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On June 15 2012 12:08 gonzaw wrote:I sure got those vibes when you said this: Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 11:56 GreYMisT wrote:On June 15 2012 11:52 gonzaw wrote:On June 15 2012 11:34 GreYMisT wrote:On June 15 2012 11:15 gonzaw wrote:
Oh people, another thing:
Beware of who scum push. Scum HAVE to lynch the SK at some point, and I doubt they'll be happy leaving him alive forever and let him be the last lynch since if they ever get to close to victory he can shoot into them.
So I think that scum may have started to or may start to push for a SK lynch (as in, they genuinely believe someone is SK and are pushing for his lynch, they could always be wrong about who they believe is SK though).
I dunno why but my gut feeling says that's what's happening with Wiggles/other people pushing chaoser.
But like I said, I'll reread things later so take this with a grain of salt it's just a hunch. Ask yourself, what purpose does discussing this serve Finding the SK, what else? yea but the majority of this post isnt about finding the SK. Sure it looks that way, but really you are saying that scum want the SK dead. news flash, scum want us all dead. No...scum don't instantly know who the SK is...but they need to find him, and they do need to get him lynched afterwards. When we lynch some scum in the future, we can use this info to see who he was pushing..and if we find he was legitimately pushing someone with good reasons, then that guy is probably SK (or is probably the guy they thought was SK). You are still dodging the issue, what do you think of this Hes flip? (and why start this semi-pointless argument?)
I told you? You are assuming too much can be read from too little.
And hes flipped VT, which means I was wrong, which means he thought that VE was scum, changed his mind, and wasnt here at all to contribute.
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On June 15 2012 13:16 gonzaw wrote:
Yeah, you say that so casually that it looks like a normal Thursday.
Wife-"Hey honey! How was your day!"
Husband-"Oh, hes flipped VT, which means I was wrong, which means he thought that VE was scum, changed his mind, and wasn't here at all to contribute, you know, the usual stuff"
Really dude? Like, he just flipped VT and you have nothing else to say? How about it completely changing your reads? How about the flip making you desperate because you know tomorrow is LYLO and we need to catch scum fast?
How about it phasing you at all in any way?
Do you want me to flip my shit?
He flipped VT, it is what it is, I will reevaluate.
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On June 15 2012 14:20 gonzaw wrote:
I want you to react.
Any townie whose FoS just flipped VT would at least feel something and would at least start to think differently.
What are your immediate thoughts right now? Like, what is the first thing that crossed your mind when you saw him flip? "Damn I was sure X was town but now I think he may be scum" perhaps?
Or "Okay, doesn't matter I already I thought X was a little bit suspicious so now I can still have a coherent scum team and I don't need to change my reads too much" ?
Or maybe "AOJALKD WTF??? Okay I give up" ?
You are just acting like you don't even care about his flip...or like you expected it.
It was cute day 1, now its just old
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Wiggles worries me, VE, and I actually also get the feeling gonzaw is the SK (I think i mentioned this earlier). Dont have too much behind it, but i imagine the SK this game would be completley unafraid of death, allowing him to appear as townie as possible. Couple this with the fact that gonzaw has tried to start SK hunts, meaning it would be less likely he would be singled out as one if he were leading the charge.
Radfield strikes me as town, as does VE. As aforementioned Gonzaw is either town or the SK. BB is more town to me than wiggles, who is moderatly scummy to me. Chaoser is a mystery to me, prp will have to do really good tomorrow. Palmar worries me. People have mentioned his lackluster cases today, and I agree. The palmar I am used to seeing completely dominates the game, has very strong opinions, and gets his way. This palmar is not only completley different, but different in a scummy way.
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On June 16 2012 01:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
What worries you about Wiggles? You spent a fair amount of time explaining why you're worried about Palmar and none explaining what worries you about Wiggles.
Just something about the way he is posting. Large posts that cover a lot of topics and go in a lot of directions at once bother me.
