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On June 01 2012 03:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
Let's kill Toad and Kurumi.
Kurumi's meta is troll as town and play serious as scum. Obviously that makes him scum this game.
Toad is playing too carefully to be town. He has elements of his normal self centered-ness but usually he at least calls people out. Instead he seems to be worried he'll get called out for "not caring" like I was, when if he was town he'd probably not go that far.
I don't call out people early on the first 48 hours. I usually imply heavily what I want people to understand to check if people are thinking themselves or at least caring enough to ask questions.
And you find that if you read my posts.
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On June 01 2012 03:36 HiroPro wrote:Key: KWUIR-KMBIV-QPGAY-CZTNK-BZSVT-ERHIS-YFULP-ZUYOK-GOKYP-TLBON-PIDIC-AAFXW Choose Godfather, I did.
Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:The mafia already know the voting results, fyi. On May 29 2012 03:32 kitaman27 wrote:
The game will begin with a 24 hour selection phase. During this phase, the mafia team will select two roles for town. Additionally, the town will privately vote via PM on a single role for the mafia. If there is a tie, a random role from the tied roles will be selected. The selected roles will not be revealed, however the mafia team will be provided with the voting results.
Meh, I guess the encryption wasn't really that useful then. I thought it'd make it so that mafia have to guess on what votes to fake.
Kurumi: So what I get from your Radfield case is that you think he is scum because he tells everyone to pick Roleblocker even though it's a good role for scum? But I don't really follow that; while I think roleblocker is a strong role for mafia also, Radfield's argument was not bad. And I don't see this contradiction that you are talking about.
That's got to be a joke. Godfather? Why?!?! It was clear the decision would be either RB or framer at some point and you chose to pick Godfather and completly wasted your vote?
Someone explained (I think risk?) d0 that the only solution to not screw up as mafia is to pick 1-1-1. 1 guy votes RB, one guy votes framer, one guy picks GF because that way they add 1 to each thing and don't change a thing.
So wtf?
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On June 01 2012 05:03 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:32 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 01 2012 04:02 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 03:59 Zephirdd wrote:On June 01 2012 03:54 HiroPro wrote:
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles. Great, and why didn't you provide these arguments during the day we had to actually choose GF? Why did you just let the framers/roleblockers go and not fight for your argument? Why keep it down and suddenly pop out with this? Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 11:52 HiroPro wrote:
All of the mafia roles are "anti-blue" roles and pretty useless otherwise. Now out of the three mafia roles, roleblocker looks to be the most powerful to me, as it is effective against all of the blue roles (except for innocent child, against which nothing is really good). Yes, the shots get refunded for vig and cop but in a game of this size, if you get roleblocked it's likely you won't even live the next night. For that reason, I think everyone should only vote for either godfather or framer and should not consider roleblocker.
Also, I don't think anyone should share exactly what role they are voting for, as mafia can than pick the blue roles that are worst against that role. So instead, when discussing what role to give mafia, I think everyone should just say the role that they don't want people to vote for (as it's too strong), still leaving open the possibility of two roles that they might choose between. A lot of mafia's power in this setup comes from them being able to pick roles for town that are easily countered by the role they receive. If they don't know exactly what role they are getting, they can't do this. I'm not buying this, Hiro. It was pretty clear from the thread that it was a discussion between framer and roleblocker. If you thought it was better to give mafia the framer, instead of roleblocker, why would you vote for the 3rd option? Also, why did/what made you change your mind about about your vote partway through D0? Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:39 Toadesstern wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 01 2012 03:36 HiroPro wrote:Key: KWUIR-KMBIV-QPGAY-CZTNK-BZSVT-ERHIS-YFULP-ZUYOK-GOKYP-TLBON-PIDIC-AAFXW Choose Godfather, I did.
Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:The mafia already know the voting results, fyi. On May 29 2012 03:32 kitaman27 wrote:
The game will begin with a 24 hour selection phase. During this phase, the mafia team will select two roles for town. Additionally, the town will privately vote via PM on a single role for the mafia. If there is a tie, a random role from the tied roles will be selected. The selected roles will not be revealed, however the mafia team will be provided with the voting results.
Meh, I guess the encryption wasn't really that useful then. I thought it'd make it so that mafia have to guess on what votes to fake.
