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Bang Bang Mafia 2 - Page 4

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gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 18:25 GMT
#460
We could have payl shoot me as well....but most likely he won't even show up at all and we'll end up NLing.
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 18:28 GMT
#462
@rastaban:

On June 12 2012 13:38 rastaban wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2012 13:36 wherebugsgo wrote:
If we don't have a target for gonzaw to shoot by, say, the 20 hour mark into the day, I say we should shoot gonzaw. I volunteer to be that person.

If anyone shoots before that time I say we kill them tomorrow.


I support this!



On June 12 2012 22:40 rastaban wrote:
The following People need to post, they are very inactive, and if they have said anything it is only a few one liners.
risk.nuke
Kenpachi
payl

gonzaw I don't see him for mafia, but I don't have a problem with making him shoot someone else if it will lessen the distracting discussion on him. So far the biggest arguments against him have been that he supported ROL and that he claimed He hadn't seen a Mafia fake a miller claim before. To me he doesn't seem scum at all, and most of the case is hinged on defending ROL, If ROL is really a miller then all the discussion seems moot.

ROL Controversy, We still have no other Millers claiming, and until we get some other contenders I am very inclined to believe ROL. There should have been 2 hits last night (mafia & SK), and only 1 went down. Unless someone else claims to have been protected I see no reason to disbelieve this. I lean towards an SK 1 shot power as if it is reuseable it would be way over powered, I think we keep an eye on him and see how things progress. If the Mafia tried to shoot him, and an SK tried to remove the gun, then I think we should hold off on killing him for a bit since there must be a reason so many people tried to hit him last night. Again if more Millers come forward then I agree we should re-evaluate the claim but for now I think his play seems town and we should hold off a final judgment for him.

Meapak_Ziphh, your filter looked really bad last night tons of filler and no posts contributing to discussion, but you seem to be posting more like your normal self today. Mind explaining what was going on?


On June 13 2012 02:06 rastaban wrote:
I say we have Gonzaw shoot payl. We find out if Gonzow has a gun and if he does, we off the single post Smurf. I have a feeling at least one if not more of the mafia are in the lurking crowd intentionally or not and it is causing confusion in the Mafia ranks.

If gonzaw won't fire lets let chaoser kill him.


What is exactly your stance on me?

First you want me to shoot or have wbg shoot me.
However then you say I'm most likely town.

Yet now all of a sudden you want chaoser to shoot me?

Wtf man?
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 18:28 GMT
#463
On June 13 2012 03:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I don't want to have anyone shoot until RoL comes in and proves he's not lying. He can shoot Gonzaw if he likes. Also, Gonzaw, shoot again with the right formatting.


I already did read the thread
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 18:31 GMT
#464
Rastaban would be a good choice to shoot me as well.

He flip-flops on his read on me, or just head-on contradicts himself by saying I'm town but he wants someone else to shoot me.

Oh yeah, he wants someone else to shoot me (first wbg, then chaoser). He never volunteers himself to shoot.


Anyways, if all of you guys think claiming is better then I will, but I want to avoid VE-like scenarios this game.
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 18:45 GMT
#469
On June 13 2012 03:38 rastaban wrote:

@gonzaw But the whole point is that you can't shoot. I thought you could shoot, so now that you can't and you have this many accusations on you it is time to kill you. Claim your role if you are town.


I don't want my role to create more chaos.

If I'm being shot (someone puts ##Kill: gonzaw in the thread), then I'll claim my role.
But until then it will only serve to distract people (they'll start thinking "Oh what if his claim is real? Oh what if we let him live and bla bla bla?").

In the off-chance I survive this (not likely), then scum won't know my role either.



rastaban, if it came down to it, would you shoot me?
You say "so now that you can't and you have this many accusations on you it is time to kill you...."

So, it is time to kill me because I have accusations against me...but not because you think I'm scum?
Also, me having a gun or not had nothing to do with your "town" read on me.
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 19:02 GMT
#473
On June 13 2012 03:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
gonzaw why did you act as if you had a gun N0 when chaoser first introduced the notion that you should shoot today? I know you never explicitly said one way or the other, but you never even opposed the idea of you shooting.