Not my strongest scumread, but meh
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On June 16 2012 02:37 prplhz wrote:
Hey
After Liar Game I decided never to join another invite game. I simply feel outclassed because I'm simply outclassed. But then you guys needed a replacement and chaoser already had a 2 page filter and it was [M][N] so I thought what the hell. This means that I'm just going to post whatever I feel like and if some (or all) of it is dumb then you can just kiss my derriere.
chaoser had a 2 page filter and he was vanilla townie. If you look hard enough then you should be able to see that. It's going to take a while before I can get a 2 page filter and expecting me to appear hyper townie on day1 (well, my day1) is pretty silly.
Think we're at night 2 so I should have a good 48 hours to read the thread and form some reads. Expect anything more from me and you're going to be disappointed. If you really feel that chaoser was scum then I can only tell you to read his filter again or be wrong.
Doesnt matter if its 2 pages of filter if it has nothing in it.
Just give us something, as opposed to making preemtive excuses.
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On June 16 2012 03:55 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 01:17 GreYMisT wrote:
Wiggles worries me, VE, and I actually also get the feeling gonzaw is the SK (I think i mentioned this earlier). Dont have too much behind it, but i imagine the SK this game would be completley unafraid of death, allowing him to appear as townie as possible. Couple this with the fact that gonzaw has tried to start SK hunts, meaning it would be less likely he would be singled out as one if he were leading the charge.
Radfield strikes me as town, as does VE. As aforementioned Gonzaw is either town or the SK. BB is more town to me than wiggles, who is moderatly scummy to me. Chaoser is a mystery to me, prp will have to do really good tomorrow. Palmar worries me. People have mentioned his lackluster cases today, and I agree. The palmar I am used to seeing completely dominates the game, has very strong opinions, and gets his way. This palmar is not only completley different, but different in a scummy way. Although I like people thinking I'm SK for now (hopefully scum don't shoot me tonight because of it  ), I don't think the SK would be too confident in being "invincible" at night, since if he's too pro-town there's like 80% chance scum will shoot him at night, revealing his identity to them. "Wiggles worries me"
"Chaoser is a mystery to me"
"Palmar worries me"So.....anything conclusive to say? At least from gut feeling? Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 19:08 Radfield wrote:
Gonzaw, I think you're grasping at straws with the Greymist thing. Do you think Greymist is town? What do you people think about lynching Wiggles tomorrow?
You seemed to fail to read what came after "Palmar worries me"
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On June 16 2012 04:18 gonzaw wrote:
That's not conclusive, I didn't see you calling him scum.
I said he was different "IN A SCUMMY WAY." God you're getting old
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On June 16 2012 07:49 iGrok wrote:
If the post is a bit late, im in a lol game.
Still 1:10 until day
Are you Ezreal?
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I didn't think Rad was scum, but then VE flipped town and I reread day 1, looking for instances where people interacted with VE. In particular I focused on the time after Hes made his case.
Radfield said the following regarding the case on VE made by Hesmyrr:
On June 11 2012 08:03 Radfield wrote:
I really like that.
This is why you need to play more often Hesmyrr.
On June 12 2012 06:11 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 06:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also BB's case is good, I have to go and will be out for the rest of the day and there's nothing quiet like dat omgus.
##Vote: Palmar It's actually not that good. But it IS a good effort. There is a decent case to be made on VE, but I want to finish filtering first.
A period of time passed, and it became apparent that VE would not be the lynch of the day, and that it would either be me or MZ. Radfield says this:
On June 12 2012 07:39 Radfield wrote:
This isn't going to work. Cue the VE 'I told you so' dance.
I don't have the ability to make a coherant case in this amount of time and I misread one of VE's posts that made it go from scummy to normal. VE doesn't even look that bad upon rereading. I'm happy to explain what I was seeing, but it doesn't make a difference right now.
I prefer a MZ lynch over Palmar.
What I would like to bring to everyone's attention is how this post happened after it became apparent that the VE lynch wasn't going to work. From my point of view a town player who thought VE was scum would have made a case (something rad actually never did at all). Instead what Rad did was sit back and watched if the VE lynched gained steam, and then covertly swapped off of it.
The more I read into radfield, the more I see the delayed promises for contribution and the careful steps to see which lynch is safe.