Kurumi: So what I get from your Radfield case is that you think he is scum because he tells everyone to pick Roleblocker even though it's a good role for scum? But I don't really follow that; while I think roleblocker is a strong role for mafia also, Radfield's argument was not bad. And I don't see this contradiction that you are talking about. That's got to be a joke. Godfather? Why?!?! It was clear the decision would be either RB or framer at some point and you chose to pick Godfather and completly wasted your vote? Someone explained (I think risk?) d0 that the only solution to not screw up as mafia is to pick 1-1-1. 1 guy votes RB, one guy votes framer, one guy picks GF because that way they add 1 to each thing and don't change a thing. So wtf? Maybe it was clear to you that the votes would only be between Framer and Roleblocker. It wasn't to me; not when the majority of people had not said what they were going to vote for. After Radfield made his argument on why Roleblocker was the best choice, I voted for roleblocker as I felt that Radfield made a good point on town gaining an advantage from knowing exactly what role mafia would get. I realized a little later though, that mafia would derive the exact same benefit if I followed Radfield's plan, so I changed my vote to the role that was worst for mafia in my opinion (godfather).
Well you've got to agree that it's looking weird that you are apparently the only one who voted GF when we talked about how 1-1-1 is the only way for mafia to not screw up and all the talk d0 was either about RB > framer or about framer > RB.
Why didn't you talk about this? This is essentially the same thing I was talking about in PYP when talking with risk.
I have no problem with people telling me they think otherwise and that we should change a "plan" but I do have a problem with people ninja-voting without telling us screwing us over.
If what you said is reasonable (and I don't think it is) you should have tried to explain to us why what you said is reasonable. Yet here you stand, voting GF and it's apparently not important enough to you what role mafia gets because you haven't told us so and you still voted GF and not, like everyone else either RB or framer. That's really odd.
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sooooo, back to inactivity?
I wanted to play this more like C9++ #2 again, I already have a game where I'm all over the place...
If hiro is not answering the question goes to everyone else: What do you think about the GF vote?
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I guess that means
##vote HiroPro
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I'd like to lynch into hiro or wbg at this point.
Hiro is basicly a claimed mafia who says "well yeah, but would a mafia claim mafia?" which just doesn't work for me anymore since PYP.
WBG is just plain ridiculous right now and he's way better as town than what we see here. Add that to what I mentioned earlier about him (not knowing the d0 cycle was only 24 hours, not posting) and I feel like wbg would be the best vet to lynch into if I can convince you to lynch into a vet :p
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On June 01 2012 23:45 prplhz wrote:
Oh yea I totally forgot.
I apparently didn't get my vote counted 'cause I screwed up and only sent it to Bluelightz and not to kitaman27.
Just so you know it.
so with you're vote it was 5-5, with Navillus vote it was 6-5 in favor of RB and without your vote (because invalid) it is now 5-5 again?
What is Ties are broken using standard tie-breaking procedures. ?
Whoever got "majority" first? As in if the last PM kita receives was a RB vote it's framer and if the last PM kita receives was framer it is RB for mafia?
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gosh 
On the hiro matter, because prphlz vote does matter:
Hiro looks a lot better on the first look imo but here's the thing. Hiro answered us "Would I really claim I voted GF when I am mafia as the only one?" and that gave me a thought. Now this prphlz business is somewhat important here.
On the first look it seems like hiro looks way better because prphlz frankly got in here telling us "sup guyses, haven't voted" which is equal to the 1-1-1 thing I mentioned earlier. So hiro looks better because prphlz looks equally bad and yet the same question comes up: Would Prphlz get in here like that as mafia? I doubt it but again, I already said after PYP I'm not going to use that logic anymore lol.
But here's the important thing that made me reconsider the hiro part: He said something along the lines of "would I really claim GF as mafia?". Now here's the OP
The selected roles will not be revealed, however the mafia team will be provided with the voting results.
I HIGHLY doubt the voting result would be something like "sup guys, You've got RB" or "sup guys, you've got framer" because mafia could figure that out themselves just fine the moment one of them gets to be RB or framer so I'd say they get the real voting results.
Let's assume prphlz is telling the truth for a second. If that's the case mafia knew there was one guy who has not voted because that's simple math. If that's the case it's perfectly reasonable to just claim GF because there's someone out there who's looking equally bad or even worse.
Fancy conclusion: I'd say hiro knows exactly what he's doing and is hoping that the other guy looks worse or at least equally bad while still having the benefits of the 1-1-1 thing. Remember Hiro has not made it clear what he wanted to vote and while that may have benefits it makes the perfect excuse for this scenario we're in right now.