On June 13 2012 03:15 gonzaw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 01:07 chaoser wrote:
On June 13 2012 00:58 marvellosity wrote:
But how can you distinguish between him being a blue who can't shoot and a regular goon? You cannot. The only way you can tell is by analysing him in the first place, and by doing that we come to the decision he's scum.

So just shoot him. See what I'm saying?


Given his posting, he's definitely not a blue since he keeps saying "I'll shoot if everyone wants me to, etc. etc.". He's basically pushing the issue off while trying to get town to focus on the SK (by talking about if RoL is it or WBG is it). If town bites on the SK bit and shoots one of them then day ends and he gets to leave another day, hopefully to disappear from the forefronts of our thoughts.


I didn't want to out myself as blue so soon just because 1 guy (you) was buggering me about shooting.


What do you guys think of rastaban?

@Wiggles: I think rastaban was talking about me and not RoL, but I'm not really sure
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 19:08 GMT
#478
On June 13 2012 04:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 04:02 gonzaw wrote:
On June 13 2012 03:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
gonzaw why did you act as if you had a gun N0 when chaoser first introduced the notion that you should shoot today? I know you never explicitly said one way or the other, but you never even opposed the idea of you shooting.


On June 13 2012 03:15 gonzaw wrote:
On June 13 2012 01:07 chaoser wrote:
On June 13 2012 00:58 marvellosity wrote:
But how can you distinguish between him being a blue who can't shoot and a regular goon? You cannot. The only way you can tell is by analysing him in the first place, and by doing that we come to the decision he's scum.

So just shoot him. See what I'm saying?


Given his posting, he's definitely not a blue since he keeps saying "I'll shoot if everyone wants me to, etc. etc.". He's basically pushing the issue off while trying to get town to focus on the SK (by talking about if RoL is it or WBG is it). If town bites on the SK bit and shoots one of them then day ends and he gets to leave another day, hopefully to disappear from the forefronts of our thoughts.


I didn't want to out myself as blue so soon just because 1 guy (you) was buggering me about shooting.


What do you guys think of rastaban?

@Wiggles: I think rastaban was talking about me and not RoL, but I'm not really sure


But you're the guy who was pushing the idea of all guns outting N0, thereby outting all blues. You were the one saying this should be an analysis game. This is a blatant contradiction in your philosophies.


When did I say that? I said that on D1 not N0

On June 13 2012 04:03 rastaban wrote:
Sorry gonzaw I won't tell you if I have a gun or not, Scum is already trying to snipe our VEs as it is, you will just have to wait and see.



If everybody says that when we try and force them to shoot me...then nobody would shoot me at all (that would be nice, but we wouldn't find any scum with it).


You are still avoiding the issue: Why does the fact that I don't have a gun make you think I'm scum, when your town read on me never hinged on the fact that I had a gun?
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 19:11 GMT
#486
On June 13 2012 04:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
I wouldn't mind supersoft shooting gonzaw.

I don't want to put it on a lurker who may or may not come back, I'd rather just shoot into those guys if we want to get a read on them.


supersoft already made it apparent he wanted to shoot me. It's very likely he has a gun (whether VT or GF/SK).
Same as wbg
Unless you say that they are goons and this is a reverse-psychology-WIFOMy plan of theirs to appear they have a gun so we assume they do and they never shoot...they do have a gun.


Any of those lurkers shooting me is alright, although I'd prefer rastaban doing it (or Zentor in any case).


You guys are still fucking ignoring me: What do you think of rastaban?
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 19:12 GMT
#487
Hmm, I wouldn't mind Toad shooting me either now that I think of it
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 19:28 GMT
#499
On June 13 2012 04:14 wherebugsgo wrote:
hahahaha

My favorite people:
marvellosity
chaoser

illiterate fools:
Cephiro
some others I can't be arsed to find again

scum:
gonzaw
zentor
kitaman
some lurking asshole #1
some lurking asshole #2

If RoL shows up and contributes something decently he's probably town. His posting style has not been scummy to me, but the fact that all he did was use the misformatted post and then run away during a 24 hour day is rather suspicious. As there is no counter miller claim I find it unlikely he is scum, but it's possible we don't even have a miller. We need more time for RoL to post to actually know his alignment.