Rad, we have waited long enough.
##Vote: Radfield
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On June 16 2012 10:19 gonzaw wrote:
Greymist, answer me this:
Why was VE killed instead of me?
Is there anything that catches your eye or something? Like scum trying to kill VE because he was onto something, or WIFOMing about it and trying to misdirect town?
Why wouldn't they kill me? Because I was on the wrong track or perhaps because they thought I was SK?
Or perhaps because they wanted to push my lynch in the future? (I doubt this).
Grey, would you want a Palmar lynch today or not? What about Wiggles?
You cannot cannot cannot (usually) cannot analyize night kills. Mafia are making decisions that they know will be analyized by others, thus WIFOM exists. they could have killed VE because he was on the exact wrong track, and they wanted us to think he was onto something. We cannot know, and cannot assume things. VE is dead. thats it.
What we have to do is look at the past, actions that have already happened, knowing that VE is 100% confirmed.
I want a radfield lynch atm. thats why i voted him. I will have my second target for scum when I have put more together.
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On June 16 2012 10:32 gonzaw wrote:
You can certainly analyze night kills...although you can't really use them as evidence for anything.
The way you can usually use them is like this:
"I think X,Y,Z,etc are scum, do night kills contradict that? If so then it's likely they are not the scumteam; if not then it doesn't really tell me anything, but it doesn't contradict it.
However...there are times where some night kills do seem odd (like VE one last night, at least from my POV). Perhaps it doesn't tell you anything about exactly why scum did it...but I think it can tell you something about scum's "comfort" in the game and their "versatility" in a manner of speaking.
Basically, if a night kill happens and you don't seem to really understand it, it most likely means that perhaps scum are content and comfortable (for instance, in Newbie IV me/Ceph/etc as scum just night killed suspicious people because we were trolling town, and because we were pretty comfortable, even though the kill itself wouldn't say anything in particular about the game).
That's what I believed happened with the Ace kill, and what I believed happened with the VE kill as well, from my POV, which I think means that scum are comfortable and using their shots just to induce WIFOM/create chaos/just get rid of annoying people, and not because they are shooting people that are on the right track and are a danger to them.
I may be overanalyzing it, but that thing made me reconsider my reads (again >_> ), and I think Palmar has a great chance of flipping scum because of it (a Palmar scum would be pretty comfortable this game).
Thoughts on this?
Palmar has been absent since he cast his vote on Radfield like 30 hours ago or something, do you think he'd act like this as town?
You are overanalyizing it. I played a game where I just killed a random person as scum, and town screwed themselves for an entire day trying to figure out why.
I already mentioned my suspicion of Palmar, we talked about it remember? Now, however, I feel I have more concrete material on Radfield.
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On June 16 2012 10:44 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 10:37 GreYMisT wrote:On June 16 2012 10:32 gonzaw wrote:
You can certainly analyze night kills...although you can't really use them as evidence for anything.
The way you can usually use them is like this:
"I think X,Y,Z,etc are scum, do night kills contradict that? If so then it's likely they are not the scumteam; if not then it doesn't really tell me anything, but it doesn't contradict it.
However...there are times where some night kills do seem odd (like VE one last night, at least from my POV). Perhaps it doesn't tell you anything about exactly why scum did it...but I think it can tell you something about scum's "comfort" in the game and their "versatility" in a manner of speaking.
Basically, if a night kill happens and you don't seem to really understand it, it most likely means that perhaps scum are content and comfortable (for instance, in Newbie IV me/Ceph/etc as scum just night killed suspicious people because we were trolling town, and because we were pretty comfortable, even though the kill itself wouldn't say anything in particular about the game).
That's what I believed happened with the Ace kill, and what I believed happened with the VE kill as well, from my POV, which I think means that scum are comfortable and using their shots just to induce WIFOM/create chaos/just get rid of annoying people, and not because they are shooting people that are on the right track and are a danger to them.
I may be overanalyzing it, but that thing made me reconsider my reads (again >_> ), and I think Palmar has a great chance of flipping scum because of it (a Palmar scum would be pretty comfortable this game).
