
Show nested quote +
This is clear mafia agenda. He's basicly telling people to no-lynch and hold damage back, because after all "worst case" would be you wasted your damage on someone who is going to die either way, and telling you that's not bad at all and won't change a thing.
We're at lylo right now. Every point of damage might matter in the end and it's a race against the clock before the mafia beast kills the remaining townies. How is wasting damage in that scenario not something bad?


If neither of Matt/Fulla are scum we lose. Because it will be 2v2. Your statement:
Show nested quote +
Mattchew and Fulla need to die, and no one else.

Then we will have enough information to find out who the scum are.

bothers the fuck out of me, if that was a scum slip I'm going to punch myself in the face for already declaring attacks.


It's true that we lose if neither of matt or fulla are scum. I went over this at length with toad and fulla yesterday.

The thing is, the only scenarios in which neither of those two are scum are:
- Zealos is scum, in which case we lost already and everyone but me is an idiot; since we've already lost in that scenario, I'm ignoring it.
- You and WBG are a scum team together, which I find incredibly unlikely.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 09 2012 17:25 GMT
#1512
okay so with six of us left here are all the possible scum teams:

S+B/WBG
S+B/Zealos
S+B/Matt
S+B/Me
S+B/Fulla

Fulla/Matt
Fulla/Me
Fulla/Zealos
Fulla/WBG
Matt/WBG
Matt/Me
Matt/Zealos

Zealos/Me
Zealos/WBG

WBG/Me

So ignoring Zelaos since we have already lost if he is scum (which actually isn't true since he just wrecked his HP stock) and all the combos with Matt or Fulla in them since they are dead this turn we have three left:

Me and WBG
You and Me
You and WBG

Since I know that I am town the only situation where this would be an instant win for scum is if you/WBG are scum together. (not counting all the Zealos pairs) so why would leaving you alive make sense? You claim it is so that one of you/WBG gets killed by the mafia beast, right? Fuck...

...I guess at this point I have to play along and hope that you are town.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 09 2012 17:26 GMT
#1513
Oh, notation in the above: Italics include Fulla/Matt, Underline includes Zealos, Bold includes neither.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Artanis[Xp]
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Netherlands12973 Posts
July 09 2012 17:26 GMT
#1514
Just to be clear: The deadline will be extended by 15 minutes in case of the usage of an activated ability at the last second. This will not be the case with changes in whom players attack.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 09 2012 17:30 GMT
#1515
s&b do you mind if I attack you? surely if you are town scum will kill you considering you are the only one beast can hit and if you are scum, you wont kill yourself?
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 09 2012 17:35 GMT
#1516
I think the beast will be able to 1-hit WBG too
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 09 2012 17:36 GMT
#1517
On July 10 2012 02:35 Promethelax wrote:
I think the beast will be able to 1-hit WBG too

your right, woops
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 09 2012 17:37 GMT
#1518
prom thoughts on were i should attack?
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
July 09 2012 17:38 GMT
#1519
Although I think weakening WBG to a point where he is killable by a player not in control of the mafia beast would be good in case he is mafia.

S+B agrees with me, WBG thinks I am retarded.

I'd love to hear your opinions on it Matt.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 09 2012 17:40 GMT
#1520
actually i think i am going to attack fulla too, just in case the unlikely event that you are his teammate planning on last minute switching
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
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