For once I agree with you (replace me with rastaban from that list).

I'm not that sure of marv, but he's being confident and perhaps too aggressive to be scum. Still, keep an eye on him.

Keep an eye on Cephiro as well, I think he would be more active and contribute more if he was town.


On June 13 2012 00:23 rastaban wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2012 23:40 MrZentor wrote:
If you really want to shoot me or something at least wait 24 hours into D1 so you don't waste the whole day and so we can put some sense into you.

His insistence on waiting until most of the day passes before shooting.

I personally don't find people's opinion on certain plans (or policy lynches, etc) alignment telling at all. So no matter how much someone talks and talks about plans, I can't analyze their alignment based on their behaviour, if everybody else is discussing plans as well.


This seems like the genuine thing a mafia wouldn't say.

+ Show Spoiler +
What if all of us claim if we have a gun to shoot or not?

Like said before, most blue roles are not that strong (the good ones don't know their sanity); but the VT/Miller roles are the strongest since they control the "lynch", and are our only way to win this game (other than a random vigilante out there).

I think they did it like this:

1)Everybody claims if they have a gun or not
2)The people that claimed they have a gun, take turns each day to shoot the most scummy one from the pool of the guys that don't have a gun
Here we can use that "random thingy" site Palmar made for iGrok's game (if someone's good enough to copy the script and shit, maybe make it public):
Each day we make a list of all the people that claimed they have a gun, and randomize it. That way we randomly choose who to shoot from that list.
That way mafia can't try to fake-claim that they have a gun and manipulate their way to never shoot at all, because the process of choosing who to shoot is random so if it's their turn to shoot they can't get away with it (this will disencourage scum fake-claiming they have a gun).

This is the beauty from the plan:
Yes, all the VTs/Millers will be outed for SK/scum, and so will the blues....
...however the blues will be mostly intact and survive the whole game.

Why? Because in the pool of blues most of the scum (goon and RBers, etc) lurk. If they shoot blues at night, that pool is reduced so they have more chances of being shot at day.
Not only that, but because of what I said earlier they'll most likely shoot VTs (check that post I made).

So blues are free to make their actions at night (not all of them can be RBed, plus they shouldn't claim their roles either) to help us with what we can, while we systematically kill those scum in their group.

Once we kill all scum in the "blue" group (3 of them right?), we are set, leave the rest of those blues alone and take a look at the VT/Miller claims to get the GF and the SK.

Since only non-gunners will get shot at day, and only gunners will get shot at night by scum, the blues in the non-gunners group can use:
1)Their medic saves on the gunners
2)Their watcher/tracker/cop checks on the gunners

1)Because those are the only ones getting shot at night, so they have a greater chance to save them
2)Because once all the scum from the non-gunners are killed, we need to find the SK/GF. If blues check those players, then it's more likely they can find the SK/GF for us so we have it easier later.


That was the way it would work in the 1st game.
Now that I think about it the "SK or scum can steal guns at night" thing if RoL says the truth can change it a little bit

What do you guys think? Any way to improve it if it's worth it? Or is it unworthy?


This is an excellent plan, which I believe would give town a great chance of winning; I doubt a mafia would suggest it.




Also, something I found along the way.


Pretty sure

1) We'll run out of things to say or just go in circles
2) Ace will probably put a limit on like 48 hours and then we just "no shot" and move straight to night
3) Someone will probably get trigger happy and shoot anyway.

I want gonzaw to shoot. We already had 24 hours of discussion since night 0 happened, we've got our suspicions. Let's go gonzaw, chop chop.


Chaoser wanted Gonzaw to shoot at dawn, effectively killing 24 hours of discussion.

That's exactly what scum would want to happen.


Regarding the plan of guns and not guns claiming, don't you think even the mafia without guns will claim they have guns (maybe 1 won't) so we just end up shooting all our blues for a few days? We don't know how many blues town has so we won't even know if mafia is the group. I don't see how that plan helps anything it isn't like the goons are going to admit they have no guns. We end up have some people claiming to have guns, who don't have guns, but how do we decide who it is? We are back to square 1 but now they know which townies have guns and who doesn't so they can shoot acordingly. We just give them even more information while we are just as confused as before.