Thoughts on this?
Palmar has been absent since he cast his vote on Radfield like 30 hours ago or something, do you think he'd act like this as town? You are overanalyizing it. I played a game where I just killed a random person as scum, and town screwed themselves for an entire day trying to figure out why.I already mentioned my suspicion of Palmar, we talked about it remember? Now, however, I feel I have more concrete material on Radfield. Exactly my point. Why would you kill a random person as scum? Because you are comforable in the gameIf your whole scum team was gunned down by 1 townie for instance, and he was systematically slaying all of you each day, you wouldn't shoot a random player would you? If you did it would heavily play against you unless you were a real smooth-talker, it would still be risky as hell. For instance, if you and Wiggles were scumbuddies, I think you could have shot me last night, and you wouldn't shoot VE as hell considering he would most likely push a misslynch on Palmar or prplhz. If that was the case, then I doubt you guys were comfortable, which would mean that if you took a shot at night, you wouldn't make it to confuse town or just to improve your comfort, but to try to actually improve your chances at winning by shooting me. It's not set in stone and I won't use it as 100% proof of anything, but it made me say to myself "Wait, why did this happen? Maybe I should reread the thread with a clear head"Grey, do you still think Rad is scum...even though he's been active pretty much the whole game, has been in part of every discussion, tried to get people to post, seemed cheerful about it, and even recognized he was playing bad and tried to remedy it later with his case on Palmar and thoughts on other players? If so, what scum motivation do you find there? Do you think he may be acting similarly to another game of his as scum perhaps? (one that wasn't AC...I don't know which other game he was scum in >_> ).
Ironically, by your logic I should be asking "Why isn't rad dead yet?"
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On June 16 2012 10:44 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 10:37 GreYMisT wrote:On June 16 2012 10:32 gonzaw wrote:
You can certainly analyze night kills...although you can't really use them as evidence for anything.
The way you can usually use them is like this:
"I think X,Y,Z,etc are scum, do night kills contradict that? If so then it's likely they are not the scumteam; if not then it doesn't really tell me anything, but it doesn't contradict it.
However...there are times where some night kills do seem odd (like VE one last night, at least from my POV). Perhaps it doesn't tell you anything about exactly why scum did it...but I think it can tell you something about scum's "comfort" in the game and their "versatility" in a manner of speaking.
Basically, if a night kill happens and you don't seem to really understand it, it most likely means that perhaps scum are content and comfortable (for instance, in Newbie IV me/Ceph/etc as scum just night killed suspicious people because we were trolling town, and because we were pretty comfortable, even though the kill itself wouldn't say anything in particular about the game).
That's what I believed happened with the Ace kill, and what I believed happened with the VE kill as well, from my POV, which I think means that scum are comfortable and using their shots just to induce WIFOM/create chaos/just get rid of annoying people, and not because they are shooting people that are on the right track and are a danger to them.
I may be overanalyzing it, but that thing made me reconsider my reads (again >_> ), and I think Palmar has a great chance of flipping scum because of it (a Palmar scum would be pretty comfortable this game).
Thoughts on this?
Palmar has been absent since he cast his vote on Radfield like 30 hours ago or something, do you think he'd act like this as town? You are overanalyizing it. I played a game where I just killed a random person as scum, and town screwed themselves for an entire day trying to figure out why.I already mentioned my suspicion of Palmar, we talked about it remember? Now, however, I feel I have more concrete material on Radfield. Exactly my point. Why would you kill a random person as scum? Because you are comforable in the gameIf your whole scum team was gunned down by 1 townie for instance, and he was systematically slaying all of you each day, you wouldn't shoot a random player would you? If you did it would heavily play against you unless you were a real smooth-talker, it would still be risky as hell. For instance, if you and Wiggles were scumbuddies, I think you could have shot me last night, and you wouldn't shoot VE as hell considering he would most likely push a misslynch on Palmar or prplhz. If that was the case, then I doubt you guys were comfortable, which would mean that if you took a shot at night, you wouldn't make it to confuse town or just to improve your comfort, but to try to actually improve your chances at winning by shooting me. It's not set in stone and I won't use it as 100% proof of anything, but it made me say to myself "Wait, why did this happen? Maybe I should reread the thread with a clear head"Grey, do you still think Rad is scum...even though he's been active pretty much the whole game, has been in part of every discussion, tried to get people to post, seemed cheerful about it, and even recognized he was playing bad and tried to remedy it later with his case on Palmar and thoughts on other players? If so, what scum motivation do you find there? Do you think he may be acting similarly to another game of his as scum perhaps? (one that wasn't AC...I don't know which other game he was scum in >_> ).