I'd say we have found mafia in hiro.
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On June 02 2012 02:15 talismania wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 00:19 Toadesstern wrote:gosh On the hiro matter, because prphlz vote does matter:Hiro looks a lot better on the first look imo but here's the thing. Hiro answered us "Would I really claim I voted GF when I am mafia as the only one?" and that gave me a thought. Now this prphlz business is somewhat important here. On the first look it seems like hiro looks way better because prphlz frankly got in here telling us "sup guyses, haven't voted" which is equal to the 1-1-1 thing I mentioned earlier. So hiro looks better because prphlz looks equally bad and yet the same question comes up: Would Prphlz get in here like that as mafia? I doubt it but again, I already said after PYP I'm not going to use that logic anymore lol. But here's the important thing that made me reconsider the hiro part: He said something along the lines of "would I really claim GF as mafia?". Now here's the OP The selected roles will not be revealed, however the mafia team will be provided with the voting results. I HIGHLY doubt the voting result would be something like "sup guys, You've got RB" or "sup guys, you've got framer" because mafia could figure that out themselves just fine the moment one of them gets to be RB or framer so I'd say they get the real voting results. Let's assume prphlz is telling the truth for a second. If that's the case mafia knew there was one guy who has not voted because that's simple math. If that's the case it's perfectly reasonable to just claim GF because there's someone out there who's looking equally bad or even worse. Fancy conclusion: I'd say hiro knows exactly what he's doing and is hoping that the other guy looks worse or at least equally bad while still having the benefits of the 1-1-1 thing. Remember Hiro has not made it clear what he wanted to vote and while that may have benefits it makes the perfect excuse for this scenario we're in right now. I'd say we have found mafia in hiro. This hurts my head - first, Does mafia getting the voting results mean that they got the results of who everyone voted for? Just the totals? Just the winner?Second, if they did get full results, how could that have any bearing on hiro's play? He voted GF before the deadline no matter what, therefore he would have to explain it no matter what. How does he modify that knowing that prp didn't vote? I think there are less convoluted reasons to vote Hiro that people have already raised, if you're going to vote Hiro. (On a sidenote toad I think I owe you an apology because it looks like you were right about the difficulty in getting to a majority day one.) ___________________ @Radfield Of course I would also vote Zephirdd (and probably will unless we need a 6th/7th vote somewhere else - avoiding no lynch is the top priority) - it's not just that he's been vacillating, it's that it feels like he's been doing it to see if anyone he pushes will get momentum in the town. He's playing it pretty out in the open as well (owning up to it with his last "I change my mind too much" post) which is brazen but probably the correct play if he's scum. I'm curious about how you're thinking about the game as a whole - you've also been throwing some names out as though to see what sticks (sloosh, sbrubbles, zephirdd) but I haven't seen anything like the analysis you did to parse apart Blazinghand and tunkeg in I'm a cop you Idiot. For instance, is your consideration of voting zephirdd based on what hiro said, what I said, what you thought yourself, etc?
2 things:
1):
As mentioned, I take it mafia gets more just the winner because they get that automatically the moment they realize someone is a RB or a framer (or GF for that matter), therefore there would be no need to mention something like "mafia get the results afterwards" in the OP. But yeah, guess it's a good idea to just ask lol.
2):
I am saying hiro is mafia who never voted and said he voted GF once he knew there's someone else who voted not-GF / not-RB as well. But yeah you're right that's a huge brainfart, he announced the vote before deadline so that can't be the motivation for voting GF
I'd however still say there's a mafia between hiro and prphlz and imo it's way more likely that guy is hiro.
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On June 01 2012 22:02 risk.nuke wrote:
I am pleased with radfield and I no longer want to make radpie.
On the other hand I believe we could vastly benefit from shortening hiro by a head, turning sloosh into slush and murdering zepphird. On June 02 2012 01:10 Radfield wrote:
What do people think about sbrubbles right now? I'd like to look more into him when I have time, as his most recent post is tickling my scum senses.
I'm considering voting zephirdd though. Anyone else willing to vote Z-man? On June 02 2012 03:04 prplhz wrote:
I'm okay with lynching Sbrubbles.
wherebugsgo apparently isn't going anywhere. Both him, Navilus, and especially risk.nuke need to post more.