Unless I am missing something this is a very bad plan, plus we should worry less about plans and more about about posts. I agree Chaoser trying to push the shot so fast was very very bad. Chaoser, why did you want to stifle so much discussion?


Just because I think this plan is good for town, I'll respond to this:

If mafia without guns claim they have guns....then at some point they'll have to prove they have by shooting.

If we make the process of determining who shoots random (with Palmar's site or something similar), then they won't be able to control AT ALL when they'll shoot.
If they claim they have a gun, they may be chosen to shoot the next day and they'll fuck up.

Not only that, but if we have like 18 gun claims and only 2 non-gun claims, we'll know something is wrong and that those 2 that claimed non-gun are most likely real blues.

Of course if there's scummy people that claim they have a gun we could force them to shoot (by voting or something).

It was followed on Bang Bang Mafia 1 (although town lost that game )

Like I said the problem I'd find is with the "gun-stealing" mechanic (if RoL tells the truth)...but that one is going to be around no matter what, and nobody even seemed to answer me of the implications of it (can't improve a plan if nobody is there to criticize it nor approve it).


If it comes down to me (I'm sure everybody will ignore me); this should be the order of people shooting me:
  • rastaban
  • Zentor
  • payl
  • kitaman
  • risknuke
  • Kenpachi
  • talismania
  • Cephiro


As in, the 1st one from that list shoots me, if he can't the 2nd one shoots, etc.


Right now I'm leaving home, but I'll be back in a couple of hours (2 at most). So if you want me to claim or something please don't shoot until then.

If someone shoots until then please held them accountable for it.

If I don't come back in 3 or 4 hours or sorts (if you think I'm "disappearing so I damp discussion" or some shit) then yes shoot me then but that won't happen unless I'm kidnapped or something
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 19:30 GMT
#500
On June 13 2012 04:26 supersoft wrote:
OKAY WAIT:

Gonzaw I have this figured out. I want you to claim now. I have a rough idea what i want you to claim. If you fail you're guaranteed dead. Go for it. If you're town claim.


If what I think you think is true, then yes I claim that (you know what I mean)


I'm leaving now though (if I have to claim I'll claim when I come back).
REally, I don't have time I realy have to be going :/
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 19:33 GMT
#503
324

That's what I'll say for now

(Sorry dude, I'm in a real hurry and I don't want to make a mistake or something by claiming in a rush)
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 21:47 GMT
#569
Hi I'm back

Hopefully I wasn't shot yet
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 22:08 GMT
#573
On June 13 2012 04:38 Toadesstern wrote:
you remember what you said about the shitstorm? what you're doing is way more shitstormy than any claim could ever be. Just tell us or don't but don't do such a middle thing that makes everyone wonder what it might be...


Well apparently it is.
*sigh* I just wanted people to ignore the "what's your role" thing from my claim, but I guess that's not possible.




Okay then, I'll claim.

I am a Macho Cop with Balls of Steel

Macho: All protections fail on me (partly why I told medics to not protect blues)
Cop: Self-explained
Balls of Steel: Ace will make some sweet flavour once I die.



Last night I checked supersoft, got Innocent

I breadcrumbed it here:

On Post #324 of this game gonzaw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2012 05:20 supersoft wrote:
On June 12 2012 04:55 FreelanceSatan wrote:
On June 12 2012 04:37 chaoser wrote:
Isn't it Night 0? As in mafia get to do night kills if they want to? why did RoL claim miller already...


yeah i didnt even think about that..looks like he jumped the gun a bit there.. what are the chances the mafia would want to shoot him instead of shooting for blues tho?


because we probably got a LOT of blues. + In an optimal scenario, we really could benefit from a Millermassclaim D1 NOT N1....


Great supersoft, do you have anything to say about RoL's claim?
Ehm, you can also chime in with this talk about me getting shot or shooting today.

Ehh I still don't get why a lot of people want me dead now (rastaban seemed to jump on the wagon as well), but unless something definitive is brought I'll just ignore it for now.
Not what I'd like for D1, but it brings discussion and forces people to take stances, so it's good.