LoTR mafia to answer your question.
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On June 16 2012 10:49 gonzaw wrote:
Because he isn't a threat to scum, and is a possible misslynch.
Like I said, that's what happened on "I am a Cop you Idiot!" Mafia, which is what made me rethink my "subcutaneous" (wut?) suspicion of him.
I knew the night kill would basically boil down to VE or me, but I thought I was more "apparent" townie than VE and I thought I was on the right track, meaning I thought I'd get instantly shot. But well we know the rest of that story.
Also Grey, answer that question, do you find Rad's specific behaviour scummy as well?
If i didnt, why would I be voting him?
Scum can appear peppy and active all they want. But rad has yet to contribute to a lynch, has not really pushed a candidate ever, just brought them up in passing, and continues to put off contributing.
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On June 16 2012 13:02 Radfield wrote:VE dying pushes more doubt on me. One, Palmars case against me rested on VE being obvious town, which he now most certainly is. Two, me not dying pushes suspicion on me as well, as technically I should be dead. I honestly would have been shocked if I'd been shot last night, and I expected Gonzaw to take a bullet. Thinking about it though, VE was almost universally seen as town, so his death makes sense by virtue of that alone. Show nested quote +
What I would like to bring to everyone's attention is how this post happened after it became apparent that the VE lynch wasn't going to work. From my point of view a town player who thought VE was scum would have made a case (something rad actually never did at all). Instead what Rad did was sit back and watched if the VE lynched gained steam, and then covertly swapped off of it.
The more I read into radfield, the more I see the delayed promises for contribution and the careful steps to see which lynch is safe.
Greymist, that is not how things went down. I did not simply put out VE's name and then sit back to see if it picked up steam. I read his filter, saw some things I didn't like, and mentioned that I thought he should be looked at closer. I then went and filtered every other player in the game(except Gonzaw) in an effort to find a good lynch. Read my posts at the end of Day 1. My thought process is clear, and I was trying to find the best lynch. When I went back to build his case, it just wasn't happening. Things I thought were scummy simply no longer seemed scummy. And I even mentioned that he didn't look that bad once I reread him. If I was really trying to push a VE lynch, I wouldn't have just said "there is a case to be made on VE". That's not going to pick up any votes, and is hardly even a condemnation, it's just me stating I found some scummy things in VE's filter. Show nested quote +The more I read into radfield, the more I see the delayed promises for contribution and the careful steps to see which lynch is safe. I admit I wasn't contributing for a time, but really we're talking about a chunk of time from end of D1-mid D2. Since then and before then I have been doing my best to contribute. Also, there were no careful steps to find a safe lynch. I didn't really like the MZ lynch, but couldn't see a better option and didn't want to lynch Palmar. Day 2 I was quite happy with a Hesmyrr lynch, as he was my top scum read. Anyways I'll weigh in on the lynch in the morning. Haven't read that case yet Gonzaw.
The point was, when you posted that it was obvious that VE wasnt going to get lynched. From a scum perspective that would be a really easy way to swap off him after realizing it wasnt going to happen.
I am completely fine lynching prp if he gives us nothing today. The only contribution he gave upon replacing in was basically him saying don't expect much.
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On June 17 2012 02:21 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 00:49 GreYMisT wrote:On June 16 2012 13:02 Radfield wrote:VE dying pushes more doubt on me. One, Palmars case against me rested on VE being obvious town, which he now most certainly is. Two, me not dying pushes suspicion on me as well, as technically I should be dead. I honestly would have been shocked if I'd been shot last night, and I expected Gonzaw to take a bullet. Thinking about it though, VE was almost universally seen as town, so his death makes sense by virtue of that alone.