Wtf are those statements I bolded? What are people supposed to answer to that?
Seriously I don't like people asking "who's willing to lynch X" without giving the slightest hint why they think that way. Sounds like people testing water temperatur with their toes to me and those questions / statements are utterly useless without at least a hint of why you think that way.
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On June 02 2012 05:42 prplhz wrote:
Read his town games, read his day0 play this game, first time scum mostly try not to stick out and he absolutely knows how to do this better than this. He is sticking out very much with his two measly posts and I very much doubt any scum would think that this would ever be enough not to get lynched. I expect him to get back and tell us why he's been playing so horribly on day1 but I don't think that he's scum right now.
I'm not saying he's new, I'm saying he's first time scum.
?!?!?
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1. Toad says hiro votin GF is incredible scummy
2. Rad posts:
On June 01 2012 05:08 Radfield wrote:
[...]
Did we actually just catch scum by hiropro voting godfather?? Time to filter!!
3. ...
4. Nothing?
What was your result of filterting him? That statement I quoted sounds really strong and yet I'm the only one voting hiro when noone has disagreed with it except for hiro?
Is there a reason for that?
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Any chance hiros lynch is going to happen? That guy is not playing at all and I still think the GF vote is as scummy as you can get.
That being said Zephird isn't really as much as an option for me... Hiro voted Zephird and I doubt they're bussing on d1 lol
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On June 02 2012 06:59 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 06:39 Toadesstern wrote:
Any chance hiros lynch is going to happen? That guy is not playing at all and I still think the GF vote is as scummy as you can get.
That being said Zephird isn't really as much as an option for me... Hiro voted Zephird and I doubt they're bussing on d1 lol Come on now Toad... you know better than that. You CANNOT draw connections between players like that when their alignments are unknown. That's actually a bit concerning.
Of course I can draw connections like that. And once they flip I check and see if they were right or wrong and change them accordingly.
That's how I end up with those
Either VE or Rad is 100% mafia
Either Ace or Marv is probably mafia
things like in C9++ #2 :p
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Ok screw this, hiro is not going to happen... need to think and read and vice versa
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On June 02 2012 07:50 talismania wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 07:41 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok screw this, hiro is not going to happen... need to think and read and vice versa Doesn't he have like 4-5 votes? Unless I'm really reading the rules wrong, majority right now is 6 (Number of players divided by two rounded up) with a supermajority of 7 required to avoid any complications from the secret vote if zephirdd also hits 5.
As far as I can see he has 3 votes and the majority is 8, isn't it?
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On June 02 2012 07:56 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 07:50 talismania wrote:On June 02 2012 07:41 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok screw this, hiro is not going to happen... need to think and read and vice versa Doesn't he have like 4-5 votes? Unless I'm really reading the rules wrong, majority right now is 6 (Number of players divided by two rounded up) with a supermajority of 7 required to avoid any complications from the secret vote if zephirdd also hits 5. As far as I can see he has 3 votes and the majority is 8, isn't it?
brainfart. Majority should be either 6 or 7 right? According to the op it's #/2 rounded up but that's what greymists OP in his game says at well and in reality it's rounded down+1 lol.
Is the Majority really (# of players / 2 ) rounded up? That would be 6 and usually it's ((# of players / 2) rounded down +1)
Not that it makes a difference right now.
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Ok we need to get people in here. It's 1 am for me and I don't know how long I'll be awake.
A zephird lynch still looks awful for me. Hiros voting him, risk is voting him, navillus is voting him. There's bound to be a mafia within those 3 and Kurumi and talis are nulls for me. That's really not as convincing as people make it look and we have 3 hours left...
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Ok people I'm willing to lynch in general right now: Hiro, Prplhz, Navillus
Hiro for the GF because I see no reason for a townie to vote GF when it was obvious it's either RB or framer. Yeah he said it wasn't obvious to him but it apperently was obvious to 11 other people..
Prplhz for his weird Navillus defense either way. The only thing that makes prplhz look good is him being so bold about the failure to vote.
Navillus is more of a plan B. He looks really bad but I have never played with him before and I really like lynching people I can judge because I played with them a lot., which is the reason I'd rather lynch into hiro or prplhz. Prplhz is not going to happen, hiro has a couple of votes but people apparently disagree with the GF thing and think there is a reason to vote GF for town...
So it probably comes down to hiro or Navillus
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EPT