My reasoning was this:
I can't be Naive, therefore if I get a green check on someone that flips town, my sanity is confirmed to be Sane

I thought scum would try to shoot supersoft last night, so I checked him hoping to get a green check if he died (thus confirm me as Sane if I was).

I thought about checking RoL, and I thought he'd get shot by scum, but me checking him wouldn't confirm my santity like I wanted.

If I checked RoL, he came back Guilty and he died and flipped Miller, I wouldn't know if I was Sane or Paranoid.
If I got an Innocent check I'd be confirmed Insane though, but since it's more likely I'm Sane (all cops are more likely to be Sane in these kind of setups) I knew I'd most likely get a guilty check out of him, which is why I tried to check someone else most likely to get shot.

Didn't think Coag would get shot though :/
I guess I should have seen it coming after he claimed he had a gun, but I didn't think a freaking smurf would get shot n0.


Also, since it's more likely I'm Sane, it's more likely supersoft is actual town (specially considering he was so eager to shoot me...something kind of hard to fake if he was goon since he has to take a shot sometime in the future).
Of course he could be SK/GF, but again it's less likely (don't take this as absolute truth though).



So, apparently payl won't shoot me.
It's okay though

rastaban, would you kindly take a shot on me?
If I die and you didn't shoot me I give permission to town to hunt your ass as soon as possible
So if people agree, please let rastaban take the shot
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 22:10 GMT
#575
On June 13 2012 07:10 supersoft wrote:
don't buy it. wbg, VE what do we do?


Let rastaban shoot me


Seriously how is this so hard?
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 22:12 GMT
#577
I think he's scum.
I'll make a more "compact" case in a few minutes, but just check my filter and check the reasons why I'm suspicious of him.
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 22:24 GMT
#585
On June 13 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why, by your estimation, was supersoft someone you "thought would get shot overnight" gonzaw?


I saw him play on LV (I think?) and he seemed pretty good as town, and I think scum would have known that.
He's also a "vet", making him an obvious shot N0.

I was thinking to check these:
-supersoft
-wbg
-Toad
-VE
-Meapak

I was trouble thinking about supersoft or wbg...but after wbg started to troll and play retardedly I didn't want to risk wbg actually being scum and not getting shot at night so I choose supersoft.

On June 13 2012 07:15 Toadesstern wrote:
What about shooting payle instead of gonzaw?
If he's truely a DT I can live with him being alive and mafia can't because they don't want him to get more checks because the moment we see his flip we know wether or not we can trust him.
If he's mafia and survives n1 we shoot him tomorrow?


This is the shitstorm I was talking about

*cue everybody shitting on each other whether they let me live only because of my claim or not*

Oh, I'm also getting RBed tonight.

Anyways, case on rastaban coming up...
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 22:26 GMT
#588
On June 13 2012 07:23 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2012 07:20 rastaban wrote:
On June 13 2012 07:15 Toadesstern wrote:
What about shooting payle instead of gonzaw?
If he's truely a DT I can live with him being alive and mafia can't because they don't want him to get more checks because the moment we see his flip we know wether or not we can trust him.
If he's mafia and survives n1 we shoot him tomorrow?

I like this plan a lot, and with him being macho there isn't even WIFOM on if he is protected. I am guessing they won't hit him either way, but it gives us another check the moment he flips tomorrow.

exactly. Noone protects him and he either dies or he doesn't,
1.If he does we get another check that may or may not be bullshit but we kill him the next day and know wether or not we can trust his checks.

2.What's the reasoning for knowing you can't be naive gonzaw?
[/red]

1. I'll get RBed

2. It's in the OP and I asked Ace for confirmation.
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 22:28 GMT
#593
On June 13 2012 07:26 marvellosity wrote:
Like at the end of N0, did any of you think scum might shoot supersoft?


He was being retarded on purpose most likely. Considering his status I don't see why he couldn't have been shot, specially after his whole "If I was VT I'd like that....am I VT? Maybe I am maybe I'm not" thing that to me basically seemed him taunting scum to shoot him.
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
June 12 2012 22:28 GMT
#594
On June 13 2012 07:27 Toadesstern wrote:
Actually wait about the RB. We started with n0. Did anyone claim being rb'ed ?


wherebugsgo claimed RBed
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