What I would like to bring to everyone's attention is how this post happened after it became apparent that the VE lynch wasn't going to work. From my point of view a town player who thought VE was scum would have made a case (something rad actually never did at all). Instead what Rad did was sit back and watched if the VE lynched gained steam, and then covertly swapped off of it.
The more I read into radfield, the more I see the delayed promises for contribution and the careful steps to see which lynch is safe.
Greymist, that is not how things went down. I did not simply put out VE's name and then sit back to see if it picked up steam. I read his filter, saw some things I didn't like, and mentioned that I thought he should be looked at closer. I then went and filtered every other player in the game(except Gonzaw) in an effort to find a good lynch. Read my posts at the end of Day 1. My thought process is clear, and I was trying to find the best lynch. When I went back to build his case, it just wasn't happening. Things I thought were scummy simply no longer seemed scummy. And I even mentioned that he didn't look that bad once I reread him. If I was really trying to push a VE lynch, I wouldn't have just said "there is a case to be made on VE". That's not going to pick up any votes, and is hardly even a condemnation, it's just me stating I found some scummy things in VE's filter. The more I read into radfield, the more I see the delayed promises for contribution and the careful steps to see which lynch is safe. I admit I wasn't contributing for a time, but really we're talking about a chunk of time from end of D1-mid D2. Since then and before then I have been doing my best to contribute. Also, there were no careful steps to find a safe lynch. I didn't really like the MZ lynch, but couldn't see a better option and didn't want to lynch Palmar. Day 2 I was quite happy with a Hesmyrr lynch, as he was my top scum read. Anyways I'll weigh in on the lynch in the morning. Haven't read that case yet Gonzaw. The point was, when you posted that it was obvious that VE wasnt going to get lynched. From a scum perspective that would be a really easy way to swap off him after realizing it wasnt going to happen. I am completely fine lynching prp if he gives us nothing today. The only contribution he gave upon replacing in was basically him saying don't expect much. I'm not quite sure what you mean. I never "swapped off" VE, as I never voted him. I stated that I saw some scummy stuff in his filter, but wanted to look for a different target. Lynching VE day 1 doesn't really make sense because he's normally pretty easy to deduce as town as the game goes on. Also, I feel had I been able to make a strong case(which I didn't find), then there was plenty of time to lynch VE. The real issue is that upon rereading VE's filter, he didn't really look that bad. What do you think of Palmar Greymist?
I think his play this game is highly unusual. I mentioned some things before the flip that I thought weird about him.
It is possible that I have misinterpreted your actions regarding VE. Unless I'm mistaken its LyLo, so I have been reconsidering my vote on you quite a bit so I can be as sure as possible. I like your defense, and upon rereading I have decided not to vote you.
Understand when I reread you, I was looking for weird behavior surrounding VE and MZ. I found some, but i realize that it would have made far more sense for you to keep pushing VE into day 2, as opposed to acting the way you did.
Anyway, You me and Gonzaw appear to be it as far as activity goes. might as well assume we are all town right? ( )
joking aside, I again want to be as sure as possible, so lets get a real disscussion going .
Would you guys really like to lynch palmar over say Chaoser/prp? I feel atm that he has a higher chance of being mafia.
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On June 17 2012 03:18 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2012 03:07 GreYMisT wrote:
Understand when I reread you, I was looking for weird behavior surrounding VE and MZ. I found some, but i realize that it would have made far more sense for you to keep pushing VE into day 2, as opposed to acting the way you did.
Why were you looking for weird behavior around VE and MZ? Do you find that scum act weird towards townies? Not sure I follow that line of reasoning.
I mean behavior that makes sense if that player knows VE and MZ to be confirmed town.
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Fair enough. We still have over 24 hours left in the day right?
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I'd like to hear everyone's 2 people they want to see dead today.
I am personally fine with lynching Prp and now Palmar at this point.
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EPT
